View Full Version : nerf the nerf
sir retail
27-05-04, 11:19
from reading all the posts for some time i get a bit sick of all the nerf requiests..
why do we have to nerf everything. maybe its better to upgrade the lower stuff. lets take it from the positife side.
by all the nerfing its already unpossible to use 4th level suits and cloacks.
and the idea of the stealth loss of the PE still gives me a terrible headegg.
It makes the PE a low level tank with higher psi use.
do i see things wrong or not. Im interested in youre responce.
Retail (and his alts)
yea! fuck the nerfing! we need balance and tat doesnt always come from nerfing, dont forget, nerf one thing and everything else seems stronger :P
Hmm but then, if players got a boost in almost any areas that have to do with fighting, you would have to up the monsters again... and they are already almost impossible to solo for alot of people... well the highest lvl mobs.
AI needs to be redone, they need to be smarter, some need to heal themselves and others, etc. they also need a small speed increase ( some need a large increase).... with all this done, take down thier HP a little. :P
Aziraphale
27-05-04, 11:22
and the idea of the stealth loss of the PE still gives me a terrible headegg.
It makes the PE a low level tank with higher psi use.
A low level tank that can cast shelter, cap rare pistols, poke itself and hack.
Shadow Dancer
27-05-04, 11:24
Um, my opinion? Some things in the past NEEDED nerfing. You can't take a "boost only" or "nerf only" attitude. You need to do both to achieve proper balance. For example, the super uber overpowered hybrids of back in the days. They were way above other classes, so was KK supposed to boost all the other 3 classes to the same insane power level? Pfftttt. C'mon now.
I don't think pes should have lost stealth. I don't think the stealth "problem" is fixed. It's just shifting the attention from pes to spies now. The problem is stealthers having an easy way to escape everytime their low on health from a battle, then quickly healing and coming back repeatedly. THAT is what should have been fixed IMO.
Btw, I don't remember any kind of nerfing that lead the classes to be unable to wear PA4. I think that's just original design decision.
SPIKE (pluto)
27-05-04, 11:27
from reading all the posts for some time i get a bit sick of all the nerf requiests..
why do we have to nerf everything. maybe its better to upgrade the lower stuff. lets take it from the positive side.
Constantly overpowering things will lead us into bigger trouble than nerfing them, eventualy u will get nailguns doing 100 dmg to players and tanks running round with 10000 health, it'll be like planet side, one shot and ppl in the toughest armour fall dead
and the idea of the stealth loss of the PE still gives me a terrible headegg.
Pe's have to right to stealth, only spies do, and that comes from a monk. If anyone thinks this is bad some apu's have found a way of using stealth on pluto apparently :wtf:
To make the game realistic, there should be no balance... Life isn't fair for everyone, live with it :o
sir retail
27-05-04, 11:35
Constantly overpowering things will lead us into bigger trouble than nerfing them, eventualy u will get nailguns doing 100 dmg to players and tanks running round with 10000 health, it'll be like planet side, one shot and ppl in the toughest armour fall dead
we dont have to buff everything...
i only think some stuff should be buffed instead of nerfd untill we have a nice balance to play this game.
and than leave it like it is..
becouse if its in balance it is in balance.
awkward silence
27-05-04, 11:54
NERF NERF NERF the guns, stealth, op defences, armor, vechicles, imps, tradeskillas and EVERYTHING !!!!!!!!!
There are too many "nerf!!!" demands atm and frankly it's starting to get on my tits.
As SD says sometimes it's needed but IMO not very often. There have only ever been two or three things since NC went retail where I felt nerfing was the best or only solution.
btw - your examples aren't too hot ;).
/edit - IMO tweaking and balancing is not nerfing. Dropping a % or two off a weapon's damage may or not be a nerf depending on the context.
Aziraphale
27-05-04, 12:09
Pe's have to right to stealth, only spies do, and that comes from a monk. If anyone thinks this is bad some apu's have found a way of using stealth on pluto apparently :wtf:
I don't think so, highest I can get dex with skill manager is 73 on a monk, and thats using imps they cant reach in the first place (SF, SA etc).
Intersting concept though :D
Dribble Joy
27-05-04, 12:17
tweaking and balancing is not nerfing. Dropping a % or two off a weapon's damage may or not be a nerf depending on the context.
Exactly, there is a disticnt difference between tweaking/balancing and a nerf.
Hybrids were 'nerfed', the libby (when it was insane) was 'nerfed' and with due cause.
Most of the classes have been continuously boosted over the course of NC.
PE's have gained imps, PA and mc5 that without they were effectively useless even in 1vs1.
Tanks have had their PA boosted (PA3 now has +56 energy, FIFTY SIX, more than double the PEPA3 energy), they have new weapons, most of which have been boosted, CS is now insane, the Ravager is even better.
Yet we are still so far from balance that is very possible and would not need a complete rewrite of the game.
So people like me and SD and QD and others will continue to ask for changes (or 'nerfs' as they obviously are) untill we get balance.
from reading all the posts for some time i get a bit sick of all the nerf requiests..
why do we have to nerf everything. maybe its better to upgrade the lower stuff. lets take it from the positife side.
by all the nerfing its already unpossible to use 4th level suits and cloacks.
and the idea of the stealth loss of the PE still gives me a terrible headegg.
It makes the PE a low level tank with higher psi use.
do i see things wrong or not. Im interested in youre responce.
Retail (and his alts)
Um.....
No, it doesn't, it gives spys a tool FOR THEM, and it removes the lameness form PE's that think theyre spys, it wont underpower Pe's they can still use EVERY rare pistol, cant they? and every rare rifle should they want to.
it should be boosted never nerfed as nerf leads to frustration.
if one char is overpowered boost other chars to compensate then boost mobs to compensate the char changes not nerf
the libby (when it was insane) was 'nerfed' and with due cause.
Actually the piercing bug was fixed.;)
games will never be balanced,
people will never be satisfied.
it should be boosted never nerfed as nerf leads to frustration.
if one char is overpowered boost other chars to compensate then boost mobs to compensate the char changes not nerf
So what would you have done with the old hybrids then? Given every other class holy shelter, deflector and heal?
People only shout Nerf when they get killed by something.
:rolleyes:
Aziraphale
27-05-04, 13:36
People only shout Nerf when they get killed by something.
:rolleyes:
Yes, it's hard to know if something overpowered unless you get ********** by it, how else would you know? O_o
most of the neocron community seems to want a gun that kills everyone else in one shot and either only they can use, or does no damage to them.
really. it's always "such and such weapon is overpowered and that's why I was killed" not "that player has a better setup and/or more skill than me"
it's the same kind of bullshit whining that counter-strike is full of, or really, any first person shooter. no matter what gun you use, you're a [insert gun name here]-whore. back in my CS days sometimes I'd just flat out ask "which gun do you want me to use?" because I'd cycled through every weapon in the game including the knife and every time I was a whore for using it.
games will never be balanced,
people will never be satisfied.
so true
fuck wat een geweldige sig is dat :D
Nerfing is needed, cause boosting all other would result in an incredible amount of work. If every class was boosted to the level of the exotic hybrid all Mobs would need a boost. If a single pistol/rifle/etc. is overpowerded its's much less work to nerf it than to boost all others, causing an imbalance with other wepons, causing an imbalance Monk/other classes-> do the whole balancing issue again from start. thats what balancing is all about: boosting some things a litte bit and nerfing others.
Yes, it's hard to know if something overpowered unless you get ********** by it, how else would you know? O_o
could be that the person sucks, got killed, looked for the first thing to complain about, then ask for it to be nerfed
HoneyMonster
27-05-04, 16:43
A low level tank that can cast shelter, cap rare pistols, poke itself and hack
A melee tank can hack. And with the introduction of these new drugs poke all tl's appart from mc5 : )
Shadow Dancer
27-05-04, 20:47
btw - your examples aren't too hot ;).
Do you mean the hybrid thing? Please explain to me how that was not a good example. Are you suggesting that hybrids were fine? That others just needed to be boosted? :eek:
back in my CS days sometimes I'd just flat out ask "which gun do you want me to use?" because I'd cycled through every weapon in the game including the knife and every time I was a whore for using it.
LMFAO
Ozambabbaz
27-05-04, 20:53
could be that the person sucks, got killed, looked for the first thing to complain about, then ask for it to be nerfed
whoa...flashbacks...nice morals there :lol:
greendonkeyuk
27-05-04, 21:08
yeah like i got killed by ezza so nerf him.....
back on topic, yeah i agree certain things did need nerfing at some point. the hybrids is the case in point. Other things that have been tweaked maybe didnt need it. what i would like to see is if something DOES get tweaked/nerfed soon then id like to see MJS/CODI/CALLASH or some other NC bigwig to at least maybe give us some feed back as to why they made this decision. It would at least help people to understand it rather than the "thats changed so live with it" attitude that we seem to get right now.
my 2ps worth.
Um, my opinion? Some things in the past NEEDED nerfing. You can't take a "boost only" or "nerf only" attitude. You need to do both to achieve proper balance. For example, the super uber overpowered hybrids of back in the days. They were way above other classes, so was KK supposed to boost all the other 3 classes to the same insane power level? Pfftttt. C'mon now.
I don't think pes should have lost stealth. I don't think the stealth "problem" is fixed. It's just shifting the attention from pes to spies now. The problem is stealthers having an easy way to escape everytime their low on health from a battle, then quickly healing and coming back repeatedly. THAT is what should have been fixed IMO.
Btw, I don't remember any kind of nerfing that lead the classes to be unable to wear PA4. I think that's just original design decision.
you hit the nail on the head.
games will never be balanced,
people will never be satisfied.
I was satisfied and I was under the impression neocron was as balanced as it could get. Now with yet another melee change(read boost), I'm not so certain anymore, on both bits.
yeah I know, imho melee was fine before the patch.
but stealth pes werent
whoa...flashbacks...nice morals there :lol:
you talking about PEs ands stealth in that reference there nib boy?
and if it is, did you ever see me make a thread about it? nope. if noone had of made issues about stealth and PEs i wouldnt of posted anything about it.
they did so i did, just cos your a pile of shite on your PE that you need a stealth tool to keep your sorry ass alive
omg resissts got nerf?
no wounder myy pe got ********** at pp :mad:
Do you mean the hybrid thing? Please explain to me how that was not a good example. Are you suggesting that hybrids were fine? That others just needed to be boosted? :eek:
Directed at the thread-starter , not you.
maybe its better to upgrade the lower stuff.
Wont happen because a long fight is more interesting that a quick death.
See the problem is that they keep trying to BALANCE the classes instead of seperate them. Each class should be stronger in a area than the others. A spy should not be able to handle close range combat, A tank should be naturally stronger and can chew up dmg for lunch, a PE should not be strong in any area but it should be a challenge to battle because of its diversity and a PSI should be strong magically but die extremely quick without and type of Buffs (which is already in game)
Wont happen because a long fight is more interesting that a quick death.
See the problem is that they keep trying to BALANCE the classes instead of seperate them. Each class should be stronger in a area than the others. A spy should not be able to handle close range combat, A tank should be naturally stronger and can chew up dmg for lunch, a PE should not be strong in any area but it should be a challenge to battle because of its diversity and a PSI should be strong magically but die extremely quick without and type of Buffs (which is already in game)personally i prefere quick fights, though admitidly so i can kill more people in a short space of time, the longer the fight goes on the more change of enemies getting back up.
the quicker i put my enemies down the better
If you don't nerf, you're gonna get this:
"5 people in a room tryingto get a point acros...... One starts to talk louder, the second ones starts talking louder than that, etc..... In the end, everyone is killing his voal chords shouting, and the neighbours file complaint for noise"
To put it simply it will fuck up the game within a couple of patches.
If you don't nerf, you're gonna get this:
"5 people in a room tryingto get a point acros...... One starts to talk louder, the second ones starts talking louder than that, etc..... In the end, everyone is killing his voal chords shouting, and the neighbours file complaint for noise"
To put it simply it will fuck up the game within a couple of patches.
No, that's if you boost things too far. Nerfing is reducing them too much and is just as bad. By your analogy - everyone is gagged and blindfolded, no-one can hear or see anyone else, eventually they die of boredom.
personally i prefere quick fights, though admitidly so i can kill more people in a short space of time, the longer the fight goes on the more change of enemies getting back up.
the quicker i put my enemies down the better
Yeah.. NERFNERFNERFNERF AND YET AGAIN NERF!! [/CAPS]
Most ppl start whining when s 1 found a setup that owned them.
If u keep nerfing everything in game, we'll end up fighting a feekin 1 on 1 for hours.. so dont be pussy if u get killed, face the fact that the other was better, and next time u'll try to figure a way to kill him instead of getting ur own sorry ass nailed again.
Personally - i dont like to use more than 5minutes on killing someone.
Nerf = fuck the game.
To make the game realistic, there should be no balance... Life isn't fair for everyone, live with it :o
I agree, you choose your class for it's strengthes and weaknesses, why balance everything...
I used to have a 128/68 APU hybrid that could rez. Overpowered, what do you mean? I'd say that's uber
(Personally, everytime I bitch about things being overpowered, something of my own gets nerfed, so I'm not gonna say anything about melee tanks, kill them from a distance if you're scared)
i can see ure point...but nerfing is easier to do as boosting can sometimes mean boosting many diff things for example M-C tanks...this would mean all the otha classes would need to be boosted
:wtf: BOOST !!!11oneoneleventwelve
I ABSOLUTELY agree with this post!
*****
Everytime someone gets some new toy, everyone else gets jelous and demands it be nerfed...
Half of the players in this game are so shortsighted that all they want is their favorite class to be superpowered and everyone else to be nerfed into unplayability.
Evidence: the sheer number of "Shelter is ruining the game because my PE can't kill a PPU!" or "I can't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside even if I cap aiming on my guns! Tanks need weapon use implants!" and "PEs lost stealth, so it should be taken out of the game!" posts
<note, all of those are basically real posts, changed to make them slightly more sarcastic ;)>
no wonder NC finds it hard to get new players and keep the ones it has, the communiry makes damn sure no new content is ever substantially introduced! There are even people protesting the new DoY tunnels for god's sakes!
I say stop the pointless nerf requests and let the GMs and Devs test everything to a balance that is fair, not tainted by stupid players that simply want to 0wnz everyone with their new <insert class de jour here> this week.
Shadow Dancer
02-06-04, 22:22
no wonder NC finds it hard to get new players and keep the ones it has, the communiry makes damn sure no new content is ever substantially introduced!
Yes i'm sure it has nothing to do with the complete lack of advertising.
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