Cheers runners,
feel free to discuss the current testserver patch here. The corresponding patch notes may be found here.
Slauncha,
Alduin
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Cheers runners,
feel free to discuss the current testserver patch here. The corresponding patch notes may be found here.
Slauncha,
Alduin
Just throwing this out there...
This is definitely a step in the right direction to prevent the almighty LE advantage. I look forward to testing these changes tomorrow.
Oh man this is great! You're telling me Un-le'd people can now blow up le'd peoples vehicles and they can't even defend themselves :) I can't wait to go out to all the popular spots and grief the shit outta all those lowly LE'd scum who are just trying to level. This is seriously gonna be fun, I can't tell you how many times Ive been out in the wastes and I come accross an LE'd guy leveling and I thought to myself "I wish there were some way I could just kill this noob, or at least make him suffer in some way" Now I can :) Thankyou Devs for this new gift I shall cherish it.
From the quick play this evening... the hacknet mobs are doing damage, BUT for a 48/48 * mob, my character was not struggling in the slightest for health. I need to check on it more, but might need to increase the mob damage of the hacknet mobs. I need to have a mess about in another factions DB first though ;)
I mean this in the most helpful way that a runner can comment on a patch, but that is the wrongest direction to go with solving that bug. LE'd Rhinos can't even return fire? What was the thought behind this decision? Because the way I see it, it is going to make leveling for new runners (who keep their LE in longer) a whole lot slower and keep the population of new runners down. If you are going in this direction, have vehicles able to attack each other regardless of LE status. That is literally the only way to keep it fair. The way it is in 181 is the most unbalanced thing I have ever seen in a game.
I am not bitching, just criticizing a 'fix' that seems to unbalance a bug that already exists.
It was probably the easiest/quickest way to "fix" the bug.
I like the vehicle fix. If you want to defend yourself, take out the LE and bust back.
Oh I like it too, I love shooting defenseless people, its what they deserve for being so late to the party or having lives outside the game so they still aren't capped on all their characters. It's just so good that this "fix" has happened after I got to level all my characters up and amass a collection of tech parts and rares, too bad for the suckers that are still levelling up or part hunting and keep their LEs in. (or don't keep it in, makes no difference, if they're still levelling they're easy pickings either way.)
It's open season on those pussies! Hahahaha, they can't even shoot back.
wow.....just....wow :/ oh well, seeing that i level most my guys rhinoing guess i wont be leveling anymore :/ only have 1 capped char and i use him to level my tradeskillers so whats the point of me even playing anymore? i work 12-14 hours a day 6 days a week so fuck me i guess......best patch yet guys, keep up the good work! one carebear down, rest of the non op fighting server to go :/
its not like a huge percentage of people use the vehicles. They use a rhino sometimes but not so often. most people know your still better on foot with range due to damage at higher levels.
Why all the QQ. stops LE rhino thieves taking peoples loot with no blow back.
It's because of the unbalancedness of the patch itself. They could easy say all vehicles can shoot all vehicles regardless of LE, but they chose this route, and from everyone I am hearing from, that is the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
Last I checked if you could shoot and damage something and it couldn't damage you back thats an exploit. I guess the Devs are promoting this particular exploit. Why stop at vehicles? Why not make it possible for UN-LE'd people to shoot and damage LE'd people and keep so the LE cant shoot back. Makes sense with this line of thinking, unless you guys can't figure out how to fix the initial bug, then this makes perfect sense. It's not a bug it's a feature :)
@Whiners: Typical Neocron community reaction to a Test Server patch. :rolleyes:
While I do feel that this is a positive change, it's a change on the Test Server, so it's not necessarily going to make it to retail or even be permanent if it does.
If you don't like it, then maybe try typing out something constructive instead of just crying.
I, for one, welcome this change, as it shows that not only are the volunteers able to stomp out bugs, but are willing to make the bold gameplay-altering decisions necessary to make Neocron great again.
Remember: just because a change is disadvantageous to you does not make it a bad or wrong choice. (Ex: drone fixes)
Define: FeedbackQuote:
Originally Posted by flib
maybe one should follow his own advise. theres nothing constructive in your post, its all flame with cuddos to the devs lol. The drone fix was needed because 90% of the server actually used drones and benefited from them. as doc said earlier its a very small percentage of people who actually use vehicles, so this patch only affects a small percentage of people who use them, therefore this patch wasnt to fix a big problem, it was more to stop like 2 people on the server from using the game mechs to their advantage blocking loot.Quote:
Originally Posted by flib
Hmm, Im not that satisfied with that vehicle fix, but I guess the developers aren't too.
From that change I would say LEd Vehicles were exploited too much to let that state continue. - I think I read some combination of LE and Non LE in a vehicle could attack other players before, but the attacked could not defend himself? - Now its the other way around, I guess thats more important, and LE Drivers blocking loot is an additional story.
Change in gameplay:
- LE Runners are very discouraged from using vehicles
- Non LE Runners cannot be killed anymore with vehicles and no fear of retaliation
- LE Runners can still level
So, not really a very good fix for many of those LEs out there, but fixing more than it opens up i guess.
And P.S: I am sure if someone has an easy to implement idea how to fix this another way, I am sure the Devs would at least listen. Of course that would also mean to accept their feedback when they say "not doable", "we don't want it that way", ... and whatever.
How about this, make it the way it was before it got bugged on Titan. LE'd people can't shoot anyone. Un-LE'd people can only shoot other Un-LE'd people/vehicles. I don't understand why this is so hard of a concept to understand. Unless the Devs can't figure out how to get it back to this point, in which case I can see why they're trying to put a positive spin on this new development. So I guess I'll hop on the TS and test out how best to blowup LE'd peoples vehicles while they can't even shoot me back...
The logical fix to LE'd vehicles would simply be to match all other rules involving LE and no-LE interaction, no? Basically, an LE'd gunner shouldn't be able to harm other vehicles/players and to not be harmed at all by other vehicles/players, LE or no-LE. That doesn't appear to be possible or it's exploitable? Or it's a shift in position on the LE itself...
Anyway, I would urge the devs to make absolutely sure there is some way of informing the players that even if they are LE'd, other players can damage their vehicles with other vehicles. I realize it has been this way for awhile, yet I still see people in-game that were not aware of this, until someone blows up their shiny new ride that is. Not really getting more people into vehicles this way, which I think is a part of NC over looked, save the quad.
With that said, can you please look at the reqs on the vehicles and put them back to what they used to be? I miss my HC driving PE :( And really don't understand why the reqs were changed as dramatically as they were...
As it was you could easily have an le guy and a non le gunner driving around together lookin for ganking targets. When the you found one the driver simply needs to hop out. Boom target gets killed. The driver hops back in and the le protects the vehicle from retaliation.
Now that is fixed. This is a good thing.
The only further change to this is I would suggest making it so the le is disabled while in the vehicle. That at least means the gunner can shoot back. It's an option. Failing that the gunner has to remove the le.
Maybe grow some balls while he's there. ;-)
Sweet! This is going to be like ganking 0/2's!
.....
Oh sweet. Fixing without a fix of a > half a year problem.
So a level 5 - 20 noob can be travelling from NC to MB (or vice versa) and have his Quad (perhaps even a hard earned and purchased chaincraft) blown up from underneath him leaving him stranded in the wastes?
Or an unLE'd vehicle can camp over an LE'd kill and wait to open it up? This switches a problem from one group of players to another and creates further problems.
I cannot overstate what a ridiculous idea this is.
I'm an advocate of implementing ideas to encourage LE removal but this is not how to do it. This is a punishment and legalised griefing, nothing less.
I this case i would differ between "passive" and "active" Vehicles which means only a speedbike or a quad without any shoot ability is not able to get blown up by non le runners. Rhinos and other shooting vehicles can BUT vehicleuser's should be able to shoot back to devend their property.
On the otherhand i would just say dont give le'd runners access to "active" vehicles. Problem solved. If Le'd runners want to go hunting with a rhino or something there is always be a non le runner for spawn and sit in required.
To clarify this again a quote from the patchnotes: the law enforcer only protects the runner himself, not his belongings! And it also makes sure the runner obeys the law. It is as simple as that.
And from a fairplay point of view: consider led players destroying other peoples vehicles: non-led players have no real means to punish those led runners by just killing them, like you would do with non-led runners. Nevertheless, in case you feel uncomfortable with this change, make a decent, well thought- and layed-out proposal and post it here or send it in, we are always open to suggestions.
Also remember, that this is only a part of what will make it into R#181, this is a testerver patch. Especially gameplay mechanic changes will have to be tested as thoroughly as possible. To concentrate on a single gameplay change at once, all gameplay wise changes made with R#181 will be pushed to Vedeena bit by bit.
Maybe a solution introducing a "PvP-Flag" for Vehicles:
Non-LEd Vehicle: A vehicle flagged for Non-LEd Players
LEd Vehicle: A vehicle flagged for LEd Players
Rules:
- LE can enter LE-Vehicle
- Non-LE can enter Non-LE Vehicle
- LE cannot enter Non-LE Vehicle
- Non-LE cannot enter LE-Vehicle
The activation can be done automaticaly:
Because a Non-LEd player cannont enter LE-Vehicle, it makes no sense for him to be able to activate LEd mode and vice versa.
Activation and Deactivation of Flag:
- automaticlay decided on playerstatus
- Non-LEd player spwans Non-LE Vehicle
- LEd player spawns LE Vehicle
I would like to make a suggestion.
I have got my coffee and I have read through the criticisms slowly and carefully. I cannot believe I am the only person who thought of this however.
Please can we make vehicles almost invincible to regular weapons, but damageable. In the real world currently (from experience) we have large vehicles engaged on military exercises and our governments are doing all they can to protect those vehicles from small arms fire. That said small arms fire DOES still damage and on occasion wound the people inside.
However at the same time we ALSO have specifically designed ANTI-Vehicular weapon systems. These are ALSO in nc. They have been since forever.
Is it at all possible to make these weapons and more particularly their ammo work in the correct way? IE they do little to no damage to a player but they can do a LARGE amount of damage to a vehicle.
Due to the most popular vehicle for levelling being a rhino how about a full clip of rockets (4 I think) would destroy a full health rhino. Splash damage would catch and wound (possibly severely) the repairer if he was in range. Just like in the real world.
Other vehicles would have proportional damage too. One hit would not kill any vehicle but at most do 50% damage perhaps? (to quads etc and other light vehicles?) This would give the runner a chance to escape if he felt the need and also give the shooter a chance to carry out his attack.
The regular and rare guns would still be able to hit and wound/damage vehicles don't forget. I am not saying completely invincible but at the same time the vehicle driver needs to have the ability to be able to drive away and avoid said damage, LE'd or not.
this would cover ground vehicles at least. Heavy armour for tanks and the rest.
Air Vehicles - Would have significantly lower armour compared to ground vehicles. Small arms would damage them as they're lighter and less armoured. However anti air weapons are currently a nightmare to use. If you can get a hit they should do significant damage to the vehicle. Small arms should still be able to score hits and damage the vehicle though - self defence etc.
Any thoughts?
That would finally put the Anti-Vehicle and Anti Air Rocket Launcher to use... i'd appreciate if those weapons could lock-on their targets. They would of course not lock on anything else then vehicles.
also they should feature a Armor Piercing Missile, with a shaped charge. Very little AoE damage but high Vehicular damage.
Thus those Anti Vehicle weapons would become barely usable against soft targets but usefull against hard targets.
Love the idea!Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
Or maybe just make vehicles have low resists to force or something? That way other classes than HC tanks can damage vehicles aswell ;)
I'm sorry but I disagree with this point, considering that only tanks can get the anti tank weapons. Which used to already work as extra damage on vehicles (no idea if that has changed since i've been gone)
If you make tanks/vehicles immune or very strong against weapon dmg you'll just end up seeing lots of ganks with rhino's that no one can do anything about unless you happen to have the right class with the right weapon you're dead.
I'm sure i'm not the only one but I like the idea that has been put in by the dev's there should be an element of risk for all players in this world, okay you want to keep your LE in and be safe fair enough but if you want to go into this raw unsafe world you have to make considerations, like the fact you may lose your vehicle. Yep as with every patch, change and miniscule comment made by DEV's you will get the people that this directly affects their little safe zone of the world and upsets their earning by stopping their ability to farm without penalty or risk who will kick off and say that this is unfair and unreasonable but I think from a neutral standpoint considering the parameters of what the game can do this is the best solution.
As i've said in previous threads there are two parts to the game, capping your character and equipping your character. While I feel the LE is justified for the initial part of this I don't feel that it should be the be safe while you farm a shit load of techs to make weapons and sell. But I don't wanna go off topic and bring this back to the LE arguement all over again.
so what your are saying is u are le'd and u get into a vehicle, your vehicle can get blown up by any non le'd person no matter the circumstance. and this is intended. so what i gather from this is we the dev team couldnt fix the bug so we felt this was the most natural step.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alduin
now i know that im NOT on a whole lot anymore but in all honesty ive never seen this happen (and if it does happen, how come fraps, screenshots, and emails to kk arent getting these exploiters warned and banned?). now if u ask me how many times my rhino has been blown up by by members from RSC, i would need both hands to count. it seems to me like you guys are turning the molehill into a mountain. fix the bug, or make it fair for EVERYONE as it is now vhc on vhc is fairgame. after the patch le'd players who use vhc to level and farm are just screwed, and the devs are sayin if u dont like it, take out the le. thats complete bsQuote:
Originally Posted by Alduin