Nc3!!!!

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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

Expand on Mil base even revamp it. i think it could have a level for a proper training ground/barrack room and then lower down the command center and some nice plush offices or somethin.

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I've been asking for a single NF dojo/training room to be added to MB for years, it wouldn't even be hard to implement.

I've always been intrigued by the fact that the wastelands/non-city areas are safe, despite the fact that there should be near unbearable levels of radiation.

Having a radiation stack while in these areas without say, a quest gained 'implant' or using PA (noob run 'rad suit' to be available), would add to the atmosphere and sense that the wasteland is a dangerous place to be. Weather dependant effects would make the game more immersive too. -Ath/Agl in the rain (slippery ground), -Combat skills in bright sunlight (blinding glare), etc. Leg and/or eye implants and/or PA could reduce these.

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Originally Posted by Howler

- Click the mouse wheel for auto run in the wastes. Then you can just direct which way your running by moving the mouse.

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There is auto-walk (the minus key), though you still have to hold down run to... run. It is useful for glider journeys though; point in the right direction, hit minus and sit back and chat on trade/help.

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

There is auto-walk (the minus key), though you still have to hold down run to... run. It is useful for glider journeys though; point in the right direction, hit minus and sit back and chat on trade/help.

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Press caps lock.

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Originally Posted by Setlec

Doc, there is no gap between the city and the favelas.. I live in Rio and i know what i'm speaking of. it's a unique setup Rio, normally you would see slums in the periphery of the city but Rio has the slums/favelas inside the city itself. it's a peculiar geomorphology where the city was build.

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ooops. i stand corrected. i saw a tv program documentary once about street gangs and stuff round the world. there was one in south america where two gangs had control of the slums or what ever and the dividing line was a big 6 lane highway. it acted as a kind of border. i thought that was Rio. sorry my bad. must have been some place else.

bad analogy but the idea i think would still work :)

putting it in to a clearer context having the links between plaza 2 and 3 leading in to p1. p2 could be bd and p3 crahn but have the p1 as a neutral zone free of guards/copbots. that serves as the border where the trading and deals can happen and the fun starts. stick crahn in there, no one cares about crahn :)

edit: interesting idea dj but the cynic in me says it wouldnt work for too many reasons, not least of which that no nc player really knows what sunlight is and would be scared by it :D

doc, i live in Rio de Janeiro since 2k3, i know more than the Ross Kemp documentary shows.

http://www.bonato.cc/wp-content/uplo.../favelasrj.jpg this picture is a bit old and not updated but it shows the main favelas of Rio.

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Originally Posted by Setlec

doc, i live in Rio de Janeiro since 2k3, i know more than the Ross Kemp documentary shows.

http://www.bonato.cc/wp-content/uplo.../favelasrj.jpg this picture is a bit old and not updated but it shows the main favelas of Rio.

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im not argueuing and yes it was probably ross kemp ;) i didnt know if you would know who he was setlec :)

thanks for the geography lesson tho ;)

I walked through the city and often found it difficult to know where a favela started and ended. e.g the favelas surrounding Santa Teresa.

sweets

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

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I've always been intrigued by the fact that the wastelands/non-city areas are safe, despite the fact that there should be near unbearable levels of radiation.

Having a radiation stack while in these areas without say, a quest gained 'implant' or using PA (noob run 'rad suit' to be available), would add to the atmosphere and sense that the wasteland is a dangerous place to be. Weather dependant effects would make the game more immersive too. -Ath/Agl in the rain (slippery ground), -Combat skills in bright sunlight (blinding glare), etc. Leg and/or eye implants and/or PA could reduce these.
...

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NC1 beta there was a constant radiation stack in the wastelands - never made it to retail though, shame really.

My thoughts for NC3:

- Yes, keep the atmosphere; you nailed it with NC. Also, keep the containers. I agree; they're fun.

- I like the scattered factions but honestly it needs a guaranteed large amount of players to work and be interesting, which can be a bummer.

Red vs Blue would still work if only 8 people are on, for example, but it's not as interesting.

If alliances do stay the same (scattered), please make COPBOTs and law reasonable in the game. As is, COPBOTs do as much damage to you as the Aggressor Captains did to you when you were leveling off of them. That's not going to scare anyone into 'being good'. It's really stupid when a dork in WOC power-armor opens fire on your research spy in the middle of the city when COPBOTs are in line of sight, or sound range, or both -- and the runner attacking you is in your faction. A spy can always stealth away but it's still dumb.

- Speaking of which, don't make anything like WOC in NC3, and I would even go as far to say don't make anything like the Mr. Jones quests either.

Why?

Firstly the two things both ruin the atmosphere of the game. Generepping to your first apartment and finding a "starter guide" at the spawn .. in your apartment .. breaks the mood a bit. They also break the mood, of course, by how they look. No one really wanted to see an old-fashioned AK-47 in a futuristic cyberpunk game. NO ONE DID. The photoshopped WOC armors, I would argue, ruin the mood as well. The normal gray metal power-armors, and the camo tank armor look the most realistic and fitting for the setting.

Secondly the non-drop feature of the Mr. Jones and WOC items make a HUGE window of items in the game obsolete. For example once you get your free quad, why the hell would you want to ever risk using another 1-man vehicle like the 1-man bikes? The quad you'll have forever so getting those other vehicles is just a risky waste of money. Similarly why hunt for rares if you can use an AK? That's safer. Similarly, the first time I did the 'Engineer' Mr. Jones quest and got a TL-90 CST tool, I was like, whoa, awesome! Now that I think about it though, you might as well just remove the TL-90 and lower CST tools from the shops now. No one's going to buy them if they can get a non-drop one for free.

Thirdly the whole over-capping thing is just masochism.

- One more thing: For faction epic rewards, you have to make up your mind of whether ANYONE can use it, or only faction members can use it. It's not good to have both. For example the CA power-armor can only be worn if you're CityAdmin, yet anyone can go grab a N.E.X.T. Reveler and never buy another vehicle (for the most part) (points to previous issue). It should be one way or the other. Personally, I would prefer if you can only use your faction epic item if you are currently in that faction, so it doesn't seem like everyone's making a joke out of the rewards.

Great post Izeo. I agree to all but maybe woc and woc armor.
I think it's ok to have something like WoC if it's not a must have and only very few have it. Unfortunately in Neocron WoC was always the opposite.

I also think it's okay to have something like WoC armor as high level items, since NC' s still playing in the future and some futuristic items would fit in i think.
As for AK I also think it's stupid to have that as a high level item, though it would be ok as a noob item, like the streed model rifles everyone used as noob back in 2002.

you do know woc drops just like rares right?

this has been discussed to death, and while yes, woc as it used to be was utterly crap, but at this moment (and for the past 4 years at least), the only class that needs woc is the PE. if you see a spy running around in a woc pa, just go after him because he will be slow as hell and easy to kill (unless it's neally).

and a dissy is just as effective as an ak, though you are right that the AK is cheaper than a dissy (though you can still lose them if they are not in the safeslot). the problem with an AK is that the ammo is so incredibly heavy that it can only be used in either opwars with a gogo nearby, or in p2 on a zoneline. you well never see people use an AK in pve (unless they have no other weapon).

About the factions, I agree that specific factions with sympathies like they are implemented in the game right now would work way better with a sufficiently large population, and in that case there should be more of a penalty for "being bad".

I however don't agree with implementing a blue vs red scenario in a smaller population. I would recommend instead a clan vs clan scenario, where if you are part of a different clan, you are automatically enemies. You can still make alliances between clans, but at least this would solve the current problem of having to choose a faction based on who you want to kill, instead of who you care to belong to.

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Originally Posted by Biglines

you do know woc drops just like rares right?

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I heard they were non-drop, but I guess this is wrong, lol, whoops. Also, sorry that it's been discussed a lot.. I've been away for so long, (my bad)

I would prefer something a bit less grand for endgame capped player quests though, but not sure exactly what.

Even though this may have been due to technology limitations, one thing I loved about Neocron 1 was there wasn't much difference visually between players, status-wise. In fantasy games, the "visual status difference" is most of the time, huge. Like, you'll start off wearing a dirty white cloth shirt and a dagger, and a capped player might walk by who's got different glowing auras, spiky demonic shoulderpads, crystal glowing breastplate, battle axe that's burning in purple fire -- whatever -- I always found that to be a bad thing for players as a whole because it makes every player, individually, want to look more awesome than everyone else.

In NC1, it was either "You look like a citizen in a cyberpunk-themed game" or "You look decently cool with cyberpunk powerarmor on" and that was it. I actually like that notion.

THAT SAID, for NC3, would allowing us to see equipped armor on our players be cool? Definitely. My point on this tangent is, if we will be able to see equipped armor on players, don't make the low levels look "laughably poor" and the capped players look "omgawd so awesome". No, I don't want everyone to look the same - just don't have a huge visual gap.

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It was a stretch and, it isn't my biggest issue with WoC, but, it's a small reason I didn't like it.

in nc1 when we all started, (well alot of us) as an /02 and some guy is in the rat cellar with his rifle with a massive swirly on it showin his friend the weapon before a wanna be pker comes down and gets blown away you cant help but go omgaaaaaawd! i couldnt. :)

Heeee...

I remember being down the aggies and seeing someone with a swirly, a bunch of us were all 'dude, what's that?!'.

As cool as the rare-swirly was as awkward was it always to see it... i would wish for a better solution in NC3 to designate rare weapons to the bystanders...

Maybe place it above the head of the player.

I'd probably get rid of it entirely. With perhaps a slightly different model for the rare versions.

I would hope that in nc3 a rare weapon would actually look different from other weapons, instead of simply reusing the same model over and over again for different weapons.

edit: lol didnt see dj's post

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

I'd probably get rid of it entirely. With perhaps a slightly different model for the rare versions.

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+

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Originally Posted by Biglines

I would hope that in nc3 a rare weapon would actually look different from other weapons, instead of simply reusing the same model over and over again for different weapons.

edit: lol didnt see dj's post

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That just uses more system resources, so you can see why they had to use the same models.

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Originally Posted by LiL T

That just uses more system resources, so you can see why they had to use the same models.

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oh ofc, and it's a lot cheaper to produce as well. I was talking about nc3 though, not nc1/2

Speaking of rares, I'd like them to place a lot more rares inside of hacknet and make it a challenge to acquire them, make hacknet more useful .

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Originally Posted by Izeo

I heard they were non-drop, but I guess this is wrong, lol, whoops. Also, sorry that it's been discussed a lot.. I've been away for so long, (my bad)

I would prefer something a bit less grand for endgame capped player quests though, but not sure exactly what.

Even though this may have been due to technology limitations, one thing I loved about Neocron 1 was there wasn't much difference visually between players, status-wise. In fantasy games, the "visual status difference" is most of the time, huge. Like, you'll start off wearing a dirty white cloth shirt and a dagger, and a capped player might walk by who's got different glowing auras, spiky demonic shoulderpads, crystal glowing breastplate, battle axe that's burning in purple fire -- whatever -- I always found that to be a bad thing for players as a whole because it makes every player, individually, want to look more awesome than everyone else.

In NC1, it was either "You look like a citizen in a cyberpunk-themed game" or "You look decently cool with cyberpunk powerarmor on" and that was it. I actually like that notion.

THAT SAID, for NC3, would allowing us to see equipped armor on our players be cool? Definitely. My point on this tangent is, if we will be able to see equipped armor on players, don't make the low levels look "laughably poor" and the capped players look "omgawd so awesome". No, I don't want everyone to look the same - just don't have a huge visual gap.

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It was a stretch and, it isn't my biggest issue with WoC, but, it's a small reason I didn't like it.

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I pretty much agree. I'd like it if the non-PA armor was visible when you wear it.

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Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin

As cool as the rare-swirly was as awkward was it always to see it... i would wish for a better solution in NC3 to designate rare weapons to the bystanders...

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I like the swirly =c

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Originally Posted by Izeo

Even though this may have been due to technology limitations, one thing I loved about Neocron 1 was there wasn't much difference visually between players, status-wise. In fantasy games, the "visual status difference" is most of the time, huge. Like, you'll start off wearing a dirty white cloth shirt and a dagger, and a capped player might walk by who's got different glowing auras, spiky demonic shoulderpads, crystal glowing breastplate, battle axe that's burning in purple fire -- whatever -- I always found that to be a bad thing for players as a whole because it makes every player, individually, want to look more awesome than everyone else.

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This is in part a big influence on the part of WoW.

Even Everquest didn't have the same visual aspect. DnD was largely left to the imagination, with any visual side of things very limited, being secondary to performance.

The swirly is a similar thing. A subtle but distinct model (or even texture) difference would retain the atmospheric nuances without the blatant indication of the current system.

while I agree WoW popularized it, games like diablo and dungeon siege already introduced the concept of making very good armour also have very distinct visual looks, in order to wow others as well as making it more attractive as a goal to gather them.

games like knights online and others before WoW also already had the same system, as does every free to play since then.

but it is true that the fact WoW did it too, makes it almost impossible for a gamedesigner to tell an investor why he wouldn't want that.

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Originally Posted by Biglines

but it is true that the fact WoW did it too, makes it almost impossible for a gamedesigner to tell an investor why he wouldn't want that.

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Yea, I agree; difficult. :(

As I support a smaller gap of status, I also support a smaller gap of "character skill," and am more in favor of "player skill". This means, I would like it (in general, not necessarily for Neocron) if a skilled "rank 20" could beat a lesser-skilled "rank 40". PlanetSide was this way, and that was one thing I appreciated about it. So basically, yes I do like character skill advancement, but it shouldn't overpower the actual player's skill so much.

That one's hard to get support for as well, because it's easy to think, "Well why would you want that? So you're saying some n00b should be able to beat me who's been playing for two years?" Well, yes.

(I had someone give me that exact quoted argument once, when talking about my view on this, years ago, in another sci-fi shooter MMO.)

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Originally Posted by Izeo

Yea, I agree; difficult. :(

As I support a smaller gap of status, I also support a smaller gap of "character skill," and am more in favor of "player skill". This means, I would like it (in general, not necessarily for Neocron) if a skilled "rank 20" could beat a lesser-skilled "rank 40". PlanetSide was this way, and that was one thing I appreciated about it. So basically, yes I do like character skill advancement, but it shouldn't overpower the actual player's skill so much.

That one's hard to get support for as well, because it's easy to think, "Well why would you want that? So you're saying some n00b should be able to beat me who's been playing for two years?" Well, yes.

(I had someone give me that exact quoted argument once, when talking about my view on this, years ago, in another sci-fi shooter MMO.)

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I agree to an extent. The problem is that it needs to be balanced with making it seem like skill points actually doing something.

lol just remembered make wastelands have radiations lvls, higher when being afar of TH, TG canyon, MB and NC. and lower when closer... and make armors decay to those radiations!!!

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Originally Posted by Setlec

lol just remembered make wastelands have radiations lvls, higher when being afar of TH, TG canyon, MB and NC. and lower when closer... and make armors decay to those radiations!!!

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what gameplay advantage would this have except for chasing everyone out of the wastelands and into the cities? hell, make p2 radioactive and make everyone fight in the wastelands imho :p

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

This is in part a big influence on the part of WoW.

Even Everquest didn't have the same visual aspect. DnD was largely left to the imagination, with any visual side of things very limited, being secondary to performance.

The swirly is a similar thing. A subtle but distinct model (or even texture) difference would retain the atmospheric nuances without the blatant indication of the current system.

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Wow DJ, 11,000 posts!

It's actually more. A bunch got cut off with a forum rework several years ago.