Players need to take some responsibility [Archive]

Saito Hajime

21-05-04, 08:04

I'm tired of hearing people whine about server pops, boredom, lack of game content. whatever.
True, the game could certainly use more content. No doubt about it. That isnt the sole reason the game has a low population though. One reason is that the game had a rough launch, too many bugs. When there are so many mmorpg/fps out there why play a game that has such frustrating bugs. Its much better, if still a little buggy. First impressions count for alot though.
Another problem I think is that there are not enough things to do that are not directly related to killing another player. I like the PvP, But even that can get kind of old. There need to be more ancillary things characters can do to flesh them out and inspire a little more actual character development as opposed to stat generation.
Still though, The player populace could do much better than we are at helping to create a viable "community". Not so much on these boards, as there are alot of good ideas floating around. More so in the game. As much as I love the concept of a mmorpg in this setting. Very few people play it like one.
For example, As I got bored of the exp treadmill in EQ, I was able to stage a few player funded events. Silly things, diversions, but fun for those who took part. I would hold Scavenger hunts, drunken races across citys, Cross country footraces, Hell I even hosted my own little triva gathering that ran like a gameshow and handed out prizes/cash. These types of things while maybe not as impressive as having more mc5 chips than anyone else are fun to run and rewarding to boot cause it makes the game enjoyable for a few moments for other people. You dont see things like that in neocron. There are super rich players running around hoarding things/wealth... or just killing any player they see. So, if you're bored of doing caves/wb why not do something different, and instead indiscriminately killing, or generally pissin in peoples wheaties cause youre bored, why not do something that will bring some enrichment to the game. Instead of crying that player killers dont get enough reward, why not do something to make the game more rewarding for the community. Thats why this game isnt growing.
My humble opinion of course, flame on if ya want, but I think its pretty true.
Saito Hajime

extract

21-05-04, 08:13

I'm tired of hearing people whine about server pops, boredom, lack of game content. whatever.

True, the game could certainly use more content. No doubt about it. That isnt the sole reason the game has a low population though. One reason is that the game had a rough launch, too many bugs. When there are so many mmorpg/fps out there why play a game that has such frustrating bugs. Its much better, if still a little buggy. First impressions count for alot though.

Another problem I think is that there are not enough things to do that are not directly related to killing another player. I like the PvP, But even that can get kind of old. There need to be more ancillary things characters can do to flesh them out and inspire a little more actual character development as opposed to stat generation.

Still though, The player populace could do much better than we are at helping to create a viable "community". Not so much on these boards, as there are alot of good ideas floating around. More so in the game. As much as I love the concept of a mmorpg in this setting. Very few people play it like one.

For example, As I got bored of the exp treadmill in EQ, I was able to stage a few player funded events. Silly things, diversions, but fun for those who took part. I would hold Scavenger hunts, drunken races across citys, Cross country footraces, Hell I even hosted my own little triva gathering that ran like a gameshow and handed out prizes/cash. These types of things while maybe not as impressive as having more mc5 chips than anyone else are fun to run and rewarding to boot cause it makes the game enjoyable for a few moments for other people. You dont see things like that in neocron. There are super rich players running around hoarding things/wealth... or just killing any player they see.

So, if you're bored of doing caves/wb why not do something different, and instead indiscriminately killing, or generally pissin in peoples wheaties cause youre bored, why not do something that will bring some enrichment to the game. Instead of crying that player killers dont get enough reward, why not do something to make the game more rewarding for the community. Thats why this game isnt growing.
My humble opinion of course, flame on if ya want, but I think its pretty true.
Saito Hajime

now ill read it :p

Saito Hajime

21-05-04, 08:59

Heh, ok so I'm a noob poster, but I think the point is valid.

bounty

21-05-04, 09:14

I'm tired of hearing people whine about server pops, boredom, lack of game content. whatever.

You start off your sentence with this comment, and then continue to be hypocritical of that comment your entire speech. In fact, all you did was whine about a lack of game content in your thread. I don't understand this.

When there are so many mmorpg/fps out there why play a game that has such frustrating bugs.

Which ones are like that WITHOUT a point and click system?...I'm listening.

If you don't like hearing people bitch or whine, why visit the forums? I don't view it as bitching or whining(most of the time). I view it as people voicing their concerns, or ideas about improving this game.

And I agree that they need more content, but be patient, its coming. DOY, gambling, tech level weapon revamp. We got plenty of stuff on our horizon if you're patient.

But besides that, this game is PVP. It is a game also based on greed and survival. I like to kill other runners. I also like "ganking" people occasionally if i feel i'll benefit from it. No offense but, I don't come to Neocron to play trivia, i don't want to listen to some guy in plaza pretending to be Alex Trebeck(sp). If i wanted that I'd download the countless free(and legal) versions of Jepordy, or go connect to one of about a million trivia IRC channels, NOT fire up NC.

Cytaur

21-05-04, 09:17

I think PvP in this game is horribly boring... Like come on, sure its innovating - MMORPG with a combat close to an FPS. It's far from "close to an FPS". All happens is - if you're not a monk, you get the lame reticle lock, then you run around like you forgot to take your daily Ritalin dose and drunk a 2L bottle Cola. Thats the 1 on 1... When it's a huge battle, then its even worse. It's like a herd of rams hitting eachother with their heads, then turn around and hit the other ram, run off, hit the other etc. It gets even worse when someone parashocks you or the FPS drops to 2-5.

Planetside for example, it has great combat system for an MMO game. The problem is that Neocron has the best theme right now (non-fantasy) and the best MMO atmosphere. It doesn't mean that PS>NC, they both have pros and cons. Except that Neocron is simply the best on the long term run compared to the other.

Content ? Sure I'd appreciate more options to do for when I'm capped... Hell, I'd even appreciate the FS/SL system revamp or removal! I just tend to care too much about my sympathies - who knows, maybe I'll want to do some epic in the future and my FS with that faction is -99

People whine about death ? Hell yeah death is retarded. Pokes are god damn near-impossible to find when you need them. As mentioned above - the SL system is retarded. Whoever has it at -33, they drop more precious items in their quickbelt. Monks are the most to complain about it. Since most of their "best" "spells" are "rare". Back in April 2003, monks only had THREE rare psi modules. That was holy para for PPU and Holy Lightning / Fire Apoc for an APU. Everything else was store-bought. KK say there's lots of cash in the game, well why not add a money-sink that fixes many problems. Have only select psi modules be in tech parts, rest to be Yakarma bought or even special runs... Then clean up the rares pool (they already took out ultimas and slot enhancers - good job), reduce the tech parts drop rate rather than adding more crap to the pool! Rare does not equal to having lots of it.

My 2 cents

Saito Hajime

21-05-04, 09:46

Nice job missing the point entirely bounty.

The point is that this is a RPG. But even though the RPG concept here is Great, the community sucks. Not in the forums, but in the game. There is not one.

Sure, DOY will bring new toys to the game, and a few new mechanics, but how long will those be shiny and interesting? Do you really think DOY is the cure for the low server pops? Maybe untill the new players realize that the role playing community here is VERY small. That the vast majority of characters in any given server have no character. Simple collections of stats figured out on a downloaded stat plotter.

For those who dont get what I am saying, Don't feel bad. I dont really expect many players to understand what I mean. Simply because there is so little actual community.

Bounty, its cool that you kill players, its what the game IS about, and even occasional gankings arent that bad, although habitial greifers should be drug out in the street and beaten about the face and genitalia. And I am not saying that you have to come to whereever a "gameshow" might be run, or a scavenger hunt, or a race, or whatever. If you want to play the game like an FPS and you dont roleplay at all, cool whatever. But in no way was what I said hypocritical.

The point you missed is that instead of complaining about how boring the game is or wondering why the server populations are so low, we, as a game community could be doing alot about it.

bounty

21-05-04, 10:56

I still stand by my point that you are being hypocritical of people who are complaining about a lack of content and then you make a thread complaining about a lack of content.

But i would like to apologize for making that point the basis for my post, instead of focusing on the point you brought up.

I understand that you are making a post to improve content and I think posts like yours are refreshing.

But lets face it, there is a lack of content and I don't think the players are paying 10 dollars a month to have to create their own fun. KK is in the entertainment business. It is THEIR responsibility to entertain us, not the other way around. I think its great that people such as yourself add and enrich the world that they built, however, I don't think you can be critical of those that don't share your view or are as creative as yourself to develop these player generated forms of entertainment.

And I don't feel this "actual community" is a problem, in fact i'd argue to say it's one of KK's most valuable assets whether they realize it or not. We have done a lot and a few members in particular have spent countless hours and sleepless days trying to improve on this product of theirs.

And while i agree that expansion packs and new toys aren't ALWAYS gonna assure limitless server growth, I also feel that RP cannot do that alone either. I've played this game for 2 years without any thoughts of RP, i played quake1 and tribes for 3 years a piece with maps that were repetitive and never once got bored. I guess it depends on how you tick. I remember a day when RP was not dominant, but very easy to find and get immersed in on pluto, and yet our server population is close to nothing.

Saito Hajime

21-05-04, 11:54

we may have to agree to damn near agree on this one.

I do not want to be mistaken in what I mean. I do not think that the player base outside of the game is poor. I think its average with several bright points, or people who make real sense. And I DO think that reakktor would do well to listen better to them.

To be specific. The INGAME community, is where this game lacks the most by comparison to other RPGs. The main point of my entire thread can be summed up like so.

I dislike people who do little more in game than kill people who have no chance of fighting back or getting away. I've killed people, and sometimes ganked folks who couldnt get away too. Most recently A fallen angel ran afoul of me (TT) and my buddy while we were hunting in my reveller. We didnt close and destroy immediately, we didnt jump him in middle of fight. But, when he tried to get closer to check us out I took no chances and mowed him down with the 30mm, as it turns out he was 5-6 ranks lower than me. Probably not fair, but If I could see he fallen angel he could probably see one of us as TT. And I dont take chances with the angels. I dont think that action makes me hypocritical because it is different then waiting in the outzone for someone who has no chance of killing you to stroll by loaded with loot from a hunt and kill them. (perhaps some of that will be addressed with DOY, with the fact that anti city factions hopefully will have harder time getting to noob hunting areas in neocron, balance with the fact that city faction noobs have no chance of hunting in FA or TG.)

So, When I get bored of the level treadmill I dont camp some GR waiting for anyone lower lvl than me to genrep in, I dont camp PP1 zone (though I could) I try to come up with something interesting and different to do for awhile, something to take away from the monotany of the hunting the same damn mobs in the place out of the way I like to hunt.

I guess its a matter of what you expect from this game. I see it being potentially the best RPG out there. I've played several RPGs online. Going way back to "the realm" (if you know what i mean youre old too) I also REALLY enjoyed the original Tribes and Tribes2 nearly as much.

Not to be a dick, but Bounty, in those games you mentioned never getting bored of? Not one was an RPG. Neocron was/is sold as an RPG, so yes it disaapoints me when RP'ers like myself are the vast minority. It's also notable that those games you mentioned are none of them pay to play. Those were/are great games. But they are not like neocron in one singular way.

That illustrates the difference in what you and I think this game should be. I would love to see it as an actual RPG. I'd love to see some live Reakktor involvement in what happens in the game. I'd love to see player actions have effects on the plot/environs of the game. But why should reakktor go to the trouble of putting that much detail into this game world when most of the players care little to take on a role in the world. Why put energy into developing a truly dynamic world for such shallow characters who are nothing more than the sum of thier stats, or how much money or rares they have?

Its not wrong to play the game as a pvp shooter, its part of the game. But why should reakktor be motivated to add depth to the game when as you stated you could play the same levels of quake for years and not get bored?(dont take that personal)

oh yea and simply because I am a smartass bastard, Almost all games are point and click, hell I was pretty good at pointing my spinfusor and clicking in tribes heh

oh yea I guess that was a pretty long sum up. heh, I should sleep I get windy when I am tired.

Saito Hajime

ou7blaze

21-05-04, 11:57

To improve this game... we would need more player events or events hosted by GM's just incase wanking PKers dont decide "oh it's fun to ******** a few 20/20 people"...

Events, keyword here. None exist on Uranus or at least a few and I heard that Venus has good events on there.

Saito Hajime

21-05-04, 12:00

Absolutely Blaze, I would only hope that the events equate to more than just killing some mob thats spawned where it shouldnt or the like.

Simply put the world needs more depth, and players have to be a part of that too. Something beyond same old same old stuff.

___T-X____

21-05-04, 12:02

just wait for DoY - its the make or break, i wouldnt expect much to change until then

Saito Hajime

21-05-04, 12:04

Indeed we can hope that DOY will make a significant difference, but I really believe that without actual player effort to add some depth to the game any DOY population gains wont hang around.

Edit

TX I think youre right about not much changing prior to DOY, but due to the belief stated above I think its least I can do to attempt to improve the game for everyone by suggesting that we the players are what can really make this a great RPG, as opposed to an OK FPS simulator. just food for thought

ou7blaze

21-05-04, 12:06

Saito Hajime

21-05-04, 12:11

Heh, right Blaze, exactly.

And thats my point. Reakktor isnt really on the ball with the events. And thats what i mean by players taking up some of the slack. I mean it doesnt have to be the stuff I talked about. If anyone else can come up with a great idea for an event, DO it. Hell I think most of the server pops would kill for something different to do then the same old hunt. Except maybe some of the griefers who only hunt noobs.

bounty

21-05-04, 14:31

Not to be a dick, but Bounty, in those games you mentioned never getting bored of? Not one was an RPG. Neocron was/is sold as an RPG, so yes it disaapoints me when RP'ers like myself are the vast minority. It's also notable that those games you mentioned are none of them pay to play. Those were/are great games. But they are not like neocron in one singular way.

That illustrates the difference in what you and I think this game should be.Saito Hajime

This is exactly what i was trying to get across. The point of me saying I enjoyed quake1, tribes, and neocron for the same reasons, was to say that I personally don't require and prefer not to have RPG elements in my games. I do just fine with the stimulation i get from shooting and hunting people, mobs, etc. Now don't get me wrong, I think the character building is really fun and the depth of the overall genre and storyline definitely does add to my enjoyment of this game. I respect and understand your enjoyment of the game, as I think you understand where my enjoyment of the game comes from. I feel that the very nature of this game is such that it does certainly attract many "types" of gamers.

This "background" most likely does play an interesting role in what we expect from the developers. With a heavier RPG background, you feel it easier to immerse yourself and have the community immerse themselves and entertain one another with RP and events. I don't see it this way. I derive entertainment from pvp balancing, new weapons, new/better mobs, different chips and armors, and what gives me more action.

I guess thats where the difference lies from my view.

Lafiel

21-05-04, 15:01

*sigh*... one word

pluto

.. i always see small player run events like things you listed.... even with the horrid pop counts i still see some..... maybe ur on wrong server?

btw.... remember EQ had thousands and thousands playin at same time

Saito Hajime

21-05-04, 22:33

Bounty, agreed what we expect from game is different.

I think though that the game could be balanced a little more towards the RP aspect without hurting the pvp aspect at all.

Cor

21-05-04, 23:38

"One reason is that the game had a rough launch, too many bugs. When there are so many mmorpg/fps out there why play a game that has such frustrating bugs. Its much better, if still a little buggy. First impressions count for alot though.
Another problem I think is that there are not enough things to do that are not directly related to killing another player. I like the PvP, But even that can get kind of old."

I don't Know what game you where playing, but at launch Neocron was one of the most stable games, AO even SWG EQ when it first came online were not as stable Neocron, and what do you mean some many mmorpg/fps out there. There was only AO than Neocron which gave you the freedon to do whatever you want to do, no online game out there before or now gives you the freedom of Neocron. Yes the game is a little bugy but what game isn't, and yes there could be alittle more to do but that is coming and I would say to people who are going to start ther first MMorpg start with Neocron first.

Maloch Octavia

21-05-04, 23:58

Briefly, they need to allow LE users to play the game like a non-LE user.
Allow you to run Clans, like anyone else, and do the damn Epic without having to go hire a kill.

That way, the Pk'ers that are slowly destroying the game by abusing the system, and ignoring the poorly implemented rules, will need to learn to adapt, and people will be able to focus more on enjoying themselves, and enhancing their interaction, as oppossed to panicing about every goddamn move they make.

*Shrugs*

Example: The TG Spy that was sniping people at the MB Cyclops bunker.. Not killing them, but hurting the poor /15 /20's enough to really put them in danger from that next Cyclops.. He wasn't losing anything, because he wasn't killing them, and it took me to lose a wad of SL and FS, to kill him. *Sighs*

Saito Hajime

22-05-04, 05:08

I'd almost agree with you Maloch.

I do think that people should be able to wear LE as long as they want and maybe make LE clans, but I really like that Epics involve killing as its almost the only killing in the game with a roleplaying concept even remotely involved.

It shouldnt take a change of game mechanics. Sad thing is when you have people so hell bent on being dicks to each other they'll always find some way to harm or generally bother other players. Like your sniper. Talk about a wank. Theres another reason the player base is at least partly responsible for the low server pops.

Marx

22-05-04, 06:37

Yeah, events seriously man I remember even the mob spawning in pepperpark like the admin announcing "oh no fellow pro-city members protect your city from attack from teh 120/120 mobs !!!" even that was better than NOTHING now .. just OP wars , Pking it's not boring but it's not like it can't be improved and it really isn't that hard to do... honestly.
Alot of MMO's don't even have GM events or anything akin to them.

The RPG bit comes from the players, the game gives you an oppurtunity to play a different role. It sets the boundries, you make the character. I'll quote a lovely review snipit which I think fits perfectly:

Although the instruction manual has more than 20 pages dedicated to the story of "Neocron," all you really need to know is this: It's the future. Lots of bad things have happened. People really like to wear shiny leather. This is a simplification, of course, but after you've spent some time with "Neocron" you'll realize that no one else in the game cares about the story, either. They just want to run around and kill things. Is this the state of modern role-playing?

"Neocron" offers four character classes, each associated with several specific job types. Players must also join a faction. Despite the game's best intentions, though, nobody seems to want to play in character
I agree, the problem is with the players. Since the playerbase has been spoondfed events since day one, they've grown accustomed to getting them as opposed to making them. Those that do decide to make events generally find that they can actually get a good deal of support from GM's and such. Of course, that falls on deaf ears.

Nothing is more entertaining than watching people of your faction bitch at your faction counsellor about the lack of events, "Do your fucking job!" they say... They of course don't seem to fully understand the reasoning behind the position.

*sigh*

Fun fun stuff as always.

Saito Hajime

22-05-04, 06:46

Thanks for that post, I think youre pretty much on same sheet of music as I am, if a little more bleak in the outlook. I think It could be best rpg out there If we can actually RP some.

jernau

22-05-04, 06:50

Saito - This game has had so much player support it's almost terrifying. Even now at it's lowest point it still has a great community of dedicated players, supporters, GMs, Mods, etc.

If some of the older members seem jaded and negative it's because they/we have seen it all before. Debating SL, parashock, LE, loot-tables, etc again won't change anything.

It's not the player's fault the game went stale through lack of development or that poor design decisions allowed game elements to be abused for so many months that large chunks of the population left because of the problems.

Saito Hajime

22-05-04, 06:59

You're absolutely right J.

Thats why the title of this thread is not Players should take ALL responsibility.
I agree that the game needs more content. NO debate there. But when the game is marketed as an RPG I can understand players being dissappointed in the amount of roleplaying going on. Just like the quote from Tech Tv, there are alot of players who just want to kill and forget everything else. Even game concepts like faction.

I can understand being jaded, and being tired of the debates about the things you mentioned, but I would point out that almost all of those issues revolve around pvp in some way, even item drops if indirectly because everyone wants to have the pimp gear to be the pimp killer or whatever.
I know the game is pvp, and I like that. I know the PVP needs balancing. But I think that the roleplay experience could be better without harming the PVP.

Honestly I think there are 2 reasons for the lack of roleplaying in game. first, and admittedly a really large one, is the lack of support for roleplaying concepts by reakktor. B) A general lack of interest in it in many of the community because of the draw this game had from former first person shooter games like unreal/halflife/tribes whatever, where there was no such thing as character let alone character development. Where there werent even stats to play with, where each player is only set apart by how well they play the game. Nobody plays Tribes as anyone but themselves, theres no advancement of the plot. I think thats part of the reason for the lack of roleplay in neocron, simple inexperience of it, or no desire in the first place.

I wonder how many players really have much experience with real roleplay?

So while I think you are right about the fact that its not all the players fault, I think that even if its not a fault, the player community does have a large part in the fact that roleplaying is the minority in this RPG.

Marx

22-05-04, 07:12

Honestly I think there are 2 reasons for the lack of roleplaying in game. first, and admittedly a really large one, is the lack of support for roleplaying concepts by reakktor. B) A general lack of interest in it in many of the community because of the draw this game had from former first person shooter games like unreal/halflife/tribes whatever, where there was no such thing as character let alone character development. Where there werent even stats to play with, where each player is only set apart by how well they play the game. Nobody plays Tribes as anyone but themselves, theres no advancement of the plot. I think thats part of the reason for the lack of roleplay in neocron, simple inexperience of it, or no desire in the first place.As I already mentioned, most major MMO's out there offer 0% roleplay concept. Because what's the point of them spoonfeeding you something? Wouldn't you be better off in a single player game at that point? Sure, they can change the enviromoent, alter stories regarding it, etc... But they're not really supposed to say, "Ok, you're this... That means X".

KK already gave out tons of info for players to use, they also allow players to influence the WORLD HISTORY of the game... Players for the most part don't take advantage of any of that material. Hell, most FA couldn't tell you that the former bigwigs of the Fallen Angels left under the oppressive Psi Monk regime, they think they left because of the City Admin - Because of that misconception (which could have easily been cleared up if they chose to read) a whole whiny stint came about regarding how faction alliances are screwed up, blah blah, waah waah.

Also, for alot of the players I interact with... This is their first "MMO" game. So their expectations aren't grounded in the same manner that mine, or any other vet from other MMO's are.

I think that if KK, 10tacle, and Big Ben push on the RPG bit while advertising instead of the "HURR HURR, IT PLAYS ALMOST LIKE A FPS", we'd see a better crowd; hell, this game caters to the cyber-nerd culture. As it stands now they're forced to play elves and equally prissy creatures when all they really want to be is 1337 hardkore.

jernau

22-05-04, 07:13

Marx

22-05-04, 07:24

The problem with RP is that NC is strongly geared against it through poor design and implementation. Handicapping LE players, undeveloped and unrewarding trade-skills, inconsistent storylines, lack of paid GMs, lack of character customisation, very few useful emotes, near-useless GM tools, removing adverts for player events from the forums, minimal RP items (and daft pricing on the few there are) and a few dozen other major problems all served to pretty much remove all RP from the game over a year ago.

What little remained is generally stamped on by the morons and almost everyone who has the talent and inclination to support and develop RP gets frustrated and goes onto another MMORPG.

My debate examples where a bit PVP-centric but the same debates have been had over all the RP issues I mentioned above.Tradeskills don't have to be RP related. In Dark Age of Camelot they sure as hell aren't - same goes for UO. Granted, I agree that they were poorly done, but even if it turned out to be the most amazing crafting system in the world... You'd still have these problems if the community remained exactly the same.

Paid GM's - I agree. The job description of GM's changes per game, in some they're customer service people, in some they're plotline development and event people, in Neocron they're a bit of both. Because of their inability to provide consistent across the board times of availability, things are no doubt more complex than they really could have been.

RP items - don't need 'em, why? Because the few we have haven't been used in the longest, if we had more... They'd be used for a little while, but then dished out. Why? Because the current playerbase has no interest. Sure, they'll go and whine up a storm, saying "Yeah, blah blah, insert whine/flame here". But... we all know it would all go to waste.

There was a largescale RP debate (or argument depending on your perspective) the other day on Pluto between the City Admin Faction Chair and a group of 'cultists', those that weren't involved were too busy trying to fuck it up. This I think demonstrates the INABILITY of the community to make this game a MMORPG. They've no interest or reason to take part in the world. Alot of games have tons of people like these, but our lessened populations have made it hard for those that do.

The only thing which can save it is an influx of new people. Sure, alot of old hands got jaded and left, but we wouldn't even really care about them if we had a steady influx of people.

Moofausa

22-05-04, 07:27

[ edited ]

Marx

22-05-04, 07:30

[ edited ]
While I certainly admire your candor, I think your response and the many like it which will no doubt follow, show the problem at hand.

KimmyG

22-05-04, 07:49

Saito Hajime

22-05-04, 07:51

Damn I am at work and I missed that one, something tells me I didnt miss much.

anyway, yep no doubt about it. Its a combination issue, reakktor hasnt gone out of thier way to encourage role play, one may even effectively argue that they have either on purpose or inadvertantly resisted it. But I'll never be conviced that it will take player interest in RP for real gains to be made.

I'd warn the folks who decided these things to be careful in marking DOY as a RPG cause unless things change many RPG players will not hang around long.

Marx, what server, char did you play in DaOC? I had a troll zerker on some server I cant remember. Would you agree with me that the pvp system in that game was one of the better ones in RPGS?

Kimmy, I hear ya, but I would like to think that PVP and RP can co exist. I dont think Safety everywhere = encouraging roleplay.

jernau

22-05-04, 07:53

Tradeskills don't have to be RP related. In Dark Age of Camelot they sure as hell aren't - same goes for UO. Granted, I agree that they were poorly done, but even if it turned out to be the most amazing crafting system in the world... You'd still have these problems if the community remained exactly the same.
I didn't say that tradeskills had to be RP related. However if they were more interesting it would act as a focus for people to RP around/about. As it is there is no such thing as a "great constructor" for instance.

RP items - don't need 'em, why? Because the few we have haven't been used in the longest, if we had more... They'd be used for a little while, but then dished out. Why? Because the current playerbase has no interest. Sure, they'll go and whine up a storm, saying "Yeah, blah blah, insert whine/flame here". But... we all know it would all go to waste.
No-one is going to pay thousands of NC for a meal so no wonder they aren't used. I agre that whatever is left of the population probably wouldn't use them but we are talking about why things are the way they are now, not how to change them in the future.

I agree with your general point wrt the current situation but I maintain that it is the innevitable product of the way the game was designed, built, released and maintained.

Marx

22-05-04, 07:54

EH its been done.

There have been player events and such fight nights,that demolotion events NDA's rare hunt. There is only so much you can do in this game. Players did take responsiblity.

KK took the all out warfare pure no holdsbar pvp out and replaced it with nothing.Um... There still is pure noholdsbar PvP.

Unless of course you mean they added hunting zones. Nothing has really changed, granted safeslot was added (supported by majority of the players, including some who deny it nowadays ;) ). I mean, a person can still go, kill till they're red, grab some sort of epic weapon or mass produced semi-decent weapon and do missions until they aren't anymore then rinse and repeat.

Also, your definition of events is kind of off. You automatically assume "FIGHT". Not all RP or 'events' has to deal with such. In fact, the more entertaining ones don't even happen in a place where you can pop a weapon out.

I agree with your general point wrt the current situation but I maintain that it is the innevitable product of the way the game was designed, built, released and maintainedI won't disagree, because what you say is accurate. Had the game brought in more people, had it been a decent seller, things would no doubt be different. The game was designed with specialized FPS-like combat at the forefront, that was what was going to make this game unique... Of course, well... Evidently it wasn't that important.

Marx, what server, char did you play in DaOC? I had a troll zerker on some server I cant remember. Would you agree with me that the pvp system in that game was one of the better ones in RPGS?
Had a 50 merc, inf and a 48 cleric Albion Percival. Was working up some chars on mordred before I popped on Neocron... Stopped playing DAoC at that point. :p

KimmyG

22-05-04, 07:56

Kimmy, I hear ya, but I would like to think that PVP and RP can co exist. I dont think Safety everywhere = encouraging roleplay.

It did before you had

your innocent noobs almost everyone

your murders ie Ying,fatalwolf ,attrica EoN etc.

your villans EoB,TR and such

your good guys SS,NDA and such

@marx 1st couple months were no holds bars if you think there aint much difference between now and then all I can say is YOUR A VERY SPECIAL BOY"

1st month was amazing me and zoneseek and the dorito ganked some noob with are start knives and got a nicely built claw wich was amazing seeing and no one new about building weapons yet.

Having to worry about Ying flying over the hill at bunker then having to run as fast as you can to MB

Fights everywhere good times now you long in and wonder what to do pray for a good op war or go farm rares real fun

Marx

22-05-04, 08:06

@marx 1st couple months were no holds bars if you think there aint much difference between now and then all I can say is YOUR A VERY SPECIAL BOY"

1st month was amazing me and zoneseek and the dorito ganked some noob with are start knives and got a nicely built claw wich was amazing seeing and no one new about building weapons yet.

Having to worry about Ying flying over the hill at bunker then having to run as fast as you can to MB

Fights everywhere good times now you long in and wonder what to do pray for a good op war or go farm rares real funYou know the difference between then and now?

People.

The rules haven't changed all that much - you could still do whatever the hell you want to do, and enjoy it... And easily reverse any damages done to your character based on your actions.

KimmyG

22-05-04, 08:07

You know the difference between then and now?

People.

The rules haven't changed all that much - you could still do whatever the hell you want to do, and enjoy it... And easily reverse any damages done to your character based on your actions.

Have a very special day for a very special man

nuff said

GG no RE

Marx

22-05-04, 08:09

Have a very special day for a very special man

nuff said

GG no RE

While I certainly admire your candor, I think your response and the many like it which will no doubt follow, show the problem at hand.
nextmap.

Shujin

22-05-04, 08:09

O_o..... :lol:

Saito Hajime

22-05-04, 09:01

I see no really big changes to the rules as compared to before. I think the reason you don't see "fights" everywhere anymore is because most of them weren't really fights in the first place, most were one sided, hopeless massacres usually delivered by people who were much higher lvl than thier victims, and usually something stupid like a neutral factioned teamate on a hunt suddnely turning on his teamate and killing him after a fight. Usually followed by such witty remarks as "owned".

Such things were never really conducive to maintaining large server pops.

Shadow Dancer

22-05-04, 09:11

Whoa Shujin, did you make that in your sig? Very nice dude.

Moscow

22-05-04, 14:50

This was an amazing dark and gloomy game were danger lurked behind every corner in every place. Now its nothing more than pure safety everywhere.

Are you a consistent Roleplayer?

Do you know the history of your faction?

Do you know why they are allied to the factions they're allied to?

Do you have the capability to accept tha a "red" faction DOESN'T equate to all-out war and murder?

Do you know the aims of your faction?

Do you know the history of Neocron?

Do you know who your faction leader is?

If not, then you have no right to hide behind that "this is a dark and dangerous world!!!" excuse. It's poorly thought out, makes no sense coming from people that refuse to Roleplay and is a self-destroying argument: The Player Killers and the more vocal, egotistical and cowardly members of that group are the ones who brought about the changes.

The "safe slot" belt is just one such change; Player Killers refuse to lose their weapon when they go on an MB gank, yet have the nerve to keep throwing out the "carebear" and "dark dangerous world" nonsense. Look at the threads discussing the change, you'll see what I'm getting at.

Peace.

-Moscow

KimmyG

22-05-04, 19:44

This game is was made for full pvp. No SL one item hit the floor and you had to deciede wether to throw the fight and pocket your weapon or keep at it and risk loseing it.

RP how do you RP taking SL if your a TG who kills a CA for coming near the Canyon? CA raids TG ducks into a cave and TG runners will have to take SL CA enters the TG caves if TG wants them out SL hit RP that tale for me please.

This games content is spend a week in the caos caves killing minnions then spend the rest of your time killing either Warbots or Fire mobs for parts what great content.

If you want a RP future game with preety sites and sounds with a pack of RP players why play neocron. If thats what I wanted I would be waiting for face of mankind looks just like neocron only far nicer.

Fuck RP in this game I mean CA,TG,FA,Crahn and friends many red to each other really RPed well against BD.

Shujin

22-05-04, 20:15

Whoa Shujin, did you make that in your sig? Very nice dude.
yea ;)
edit:
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=99268

the one in my sig is a bit updated.
the hair is a bit lighten'd, the skin looks a bit better, and the nose is fixed.

deac

22-05-04, 21:40

I hate rp... the sooner its out of the game the better.. what i do love is the pvp and the char building... great stuff

Saito Hajime

23-05-04, 01:34

Jesterthegreat

23-05-04, 01:49

See, perfect example.

Its kinda sad really. This could be the best RPG on the market, hands down. True it needs a few touch ups, but once again. Its attitudes like "I hate rp, I just want to build characters and kill" that keep this game from really standing out among the ever growing choices of online games.
how many people on... DAoC level to level 50... and dont bother to do Realm vs Realm combat? this is hardly specific to this MMORPG. people play games to be the best they can be. 90% ofthe people who say "i just play to have fun" are talking bullshit. you play to win. if i wanted to play to have fun i would have a PE who can drive / hack / implant / use pistols / use melee / etc... i dont. i have a specialised character for fighting.

do you have a character setup to fight, or a char with skills you enjoy? a bit of this, a bit of that... and dont say "he is set up to fight, buit does things i enjoy too" cos thats stupid. you make a char to be the best he / she can be. an MMORPG is just a big team based cometition.

The last poster doesnt really mean "character building" when he says that. What he means is "Stat generation". Because nobody plays this game with character. This again is where players are part of the cause of this game not being as good as it could be. Stat generation does not make a character, no more than logging into quake or unreal makes a character. No more than Diablo 2 makes any characters. Hell its not even difficult to generate stats with downloadable stat managers any noob can do so with the smallest amount of guidance.
wrong. completely. my droner is made how i like him. i didnt just click his setup from a list. i didnt just say "ill be a droner" and come pre made. my setup was changed through my personal experiance. he was origionally a pistol char, then i decided i would like to try droning. i didnt delete him and click the "create - a - droner" button, i changed my character to how i wanted him. is a PK'er pretending to be a homicidal maniac any more of a "character" than someone who kills people for fun?

Whats really tough is making an actual "character". I dont expect any FPS rejects to understand this, but Real roleplayers know what I am talking about.
And thats the key to games like EQ and DaOC being so much more successful than this game.
i have played AO, UO, DAoC, EQ, RYL, Lineage, i have played the entire Fallout series, i have played all the Balurs Gate games, i have played the entire Daggerfall series (from Daggerfall up to Morrowind). does this mean that i am more amture? that i will be more of a "character"? when about 5% of the population RP's, does this mean that i should be part of this 5%?

no it does not. this means nothing. i am an avid RPG fan, however this doesnt make me than a FPS "reject" in any way.

If I thought It would do one damn bit of good I'd beg reakktor to make a RP server so that the griefers could have thier silly little pointless fight over and over and over and the RP's could take advantage of a good setting for Roleplay and maybe, just maybe if real roleplay happend reakktor would respond to that as well.
please point out why "greifers" couldnt join an RP server and say "well you are an enemy to my faction, and a risk to my organisation" or "I'm just following orders. the leader of my organisation / clan said to kill anyone in your faction" or indeed just play a homicidal maniac, out to kill people.

Pipe dreams I know. Sadly real roleplayers are so far and few between that the server pops would be low at best, and whats to stop griefer pigs starting there too just to piss on the RP fun. I mean, its what griefers live for, ruining the game for others.
well you pretty much acnoledged you realise the flaws here... but i'll leave my point in as its still valid

(NOTE greifer does not mean anyone who kills another player, there is a difference and I do not expect to have to explain the difference again)

Saito Hajime

whether the reasons are "RP" or not, people will kill as and when they see fit. why? because its possible. some people are assholes. this goes for RL and RP.

and who are you to decide how good someones RP is? if someone says "you are an enemy faction so i killed you" is this RP? it is playing the role of a faction member feeling threatened by a potential enemy...

i am sure i wouldn't like to decide which RP excuses are "allowable" and which arent on an RP server... would you?

jernau

23-05-04, 02:38

please point out why "greifers" couldnt join an RP server and say "well you are an enemy to my faction, and a risk to my organisation" or "I'm just following orders. the leader of my organisation / clan said to kill anyone in your faction" or indeed just play a homicidal maniac, out to kill people.
On a strict RP server a GM would kick them for bullshit like that because it's the oldest, lamest and worst non-excuse for griefing.

Saito Hajime

23-05-04, 03:37

As I said. Killing players is one thing. Playing to take enjoyment out of the game for others should not be allowed. Thats the difference.

And no, not all MMORPG are a giant "competition".

Just because you've played RP games does not make you a roleplayer, its equally easy to play any of those games without making a character.

And J is right. That homicidal maniac bit is a sorry excuse.

SirRah

23-05-04, 03:53

worst example for this is prolly the Fight Night tonite on uranus. cuz of the bullshit attitude of some ppl there it turned into a great PK fest. just a big fat THANKS to these guys. :rolleyes:

i was hosting it cuz XaNTor the original host wasnt there. i had to leave tho cuz my clan had an important meeting so Doc Holliday took over the hosting. noone would listen to him anymore cuz they got bored and pk'd each other instead. stupid kids.... :rolleyes:

thanks to doc tho for taking over the hosting, much appriciated. ;)

anyway the member of this clan PK everything that moves, even faction allies. they say they wont listen to anyone and wont follow any rules. how i hate such pricks.

Jesterthegreat

23-05-04, 04:36

On a strict RP server a GM would kick them for bullshit like that because it's the oldest, lamest and worst non-excuse for griefing.

a ha... so its the old "GM's word is final" thing then.

so we have GM's to decide whats valid RP and what isn't... wonderful (especially considering GM'sare all players / ex-players and have friends / enemies...)

jernau

23-05-04, 05:08

a ha... so its the old "GM's word is final" thing then.Yes, exactly and of course.

GMs are the game's umpires or referees. I don't know of any game where arguing with the ref is tolerated and I certainly wouldn't play it if there is one.

Marx

23-05-04, 05:31

how many people on... DAoC level to level 50... and dont bother to do Realm vs Realm combat? this is hardly specific to this MMORPG. people play games to be the best they can be. 90% ofthe people who say "i just play to have fun" are talking bullshit. you play to win. if i wanted to play to have fun i would have a PE who can drive / hack / implant / use pistols / use melee / etc... i dont. i have a specialised character for fighting.Different mechanics between here and Dark Age - With Dark Age you gained points and perks for PvP or RvR rather... Neocron offers nothing of the sort, so there is no true motivation for players to fight amongst eachother all the time. Not all players play the same way, this is a well known fact throughout every game in existance. Personally, I have just as much fun providing for the community than I do fighting and killing the individiuals within. Not everyone feels the need to fight other characters, and when more players come into the game, I think you'll be in for a suprise when you realise how many won't.

Beginning of retail? lol, sure, there were some people who fought all the time, but there were many times that number who didn't. The problem now? All the people who didn't spend their time fighting left because of a general lack of non-pvp content. Had there been a proper ad campaign we would be filling in gaps and PvP would still be done by the few instead of the masses (Thank you lowered pops).

about 5% of the population RP's, does this mean that i should be part of this 5%?No, but it certainly is advisable not to hinder those that enrich your enviroment - a general idea that is overlooked by most who play actively now.

please point out why "greifers" couldnt join an RP server and say "well you are an enemy to my faction, and a risk to my organisation" or "I'm just following orders. the leader of my organisation / clan said to kill anyone in your faction" or indeed just play a homicidal maniac, out to kill people. well you pretty much acnoledged you realise the flaws here... but i'll leave my point in as its still valid The homicidal maniac bit is flawed, because a true person of that nature would have -100 SL and still run around doing their thing... Of course, most players lack the balls to do that, so unless the person does that, I call bullshit on their ploy.

Also, red doesn't equal dead. TG is red to practically every pro-city faction. TG is also most often the home of notorious PKAR MANZes and the like... Yet they are freedom fighters... How are they freeing people by instilling fear of death and fear of the Twilight Guardian? Hell, City Admin propogranda is supposed to paint them as the bad guys, yet they're fighting for democracy and equal rights for all. Something is flawed, is it not?

Of course, that seems to be lost to most players. Had at least some decided to play in that manner, the game would certainly be more interesting. Depending on the server, you wouldn't EVER see a person or group step up to fill that position properly because they'd be shot down, called a "******", and quickly learn that it's a lesson in futility.

whether the reasons are "RP" or not, people will kill as and when they see fit. why? because its possible. some people are assholes. this goes for RL and RP.Yes, but strict real life laws keep people from killing another person who annoys them. Perhaps an equivalent ingame mechanic? Clans have to be at war to kill eachother with SL or FS hits? Perhaps make FS count as something and have faction guards attack people based on it? There are alot of ways to handle it.

and who are you to decide how good someones RP is? if someone says "you are an enemy faction so i killed you" is this RP? it is playing the role of a faction member feeling threatened by a potential enemy...I think that someone saying "OMG, U RP PANSIES SUCK ASS. FUCK OFF. GET OUT OF MY GAME" certainly fails.

i am sure i wouldn't like to decide which RP excuses are "allowable" and which arent on an RP server... would you?I would love to, it would no doubt make the server interesting and not carebear as some people beleive. "HURR HURR RP = CAREBEAR ASSHATS"

a ha... so its the old "GM's word is final" thing then.

so we have GM's to decide whats valid RP and what isn't... wonderful (especially considering GM'sare all players / ex-players and have friends / enemies...)Well, I'd certainly guess that crappy names would need to be changed... Clan names... Hell, just changes to those two things would certainly go a long way.

Seeing names like "LOL U DIED" or perhaps "lord poopyface" pop up on my local list certainly makes me love the game.

GMs are the game's umpires or referees. I don't know of any game where arguing with the ref is tolerated and I certainly wouldn't play it if there is one.Dido.

Shadow Dancer

23-05-04, 05:35

Excellent post Marx. Spot on.

The homicidal maniac bit is flawed, because a true person of that nature would have -100 SL and still run around doing their thing... Of course, most players lack the balls to do that, so unless the person does that, I call bullshit on their ploy.

Also, red doesn't equal dead. TG is red to practically every pro-city faction. TG is also most often the home of notorious PKAR MANZes and the like... Yet they are freedom fighters... How are they freeing people by instilling fear of death and fear of the Twilight Guardian? Hell, City Admin propogranda is supposed to paint them as the bad guys, yet they're fighting for democracy and equal rights for all. Something is flawed, is it not?

Of course, that seems to be lost to most players. Had at least some decided to play in that manner, the game would certainly be more interesting. Depending on the server, you wouldn't EVER see a person or group step up to fill that position properly because they'd be shot down, called a "******", and quickly learn that it's a lesson in futility.

KimmyG

23-05-04, 08:08

As I said. Killing players is one thing. Playing to take enjoyment out of the game for others should not be allowed. Thats the difference.

I disagree those hardcore pk make the game worth while. Early on I had some great fights vs pk like attricia and ACTKYC I think i was. Plus I think while me and others were running the aggy cellar pk athon events (best event ever) I think alot of people had fun fighting us I know I had fun. It sure as hell attracted attention.

Saito Hajime

23-05-04, 08:41

Kimmy. I missed that "event" ( still wonder why every thing has to equate to killing players in the minds of some ) And if those that showed up enjoyed it, more power to them. Sounds like a group of players who all wanted to participate and had fun killing/dying sweet, awesome, really I totally mean that, its hard to sound extra sincere in typing, but hey, thats good stuff.

My problem is with griefing not with what you just mentioned. What you did was fine because all the participants wanted to be there. AND there was a group enjoyment motive. I am talking specifically about the players out there (we all know them) who kill other players regardless of anything, including game concepts with the SOLE purpose of removing fun from the game for others.

I've killed players, had them come back, fight again, kill me, come back fight again, enemy faction of course, and of a similar lvl. And no.. i didnt challenge to a duel or any carebear crap. When it was all hashed out we both congratulated each other on good fights. But I've never waited in PP for someone 20 lvls lower than me who happend to not know I was there walk into my reticle and blow them away. Call it whatever you want, PK, or roleplaying a killer (good laugh that one) I call it chickenshit griefing. Dont even get me started about camping the MB genrep.

(hits own head to get back on track)

An RP server would do neocron good I think. IF they were really willing to back it up. I am talking about real time GM interaction/events, I am talking about some enforcement of game concepts. And (pure dream here) should actual RP take place, and the game get that info out to the players who were tired of the 12 year olds a year ago I could see that server out popping the others. With a little advertising to the right industry mags about actual roleplay going on in the setting of neocron... could be big, especially with the improvements we've been promised in DOY.

Oh yea, Jernau, Marx, Shadow Dancer. You guys... I mean... Ya..
Fark it, I wanna buy yall a beer.

Saito Hajime

KimmyG

23-05-04, 08:51

Saito Hajime

23-05-04, 08:54

Yippie.

So, I guess I overestimated your "event".

Thats not an event. Have you ever played an RPG before NC?

Saito Hajime

23-05-04, 10:17

(prenote) sorry didnt mean to double post but I got a phone call and cant edit the short one.

Kim, thats not an event. And disregard that last question. This isnt about whatever you have played or even how you play the game, its about the complete lack of roleplay in neocron.

I honestly dont think that actual events are all that possible right now.

Lets say I am a next tank with all i could ever want and money to spare and I decide to have some vehicles whipped up and host my own little event and pass out the vehicles/rares/whatever as a prize. I post/shout out the date/time for the event to start and when it kicks off I tell those in attendance that my boss at next wants a certain rival npc killed, in thier hq or something like that. Maybe a list of items to turn in first or whatever. Or maybe a group of players put it on and it requires not only killing some mob and turning in an item, but finding other players and getting clues as to where to find the next player, first one to complet gets the prize. Something beyond the same old hunt, or the same old op war. Could be fun for anyone who would want to participate (these are just ball park ideas here not actual blueprint for event)

Granted, it woudl be easier for players to do these things if there were more RP minded objects/characters/mobs/places to work with in the game. But I think the real reason this wont happen is because soon as the word gets out that someone is trying to do something like this some griefer (vett comes to mind, nothing personal) or group of griefers would make it thier whole mission in play that day to bust up the other players event just to be dicks. Just because the RPers dont play the way they do. We all know this is true.

So, I think Neocron should have a dedicated RP server (with pvp enabled with some very slightly different restrictions). Simultaneously though, there should be a dedicated Hardcore (Dumbcore as I like to call it) PVP server. Look, more people are happy. No more arguments about whos more carebear and whos a griefer pig. The RP folk can take advantage of the setting reakktor has provided for RP and try to help them flesh it out, make it a detailed, dynamic world in which people can still kill people, but with harsh restrictions on pure griefing, while the Dumbcore players can take a flying... err, can have thier own little "world" where they can kill kill kill till thier little hearts are content.

Saito Hajime

deac

23-05-04, 10:29

Saito Hajime

23-05-04, 10:37

It IS the best mmo ([edit by Saito] psst, you forgot the RPG part)

ffs its not something like attitudes that keeps this game from standing out.

Funny you should say that, being the guy who said "I hate roleplay, i cant wait till they take it out of the game". Really, thats amazing. I have heard of selective memory, even selective listening, but I've never seen selective reading before... I clearly said it could be the best RPG out there. NOT the best mmo, although it could be that too.

You fail to show me a reason why there cannot be a dedicated RP server with PVP that makes sense and another server for the dedicated dumbcore kill kill kill players.

Saito Hajime

KimmyG

23-05-04, 17:13

Yippie.

So, I guess I overestimated your "event".

Thats not an event. Have you ever played an RPG before NC?

Best event, I disagree with the lack of RP as well I wasn't there to RP just there to fight but there were a few people out there defending neocron and protecting the noobs and had a bunch of other RP reasons for showing.

I played older UO not to much grand content but great pvp, full loot, full pk great game alot like neocron both should have have stayed the same it was what they were made for and what they were good at.

I also played DaoC very RP geared tons of very interesting quests massive mobs that took many people to bring down thousands of items an RP heaven. Great for lack of pvp, great for RP.

Candaman

23-05-04, 17:18

blame ff

Moscow

23-05-04, 17:23

Are you a consistent Roleplayer?

Do you know the history of your faction?

Do you know why they are allied to the factions they're allied to?

Do you have the capability to accept tha a "red" faction DOESN'T equate to all-out war and murder?

Do you know the aims of your faction?

Do you know the history of Neocron?

Do you know who your faction leader is?

If not, then you have no right to hide behind that "this is a dark and dangerous world!!!" excuse. It's poorly thought out, makes no sense coming from people that refuse to Roleplay and is a self-destroying argument: The Player Killers and the more vocal, egotistical and cowardly members of that group are the ones who brought about the changes.

The "safe slot" belt is just one such change; Player Killers refuse to lose their weapon when they go on an MB gank, yet have the nerve to keep throwing out the "carebear" and "dark dangerous world" nonsense. Look at the threads discussing the change, you'll see what I'm getting at.

Still waiting on a response to this KimmyG, as opposed to something that tries to circumvent the issue(s).

Peace.

-Moscow

Saito Hajime

23-05-04, 17:44

Shrug, I think DaOC had the best pvp system I've played. Sure you cant take shit from other players specifically but realms sure could battle it out over realm items, which even played into getting into the High Lvl hunting grounds. Massive fights without massive lag, that required teamwork... DaOC pvp much more intelligent than NC.

I remember being just new enough to hit the frontiers for real as opposed to battlegrounds. 50s meeting in droves to duke it out, I go in with a party of 35s and we are of very little use in the big fight, so we play spec ops style, hiding out and waiting for an enemy war band to pass by, and pick off the straggler, 1 50th lvl caster vs 6 35th lvl players, this tactic worked like a charm guy was so busy fighting for his life at first and then trying to get away couldnt even cry for help. Was it fair? nope probalby not, but then he shouldnt have been tail end charlie, and If we can get a healer like that we can have an effect on the larger conflict at the fortress....

That game provided real reasons for people to kill people as opposed to letting people kill people for no reason.

deac

23-05-04, 18:18

You fail to show me a reason why there cannot be a dedicated RP server with PVP that makes sense and another server for the dedicated dumbcore kill kill kill players.

do i really need to? just go look at the player count. If they would make a rpg server there would be like 10 guys there... you max and 8 ppl that just want to gank the lame ass rps.

Rather bring on neptune.

jernau

23-05-04, 18:21

Rather bring on neptune.
:rolleyes:

deac

23-05-04, 18:29

:rolleyes:

yes? .....

jernau

23-05-04, 18:30

yes? .....

You are aware "Neptune" became a moot point months ago, right?

Saito Hajime

23-05-04, 18:31

No deac you dont have to show me a reason, cause its not what you want. And you cant think past what you want.

Why are there so few roleplayers, because of those attitudes I mentioned. Most are just waiting for a good Dark Future type roleplayer to come along and show reakktor how its done.

I prefer to hope that reakktor gets with it and brings some roleplay into the game they marketed as a roleplay, because I like alot of the concepts in the game.

You dont have to prove anything to me, which is good, cause you cant.

Saito Hajime

Marx

23-05-04, 19:45

do i really need to? just go look at the player count. If they would make a rpg server there would be like 10 guys there... you max and 8 ppl that just want to gank the lame ass rps.

Rather bring on neptune.
DURR DURR DURRRRR. LOW POPS WOOD MEEN LOWARD POPYULAYSHUNS.Thanks for that interjection Einstein.

Anyway, what do you think Neptune would be? A true RP server would be more 'hardcore' because there would be better, bigger battles... And better yet, they would make sense. None of this "LOL, U CALLED MY MOM A HO' BAG, UR KOS BITCH" shit that plagues Saturn and Pluto. While it happens on the other servers as well, it doesn't seem to publically happen to the same extent.

In my mind, a RP server would do the following:

Filter names and clan names.
Eliminate unneccessary safezones
Force alliances, faction allies cannot fight faction allies. If you want to fight eachother, switch factions.
Make Faction Symp count for more, stick more guards around and change their attack/warning standard.
Change faction alliances and enemies to be more suited towards the purpose of the faction as oppose to making factions for anti-social asshats.
That server would certainly be more 'hardcore' than the current servers. It would also seem more 'hardcore' than Neptune, at least based on the demands of current players.

Saito Hajime

23-05-04, 20:14

Agreed Marx.

Those would all be quite acceptable as far as I can see. Especially faction oriented combat. Hell, if players are that hell bent on blasting someone of thier own faction take it to neofrag.

Saito Hajime

Shadow Dancer

23-05-04, 20:55

Doesn't DAOC have a sytem where you can't communicate with your enemies?

Marx

23-05-04, 21:12

Doesn't DAOC have a sytem where you can't communicate with your enemies?
Yep, it makes you hate and fear your enemies more.

It also keeps the "ROFFLE, U DIED" to a minimum.

Shadow Dancer

23-05-04, 21:12

Yep, it makes you hate and fear your enemies more.

It also keeps the "ROFFLE, U DIED" to a minimum.

I think a system like that would be so awesome in NC.

Imagine not having to hear the idiotic kiddy talk everytime you killed someone.

*heaven*

Marx

23-05-04, 21:14

First and simple thing to do to move in that direction, make your faction decide which trade channel you can broadcast on. Granted, you woudn't be able to fully eliminate things of this nature with this style of chat application, but it would certainly do a bit to limit it.

Shadow Dancer

23-05-04, 21:18

I hafta say that being able to talk in a zone/trade chat also worsens the situation.

Dribble Joy

23-05-04, 21:24

Restricting cirtain factions from the different channels would help greatly.
Making the TG and CA runners not be able to hear trade-NC and trade-CS would be a great help.
Same with the other factions.

Saito Hajime

23-05-04, 23:00

That whole thing with the DaOC chat was sweet.

Makes me remember a time I ventured all by my lonesome into the neutral zone to kill a mob I needed for a quest. Suddenly I spy a tiny little man with a bow from an opposing realm. Hes WAY badder than me, so I know the only reason I am seeing him at all (hib scout) is that he wants me to.

I'm bracing for the arrow thru the chest when he steps up and casts a spell, not an offensive spell, but a passive kind of spell, had a really sweet effect, a tree grew out of the particle effects and leaves fell from it. Looked Fookin cool. So I made my character applaud. He bowed and I gave him the "wait up" sign.

I was a troll (read really big) berserker, which gave me the ability to morph into a werebear every so often for crazy melee madness. So I do so, now I am a big brown bear, and I do the /dance command. Now I'm a big brown dancing bear.

My counterpart did a laugh emote and then applauded, then he died. You see a clan mate and I had been talking sine I saw him. This clan mate came up unannounced and used his runic magic (boom boom specialist) to blow the little bugger all to hell.

It was a beautiful and touching moment.

Saito Hajime.