Neocron Reloaded

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Originally Posted by Pestilence

I'd say: Remove them! That would make Neocron a lot more accessible and fun to play. Tbh, I think Neocron became to confusing for newer players with the latest updates, which is a bad thing. Neocron 1 did so much right, because even "normal" players without too many multitasking capabilities could get into it. The new armors with new resists, the new implant bonuses, the many ppu modules, the nanites...it's just too much for non-hardcore players to keep pace with the real guys. In NC1, you still had an advantage as a hardcore player, but it was reasonable. At the moment, it's not (in my opinion).

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Although there were good changes in 2.3 as well, i agree with this. Some stuff just doesn' t make sense and is unnecessary complicated, like the 3 armor zones, retarded implants and most of the nanites for example.

But please don't make Neocron child friendly, i.e. lower SI or a PvP "switch".
The only thing that would make sense in that direction, would be to make all of Plaza and Via safezones again. If we have Safezones in the game we can at least use them to make the inner City of Neocron more safe for noobs and traders. It's much cooler to have the population split over those sectors instead of everyone hanging around at p1 and to use the pp1/p3 sync for zonewhoring makes more sense as well.

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Originally Posted by gamefreak

Although there were good changes in 2.3 as well, i agree with this. Some stuff just doesn' t make sense and is unnecessary complicated, like the 3 armor zones, retarded implants and most of the nanites for example.

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yup all changes were bad..... made most stuff worthless/useless

and really forced min maxing aka cookie cutter builds.

great innovation bad implementation, nanites are pretty much worthless in most peoples eyes and overly complicated (waaaay to many versions)

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Originally Posted by gamefreak

Although there were good changes in 2.3 as well, i agree with this. Some stuff just doesn' t make sense and is unnecessary complicated, like the 3 armor zones, retarded implants and most of the nanites for example.

But please don't make Neocron child friendly, i.e. lower SI or a PvP "switch".
The only thing that would make sense in that direction, would be to make all of Plaza and Via safezones again. If we have Safezones in the game we can at least use them to make the inner City of Neocron more safe for noobs and traders. It's much cooler to have the population split over those sectors instead of everyone hanging around at p1 and to use the pp1/p3 sync for zonewhoring makes more sense as well.

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I wouldn't call it child friendly - i'd call it everyone friendly, since the more accessible the game is, the more people play it.

However, NC isn't for kids, that i agree.

The SI is a feature that stops you in your place most of the time where you have to wait minutes before doing anything at all.

I think it has alot of room for improvement and shouldn't be removed from the game, but carefully balanced so that it still works like intended (prevent the op fight constant respawn, GR tourism, etc) but at the same time is quick enough if you are doing quests, leveling, or just visiting places.

I see the PVP "divide" as a way to appeal players of all ends - those that are pro-PVE, pro-PVP, and those that like both styles.

As long as it's crafted in a way that doesn't really split the game in two, but feels like a natural progression, then it works.

Once your character has evolved and becomes strong enough to go to war and is versatile enough, then it's the next step of the game.

Anyways, what's important is how NC:R is going to bring new players in. I think that logically Nukklear will want to turn a profit on NC, so if mistakes were made in the past that led players out, they should be revised and tweaked that so this time the players stay and even bring more people in.

Understanding all those causes is an important step to avoid the same fate that NC2 had.

There's a difference, as has already been mentioned in this thread, between complex/complicated and confusing.

While the actual values and configuration of the armour items needs work, I don't see how the three armour zones is confusing (or even complicated). If anything it adds a tactical choice and depth to character construction.

I also don't see how a PvP switch, instancing and changing the LE would help the game, especially it's atmosphere and style.

Part of what makes NC is the tension integral to it's game-play. Remove that and it becomes no different than any other game.
GR camping is lame, 'ganking' is lame, but I never complain about it if it happens to me. I took the risk and I accept any consequences.
If I'm in full fire armour out in the canyons with a weapon with the wrong ammo mod for PvP and half over-loaded and I get killed by another runner, I have no reason to moan about it. Same as if I'm caught unbuffed on my PE in a non-safe-zone.

If you don't want that, then keep the LE in. The price you pay for that security is the effects of being LEed.
If you don't want to, then that's the reasons why you find a clan or a group of people to support you and each other.

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

There's a difference, as has already been mentioned in this thread, between complex/complicated and confusing.

While the actual values and configuration of the armour items needs work, I don't see how the three armour zones is confusing (or even complicated). If anything it adds a tactical choice and depth to character construction.

I also don't see how a PvP switch, instancing and changing the LE would help the game, especially it's atmosphere and style.

Part of what makes NC is the tension integral to it's game-play. Remove that and it becomes no different than any other game.
GR camping is lame, 'ganking' is lame, but I never complain about it if it happens to me. I took the risk and I accept any consequences.
If I'm in full fire armour out in the canyons with a weapon with the wrong ammo mod for PvP and half over-loaded and I get killed by another runner, I have no reason to moan about it. Same as if I'm caught unbuffed on my PE in a non-safe-zone.

If you don't want that, then keep the LE in. The price you pay for that security is the effects of being LEed.
If you don't want to, then that's the reasons why you find a clan or a group of people to support you and each other.

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Well, i'm not here trying to force a path i think is right for NC. I'm suggesting possible scenarios with some arguments that i think validate them.

Finding the right balance between the gameplay styles of NC is key in making NC:R work, and i guess that's what we players should aim for.

We that are still here have learned to love NC and all it's quirks and features, but the truth is: if it was working, populations would still be high and new people would still be coming in.

And i believe that it's more of a gameplay issue than anything. So as a fan, i'm trying to contribute to finding out why it went wrong and how to change that. Not that anyone asked me anything. It's just a fan thing. :D

Perhaps we are looking at the wrong picture here, discussing LE's, PVP and other issues, but at least we are discussing it.

I think that is some kind of progress. :)

In my opinion, you take NC1, you add customisable apartment some mobs, maybe hacknet and you have a good game.

Oh, and change WOC weapons. I can't understand why an AK47 is more powerful than an energic weapon. We are in 28th century, not 20th.

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Originally Posted by Volca

Oh, and change WOC weapons. I can't understand why an AK47 is more powerful than an energic weapon. We are in 28th century, not 20th.

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because kinetic energy is much harder to absorb than both heat and light. A bit of semi-superconductor and a laserbeam can be shrugged off for hours.

read the lore about woc weapons tbh. Gameplay wise WoC can be discussed all you want, but lore wise it's all consistent.

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Originally Posted by Jaeon

I wouldn't call it child friendly - i'd call it everyone friendly, since the more accessible the game is, the more people play it.

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This is a fallacy, the point of a niche game like neocron is that it serves a particular interest much better than most other games. Most people that want to play neocron are not interested in "accessible" games like WoW or LoL. While I have no problem with making the game more usable and understandable, cutting out core aspects to please "more" people, will also make the game less attractive for a lot of other people.

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Originally Posted by Jaeon

And i believe that it's more of a gameplay issue than anything. So as a fan, i'm trying to contribute to finding out why it went wrong and how to change that. Not that anyone asked me anything. It's just a fan thing. :D

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Please don't get me wrong. The following isn't meant as a "you're a noob anyways" bash, since I don't know for sure.

Looking at your forum join date suggests that you didn't play NC when it was at it's best. If you started playing at that time you sadly started when things were bad already population wise. A lot of good players and clans had long left the game and most of them left because they disliked the more "streamlined" faction system (leaving us in fact with just two sides to choose from), the massive netcode problems and the growing problem of cheats, hacks, exploits and bugs.

Actually the number of people going because they found the game to be a gankfest or not beginner friendly allways was considerably small in absolute numbers and in relation to those leaving for aforemenioned reasons. Of course when there's just 40 people left playing 4 or 5 leaving has a bigger impact than when the servers are packed with 400+ people running around. And a load of people starting every day. Same goes for gankers: When there's only 40 people left a handfull of cheaters/hackers/gankers has a really HUGE impact. But deducing a gameplay problem from it is far fetched.

If there is a problem with NC's Gameplay then it's the fact that it is highly dependant on the number of active players on a server. Below about 150 people online things simply start to collapse. But this is a problem all MMOs that I'd consider good MMOs share, which are those that to a big extend encourage in some parts even force you to team up with other players. MMO's shouldn't be designed towards loners, thus I wouldn't change the Gameplay even though it doesn't work out with low pops.

And even if making the Gameplay more loner friendly (and most suggestions you and other's made to protect people from being shot at ultimately are only needed if you plan to be playing alone) would bring in more players the only one winning from it is the developer/publisher as he gets more money. But what's the benefit for other player's/Clans if half the population simply does things on their own and just for their own good? All we get is more people occupying level spots and maybe some more victims for "ganking".

There actually is a pretty short list of things that really need to be achieved by NC:R to get it to work in descending priority:

• Sort out the Cheats/Hacks/Exploits
• Sort out the Netcode
• Return to NC1's faction system

Anything else is object to discussion but honestly doesn't matter much anymore if those three points are completed. You can allways argue about details of the balancing. But balancing in MMOs never is a finished job. If anything at all I've learned that one in the past ten years of playing MMOs. Also Balance allways is among the top three discussion topics (the other two being cheaters and gankers) but most times it's not even among the top ten reasons of people to leave.

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because kinetic energy is much harder to absorb than both heat and light

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These are false justifications. This is a scientific approach. Sometimes it's a good idea to justify a game mechanic but I think players who want to play cyberpunk game want to use futuristics weapons and not AK47.

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Originally Posted by Volca

... but I think players who want to play cyberpunk game want to use futuristics weapons and not AK47.

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Luckily you are free to do so in NC. There's a whole lot of energy weapons to choose from. And all of them are viable. It's not like the AK 47 is a guaranteed kill and thus you shall not use any other weapon.

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Originally Posted by Volca

These are false justifications. This is a scientific approach. Sometimes it's a good idea to justify a game mechanic but I think players who want to play cyberpunk game want to use futuristics weapons and not AK47.

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it's a valid justification to your implication that laser/plasma weapons were somehow more powerful than ballistic weapons.

Also, in cyberpunk ballistic weapons are actually quite popular, especially in a post apocalyptic world. If this were star trek online, I would agree with you. But this isn't science fiction, it's post-apocalyptic/cyberpunk. And an AK style weapon is almost exactly the same as about almost every single low-tech weapon in the game. Knowing the reasons for the popularity of the AK, I would not in the least be surprised to see them in the future in actual real life.

And I repeat, read the lore, the AK makes sense in neocron's story.

Perfect sense, recycled technology post war. Often thought they should introduce a true salvage skill of finding unique components to combine into low tech weapons, rather than "rare" parts which should form the high tech weapons.

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Originally Posted by Riddle

Perfect sense, recycled technology post war. Often thought they should introduce a true salvage skill of finding unique components to combine into low tech weapons, rather than "rare" parts which should form the high tech weapons.

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Seems relevant to me.


As for the drugs comment - yeah I agree with that Biglines but what about limiting drug use to say one or two drugs. Maximum amount you can take to get bonuses i mean. Perhaps if you take more than 2 then you get the negative health tick but no positive effect?

Agreed on the ppu outhealing the drugs thing for sure but to be fair PPUs can out heal gun damage as it is so this isnt something that would necessarily be altered without a complete change in the way the ppu class works.

My suggested changes were posted with solo pvp in mind or the city fights as opposed to op fights. I think if people want to run high end characters constantly then they should have to pay something moneywise. It makes sense to open up the roleplay/trade between factions. You can give the drugs to Black Dragon and even invent a whole new line for Protopharma. Give 2 factions something everyone at top end needs or wants.

Make Next vehicles 100x better than they are currently and give FA/Mercs/TG a bonus to being in their faction zones and you give people a reason to be different factions.

We need stockx to work too (relate it to OPs ownership and make it work in such a way that the lower level you are physically you get a cash bonus as well - give the noobs some starter cash to get them into the game and most importantly get them hooked).

Thats all i can think of for now.

Oh and hire me, i work for coffee and biscuits.

p.s nannites and hacknet etc and the steep learning curve all made nc great. If you make it too stripped down and boring then people will come and play it and get bored and leave. The key to keeping players playing is to give them something new to learn.

wow is successful because theyre on like their third add on now? possibly even 4th i dont know. But anyway NC needs a regular stream of content from dedicated writers imo.

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it's a valid justification to your implication that laser/plasma weapons were somehow more powerful than ballistic weapons.

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No, I was talking about AK. I'm OK with ballistic weapons. I would have prefered ballistic weapons that don't come from 20th century.