Dev aim cap or drugs need a change

I'm sure we've all seen this happening, people using about 10 drugs to get the max aim on a dev meaning almost instant lock while having a ppu ready to rez them when the drug flash hits so theres no downside. Something needs to change cos its getting ridiculous (well it got there a while ago).

The whole point of the dev is that it does huge damage but doesn't hit often, drugging to holy hell though means the downside is gone and you're just left with absolutely insane damage. SO to fix this either the aim needs a new cap in the balance so it can't be drugged up to almost instant or drugs need changing so they don't give stats like wep lore, personally I think thats the best option as its common place now for people to just use 10+ drugs and get a rez when the flash starts which removes the entire downside while giving a huge pvp advantage to people with lots of money to spend on drugs.

Another fix would be put more downsides into drugs, for example ones which improve aim/damage reduce your resists so you are chosing to enchance 1 thing over another, right now its all big bonuses which is meant to be kept in check by a long DF, but of course people worked out how to avoid the DF years ago.

instant lock? play with a dev and then talk again.
10 drugs? wtf most people use 4.... and there are only 3 drugs ingame for aim. None uses the 300 secs drugs, probably some pp-noob but not in real fights
why do you want to change drugs? probably they should lower what they give over all, but no negativ effect or something, neocron is all about druging ;)

Theres 3 high end drugs for it but you can use the lower ones as well to cap the aim and get a almost instant lock with the dev, trust me I've tested it in the past and you can test it yourself. Yes the ones which last less time are more annoying to use but if you have enough money and a barterer / recycle to get them easily theres really no downside, just do the standard thing these days of a second account for your ppu to rezz and get rid of the df and all you get is the huge bonus which takes away the only downside the dev has.

Drugs have always been ridiculous, they are just a huge flat out bonus which means people who can't afford lots of them suffer as do people who haven't made a second account with a ppu. Perhaps if you couldn't just die and get a rezz to avoid the DF they would be better but right now there is no downside to using drugs just huge buffs which will win fights for you.

Ye i was curious about a tank yesterday too i made a little drunk run in pepperpark. I was just running away and while this the other tank hardly misses. For me even if i kneel infront of an enemy whos 5 metres away and keep my lock for over 1 second, my dev doesnt hit. Stupid agl aim factor.

ps: beside this i support somekind of drug restriction like we already have for nanites injections. :)

The Dev is only a viable option when you cap aim so you can hit often. To do this, you need drugs and wep lore chips (in most cases). If you restrict the use of drugs or put negative effects or raise the aim cap on dev so it's unreachable then no one will use a dev. The better solution would be to actually balance the devs damage.

And I would argue that the downside of heavily drugging is having to die and get rezzed. You're out of the fight for a few mins, and if your DF happens to hit in the middle of a fight you're dead.

But what I think Barney is trying to say is that the Dev is considerably out of balance when aim cap is reached. So it needs rebalancing... like everything else.

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Originally Posted by Faid

The Dev is only a viable option when you cap aim so you can hit often. To do this, you need drugs and wep lore chips (in most cases). If you restrict the use of drugs or put negative effects or raise the aim cap on dev so it's unreachable then no one will use a dev. The better solution would be to actually balance the devs damage.

And I would argue that the downside of heavily drugging is having to die and get rezzed. You're out of the fight for a few mins, and if your DF happens to hit in the middle of a fight you're dead.

But what I think Barney is trying to say is that the Dev is considerably out of balance when aim cap is reached. So it needs rebalancing... like everything else.

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Indeed, the whole point of the dev is its hard to hit but does insane damage when it does, but with drugs and buffs its very easy to completely negate that downside making it just the best possible weapon to use, theres literally no reason to use any other weapon when you cap the devs aim, it does more damage a hit than anything else and does another huge amount in poison/fire damage (making it perfect for killing allies and neutrals with no downside).

As for drugs though I still think they need a rebalance, some kind of limit on how many you can use perhaps. Right now people just pop drugs like they're candy and suffer no downside, needing a rezz isn't a downside when it takes about 30 seconds via the ppu everybody has parked over the zoneline.

if its that easy to use on a tank with full set of drugs just do it... i think its a bit easier to hit but still a cs tank can own me when he just got a bit of movement. Why dev is that strong atm is that most of the people just dont spec fire cause there are no apus around and no other weapon does fire dmg.

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Originally Posted by Dasore

if its that easy to use on a tank with full set of drugs just do it... i think its a bit easier to hit but still a cs tank can own me when he just got a bit of movement. Why dev is that strong atm is that most of the people just dont spec fire cause there are no apus around and no other weapon does fire dmg.

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Thats a complete lie, I've specced a nice all around setup getting all the resists to a minimum of 50% with some on 55-60% and ti STILL slaughters me because it just does such insane damage and the poison ticks hurt like hell (Even at 50% poison resist). Its so strong right now because people drug up so much they cap it so they hit easily and the insane damage was based on it hardly ever hitting.

If you had 2 tanks with the same con setup fight, 1 with a capped CS 1 with a capped dev and they just traded blows the dev would most likely win 100% of the time, at the VERY least it would be a draw as the poison from the dev would result in death even if the dev tank died first. Hell the dev tank would be more balanced if it didn't have the mega ticks of death, the initial damage is done is on par with a CS, the tick then seems to do that damage again

*sigh*

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Originally Posted by DIABLO666

If you had 2 tanks with the same con setup fight, 1 with a capped CS 1 with a capped dev and they just traded blows the dev would most likely win 100% of the time, at the VERY least it would be a draw as the poison from the dev would result in death even if the dev tank died first. Hell the dev tank would be more balanced if it didn't have the mega ticks of death, the initial damage is done is on par with a CS, the tick then seems to do that damage again

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Alright.. First of all, if two tanks were just trading blows - A higher TL and much harder to use weapon like Dev vs. a lower TL and easy to use weapon like CS - The Dev tank SHOULD win.. And honestly, Im not sure that the Dev tank would win it.. CS in its current state is MUCH better than Dev is.


About the aiming thing. Dev is USABLE with capped aim. It is still hard to use, and you need to be very fucking close to your target.
CS is easy to aim with, can be used at pretty good range, and does a ton of damage.

And if you dont believe that Dev is hard to use with capped aim - try it. I dont care about what you have tried in the past, try it now.
And in an actual combat scenario, not just where you and your target stands still...

<sigh> I guess some people just want their OP toys, hopefully the weapon balance they're doing will include the dev.

I've tried it with capped aim and honestly its not that hard, especially when you 1 shot the legs with it making them even easier to hit. I'm forced to ask if you've ever played neocron, in games like planetside where fighting takes place at range as well as up close the close range requirement would matter, pretty much all neocron pvp takes place face to face though so you will always be at that very close range. The only place a dev is even slightly balanced is during ganking as you need to run across open ground to reach people, in OP or city fights you will always be close enough to easily hit (unless you have some kind of terrible build with no speed)

... why don't you two spar against each other some time?

Tho contradicting theories should be juxtaposed in practice.

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Originally Posted by DIABLO666

<sigh> I guess some people just want their OP toys, hopefully the weapon balance they're doing will include the dev.

I've tried it with capped aim and honestly its not that hard, especially when you 1 shot the legs with it making them even easier to hit. I'm forced to ask if you've ever played neocron, in games like planetside where fighting takes place at range as well as up close the close range requirement would matter, pretty much all neocron pvp takes place face to face though so you will always be at that very close range. The only place a dev is even slightly balanced is during ganking as you need to run across open ground to reach people, in OP or city fights you will always be close enough to easily hit (unless you have some kind of terrible build with no speed)

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I havent used Dev since the "speed nerf" so try again..
Im a CS user. I DO carry a Dev though, but only for killing rezzing PPU's.

And yes I have played NC for 8-10 years now. Pretty much all of that time has been spend on PvP.