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@topic:
jfyi... translation might not be 100% accurate ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowCrash
@level-zones:
In my opinion an easy fix would be to simply copy the pattern used for city-zones... maybe without rewards for killing enemies - but only punishment for allied / neutral kills. Maybe SnowCrash could consider such a change? :)
I don't see why there can't be no penalties for killing an enemy in a hunting zone, dunno about rewards (faction may consider you to be doing somethign a bit lame for them to give you something).
As to changes to CM without a wholesale rework of SL/Symp, I am concerned. It has to be done perfectly or CM will go nowhere or turn into a ganksters paradise.
Imo a CA killing a fellow Ca or a TT in the plaza1 sewer should receive similar penalties to killing the victim in plaza1 itself... atm a CA would get the same punishment for killing a TG down there - and thats what needs to be changed imo. hostile = no punishment!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
I like that idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by aKe`cj
You would need different rules for the caves out in the wastes tho.
you don't HAVE to follow him. Just regard it as if he zoned into a safezone. No kill = no penalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wu
yes I have to, or else he will just heal up and continue what he was doing. its ridiculous that I can't kill an enemy of the dome inside the dome without punishment. he surely isnt there to level in our sidestreets :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
My concerin exactly DJ, If KK turn CM into a bloody fetish faction i will go ape on their asses!
Zheo, we were CM at one point. We were probably the only mercs that had jobs and we made a total of 6.5 mil off contract killings.
I'd like to see you try that.
Apparently it ain't griefplay. Is there any particular reason you came to this conclusion KK?
With the soullight rules as they are now, it's pretty easy to use that tactic to force someone out of play for a fair few hours. Sometimes ( depending on the character they play, not everyone has stealth) a day.
How in the world can this not be counted as griefplay? By being a cunt, and carrying out those actions leading to a red SL markup on whoever was unlucky enough to hit you, you're denying them time in neocron, that they pay for.
A move like this merely reinforces the general opinion that PvP is not viable. There are plenty of other places that this shitty tactic can ( and has) been used, and will continue to be employed.
Can someone please explain the reasoning behind the decision? It seems a bit of a faux par,
Thread merged. There are changes in test that hopefully should make this a moot issue in the next patch.
N
There are plenty of places where this shitty tactic can not be employed .. unfortunately most of these places do feature more than 15m² fight-area near a syncline and therefore require skill or even teamplay with the risk (onoz.. did I say RISK in pvp 8| ) of needing a poker. Life sucks. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spermy
No eta though then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidhogg
And Bugs, I what I said, I said because if fetish where CM, and just killed for fun, and then the whole of CM was full of people like that, then it would give the faction a large change from being Neutral to being red, you may have noticed the number of people that attack LPN already, well we didn't start any of those fights, and at the beginning we gave a great load of space for anyone who did attack us.
I see fetish as a "thug clan" (not that theres anything wrong with what you do) It's just the role play you do, which i like to be honest, fetish makes a great BD clan, but I dont think it'd be so good at city mercs. (Selling drugs and beating up ol ladies for protection money) isn't realy a CM thing hehe
Good to hear. The statement I read seemed to be lacking in that detail - fingers crossed it does the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidhogg
1) PvP is PvP. Anywhere. You die, you drop a belt, you lose an item, you get pokes. Big deal. Those who can't accept that should keep the LE in ( which a quick browse through many of my posts on that issue will show.)Quote:
Originally Posted by aKe`cj
2) There are indeed plenty of places you Cannot employ this tactic, They are called safezones. There are others yes, but as long as this tactic is viable that point is irrelevant. It's possible to disrupt others ( paid) ingame time. Thats the only thing that should matter.
3) Yeah.. risk in pvp.. what's your point? Are you under the impression I'm a supporter of the MB zonewhores? This is not a complaint about PvP, or where I can and cannoit engage. This is about arseholes running around trying to sabotage it.
It could be CM at MB. It could be a Green anywhere else.
well actually on mars this nice tactic has been employed in el farid inside the cave and all ppl who just leveled there with aoe dropped to -99sl/symp. then when they left they were ganked by the team at the gr and their belts hacked. that's what the problem is, and btw i don't like the mb fights either, but that using noob chars to just ruin some other players sl (and i mean normal 'law abiding citizen') is not termed griefplay is beyond my understanding. when these ppl then start to sympbitch it is an abuse. :wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by aKe`cj
the whole sl system is not protecting anyone anywhere, it just ruins the game for some ppl unlucky enuff to encounter some other runner that exploit it. imo until you come up with some reasonable sl/symp idea just leave it fixed at 100 for each faction and turn off the sl rules in all secs. :mad:
most ppl i know aren't afraid to die, but are afraid to be bound sitting in th for some weeks to regain their sl.
:D Zheo, when we were CM we used to do things like parashuting a full pe squad out of a doy carrrier at max altitude, take contracts, hell we even provided the carriers for the cm faction at the ceres disk storyline event.
Off course, 50k per soldier didn't go down too well with the guys since we lost two carriers in the fighting, mr redcloud unfortunatly ran into some stray bullets that day :D
But i hope CM gets fixed, since they are indeed more shafted than the outzone bums right now.
I agree that soullight is more open to exploitation than child labour, but a system to protect noobs is needed. However if things where sorted out right it would work fine. For example if you couldn't remove your le till you where say **/30 then it would maybe put people off creating a symp/soullight destroyer. Or if certain zones had their rules altered, like MB for example being an outskirts sector, so you lose less for killing a neutral and green. Or remove the sl penalties for runners under the /30 rank. However post many warnings about it.
You're suggesting that people should not be able to join a clan until their characters are well advanced? I think that would kill the game for new players pretty quickly.
N
3/4 nights casual play. And there's nothing extra a clan offers than a tag, some public cabs and a channel. Tag is irrelevant, channel can be worked around via buddy, and public cabs can be accessed by any friends already in clan. You can work around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidhogg
I'm more fond of this idea, as new players could still be supported by clans, and on the road to /30 can get a feel for what it's all about, without having to forgo the support of a clan.
It's really not that much of an issue.
I disagree. Clan membership is a vital part of the experience and new players need better links to the community than running around shouting "Where can I get 1337 stuff!" and hoping they will be "supported by clans".
This forum far too often thinks in terms of players who have been here for years where a new character is something that is created and quickly power-levelled to PvP standards.
N
You are aware thats its widley considered foolish for any new players to remove their LE before /50 or so? Its generally discouraged for newbies to join clans, because removing there LE means they WILL get killed repeatedly while levelling an lose a lot of stuff that the clans give them. Add to that the fact that most clans that invite lowbies are just ninja-invites and don't support them at all. Getting clanned at low level as a new player is already both considered unusal and inadvisable. So I fail to see how implmenting what was suggested would cause trouble anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidhogg
I agree, KK advises low level players to keep their LE in and they also say its viable for them to join clans.Quote:
Originally Posted by CMaster
Sounds a bit contradictive to me.
I think you should be prevented from being able to remove the le untill you hit rank 40.
We provide advice. We don't force people to take it.
Speaking from personal experience, when I was a newbie I was happy to risk my safety for the opportunity to join a clan (and had my ass kicked on numerous occasions - all part of the fun). If I was forced to play alone until I was more advanced then I probably would have quit.
It's a choice.
N
oh why, oh why, couldnt we have had this rule to begin with :O
I wandered around till I was /45 before joining a clan. Newbies don't hope to be supported, especially at the moment, anytime our faction, or even alliance discovered a new player, they'd support them, even if they didn't clan them, they got everything they needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidhogg
Yes, being in a clan is an integral part of the game. For a newbie who doesn't know what the hell goes on within them? I think not.
Key aspects of a clan.
OP ownership/fights... Last I looked, anyone could take part.
A nifty tag - Purely Aesthetic.
Channel - Yeah, fine, faction/budd/alliance works just as good. If anything a clan would promote a more insular attitude early on.
Public Cabs/Tradeskill support/ Bits and bats - generally these things just get given.
I'm still in favour of 30+ LE removal - it solves the SL issue to some degree. New players cannot miss out on something they never had. And at most it's an inconvenience for older players, solvable in a few hours of playtime.
More to the point, what use exactly is a < /30 to anyone? O_o
I kept my gentanks le in till he had 97 strength, base. I took my apu hybrid's le out ranked around /30, and He got attacked every five bloody minutes, at all the popular leveling locations, I had a choice between trecking to the distant places or dying constantly (in the end I decided i hated monks and deleted him) I see newbies all the time whining that they got killed by such and such and when I ask why they took their le out they say "My friend told me to" or some such, and I think so why are you complaining?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidhogg
The point is being part of a clan MAKES you a target more so than not being part, if say DR see a clan their at war with (and neutral too) they will still kill the noob, and tell him it's his fault, if he drops the tags (clan tags) he wont die. So Nidhogg, if you want to join a clan, waiting till your level /30 is probably a GOOD idea anyway.
The bottom line is that soullight is there to protect noobs, so why is it that it's set up so noobs can exploit it? Do I care if my 0/2 dies 1000 times, no because I'll be laughing at all the people who have to sit in tech haven over night. Of cause I wouldn't do that, it's rather sad really.
The situation is difficult but I'm sure I could work out a fair and just system, (but theres no point because I dont work for reakktor so it'd be ignored).
Zheo i like your idea in post number 45.
But i dont think nidd is gonna budge his stance on noobies needing help.
However what if it was possible to join a LE only clan up to the point where a char reaches lvl 31. At which point they are automatically kicked from the clan and they are able to remove their LE.
When/if the leader of the clan leaves or is auto kicked the next person down gets leadership status so the clan could continue.
Ofcourse these LE only clans could not take over outposts or take part in the other associated fighting practices of clans. But instead it could be a learning ground where new players can become used to how clans work, make alliances with other ppl and help each other out.
That would satisfy both sides of the argument... ours and nidds.
just an idea
i actually do think that claning too early for a real noob kills parts of the game, you will not explore the world on your own, you will be taken leveling way too fast imo, you actually are taken the best time of a game, when everything is new and you just run around and can find new things and places. i think a real noob is rather discouraged continuing to play if he gets ganked permanently by some hi lvl chars, cause he had some bad advice by a friend to remove the le at mc5
My point exactly, if you remove you le and join a clan you say "kill me" to not just reds but neutrals and sometimes even allies (at ops) simply because the clans at war with each other. If you remove your le you become a pvp'er if you want to or not, and believe it or not Nidhogg a three or four /30 characters couldn't take a /65. Unless he really sucks at pvp.Quote:
Originally Posted by yuuki
PPU support is another issue to consider, Many people take their le's out so they can be supported by a non le'd PPU when lvling as most ppu's are non le'd. It's a no win situation really with the LE, hard core pvp'ers cry about there being too many people running around with their le's in and not having enough people to gank. But when the person who gets ganked complains he gets a response of "you shouldnt have taken your le out".
I agreee with NIdhogg in that I dont think it would work to well if you had to keep your le in until a certain rank - and whats the reason for it? So the 10 - 20 people that fight at MB zoneline can save themselves a SL hit. This game is full of assholes and that solution wouldn't fix the problem.
I do think that it should be considered greifing though, people who purposely cause others harm by fucking up their SL is lame and should be treated as an exploit of the SL system itself, the same as sympbitching.
The problem with that is, "Are we sure it's griefplay" "if it is, do we fix the persons soullight or leave them with the neg sl."Quote:
Originally Posted by Faid