Suggestion that LEers will probably hate

LE and safezones suck but they're there to cover up some faults in neocron design.

If you remove LE before being PvP ready, you're going to be affected by a massive exp/h reduction called random ganking. Losing equipment (and money) at increased rate doesn't help either. Being stuck in mid-levels without money sucks. Those people won't PvP because they're too weak, they'll be avoiding it until they'll cap, assuming they won't cancel subscribtion earlier.

Of course this doesn't apply to players with rich alts/friends, who can kill or scare the ganker, have two ppu buttplugs plus apu to aggro mobs, garage full of vehicles with drivers and can const five slot equipment for ultimate levelling experience.

The end-game of NC is PvP, so keep it end-game and don't penalize others for not being PvP-ready yet.

The other option is to make PvP viable at all levels, but since nc is becoming more and more capped-player oriented, this is prolly impossible. Low lvl's can't just go to PP or sewers anymore to have some fights with other low-lvl reds. You have to be capped these days.

I remember a time when in order to complete epics you HAD to have your LE out, and that is why some of my characters dont have LEs. After ripping them out, leveling became a solo adventure to places where no one goes, just to hide from the world until i became capped.

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

Perhaps my idea of (partially) playing the devil here and getting a debate was pointless, as people just aren't going to move from the trenches they have dug, either because they can't or won't.

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People unfortunately won't change if they've been relying on their carebear enforcer since day one.

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Originally Posted by Apocalypsox

Drib has contributed to NC far more than you ever have Kane. I think we should ban you not being productive :o

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Quoted for truth !

Anyway.. I think (Well, what I really think is that the LE should be removed) players shouldn't be punished for keeping the LE in (like a -% XP reduction) but players should be rewarded for removing it (like a +% XP gain). This way all the carebears are happy without throwing their toys out the pram and quitting and the real players who want to experience NC the way it should be, can (and still have the upper hand to LEd players).

There are loads of possibilities to encourage people to remove LEs and this is just one of them. For example you could stop them from using rares (considering the stories behind rare weapons were all about killing mass amounts of people or something similar) or you could prevent LEd runners from completing epics or changing factions.

Sooo many people have admitted the reason Neptune died was because everyone ran around as LEd players. Yet they still aren't prepared to see it go or even change. How do you know the LE isn't having the same effect (of course on a slower scale) on Terra?

I'm pretty much 100% certain the only reason people don't want the LE removed is so they don't get killed by players. What else could it possibly be? Why are people soo afraid of dying? Don't want to drop a belt? If your excuse is that you're a trader then you should probably stick to either OP zones or TH. There is no reason why you should be in any other zone really. If you do happen to lose a belt, make yourself another item, you're a trader right?
Spec some stealth if you're that bothered about being killed.
If you're worried about PKers then join a clan (it's easy enough) and have some friends sort them out for you. Getting your friends to kill someone (or logging an alt and doing it yourself) is much more satisfying than simply having a carebear chip in your head and standing there loling at them.

With the way NC comes across as a game, the LAST thing I would have expected the game to have was something like an LE (Danger around every corner..?). The idea isn't to force people to pvp, not at all. They can just stand there and die if they please. Encouraging people to join a clan and to support lower lvl players, to pvp at lower lvls (although I don't really think I'd enjoy it at all, others probably would). It would be nice if I could run around a zone and meet a non-LEd person that wasn't a capped pvper, maybe grab some free soul light if I really need it. Also, the only item that's needed for lvling that's expensive is a vehicle. Everything else can be replaced very easily.

I guess it's a waste of time like DJ said trying to convince people the LE is the devil. I find it ironic that people are moaning at players like me to adapt and change to something like 2.2, but I know if we asked them to do the same with the LE they'd be having none of it.

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Originally Posted by Archtemplar

I remember a time when in order to complete epics you HAD to have your LE out, and that is why some of my characters dont have LEs.

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See, I had no problem with that, to the tune of I had figured out how to build a new char, do all the epics, and end with the LE installed (I did BT when kills were required and ended with the LE installed). They changed the rules before I could do the rest on a char I cared about.

let me put this way.

I use to be a le should never be in the game our falls out at like rank 30...

But reasons why I'm against this now.

- Some people truly love pveing in NC its true.
- More chance of people trying out the game staying
- To many grifers now who will pk any low level.
- Even zones made as SafeZones Pkers still come and pk people.
- Most zones suck in NC so a lot of people have to venture out of nc to level. Without a LE some these places over camped and would have pking wars.
- Many players now have more then 1 account or have a anti and pro causing issues for people who want revenge and such on poor people who just want to level
- Tradeskillers are needed. Lot these need OP to help them become greater and better at there trades. Without a LE they can be pked a lot and causing the tradeskiller to rethink there current profession.
- Theres so many bugs and flaws when leveling up it just sucks with out a le.
- Tight leveling areas where you use maybe aoe would cause a lot of accidental pking.

I could go on forever :P sorry for my bad english

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Originally Posted by kane

- Some people truly love pveing in NC its true.

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Removing LE doesn't stop you from PvEing. Doesn't prevent you from killing mobs.

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Originally Posted by kane

- More chance of people trying out the game staying

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Depends completely on the type of player.

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Originally Posted by kane

- To many grifers now who will pk any low level.

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Proof? If everyone was unLEd then each individual player would die less. But if you level an unLEd char among ten LEd, who's going to get PK'd?

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Originally Posted by kane

- Even zones made as SafeZones Pkers still come and pk people.

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Not sure what you're saying there, sorry.

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Originally Posted by kane

- Most zones suck in NC so a lot of people have to venture out of nc to level. Without a LE some these places over camped and would have pking wars.

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Just because people don't have an LE, doesn't mean suddenly every pvper on the server suddenly turns into a newbie PKer and camps lvling zones. PKing wars = PvP...

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Originally Posted by kane

- Many players now have more then 1 account or have a anti and pro causing issues for people who want revenge and such on poor people who just want to level

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I can't understand the point again - sorry.

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Originally Posted by kane

- Tradeskillers are needed. Lot these need OP to help them become greater and better at there trades. Without a LE they can be pked a lot and causing the tradeskiller to rethink there current profession.

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Removing the LE actually helps tradeskillers massively:

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Originally Posted by Obsidian X

[list][*]Now more than ever, the loss of a 4th brainslot is a massive penalty in itself.

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The gain of a 4th brainslot is a massive benefit in itself. LEd players don't get any OP bonus as far as I know. The chance of running into a PKer (let alone an enemy PKer) is really quite low considering the number of OPs available. I highly doubt a trader will rethink their profession because they get PKd...

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Originally Posted by kane

- Theres so many bugs and flaws when leveling up it just sucks with out a le.

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Examples?

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Originally Posted by kane

- Tight leveling areas where you use maybe aoe would cause a lot of accidental pking.

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One word: Team. If people refuse to join a team just run into their aoe and bam, they get red SL and are forced to leave the cave to idle in TH. Or alternatively - be careful.

If people are this worried about getting PKd while lvling or whatever, how the hell are they going to cope when someone kills them in pvp when they are ready? How are you going to cope when you get zerged and ganked at an op war or in general pvp (When you're actually going to drop something important and expensive compared to crappy unimportant lvling items) without standing a chance in hell of surviving? Because that is the exact same concept, being defenseless.
When I first started playing I did get worked up about getting PKd while lvling and I wanted to put my LE back in but it was impossible because I'd passed /30. After the first few times I decided to suck it up and grow a pair and I think it's made me a much more tolerant player because of it. Now I don't give a crap about my SL, I don't care what items I drop in my belt and I don't get frustrated when I'm killed. I suck it up and go back, if I die I get the hint that it just isn't going to happen for me. You will get used to this very quickly.

wow lol half ur points made no sense lol. I like part if everyone takes le does not mean there all the sudden going turn into n00b killers lmao....

thats classic...

I mean most people now kill on sight if they don't lose sl and also theres enough n00b killers who board looking for action as is..

Lets just say me and many more will cancel are accounts if that were to happen of no le's and guess what I just won this fight... kk will never remove le's infact I hear for a few days or something there going make it so anyone can put le back in :D

haha

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Originally Posted by kane

wow lol half ur points made no sense lol. I like part if everyone takes le does not mean there all the sudden going turn into n00b killers lmao....

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I was prepared to let the lauguage barrier slip but if you can't understand what I said then learn some real fucking English. Don't blame your own points being countered with your own plain ignorance.

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Originally Posted by kane

I like part if everyone takes le does not mean there all the sudden going turn into n00b killers

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It's a perfectly valid point, just because I see someone who isn't LEd, doesn't mean I'm going to gank them on sight. This will probably also apply to people who actually stick to the F6 window.

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Originally Posted by kane

I mean most people now kill on sight if they don't lose sl and also theres enough n00b killers who board looking for action as is..

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Stick to lvling caves and you'll be fine, carebear. Who's going to kill a /30 runner in a cave where they lose mass SL? Who says that even when you take your LE out, you should be safe from danger..? Stop being such a pussy.

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Originally Posted by kane

Lets just say me and many more will cancel are accounts if that were to happen of no le's and guess what I just won this fight... kk will never remove le's infact I hear for a few days or something there going make it so anyone can put le back in :D

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Well in that case I'd be more than happy to wave all you carebears off to WoW.

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Originally Posted by kane

and guess what I just won this fight...

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:rolleyes:

I have a question or 2.

How many of you who want the LE removed from the game have less than 10mill credits and access to less than every single rare and high dollar item in the game?

I'm betting 0.

How many understand that there is more than 1 way to play NC? AND that just because you don't play a certain way doesn't mean you have the right to demand the destruction of said play style?

I'm again- Betting 0.

How many who use the term "carebare" regularly, understand that the term is just as derogatory as a racial or sexual slur and requires the same limited mind set to use?

I don't have to bet on this one as you need the possibility of a second option on which to bet....

KK put LE's in the game for a reason. And it wasn't a bad one.

Soooo. Unless an issue effects your gameplay negatively beyond----

"DAMN!!!! There goes a level 30 I can't grief kill then ridicule..."

Shut up.

And PLEASE don't become politicians.

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Originally Posted by Havoc One

I have a question or 2.

How many of you who want the LE removed from the game have less than 10mill credits and access to less than every single rare and high dollar item in the game?

I'm betting 0.

How many understand that there is more than 1 way to play NC? AND that just because you don't play a certain way doesn't mean you have the right to demand the destruction of said play style?

I'm again- Betting 0.

How many who use the term "carebare" regularly, understand that the term is just as derogatory as a racial or sexual slur and requires the same limited mind set to use?

I don't have to bet on this one as you need the possibility of a second option on which to bet....

KK put LE's in the game for a reason. And it wasn't a bad one.

Soooo. Unless an issue effects your gameplay negatively beyond----

"DAMN!!!! There goes a level 30 I can't grief kill then ridicule..."

Shut up.

And PLEASE don't become politicians.

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All these are indeed correct.

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Originally Posted by Havoc One

I have a question or 2.

How many of you who want the LE removed from the game have less than 10mill credits and access to less than every single rare and high dollar item in the game?

I'm betting 0.

How many understand that there is more than 1 way to play NC? AND that just because you don't play a certain way doesn't mean you have the right to demand the destruction of said play style?

I'm again- Betting 0.

How many who use the term "carebare" regularly, understand that the term is just as derogatory as a racial or sexual slur and requires the same limited mind set to use?

I don't have to bet on this one as you need the possibility of a second option on which to bet....

KK put LE's in the game for a reason. And it wasn't a bad one.

Soooo. Unless an issue effects your gameplay negatively beyond----

"DAMN!!!! There goes a level 30 I can't grief kill then ridicule..."

Shut up.

And PLEASE don't become politicians.

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there you go in perfect English :)

Leave the LE as it is!

I see no reason to change it. Other than an annoying fuck i know but...

I dont use the LE on any of my chars simply because even with tradeskillers the penalty is too high.

There is an incentive to take the LE off. Some people dont come here for PVP and we should just accept it imho.

Well... at least make it so LEd ppl cant get WoC.. I fucking hate LEd ppl running around in WoC PAs and playing smart with theire FUCKING WoC!

LEd ppl should NOT be able to get WoC!


The other things i can partly live with - eventhough i still hate when i see ppl above **/50 with theire LE in, but i can live with it - LEd ppl with WoC, i have serious problems living with.. :mad:

The Law Enforcer is fine as it is and we currently do not see any need to change that. Besides of the removal of the damage bug, of course.

There where quite a few LE penalties in NC1 that got removed in the early days of retails.

1. XP was reduced. (As DJ has already said)
2. You needed more skill points and levels to use an item. Say like 25STR if you was non LE'ed to and 27 STR if you was LE'ed. Since the LE takes a brain slot and the reduced XP this penalty was definatly very harsh.
3. You cash reward was reduced, like 20%. This 20% tax was probably called the Reza Tax.

To be honest, I think the LE is fine at the moment. If there is going to be a penalty, make it the cash one.