Neocron Reloaded

Well for me CMs claiming control over who levels in the spots near the MB is within Story and RP to the same extend as TGs claiming control over spots in the canyons or any clan for spots around the OPs it controls. If you were of enemy faction you had to fight for your opportunity to level (which only is doable as a clan, MMOs shouldn't be made for loners in my view). If you were of neutral faction you had to come to agreements. Each faction (in NC's best time) had at least one hardcore PvP Clan that (most times thanks to having at least RPing Clanleaders) protected their fellow faction members while leveling. Each Clan took care of it's newbies. Killing enemy faction's runners on sight is playing within the story and RP limits of the game. Remove the openess in this regard from neocron and you might aswell stop working on it alltogether, because as was said before it is big part of what neocron is.

The runaway of players initially was caused by how long the NC update did take, then by the changes made with NC 2 (making it a paid update, changing the faction system [WORST idea ever], item wipe) aswell as it's bugs, which was when the first big chunk of players left more or less for good.

I tend to argue that regarding ganking things started to go bad because so many people left beforehand and not the other way around. When we had waiting lines and crashing servers due to overpopulation the real hardcore gankers were a wellknown handfull of people that got chased over the whole map after word got around where exactly they are. It was part of the game and big part of the fun.

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

that all said, i love killing people in the cave and then getting back to my levelling.

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me too. the synchz started it. we finished ;)

It's not an easy thing to balance.

Neocron PVP is a big part of this game, but not the only part.

To cyberpunk fans it's the only MMO game that truly delivers that feel and mood. And probably alot of those fans want to enjoy the cyberpunk experience but are not that keen on PVP (...yet!). in that regard:

For everyone:

- A special extra slot just for the LE (near the heart). When taken out after level 30, slot becomes grey / closed. If you are using it, you can't participate in PVP unless it's in neofrag - so you can train if you wish.

- LE'd players can only join teams of people with LE, and XP gain is less than if it's taken out.

For those that wish to PVP, fight over resources and who gets to level:

Create PVP enabled dungeons, areas and outposts just for clans to fight over. These dungeons would have certain rewards and XP gains higher then usual, so joining a clan and teamworking would be rewarded.

PVP areas are blocked to LE'd players - as in your chip takes control and you get a message "NCPD Auto-Control: Illegal Area!" Then you get a zap and an automatic countdown for teleporting to Neocron City.

As LE'd players you only have access to 1/2 of the map, and once you take it out, others areas of the map (PVP enabled) become unblocked and available. (this method would prevent alot of problems by having LE'd players going to PVP areas - like LE'd PPU's that couldn't be killed, frustration with trollings and tauntings, etc)

So, give players the option to enjoy the game safely if so they choose, but encourage them to go for PVP by enticing them with new areas and bigger rewards such as items and XP.

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Originally Posted by Jaeon

It's not an easy thing to balance.

Neocron PVP is a big part of this game, but not the only part.

To cyberpunk fans it's the only MMO game that truly delivers that feel and mood. And probably alot of those fans want to enjoy the cyberpunk experience but are not that keen on PVP (...yet!). in that regard:

For everyone:

- A special extra slot just for the LE (near the heart). When taken out after level 30, slot becomes grey / closed. If you are using it, you can't participate in PVP unless it's in neofrag - so you can train if you wish.

- LE'd players can only join teams of people with LE, and XP gain is less than if it's taken out.

For those that wish to PVP, fight over resources and who gets to level:

Create PVP enabled dungeons, areas and outposts just for clans to fight over. These dungeons would have certain rewards and XP gains higher then usual, so joining a clan and teamworking would be rewarded.

PVP areas are blocked to LE'd players - as in your chip takes control and you get a message "NCPD Auto-Control: Illegal Area!" Then you get a zap and an automatic countdown for teleporting to Neocron City.

As LE'd players you only have access to 1/2 of the map, and once you take it out, others areas of the map (PVP enabled) become unblocked and available. (this method would prevent alot of problems by having LE'd players going to PVP areas - like LE'd PPU's that couldn't be killed, frustration with trollings and tauntings, etc)

So, give players the option to enjoy the game safely if so they choose, but encourage them to go for PVP by enticing them with new areas and bigger rewards such as items and XP.

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I guess thats something for NC3 to discuss but not Reloaded. Can't imagine that they gonna revamp that system largely, maybe the additional slot.

And while being a game with sync-lines i always enjoyed the "openness" of the game, at least in the wastes from zones to ops to caves - it was always up to the player where and when you kill or not. If you where hellbent you'd even kill them nooblings in the cave.
I'd want to keep it that way, the problem of LE'd runners in the middle of fights is severe but i think there must be better solutions. You could deactivate all LE'S in the zone once the OP is contested for example.

Also I think the Soullight and Symp-system can be a very effective tool to regulate the ganking. One USP of NC, that most likely appealed only to the tards out there, was the fact that being an arse was legit by the game if you decide so. There where simply no effective consequences.
And here we should work on improvements imho.

I know that there are ways to exploit the system in its current state but i hope that this can be fixed. That way penalties could be implemented and ganking restricted naturally rather then patronizing the players.

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Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin

...I'd want to keep it that way, the problem of LE'd runners in the middle of fights is severe but i think there must be better solutions. You could deactivate all LE'S in the zone once the OP is contested for example.

Also I think the Soullight and Symp-system can be a very effective tool to regulate the ganking. One USP of NC, that most likely appealed only to the tards out there, was the fact that being an arse was legit by the game if you decide so. There where simply no effective consequences.
And here we should work on improvements imho.

I know that there are ways to exploit the system in its current state but i hope that this can be fixed. That way penalties could be implemented and ganking restricted naturally rather then patronizing the players.

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Agreed.

If a player wishes to be an arse, it's his choice, but severe penalties should come from it, by use of SL and Sympathy systems.

Although what i meant when i proposed area restrictions was a way to avoid problems between PVP'ers and non PVP'ers.

In a way, it's like going to the ghetto. The system naturally prevents you from entering if you have a chip in.

It's your choice to keep it in or not, so you *still* have the option of going to the ghetto, but if you do, you know you can get killed and robbed. So it's always your choice and not a choice made for you.

But then you still have the problem with LE'd players taunting and harassing others simply because they can't be killed, as well as interfering in fights.

Imagine a scenario outside the city on a simple open PVP ground. Doesn't make sense that some can be killed and some can't. If the area is PVP, then only PVP enabled players can be there.

Also, disabling the LE temporarily could be prone to abuse, especially if NC:R uses the sector division system as is. Edge whoring, etc.

Consider the taking of the LE out as an act of: "ok, i'm no longer a noob, i wish to risk a bit more and discover new dangerous places."

Otherwise if you are allowed to go to the most dangerous and rewarding zones but can't be killed by other players, that's like God mode...

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Originally Posted by Jaeon

But then you still have the problem with LE'd players taunting and harassing others simply because they can't be killed, as well as interfering in fights.

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Well, most effective weapon against this is ignorance. Put them on your ignore list and the chat is quite, and for the interference of battles, well thats why the chip is deactivated during opfights.

As for caves and open street brawls... well here we reach the point where the concept-inherent flaw shows openly: bringing two contradicting concepts together. There is basically no real way to unite PVP-players and Non-PvP-players on the same level without collision.

What comes to my mind, but will probably not make it into NC:R :
If enough PvPers have gathered in one zone they can cause a change in the rule-set for the sector, causing it to fall into a "marshal law"-status, deactivating the LE so they have to run.
The "intruders" would have to conquer the sector by some means if the have superiority by number, granting the LEs enough time to get away should it become increasingly evident that the sector is going to fall into the marshal law status but would also prevent that one or two gankers clean up the place with no effort. Also i think this could add some sort of depth and complexity (maybe).
Marshal Law only applies for LEed runners ofc.

I know, i know, removing the LE completely would be the easiest way but thats bull, NC is not Battlefield or any other arcade shooter and it must not become one.

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Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin

As for caves and open street brawls... well here we reach the point where the concept-inherent flaw shows openly: bringing two contradicting concepts together. There is basically no real way to unite PVP-players and Non-PvP-players on the same level without collision.

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There is!

caves/dungeons + street areas would be divided into secure and non-secure.

Streets / city sectors that are like ghettos (non-secure) become inaccessible for LE'd players. This would create a necessity of trading / requesting for items, hence, it would create player dependencies (a positive thing, coherent with NC concept). Or, if you are bold enough, incite you to remove the LE and go there yourself.

Dungeons / caves where PVP is disabled could be instanced for individual or teams, to avoid overcrowding without a viable solution like fighting over who gets to stay or not.

Dungeons / caves where PVP is enabled are non instanced and are forbidden to LE'd players, which would be in tune with the kind of rush PVP players usually seek.

This would avoid frustration for both types of players and provide a continuous experience throughout the game.

Like someone said cleverly in a recent thread, you don't want players leaving the computer or feeling frustrated because they reach an impass on their progress. That's why the Synaptic Impairment and Drug Haze features of the game should be revised as well.

That literally drives people away to do other things, which leads to people getting bored and frustrated, and leaving / quitting the game.

As much as any hardcore gamer doesn't care about this, he should, since if the game is empty and there aren't players injecting money into the game, everything stops - patches, updates, new content... exactly what happened to NC2 due to lack of funds, caused by the desertion of players. (i'm assuming here, but i also assume that if NC was turning a profit, patches and content and upgrades would of been a reality)

A game is profitable until it ceases to be, and when that happens it's on the path for termination.

Not saying anything new here, we all know what happened... just rambling a bit, but hey, perhaps this time things CAN be different and Neocron can become the hit that it started to be, but then didn't.

I don't like instancing caves or sectors in any form.
And never had trouble with SI, dunno about Drug Haze, havn't played PE yet or with drug setup.

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A DEMO IS AVAILABLE TODAY SHOWING THE POTENTIAL OF neocron RELOADED on Unity.

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maybe I am blind or s.th. ...
but where do I find this demo?
like to try it out.
:)

Synaptic impairment is good in NC because it gives people who rage chance to calm down after dying. It also stops endless resupplies of troops on a four player server during op fights.

It was (if i remember) introduced to stop people just respawning over and over at op fights and thus making some "end" to each bout of pvp. In that sense it is (imo) needed.

GR'ing however should have the SI removed or lowered to 5% (it doesnt need to be as high as it is currently due to GR Camping - if you pop out of a gr there should be some element of risk so that you perhaps cant use ALL of your guns right away but still you shouldnt be a gimp).

Death SI should probably be halved too ideally (although this figure is debatable - mostly the timing of it should be lowered I think. I dont want to stand around that long waiting for pokes because there are a sundry of other things involved in getting a decent sized op fight together. More pvp equals more happy players.

Drug flash I would rather have removed but I think that some penalty to stats needs to be introduced in its place. An acceptable alternative might be a permanent health damage tick (permanent for the length of the flash) applied as the drugs are flushed out of the players system. With all the filter hearts and cyber-kidneys and other shit floating around I would think that players could handle most of the drugs they put in their bodies. I dont like the loss of movement and random haze we get at the moment, keep that for the people who want to fight on Cron 55.

If however a player gets a drug flash under my proposals they will lose health obviously and it will give the opponent some small advantage as the ticks are applied to damage the runner but he will at least still have a chance to heal himself and repair the damage and continue to fight on. Or he can use medkits to offset the damage or injectors or whatever else he uses to heal.

Essentially the damage would be equal to each class based on their own consitution and therefore health pool. The damage from each drug tick would be added up together (bonuses for multiples perhaps) and be offset by the healing ability of that class. Ie as tanks have the best health pools they would probably suffer less problems from the drugflash but as their heals are shite they would have less ability to counter the effects.

Pe's would essentially hopefully be able to counter the drug flash with their heals and medkits and possibly spies (those speccing psi) would be able to do the same. The only people I can see possibly having a problem with using drugs would be APU monks due to their lack of heals and general lack of a defence.

However if you fix nannites (like they were meant to work originally) then I would expect APUs to be able to use nannites as well/instead and therefore probably make them a much more fun/viable class.

I would rather see the game stick to the traditional roles of RPGs but also open the variation of what you can do with a toon by using a combination of nannites/drugs to get the best out of them.

Also I would like to see Vehicle requirements removed from vehicles. The only requirement needed should be repair to keep them maintained (without incurring costs from the warp garage). I mean its the 27th century or something now - you dont need strength of 80+ to press a button in a rhino turret now do you!

At worst I think if you need to add a requirement to make vehicles usable then please make it High-tech combat - only because 3/4 classes would probably naturally spec this anyway and it makes sense that those classes would use vehicles. Monks I wouldnt think would necessarily use them but there is the option for a monk to spec a few points in tech combat if he wants a quad or a hovertech for example (if you feel that vehicles need some form of skill to drive them).

Also


please, for the love of God make Low Tech PE's viable again.

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Originally Posted by Nadja [Mars]

maybe I am blind or s.th. ...
but where do I find this demo?
like to try it out.
:)

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You can play the demo at the GDC in San Francisco :p
I suppose they wrote this for potential investors ;)

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Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin

You can play the demo at the GDC in San Francisco :p
I suppose they wrote this for potential investors ;)

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thy
even when your answer does not please me
;)

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

I dont like the loss of movement and random haze we get at the moment, keep that for the people who want to fight on Cron 55.

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I agree with every thing you said (especially nanites as a viable alternative), except the drugs part. Tbh if you take away the negative effects of the drugs, everyone would just be popping 5-6 drugs, even if the health would go down. A holy heal would counter almost any health malus you can have. The drugs would become a must instead of a choice (though redflash and para-x are already "must" drugs for most).

A possible solution would be to lower the downtime aspect and to put negative effects during use. So like implants have negative effects, drugs might improve your speed, but lower your damage output or resists, things like that.

I feel the SI hits from GRing is good as it is. Yes, GR camping is lame, but you take the risk GRing into a potentially hostile area. This makes OP ownership better and vehicles more useful (especially if the WL become zone-less).

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

However if you fix nannites (like they were meant to work originally) then I would expect APUs to be able to use nannites as well/instead and therefore probably make them a much more fun/viable class.

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I'd say: Remove them! That would make Neocron a lot more accessible and fun to play. Tbh, I think Neocron became to confusing for newer players with the latest updates, which is a bad thing. Neocron 1 did so much right, because even "normal" players without too many multitasking capabilities could get into it. The new armors with new resists, the new implant bonuses, the many ppu modules, the nanites...it's just too much for non-hardcore players to keep pace with the real guys. In NC1, you still had an advantage as a hardcore player, but it was reasonable. At the moment, it's not (in my opinion).