Dear KK (Kirk); please, please do something.

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07-09-11, 12:41
Ivan Eres

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setlec

new engine is required to save NC clean code is a must have. now i don't know what i could do to support KK if they decide to have a team dedicated to NC. it saddens me to see my fav game in such poor state.

There are also smaller bugs that maybe could be fixed as a start:

- Weight bug when doing res missions
- Reload bug of the weapon when it won't reload at all
- Casting bug of the ppu when switching the module and it wont work the first time

I did also not know that they "married" two engines. That's really a technological masterpiece, but the code must be very difficult.

However, if kk would think about having devs of the community work for nc maybe things would move along better.
07-09-11, 17:58
Ivan Eres

Next point:

- The incredible & invisible damage the Grim Persecutor does sometimes

My ppu died an instant death just passing one by, fully buffed. Even my tank cant stand it. But the tank can withstand a Grim Chaser, at least to some degree.
07-09-11, 18:17
Brammers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan Eres

Next point:

- The incredible & invisible damage the Grim Persecutor does sometimes

My ppu died an instant death just passing one by, fully buffed. Even my tank cant stand it. But the tank can withstand a Grim Chaser, at least to some degree.

Ahh yeah, the AoE force damage I think it deals. It is insane, nearly lost a couple of Rhino's by driving too close....and don't get me started on the fluffy dice that one percy decided to set on fire! :lol:
07-09-11, 18:21
CMaster

Ahhh yes, I don't think it's AoE so much as DoT bugs.
Ever since 2.2, every mob that does Damage over Time has been overpowered, often ludicrously so. I think this is just because someone at KK got their wires crossed with how the numbers work. As in: The field is meant to be "damage per tick" but someone put in the damage to be done over the entire stack duration.
07-09-11, 18:27
CoreInsanity

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMaster

Ahhh yes, I don't think it's AoE so much as DoT bugs.
Ever since 2.2, every mob that does Damage over Time has been overpowered, often ludicrously so. I think this is just because someone at KK got their wires crossed with how the numbers work. As in: The field is meant to be "damage for entire stack" and is being dealt per tick.

Yeah, if they decide to go ahead with fixing bugs in NC they should address some PVE balance issues. Yes, this is a PVP game blah blah blah. Yes, I know. But it still has PVE aspects that need to be balanced in some degree. The best method for leveling a spy should not be droner. IMO they should try to make them equal so we can do what we want. Give us more of an incentive to kill warbots/firemobs/stuff in the wastelands in general and less regants boss room/ceres labs grinding.

I would like to actually level characters without the pile of boring that is doing those places a ton of times.

But really balance issues of any kind are probably getting ahead of ourselves at this point.
07-09-11, 20:40
Ivan Eres

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoreInsanity

Yeah, if they decide to go ahead with fixing bugs in NC they should address some PVE balance issues. Yes, this is a PVP game blah blah blah. Yes, I know. But it still has PVE aspects that need to be balanced in some degree.[...]

There are really people who love to hunt and do trader stuff.

But you are right again, without the resources at KK nothing will happen anyway.
07-09-11, 23:17
Kirk Lenke

Hi all,

I know I have promised you some answers this week but unfortunatly this will not happen due to family issues and lack of time.

So please do not be too upset, I hope I can do it latest next week.

Due to the fact that this thread is getting longer and longer is there a possibility that someone can sum up all things so that my life is a tad easier?

If not, I will go through it step by step... but this will take longer - for sure.

Hope you all are doing good, take care,

Kirk
07-09-11, 23:44
Biglines

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk Lenke

Hi all,

I know I have promised you some answers this week but unfortunatly this will not happen due to family issues and lack of time.

So please do not be too upset, I hope I can do it latest next week.

Due to the fact that this thread is getting longer and longer is there a possibility that someone can sum up all things so that my life is a tad easier?

If not, I will go through it step by step... but this will take longer - for sure.

Hope you all are doing good, take care,

Kirk

^ THIS ^
this message is what I (and afaik, we) want, a few posts explaining a situation, asking for understanding, but giving a reasonable and realistic timeframe, just something like this every few weeks/months, just so we're up to date, and don't feel left out. (aside from an anti-cheat patch and other promised things of course :p )

As to your question, if no one gets around to it I'll start on it tomorrow
08-09-11, 02:19
CoreInsanity
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan Eres

There are really people who love to hunt and do trader stuff.

But you are right again, without the resources at KK nothing will happen anyway.

I love to do trade skill / hunting stuff. I mostly help a friend of mine gather resources and stuff. However, I am mostly talking leveling here. It's just do blasted slow in the wastelands compared to ceres lab or regants boss room :/

One of the things I loved about this game is that it wasn't really a grind-fest, which is unique now in an MMO. Most of them appear to just follow the path of "Do this to feel like you accomplished something". I fail to see why you get an achievement in WoW for hitting level 10, 20, 30, etc.

But yeah, first things first as was said.

Also: Love PVP too. Used to do it a lot back in NC1, anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk Lenke

Hi all,

I know I have promised you some answers this week but unfortunatly this will not happen due to family issues and lack of time.

So please do not be too upset, I hope I can do it latest next week.

Due to the fact that this thread is getting longer and longer is there a possibility that someone can sum up all things so that my life is a tad easier?

If not, I will go through it step by step... but this will take longer - for sure.

Hope you all are doing good, take care,

Kirk

Thanks for the update, I hope everything goes ok with your family :)

I don't want to speak for other people, or quote what I think is important. However, I will state my main points of my post:

(Keeping in mind most of this is just logical conclusions I have drawn from observing)

1) It's going to take more than bug fixes to make Neocron a viable source of income. It needs marketing and constant development.
2) The code is really hard to work with, probably wasn't made to be flexible. Lack of flexibility + the two engine thing might go a decent way to explaining why it's been getting so buggy and why there are so many exploits.
3) Given #2, the best bet for Neocron is to (Eventually, not *right now*) be remade.
4) This goes along with marketing. I mostly made a connection between selling the game (Advertising) and graphics. I love NC, the graphics don't bother me. But my main point was at a glance graphics grab the attention of a customer, thus helping to pull them in and get them hooked.

My main 3 questions are:

1) How is BP doing? Is it bringing in profit?
2) How is KK doing now financially? Are you stable?
3) What are your plans for NC3, or NC2. What are we waiting on for development and what (if anything) are you actively doing development wise on NC2/3?

I had 4 and 5 but they were related to open sourcing NC, and since you have contracts making that impossible there is no real point in including them.

And one last I would like to add:
4) What is your plan as far as cheaters go? Specifically:
- Will the exploit specific bugs be fixed before taking any action?
- Will the fact that the community is really small be taken into account?
- Will there be a wipe to counter the fact that a lot of trading is restrictive due to how much cheating has gone on? For instance, CR is next to useless. I remember CR used to be a viable way to buy stuff from players, as was trading. I still remember building up the money for my first CS on my tank a long time ago. Personally, I'm in full support of a wipe after you fix stuff up. It would be nice to have something fresh, not a few people controlling most of the techs, plus the other stuff I have mentioned.
08-09-11, 06:28
Kamuix99

One important point is the payment option. You know that people from the US have serious trouble with C2P. So potential new players can't subscribe. Are you going to fix that in a way that more options are offered? Credit card is the way to go.

Also will there be active fees again for vets? I pay happily and without hesitation 5 Euros a month for a lively NC. Regardless of what other people say bout graphics and so on, the game is still superior to **** as Fallen Earth, Earthrise and whatever else.
08-09-11, 06:35
Doc Holliday

I honestly think i can sum it up quite easily.

Havent realised this thread garnered so much attention till i just trawled through.

If pve can be fixed your gonna make the game a lot more fun for people as it provides an alternative to pvp. if you can fix the cheat issues its gonna be a lot more fun for people who like to pvp (me included)

i would also like to propose starting an OFFICIAL thread on who would be realistically willing to pay again so you can see what sort of revenue you can generate from this game. it might not be much but its better than nothing im sure. delete any posts that say anything other than yes or no. or even start a poll. with no droms. :)
08-09-11, 09:50
Doc Holliday

sorry for the double post.

i think the 4 key points for this thread really are as follows:

1. Fix the cheating issues. Number 1 priority. (clipping also but cheating for definite!)
2. Fix Pve and make the game more playable for this aspect. open up more of the underused areas.
3. Fix payment options and make it pay to play again (i think this would help get rid of some of the cheaters plus bring in money again)
4. What can WE as the community do to help?

if anyone disagrees with point 4 please close your browser as you really shouldnt be on this forum ;)

otherwise i really see all 3 points above helping to bring an increase to the population and hopefully show the powers that be (ie gamigo) that this is not a lost project and that it has potential.
08-09-11, 10:12
Ivan Eres

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

1. Fix the cheating issues. Number 1 priority. (clipping also but cheating for definite!)
2. Fix Pve and make the game more playable for this aspect. open up more of the underused areas.
3. Fix payment options and make it pay to play again (i think this would help get rid of some of the cheaters plus bring in money again)
4. What can WE as the community do to help?

Perfect summary, Doc. These are the main points.

I'd just like to add to Nr. 4 that there would be the possibility to add community members to work on nc by having them sign contracts (e.g. NDA). This way the intellectual property is not harmed.
08-09-11, 10:29
Biglines
I will try to summarize and group the questions I can glean from the posts, each as specific as possible to minimize the chance it will be overlooked. The numbers with an asterix behind the number, are questions that I personally have after reading through the thread again, which did not seem to have been asked yet. If someone wants to rewrite the post into something more flowery and optimistic, go ahead.

Anti-cheat patch
A year ago, chenoa said that the developers knew what went wrong with the patch, and how to fix it. There were a few posts explaining that you were actively working on it.

1) If the developers are working on it (even in their free time), why is it taking so long?

2) How far along are you, have you fixed the problems and are just waiting for a time to patch, or are you still stumped as to why the patch didn't work last time?

3*) How many people are working on it in their free time?

3.1*) Does KK lend all its developers to gamigo on a project basis, or does gamigo pay KK for work on BP. In the last case I just don't get why part of KK's capital isn't used to actually pay the developers to work on neocron. If gamigo wants KK only to work on BP, why not just buy the whole company?

4*) Why can't these people be compensated in either overtime or subcontracting?

4.1*) If these developers are really working on neocron, is there some way for us to donate to them personally or to buy them a beer?

Payment and accounts
About 3 years ago now, 10tacle went insolvent, causing paypal subscriptions to stop functioning, to which you said that payment would be reinstated very soon.

5) Why can't there be another payment provider reinstated now that KK is no longer insolvent, so that click2pay isn't the only one still working?

6) What do you plan on changing in neocron before the monthly fee will start again? (As obviously hardly anyone will pay for the game in it current state, both support and content wise)

Communication
Communication with the community at least in the last 5 years has been abysmal, almost no messages were written concerning what was happening, the moderators on the forum were either not informed or were not allowed to comment, and most of the messages that came were mostly filled with promises that were almost never kept, or were made by moderators/employees who had to spend their own time helping/informing us. Having no time is not really an excuse when it takes over a year to communicate. Not being able to write something for a week or two is possible due to some deadline looming, but during an entire year, it is impossible for there to have been no time for a message that in the worst case scenario takes an hour or two to research and write.

7) What are your plans on improving communication with the community?

8) Can you in the future, when it appears you will not be able to keep the promises you made, at least let us know as soon as possible that you won't be able to make it?

You don't even have to say why if that's something private to the company, but at least let us know that you won't be keeping your promises, instead of just waiting years and then doing something drastic. Three years ago you promised us an anti-cheat patch in 3 months, after a year of no communication, suddenly you patched the game without prior notice, and without much communication that patch was then rolled back because it simply didn't work.

We understand if you are having troubles financially that you can't keep your promises, but at least let us know immediately when you realize this will happen.

Development
9) How many of the original neocron developers are still around?

10) What is the state of the code for neocron, can you give us a few details about how neocron is built up?

10.1) Can you tell us if it is at all possible for you to fix the huge amount of memory leaks and conflicts between the gfx engines?

Some community members expresses their wishes for neocron to be made open source, or to hire/include some community members as sources for development, content and artwork.

11) Could you explain why the game won't be made open source?

12) Could you explain why you don't use the huge potential of some of the community members to work on neocron? We have some very talented developers here.

Future content
13) Are you planning any content patches for nc2?

14*) You said you were working on nc3, but obviously since the developers work on nc2 in their free time, this simply wasn't true. Is there actual work being done on nc3, or was it only a deflection?

Alternative revenue models
15) What kind of revenue models are you considering? for example freemium, cash shop, monthly subscription, ad-based etc?

16) Will you make the game open source if you have no longer wish to run it yourself?

Some more questions that could be directly taken from posts by community members that did either not fit, or are more fitting than the ones above (or because I am simply too lazy to paraphrase them further :p )

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoreInsanity

My main 3 questions are:

1) How is BP doing? Is it bringing in profit?
2) How is KK doing now financially? Are you stable?
3) What are your plans for NC3, or NC2. What are we waiting on for development and what (if anything) are you actively doing development wise on NC2/3?

I had 4 and 5 but they were related to open sourcing NC, and since you have contracts making that impossible there is no real point in including them.

And one last I would like to add:
4) What is your plan as far as cheaters go? Specifically:
- Will the exploit specific bugs be fixed before taking any action?
- Will the fact that the community is really small be taken into account?
- Will there be a wipe to counter the fact that a lot of trading is restrictive due to how much cheating has gone on? For instance, CR is next to useless. I remember CR used to be a viable way to buy stuff from players, as was trading. I still remember building up the money for my first CS on my tank a long time ago. Personally, I'm in full support of a wipe after you fix stuff up. It would be nice to have something fresh, not a few people controlling most of the techs, plus the other stuff I have mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by r2d22k

Some things which i am curious about:
1) why not having a vote: would you pay for a NC1 or NC2 server?
i know several people which, because of the netcode problems, would really like to see nc1 again, i know this has been discussed quite often on the forums, but i would like to know, why you are not considering this option instead of getting a patch out, wouldn't that be less work?

2) how can we help? What can we do so you are able to fix the current problems with the NC2 netcode? i thought about maybe some donations, which would be managed by a third party or someone the community and you are trusting

3) why is the interpolation, which worked in nc1 not working anymore since i think nc2.2, in nc1 the z coordinate was calculated correctly, but since nc 2.2 it isn't anymore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setlec

@Kirk: just a small advice if you want really to have a linux client as you wished in this post of yours http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=17 get one programmer to code on a linux environment from day one instead of making the whole game on windows platform then port it to linux/mac. it reduces a lot of costs...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brammers

1. When is the next Neocron 2 patch planned to be released?
2. What's the long term plans for Neocron 2?
3. What is Reakktor's view on the current state of communication to the community, and what plans do they have to change it? (If any).
4. What is Reakktor's view on the current state of in-game and out-of-game support, and what plans do they have to change it? (If any).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreInsanity

Can they actually market the game good enough in it's current (Fixed) state to bring in enough people to make money off it?
Can they fix the game enough to expand on it without breaking it?
Can the game in it's current (Fixed) state even handle an increased number of players (hundreds).
*What exactly will it take to fix the current state of Neocron?
How much will it cost them to fix NC compared to how much it will cost for them to make an NC3.
A really important one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerpunsh

@ Kirk: As i can see you read through the thread. We had a little DB error on terra some months ago (click me) which caused damage at some players appartments. Chenoa told us that you are on it and after 1 or 2 weeks like 2% of the missing furnitures came back. But thats all so far. Iam not the only one who has literally lost all his important stuff. I would be appreciate about an information about this issue. :)

Also from the thread, it seems that though most people agree that cheating is one of the biggest problems, in order to get more players, there are a number of things that need to be fixed as well (in no particular order):
- Cheating/exploits, fixed, not just barred with GM spawned fences
- PVE, the only way to reasonably level these days is the most boring route, make mobs possible to solo and fix the DoT damage
- Fatal runtime errors and synching, fix the memory leaks, a game over 10 years old should not still be suffering from elemental programming errors.

For me personally, the first 2 are required to even make me consider paying for the game again, but that's possibly just me.

But the most important question of all:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brammers

Would you like a cookie? ;)
08-09-11, 12:53
Placido

Nice post biggi ;)

i hope we get some answers now???
This should be the easiest way for Kirk to answer "all" questions!

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