NC & WoW prices

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Originally Posted by Lusion

The problem is you are comparing wow PvE to NC PvP. Try pressing attack and watching a player die...tell me how that goes. You will get rolled. There is no clicking and waiting in level 60 pvp. Your post is like someone on the wow forums who played NC to /5 talking about how all you do is kill rats in neocron.

I am not a fan of people talking out thier ass about games they know little to nothing about....whether it be a neocron n00b saying the whole game is based on killing rats, or a wow n00b saying that all you have to do is click and wait for the monster/player to die. That works well until about..hrmm..level 3?

Both neocron and wow have thier ups and downs, its all about what you would rather play. Neocron is more pvp based, ill give you that, and because obtaining rares is so easy its all about skill vs skill. In world of warcraft, someone who plays 70+ hours a week and has epic gear out the wazoo will dummy someone who just hit 60 and has green gear....no matter how good that guy plays. On the other hand, the tactics involved in wow pvp (especially in ctf) is 500 times more advanced then anything in neocron. PvE in wow is even moreso advanced, killing a 127/127 mob in neocron is a joke. Killing onyxia or ragnoros in wow takes 40 people, everyone doing the exact right thing with a wicked strategy. No pve encounter in nc takes anywhere NEAR the skill to complete then onyxia/rag in wow.

Its all about what you want more, FPS skill (whoever can aim better) or strategy skill (whoever can outthink/strategize). Both are skills, neither is better then the other. Its preference.



Do you know what 60v60 pvp is like in wow? How can you say there is a lack of rush when you have no idea? Again, this is like a player who tried NC for 5 minutes saying there is a lack of rush because he didn't enjoy killing sewer rats. Come on...

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the combat system is neigh on identicle to that of Dark Age of Camelot which i played for years and years. i have done just about every type of PvP on that combat system. sure in DAoC it was sometimes fun to rush an enemy keep and slaughter them all... but its nothing compared to the NC PvP rush.

and "strategy" is pressing "5"... unless you block, then you press "6" for your super block counter attack... i'll take NC anyday :p

that said... if i hadnt played NC i would still be playing DAoC. and if i was still playing DAoC i would prolly move over to WoW. its the best i have seen for that kind of game... but that kind of game is totally different to this one, and having known iCe as long as i have i dont think he will enjoy it.

but if he's gonna try it then good luck to him (as i said)

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Originally Posted by Jesterthegreat

and "strategy" is pressing "5"... unless you block, then you press "6" for your super block counter attack... i'll take NC anyday :p

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Use that strategy against Onyxia. Tell me how you do.

Ill tell you my guild's strategy for Onyxia....

1) Group 1 north west, group 2 north east, group 3 east, group 4 south east, group 5 south, group 6 south west, group 7 west, group 8 mid

2) group 4/6 are welps (mage/warlock/priest/warrior/rogue x2)

3) group 1/2 are main tank and main tank backup groups (priest/warrior/druid/warlock/shaman)

4) healing rotation is:
4a) grp 1 priest, grp 1 druid, grp 1 shaman
4b) grp 2 priest, grp 2 druid, grp 2 shaman
4c) most available priest, second most available priest/druid, most available shammy

5) stage 1 - 5 minutes - MT takes onyxia, drags her to north wall, casters along south boarder - no dps until full sunder armor/mt says to start dps

6) casters during stage 1 must go low dps to ensure they dont pull aggro, rogues must constantly fade, grp 1/2 warlocks must be in north position to give the mt's pet buff

7) about 5-10% in, start full dps for 2-3 minutes

8) stage 2 begins...everyone take positions mentioned in 1), noone can be more then 3 or 4 body lengths away from each other or they will encourage onyxia to "deep breath" which is basically a wipe if she does

9) welp pit groups in position for spawning welps, all casters in range begin FULL dps on onyxia, priests/warlocks keep max debuf slots full on onyxia to discourage deep breath

10) stage 2 takes 4-6 minutes usually, and is the easiest stage as long as everyone keeps thier positions and dont bunch up

11) stage 3 begins - onyxia lands. mt takes ahold of onyxia, everyone stays AWAY FROM THE TAIL and runs to the NE/NW corners to ensure they dont get knocked into the whelp pits
11a) people will most likely get knocked into the pits, all warlocks/mages must be ready to aoe large bunches of whelps

12) once mt has onyxia to the north, light dps begins. when mt gets feared dps STOPS until mt gets onyxia back

13) at ~10%, full dps begins.

This is a very basic strategy for onyxia. I didn't go into detail...ooc ressers, buffing/debuffing specifics, lair navigation during stage 3 when the lava is spiking, etc.

This is an example of pve. Pvp strategy is even more complicated, considering there are literally hundreds of different types of buffs and debuffs in the game. A good player will know when and how to get rid of each one of these hundreds of debuffs. A bit of a different world from neocron...where there are basically 2 or 3 debuffs...para, dmg boost and poison. Again thats why its a different type of skill. FPS skill vs strategy. The closest thing to strategy in neocron is playing a ppu, because you have to know when to buff, when to heal, who to heal, who to buff...it can get hectic trying to keep your group alive. With that said, its INCREDIBLY easy to play a healer in neocron because they are next to invincible. In most mmo's, the healer is a weak class that has to be protected by the group.

It comes down to what you prefer....strategy vs hand-eye-coordination. Two different types of skills. Both games require both skills, but are heavy in one corner. Neocron requires ALOT of hand-eye-coordination...but having only very few buffs/debuffs it doesn't require alot of strategy. People flame fantasy mmo's for being "point and click", when really neocron is also point and click...point your aimer at the player and click to fire. wow on the other hand requires ALOT of strategy....i mean look at a mage or warlock....TONS of spells, debuffs, dots, etc compared to an APU who basically will just spam one or two spells over and over. Alot of strategy required, but only little hand-eye coordination.

Myself? I like both...so I play both. FPS is great, takes alot of skill to kill the other player. Also, strategy is fun...winning a match of CTF against one of the best guilds on the server is huge. Both are a great time, I choose both.

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Originally Posted by Vae Victis

lol Eric I didn't know u play WoW :p

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i do, lvl 60 rogue :)
but i suck in pvp >.<

btw, tell me when u'r online, want u to powerlvl my gunz char, i'm lvl 5 and too lazy to keep on killing ppl to get a better weapon.
ass.

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Originally Posted by E. Cryton

i do, lvl 60 rogue :)
but i suck in pvp >.<

btw, tell me when u'r online, want u to powerlvl my gunz char, i'm lvl 5 and too lazy to keep on killing ppl to get a better weapon.
ass.

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i quit playing gunz :p

nibbish nib...
i bet it was too hard for u -.- ..

so what are u playing now ?

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Originally Posted by Lusion

Use that strategy against Onyxia. Tell me how you do.

Ill tell you my guild's strategy for Onyxia....

1) Group 1 north west, group 2 north east, group 3 east, group 4 south east, group 5 south, group 6 south west, group 7 west, group 8 mid

2) group 4/6 are welps (mage/warlock/priest/warrior/rogue x2)

3) group 1/2 are main tank and main tank backup groups (priest/warrior/druid/warlock/shaman)

4) healing rotation is:
4a) grp 1 priest, grp 1 druid, grp 1 shaman
4b) grp 2 priest, grp 2 druid, grp 2 shaman
4c) most available priest, second most available priest/druid, most available shammy

5) stage 1 - 5 minutes - MT takes onyxia, drags her to north wall, casters along south boarder - no dps until full sunder armor/mt says to start dps

6) casters during stage 1 must go low dps to ensure they dont pull aggro, rogues must constantly fade, grp 1/2 warlocks must be in north position to give the mt's pet buff

7) about 5-10% in, start full dps for 2-3 minutes

8) stage 2 begins...everyone take positions mentioned in 1), noone can be more then 3 or 4 body lengths away from each other or they will encourage onyxia to "deep breath" which is basically a wipe if she does

9) welp pit groups in position for spawning welps, all casters in range begin FULL dps on onyxia, priests/warlocks keep max debuf slots full on onyxia to discourage deep breath

10) stage 2 takes 4-6 minutes usually, and is the easiest stage as long as everyone keeps thier positions and dont bunch up

11) stage 3 begins - onyxia lands. mt takes ahold of onyxia, everyone stays AWAY FROM THE TAIL and runs to the NE/NW corners to ensure they dont get knocked into the whelp pits
11a) people will most likely get knocked into the pits, all warlocks/mages must be ready to aoe large bunches of whelps

12) once mt has onyxia to the north, light dps begins. when mt gets feared dps STOPS until mt gets onyxia back

13) at ~10%, full dps begins.

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pve? no biggie. the mobs are much better is WoW. every mob in NC is soloable given the right stratagy and char.

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This is a very basic strategy for onyxia. I didn't go into detail...ooc ressers, buffing/debuffing specifics, lair navigation during stage 3 when the lava is spiking, etc.

This is an example of pve. Pvp strategy is even more complicated, considering there are literally hundreds of different types of buffs and debuffs in the game. A good player will know when and how to get rid of each one of these hundreds of debuffs. A bit of a different world from neocron...where there are basically 2 or 3 debuffs...para, dmg boost and poison. Again thats why its a different type of skill. FPS skill vs strategy. The closest thing to strategy in neocron is playing a ppu, because you have to know when to buff, when to heal, who to heal, who to buff...it can get hectic trying to keep your group alive. With that said, its INCREDIBLY easy to play a healer in neocron because they are next to invincible. In most mmo's, the healer is a weak class that has to be protected by the group.

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try using a really strict and complex plan like that in PvP. oh and dont tell me people use "hundreeds of types of buffs and debuffs". in all games theres the debuffs best to use. ones that aree worth the time spent using your mana and using your "healer" time. if you sat there using all the debuffs your team would drop. theres always the best few that get used.

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It comes down to what you prefer....strategy vs hand-eye-coordination. Two different types of skills. Both games require both skills, but are heavy in one corner. Neocron requires ALOT of hand-eye-coordination...but having only very few buffs/debuffs it doesn't require alot of strategy. People flame fantasy mmo's for being "point and click", when really neocron is also point and click...point your aimer at the player and click to fire. wow on the other hand requires ALOT of strategy....i mean look at a mage or warlock....TONS of spells, debuffs, dots, etc compared to an APU who basically will just spam one or two spells over and over. Alot of strategy required, but only little hand-eye coordination.

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thats not stratagy. thats timing. try playing a good FPS against a world class player... thats stratagy.

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Myself? I like both...so I play both. FPS is great, takes alot of skill to kill the other player. Also, strategy is fun...winning a match of CTF against one of the best guilds on the server is huge. Both are a great time, I choose both.

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i like a stratagy... but it no longer consists of timing my number presses.

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Originally Posted by E. Cryton

nibbish nib...
i bet it was too hard for u -.- ..

so what are u playing now ?

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im playing nc1 and some of the final fantasy series (7, 8 and 10, atm 10)

Sorry but cannot agree with you jester, you are wrong and you keep showing how little time and progression you actually had in WoW. Nothing wrong with that, first ten levels i thought were boring as hell. There are hundreds of spells, buffs and debuffs. They are almost all used. I can only think of a few i dont use and that is only because of my play style and or not fighting a mob or player that was vunerable to the specific talent or ability. The reason they are almost all used is because not everyone can use the same things, a rogue is not going to go around healing and buffing everyone because he can't do it.



"thats not stratagy. thats timing. try playing a good FPS against a world class player... thats stratagy."

thats not a FPS. thats timing. try playing a good RTS against a world class player... thats strategy.

I think your view on what defines a strategy game is vastly diffferent from most people, at least compared to with groups i've gamed with in the past.
I would say there is more timing and mouse moving...skill...and split second reaction/decision when it comes to a FPS then there is actual thought and planning things out which is what defines more strategic games for me. But whatever floats your boat :)

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Originally Posted by Lothar IB

Sorry but cannot agree with you jester, you are wrong and you keep showing how little time and progression you actually had in WoW. Nothing wrong with that, first ten levels i thought were boring as hell. There are hundreds of spells, buffs and debuffs. They are almost all used. I can only think of a few i dont use and that is only because of my play style and or not fighting a mob or player that was vunerable to the specific talent or ability. The reason they are almost all used is because not everyone can use the same things, a rogue is not going to go around healing and buffing everyone because he can't do it.



"thats not stratagy. thats timing. try playing a good FPS against a world class player... thats stratagy."

thats not a FPS. thats timing. try playing a good RTS against a world class player... thats strategy.

I think your view on what defines a strategy game is vastly diffferent from most people, at least compared to with groups i've gamed with in the past.
I would say there is more timing and mouse moving...skill...and split second reaction/decision when it comes to a FPS then there is actual thought and planning things out which is what defines more strategic games for me. But whatever floats your boat :)

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played age of something (not empires... the newer one) against someone who played in the world championship or whatever it is (he got beat fairly early though). also played him at just about all the new RTS's on the market at the time (he owned a net cafe... loadsa games and network love).

RTS... that takes planning. however its not required. when playing C&C generals against him i remember rushing to get 5 rocket man, a humvee and the rocket upgrade for the humvee. drive that into his base that early and theres nothing to stop it. did i plan it? no. i just went with it.

but i tell ya what. we arent gonna agree.

how about you run gamecam or something... record me some PvP. maybe i'll even be so impressed as to agree with you and even start playing myself. i'd offer to do the same... but if you post on these forums i assume you have PvP'd in nc.

The epic sets are hard to get and take weeks and weeks to get, you need to take 40 people to even get a chance to kill any of the bosses, at 5-10 mins each... then you have to argue who gets what... take too much preparation to get them, The blue high lvl sets are pretty good anyway.

The PvP in WoW is very samey, and you rarely get any recognition for how good you maybe are.

Once you've completed Molten Core, killed Onyxia, become field commander and got the best armor your prepared to get thats it. Time to basically Wash, rinse and repeat.

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Originally Posted by Vae Victis

im playing nc1 and some of the final fantasy series (7, 8 and 10, atm 10)

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ff10 sucks, ff10 2 sucks more, wheres ff9 in that list, its better than 10 and 10-2 and 7 put together

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Originally Posted by Xiphias

The epic sets are hard to get and take weeks and weeks to get, you need to take 40 people to even get a chance to kill any of the bosses, at 5-10 mins each... then you have to argue who gets what... take too much preparation to get them, The blue high lvl sets are pretty good anyway.

The PvP in WoW is very samey, and you rarely get any recognition for how good you maybe are.

Once you've completed Molten Core, killed Onyxia, become field commander and got the best armor your prepared to get thats it. Time to basically Wash, rinse and repeat.

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in most MMO's the epic stuff is like that. i remember when i played Dark Age Of Camelot... the size of the armies that used to go to do an epic mission for a single guy...

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Originally Posted by ZoVoS

ff10 sucks, ff10 2 sucks more, wheres ff9 in that list, its better than 10 and 10-2 and 7 put together

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pfft 7 > all

Didnt rate 9 massively but enjoyed it coz everything seemed very hard to fight, 8 was to stupid spent most of my time drawing magic, then being confused by the ending.

10 is good i like the way the summons work but thought the leveling system was mad, went around that sphere thing on my chars about 5 times or something mad
FFX-2 got on my tits the "girls" pissed me of they were like 7 yr olds and it did ma head in as most over japanesified girls do always making to much noise n gettin overly excited at little lol

and yeh mmo high content is high content...

FFXI the ultimate boss kirin needs a alliance ofr 40+ capped people and you have a slight chance he may drop Kirins robe or Kirins pole and since he takes a good long ass amount of time to kill .... well it may be very very rare

I am currently deciding weather to reactivate nc or reactivate wow hearing ssc is on bladefist is good, knew ADLN were on there never seen ssc i was running with the trickery guild if u seen them on there.

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Originally Posted by LTA

FFX-2 got on my tits the "girls" pissed me of they were like 7 yr olds and it did ma head in as most over japanesified girls do always making to much noise n gettin overly excited at little lol.

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Took 10 minutes of that game to get on my tits, i was like WTF at the music video intro and then the idea of hunting new pretty dresses and changing my clothes for the hell of it just made me kill people on GTA:III lol

tbh, FFX is the best.
Tidus has a babyface tho, but I like wakka and auron.
rikku just sucks a bit, but gets better once shes high lvl.
you can lvl so easily, just go to the sin place or something.

and ive never used an aeon vs any mob or boss, except sin.
and the first seymour but you have no choice.

aeons suck I think :p
overpowered tbh

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Originally Posted by Vae Victis

tbh, FFX is the best.
Tidus has a babyface tho, but I like wakka and auron.
rikku just sucks a bit, but gets better once shes high lvl.
you can lvl so easily, just go to the sin place or something.

and ive never used an aeon vs any mob or boss, except sin.
and the first seymour but you have no choice.

aeons suck I think :p
overpowered tbh

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I never got around to actually progressing that far in the game- i just played that underwater ball-game all the time

FF7 was my personal favourite tho

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Originally Posted by Vae Victis

tbh, FFX is the best.
Tidus has a babyface tho, but I like wakka and auron.
rikku just sucks a bit, but gets better once shes high lvl.
you can lvl so easily, just go to the sin place or something.

and ive never used an aeon vs any mob or boss, except sin.
and the first seymour but you have no choice.

aeons suck I think :p
overpowered tbh

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all my stats are 255, i think i killed the last baddy boss in 1 hit