View Full Version : Jack of all trades PE What's Left?
The Spy can Sleath, Cloak now, Hack, and use all the Rifles like an expert. What is left for the PE, but Pistle and Hack is he not the Jack of all trades, able to use most of this stuff, but now what can he do?
awkward silence
28-05-04, 14:11
youre better of using a str setup spy
youre better of using a str setup spy
huh? :wtf:
huh? :wtf:
basically hes saying his PE is crap compared to a spy now, so play a str spy instead
Mumblyfish
28-05-04, 14:14
PEs were never the Jack of All Trades. They don't have enough skillpoints for that. PEs can, however, pick any weapon profession apart from PSI and excel in it, and still have awesome defense. Quit whinging.
basically hes saying his PE is crap compared to a spy now, so play a str spy instead
Except we all know that's total bollocks. PEs weren't crap before stealth was implemented, they aren't crap now.
PEs are piss easy to cap and by far the best class on their own. Theyre just not that good in opfights anymore.
But still can go r-c, p-c, m-c, h-c, even tradeskills or drones.
Except we all know that's total bollocks. PEs weren't crap before stealth was implemented, they aren't crap now.
exactly, they will be as good as they were before, but somepeople refuse to accept this
awkward silence
28-05-04, 14:20
A str setup pistol spy is even better at dueling than a pe.
If you say otherwise either your setup or your skill need a bit of a polish.
I have tested it at every angle fighting with and against a pistol spy against a similar pe.
Dribble Joy
28-05-04, 14:22
PEs were never the Jack of All Trades. They don't have enough skillpoints for that. PEs can, however, pick any weapon profession apart from PSI and excel in it
Exactly, they simply have more choice of specialisation routes.
I have a HC PE, when finished it will have 81 STR capable of driving and gunning a rhino, Reveler or whatever I damn well want. Along with being able to repair, run like a guy on speed, and if I don't want to use a vehicle I can just use a speed gat...darn.
Also I have a Barter PC PE, when finished I should have a good about of barter and still fight hella good with a Lib and some good defences.
Nothing wrong with RC PE's or MC PE's either. :D
exactly, they will be as good as they were before, but somepeople refuse to accept this
True, but that in itself is a problem. The gap between PE's and the other three classes is slowly widening* so being as good as we were six months ago just isn't good enough :)
*unless you're a Hybrid Monk, of course - in which case, why haven't you rolled over and died like KK wants? :D
True, but that in itself is a problem. The gap between PE's and the other three classes is slowly widening* so being as good as we were six months ago just isn't good enough :)
*unless you're a Hybrid Monk, of course - in which case, why haven't you rolled over and died like KK wants? :Dwell i didnt mean 6 months ago, i ment as good as a PE without stealth when stealth was about.
i knew a few good PEs with out stealth when stealth was around, zoneseek was one off top of head, and Vets PE was good without stealth(though he did go stealth last time i saw him)
The Spy can Sleath, Cloak now, Hack, and use all the Rifles like an expert. What is left for the PE, but Pistle and Hack is he not the Jack of all trades, able to use most of this stuff, but now what can he do?
You forgot to mention rifles for PE's
fewl!
Mumblyfish
28-05-04, 15:37
You forgot to mention rifles for PE's
fewl!
He also forgot melee and heavy combat. And when flying vehicles come around PEs will be the class of choice for them.
Dribble Joy
28-05-04, 15:39
And when flying vehicles come around PEs will be the class of choice for them.
Not really. The int requirements are far above PE lvls.
well i didnt mean 6 months ago, i ment as good as a PE without stealth when stealth was about.
Hehe, so did I - I just couldn't remember how long ago stealth was introduced, hence my "six months" guess. I know there were great PE's before stealth and really, that hasn't changed, but unless I'm forgetting something, the list of things a PE *can* do hasn't changed in a long time, where as the other classes are getting increasingly better.
And when flying vehicles come around PEs will be the class of choice for them.
Yup, DJ is right. I tried speccing my (already quite nerfed PE) for the Gliders on the basis that the requirements wont change too much and it's just not worth it. The best INT you can get on a PE without drugs is in the region of 90-ish.. and I really think flying on drugs is a baaaaaad idea ;)
Wow. Just remove stealth, and PEs suddenly are worthless?
I wonder why so many people played PEs to begin with knowing that they were perpetually relying on the crutch of stealth???
PEs are still good, and yah what was said is true, we arent a Jack of all trades, we just have more choices for specialization. Ironically through all the PEs whining about losing stealth, Ive actually LoMed TO high tech and started playing my PE again. I'm even starting to use the Judge again, my favorite weapon. Man its just like old times. All my Judges are modded stupidly though since I had em built when I knew very little about the game. :p
And btw, I don't care how bad they nerf PEs, we will still be the hottest and sexiest bitches this side of the world. ;)
we will still be the hottest and sexiest bitches this side of the world.
This is true - But when Tanks have artillery cannons and proper powered armour, spies are stomping through the wastelands in sleek and shiny mechs and monks are busy altering reality with their god-like powers, don't you think we'll be lying to ourselves when we console ourselves by looking in the mirror and saying "Hey, at least I still look hot"
don't you think we'll be lying to ourselves when we console ourselves by looking in the mirror and saying "Hey, at least I still look hot" Yes. And I can live with that. :p
The Spy can Sleath, Cloak now, Hack, and use all the Rifles like an expert. What is left for the PE, but Pistle and Hack is he not the Jack of all trades, able to use most of this stuff, but now what can he do?
You can Go Low tech rifles or pistols
You can Go High tech rifles or pistols.
You can make yourself a HC,Driver Hacker PE
The ability to Go Rifles Pistols even HC, SHelter lvl 1 boost and heal yourself well, Ability to get op hack lvl and still be formable in combat. That seems like jack off all trade there I mean a PE can do anything well except maybe drone. Wait No stealth I guess with out that he aint a jack of all trade.
I think for alot of PEs what it comes down to is this.
In a fight 1 on 1 joe average PE player who is not exceptionally gifted as a PE and doesnt have the absolute best possible setup will die to APUs, Tanks and Spies.
When you bring them to an OP war it becomes more noticeable because if you replace the PEs own buffs with PPU buffs the diffrence is minor when you compare it to the increase a Tank, Spy or APU gets from PPU buffs.
Now if you spend all your points wisely and get really good with one or two guns then in 1 on 1 you can hold your own and win.
But when you bring your well setup PE to an OP war you will never be as usefull as the other classes.
Stealth made PEs useful in OP wars but overpowered them in 1 on 1. What PEs need now is a means of being usefully in OP wars to replace the loss of stealth, what that might be I cant think of.
Stealth made PEs useful in OP wars but overpowered them in 1 on 1. What PEs need now is a means of being usefully in OP wars to replace the loss of stealth, what that might be I cant think of.
I dont see how stealth were useful? They were nothig more than an annoyance I never saw stealthers doing much of anything at op wars.
Plus I still think Pain Easier PE is good in op wars especial when you take into account how little people wait for deflecter in op fights its mostly grab shelter and go.
In a fight 1 on 1 joe average PE player who is not exceptionally gifted as a PE and doesnt have the absolute best possible setup will die to APUs, Tanks and Spies.I dunno, shelter and blessed deflector and the better armor can make a big difference between two average joes (in terms of PE vs Spy).
I dont know if PE''s need their Stealth to survive or not, I've met quite a few PE's where their stealth was the only thing that saved them...
I don't play PE's anyway, I'm still crying about my hybrid monk that got nerfed a few patches back..128/68 before the nerfs :(
Menolak
Menolak 64/55 APU -Venus
Vampslord 48/62 HC Tank-Venus
Wakeup 94/72 APU -Venus
Quebec Mercenary 42/52 HC Tank -Saturn
Kahless **/** Pistol Spy -Saturn
Gorkon **/** Rifle Spy -Saturn
I dont see how stealth were useful? They were nothig more than an annoyance I never saw stealthers doing much of anything at op wars.
I used stealth to pick off people who strayed from the main enemy force, especially people who fell back to heal. I would then stealth away to look for another target or find a safe place to heal.
Only crap PEs who stealth constantly were annoying, the problem was there were alot of them and I think thats one of the main reasons PEs lost stealth, not because of balance issues but because of how some people played PEs.
QuantumDelta
28-05-04, 18:45
PEs are piss easy to cap and by far the best class on their own. Theyre just not that good in opfights anymore.
But still can go r-c, p-c, m-c, h-c, even tradeskills or drones.
Sorry Kid, but the other classes cap times are roughly the same as the PE -- Excluding second stat, which is all of 6-24 hours longer.
not really valid....and, besides I don't think "time to get there" is really valid at all anyway....because it was the "uber hybrids" who took the longest to level to start with.
If you think your PE is suddenly shit or can no longer win cos of stealth removal then your PE is shite. The real PE players will adapt or like my self be uneffected and continue as normal and I never used the stealth tool and even with the overpowered melee I will adapt. I will find a way through lomming to take those MOFO's down once again nerf the PE as much as you want we will always find a way to get around it.
Right on Lil T.
I hate these PE are JOAT threads. They never go anywhere.
Give PE explosives :)
and btw useing stealth as PE sux.
Stealth should be only for a SPY as it is now.
One thing i would like to see is some special ability only for PEs.
Tanks can Tank :wtf: , Spy can Hide, Monk... we all know what monk can do, And PE can be a bit of everything, thats nice, but i would love to see something special, only for PE. Traps or explosives... woohooooo...
Psychoninja
28-05-04, 21:02
I've been thinking of rerolling my PE into a pistol SPY, I already got all the imps spells, and lowbie weapons left over. Having an SA just convinces me more. This isn't primarily because stealth was taken away, only used stealth for scouting wastelands, or running away from 8 people(no joke), it's because specializing classes will simply be rewarded with better toys than a JOAT class. Holovests, stealth, gliders, combat VHCs, mechs, etc...
Hell I wouldn't doubt if hacknet required a certain amount of hack that would gimp PEs...
Spec>JoAT
I think its not the fact that alot of people relied upon stealth, but its more that now if you really know what you are doing with setups then a pistol spy is better than a pistol PE. Its not that people are complaining "Onoz, we're shit without stealth" its more than the removal of stealth was the point at which PEs started really realising... "Hey wait, what is the point"?
I don't care, I'm still playing Drikie almost 100%, and am leveling up another PE on Saturn and another on Uranus. I'll be playing PEs until the day I quit.
Only thing I can think of to give the PE class is a radar someone posted this awhile back and it would be perfect for the pe. He would be able to track stealthing spys maybe or his victims PE is the favorite class to pk with :p
I am an expert on PE's currently I dont see much reason to be one. Not about stealth, I never liked it and was low tech the vast majority of my time in NC. but why be a PE? lets compair. A spy can have like 400 hp, 100 energy/fire xray (more xray of course) and a little por if you sacraifice a little health,ath, or other resits. He can us the slasher and executioner, both of which do insane damage. He can cast heal at 52/min. has a 10 minute + 5 psi drug for shelter. So, you can have a little less hp, little less resists (not a lot less) same run speed, MUCH more offence, a good trade skill, shelter, and stealth if your overwhelmed... explain why you would want to use your PE over that?
True pes were awesome before stealth, but things have changed... CS is about 15-20% more powerful. spies are MUCH stronger then when stealth was interoduced. so while pes are about the same, other classes got a lot stronger.
I think pes need some kind of unique "toy" or some kind of ability... maybe a psi glove that lowers the reqs required for psi spells by 5, so they could use tl 40 spells undrugged..or ability to see stealthers, or something like that.
As things stand, spies have some weaknesses a pe doesnt, but they have more strenghts... have you SEEN a slasher/exe spy in action!? (both need a nerf btw) why be a PE?
some people are just dumb here with their "get some skills" comment, thats not a way to balance skills, when hybrids were god they told everyone else to get some skills.
the question is why do you want to play a PE anymore? novelty value? or is it because you have to drugg and rebuff every now and then to make yourself equal to other classes. Without stealth why play a PE at all? It was our only advantage agaisnt tanks. Sure we are equal with tanks 1 v 1, but tanks own in teams and can use AoE. On the other hand rifle PEs are underpowered, rifles do low damage, and limiting us from accessing any higher rifles makes us useless.
And no PEs can't use fyling vehicles, and don't give me the crap when doy comes in 4 MONTHs it will all be fixed. Sure PEs will be balanced when there are 10 players on saturn.
Again give me one reason why you'd play PE? to op fights, duels, boycotting apart from novelty value. Its expensive enough to run on drugs to wield a rifle, from the look of things why not go spy? They are the true JOAT.
why not go spy? They are the true JOAT.
Think before you talk. You think spys are better than PEs at combat and tradeskills? ok. But PEs can do both of those AND use heavy weapons AND have 35 psi. They are still the JOATs.
I'm a PE and I've played every other class. There are so many crappy PEs that think we suck. I'm lowtech pistols. I'm good enough in OP wars and small fights. I can also hack 120... a pretty big extra skill. I dont care if I get any extra stuff. PEs have always been like they are now. Just because they cant run away from fight all these noobs think the class sucks now. They're the same as before!!! It's just you cant run away :wtf:
Its extremely useful in op fights to be able stealth. Well bitch I happen to have an similiar HC PE as well, and she in fact is suddenly my best Pe cause she can't stealth anyway. All I am saying is that agaisnt a tank with equal skill 1v1 or in a team i'm no match. And YOU think before you say something a spy can hack at that level, and still be able to wield and cap a disruptor. We are talking about 60 to 100 int levels, you get 40 more int levels to do wahtever the fuck you want after weaponlore
Edit * you can get shelter easily now with a 10 min psi drug, on top of that you also happen to have 20 more dex levels, so you can even do more. You don't need to constantly drug to use the high tl guns, so yeah I can be a JOAT spy with little draw back, drive a bit, hack a bit, snipe a bit, and also stealth a bit. you on the other hand can hack a bit and can't even cap your TSG. I don't call that JOAT.
True, but that in itself is a problem. The gap between PE's and the other three classes is slowly widening* so being as good as we were six months ago just isn't good enough :)
They are better then they were 6 months ago or whenever stealth was introduced because of the addition of PA and to a lesser extent the SA PEs can use higher and higher end weapons without compromising resists to any great degree, these days you have to deal with RoLH and executioner PEs but back then you only really had to deal with Libby PEs and the odd judge user, so they have improved.
He can us the slasher and executioner, both of which do insane damage.
So can a PE, he may not get quite as good stats but hes works out better then a spy in 1 on 1 and as good or better if the spy has ppu buffs
have you SEEN a slasher/exe spy in action!? (both need a nerf btw)
have you SEEN a slasher/exe PE in actions!? (both need a nerf btw) more then the spy equivalant anyway, they can do almost as much damage and can soak up so much more then a spy can.
I dunno what it is with people who play PEs but most of them love to hate their favourite class and generally like to bitch when theres nothing amazingly wrong with their class.
PEs were good without stealth were overpowered with stealth and are fine now that they dont have stealth again.
And I think its great that now that PEs dont have stealth they are already starting to ask for anti-stealth eyes and general stealth nerfs now taht they dont have it.
have you SEEN a slasher/exe PE in actions!? (both need a nerf btw) more then the spy equivalant anyway, they can do almost as much damage and can soak up so much more then a spy can.
Yes but have you seen the amount of agilitly a PE has to lose and the fact that he need to wear PA 4 and lose yet more psi lvls and metal steadyness. The PE also would need an SA which is very hard to get and the spy will still get a much greater rate of fire which is what really determines who will win the fight. If a PE is gonna use the slasher/exe then he will be gimped he might be able to kill other PE's and some tanks but an APU would destroy him as would a pistol spy. No point in playing a PE any longer if you ask me pistol spy seems to be the better choice ROF on slasher caps at 370 like the libby I was told and the slasher hardly ever misses. No one is gonna be able to take that amount of damage for more than 10 seconds the slasher really is a weapon that gets the job done very quicky :lol:
ResurgencE
29-05-04, 14:25
I'd like you all to take a look at this thread, which is very recent.
Read it through before posting suggestions. Its quite apparent that the PE has lost his charm.
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=99364
[/Edit] As explained later on in the thread, a PE trying to specialise in HC is not a JoaT. He is just a PE trying to specialise, and failing at it.
Yes but have you seen the amount of agilitly a PE has to lose and the fact that he need to wear PA 4 and lose yet more psi lvls and metal steadyness. The PE also would need an SA which is very hard to get and the spy will still get a much greater rate of fire which is what really determines who will win the fight. If a PE is gonna use the slasher/exe then he will be gimped he might be able to kill other PE's and some tanks but an APU would destroy him as would a pistol spy. No point in playing a PE any longer if you ask me pistol spy seems to be the better choice ROF on slasher caps at 370 like the libby I was told and the slasher hardly ever misses. No one is gonna be able to take that amount of damage for more than 10 seconds the slasher really is a weapon that gets the job done very quicky :lol:
pistols are way overpowered for the speed they get, this has nothing to do with PE or Spies. Both of these guns are way over the top. Granted PEs are better pistol users still believe it or not. Though the drug changes probably screwed alot of setups up. I feel annoyed that my PE was built around those drugs and setup exatcly and now I have to lom again because they decided to change stuff around. Luckily I don't play anymore.
It be nice if someone told me the weapon changes after the patch. I know the healing light was nerfed, but what about the other guns?
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