Why do PPU's have offensive spells?

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09-12-12, 14:05
Ascension

Why do PPU's have offensive spells?

I haven't played since NC 2, but recently capped my APU, after a little PvP fun in VR2, it seems something is bizarrely wrong with things.

There were a couple of guys to fight, some of us died, some of them died, however the moment the only character left was PPU on their side the firing went silent. Why? Well we didn't have a ppu with us to debuff the PPU... realising this we thought there is little point attacking the PPU.

Antibuff (or whatever 3 spells you call it now) are offensive spells!

What was so wrong about APU's having debuff, its a pretty frustrating class to play, to which you accept your going to potentially ie a lot unless your accompanied by a PPU wherever you go.

So as well as having frequency nerfed to hell, you took one of the most important roles from an APU. The power you had at an Op fight with antibuff took away some of the pain of potentially dying so quick.
09-12-12, 14:10
Chuck Norris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascension

I haven't played since NC 2, but recently capped my APU, after a little PvP fun in VR2, it seems something is bizarrely wrong with things.

There were a couple of guys to fight, some of us died, some of them died, however the moment the only character left was PPU on their side the firing went silent. Why? Well we didn't have a ppu with us to debuff the PPU... realising this we thought there is little point attacking the PPU.

Antibuff (or whatever 3 spells you call it now) are offensive spells!

What was so wrong about APU's having debuff, its a pretty frustrating class to play, to which you accept your going to potentially ie a lot unless your accompanied by a PPU wherever you go.

So as well as having frequency nerfed to hell, you took one of the most important roles from an APU. The power you had at an Op fight with antibuff took away some of the pain of potentially dying so quick.

I agree with you one hundred precent on this, this seems to contribute to not wanting to take your LE out till cap/LOM; due to viability in pv5 imho.

Aslo Pve and Pvp setups for resists are completely different depending on mob type and what player weapon type dmg
09-12-12, 14:12
Xiphias

I think the idea was trying to make APU's less important to OP wars. However, all they have done is made PPU's more important to OP wars.

I think someone has had far too much cannabis.
09-12-12, 14:23
Ascension

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiphias

I think the idea was trying to make APU's less important to OP wars. However, all they have done is made PPU's more important to OP wars.

I think someone has had far too much cannabis.

So as well as destroying psi module frequency they took away antibuff too? If i'm out on my own and see an enemy PPU, all I can do is keep on walking, why? Because I can't touch them.
09-12-12, 14:27
Xiphias

Nah, roll a Spy/Tank and get some WOC weapons... that you can't get at the moment.
09-12-12, 18:38
Dribble Joy

APUs with anti-buffs meant there was 'no reason' to bring along any other class - Monk-o-cron.

Give a class something like anti-buffs and they become a necessity. Just look at WoW where you need tanks, aggro pullers, debuffers, dmg dealers and healers.

Teams of any composition need to be viable against any other team of any other composition. If there's less reason to bring a certain class, people won't.
So you either give the dmg dealing classes nothing, meaning any of them can turn up and be useful, or you give all of them something to do, which means you end up with cookie cuttering on a team scale.
09-12-12, 18:39
Faid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascension

So as well as destroying psi module frequency they took away antibuff too?

Don't forget they also added a reticle. Essentially nerfing the APU so hard that it killed the class.
09-12-12, 22:39
William Antrim

This is why I said Tanks/Spies/PE should have antibuff.
09-12-12, 23:35
Ascension

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

APUs with anti-buffs meant there was 'no reason' to bring along any other class - Monk-o-cron.

Give a class something like anti-buffs and they become a necessity. Just look at WoW where you need tanks, aggro pullers, debuffers, dmg dealers and healers.

Teams of any composition need to be viable against any other team of any other composition. If there's less reason to bring a certain class, people won't.
So you either give the dmg dealing classes nothing, meaning any of them can turn up and be useful, or you give all of them something to do, which means you end up with cookie cuttering on a team scale.

I rolled an APU on Titan as its the class I've played since I joined the game in 2003, but since capping I've noticed the class is a shadow of what it used to be. I'll admit the rate of fire was insane but now there is zero point of the APU class, you might as well roll a HC Tank and enjoy the prospect of walking away if someone gets the jump on you.
09-12-12, 23:36
Ascension

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faid

Don't forget they also added a reticle. Essentially nerfing the APU so hard that it killed the class.

I can deal with that, but coupled with all the other 'nerfs' its worse than all the people crying about PE's.
10-12-12, 11:55
phunqe

Yeah I don't like this role either. I was a PPU since a long time back starting NC1 and it doesn't feel right. I don't even like putting the modules on the quick bar becuase they take up space form "proper" modules.

I don't know really, it might even deter me from PvPing with the PPU in the future. Being forced into something really doesn't rock my boat.

EDIT: Given the changes to PPUs, like foreign cast I don't see the reason for antibuffs to start with. Sure, you won't be able to take a PPU down, but on the other hand they can't do anything either. The current situation forces you do bring a PPU anyway becuase of the antibuff so why do we have them (antibuffs) in the first place? It just feels like a layer put on top that doesn't really add any balancing value?
11-12-12, 19:51
ancient

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascension

Why do PPU's have offensive spells?

None of them offend me.

(sry couldn't help my self)

I think they did it to take away power from apu's when they were overpowered, it's how things used to get fixed, not by addressing the actual problem, but by doing a quick fix that in the long run buggers up more things.

I'd diferant now and the changes are actually making sense for once. I'm actualy ok with ppu's having anti buff, but it does kinda leave apu's as a boring easy class to play (assuming they become playable again in pvp).
11-12-12, 19:53
Izeo

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunqe

EDIT: Given the changes to PPUs, like foreign cast I don't see the reason for antibuffs to start with. Sure, you won't be able to take a PPU down, but on the other hand they can't do anything either. The current situation forces you do bring a PPU anyway becuase of the antibuff so why do we have them (antibuffs) in the first place? It just feels like a layer put on top that doesn't really add any balancing value?

That exactly sums up how I feel about it as well.
11-12-12, 21:27
Ascension

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancient

I'd diferant now and the changes are actually making sense for once. I'm actualy ok with ppu's having anti buff, but it does kinda leave apu's as a boring easy class to play (assuming they become playable again in pvp).

I would dare say APU's are far from an easy boring class to play, you have to be extremely selective about what fights you pick, and keep your wits about you at all times, unlike a tank if some gets the jump on you you're already at half health.

With the severe frequency nerf, providing you can aim pretty much every class can out damage an APU.
29-12-12, 03:49
phunqe

I will try to bring this to life again, because I feel it's very important and it genuinely concerns me.
If it would be possible to get a line from a developer what the current line of thought is, it would be awesome.

What it has boiled down to is that you basically bring (which then scales in size) one ppu for healing and buffing and one for antibuffing. I cannot wrap my head around this, is this really how it should be? I am honestly having a hard time finding people that think it is (unless I suck at asking a statistically correct group of people obviously).
In the old days you had to swap spells for buffing, which is fine. But swap around with all those antibuffs during combat?
I am not concerned about big clans having a stable of PPUs, that doesn't concern me at all. You pick what side you want and you make it work in one way or the other. What I am concerned about here is the gameplay, having a great time and that it doesn't make any sense (to me).

I've said in another thread that I feel antibuffs overall are a waste of time/resources, since I do think it would balance itself out without them (ppu population would eventually decrease in the favour of more dps classes), but I do understand the valid concerns about then not being able to take a PPU down no matter what.
Give the antibuffs back to the APUs? It seems that they were taken away from the APU in a series of balancing acts which as a whole, together with the aiming, just went over the top.
Maybe now things are in a place where the APUs can actually get the antibuffs back?

Can we please make sure this is not just filed in the "yap yap" drawer.

Thanks.