Suggestion that LEers will probably hate

This generally depends on why those using the LE do so.

Basically, the the idea is a partial return to NC1, with the LE giving an exp gain reduction. If you're here to PvM, then with NC's (hopefully to be at least partly restored) quick leveling speed, you're not going to be doing much untill you cap. So in a sense it's not only about rewarding people for removing it, but about giving those who use it more time to do what they want.

LE tradeskillers I am unsure about. Non-LE traders (those in a clan) have removed their LE and leave themselves open to attack, more so as they are unable to defend themselves. On the other hand they don't really open themselves to attack and they're a bit daft if they do and it doesn't help the LEed tradeskillers if all the non-LEed ones are all better than them.

I've always thought there should be a big incentive for removing the LE too rather than allowing people to keep it in with no penalty. A slight experience decrease was never enough of a penalty IMO either, it didn't really make much of a difference. More should be done to make people focus on the end-game activies, which is basically PvP, rather than PvM.

At the moment it's as if a big leap has been taken backwards in regards to PvP, with currently unbalanced PvM (which will hopefully be changed soon), and mass of new rare tech parts added into the equation. More grinding, less fun PvPing.

Btw, techs are easy to get if you know where to go.

Just some questions i dont understand:

Why does a non-LEer even care about the penalties of a LE wearing player?
Why is there this trend to moan for more features but the constant whish to take away one doesnt use.
What do you expect from this change?
Wouldn't that not increase the difficulty for new players to find their way in Neocron thus increasing the chance to scare them away before they get to the point that they serve you some PvP action?

Agreed Dribble. Techs are very easy to get if you know your stuff.

Anyways, i think it would be a great idea to bring it back. I thought it was crap that LEs had no penalty the day NC2 came out.

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Originally Posted by Mighty Max

Why does a non-LEer even care about the penalties of a LE wearing player?

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Because it works both ways, why should an LEer maintain many of the benefits of non-LE use without the risks/downsides?

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Why is there this trend to moan for more features but the constant whish to take away one doesnt use.

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Removal and alteration are different thing. I dislike stealth, and I hate using it, but I don't want it removed, I just want it changed.

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What do you expect from this change?

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Greater incentive for people to remove it.

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Wouldn't that not increase the difficulty for new players to find their way in Neocron thus increasing the chance to scare them away before they get to the point that they serve you some PvP action?

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Perhaps. Though it depends on whether you think people will want to remove it and run the risk of PvP when they aren't ready in order to gain from the removal's benefits, or not.

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Originally Posted by Apocalypsox

Anyways, i think it would be a great idea to bring it back. I thought it was crap that LEs had no penalty the day NC2 came out.

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You play the same game, dont you?

No penalties?
- No Clanning (thus no Clanboni for OPs, drastically reducing skillpoints for tradeskillers)
- Less slots for Implants (thus again less boni in skills)
- Less team support
- No PvP

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You won't magically turn a non-PvPer into a PvPer by this mean, if that is what you want. You should rather concentrate on featuring some fair PvP action they want to join to change their mind instead of nerfing and pushing them away.

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Greater incentive for people to remove it.

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This is not what will come in return. A Nerf (and this is one) allways reduces dynamic instead of increasing it.

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Originally Posted by Mighty Max

You play the same game, dont you?

No penalties?
- No Clanning (thus no Clanboni for OPs, drastically reducing skillpoints for tradeskillers)
- Less slots for Implants (thus again less boni in skills)
- Less team support
- No PvP

....

You won't magically turn a non-PvPer into a PvPer by this mean, if that is what you want. You should rather concentrate on featuring some fair PvP action they want to join to change their mind instead of nerfing and pushing them away.


This is not what will come in return. A Nerf (and this is one) allways reduces dynamic instead of increasing it.

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thumbs up!

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Originally Posted by Mighty Max

You won't magically turn a non-PvPer into a PvPer by this mean, if that is what you want. You should rather concentrate on featuring some fair PvP action they want to join to change their mind instead of nerfing and pushing them away.

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Again, it's a matter of if you think this will push them away or or incite them to join you. I'm more on the side of the latter.

In the end I'm not personally fussed about this issue when it really comes down to it. But I think this is a debate that needs to put out there once in a while.

To add to the list of LE negatives:

-No belt hacking/retrieving




An xp neg would be, like mighty max said, unbalancing and pushing noobs away even more. What would the point be in getting all the tradeskillers to remove the le? Someone need to get free kills?

Everytime I see this re-hashed idea I'm going to disagree with it on these forums. Why? Lets see:

• Now more than ever, the loss of a 4th brainslot is a massive penalty in itself.
• LE'd PPUs are still not too common (granted there are a couple). Again, with the stupid strength of mobs, this is also a massive malus
• The same applies to not being able to join a clan
• New runners level far too fast, lets slow that down too :rolleyes:
• There are a community of LE runners that have no intention of removing it. Why do they need to be penalised on the whim of runners from the non-LE side. WoC is a pita for anybody, why should it take even longer just because a user wants to wear an LE?

I'm sure theres many more reasons against, but lets put that aside and look at what this suggestion offers. See, everytime I see this argument, there is usually stupid reasoning or no reasoning whatsoever behind it. Stupid reasoning includes, but is not limited to quotes such as "If people want to have an LE and shittalk/be carebears/are too afraid of getting owned then they should suffer a penalty". What does this actually offer anyone at all? More noobs to gank for the non LE runners? I really don't see the point at all.

And before anyone says it, no I'm not a perma-LE runner, I have one or two that I use for tech hunting purposes, that aren't equipped nor designed for PvP. Admittedly with 2.2 they don't do PvE well either but thats neither here nor there.

I'm not having a go, but I don't see any positive reasoning at all behind this idea. Thumbs down.

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Originally Posted by Archtemplar

To add to the list of LE negatives:

-No belt hacking/retrieving

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But on the other hand no belt loss.

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An xp neg would be, like mighty max said, unbalancing and pushing noobs away even more. What would the point be in getting all the tradeskillers to remove the le? Someone need to get free kills?

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Do non-LE tradeskilers run about in OP fights or hang around MB zone line?

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Originally Posted by Obsidian X

[*]New runners level far too fast, lets slow that down too :rolleyes:

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Level 0-30 leveling speed could be kept at the same speed, LE or not.

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[*]There are a community of LE runners that have no intention of removing it. Why do they need to be penalised on the whim of runners from the non-LE side. WoC is a pita for anybody, why should it take even longer just because a user wants to wear an LE?[/list]

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My personal opinion would be that as a LEer I would not want to level up through the game in a matter of weeks and be done with it.

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See, everytime I see this argument, there is usually stupid reasoning or no reasoning whatsoever behind it. Stupid reasoning includes, but is not limited to quotes such as "If people want to have an LE and shittalk/be carebears/are too afraid of getting owned then they should suffer a penalty". What does this actually offer anyone at all? More noobs to gank for the non LE runners? I really don't see the point at all.

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Using stupid as a method of debate hardly promotes your position.
Yes there are reasonings for LE negatives that are based purely on the desires of those non-LE users who want nothing more to kill anything that cannot fight back, as in the end they're little more than bullies and probably (in all likelyhood literally) get off on doing it.
Addressing those reasonings/people however, and not those which/who are trying to find a real balance between the two groups of users, is not going to resolve the situation, and is going to drive them appart further. LE users, as much as non-LE users, can be equally aggrogant, defensive and unwilling to see things from the other side.

Perhaps my idea of (partially) playing the devil here and getting a debate was pointless, as people just aren't going to move from the trenches they have dug, either because they can't or won't.

Appologies if that was all a bit blunt.

I think we should ban Dribble Joy that takes care if this topic.

Drib has contributed to NC far more than you ever have Kane. I think we should ban you not being productive :o

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

Do non-LE tradeskilers run about in OP fights or hang around MB zone line?

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Yes, to both. I use ops and have been in the middle of op battles while doing RES or CST at the op's GG. Typically I'm there before they start and I stay until someone toggles the op's status.

I also hunt in J_01/J_02, along with my CM using HN to ring through Mil Base on my way to other location. I pass the zoneline stupidity at least once a day when I play.

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My personal opinion would be that as a LEer I would not want to level up through the game in a matter of weeks and be done with it.

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Some of us do not care to level up in a "matter of weeks". Some of us play the game as intended. We don't all find the shortest route to cap and then stick to it. It took me 16 months to cap my main. I have no other capped chars. I obviously don't care all that much about capping in the fastest manner possible.

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Perhaps my idea of (partially) playing the devil here and getting a debate was pointless, as people just aren't going to move from the trenches they have dug, either because they can't or won't.

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Why would I want to? You want me to effectively play PlanetSide. I do not wish to play PlanetSide. If I did, I'd play PlanetSide.

I reserve the right to be a lone player who interacts with who I want, when I want, with what faction I want. I reserve the right to ignore stupid gankers by simply standing there. I reserver the right to keep my vehicles intact by simply getting in them. It's what I pay for. Stop meddling with my fun just becasue your fun sucks.