The lack of AoE weapon's, and a possible solution [idea, weapon addtions]

[Q`alooaith]

Ok, here's the reason for this idea, rifle user's have no Area of effect(AoE) weaponry and pistol user's AoE weapon is not all that good either..

To be fair tank's don't have great AoE weapon either so I thought what the hell and so this is an idea for AoE Pistol's, Rifles and cannons... with that in mind on with the ideas..



Cannons..

yes I know there are lot's of AoE cannon's, but they are all ground target ones, I suggest a small change, make the flamer "burst" when it hit's a target, So it'd fire tha same was as it does now, but when it hit's somthing it creates a area of damage around the target, not a huge area but big enough to hit people standing next to the target..

Pros; A targeted AoE weapon, not a massive change to the game, no new grafics needed..

Cons; Could cause flamer's to become even more powerful, due to range of flamer's the user might en up inside the AoE range (this could also be considered a pro)


Rifles...

There's no rifle I'd change to AoE, and a rocket rifle's have been suggested before.. they just don't make sence.. so.

Introducing the Arc rifle...
The arc rifle would need a target, and once it hit's extra shot's jump from the primary target to anyone within a short distance..

It'd do more damage the shorter the range to the target, and 50% damage to anyone it arc's to..

Same grafix's as raygun rifles, and same sound's..
Simple explination for the description window..


During the devlopment of the neutron rifles the dome scientists stumbled on a techinique to send an extra charge down the beam, making the shot arc from the target to nearby object's, though the process of charging the beam overload's normal neutron rifles devlopment was undertaken and the new generation of Arc rifles are shielded so they don't burn out after one use, though constant matenence is needed

Just and idea..




Now onto pistols...
[iip]

There's no pistol I'd change to do AoE, and none I'd base an idea off so, onto a new idea..

Introducing the Micromave pistol..

The Microwave pistol does exactly what it say's on the box, as in it fires a stream of radiation out in a wide area in front of the weapon, this radiation dissipates rapidly but causes the area to heat up..

The effect of this pistol would be like a mini fire barrel in front of the pistol user when it's fired, lasting a few second's and doing a moderate ammount of damage..

Now the upside's of the weapon are easy to see, it's able to place a AoE in front of the pistoler, the downside is that the pistoler can't run forward while using this weapon (they'd run into their own attack and suffer damge)


So that's the basic's of the idea's.. like em, lothe em?

[Drake6k]

I really hate your ideas.

Tanks and monks are AoE classes. PEs and Spys shouldnt have access. Rocket launchers pistols are a fun perk to pistolers. Kinda like how rifles have sniper rifles. Keep aoe to the heavy weapons.

[awkward silence]

I dont think that pistols should have the most powerfull aoe but they should have a good one. PE only. A rof a bit slower than the mal.

A spy using stealth 3 aoe and repeat will be overpowered but ......i guess thats it. Good idea

Guessing there'l be lots of flaming but honestly i dont give a shit.

[Q`alooaith]

I really hate your ideas.


ahhh how sweet, lub yuuu too...



These idea's are not for long range AoE which tank's do very well, the Rifle being like a raygun in the damage drop off would be inifective at longer ranges, the pistol is even worse for range..


I mean what's wrong with a pistol able to place a short duration damage effect 2 feet in front of it.. not a large area even...

What about the Flamer, you hate my idea's so you must hate that too.. It's a tank weapon, it's currently not AoE, but I'd like to see it do a limited AoE but you hate it..


constructive comment's are welcome, thing's like "I hate this idea" are not welcome..

[naimex]

just up the mini rocket launchers dmg

and make redeemer and that series do a small aoe


if you think there should be aoe for every class, then those 2 are the ones I would change

[Q`alooaith]

Naimex, the idea was not to change thouse two..


The mini rocket's are nice as they are, and the rifles well, didn't want to change any of them realy, since none of them realy feel's like it should be AoE..


This is why I say new weapons, it also mean's the damage's can be ballenced better and other interesting way's to do thing's done..

Would you be happy if suddenly your CS did half it's current damage in exchange for a chance for the attack to cause splash damage when it hits a target?

[naimex]

cs already does splash dmg..

it does 10 dmg in splash dmg...

[ezza]

personally id rather they done somthing with the tank AoE as it sucks and is rarely used, my moony only comes out for certain op fights(though you tent to lose SL when you do :lol: )

my mal, umm not really used it much, and my doomy i only used for leveling, and that was only for a laugh.

not really sure riflers should have AOE, and beyond what pistoleros have i dont see they should get AoE.

not trying to sound biast against the other classes, but really tanks are the ones who should have the kick ass AoE weapons.

and no change to CS thanks

[Q`alooaith]

Naimex, that's not the point!


The point is would YOU be happy if your favorite weapon suddenly changed and did far less damage than before?

What about if the weapon fire type changed so instead of it needing a target it it it just needed pointing in a direction like rocket's?



You'd probably not be very happy, and that is the point.. Rather than change current weapon's I suggest making two new one's and altering one old one so it feel's more like a flamer...

[s0apy]

speaking as a rifle PE, i generally feel that rifles and pistols should have no AoE version. simply put, AoE is a way of taking a large damage source and spreading it out over an area to effect several targets. the damage source must be hard to aim, but must carry a significant damage payload to balance this.

the problem for PE rifles and pistols is that they, by definition, do NOT do a large amount of damage. if you were to take the damage output of a TL 95-100 rifle or pistol weapon, increase it to balance out the loss of aim, and spread it out over a wide area, it would still come to out to a negligable amount for each target hit. not insignificant, but certainly negligable compared to a tank or monk AoE.

i'm not suggesting that's fair, but PE rifles and pistols are not really designed for anything other than up close one on one duelling these days. i wouldn't take a PE into any tunnel or cave, even with the best AoE rifle in the world - and the tanks and monks wouldn't want me there either. and certainly KK don't want me there.

[naimex]

of course I wouldn´t, no one wants their weapons changed, but then again..

I haven´t seen a PE with a mini rocket launcher (except 3 or 4 times against cyclopses)

and I haven´t seen a redeemer used since beginning of retail..


and if you notice, then I said, that those 2 weapon series would be the ones I would change if they had to have AoE weapons.

[Q`alooaith]

I have the sudden urge to beat serveral poster's over the head with their own limbs..



My idea's are about All weapon's of a type, so when I say a pistol I mean a set of pistol's, and when I say rifle I meana set of rifles, and when I say a change to flamer's I'm talking about every flamer, not just the rare one..

I have not suggested any change to the CS.





You might not want an AoE weapon, it does not discount other's might..

Damage spread over many foes is alway's good, esp if the rest of your hunting team is using AoE too..

I'd happly take my pistoler anywhere..

[ezza]

so basically you want us all to agree with you? O_o

[Benjie]

I only think there needs to be a Rare Rocket Pistol, and the Doom Beamer needs a slight boost somehow.

What do people think of my suggestion to AOE?

[awkward silence]

Make the redeemer AOE and boost the rocket launcher pistol.
If anyone has a problem with that...well i think cannon shouldnt be able to fire right infront of them. Meaning no CS for tanks! Funny huh?
I feel the same way about the argument that only tanks and monks should have AOE. Plain stupid

[ezza]

Make the redeemer AOE and boost the rocket launcher pistol.
If anyone has a problem with that...well i think cannon shouldnt be able to fire right infront of them. Meaning no CS for tanks! Funny huh?
I feel the same way about the argument that only tanks and monks should have AOE. Plain stupid
what feel like your missing out cos you cant shoot yourself in the foot?

not every class can do what others can do.

tanks aint asking for anti buff, why you guys want to do everythink that others can

[s0apy]

Damage spread over many foes is alway's good, esp if the rest of your hunting team is using AoE too..

I'd happly take my pistoler anywhere..

you can take your pistol or rifle anywhere, but are they effective? i'm talking mobs here. PEs are just plain useless for high level mobbing, compared to APUs and tanks. look at it this way - to do the DoY tunnels you need a team, and you need one if not 2 PPUs and 2 or 3 damage dealers. damage means tanks and APUs, just that simple. a PE with a PPU on his ass is pretty much still just a PE for mob purposes, whereas a tank or APU is a god.

again, this isn't really fair, but KK don't give a shit about PEs (or spys for that matter) when it comes to high level content. all they can think of is to give you an assload of mobs that hit insanely hard, for which you HAVE to have PPU support to even consider going in, for which the only possible complimentary damage dealer (that makes sense) is a tank or APU.

you can give PEs AoE, but it will still be useless to them. but that is only my opinion, and i consider it quite unfair.

[Benjie]

what feel like your missing out cos you cant shoot yourself in the foot?

not every class can do what others can do.

tanks aint asking for anti buff, why you guys want to do everythink that others can
Ezza is correct, awkward silence. Even if he is such a Lom Addict addict that he can't even remember how to spell Lom Addict. :p

[awkward silence]

Pe's would need that from of con lvling. =)

Think of all the ppl you know that use a redeemer.
I MIGHT know one rifler that uses it.
Rocket pistol...ok only 3 more ppl that are capped use it and they all say it sucks.

If AOE is not wanted REMOVE the rocket pistol but since it is it might aswell be usefull so boost it please.

Oh and nef ezza i dont like him =)

Damn you benjie damn you!

oh and call me awk no need to be formal

[Benjie]

Oh and nef ezza i dont like him =)
Ezzas cool, even if he does play on Saturn.

[Q`alooaith]

S0apy..


PE's are the joat, they are not meant to be the best at any one thing..

Now a slasher spy, there's somthing to be feared..

Also drones are often taken into the caves, I know I've seen them..


A high level Spy + PPU can do wonder's..



I just find somthing very wrong with your statment, which break's down into this..


"pistol's and rifles are crap for hunting, so they should not have any AoE weapon's because they'd be crap for hunting because they are crap for hunting..."


you might not have realised you'd said it, but you did..



And Benjie, what's wrong with saturn?! :cool:

[JediMasta]

Seen as i just started a new melee tank on saturn:

What about us melee tanks !!!!???? If everyone does AOE then itll be impossible for us to lvl as a team, as seen as we have to get close to mobs, we'll just get caught up in everyone's aoe.

And how about adding a AOE effect to melee weps, where it hits targets within a 90 degree radius in front of the user ? :)

[rob444]

I like the cannon and rifle idea.

Cannon: It should have been implented in the first place, much more realistic.
Rifle: I would luuuuuv the chainreaction :D



Seen as i just started a new melee tank on saturn:
What about us melee tanks !!!!????

Eledhbrant mentioned something about an AOE melee weapon once on TS a long time ago. A hammer which hits the ground and hurts everyone nearby, what about that? :D

[s0apy]

S0apy..
PE's are the joat, they are not meant to be the best at any one thing..


argg - i'm sorry, but i cringe when folks say JOAT. if you must, i prefer the term - "all rounder". their relative strengths add up to something greater than the sum of their parts - in the right hands that is.



Now a slasher spy, there's somthing to be feared..
Also drones are often taken into the caves, I know I've seen them..
A high level Spy + PPU can do wonder's..


indeed yes, but the discussion, having been about AoE, made me think of the most common use for this, which is killing high-level mobs in caves. for which you need teams of PPUs and high damage dealers. true, a spy can deal damage comparible to that of a tank, but a tank is MUCH easier to keep alive than a spy. if you must send in someone with a puny body, you send a monk, whose damage far outstrips that of a spy.

clearing these tunnels is all about getting to the end, where the loot is, as fast as possible. the PPU is in complete charge of this, since no one can survive without him, and unless he has a compelling reason to do so, he won't want to waste time on anyone other than a tank or a monk.



I just find somthing very wrong with your statment, which break's down into this..

"pistol's and rifles are crap for hunting, so they should not have any AoE weapon's because they'd be crap for hunting because they are crap for hunting..."

you might not have realised you'd said it, but you did..


i did indeed, basically, mean it. although you should qualify "hunting" with "hunting in caves" which, as i said, is what AoE is generally used for. hunting solo, and we are great, but in the context of AoE, caves and PPU, we really don't count for much.

i agree that it's very wrong, but wrong in the sense of being unfair.

try the DoY tunnels if you want a taste of how unnecessary a PE is in that situation. on your own, you don't stand a change, of course. in an average team or tanks and monks, provided you can keep out of trouble cos no PPU will bother buffing or healing you, you'll contribute about 2 percent of the overall damage being meeted out in there. if the PPU does try and help you, you'll slow down the team by about 20 percent.

[msdong]

why is everyone takin about area DAMAGE ??? ant you ppl think of anything els but advantage through faster kill?

ok now my ideas.
Fusion Rifles:
SunFLARE Mod:a huge light effect on impact.

AssRifles:
a GL-Mod with Flare (light) and Smoke (yea FPS killer) Tear gas (drug flash) ammo shot with the num pad '5'

i dont think pistols should get other things them the rocket pistol

[ezza]

why is everyone takin about area DAMAGE ??? ant you ppl think of anything els but advantage through faster kill?

nope :D

[Dribble Joy]

It has been stated that rifles will never get AoE, as a distinct downside to that weapon system.
Pistols have limited AoE but the only classes/weapon system to have it will be heavy and apu.


a PE with a PPU on his ass is pretty much still just a PE for mob purposes, whereas a tank or APU is a god.
*cough*SC:S*cough*

that's not a did at you s0ap

[winnoc]

Those ideas are some of the worst things i've ever seen on this forum.

While you're at it, why don't you come up with a microwave lasersword that does AOE. It'll be awesome to level your con :-)

[yavimaya]

I like the microwave idea, but maybe they should take the Flamer base, give it a hmm "heat wave" sort of graphic, and make its base dmg radiation.
with a range of like 10-20 metres?