Raise the runspeed cap

As it is now, tanks and APU's are completely un-viable in OP fighting. They have no real escape and short of being on the fortunate side of the defenders, you're going to be targeted first, and be unable to even dodge shots let alone escape.

I had no issue with the last patch, other than people who went out of their way to abuse the lack of a run speed cap. People who kept normal setups weren't impossible to hit, and provided more of a challenge to kill. Tanks were able to run away from fights, sometimes they would be killed, sometimes not. They at least had the ability to escape.

The last server fight at Simmons really made it sink in with me, and hopefully others. We called tank and APU targets first and they all dropped within a matter of seconds. They stood no chance.

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Originally Posted by Strife

As it is now, tanks and APU's are completely un-viable in OP fighting. They have no real escape and short of being on the fortunate side of the defenders, you're going to be targeted first, and be unable to even dodge shots let alone escape.

I had no issue with the last patch, other than people who went out of their way to abuse the lack of a run speed cap. People who kept normal setups weren't impossible to hit, and provided more of a challenge to kill. Tanks were able to run away from fights, sometimes they would be killed, sometimes not. They at least had the ability to escape.

The last server fight at Simmons really made it sink in with me, and hopefully others. We called tank and APU targets first and they all dropped within a matter of seconds. They stood no chance.

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I completely agree.

I can only effectively use my tank in defending OPS because as soon as I am a focus target - I can use the UG and heal up.
People complain about stealth abuse - which means spies don't get targetted.

Maybe the actual answer is to add bigger penalties to stealth?

This way Spies can't be so aggressive/

I personally don't think it needs raising, as it just avoids the issue of actually balancing classes/weapons. Maybe as temporary solution, but not permanent. Again, I don't know what changed between 2.1 -> 2.2 but the game is all over the place at the moment. Having a spy as practically the only OP/pvp viable class (except of course PPUs) doesn't make sense to me.

Again, in this scenario, replace spy with APU and you have the monk-o-cron cries from years back.

Strife... this is not about the runspeed being too low.. it is about dissy spies being too uber.

Weapon Balancing needs a fix.

You can be at max run speed with 0 spec'd into agility. To me that sounds like an issue

Balancing weapon damage needs to be done, but the problem still arises that you have no possibility of escape, and instead of dying in 7 seconds from 5 spies shooting at you, you'll die in 11 seconds. I wouldn't call that balanced or a fix.

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Strife... this is not about the runspeed being too low.. it is about dissy spies being too uber.

Weapon Balancing needs a fix.

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Wrong, that's a separate issue. You can nerf dissy all you want, a focused target with crawling speed and no escape is dead in a matter of seconds.

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Originally Posted by Strife

You can be at max run speed with 0 spec'd into agility. To me that sounds like an issue

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Have they changed the HC run mallus then? My tank has the same ath/agi as before the patch, and i'm now insanely slow, but there's no way I can't be capping my runspeed in this case?

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Originally Posted by Strife

Wrong, that's a separate issue. You can nerf dissy all you want, a focused target with crawling speed and no escape is dead in a matter of seconds.

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...So as it always was before 2.2?
No, weapons need balancing. Not the silly runspeeds we had before.

And btw, its not a hardcap on speed, it is a softcap. My tank is still pretty fast..

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Originally Posted by Strife

You can be at max run speed with 0 spec'd into agility. To me that sounds like an issue

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I agree that capping runspeed with 0 in agi is rather nuts. The idea though is that you are taking a redflash, whiteflash, paratemol forte and paratemol x-forte, and a few pts in athletics.

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Originally Posted by Dropout

...So as it always was before 2.2?
No, weapons need balancing. Not the silly runspeeds we had before.

And btw, its not a hardcap on speed, it is a softcap. My tank is still pretty fast..

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I didn't say put the run speed how it was. A softcap can mean nearly anything. Running an extra 2inches/minute for every 20 agility past 180 doesn't mean shit. With extensive testing I've seen no evidence that it's a simple softcap. My 160 agil spy runs as fast as my ~60agility

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Originally Posted by Strife

I didn't say put the run speed how it was. A softcap can mean nearly anything. Running an extra 2inches/minute for every 20 agility past 180 doesn't mean shit. With extensive testing I've seen no evidence that it's a simple softcap. My 160 agil spy runs as fast as my ~60agility

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•The existing speed cap has been adjusted so speed tapers off more dramatically at higher livels of agility and athletics. Players with extreme speed setups will see a reduction of speed.

Whas what were in the patchnotes. How much ATL Counts towards speed compared to AGL, I do not know though.
My tank is not slow, but when drugged he is at about 135 ATL.

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Originally Posted by Dropout

•The existing speed cap has been adjusted so speed tapers off more dramatically at higher livels of agility and athletics. Players with extreme speed setups will see a reduction of speed.

Whas what were in the patchnotes. How much ATL Counts towards speed compared to AGL, I do not know though.
My tank is not slow, but when drugged he is at about 135 ATL.

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Do you op fight? P2 isn't a real judge of the state of PvP. (not saying it to be an ass)

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Originally Posted by Strife

Do you op fight? P2 isn't a real judge of the state of PvP. (not saying it to be an ass)

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I should totally put a disclaimer in my sig, that say that I dont - just so I dont have to say it in every post thats about balancing :p
No offence taken mate. I do not opfight currently, and yeah I have no doubt that tanks have a very hard time in opfights atm.

But before 2.2 there was a speed cap aswell - which is why I would rather see some weapon balancing, than a bandaid solution..
The worst part about the speed nerf though, was that before it, spys were the main problem (they were so fast, it was close to impossible to hit them, unless you had a fast freq (not burst) weapon). And sadly, the speed nerf, hit them the least.. :(

I would suggest the following:

1.) Spec some Resists and make a proper CON-Setup

2.) Let's wait for a weapon balancing patch. Disruptor and AK (and burst weapons with more than 2 shots per burst in general) do obviously too much damage.

I was thinking about this issue and came up with a somewhat different source to our problem.

Initial problem is class balancing.

For instance, if we take a tank and spy and make them shoot one another while standing, there should, in my opinion, be a clear, consistent winner.

Question is basically, should the spy's DPS be so high that the tank will drop, or should the tank's resist and HP make the tank come out on top ? (of course setup customization plays a role, but that role should limited and falling within the pre-defined boundaries of a given class).

The line here is blurred, and I have a feeling the DEV team has no position on this, nor do they consider this factor.

To me though, this is basic, game mechanics-defining rules.

From my gaming experience, I would recommend that pvp be based on class, rather than weapon type or weapon TL.

Make some clear rules regarding the 3 basic class-specific, pvp-relevant aspects which are : Runspeed, Damage Output, and Damage Intake.