View Full Version : About the "Known Bug"
So I'm playing NC here at work and it got dark in NC. Well conveniently the brightness and contrast options do fuck all in the brilliant windowed mode, so I closed up NC and attempted to switch back to Full Screen because guess what, windowed mode fucking sucks. I don't have a 21" monitor so I can play a game half ass for 4 months with a fucking taskbar and other shit showing. Way to immerse me in the game :rolleyes: "So hide the taskbar" - Yeah. I could do that. But I should not have to rearrange the way my computer's windows interface works because of a fucking 4+ month "bug".
So I hold shift and pick 1280x1024x32, ahh, back to the old, NORMAL way of playing. Just gotta be conscious not to alt+tab when I get an IM... or a Vent comment... or email... or for anything. Christ, that's annoying especially considering how long people play an MMORPG in one sitting. This isn't fucking Counterstrike where there's a "break" every 10 mins. So I pick the resolution, Neocron pops up, black screen takes over.... and nothing happens. Cute. Try again. And again. And again. And a different resolution. Check the ini file; everything seems to be in order. Try again. FUCK YOU. Copy the old ini file that was the craptastic windowed mode so I can at least get back in-game. Start up NC, Neocron window pops up... black screen. Wait.... wait.... 5 mins later, still black. Try again. Try changing the resolution in the ini file for the WindowedMode... nothing fucking works.
So here I am, with no NC CDs, so I can't reinstall, and you know what? That's bunch of fucking bullshit that I'll have to reinstall NC just to get it to work on this PC again anyway.
If you want to retain players or gain any between now and DoY, I think you guys need to reassert your priorities. This fucking sucks and gets more and more annoying every single launch of NC. I'm done playing NC until Sunday thank you very much because I don't have the CDs on me or the availability to download the install onto this computer, and it's all thanks to this "bug we didn't feel fixing because, hey, in 4 months it'll be gone". If DoY is delayed a few fucking weeks (like many of us are already assuming it will be) because you had to fix a bug now - and that removes PURE FRUSTRATION FOR 4 MONTHS STRAIGHT - then get to work.
If any other Software Developer left a "known bug" in their software for a "projected" four months... how professional do you think they'd be? Microsoft says "Hey, y'know C++ Visual Studio? Yeah, for 4 months if you use Control+O instead of File > Open, it's gonna crash. But we know what the problem is and will fix it in Visual Studio 2005." - I'm sure people would get a lot fucking done with that.
And chances are this thread will get a "mail helpdesk" reply, but hey, if the game continued to function properly, I wouldn't be here bitching, would I. With computer programs what they are today, half the time window focus is stolen whether you are prepared for it or not. Goodbye uninterrupted PvP, PvM, chatting, tradeskilling.
If you want a reason to delay DoY, this is as good a reason as any. Fix the DirectX issue please. Isn't it our monthly fees that pay for the whole reason why we're here?
Well, normally I'd say ``relax, KK's trying..blah blah blah..but I guess I'd be a hypocrite, because I'd lose it if NC did'nt work at all...
I cannot tell you how halfass this make the KK team look.
as if they could look like more of a halfass dev team after the things they have pulled this did indeed do it.
there really isnt much impotus for KK to fix NC problems atm, with the release of DOY, they are expecting lots of new people, so want to concentrate on that. Why support a game they are effectivly dumping in 4 months anyhow? I'm guessing their stance is "well, they will all come back for DOY anyhow".
If the bug is related to DirectX, then just remove what was stuck in, leave it till DOY (and remember, there will be a "classic" server, for original NC, so, will they have the same bug?)
at least you were able to play till now .. I can't even start up though i have no clue if it's really due to the patch .. i have one more test to run and then I can decide. If not .. I'm screwed for some reason. But it all happened after the two patches that were installed.
Wish me luck :p
Theres like what 4 months until doy? And this is how committed KK are in trying to make the game better until then :rolleyes:
there really isnt much impotus for KK to fix NC problems atm, with the release of DOY, they are expecting lots of new people, so want to concentrate on that. Why support a game they are effectivly dumping in 4 months anyhow? I'm guessing their stance is "well, they will all come back for DOY anyhow".
If the bug is related to DirectX, then just remove what was stuck in, leave it till DOY (and remember, there will be a "classic" server, for original NC, so, will they have the same bug?)
There is a reason.
You know why lexxuk, because seriously, how do we know that after DOY is released this bug wont still be there? how do we know ANY of the current bugs will be fixed completely? how do we know that there wont be even more bugs in the world.
I'm a long time player (since beta4) and remember the hype about retail, and how KK basically said the bugs arent an issue because once it went retail they were going to be gone.... now i ask you, if you were around for those days, do you remember that? and are the gone??
KK only have staff, and a small select group of players testing DOY, Beta4 was an open beta, we had more players on than now, do you REALLY expect the staff and this small group of players to do a better job??
I am going to have to vote to fix this, not because i could stand another delay however, i think it is more important to release DOY. BUT if NO more bugs are fixed before the release i dont see much hope of them fixing the current bugs if they still remain, on top of the new ones that i can guarentee will be there.
Disturbed021
29-05-04, 08:07
w/o doubt this bug should have never been introduced into retail.
w/o doubt this bug should have never been introduced into retail.
If it was so easy to fix then why hasn't it been?
Pease oh lords of uber programming and software engineeriing, tell us how to fix the alt+tab bug, because clearly, codi doesnt have the time to fuck around. They gave us a workaround for the bug, i dont think anyone on the test server has anything like this problem, afaik most got back in after the ran in windows mode, if this problem *as you describe it* had been found/existed on the test server, this patch would not have hit retail.
You want to blame someone blame yourself for not testing on the test server, for not notifying people of your bug, i am pleased to hear that that they explained why the bug exists in the patch notes, and gave us a workaround. The Direct x issues is due to the updating taking place before doy, would you prefer to have had no updates, no new content, no balancing *laughs* and no better fps?
You read the patch notes, it's your fault.
If it was so easy to fix then why hasn't it been?
Pease oh lords of uber programming and software engineeriing, tell us how to fix the alt+tab bug, because clearly, codi doesnt have the time to fuck around. They gave us a workaround for the bug, i dont think anyone on the test server has anything like this problem, afaik most got back in after the ran in windows mode, if this problem *as you describe it* had been found/existed on the test server, this patch would not have hit retail.
You want to blame someone blame yourself for not testing on the test server, for not notifying people of your bug, i am pleased to hear that that they explained why the bug exists in the patch notes, and gave us a workaround. The Direct x issues is due to the updating taking place before doy, would you prefer to have had no updates, no new content, no balancing *laughs* and no better fps?
You read the patch notes, it's your fault.
Classic denial. When all else fails blame the customers. If they cant do the job give it up to someone that can. Its clear that KK has problems dealing with what they have promised. whats new.
how about someone like me who can't login DUE to the recent patches. It had to be something related to what's happening to everyone mostly with the alt tab thing but since I have an oudated 3dfx card that I have no support for I will NEVER get a fix unless they fix it in a patch. But considering it's just me and most likely only me with this problem I'm crap out of luck :( I've emailed tech support but I highly doubt anything will be able to be done for this. and buying a new vid card "JUST" for neocron isn't something I would call a solution >_> so don't offer that . .lol. I have a p3 500mhz . a new vid card wont' help me play any of the new games that require min reqs twice my system specs or more. :D I can still play games I like alot like UT, Quake 2, shogo, and MOHAA . .oh well .. so be thankful you at LEAST have a work around :p
Classic denial. When all else fails blame the customers. If they cant do the job give it up to someone that can. Its clear that KK has problems dealing with what they have promised. whats new.
Who's in denial?
All i see in your post is more bitching about kk, no matter what they do they are damned, why bother.
I found that unsubscribing from Neocron works...
You read the patch notes, it's your fault.
How exactly is it the player's fault that the game is in this state? We are under no obligation to test or fix their product although many of us have done so for free in the past and some continue to do so now.
Many of us who do have experience, qualifications and knowledge in the relevant areas don't test anymore becuase the procedures on the TS render it pointless.
KK really need to be honest with people about what they are doing and what we can expect. On one hand we have MJS saying they are commited to the current game and on the other we have have patch notes saying that it will have to suffer for the sake of BDoY. It's not the bugs that anger people it's this kind poor communication and lack of respect for the players who keep this game going.
If they want us to suffer for them and their future product then they should be offering us something in return. As it is they are not only expecting us to help them out but blaming us for their mistakes. I find that unacceptable.
I think we're missing one point.
There will still be 'original' neocron servers, you know my opinion on the bug now, however my question is this, after doy goes live, will they bother fixing it?
Jernau, no we're under no obligation to test their patches, modifications, but if we all did then there'd be no problems would there. I don't see how they are blaming us, i'm saying that he read the patchnotes, he knew there were issues, he still did it, so it's his fault, sure we can goto the source and say that it's reakktors fault for not fixing it, but arent we just getting away from the thread starters mistake? Neocron is available to download, unless your on 56k then i suggest thats the best course of action for you.
I can appreciate that some of you want to blame reakktor for not keeping their shit in check, but regardless, they gave us fair warning, told us how to get around it, if they hadn't then my reaction would have changed, if it isn't fixed after doy goes live, then my reaction will change, for now im happy they told us.
For the record, windows mode > full screen.
steweygrrr
29-05-04, 13:31
For the record, windows mode > full screen.
Purely for the 30-40% increase in FPS, besides that it can be quite distracting
Purely for the 30-40% increase in FPS, besides that it can be quite distracting
Well that depends what your looking at at the same time doesnt it...... :D
:angel:
I think we're missing one point.
There will still be 'original' neocron servers, you know my opinion on the bug now, however my question is this, after doy goes live, will they bother fixing it?If my interpretation of their statement is right then the problem is caused by the fact they are moving systems onto the new platform (DX9). Our clients run on DX7 so there are incompatibilities. When DoY arrives we will have DX9 clients and the issue will vanish (in theory). I assume the "classic" server will also use the DX9 clients though with less features enabled.
Jernau, no we're under no obligation to test their patches, modifications, but if we all did then there'd be no problems would there.As long as they run the TS the way they do currently these problems are inevitable. That's why I no longer waste my time there.
I don't see how they are blaming us, i'm saying that he read the patchnotes, he knew there were issues, he still did it, so it's his fault, sure we can goto the source and say that it's reakktors fault for not fixing it, but arent we just getting away from the thread starters mistake? Neocron is available to download, unless your on 56k then i suggest thats the best course of action for you.Wrt my comment on blame - Several of the comments I have seen posted by KK in the last few days wrt the loot-drop bug (as an example) do at least imply it is the players fault for not reporting it. They may not say this outright but it certainly seems implied, to me at least.
As far as -FN- is concerned I think he has a serious bug there and he's not the only one - I believe the same thing has happened to one of my PCs. I haven't yet tried to figure out what the cause is because I can still play on other systems. I don't see anything in his post that says or implies he did anything he shouldn't have done considering the information given. It's possible that whatever they have done to cause the alt-tab issue has also caused other problems which they are/were unaware of.
Normally I'd say "leave it here", but knowing KK and that they fail most of their promises, I'd say fix it now, at least you'll have one more excuse why DOY isn't coming.
I don't see how they are blaming us, i'm saying that he read the patchnotes, he knew there were issues, he still did it, so it's his fault, sure we can goto the source and say that it's reakktors fault for not fixing it, but arent we just getting away from the thread starters mistake?
Could we have the "please dont download this patch onto my system, because I dont want a *known bug we couldnt be bothered to fix* messing up my game for me please" option? No, because that option does not exist, you either download the patch, or dont play.
If Ford released a service update for their cars, but said "a known bug means that if you do action X, you will crash, the update is mandatory, but we cant be bothered to fix it for 4 months, so either update, or dont drive" Ford would be hauled up before the DTi in seconds.
Same with any other manufacturer, you "cannot" release faulty goods, knowing them to be faulty, and a patch updates a game, so it is part of the goods. Sure MJS has said they are looking at it, but only because the vast majority of the now small community, is very annoyed at the bug. And with good reason, this patch took what? 2-3 months to arrive? Plenty of time for bug fixing, plenty of time to work around the bug etc. Instead we get, YAFUP (yet another f****d up patch)
Disturbed021
29-05-04, 19:57
If it was so easy to fix then why hasn't it been?
Pease oh lords of uber programming and software engineeriing, tell us how to fix the alt+tab bug, because clearly, codi doesnt have the time to fuck around. They gave us a workaround for the bug, i dont think anyone on the test server has anything like this problem, afaik most got back in after the ran in windows mode, if this problem *as you describe it* had been found/existed on the test server, this patch would not have hit retail.
You want to blame someone blame yourself for not testing on the test server, for not notifying people of your bug, i am pleased to hear that that they explained why the bug exists in the patch notes, and gave us a workaround. The Direct x issues is due to the updating taking place before doy, would you prefer to have had no updates, no new content, no balancing *laughs* and no better fps?
You read the patch notes, it's your fault.
If I read your response right u are blaming me or the ppl complaining about this bug for being there? I cant tell if that was sarcasm or not so if I missed it soz.
I test each patch on the test server and the alt + tab hasn't worked for weeks there while it worked fine on retail.
I'm not a programmer or a software engineer but I am a costumer that tested the patches, said alt + tab doesn't work on the ts (with several other ppl saying the same thing), I did exactly what they asked us to do. Test, report errors or potential errors.
KK says "aye, it is a bug and it's in there cause we put some stuff in there in prep of DoY, but we can't be assed to fix it right now. So play in windowed mode or don't try to alt + tab until DoY"
Granted FNs specific issue never came up on the ts afaik, but the main point of this thread is if you had this alt + tab bug on the ts only and not on retail, why the hell would you send it to retail b4 fixing it?
I never claimed it was easy to fix Oath, as I wouldn't have the first clue what is or isn't easy to fix, all I'm saying is a delay in a patch of a few weeks to fix this kind of bug would have been better than saying here's a work-around, now deal with it.
I'd personally be ok with the bug, if the reason behind the bug was something other than "we have better things to do atm."
If it was so easy to fix then why hasn't it been?
Pease oh lords of uber programming and software engineeriing, tell us how to fix the alt+tab bug, because clearly, codi doesnt have the time to fuck around. They gave us a workaround for the bug, i dont think anyone on the test server has anything like this problem, afaik most got back in after the ran in windows mode, if this problem *as you describe it* had been found/existed on the test server, this patch would not have hit retail.
You want to blame someone blame yourself for not testing on the test server, for not notifying people of your bug, i am pleased to hear that that they explained why the bug exists in the patch notes, and gave us a workaround. The Direct x issues is due to the updating taking place before doy, would you prefer to have had no updates, no new content, no balancing *laughs* and no better fps?
You read the patch notes, it's your fault.
It's not our job to fix it, we pay kk to do it for us
the test server is crap, for one reason above all, it isnt an exact mirror of retail neocron
thats why we see so many stupid fucking bugs, and a hotfix every patch
we dont have an option to patch or not, its patch and maybe play, or dont patch and definitely not play.
either way we still pay money
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