rename holy lightning to holy nuke from space and adjust damage accordingly, maybe apu's wont think there underpowered if they can instakill a whole zone at once.
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rename holy lightning to holy nuke from space and adjust damage accordingly, maybe apu's wont think there underpowered if they can instakill a whole zone at once.
ok, now i get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Genji
Yea i would love for them to just port NC, but they wont, as Kirk said, it will be a "new NC3, a real NC3".
Afraid so. =/Quote:
Originally Posted by Torg
i'm not perfectly sure, if i agree here. so the spy has more defense, compared to the apu? and the dissy and ak still do more damage, even without tech/woc-bonus?Quote:
Originally Posted by flib
Definitely with the AK and dissy, but even with other rares, they still put out more damage than APU's and they have even weaker resists.
There are a few people who can pull off the APU as it is now, but they just happen to be gifted APU players, and it shouldn't be restricted so only a couple people can use them well.
Ok sorry i meant port to new engine. Not simple reskin. Mix up of terms on my part.
Porting the present content would make the result look just about the same, except maybe with better lighting. Functionally, it would certainly be an improvement, but porting 10 year old graphical content would not sell well.
Can you tell that I don't know anything about how these things work.
I just want to see nc with the type of graphical detail they have in BP (but with better backgrounds because BP lacks in the department).
.....people don't play neocron for the cool graphics, and I doubt most if any would care if it looked as it does now as long as it was stable.
lol flib, no need for symantics.
Port/ rewrite, same shit basically, of coarse you wouldnt want the same old graphics with a new engine.
naw. they would care genji. it doesnt have to be state of the art but its gotta be better than the current state for a lot of people im sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Genji
a/the new engine would give them a fresh start because from all i read about the current nc engine its a mess in terms of code etc. CoDi said it here on the forum a long time ago and after him John Doe im pretty sure. someone else mentioned it too once. might have been the N actually or Callash. i dont remember right but it needs a fresh start.
What William means is the IP of Neocron. The concept of it. The whole Nc atmosphere we love. not a direct port cause that would suck. it needs new life breathed in.
as i type this i had a brain wave. Total new city(ies). the hold over could be the factions. keep them the same. maybe adjust some of the rares (looks and ability) and redo a huge portion of it.
Then for us who steadfastly refuse to let go of the dream drop a Neofrag in to the city that works. Get rid of the shitty decks no one uses and put pepper park 1-3 in there. Put the oz subway (:P) and the outzones in there.
Hell put plaza 2 in there because people love fighting there so much. add these as decks. you have somethin from the old school and somethin from the new school.
a later expansion can be Neocron city. revisited.
Those are two completely different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by yavimaya
For the game to ever actually become successful (like nc1? O_o) the graphics need to be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Genji
Agreed. For an MMO, Neocron actually had pretty damn good graphics when it came out. If it wasn't at the top of the MMO heap graphically when it came out, it was certainly close.Quote:
Originally Posted by flib
Neocron 2... not so much. Nearly everything they came out with at launch was recycled from Neocron, and the new content wasn't any more advanced than what had launched 2 years prior. By that time we had screenshots of Everquest 2 (which, while it's an ugly game from an artistic perspective, is certainly more advanced technically than NC2) to show just how far MMO graphics had come.
I think this is something that KK has come to understand now, as Black Prophecy is a beautiful looking game. I don't believe they would remake Neocron just to give it the short end of the stick like that.
I didn't mean new players, I ment current and old players (half of which cry they would rather have old outdated nc1 graphics). Myself included, I don't care about nc1 graphics but I wouldn't care if the graphics got any better aslong as it was stable and there were people that needed killing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
As for a flow new players in an nc3 ofc I would agree with flib.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flib
I hope that any new player models are based on the NC1 player models, rather than the boring NC2 ones.
i still think they need to keep Neocron (the city), keep worldmap reletively the same, but add Irata3 and tokyo2 to Kemmura, and you travel between the two planets via black Prophecy!
were talking about 2 different neocrons here. yes, we all want NC3, on a new graphics engine and a new world to explore. but thats 4 years away from now. but we brave 300 neocron spartakians left also want new things to do, and some bugfixing, regardless of graphical advancements. i'd rather call that NC2.3, and i started discussing that with you recently.
My biggest worry for NC3 is if the developers decide to take the route they have taken with Black Prophecy. By that, I do not mean F2P, as I actually like the system in BP. Quicker levelling, no SI, etc - but no benefit to endgame PvP. What I mean is, I hope they don't go down the instancing route.
Neocron was the first genuine persistent world I played. Anarchy Online, which was my first MMO, was instanced in several areas. With Neocron, nobody even cared that it was split into zones, it still felt like one persistent world.
Also, please realise how HUGELY important world design is. There's no MMO that has even come close to immersing me as much as Neocron, with it's beautifully designed Neocron city, Pepper Park, CRP, etc. All of these zones are unforgettable, and I know them like I know my own street.
What I would say is, list ALL of the key points of Neocron. Don't add too much, don't take too much away. Revamp the graphics and engine then tweak. The content of the original NC was more than enough to keep people playing at endgame, and people started to leave due to bugs/patches rather than the actual game itself.
In short, please don't kill Neocron.
@LOKI - Yeah I agree mostly on on keeping it as one persistent world, but lets try and get rid of the zonelines to make it one BIG persistent world!
Also I don't like this instancing. One thing that makes NC great, is the non-instancing. How many times have you starting making your way out of a cave, to unexpectedly meeting a load of evil Tangents half-way along and have a fight. :D
Totally agreed. We need that danger element to remain. Random encounters have, and always will be the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brammers
Definitely agree with that.
I think maybe we need an NC3 forum so we can have threads to discuss each point about how we want things to be done with NC3 so KK can at least get an idea of what the best way to do things might be.
We could have polls on things, so that they can see what direction most of the community wants it to go in. For example: we could have a thread discussing instancing, and I imagine most people would vote for persistent world, so they'd see that most everyone wants that and can use that information in their decisions on where to take NC3. This could also be done for other things like subscription fees vs free-to-play with microtransactions, etc.
Loki, you should have played Ultima Online, i just wish they could have had the world like that, as in it was one huge map, no sync lines, no different zones, none of this zonelining crap people did in NC.Quote:
Originally Posted by L0KI
well there was zone lining, but it was more guardline whoring, but they could still die :P
Have to agree on the rest. apart from the faster leveling part, BP is a painful bitch to level in.
I am slowly learning that fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by yavimaya
Just to chime in with agreement there - I always loved the lack of instancing in NC - makes the locations feel that much more real. I was always concerned when Snowcrash talked about how much better they could make NC with instancing.
That said, it's not that instancing is a flat-out never thing either. Apartments are basically permanent instances. I could also get behind randomly generated missions having instances inside certain building blocks etc - with the proviso that they take the EvE like approach and make it possible for others to follow you into the instance.
One of the most exciting things about levelling my first couple of characters in Neocron was the constant danger of some smurf coming along with a plasma cannon and flattening me. I also loved the idea that I might be able to fight back and win, but that was often not the case when I was a noob. :(
I'm actually enjoying Black Prophecy at the moment, but the lack of fear of death is bothering me to the extent that I may not stick with it. It's not just when I'm levelling, it's that they neglected to include any incentive to PvP/not to PvP.
Somewhere in the middle would be nice, but the underlying point I am trying to make is: Encourage random PvP encounters.
interesting thought but i think if you instance content for a party then let them have it privately for them to use. I think back to the days of NF and tards turning up and getting in the middle of duels etc. Leave the open world areas/sectors/zones what ever for where the fights happen. I would say keep instancing to a minimum and leave the LE in the new game so people have plenty of choice over how they play.Quote:
Originally Posted by CMaster
a good incentive for players to go to the open areas would be better loot drops or something similar. kind of a reverse of what wow does but i think that it suits this game better.
Certainly, better loot for open areas, but there should be not instances anyways.
XP from PVP, more per kill if you are in a team but shared with the team, so teams dont gain shit for ganking lonebies, however loners should gain ALOT of XP if they manage to kill the team/ a person on the team, but XP should only be given once, then you should have to kill 5 others/ wait half hour before you can get XP from the same person.
Although it can get horribly annoying, i also like the loot all system from games like UO.
Makes me sad that black prophecy has no real insentive to pvp or penalty for death =( But makes me happy its out in november so they can get started on neocron 3!!
I hope they basically keep most of it the same, LE, death penalty, factions and what not but mostly go back toward the nc1 system of everybody in 1 city with no safezones, only guards to keep you safe. The idea of splitting up the enemy factions was horrible.. I LOVED the in city fights so much, around any corner you could run into a enemy and have to fight for your life.
That said though I'm not sure about going completely back to the old system, personally I absolutly loved MB an TH being dangerous zones, specially as my CM char where anytime I left my appartment there was a good chance somebody would try to kill me but I could imagine it would make neocron 3 a very niche game if they did this again, not many people like the constant fear of death, many seem to like a place they can sit and know nobody will kill them.
I do hope they remove woc though, that was just annoying, or else make it so every class has a woc gun AND that woc guns are just nice appearance stuff NOT uber guns that completely destroy all non woc guns.
Would also like to see more OPs and perhaps different mechanics for OP capture, for example some stay as capture, some you have to blow up a generator and build your own or something, and ofc replace those bloody turrets with security bots!, I mean seriously did anybody ever have a problem wth turrets.. you could just hide around a corner and never get hit, a bot though can move after you. And perhaps make the security of a OP based on how many of the clan are online perhaps (thats just a random idea most likely wouldn't work).
Roll on neocron 3!! I need a game which requires skill to play! I'm getting so fed up with sodding action bar games with kids smashing their head into the keyboard and winning cos they have better gear then screaming about how good they are. One of my favorite memories from neocron was when I was half leveled at the bunker and a capped or near capped at least tank attacked and I just destroyed him cos he was a complete noob. No other game I've found has that! normally if somebodys double your level in most games nowadays your dead meat, in neocron if you where good you could fight back and even win if he was just plain awful.
Here's a thought...
Rename it.
Yes, I said it. Neocron 3 will likely put off anyone that ignored/disliked NC 1 and NC 2.
Totally changing the name to something else, and including Neocron in the title will make it more appealing to gamers as a new game.
This for example:
XXnewname hereXXXXXXXXX : Neocron