[SPLIT] Newbie Discussion

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20-06-14, 23:38
Torg

[SPLIT] Newbie Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alduin

The low level leveling should after all still be enjoyable, same of course for mid level leveling. So creating a few noob chars and leveling a few levels in MC5 and a few in the city would be nice...

i brought up a few new chars in different places (on Titan). from the view of an experienced player my ratings are:

TG Canyon is next to impossible. is there a Yo's/Smuggler/allbuyer in the canyon? all sewers/caves are too easy, while the jump from canyon to wasteland is too harsh, there is no mid-level area in between. fun rating 1 out of 5 stars

NC city (plaza) is too easy. sewer L1 will never kill your char, beggars will get you to mutants to aggies.... fun rating 4 out of 5 stars (plaza makes mission grinding too eays and thus playing NC to easily boring)

Pepper Park is alright, if you know where to hunt, there's real low-level places as well as the challenging pepper park sewers. shopping is quite good. fun rating 4 out of 5 stars (it's somewhat hard for a 0/2, faction guards aren't acting against enemies)

Tech Haven (if you run your fresh char there) is terrible, there is no Yo's, sewers/energy cores are too hard except L1. no weapons or amour traders. fun rating 2 out of 5 stars (add shops, low level sewers, a Yo's, more faction guards)

Outzone (either from OZ station or pepper park) is the perfect newb place - once you understand the complicated zone layout. just the right mix of hostile NPCs (up to cyclops and grand spider spawns), just leftover dragons wraith are a nuisance. We need more place like the Outzone. fun rating 4 out of 5 stars (5/5 if the layout was more easy to understand for newbs)

Military Base is quite nice to raise a new char, sewers are challenging but not impossible, the MB bunker is right at hand, shopping is fun at the MB. fun rating 4 out of 5 stars (5/5) if it had a natural city center, where traders would hang out and/or socialize)

MC5: i tried it once. years ago. next to no atmosphere/reason to act. stupid place, and perfect for driving away new players. fun rating 0 out of 5 stars (please remove the MC5)

And yes, i miss the newb experience in the dome. best sewers ever, good mix of mobs in the adjacent wasteland, great atmosphere of a 'rebel city'. good shopping, too. i'd give it a fun rating of 5 stars.
21-06-14, 02:28
Ivan Eres

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torg

[...]MC5: i tried it once. years ago. next to no atmosphere/reason to act. stupid place, and perfect for driving away new players. fun rating 0 out of 5 stars (please remove the MC5)[...]

/signed

The players should only have to teleport to Plaza 1 from there in my opinion if it has to be kept lore-wise.

At P1 the new players will meet real people that can help them. New players will enjoy the real Neocron experience from the very start. On my first day in NC I teleported to my appa immediately to see the real thing and I met a guy downstairs who gave me and my friend booze and showed us around. Lots of booze.. I was completely hooked to NC from that very moment and have been ever since.

The newb mc5 is useless. I never needed it. It distracts from the real NC. I had a look once later just to know what it is and I was thoroughly disappointed. If it was to be removed in a heartbeat I would never miss it. Sorry to hijack this post of Torg somehow but this is something that I wanted to say for quite some time now so I used that chance.

Regards
21-06-14, 03:11
arthego

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torg

MC5: i tried it once. years ago. next to no atmosphere/reason to act. stupid place, and perfect for driving away new players. fun rating 0 out of 5 stars (please remove the MC5)

Couldn't agree with this more. Way way back before MC5 showed up I had no problem becoming familiar with the game, just running around Plaza and Via (before the tutorial existed). I got lost all the time but Navray took care of that, or after talking to some people. I actually thought the whole game took place in Neocron for quite awhile, never realizing you could leave the city. Then one day I ran into a char using a rocket pistol in PP1 and was like WHOA where you get that. They told me about the MB and for the first time I opened the world map and was like holy fuck that's huge! My point is that I had no problem learning the game without MC5. I enjoyed the game cause I could explore and find my own way.

Then the day came where I came back to Neocron after 10 years or so, I had totally forgotten all the commands including how to get to help chat and ask questions (I feel this is a big issue with MC5). This was a problem because I couldn't ask for help with commands and I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing in MC5. I ran around for a bit and lvled, finally I couldn't take the isolation anymore and gened out of there to my apt. Now I could finally wonder around the city and ask people stuff. A completely new player might just think that MC5 is the game and they are just going to be alone the whole time.

Now I was familiar with the game, at least in memory, when I got tossed into MC5. I felt isolation and and like there was nothing really to do. When I originally started way way back I was in my apt and once I figured out the elevator I had no problem exploring and finding people etc, hell the computer even being on a desk rather then a wall helped me realize that is where I'd check my email. Having access to other players neutralizes the learning curve. I'm not sure why MC5 was added, maybe people were ganking to many noobs in the sewers and they wanted to separate them. This is weird to me because all noobs have LE's and should even realize they can remove them. All I know is anytime I do run around in MC5 and someone that is actually new is there they are always asking me questions.

Also what Torg said about TG is true I had the same issue finding the "all buy" next to the Drom. It doesn't help that Navray even still thinks the old Yo's shop is still there so when you set it to find the all buy your taken to a different shop. There is also no Vendor that sells standard grenade ammo!!!! :eek:

Quote:

New configuration options added to the driver dialog window, giving players control of the dynamic lighting of shots, casting of shadows and more!
The decrease of intensity from dynamic lights, with the distance from the light source has been flattened. Dynamic lights now cast light over longer distances

Tried enabling these options but for some reason they don't "stick" after I apply them. They are always unchecked when I check on them again. Also is there an example location that might show off these effects better or weapons that might?
21-06-14, 10:45
Torg

on second thought: despite being started as an answer to Alduins question for the "newb experience", i'd see this sub-thread moved to the brainport, leaving the patch discussion for actual patch and balancing issues. but this is up to the forum mods.
21-06-14, 18:25
Jabal

I think a good things to do for improve the "normal" player beginner experience is to put the shopping items at a normal state . no more low or dusty stuff .

you can buy normal stuf and if you want better one you can contract a res and construct player.

In the testing mod , i have a low spy droner ( 11/10) i go for captain aggie easily with drone tl 20.
23-06-14, 18:13
Trivaldi

Thread split from the patch discussion to prevent derailing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torg

TG Canyon is next to impossible. is there a Yo's/Smuggler/allbuyer in the canyon? all sewers/caves are too easy, while the jump from canyon to wasteland is too harsh, there is no mid-level area in between. fun rating 1 out of 5 stars

Was this review done since the TG newbie experience was expanded upon in Patch R#184? This patch changed the caves significantly (which received a lot of positive feedback at the time), provided enemies from 2/2 right through to 50/50 in and outside the main Canyon Facility. This also reinstated stores and an all-buyer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torg

Outzone (either from OZ station or pepper park) is the perfect newb place - once you understand the complicated zone layout. just the right mix of hostile NPCs (up to cyclops and grand spider spawns), just leftover dragons wraith are a nuisance. We need more place like the Outzone. fun rating 4 out of 5 stars (5/5 if the layout was more easy to understand for newbs)

The spawning of Dragon's Wrath guards (edit: in Outzone 1) was also deactivated in R#184.
23-06-14, 21:20
Torg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trivaldi

Was this review done since the TG newbie experience was expanded upon in Patch R#184? This patch changed the caves significantly (which received a lot of positive feedback at the time), provided enemies from 2/2 right through to 50/50 in and outside the main Canyon Facility. This also reinstated stores and an all-buyer.

Yes, like 2 or 3 days ago. i know theres a group of mutants outside the canyon, but i found the jump in difficulty too harsh and the overall newb experience much less enjoyable than in other places. maybe put in a tougher cave, or repopulate the one just outside the canyon entrance with an alternative to the mutants group. or maybe it should stay the way it is, because Spartaaa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trivaldi

The spawning of Dragon's Wrath guards was also deactivated in R#184.

that's why i didn't meet any of those in the recent days...
23-06-14, 21:33
Trivaldi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torg

Yes, like 2 or 3 days ago. i know theres a group of mutants outside the canyon, but i found the jump in difficulty too harsh and the overall newb experience much less enjoyable than in other places. maybe put in a tougher cave, or repopulate the one just outside the canyon entrance with an alternative to the mutants group. or maybe it should stay the way it is, because Spartaaa.

that's why i didn't meet any of those in the recent days...

Interesting to know thanks. I will take another look then. :)

The original logic was that the 6 caves take you up to 16/16 lizards, plus one or two tougher mobs. The TG quick job missions were rewritten to match the new cave mobs present in CF. There are then mutants from 12/12 upwards with only one or two larger mutants at the new pit. Based on current newbie leveling in Plaza 2, the balance seemed about right in my personal play tests. Beyond those there is the group of reapers as a "MB bunker" kind of area for mid-high.

I appreciate the comments, man power for testing is always appreciated.

How did you find the stores? While they dont carry the usual brands I hoped the more detailed than normal levels of decoration gave appropriate clues in addition to the NPC labels. Basically everything you can find in other new-starter areas should be available.
24-06-14, 02:39
arthego

TG area notes, just started a new char to check things out.

Navray: Setting your Navray to locate the ALL Buy still send you to the old YO's location (now the RSM's) this can be very misleading as the all by is now literally on the opposite side of the map.

All buy: Still very hard to find. He is present but is off the beaten path and may be difficult for new players to locate. Possible solution: swap him (and his drom :D) with the High Tech Pistol Smuggler. This would also put him near the most common pathing for the Navray to the All Buy and an easier to find location.

Ammo Issue: You can by a TL 3 Grenade Launcher, but you cannot my any ammo for it. The Cannon Ammo vendor is right next to the Cannon & Melee Weapons vendor.

I feel the above issues could potentially drive away new players do to frustration :(

Jones Mission: It appears there are no class missions for TG players don't get class missions. more an FYI then anything. :P
24-06-14, 10:01
Trivaldi

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthego

Navray: Setting your Navray to locate the ALL Buy still send you to the old YO's location (now the RSM's) this can be very misleading as the all by is now literally on the opposite side of the map.

Looking into this issue last night and I think it may be connected to this really irritating 'bug'. A lot of the NavRay works using the location of NPCs or Objects but it appears that some routes use a different system, which our tool-set sadly does not yet cater for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthego

All buy: Still very hard to find. He is present but is off the beaten path and may be difficult for new players to locate. Possible solution: swap him (and his drom :D) with the High Tech Pistol Smuggler. This would also put him near the most common pathing for the Navray to the All Buy and an easier to find location.

Great idea in the interim!

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthego

Ammo Issue: You can by a TL 3 Grenade Launcher, but you cannot my any ammo for it. The Cannon Ammo vendor is right next to the Cannon & Melee Weapons vendor.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I'll put it on the list and hopefully squeeze it into the next patch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthego

Jones Mission: It appears there are no class missions for TG players don't get class missions. more an FYI then anything. :P

Mr Jones is currently deactivated for TG (and CM), a Canyon Facility specific mission is in development (with an MB one in planning stages).

These are all important things and will hopefully make life easier when it comes to re-developing Tech Haven when the time comes.