(POLL) APU Casting Frequency

Printable View

Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

08-10-12, 17:30
\\F�nyx//

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brammers

MC - Not convinced buffing up MC will do anything to help here, since I've been convinced it's a netcode issue that makes M-C tanks crap in PvP. May be wrong on this one.

I beg to differ on that view, I did fine on my melee tank before the 2.2 changes. There used to be issues way back where player location was very iffy compared to how it is now, the work around on that was putting melee range upto 10 meters, which helped out a hell of alot. The problem with melee now is that its damage seems to have been reduced in comparison to the damage caused by the equivalent ranged weapons around the same TL, and on top of that, the rate of fire is lower then it used to be.

Melee has no range to it, if youre the one thats jumped, at any distance, youre effectively screwed if someone knows how to take out your legs. however because of that, ive always felt that melee should do comparable damage to the other classes, because as a 'bonus' melee has unhindered movement which can be used practically as a weapon in itself to cause confusion or distractions.

There is that balance though, just putting the rate of fire up isnt a 1 hit fix, the base damage caused has to be taken into account too and find that balance that makes its damage on par with the other classes.
08-10-12, 17:55
Forget My Name

APU - Single target spell Frequency bumped up a TAD, but not much. APU have massive AOE spells and can level just fine.

Melee - Frequency and damage needs to be bumped up, but that isn't the issue. Melee still needs some form of AOE damage to make sure the melee style is a good one for players to use from ranks 2 - 60, and not just a weapon class Heavy Cannon users LOM to when capped. Why even have melee weapons bellow rank 60 usage if the purpose of them is just for capped pvp?

Melee - More important than anything I said above is damage reduction. For leveling, Melee requires much more, much better damage reduction than any other weapon class. Even with the fixes above, you seriously think Melee players are going to be single targeting Regant/Fire Cave/El Farid mobs while Heavy Cannon users are hitting 10 mobs at once? Seriously? And how long is this melee user going to live running head first into 90/90+ rank mobs? 3 seconds?
08-10-12, 18:08
nabbl

Please do NOT forget bringing back the old casting animations for rezz and antibuff. So that you actually see what is being casted...
08-10-12, 18:35
Haxxor

APU should get a slight increase.

Melee shouldn't have AoE as it's against what Melee stands for.
Melee should have specialist Armour which offers greater protection from damage than ranged combat classes.

Overall an overview of classes needs to be looked at.
08-10-12, 19:05
illidan

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabbl

Please do NOT forget bringing back the old casting animations for rezz and antibuff. So that you actually see what is being casted...

I absolutly agree.

And APU should get antibuffs back, PPUs got way to much anti spells, poisen energy xray .... to much we only have 10 quickbelt slots (maybe thats the real issue here)
08-10-12, 19:21
carbonkink

Yes
yes

Keeping it simple.
08-10-12, 19:28
Forget My Name

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haxxor

Melee shouldn't have AoE as it's against what Melee stands for.

And you know this how? Were you one of the Developers working on the game back in 1999? Or did you know some of them and talk to them, and they told you what the intent of melee was?

You know this is just a video game, right? Just because in your mind Melee shouldn't get aoe doesn't mean it isn't a smart thing to do.

Where are you petitions to remove rocket firing pistols from the game? Why do pistols get AOE, yet Rifles don't?

Goal - Make melee a VIABLE weapon choice to use from ranks 2 - 60, and not just something you LOM over to.

Okay, let me ask you this... We are in a team farming, okay? We are in Regants, and you are using APU AOE, someone else is using Drone AOE, another person is using Heavy Cannon AOE, and I am using melee on single Genetoxic crawler, chasing him around the room. Our ranks are such that you three are sharing exp, but mine is too low to gain any.

What do you think is going through my mind? Oh, how fair and fun this game is! No... it's... I am going to LOM over to Heavy Cannons.

Now I know what the knee jerk off reaction is going to be "Well, I enjoyed leveling as melee, and other people do too!" That is a loaded, false comment. People enjoyed it until, when, rank 25? Then they stop after seeing other people run around and AOE everything. People enjoyed it until rank 30? Then they stop until they realize charging 5 Launcher Cyclopses means either death or 5 minutes waiting to heal?

Just stop it. Melee is complete and utter garbage in Neocron 2.2 as a viable leveling option, and you know it.

Or hey, prove me wrong. I can get my Heavy Cannon Tank to strength 80 in 2 days. How about you roll a melee along with my new heavy tank, and we level together? We don't form a team, we just level together. Let's do this experiment together in Neocron 2.2, okay? Let me see how much fun you have....

Or shit... Just meet me in Regants/El Farid/Fire Caves with any character you have now, LOMed over to melee, and lets farm together. Melee doesn't need AOE right? It levels just fine right? Prove it to me in Neocron 2.2.

Now, I could be 100% wrong in all of this. Maybe I just suck at melee and I don't know the secrets to leveling as one. Perhaps you can persuade me into thinking melee is peachy keen as a leveling weapon?

-edit-

Oh yeah... Raise APU frequency just a tad, or damage, but not both. Need to stay on topic here lol....
08-10-12, 19:44
Drevious

i leveled my first tank ever as melee in nc1.. i would melee down fire mobs for rares near CRP
08-10-12, 20:00
L0KI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drevious

i leveled my first tank ever as melee in nc1.. i would melee down fire mobs for rares near CRP

I'm about to attempt the same thing, just for the challenge.

I have a feeling I'll regret it.
08-10-12, 20:27
Beckard

YES to NC1
08-10-12, 20:39
rune100

What happened to Melee exactly? I know they nerfed the damage and RoF, but whenever I use melee the hits don't register. I doubt KK, back in the days, did that intentionally?

I also think "Melee" armor sounds like a good idea, but it should require so much M-C that H-C users should not be able to equip it or having any base points in H-C would make the armor unusable, if that's even possible.

All weapons should have some form of AoE or it should be possible to level with single target only, without having to spend 100(?) days more than someone with AoE. I LOMed my Rifle spy to Droner here yesterday and leveling is going 10 times faster, if not more.

Also, don't give me the crap about "finding a team". What sort of team would invite a Non-AoE user over another AoE user? I might sound cold now, but I wouldn't. Ever. Unless he paid me 1 million NC.
08-10-12, 22:45
Haxxor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forget My Name

Forget My Name

Shrank the quote to save space. :lol:

I agree with you 100% that as a viable combat class melee is pretty useless in NC2.2

My issue is as a principal hand to hand combat melee shouldn't have projectiles im not saying they shouldn't have AoE completely just if you can find away around that i would support it 100%.

Off the top of my head Electro Shockers are classed as Melee, instead of the way they shock now change the this to a kind of Raygun type attack that attacks your target for most of the damage and the mobs around your target for a less amount.

I am bit anti AoE in general because if all combat classes had AoE 90% of all other non rares wouldnt be used. If the game has got to the point where AoE is the only way to level reasonably then something needs to change

A favourite quote of mine is "Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it."
08-10-12, 23:18
Forget My Name

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drevious

i leveled my first tank ever as melee in nc1.. i would melee down fire mobs for rares near CRP

Those same fire mobs deal much more damage in NC2.2, and will destroy any melee build within 5 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haxxor

Shrank the quote to save space. :lol:

That is fine, I am 5'3" anyway.

Quote:

My issue is as a principal hand to hand combat melee shouldn't have projectiles im not saying they shouldn't have AoE completely just if you can find away around that i would support it 100%.

I apologize for not making my point of view clear.

When I say "Melee AOE" I mean one, or both, of two things; 1) Give melee access to grenades exclusively. 2) Make some melee weapons AOE when they hit.

I didn't mean that melee should get a sword that fires a projectile or something like that.

Quote:

Off the top of my head Electro Shockers are classed as Melee, instead of the way they shock now change the this to a kind of Raygun type attack that attacks your target for most of the damage and the mobs around your target for a less amount.

Ehh... If this was/is true, this is sort of what I want in game. Enemy is 10 meters away, you hit him with an energy weapon, or a mechanical club that fires nails when striking, and enemies within a few meters get hit as well.

Quote:

I am bit anti AoE in general because if all combat classes had AoE 90% of all other non rares wouldnt be used. If the game has got to the point where AoE is the only way to level reasonably then something needs to change

Just because classes have AOE does not mean single target is dead. I use single target MORE than my AOE as a Tank because most of the time a Launcher Cyclops is alone, or I am sniping a Grim for Tech Parts.

Also, when it comes down to PvP, for the most part, single target weapons are always better for the fact that you aren't killing yourself and other teammates.

Quote:

A favourite quote of mine is "Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it.

Yeah, but this quote fails to take into account that while you can enjoy the game dying over and over while getting shit exp as a melee user, you may notice the APU destroying everything in droves and making rank 60 while you are struggling to make rank 25, and you may want a little more fairness in your character choice.
08-10-12, 23:35
Haxxor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forget My Name

When I say "Melee AOE" I mean one, or both, of two things; 1) Give melee access to grenades exclusively.

Only issue with that is with grenades you throw them which makes them a ranged weapon. I mean at a stretch if it was implemented i could learn to accept it as part of the game.

Quote:

Ehh... If this was/is true, this is sort of what I want in game. Enemy is 10 meters away, you hit him with an energy weapon, or a mechanical club that fires nails when striking, and enemies within a few meters get hit as well.

The beggers which use the electroshocker seem to hit you from a slight distance i know this is down coding though. I think making Electroshockers AoE is the way to go hit your main target for X ammount then all other mobs take damage from the electric current depending on how close they are to the main target. Sort of like a chain reaction.

Quote:

Yeah, but this quote fails to take into account that while you can enjoy the game dying over and over while getting shit exp as a melee user, you may notice the APU destroying everything in droves and making rank 60 while you are struggling to make rank 25, and you may want a little more fairness in your character choice.

Agreed 100% my main char back in the day was a Melee Tank miss waving my devil's grace about :(
09-10-12, 00:06
Oxygen

I personally don't think an AOE weapon should get an advantage in level speed compared to a non AOE weapon, there is no reason why an AOE weapon should gain more experience as a non.

Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page