The Future of Neocron

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03-01-05, 23:42
Lothar IB

oh i long for the day of another shadowrun game :)

Neocron certianly has the most potential of all the current games i've seen in this area, i think the big reasons why other games could cause it serious problems is the support they get. Not just money wise but the updates given to the community and the greater communication and bug free environments they offer.

I prfer scifi setting and so do lots i know, but i'd rather play with elfs and be able to play a game that can offer me and my unit a stable platform to play in/on. Can't see renewing my account in the future if the current range of problems is not solved :( :(
04-01-05, 03:01
shdowman

Well, I feel I should throw in my 2 cents here.
I've been playing NC for about 15 months now. I got into the game late because of the stigma of MMORPG's, but after much coaxing my brother finally got me into the game, needless to say I thought it was a great time. I started off slow then moved into a clan (Dark) ...then everything changed from there. But sometime in August, Pluto died (for those of you who were there....you know what I mean) with everyone anxiously awaiting NC2. I couldn't wait either, with all the new things coming to the game i.e. New City, New Servers, Item Tracking, Player Shops, WoC, Hacknet. Well, I don't need to go over with you what was finished and what wasn't :(. But, nonetheless, these things were supposed to be out when we purchased this "new" game. But they were not and we all payed for the "New Game" as well as paying more per month for what???? Empty servers? The same mobs, a content void mostly empty new city, more bugs as well as the old ones (but much worse now). Are people actually REALLY questioning why most of the community are moving on to other games?? I do enjoy the idea behind this game as being a FPSMMORPG, but I really can't justify paying the same price for a sub-substandard product when other games out there at least offer a more playable, community supported, properly coded environment, whether I like fantasy or not. Now, I would love to sit back and say, "hey, no worries KK, I'll stick it with ya" but ya know, only way now would be if they said to us "hey you know what, we're sorry for not having a complete product like we promised....so while you wait for us to finish what we need to do, we will charge you the old NC price of $9.99/month" LMFAO � It'll never happen!!!! Pretty much all of my clan mates have moved to "another" MMORPG, even the ones who can't get it yet have quit NC. I fear this game has seen it's last days. I was going to stick it out until TW came out, but I don't think the game will even survive that long. It has been fun :(
04-01-05, 03:35
Nikabolokov

Its very simple really. If you enjoy the game, play it. If you dont, dont.If you think its too much per month stop playing.

I've gone through every stage of playing Neocron, loving it , hating it, etc etc.

Once you play it for a long period of time, like any other game , it is going to lose some appeal. If you get to this stage take a break, and then you will be back, trust me:)
04-01-05, 04:27
Necrosadistic

Heh, Neocrack still brings everyone back...

However much the players may hate many things about the game, it still manages to keep afloat, somehow, no matter how low the pops are, they go back up again. When I first started playing a year and a half ago, everyone predicted NCs death ina few months. And yet it still lives. Somehow, despite all odds.
04-01-05, 05:31
Seven

Thing is, the game is fucking awesome!

It's almost like, you would have to fuck up this bad, over and over for this amount of time, on "purpose" to kill it!

Why do they kill it? Why? :( :confused: :wtf:
04-01-05, 13:12
Ministry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrosadistic

Heh, Neocrack still brings everyone back...

not true, sure some do come back, i took a break and have returned.

however many others who i knew from NC1 are no longer around, and have been gone for a good amount of time.

some a few months/ weeks others i know left year or so ago, and never returned.

to say it brings everyone back is un true.

and much of the reason many people come back is the fact most MMORPGs are fantasy, if you dislike those games(and for the most part i do)then you are stuck really, its basically either neocron/ao/planetside now if you dont mind the click click afair of AO then you can play that, but if you like the FPS based idea then its either NC or PS, and tbh PS is a fps with a few points to allocate nothing more, so really its just NC until other games in this style are released.

tbh back in NC1 when various games were coming out, PS/shadowbane/SWG etc and people were saying its the end of NC, never belived it because they are not the same sort of game that the people who play this game like.

there are a few games in the pipeline that could take a large chunk from this games populus. however they aint out for a while.

however the games poor player retention rate is due to KK.

they have said they will do many things and often they dont do it, hey thats the way it goes, im not stupid enough to belive they can get every thing right all the time people and companies do make mistakes.

a number of players left because so many things KK have said would be here aint.

take the item distrebution, atm it sucks really, however if KK had introduced player shops there would be np, people could get what they need no hassles.

ceres skills were the big draw for veteran players to NC2 yet basically they are not there.

it seems strange that KK spend the 2 years making this(as i recall they were originally going to release it early retail)yet many things they said would be here aint.

of course flip side is they have added some things that wernt expected, but it isnt enough for many people who did stick with the game so long.

Neocron isnt going to die anytime soon, but its future certainly isnt as bright as it looked back in October 2002.

it would be a shame for this game to fail and i hope KK can continue and make this a sucsess(sp)
04-01-05, 16:38
Bugs Gunny

I paid NC2 for 6 months on two accounts....
Yesterday i got me an Anarchy online account and i'm gonna try that this weekend.
Getting myself an open beta account for FOMK at the end of the month.

I hope NC2 has playershops and all the other stuff KK used to make us want to buy NC2.
However right now i feel like i've been promised a full option car for a price increase, and you know what???? I got last year's model with a pimped out spoiler on it, but still a standard model.

I realy love the game, but i'm sure a lot of people will leave if the competition offers a game equal to or better in the scifi fps genre.
04-01-05, 17:06
5150

I honestly believe that KK dont actually care about what else is going on in the MMO[RP]G market (and this might be their biggest 'problem')

I wouldnt be suprised if the guys at KK were working flat out doing what they are doing and couldnt do anything to change the timing of bugs or any further boxed release even if they wanted to

To be fair as long as NC 'pays KKs bills' they probably dont care too much about anything else (assuming they have time to care - see previous paragraph) which brings me back to something I've said before

Personally I believe KK bit off more than they could chew with NC, while [they probably knew] it was always going to be a niche title (FPS interfaces dont appeal to everyone - certainly not those with slower connections/PC and the heavy PvP slant, as well as almost total absence of RP will put many others off) I do think they underestimated what it would entail....
04-01-05, 17:23
zii

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

Thing is, the game is fucking awesome!

It's almost like, you would have to fuck up this bad, over and over for this amount of time, on "purpose" to kill it!

Why do they kill it? Why? :( :confused: :wtf:

I'm still playing. Love it to bits as well. I don't have a problem with content and the bugs are bugs that I can usually live it. Sadly, they're annoying and have been around for bit too long. in some cases I don't see how they can be mended since they depend on my computer(s), and my internet connection ^^

I was hacked off at loosing my five apps of kit from NC1, but I don't really care anymore; Its a game. Its easy to adapt.

As as someone else noted, this game does attact some older people. (My girlfriend says that I'm 32 and I think I'm 33, but I was never good at Maths).

I haven't played many MMOPFs. Only Mankind. I have come from Elite/Frontier + Privateer + Doom1/2/ Quake1/2. I looked at SWG and although you can build nice houses and fly, but I still prefer NC with its element of danger. Just needs more people.

So, I'm actually quite happy. I would like to see Parashock only affect mobs.
I'd like to see SL do something. I;m sure that there are alot "i'd like to see...", but the point is that I still enjoy playing this game, and always have done.

lasty, I use a lot of 'commercial business software and hardware', (no names meantioned) such as enterprise backup software, RAID arrays DLT jukeboxes and various computer systems. Almost all of these have bugs, bugs, documented features that don't exist and never will be/ implemeteations that should have stayed in beta, and they charge so much more. My backup DLT from a leading vendor cost us 20,000 USD and I think NC is better value for money.

@5150 - I think that you're right about KK biting off more than they could chew. Given the size of the company I expect they are working as hard as you described. Oh well. Happy 2005. I hope that they get paid overtime.

Again, and lasty: I need to see greater server population, please.
04-01-05, 18:09
darkservent

Well TW looks like exactly the same as NC except its better engine, More Skill based unlike NC with the Class based approach, and well not much difference atm. Though TW looks great and most probably will follow the game more and hope it dont fuck up.

FOMK atm is empty no players at all as no content, come back in a month or so and should be sorted. World graphics great but char gfx is awful. The games gettin alotta updates recently and adding content quite quickly. Its alot more stable though than NC. And theres alotta ex NC vets on the boards in FOMK.

Lets see where NC goes till then I'm not gonna sort out the C2P crisis on my accounts...YET.
04-01-05, 21:03
Nikabolokov

There are also a lot of them that say they dont play NC anymore , but do :)
05-01-05, 06:04
Seven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikabolokov

There are also a lot of them that say they dont play NC anymore , but do :)

Well the server numbers aren't showing them.
05-01-05, 07:25
Spoon

[ edited ]
05-01-05, 17:26
Ministry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

Well the server numbers aren't showing them.

yup since i came back a few days ago, the numbers when i log on are rarely over 20%, now im aware that some are staying away while we have the problem on terra but surely that wouldnt account for the other 30% on top of that that the servers should be getting.

the way they have split everyone up pro v anti just highlights the lack of people even more.
05-01-05, 18:58
DaxAra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

Well the server numbers aren't showing them.

a lot of ppl i know either left or are about to.
06-01-05, 22:14
(eXo) Opaleye

Basically I see it like this, and feel it represents ALOT of people from out of game chat.

KK screwed me and others into believing in content that would be there and wasn't and getting us to pay for their beta (again) as they did when first released.

So they got me for the 6 mos. payments x 3 accounts which I should have known better than to do based on previous experience and delivered absolute crap on the, IMO, best basis for a MMORPG going and completely screwed thier patrons expectations with continued lies.

I can afford to play other games and dont play NC2 at this time due to total disgust with their practices and will not renew at the end of the 6 mos unless they deliver as promised, not that it will matter if the populations continue to dwindle to laughable low numbers.

Does any other game have the potential that this one does - NO!!

Do you however see any REAL pregression towards delivering on the game we all payed for - NO again.

I have and do love the game but have come to dispise the developers and their lack of ability to deliver. And thats the bottom line.

If you are KK, 10tacell, or any unknown entity ( I would'nt want anyone to know how poorly this has been managed if I were responsible for this game )you obviously dont care enough to be in your position and should be ashamed as well as industry branded with your past actions and disgusting business practices / customer relations.

Just the opinion of someone who has been spit on by your company and would like and expect, if it were anyone else, to recieve an apology and a towel to wipe my face off with.

You have my money and in closing I have enjoyed the game community that found itself trapped in your disallusions for years. Funny that honestly I would love to be wrong about all this and see you fulfill all of your promises and have the fully functioning and profitable game that should be running as I am writing this.

You know your community is stretched on patience, is tired of mistruths, and is sadly giving up on you - wont you do what needs to be done ?
06-01-05, 22:35
Nidhogg

Hey, get down off that fence. Seriously, we hate to see comments like this but all we can say is that we've never tried to "trick" people into upgrading - there was an open beta for everyone to try it out. We feel that Neocron 2 has changed for the better both externally as well as "under the covers" and we are constantly striving to improve and extend it within the limitations of the resources available to us. There's plenty more to come.

N
06-01-05, 22:36
TheJesterReturn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nidhogg

Hey, get down off that fence. Seriously, we hate to see comments like this but all we can say is that we've never tried to "trick" people into upgrading - there was an open beta for everyone to try it out. We feel that Neocron 2 has changed for the better both externally as well as "under the covers" and we are constantly striving to improve and extend it within the limitations of the resources available to us. There's plenty more to come.

N

[ edited ]
07-01-05, 00:08
dem0n

well we've yet to see a constructive comment from you Jester.

first off, NC2 if far more stable than NC1. secondly, since NC2 KK has tasked a lot more people for community events, and ingame events. your taking the work of those people for granted. secondly, for all the good KK does, there seems to be a mass of people which choke on the first little mistake that happens and flames them before they even get a chance to say anything about it.

NC will never die, as long as there are people which have NC fixes running through their veins... we've played many MMOs which were bound to make NC collapse on itself, but we always came back... as galant and huge as they may look, it never seems to amaze me that KK did many things right and better comparing to them. every MMO I start to play seems to be better than any other I've tried before, but after a while that bafelling fog seems to go away, and I realize how stupid that MMO is. I'll always keep coming back to NC.

I don't see how some of you can say NC1 > NC2... by what means? goodbye descriptions, goodbye new items, goodbye logical drops, goodbye CvC, goodbye hacknet, goodbye 1000 app furnishing items, goodbye DoY, goodbye faction alliances, goodbye new post release items, goodbye colloseum, goodbye new NPC distributed sales, goodbye TH [as a trade town], goodbye FSMs, goodbye nonrare items [which have previously been useless rares], goodbye PR staff, goodbye faction relations, goodbye sexy NPC models, goodbye WoC skills and areas... good bye content which in total expanded NC 1 by a fair ammount.... and goodbye NC itself since I don't believe it could have managed to exist anymore.

what I'd hopefully like to see is goodbye to people like this who come back and post "hide you bitches, I'm back to fucking PK you cause I'm cool and I rule your asses yeaaaahhh, I ROCK!" which have nothing better to say than "fuck KK, theyr crap, because.... because.... because I don't know because everyone else keeps saying it, and I'm in my fetal intelectual stages and didn't yet evolve to think with my head so I'll just rephrase the flame before"
07-01-05, 00:51
DaxAra

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJesterReturn

[ edited ]

if you think so.. then way did you open an account?

you could try a beta account.. or if you warent there during the open beta, there are trial accounts..

seriously..
if you are ganna say that NC2 is bad. make sure you got a good (VERRY GOOD) reason to say so... not just because you feel like saying it.
07-01-05, 00:57
DaxAra

Quote:

Originally Posted by dem0n

what I'd hopefully like to see is goodbye to people like this who come back and post "hide you bitches, I'm back to fucking PK you cause I'm cool and I rule your asses yeaaaahhh, I ROCK!" which have nothing better to say than "fuck KK, theyr crap, because.... because.... because I don't know because everyone else keeps saying it, and I'm in my fetal intelectual stages and didn't yet evolve to think with my head so I'll just rephrase the flame before"

well the reason that they keep talking like that is basicly because its easey..
if something does not work exactly as THEY want it to... just blame others..

there are no posts like that with a grounded reason. or a good description whay they think so..
they just blame...

DaxAra
07-01-05, 01:09
Selendor

Demon, I agree with some of what you say in defending Neocron 2, but in the end, the features you list are not changing the core gaming experience for most players. When you look at:

Player Models
Rpos
Faction Specific Items

These are things that many people (including myself) see as steps backwards rather than forwards. What people really wanted to see were things like:

- Player Shops to counter Faction Specific Items problems
- Core changes to Soulight rules
- Core improvements to game stability and server data corruption
- New opportunities for Op wars, and other conflict areas making combat 'fun'
- Strong examination of PPU balance
- Item tracking for better helpdesk service
- Stronger controls on roleplay (ie same faction pk)

I think that the Droner fixes were good, but don't really affect enough of the player base, if KK can address even one or two of the above in the near future Neocron will begin to win back many of the cynics of the forum, who you should note were not always so negative.

The opportunity is there for KK, lets hope in the coming weeks we see some progress now that the holidays have passed.
07-01-05, 01:45
Jesterthegreat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selendor

What people really wanted to see were things like:

- Player Shops to counter Faction Specific Items problems
- Core changes to Soulight rules
- Core improvements to game stability and server data corruption
- New opportunities for Op wars, and other conflict areas making combat 'fun'
- Strong examination of PPU balance
- Item tracking for better helpdesk service
- Stronger controls on roleplay (ie same faction pk)

agreed...

i no longer see any problems major enough to push these off the top priority.

1. item tracking
2. player shops
3. SL / faction PK (same subject really)
4. BALANCE (stealth / ppu)
5. stability, syncs, FRE's (obv these arent easy to fix)
07-01-05, 03:28
TheJesterReturn

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaxAra

if you think so.. then way did you open an account?

you could try a beta account.. or if you warent there during the open beta, there are trial accounts..

seriously..
if you are ganna say that NC2 is bad. make sure you got a good (VERRY GOOD) reason to say so... not just because you feel like saying it.

Actually, [ edited ]. I had played for like 2 years and quit when Beta Came out cause Neocron 2 sucked, then came back to give it a try and it still sucks. Neocron 1, I had alot more people to kill now if you wanna kill someone looks like your trying to kill 10+ people at once.

So, shut your damn mouth [ edited ].
07-01-05, 12:44
dem0n

my goodbye wish came through!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selendor

- Player Shops to counter Faction Specific Items problems
- Core changes to Soulight rules
- Core improvements to game stability and server data corruption
- New opportunities for Op wars, and other conflict areas making combat 'fun'
- Strong examination of PPU balance
- Item tracking for better helpdesk service
- Stronger controls on roleplay (ie same faction pk)

player shops are a matter of time I believe... the community has argumented it and made clear that NC requires such a boost, and KK will get down to it in a theme week, hopefully the next one. it's going to be a lot of work, but I believe they've already planed the area, the design, just need to finish it. I'm not the one to believe that they were sitting on their heads during the NC1<->NC2 period and haven't done nothing on the realization of the player shops.

SL ruls need to be changed I agree, there have to be larger penalties. many people have suggested that 1 kill should give a negative score of -X, the next time a negative score of 4x(-X) [just a example] to prevent people for rampaging, the first kill won't give such a large penalty, every day we accidently kill someone, a weak player with our AoE, a NPC which dies in 1 hit from our dmg stack weapon etc. what I would also like to see is that the NPC AI gets improved... if you se a PRO NC runner in DoY, EVERY guard should shoot at them, and no "what are you doing in this area?" "you have 5 seconds to get out of my sight or I'll shoot" statements, it's shoot to kill. you have a weapon... and you see a PRO NC, there aren't more things than 1 thing a PRO NC can do in DoY.

I believe the server side and client side applications got improved in NC2, for me the game is far more stable. I expirience a FRE once in my 24h of play, and mostly it's 2 FREs, the logout FRE and the CityCom FRE. apart from that I haven't expirienced any other FREs, I don't crash when minimizing NC to taskbar etc. KK has developed tools which help them fix problems on the fly, and unlike before, they don't need to take the server down or apply a rollback. they've proved this with NC2, terra and we'll see better work from their side on the server side issues in the future.

OP wars remain dull, I think we can all agree on that. people occupy OPs not to gain benefits [or it has a very small influence in OP taking], but rather to stirr trouble. OPs aren't in 99% cases defended. they stay there, deserted, just waiting for another clan to try and take them so they can GR there and kill them. I don't believe any clans have a certin connection with their OP, like allocating people for protection, resources for defense systems... an OP as a OP clearly means nothing to noone. HN made a noticable change in OP hacking, but has it given a noticable content boost? there are many things that can be done with OP and I do not want to post them here, but we all gave our suggestions and I hope KK will try to apply some of those ideas.

I'm not going to comment much on the PPU balance, since I was never good in that area, but I admit PPU buffs mean a lot on the battlefield, and it makes the transition from man to monster possible, I'd agree some classes need the buffs more than others, but buffing some classes which can achieve high resistances in more than one area makes them omnivalent... and thats never a good thing.

I'm definitly up for item tracking, though it sometimes makes me wonder how much resources will it use, will it degrade the server stability etc. it's basicly generating a lot more info, adding more info, and refreshing more info than pre item tracking. just wondering will the server\database manage all of this, although if it isn't at it's very limits then I think there aren't any grounds for my concerns.

there has to be a stronger control on runners roleplay, but as far as I can see it has to come from SL regulations. SL is the law and order! we need to modify the SL rules to regulate peoples actions. you kill a city member give him -7 SL, he was a lower rank than you add another -3, he wasn't neutral he was allied add another -3, you killed your faction member add -10, was a lower rank than you give him another -3, other factions believe that if you kill your own brother then you clearly represent a threat to them for being such a cold blooded killer and gain -5 symp with all factions dissregarding if your enemy, neutral or ally to them, and also loose a large ammount of standings twoards your own faction. without such brutal SL rules you'll never be able to prevent stupid unmotivated non-roleplay actions from certin [d***h***ed] runners.
07-01-05, 17:27
ThUnDerHaSi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nidhogg

Hey, get down off that fence. Seriously, we hate to see comments like this but all we can say is that we've never tried to "trick" people into upgrading - there was an open beta for everyone to try it out.

U remember the things in the armor window? There where 2 Windows for something like ciggarets or whatever. I have to say i was really impressed that they added the window...and now..its gone...thats an exampel what the trying of the beta is worth

Now back to Topic
Not even 1 game is able to "kill" Neocron...but all games together. I saw big Neocron clans leaving NC for Planetside, LineAge2, WoW, SWG, FFXI...and more onlinegames will apear...and it wont take that everyone finds a game they prefer...just for example...some ppls like PvP and want to fight with theyre skill...Planetside is pure skillbased...RP is ubbba fucking well in LinaAge...If u want some RP and want to fly around then get SWG + Jump to lightspeed...and more games will apear...
07-01-05, 19:42
Xylaz

Its very simple from my perspective.
Bad marketing, Bad communications, Lots of lies and Dirty marketing tricks - that's all what this game is made from.
KK have given us around 1% from what they have promised, and this 1% is bugged even more than the whole nc1. Yet they are still keep up the 'good old ways'. Most people, including me, are simply tired of this so they wont believe KK anymore. That's the place where pessimism crawls in, but KK have worked very hard for that.
07-01-05, 20:24
dem0n

just what have they promised and wasn't delivered, what is bugged, what bad communication, what lies?? can any one of you be detailed and support what you say? don't you people get sick with writing these surfaced flames.
07-01-05, 22:44
Jesterthegreat

Quote:

Originally Posted by dem0n

just what have they promised and wasn't delivered, what is bugged, what bad communication, what lies?? can any one of you be detailed and support what you say? don't you people get sick with writing these surfaced flames.

ffs on my NC 1 box is says there is a BoP (balance of power) system ingame... that should have been ingame for years. it wasnt possibly... it wasnt a consideration... it says its ingame on nc1 release.

could i have much more of an example of lies / marketing tricks than something that was said was ingame on the box of the origional for years?
08-01-05, 00:30
olavski

i would play on Neocron 1 servers

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