Remove XP class bias - equalize XP gain per action?

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10-12-12, 22:40
Izeo

Remove XP class bias - equalize XP gain per action?
When I made a new monk, I was desperate to at least level my STR and DEX just a little bit, so I could use the basic implants and some decent armor and such. (I wanted to use the Metalplated vest, not Spirit Armor, since I was mainly fighting aggressors). What made sense to me was to use melee attacks - that's surely STR/DEX right - just for one or two levels. I went in the sewer and started punching spiders. I had discovered that I was getting zero EXP (across the board - all skills - zero exp) for killing dozens of spiders, even though I was still low enough level to receive the full credit reward for the kills, and I thought it was a bug, and made a bug report thread on it.

One of the replies to the thread said that they did indeed gain some EXP for using their fists and stiletto, so I went and tried again. I still received literally 0 EXP for most kills, but, some of the slightly higher enemies, like Poisonous Fierce Spider, gave me a miniscule amount of EXP - something around 11 EXP for killing 10 of them.

I did an experiment just now and these were the results:
- On a low-level tank with 13 STR
- Using a TL-10 Tsurugaoka sword
- Which deals 7 damage per hit to aggressor captains
For killing 5 Aggressor Captains (completely alone) I received:
1. 2265 STR xp
2. 710 DEX xp
.. and then, switching characters ..
- On a mid-level monk with 19 STR
- Using a TL-17 rusty double-edged sword
- Which deals 12 damage per hit to aggressor captains
For killing 5 Aggressor Captains (completely alone) I received:
1. 212 STR xp
2. 206 DEX xp
.. to verify, I switched weapons ..
- On the same monk with 19 STR
- Using a TL-29 unlabeled electro shocker
- Which deals 14 damage per hit to aggressor captains
For killing 5 Aggressor Captains (completely alone) I received:
1. 206 STR xp
2. 197 DEX xp
The issue is I am getting an impossibly low amount of XP on a character who has more STR and DEX than the other one, using a better weapon than the other one, and even doing twice the damage per hit.

So I feel if a Monk, PE, or Spy casts a spell on a mob, dealing 30 damage, every class should get the exact same amount of PSI exp. The same should apply for using H-C weapons (any class), melee, pistols, rifles, and all tradeskills too. If a tank wants to level his INT by researching, he should be able to, and he should get the exact same exp that a spy would get for doing the same TL research.

In chat the other day I saw someone say something like, "I'm a spy, and I'm using H-C weapons to level my str, but I'm not getting any str exp. but that should work in theory.. right?" I don't think that guy was dumb for trying that. It's sensible to believe that it should work, since every skill is available to every class.

What I mean is, why does the game allow a spy to spec H-C, if he doesn't get any (or terribly small) exp for using the H-C skill?

If it were equalized, this may solve a few problems like spies not being able to level STR and monks being nearly forced to level DEX by repairing rhinos?
10-12-12, 23:03
Forget My Name

As a monk/spy, I have to repair vehicles to gain strength and dexterity... That is just wrong as your primary source of exp. This just break my immersion in the game.

I mean, as a tank I gain INT by leveling normally. I don't have to read books to raise INT as a Tank.

I agree with you overall.
11-12-12, 12:14
William Antrim

I am not disagreeing but do you know what psi/int gain your monk received from using said weapon? The reason I ask is because you stated the Tank gained 2265 xp and that is all good but that is his primary stat. I think that the primary stats xp gain will be a partially determining factor in the level of your xp share. This ought to be included for comparison's sake.
11-12-12, 14:54
CMaster

Psi from using a melee weapon William? 0.
Melee gives str/dex (it should give int as melee now uses Wep, but I'm not sure if it does)
Only things that give psi XP are using spells, team XP received by a monk or PE, and missions.

Anyway, the question has to be asked: Why do we have learning rates on XP? How do they help gameplay? Would we be better off if we just scrapped them over all, and focussed XP tweaking on task, as a system like NC suggests should be the case, rather than taking the XP from the task and buggering around with it.

At the same time, make all classes get team XP like PEs do, to end the reparing nonsense alluded to above by Forget My Name.
11-12-12, 16:11
Izeo

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Antrim

I am not disagreeing but do you know what psi/int gain your monk received from using said weapon? The reason I ask is because you stated the Tank gained 2265 xp and that is all good but that is his primary stat. I think that the primary stats xp gain will be a partially determining factor in the level of your xp share. This ought to be included for comparison's sake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMaster

Psi from using a melee weapon William? 0.
Melee gives str/dex (it should give int as melee now uses Wep, but I'm not sure if it does)
Only things that give psi XP are using spells, team XP received by a monk or PE, and missions.

Anyway, the question has to be asked: Why do we have learning rates on XP? How do they help gameplay? Would we be better off if we just scrapped them over all, and focussed XP tweaking on task, as a system like NC suggests should be the case, rather than taking the XP from the task and buggering around with it.

At the same time, make all classes get team XP like PEs do, to end the reparing nonsense alluded to above by Forget My Name.

Thanks for the input guys, and valid question William. CMaster is correct - 0 psi/int exp rewarded in that experiment.

Now, if my monk and my tank both had the exact same STR, the same M-C, and the exact same weapon, I could find the exact "xp multiplier" that is added to the tank or monk.

Using the two weapons I received 212 str xp and 206 str xp from 5 captains. On my tank, I got 2265 str xp. Let's just round up and say that I got 226 str xp on the monk. That means that: if you're on a monk, your str xp received is automatically multiplied by 0.10, or, if you're on a tank, your str xp is automatically multiplied by 10.0 - or something in between - same result.

But the above is not actually true, because I actually had more STR on my monk than on my tank, and a weapon twice as good. This means, the multiplier is even worse! If I lowered my monks stats to have the same stats as my tank, and gave my monk the tank's Tsuru sword and did the experiment again with the nerfed damage, I would no doubt receive even less str xp on the monk, because of doing less damage per hit.

I would also like to know the answer to CMaster's question. I don't know what the purpose of nerfing skill gains on activities, dependent on class is, and I actually never fully realized this feature existed, because I always played a tank or a spy. So, I always assumed it was harder to level STR on my spy because, of course, my spy doesn't use H-C/M-C weapons, duh! But, it seems that even if you intentionally made a M-C/H-C spy to quickly level your STR, that wouldn't exactly work, which, again I'm not sure of the purpose.