View Full Version : THREADS MERGED - secret rank from epics and missions
well ive noticed these ranks on my cster even tho i aint done any epics apart from pp. ive done alota missions 2 cap psi and got 3 base ranks woth out leveling anything. today i got 2 and hopoing for another but its getting insane i aint even capped int/dex i have hawking RD SRI and SS in and my base rank is /74. dpes any1 kknow how many i can get and wats the highest recorded UNDRUGGED base rank
matters what class, I've seen some monks with insanely combat ranks, with high total ranks too.
THERE IS NO 6th stat !!
you donīt get /RANK from missions and epics..
you get it from EXP
the overall exp values determine your combat rank, through some formula.
when you get the "ding" it doesnt mean you got a skill in the 6th value.
it means your skill rank changed due to the exp reaching a specific rank changing value.
well ive noticed these ranks on my cster even tho i aint done any epics apart from pp. ive done alota missions 2 cap psi and got 3 base ranks woth out leveling anything. today i got 2 and hopoing for another but its getting insane i aint even capped int/dex i have hawking RD SRI and SS in and my base rank is /74. dpes any1 kknow how many i can get and wats the highest recorded UNDRUGGED base rank
The highest rank on spy i'v seen is 76, but i dunno if he was drugging or not..
most of caped spy's got 72-74 ranks if u stick some "out of plase" imps u might get higher rank
cid is /76 spy without drugs
The highest rank on spy i'v seen is 76, but i dunno if he was drugging or not..
most of caped spy's got 72-74 ranks if u stick some "out of plase" imps u might get higher rank
Sick, aka Jinx0r, in pimp has a spy with ***83/ rank(And i think i've seen it higher) and he doesn't wear weird imps or use drugs. *shrug*
he's talking about overall rank, not combat rank.
Overall rank seem to take in account level boosts but not losses.
you can get any rank you want if u do enough missions
you can get any rank you want if u do enough missions
Is basically so true.... yet by Naimex's theory, when a char is capped, they cannot raise their rank any further.... by his theory it would be impossible, even with drugs and imps... since he thinks its all XP based. O_o
Shadow Dancer
20-05-04, 06:16
you can get any rank you want if u do enough missions
Are you serious?
So you can get rank XX/127?
he's talking about overall rank, not combat rank.
Overall rank seem to take in account level boosts but not losses.
Ergo, if you LoM so much that you lose a level in an attribute, the overall level does not change. When you next increase the attribute, the overall level increases.
yes SD, just waste the rest of your years doing missions and you will be 127 eventually...
ReefSmoker
20-05-04, 06:20
Just do missions, lots of, preferably of the highest difficulty. By doing the missions, you get experience in all 5 main stats, as well as a 6th stat that is not visible. The 6th stat can be heard to 'ding' as you do missions and gain a level in it, noticable when none of your 5 regular stats have levelled but you still hear it.
Some deny the 6th stat exists, some want more evidence. To the latter, all you need do is a lot of very difficult missions and soon you will notice your overall rating increase even if you do not level any of the 5 main stats.
It all seems like a long time ago now, but there's posts on these forums where we discussed the discrepencies with the overall rank, and the end conclusion by all participants in the debate was that a 6th stat must exist, there were no other plausible explanations given at the time. Maybe someone has more insight now and evidence enough to refute this claim. If so, I'm all ears.
Take care,
Reefie
THERE IS NO 6th stat !!
you donīt get /RANK from missions and epics..
Im leveling a new spy atm. And i watched my rank while i was doing the TT epic.
Theres a hidden 6th skill. That only levels through mission. I had that "BING" twice without getting a levelup, my rank went up though.
Also that rank works like every other skill, the higher it gets, the more xp it needs. Theres tanks with /70 and other with the same setup who are /65. Just because of mission xp.
/Edit
SD, yes you can. If you see someone with a real high rank whos not on drugs, its just missions he did. The more you do the harder it gets though, so have fun. :)
Sorry to sink your battle ship but I have talked to GM's about this and there is NO 6th stat. Yes you level with missions but there is not a hidden stat. But call it what u wish...
Sorry to sink your battle ship but I have talked to GM's about this and there is NO 6th stat. Yes you level with missions but there is not a hidden stat. But call it what u wish...Then explain why your overall rank continues to go up? Something is leveling, it has to be because it's effecting the average; hence increased rank.
It may not be a viable stat, but there is a stat that is going up.
rena chan on pluto is /77 undrugged
It is funny..the 6th stat.
I think there is no 6th stat, there is A BUG in the game, that KK should fix.
Somewhy this bug doesnt appy to all chars.
For example my APU is not affected. I did 100 V.hard CST missions, 2 epics, and gues what, my overal rank is /64 with all imps and PA3 (will be /66-67 if I Get last 9 int and 4 dex levels).
One spy is literally capped, 1 more int to cap. 2 Epics, a lot of missions to cap the psi, etc. He is /67 only!!! On the othe hands my other spy is faaar from being capped and /64 already so from claculating the remaining points to be capped he will be around /73-74 when capped.
Weird huh?
I think bug is appicable to some starting professions and is not to others.
Dunno, someone in KK should really test it and fix it. There is no point for the stupid secret skill and unfair high overal ranks (Im sick of ppl who are shouting and showing off their teh uber lvl^^)
Freaky Fryd
20-05-04, 10:08
Through drugs, calculations and common sense, I figured my 6th skill to be levelled up to 33 now.
My current overall rank is 66 (due to my kamikaze chip.)
My CON, STR, DEX, INT and PSI add up to 300, so my rank should be 60 with no remainder.
Because there's no remainder, I should need 5 levels to get another rank point.
When I take a drug that gives me +3, my rank moves to 67.
That means my 6th skill is contributing 2, 3 or 4 towards another rank point.
With +12 in drugs, I get 3 rank points (69 total.)
That means my 6th skill can't be contributing 2 points - it has to be 3 or 4.
With +16 in drugs, I get 3 rank points (69 total.)
That means my 6th skill must be 3, because if it was 4 I would get a rank of 70.
Ta da!
EDIT: If I were a tradeskiller, my overall rank would be 77
Original monk
20-05-04, 10:15
my mate in real life angeldust dropped by every day a few months ago ... he didnt do anything but missions ... all epics, all missions, heavy res missions, aggressor and launcher missions ... and he's still doing em actually but not every second of the day for weeks luckely :)
he's now a baserank 75 tank ... think thats witouth dexchips, no drugging, no PA and he thinks he wont get a bling nomore now, altough he's still doing missions etc to check it out :)
altough im not sure if he uses filter2 or exp2 :/
edit: and ROFL at jernau :P here we go again :P
and very cool to see reefsmoker hanging around here :)
KK has repeatedly said in the past on the fourms there is no 6th Stat
have a nice day runners
everyone loves a good conspiracy theory, the more you say there is no sixth stat the more everyone beleves that there is one.
altough im not sure if he uses filter2 or exp2 :/
edit: and ROFL at jernau :P here we go again :P
and very cool to see reefsmoker hanging around here :)Yer, he said he'd be 76 if he took out his fh2
KK has repeatedly said in the past on the fourms there is no 6th Stat
All right, so what determines overall skillrank?
simple average of your stats
int, dex, str, con, psi
add upp all your final stats with implants and armor and divide by five
to a certain extent this holds true, i belive the other factor is your armor and imps in general bone enforcements, types of belt weather ya using a rifle 1 compaired to a rifle 3 eye
<edited>
simple average of your stats
int, dex, str, con, psi
add upp all your final stats with implants and armor and divide by five
to a certain extent this holds true, i belive there is another factor but cant remember
So why do we here the bling sometimes after completing a mission/epic and no stat has the message "XXX has increased to level XX"? And then our rank goes up? Sounds like a sixth stat to me, unless there is a special "stat" which increases when you do missions, to separate people who do missions/epics from those that don't.
Ok, let's take my spy. 88/63.
96+22+36+124+20=298
298/5=59,6
Now, to get 63 from the involment of a 6th stat, this 6th stat would have to be 80! o_O
96+22+36+124+20+80=378
378/6=63
Given that you would divide it by 6 of course.
Now, if you would divide all the stats, including the potential 6th one, by 5 instead it makes more sense. Then the 6th stat would have to be 17, which sounds about right in my case (quite a few hard ressing missions). Also, I did enough missions to cap PSI at 20. The 6th stat line potentially starts at 0, so the PSI line would have a small "heads start", which could justify the level being at 17 only while PSI is at 20.
96+22+36+124+20+17=315
315/5=63
I don't know... we'll probably never know until we are told :p
Last August Thantos i belive made a post saying that there was No 6th stat ;)
but there was an officail post made back last summer in regaurds to this matter
I have done a stupid amount of missions for every faction and completed 7 epics, I dunno whether that is for or against the argument.
I get accused a lot of being maxed when I change implant setups. I cant remember whether I get /73 or /74 undrugged and no PA on base int 99 base dex 89, just by altering chips.
Original monk
20-05-04, 12:04
simple average of your stats
int, dex, str, con, psi
add upp all your final stats with implants and armor and divide by five
to a certain extent this holds true, i belive the other factor is your armor and imps in general bone enforcements, types of belt weather ya using a rifle 1 compaired to a rifle 3 eye
<edited>
freya offcourse im completely agreeing with you and certainly not denying what you say
but: :P for in example angeldust here i saw em every day and he was a rank 71 tank ... with the same setup he always uses ... same armour,same chips, same eyes etc ... not even PA ... he didnt change he's resists/setup cause he's tank was completely capped and the way he liked it ... for some time by now
now he heard me saying sumthing about a thread here that said that you could gain rank further if you did missions and such :)
so ffcourse he set he' mind onto doing all epics and as many possible missions for weeks and weeks non stop ... boring as hell ffcourse :)
after all the missions he's now 75 baserank possible 76 if he changes he's filter2 into a exp2
now: he was completely capped, completely, didnt changed anything about he's setup/imps/bones/armour but still he gained 4 ranks baserank by doing non stop missions ... where do these 4 ranks come from ?
now i dont believe in secret stats or hidden this or mistery that ... but i do believe its true that you can keep leveling youre baserank for a littlewhile with a few ranks by doing missions and epics ... i dunno why or the mechanics but i seen them ranks with my own eyes :P
(otherwise angeldust wouldnt be doing missions and epics for weeks ya see :) )
or maybe there is sumthing else involved where i dont know about but those are the things i saw and it feels like im talking about seeing a ufo or sumthing :)
anyway enjoy posting i gonna enjoy my vacaction a bit :)
@Freya
My SPY is capped.
At cap I was /75 base rank (Without Drugs).
I've done 2 epics and now I'm /76 (Without Drugs)... Go Figure.
I keep gettin dings every so often when I do my missions. So is your information wrong or is the game fucked?
-----------
With Drugs and PA4 I'm /80 :cool:
u know wat 4get 6th stat and wen u do missions and hear a ding my rank dont know up it goes up wen i dont hear a ding
no matter wat bloody KK say that there is no sixth start and shit like that, then explain 2 me how im getting these ranks.
its simple do missions get ranks and the guy that disagreed i also did untill now wen i was trying 2 cap psi on my droner and i didnt level BUT then i got a level and at the rate its goin on now if i put an sa in my cster wen his fully capped i can reach 77 (with out dont anymore missions from now)
Freeejumper
20-05-04, 12:34
http://mitglied.lycos.de/freeejumper/shot0118.JPG
here we go :) ...
135 + 37 + 43 +121 +20 = 356 ...
356 / 5 = 71,2 ... :O hmmmm, well as carb said there is no 6th rank :angel:
hrhr here we go again..
So who won the betting pool this time? :p
:D
___T-X____
20-05-04, 14:19
There is a Mission Skill that awards Rank, ive done epics at mid level recently, and watched my rank ping up with no level increae..tried...and tested
(Note: These are Folsom's thoughts on how the "6th stat" works, and this is unconfirmed)
As some of us are aware, you can get "dings" even when fully capped, specifically from missions.
These are actually one of your already capped stats "gaining" a level, when the server sees that it thinks "OMGHAX", and quickly puts that stat down again, but for some reason now believes all your stats added together now make for 301, instead of the usual 300.
Because of that, once you've capped at least one stat, you can start gaining in the "6th stat", it does not have a real form, it just adds to what you stats are when added together. In fact, there most likely is not even a real 6th stat stored, just the fact that one of your stats is higher than it can actually be. But this for some reason get's included when calculating your overall rank (Or second tank).
As to what I base this off, that's simply observations made during very hard research missions. After doing so for a while, I noticed that every time I got a "ding" with no reason, my psi experience reset to a certain point, instead of appearing overcapped like it did before. My droner should, either way, have an interestingly high combat rank in comparison to most characters, as he's by now at 34 base strength from missions alone.
Let's just post his stats (counting implants) and ranking for completeness:
##/61
85 Intelligence
25 Strength
38 Constitution
104 Dexterity
20 PSI Power
85 + 25 + 38 + 104 + 20 = 272 / 5 = 54.4
Apparently, I've had a total of at least 33 "unrecorded" level ups, as I remember from psi monks I levelled, getting to 22 PSI would require a total of 54000 experience, roughly 6000 more than you keep getting reset to.
Now, I just checked, my strength experience is currently roughly 200000 higher then the point my psi experience keeps resetting too.
200000/6000 = 33.33
Now of course, the above is not 100% accurate, as a spy starts with slightly more strength than PSI. And I'm not really certain about the required experience for 22 PSI.
As to why it's 22 PSI I keep mentioning, while 21 PSI would be the logical level for it to check at, most likely Neocron knows it should not check at one level above cap, but assumes the experience get's reset before reaching the level past that.
If there is no sixth stat or hidden factor contributing to base ranks, then tell me what 'Mission Points' are and what relevance they have to the game since they have been there since Beta.
(Mission Points: Points obtained when doing any mission of any type. Indicated on the citycom after sympathy and reward).
ok then is it dependent on how many missions u do or the type of missions u do eg easy hard very hard
hrhr here we go again..
People talk it about because there is obviously some wierd formula you guys have written and I have yet to see a decent explanation of how the overall rank is calculated.
Why donīt you guys get it ??
These things are factors in skill rank :
you get A rank when you cap all the skill lvls
then you can go higher, since SKILL RANK is based on skill lvl (with imps) and amount of xp !!
When you lom heavy, you see youīre skill rank go down, then when you get the lvls back up, it goes back up, and then when you get MAX exp (that means those 172 mil for the 100 skill lvls) then you get the complete CAP RANK.
you cannot exceed that rank and then you can do all the missions in the world.
@Naimex
Although your response is feasible it didn;t answer my question ;)
v[ortice']@Naimex
Although your response is feasible it didn;t answer my question ;)
I believe those were meant to be a factor in Clan Missions which has been removed quite a long time ago.
but my guess is as good as yours, but I DO NOT believe it to affect skill rank at all
I calculated a little bit :)
result: 2000 very hard ress missis = 6th skill level 50
that means you get 10 more base ranks after doing 2000 very hard missis :)
Richard Blade
20-05-04, 15:54
To add some fuel to this fire...
My tank killed a nomad trader with a near mis on a Johnny5.
To get my SL back up to where I like it, he did several missions of the hard veriety.
I kept track after the first ding. It was the exact amount of xp that you would need to gain between levels 16 and 17.
I kept track after the second ding. It was the exact amount of xp that you would need to gain between levels 17 and 18.
I believe there is a 6th stat, or a bug that acts as a 6th stat.
These results can be reproduced.
The math on his current baseskill rank show's that he is level 18 in that mystery skill.
edit: Oh yeah, Heya, Reefsmoker! Glad to see you're keeping an eye on things.
If you're interested, check out the new recycle recipes in the patch notes for 199 (I think it was).
If KK says there is no sixth stat then plain and simple there isn't. BUT, its not a sixth stat, its a bug. Gaining skill rank with missions is plain and simple a FACT. Any player who has ever done many missions knows it. Any one official would be stupid to deny it.
v[ortice']If there is no sixth stat or hidden factor contributing to base ranks, then tell me what 'Mission Points' are and what relevance they have to the game since they have been there since Beta.
(Mission Points: Points obtained when doing any mission of any type. Indicated on the citycom after sympathy and reward).
I always thought, that would be the points earned on your "Faction Loyalty" account for that faction.
EDIT: and maybe also the points on your SL-value
(although there must be some difference with SL, as you will regain a higher SL than +10 after killing friends or green NPCs if you had this higher SL before)
/EDIT
HTH, Wilco
I dunno Wilco...
Ur Symp goes up by either 1 point or 2 with each mission. Maybe there are faction sub-points there to be had to gain 1 point in sympathy?
No, it doesn't ... believe me, my LEd tradechar does missions for every faction, and if you're above, lets say FL 60 with a faction, you have to accomplish more than one hard/very hard mission to get a raise in your FL with that faction.
Regards, Wilco
P.S.: of course it's me doing the missions with my char...
i haven't (yet) installed the (melon dude) Autocamp2000... ^^ :angel: :D
There is a bug which increases your base rank by doing missions, however it does not apply to everyone. There is a tank on uranus who has done a lot of missions and epics yet his rank is still /63 or so.
How to test it? Easy go to the testserver; make a new char, cap him fully with loms (if they work). This char has never done missions before so his '6th stat line' is 0. Now go and make some missions and note down every XP you get. After around 850 XP you should hear a ding. then again at 1400 and 2000...
After the 4th ding you should gain one overall rank. I tested it.
Here's a list of what lvl needs how many XP points.
Originally posted by ericdraven:
Lvl EXP
1 884
2 1.344
3 1.938
4 2.627
5 3.425
6 4.343
7 5.397
8 6.604
9 7.981
10 9.551
11 11.334
12 13.357
13 15.648
14 18.238
15 21.161
16 24.456
17 28.165
18 32.335
19 37.017
20 42.270
21 48.157
22 54.748
23 62.120
24 70.360
25 79.563
26 89.833
27 101.285
28 114.049
29 128.263
30 144.084
31 161.684
32 181.251
33 202.994
34 227.142
35 253.949
36 283.694
37 316.685
38 353.259
39 393.790
40 438.688
41 488.405
42 543.439
43 604.336
44 671.700
45 746.191
46 828.540
47 919.547
48 1.020.092
49 1.131.146
50 1.253.772
51 1.389.141
52 1.538.538
53 1.703.378
54 1.885.211
55 2.085.744
56 2.306.851
57 2.550.587
58 2.819.212
59 3.115.207
60 3.441.295
61 3.800.465
62 4.195.998
63 4.631.496
64 5.110.909
65 5.638.575
66 6.219.251
67 6.858.156
68 7.561.015
69 8.334.109
70 9.184.324
71 10.119.214
72 11.147.060
73 12.276.944
74 13.518.822
75 14.883.607
76 16.383.265
77 18.030.908
78 19.840.912
79 21.829.024
80 24.012.508
81 26.410.272
82 29.043.044
83 31.933.524
84 35.106.580
85 38.589.464
86 42.412.008
87 46.606.908
88 51.209.952
89 56.260.348
90 61.801.020
91 67.878.976
92 74.545.680
93 81.857.480
94 89.876.080
95 98.668.992
96 108.310.160
97 118.880.472
98 130.468.528
99 143.171.232
100 157.094.672
CAP 172.354.944
So there is no 6th stat line - its just a bug for 95% of the community.
@Wilco
Read what I said again mate, I agreed with you. I know that symp after 60 goes up in higher increments as I have done many many wonderful missions before now.
@Sirrah
So your saying there's a sixth stat then :p
0HN0Z, its teh WISDOM OF CERES skill, dats why KK keeps denying its existence ;)
^^ hrhrhr
ReefSmoker
20-05-04, 18:27
KK has repeatedly said in the past on the fourms there is no 6th Stat
have a nice day runners
simple average of your stats
int, dex, str, con, psi
add upp all your final stats with implants and armor and divide by five
to a certain extent this holds true, i belive the other factor is your armor and imps in general bone enforcements, types of belt weather ya using a rifle 1 compaired to a rifle 3 eye
Last August Thantos i belive made a post saying that there was No 6th stat ;)
but there was an officail post made back last summer in regaurds to this matter
Ok, since you're in denial, let me present a case, fresh from this morning for your perusal.
Made a new toon, first thing I did was to chuck away the basic items that new toons come with. So to elaborate, I am working with a naked toon, no armour, no implants, no weapons, no tools, no drugs, nothing. Not even a bag of doritos to fend off hunger while I executed this experiment.
I levelled all 5 stats to level 20 using missions. This was the only way I have levelled this toon.
At level 10 in all 5 stats, according to the info you have posted I should be a 0/10 runner, because there's nothing to factor into the equation except Int, Str, Con, Dex and PSI. Remember, no armour, implants, bone enforcements, nada.
The reality was that I was a 0/12 runner.
At level 20 in all 5 stats, I should have been a 0/20 runner. Instead I am now a 0/24 runner.
Please substantiate your claims that there is no sixth stat, by providing suitable evidence to collaborate the rankings I am experiencing, which are in direct contradiction to what you have stated Freya.
This is all rather strange, before I resigned from my role in the Neocron team, the sixth stat was commonly acknowledged by all GMs, including Thanatos and SnowCrash. Why is it being denied now ?
Take care,
Reefie
Freeejumper
20-05-04, 18:29
Ok, since you're in denial, let me present a case, fresh from this morning for your perusal.
Made a new toon, first thing I did was to chuck away the basic items that new toons come with. So to elaborate, I am working with a naked toon, no armour, no implants, no weapons, no tools, no drugs, nothing. Not even a bag of doritos to fend off hunger while I executed this experiment.
I levelled all 5 stats to level 20 using missions. This was the only way I have levelled this toon.
At level 10 in all 5 stats, according to the info you have posted I should be a 0/10 runner, because there's nothing to factor into the equation except Int, Str, Con, Dex and PSI. Remember, no armour, implants, bone enforcements, nada.
The reality was that I was a 0/12 runner.
At level 20 in all 5 stats, I should have been a 0/20 runner. Instead I am now a 0/24 runner.
Please substantiate your claims that there is no sixth stat, by providing suitable evidence to collaborate the rankings I am experiencing, which are in direct contradiction to what you have stated Freya.
This is all rather strange, before I resigned from my role in the Neocron team, the sixth stat was commonly acknowledged by all GMs, including Thanatos and SnowCrash. Why is it being denied now ?
Take care,
Reefie
omg its reefsmoker omg omg omg ! i thought i killed you oooohhhhhmyyygooood he s alive :I :eek:
@J Folsom - that doesn't explain how it happens to completely new chars who are miles from capping anything.
Whatever it is there is something happening. As players we can only treat it as a black box problem - ie make changes and see how it reacts to them. Having done this we can prove that whatever is in the "box" behaves exactly the same as a sixth stat would (for all players where it occurs). This works both ways - we can predict it's reactions as well as explain them with hindsight.
No other theory can claim to explain what is happening.
Therefore until KK provide a complete explanation we can only treat it as a sixth skill line. They have clearly denied that is what it is but as it can be shown to exactly imitate one then anyone wanting to use it to boost their rank can treat it as such. In the absence of a better name for the phenomenon it makes sense to name it after that which it so closely resembles.
/edit - good to see you're still lurking Reefie :).
ReefSmoker
20-05-04, 18:30
omg its reefsmoker omg omg omg ! i thought i killed you oooohhhhhmyyygooood he s alive :I :eek:
Check page 1 of this thread, and check back, I make one post a month on average :p
This is all rather strange, before I resigned from my role in the Neocron team, the sixth stat was commonly acknowledged by all GMs, including Thanatos and SnowCrash. Why is it being denied now ?
Take care,
Reefie
Or was it ?!? ... its obvious there is something there.. something pushing the rank up .. BUT its not a skill you cannot see .. infact it has been said sometimes now .. and yes i also is led to belive that its a Bug nothing more nothing less..
i thought there were no bugs? only features :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: i crack myself up
Don't Fear the Reefer ^^
I'm sure Thanny acknowledged there was a sixth stat on this evry forum... but i can;t find the thread. I know QuantumDelta was posting on that thread and I'm not searching thru all his posts for it :)
ReefSmoker
20-05-04, 20:01
Or was it ?!? ... its obvious there is something there.. something pushing the rank up .. BUT its not a skill you cannot see .. infact it has been said sometimes now .. and yes i also is led to belive that its a Bug nothing more nothing less..
It is a bug that has existed for two years then :p
This 'issue' has existed since the product was launched, it was reported back in beta 4 along with early retail, and was experienced, but no explanation available at the time back in beta 3. It has been discussed numerous times on these forums, and was also referred on directly to Ulrich by myself via email last summer.
If it's a bug, why's it not been fixed yet ?
Take care,
Reefie
greendonkeyuk
20-05-04, 21:39
the truth of the matter is even MJS prolly doesnt know what it is. the maths prove its not a character affecting stat but still it is there and ranks do go up from doing missions, i imagine its happened to nearly everyone whos played this game for any length of time. If people (kk included) dont know what it is why not jus come out and say that. its better than making up half assed arguments saying whether its a bug or not, ive seen plenty of reasonable arguments here saying it does exist but so far all weve had back is denial.....
(edited lol wilco i was tryin to throw em a lifeline)
@greendonkeyuk:
Why do you think, politicians don't tell when they have no clue?
The same counts for companies... :rolleyes: :angel:
SCNR, Wilco
THERE IS NO 6th stat !!
you donīt get /RANK from missions and epics..
you get it from EXP
the overall exp values determine your combat rank, through some formula.
when you get the "ding" it doesnt mean you got a skill in the 6th value.
it means your skill rank changed due to the exp reaching a specific rank changing value.
that is untrue... i did alot of research missions.... and i can 'sense' that at every ding the next ding takes longer than previous one.... IE 'levels'.... now with all the lvling psi ive done how come i never gotten a ding without getting a real lvl... only with missions i get these 'secret' dings
Freaky Fryd
20-05-04, 22:16
At least with the Roswell incident, they said it was a weather balloon instead of just saying that it wasn't a UFO...
;)
Richard Blade
20-05-04, 22:45
Why do you think, politicians don't tell when they have no clue?
The same counts for companies... :rolleyes: :angel:
SCNR, Wilco
Because, if their lips are moving, they're lying. :D
Errr, politicians, not KK. I've never accused KK of lying, and that isn't where this thread needs to go.
that is untrue... i did alot of research missions.... and i can 'sense' that at every ding the next ding takes longer than previous one.... IE 'levels'.... now with all the lvling psi ive done how come i never gotten a ding without getting a real lvl... only with missions i get these 'secret' dings
I have had lots of dings whilst hunting, without getting lvls, and when iīve gotten that ding my combat rank has risen
and I havenīt done missions.
explain that then
simple average of your stats
int, dex, str, con, psi
add upp all your final stats with implants and armor and divide by five
to a certain extent this holds true, i belive the other factor is your armor and imps in general bone enforcements, types of belt weather ya using a rifle 1 compaired to a rifle 3 eye
<edited>
May i kindly ask you to explain why you can be wearing the exact same armour/ weapons/ imps, have all overcapped XP in all stats, yet do missions and still get a higher rank.
Seriously, if its not some "other stat", there MUST be an explaination. If you cant explain it, you could also be wrong in your above statement.
well carb says its a bug but now my spy has a /75 base rank
lol this is goin crazy now and im still not capped
My reasoning why rank doesn't go high for everyone is because the "6th skill" is capped depending on class :) Also the rank counts the "6th skill" in the formula but divides everything by 5 and not 6
If we assume for a second that there is this 6th stat.
And that it works from the
int+str+con+dex+psi/5+(skillrank-(int+str+con+dex+psi/5))
then by that definition my :
Tank would be at rank 3 in 6th stat
and that would mean that "Ericdravens" 6th stat exp values are out of line, since my tank has done more than at least 100 hard missionsī.
Monk would be at rank -0.2 in 6th stat
and she has done enough missions to be at least at the 1st lvl of the "6th stat" ranking.
So far we can conclude that the exp values are not correct at all, if it even exists.
(notice that my monk is at -0.2 in the supposed 6th stat.. hmm.. lets see.. what did I say ? was it that it was EXPERIENCE that controlled the skill rank ?.. well there are no comma values in ranking, so the flip point at ,5 would mean 1 higher ranking.)
And the thing about it only applying to SOME people would mean it was a bug.
Which I donīt believe it is, and would thereby be classified as an illusion, that has dug deep into the mind of the believers of the 6th stat.
However, here is a funny thing.
My spy, hasnīt done a single mission, and not a single epic and his Skill rank and formula rank, are exactly the same, which would conclude that something is manipulating the skill rank, but both in a positive and a negative kind of way.
this could be a secondary formula that calculates a number from our subskills, adding it to the skillrank.
Which would explain why some ranks are higher and in my monks case lower.
but again, it might just be the comma values equaling out the skill rank still.
So far only very few traces of a possible 6th stat has been found.
My PE, is at skill rank 62, the formula says it is 61.6 (meaning that it does infact equal up/down the skill rank, depending on comma values)
and again, my PE has done at least missions enough for the first "6th stat" value.
The 6th stat is an illusion, nothing more, nothing less.
tomparadox
21-05-04, 04:25
Are you serious?
So you can get rank XX/127?
no you cant i dont think. if you can it would take a long long long time... im talking probly 10 months + maby years lol but i dont even thing you can without being over caped. i herd someware that /80 is the highest without druging.
Very off topic here :
Tomparadox
your forum in siggy says :
This Account Has Been Suspended
Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible!!
heres a simple way to explain it for example ur typical capped tank (capped con to) with the following imps Herc, Move on, PP resistor, filter heart 2 and harden back bone 3 which is the typical tank imps setup for HC. The typical rank from this is xx/68 however on my tank i have done like a gabillion very hard research missions due to being so bored from the game when there isnt anything else to do and my rank is xx/72 with that Imp setup that I mentioned. Whether its the 6th stat or not u level from the missions/epic's it still affects your rank but chances are i reckon it is the 6th stat
heres a simple way to explain it for example ur typical capped tank (capped con to) with the following imps Herc, Move on, PP resistor, filter heart 2 and harden back bone 3 which is the typical tank imps setup for HC. The typical rank from this is xx/68 however on my tank i have done like a gabillion very hard research missions due to being so bored from the game when there isnt anything else to do and my rank is xx/72 with that Imp setup that I mentioned. Whether its the 6th stat or not u level from the missions/epic's it still affects your rank but chances are i reckon it is the 6th stat
Notice you say : skill rank is 68 with herc and fh 2..
I have no herc, and I have no FH 2, my skill rank is 68..
a lot of others skill ranks are 68..
ive seen both /70, /72 and /73 tank ranks, without drugs.
personally tho i can only get to those ranks by drugging.
subskills matter, skill lvls matter, exp matters.
Notice you say : skill rank is 68 with herc and fh 2..
I have no herc, and I have no FH 2, my skill rank is 68..
a lot of others skill ranks are 68..
ive seen both /70, /72 and /73 tank ranks, without drugs.
personally tho i can only get to those ranks by drugging.
subskills matter, skill lvls matter, exp matters.
so i can assume instead of fh2 and herc u use Cyber heart 2 or exp heart 2 and a Advanced movement 3 controller ? which that setup will result in similar stats as the setup i mentioned
so i can assume instead of fh2 and herc u use Cyber heart 2 or exp heart 2 and a Advanced movement 3 controller ? which that setup will result in similar stats as the setup i mentioned
EXP heart 2, and no adv
Hardenback 3, exp heart 2, mc eye 3, marine, move on, PP, zerk 3.
Richard Blade
21-05-04, 05:09
Naimex,
My monk is xx/57.
INT 80, STR 15, CON 41, DEX 35, PSI 100. With imps etc.
His rank should be 54 if you add those up and divide by 5.
If you take 57 x 5 you get 285. 285 - 271 = 14. 14 divided by 5 = 3.
54 +3 = 57.
My tank is xx/67.
INT 20, STR 119, CON 96, DEX 61, PSI 10. With imps etc.
His rank should be 61.2.
67 x 5 = 335. 335 - 306 = 29. 29 / 5 = 6.
61 + 6 = 67.
My capped spy is xx/70.
INT 102, STR 40, CON 43, DEX 121, PSI 20. With imps & armor etc.
His rank should be 65.2
70 x 5 = 350. 350 - 326 = 24. 24 / 5 = 5.
65 + 5 = 70.
All of them have done between a few and a shitload of missions. The tank has 7 epics under his belt. He is nearly capped, only 9 levels of con to go. The monk only two epics and a few very hard missions. The monk is far from capped.
The spy has one epic, and is fully capped. Although, he has done several very hard level missions.
My fourth slot is a newbie standing in MC5 killing flies with a drone. No missions or anything there yet.
If you've made it this far in the post, here is where I give you a point that might help us all out. The three characters I've detailed above were created a long time ago. They're still running, but are over a year old.
If your characters aren't as old as that, maybe this is a bug that only affects the old timers.
But, it sure looks like a 6th stat to me.
then maybe as you say it only affects OLD timers, since all my old chars have been deleted for various reasons, and all but my tanks rank matches the formula.
my tank is 3 points off the formula, and he is the last old char I have
(actually my 2nd char ever, deleted the first monk (had him for 2 years when i deleted) a while ago)
my tank is closing in on the 2 years of "age".
So your theory of it only applying to older chars is acceptable in my book.
Except it is still happening on new characters.
The ONLY problem with the "6th stat theory" is that some people don't get it at all. Note that they don't get a different version - they get nothing - it all works as KK say it should.
These unaffected chars can be any class and any age and seem to be a minority based on the many previous threads on this topic.
Why do some people not experience it? I have no idea but there are so many "oddities" in this game's code and formulas that I could easily believe they are just bugged in some way and no-one cares because it isn't obvious how.
Richard Blade
21-05-04, 06:29
I'm headed for bed right now, have to work tomorrow.
But, tomorrow evening, I'll work on leveling my newbie up with some plant missions and his drones. That might give me some more information.
It seems odd though, all my characters up until this last one have had that rank issue. I'll know about this one soon enough.
Best regards,
RB.
I'm not even going to read this entire thread. I've read so many of these i'm sick of it.... Yes i did hear the f*cking bling and not gaining a lvl. But believe me when I say there is NO 6TH STAT.
Does Nidhogg really have to say this in every thread which is being made about this bullshit???
Don't bother - naimex is skeptic... You tell him the sky is blue... he'll tell you "no, the sky is black, the gases in atmosphere radiated by solar rays make them seem blue"
Don't bother - naimex is skeptic... You tell him the sky is blue... he'll tell you "no, the sky is black, the gases in atmosphere radiated by solar rays make them seem blue"
well it is.
well it is.
Unless you're color-blind, then yes. Otherwise it's grey in the morning, blue during the day, reddish in the evening and black during the night !
SamuraiPizzaCat
21-05-04, 10:03
namiex is right and so are u other guys
my tank on pluto was /67 when i deleted him with no implants in
this is with 6 epics and 94 base con
i got dings without levels while i was doin missions and i got dings while i was out just hunting
Richard Angelus
21-05-04, 11:57
@KK please let this bug in the game :D it's such a nice bug
what is really interresting is the fact that the '6. Stat' (or Mission XP Stat or Bug) seems to 'remember' how much Missions you done and how hard they was......
whatever you do (log off, reinstall NC....), you must do more and more Missions to get a net 'bling' or Skillrang.....so there must be something stored in the Database
*go to TS and test this bug*
/Edit: argh the TS LoMs
/me smashes himself into black-and-white forehead
!!!
Someone said there were 6 stats in beta2 or some other time. A wastleland-survival skill or smth.
So this secret stat could possibly be an old skill which wasn't taken out completly.
Naimex : I don't understand your math.
rank = SumOfStats/5
so:
SumOfStats = rank*5
therefore :
SecretStat = (rank*5)-(INT+STR+DEX+CON+PSI)
take into account errors from rounding. We don't know HOW game rounds this division by 5. example : 11/5 = 2.2 , so game can display 2(round down) or 3(round up)
/
Naimex : I don't understand your math.
rank = SumOfStats/5
so:
SumOfStats = rank*5
therefore :
SecretStat = (rank*5)-(INT+STR+DEX+CON+PSI)
take into account errors from rounding. We don't know HOW game rounds this division by 5. example : 11/5 = 2.2 , so game can display 2(round down) or 3(round up)
o_O
wierd pple confusin yr selves
sum of stats/5 = wat yr rank should be
ReefSmoker
21-05-04, 14:14
Yes i did hear the f*cking bling and not gaining a lvl. But believe me when I say there is NO 6TH STAT.
Does Nidhogg really have to say this in every thread which is being made about this bullshit???
Please elaborate, what makes you so certain that there's no 6th stat ? Are you merely going by the statement of a forum moderator, or do you have an actual insight into the development of Neocron, to a point whereby you can provide factual evidence to the contrary ?
If you can add some weight to your statement, some of us might be tempted to consider what you have to say. Otherwise your effing and blinding does nothing other than to make me want to offer you a spliff.
Here - spark it up and take a deep breath, maybe you'll be a bit more down to earth in your next post ;)
Take care,
Reefie
hmm, Dont Mess find differences between those 2 pictures:
1) sum of stats/5 = wat yr rank should be
2) rank = SumOfStats/5
:D
Ok, I based the math very simple...
SUM of stats = int+str+con+dex+psi
then divided by 5 since there are 5 mainskills
and then I took the actual skill rank and minussed this calculated skill rank and then the formula becomes :
(((int+str+con+dex)/5)-((skill rank-(int+str+con+dex+psi/5)))
that is the formula that works every time for finding the so called "6th stat"
Whether it be positive or negative.
But as I said I think amount of EXP has a saying in it too, and possibly the subskills aswell.
but I dont think that those formulaes are so easy as to spot them, without serious calculations on a lot of different values, and ranks.
trigger hurt
21-05-04, 16:51
KK has repeatedly said in the past on the fourms there is no 6th Stat
have a nice day runners
KK has a bad habit of telling bullshit stories too..
KK has repeatedly said in the past on the fourms there is no 6th Stat
have a nice day runners
Well ok, my spy is capped (INT 100, DEX 100, STR 40, CON 40, PSI 40)
Recently I did a load of missions for FS and SL, and I had 2-3 dings, and my char rank went up from /75 to /76.
So if the dings are not the 6th stat, what is it?
Well ok, my spy is capped (INT 100, DEX 100, STR 40, CON 40, PSI 40)
Recently I did a load of missions for FS and SL, and I had 2-3 dings, and my char rank went up from /75 to /76.
So if this isn't the 6th stat, what is it?
was your exp capped ?
I dont think it was, I think you only had the skills capped, and not the experience capped, and then the experience gave you the ding, and gave you a higher skill rank.
Richard Angelus
21-05-04, 17:00
@naimex
that can't be right.....
your formula only calculate the average number of Missions a Player with a skillrang have done...and there were so many examples that show it have nothing to do with the skillrang.
I done some Missions with one of my new chars. It was the first time he made Missions as a xx/24 Char. The /24 was exacly sum of all mainstats/5. After some Missions I get /25 and later /26 and gained only half the Mainstats i have to gain to get the new skillrang.......and after I done the Missions (and gained some skillrang) the mainstats/5 doesn't work anymore.
for all my Testserver Chars who never made a Mission work the mainstats/5 formula (Skillrang with imps xx/65 and he have 327 mainskill points /5 = 65.4)
/EDit: nm
@naimex
that can't be right.....
your formula only calculate the average number of Missions a Player with a skillrang have done...and there were so many examples that show it have nothing to do with the skillrang.
I done some Missions with one of my new chars. It was the first time he made Missions as a xx/24 Char. The /24 was exacly sum of all mainstats/5. After some Missions I get /25 and later /26 and gained only half the Mainstats i have to gain to get the new skillrang.......and after I done the Missions (and gained some skillrang) the mainstats/5 doesn't work anymore.
for all my Testserver Chars who never made a Mission work the mainstats/5 formula (Skillrang with imps xx/65 and he have 327 mainskill points /5 = 65.4)
I did say, that exp and subskills most likely affected skill rank too.
and my formula is a means of calculating what some people call the 6th stat from.
The formula for what rank you really should be is just mainstats/5
which you also say in this post, that mainskill/5 = 65.4 which means it will be equaled down to 65 which you said ur rank was, which means my formula is actually correct.
Richard Angelus
21-05-04, 17:11
I wish i could do some Missions at the Testserver to show you it's only related to Mission/Epic XP
I wish i could do some Missions at the Testserver to show you it's only related to Mission/Epic XP
..... I donīt see whats stopping you
Richard Angelus
21-05-04, 17:17
Missions are not working.....everytime I want to accept a mission I will be kicked from the server....and LoMs are not working to show you the effect with a new Char (same Char, same mainskills, same xp, no imps.....one gained levels by Missions and one Char gained the levels by LoMs)
Missions are not working.....everytime I want to accept a mission I will be kicked from the server....and LoMs are not working to show you the effect with a new Char (same Char, same mainskills, same xp, no imps.....one gained levels by Missions and one Char gained the levels by LoMs)
didnt know that about missions on test server....
but still the only way to prove this to me, properly, is by getting someone with capped exp in all skills (so there will be no skill lvl ups, and no changes in xp, since all are capped completely) and then only the missions can interfere with skill rank.
That would convince me.
IF the rank went up, even tho there was no more exp to gain in any skill.
I wish i could do some Missions at the Testserver to show you it's only related to Mission/Epic XP
it is. naimex ask maester seymour. we both have done tests on the testserver. it is ONLY related to mission XP. not by the XP you get at all. all his skills were capped, he then has done missions for 800 XP and heard a ding. after the 4th ding his rank went up. all of his skills gained XP BUT this did NOT cause his rank going up.
the 6th stat line is a bug (wait NC has no bugs :p ) that does NOT apply to everyone. it does not matter what class or age or gender your char is! it can happen to anyone.
also naimex the XP list by ericdraven are just the XP points for each skill lvl. they are right.
btw did you keep track of missions XP?
it is. naimex ask maester seymour. we both have done tests on the testserver. it is ONLY related to mission XP. not by the XP you get at all. all his skills were capped, he then has done missions for 800 XP and heard a ding. after the 4th ding his rank went up. all of his skills gained XP BUT this did NOT cause his rank going up.
the 6th stat line is a bug (wait NC has no bugs :p ) that does NOT apply to everyone. it does not matter what class or age or gender your char is! it can happen to anyone.
also naimex the XP list by ericdraven are just the XP points for each skill lvl. they are right.
btw did you keep track of missions XP?
read my last post.
no I have not kept track of mission exp, but wouldnt you agree that more than 100 missions at hard lvl, is enough to get more than 3 lvls in that so called 6th stat ?
read my last post.
no I have not kept track of mission exp, but wouldnt you agree that more than 100 missions at hard lvl, is enough to get more than 3 lvls in that so called 6th stat ?
none of my chars gained a rank when he went from skill cap to XP cap. however when ive done missions/epics i gained a lvl. i.e. when my monk did the biotech epic he gained a rank even tho i was capped psi (capped XP as well) and only gained like a few thousands XP in INT. so in your theory i'd have gained a lvl just because i lvl my INT XP in the caves as well. in fact i get more XP in caves than by doing an epic and still dont gain a rank.
none of my chars gained a rank when he went from skill cap to XP cap. however when ive done missions/epics i gained a lvl. i.e. when my monk did the biotech epic he gained a rank even tho i was capped psi (capped XP as well) and only gained like a few thousands XP in INT. so in your theory i'd have gained a lvl just because i lvl my INT XP in the caves as well. in fact i get more XP in caves than by doing an epic and still dont gain a rank.
if the exp caused it to go from xx.4 to xx.5 then the rank would have gone up by 1.
if the exp caused it to go from xx.4 to xx.5 then the rank would have gone up by 1.
how does XP affect your rank when it should be calculated by SumOf5stats/5 ? O_o
how does XP affect your rank when it should be calculated by SumOf5stats/5 ? O_o
if you listen to official words, to other words. and whatnot..
Iīm beginning to even suspect it to be :
sumof5stats/5 + (the exp after cap run through a formula)
but as I have said, I think subskills, and experience also plays a part in the skill rank.
Useless skills play a part in combat rank, why is it so unlikely that subskills and exp also play a part in skill rank.
I had a setup at some point, which gave my tank a combat rank of 59, then I lommed TC down to 90 base, and then my combat rank went down to 57.
and as a tank tc above 89 is overkill.
which would mean that the uselss skill points affected the combat rank in its context with the other subskills.
I even tried it as a rank test on test server, where i put all points into rank giving subskills, but it didnt work there.
which means its the combination of skills.
and when there is so much hidden under the combat rank..
then why shouldnt i believe that just as many things affect the skill rank.
which is why my eyes are focused on the exp values, subskill setups, and mainstats, where the only thing known is the mainstats formula.
Naimex -
Why do you keep talking about testing above cap? This has been seen and tested at every level of the game. Hundreds (possibly thousands) of tests have been run by many many runners and I can't see how the test you propose is going to add anything. In fact testing above cap is actually a bad idea as you are adding another level of hidden complexity to the situation.
oh and btw - BODMAS ;).
Well whatever it is a GM told me its fixed on the test server and afaik will hit retail next patch.
Naimex -
Why do you keep talking about testing above cap? This has been seen and tested at every level of the game. Hundreds (possibly thousands) of tests have been run by many many runners and I can't see how the test you propose is going to add anything. In fact testing above cap is actually a bad idea as you are adding another level of hidden complexity to the situation.
oh and btw - BODMAS ;).
simply by the fact, that if there are no more exp to gain, and no more lvls to gain, then the only thing that would be able to change the rank would subskills which wont be changed, and exp that wont be gained, and skills that you wont obtain.
Which would conclude that the only way to gain any rise, is through the so called 6th mission/epic stat..
Except (assuming there is a stat):
1) We don't know what it's cap is so you may have capped it
2) We don't know how the cap calc works so it may be a false +ve on another stat
3) A capped char could have accumulated hundreds of bugs and anomalies that can warp the results.
The best way to test is at the bottom, not the top, using a char which is a totaly clean slate and about which we know as much as possible.
@Jest - I hope you are kidding and they aren't wasting time on this while there are so many REAL problems that need fixing. There's a name for that - "arranging deck-chairs on the Titanic".
Except (assuming there is a stat):
1) We don't know what it's cap is so you may have capped it
2) We don't know how the cap calc works so it may be a false +ve on another stat
3) A capped char could have accumulated hundreds of bugs and anomalies that can warp the results.
The best way to test is at the bottom, not the top, using a char which is a totaly clean slate and about which we know as much as possible.
No, because they claim it to be a mission/epic stat.
A totally capped char, that hasnt done a million missions, couldnt possibly have capped it, since it is a mission/epic stat
i know for one my tank only done 1 epic, but moer than 100 missions.
But not even 200 missions could have capped it according to what has been said in this thread.
which would then mean that IF there is anything, then it would be affected by the missions/epics and not by anything else.
Where a new runner, would have his affected, by lvls and exps, and subskills, and whatever changes is happening.
OK lets pretend there is a secret 6th stat. It does nothing so why is it so fantastic?
OK lets pretend there is a secret 6th stat. It does nothing so why is it so fantastic?
it is the question of whether or not missions/epics affect skillrank.
No, because they claim it to be a mission/epic stat.
Who does? The only reason missions matter is because they level ALL stats so would provide known XP to the stat if it exists (unless KK's "fix" is to change that).
But not even 200 missions could have capped it according to what has been said in this thread.
That's an assumption. AFAIK no-one has proposed cap levels for this stat-line. If it caps at 10 on tanks for example then your test is invalid.
Where a new runner, would have his affected, by lvls and exps, and subskills, and whatever changes is happening.o_O That's the whole point.
o_O That's the whole point.
no its not..
thats exactly NOT the point.
The point is to find out whether or not there is a 6th stat.
A char that gets lvl ups during a mission, would have changed his rank because of the lvl, and not from the 6th stat
A char that gets exp duing a mission, might cross the xx.4 -> xx.5 border and gain another skill rank
and if there is a 6th stat, then that stats affection would be lost in between all the other affections
and therefore must the best way to con- or defirm the existense of any such thing as a 6th stat, be to do it on a char that gets NO other affections to the skill rank.
Which in terms is a char that doesnt gain, exp, lvls or crosses borders of xx.4 -> xx.5 be equal to a 100 % capped char.
And therefore my point remains, that a new char, would not prove anything at all.
no its not..
thats exactly NOT the point.
The point is to find out whether or not there is a 6th stat.
A char that gets lvl ups during a mission, would have changed his rank because of the lvl, and not from the 6th stat
No, the point is that he will have gained in ALL stats. As we know the first five this gives means that any un-displayed gains are a 6th stat or something that emulates one (which to us as users is effectively the same thing).
therefore must the best way to con- or defirm the existense of any such thing as a 6th stat, be to do it on a char that gets NO other affections to the skill rank.
Which in terms is a char that doesnt gain, exp, lvls or crosses borders of xx.4 -> xx.5 be equal to a 100 % capped char.
And therefore my point remains, that a new char, would not prove anything at all.
Have you had any scientific education? I'm not trying to be rude but your appraoch to this is very unreliable. You have no control, no clear hypothesis to compare against, you allow multiple variable to apply at once and you start with more factors unknown than known. There is no way you could prove anything with such a test.
No, the point is that he will have gained in ALL stats. As we know the first five this gives means that any un-displayed gains are a 6th stat or something that emulates one (which to us as users is effectively the same thing).
Have you had any scientific education? I'm not trying to be rude but your appraoch to this is very unreliable. You have no control, no clear hypothesis to compare against, you allow multiple variable to apply at once and you start with more factors unknown than known. There is no way you could prove anything with such a test.
my scientific education is limited, Iīll gladly admit that, but I canīt follow you in the area of more factors unknown than known..
itīs not a formula I want proven.
I just want to make it clear.. is there or isnīt there a 6th stat.
my tank is capped in all skills
has capped exp in all but con.
and he is still skill rank 68. done 1 epic, and more than 100 missions.
According to whatever values have been shown so far in the exp lvling thing, then my 6th stat should be above :
lvl 16 = 24.456
which would make my tank :
17+124+113+61+10+16/5 = 68.2 meaning.. 68..
which is scary..
because.. you just proved that itīs there to me...
EDIT :::
Thatīs why it wouldnīt add up before !!
I kept calculating with the supposedly 6th stat as 1 rank per stat
but itīs only 0.2 rank per stat.
thatīs why my skill rank should have been 65, but was 68.
Which I concluded to make my 6th stat at lvl 3
but since it couldnīt be due to my amount of missions, and the xp values per lvl.
so my stat wasnīt 3 it was somewhere around lvl 16.
OK, just to clarify I'll go through my points one by one. If you already understand then skip parts :).
1) No control - a control is a identical system that sits alongside one under test and acts as a comparson to the tested system. It allows you to compensate for outside influences that could taint the experiment. In this case the "control" is KK's explanation - it's a hypothetical model of how the system works. Hypothetical controls are not usually a good idea but in this case we are examining an algorithmic process so it is better than nothing.
2) No clear hypothesis under test - any experiment must have something it aims to prove or disprove. Just "seeing what happens" is bad practice. In this case we are testing "does the NC skill-system act as if it includes a sixth hidden skill". To do that we list the things that skill would do, how they can be seen and tested for and what else they may effect. We then build a test to look for these effects and also any that may contradict the theory.
3) Remove surplus variables - Idealy any experiment should only allow one thing to change during it's run. This is often very difficult but it is critical that as much is done towards this goal as possible. The more things that can change the less reliable any conclusions will be as to which was responsible for the observed results.
4) All parts of the tested system should be known and the system should be as simple as possible - The reasons are as for 3, more complexity = more ways to mis-interpret.
Wrt testing older characters there are hundreds of ways that they could taint a test. Just a few to highlight this (in no particular order of importance):
1) They have levelled up over many patches, some of which may have changed the way parts of the system work
2) They may have LoMmed and we don't know how that affects things
3) They will have crashed more - crashed = bad data which is beyond our control
4) They will have used hundreds of items, weapons, drugs, etc any one of which may have had an unwanted effect
5) KK may have done DB maintenance tasks which could add/remove details or levels of accuracy
6) The number of missions is unknown - trusting people's memory on this is not sound
7) Many, many other variables come into play - no. of mobs killed, no of PKs, no. of deaths, clan memberships, factions joined, SL, build date, etc., etc.
8) Zoning - we all know this does funny things to rank sometimes and that the effects last for random durations
9) Many more levelling-related events have occured
There are plenty more complications a capped character adds but those alone are enough to invalidate any test of this matter that is based on one.
After careful examination I have to agree with there being a 6th stat as well.
Though quite coincidental that in my case two theories could be said to be correct. As in both cases it gave the correct number.
Of course, the character is not entirely reliable considering I've had him since the start of retail... But he was a researching droner for a long time, and recently switched over to a hacking one. Which is how I can make the reasonable guess that my stength experience is roughly equal to the amount of experience gained in the 6th stat.
Maloch Octavia
22-05-04, 00:55
Look at it thus:
Skill Exp =
A*((5.3 / #Mission + Imp & Arm x 2 = )) 5 x #M with 10% to loss.
Total of A * Y (y=6 Stat over 5 / 5 with 2,000 for base)
A + Y + Total of X given the remainder for
apparent loss of Exp levelling, divide that by
the number of stats climbed, so for capped,
then:
(172,000,000 / 5 = A over the X, ) = 50,000 per ding, with
(( 6 + Y / A )) taken to 10% of the Z (Being the six) with 4.
= 42
Other than that, I can only point out, that with Con especially, it seems to hit the next level, then drop a few, hit the next level, then drop a few, then hit, and finally ding. So I calculated that with a Con of 10, I 'gained' another 1,000 points which vanished as soon as they appeared. As in, they were added to the Exp total, then dropped off as I took another burst of exact damage. So if I had an Exp of 10,000, it would go 10,500, then on the next burst, it'd go 10,100... What just happened to the four hundred I had lost?
mmmmMmmmmm....
That's just the client over-estimating and then the server slapping it back into line.
It's the scourge of all tradeskillers.
Maloch Octavia
22-05-04, 01:01
Damn, that was a good conspiracy too. :(
Just a bug with the skill rank folks (actually 2 bugs I believe). It's on the test server now and will be going in on the next retail patch.
Just a bug with the skill rank folks (actually 2 bugs I believe). It's on the test server now and will be going in on the next retail patch.
Will that effect mine (And anyone elses) character rank?
Will that effect mine (And anyone elses) character rank?
Yes it should.
Richard Blade
22-05-04, 01:25
Just a bug with the skill rank folks (actually 2 bugs I believe). It's on the test server now and will be going in on the next retail patch.
But it was a bug with predictable patterns. So, that makes it a feature.
KK can't take it away from us...
What else will we be able to debate about?
Edit: :D
was your exp capped ?
I dont think it was, I think you only had the skills capped, and not the experience capped, and then the experience gave you the ding, and gave you a higher skill rank.
If you mean 172 million XP for INT and DEX, yes it was (Same for STR, CON and PSI).
But I'm not sure what you mean by exp?
Yes it should.
I hope you've issued the flame-proof undies then.
Yes it should.
So I'm about to see my char rank drop from /76 to /70-ish? 8|
ReefSmoker
22-05-04, 01:41
Just a bug with the skill rank folks (actually 2 bugs I believe). It's on the test server now and will be going in on the next retail patch.
Ah well, fun while it lasted... Guess I better relish the rank while I can :)
Yes it should.
thats just bullshit u know y coz it aint exactly bad and theres nothing wrong with having a high rank is there
tbh it gave me summin 2 do in this game, do missions so that i could get a nice rank 2 show pple yes ive leveld my cster and im high level and 2 look sexy. i dont see the point in removing this, yeh make a limit to wat u can get or just make it REALLY hard like normal leveling a jump from exp of 13 mio from 98 to 99 and 14 mio from 99 to 100 so in mission case u gotta do ALOT of very hard missions.
why dont u start fixing real bugs in this game insted of takin something away that we actually enjoy.
also wat u gonna do wen the WOC skills come out? no new base ranks?
u lot need 2 reconsider whats gonna keep pple playing this game
Jesterthegreat
22-05-04, 03:49
KK has repeatedly said in the past on the fourms there is no 6th Stat
have a nice day runners
KK have also repeatedly said DoY will be released on X date.
this isn't a flame... mearly someone pointing out how reliable kk are at giving information out.
i am not saying there is a 6th stat. there is certainly something, because i know i have gained rank and got the level sound from missions. the first few times i (like most people) assumed it was a bug and the mission complete just played a weird sound, but no... my rank increased with it.
kk can deny this as much as they like... but simply saying "you are wrong" will simply make people discuss it further.
KK! compunicate with the comunity! tell us why we get extra rank from missions... please? If you dont know, tell us... we just wanna know your stance (and why... if you know :))
:edit: onoz - odin replied anyways... i stopped reading at the point i quoted to reply... not realising the length of the discussion :p
i wont delete it so if i get replies it will make sense :D
:edit2:
@dont mess
if you play the game to increase your constructers overall rank it may be time to consider a new game o_O
and dont say "consider the people"... I'm pretty sure removing this wont make numerous people quit.
something the community feels strongly about: Para
removing this would make a fair few people quit i suspect.
big decisions have big consiquences. of course i would rather kk spent time on things like drone bugs (3rd person / 1st person still, not launching, etc... all the stuff thats been ingame for years O_o) and adding line of sight to spells (although if this is a total recode... maybe they already have includedit in DoY) etc, but bug fixes are good...
even things like this. normal acceptable ranks. now get the hovers flying in Neocron again plz :)
Richard Adregen
22-05-04, 12:06
big decisions have big consiquences. of course i would rather kk spent time on things like drone bugs (3rd person / 1st person still, not launching, etc... all the stuff thats been ingame for years O_o)
On this count I totally agree... these bugs were in here back when I quit and if they still exist, these are show-stopping bugs for droners! What's wrong with fixing these so the droners can have some more fun and usefulness too?
and adding line of sight to spells (although if this is a total recode... maybe they already have includedit in DoY) etc, but bug fixes are good...
On this one I don't agree. This is not a total recode (they removed the line of sight ages ago) But I still played when it was in and I must say it was a relief to have it fixed... would you want your spells to fizzle because there was a tiny rock in front of a warbot? Or because of a toxic barrel, stopping you from killing something bigger than that barrel? Back then it was just impossible for monks to actually fire off a spell with a remote hope of it not fizzling if there was any form of obstacle at all... Even if it was a tiny piece of stone.
On account of the 6th stat, My findings have been the same as Reef's. His test was pretty conclusive ;) If it's getting fixed, good (though I'm not sure what the problem with it was... as some people said they just used it to get a higher rank if they liked)
Regards,
RA.
@dont mess
if you play the game to increase your constructers overall rank it may be time to consider a new game o_O
and dont say "consider the people"... I'm pretty sure removing this wont make numerous people quit.
lol well mayb yr rite but i danno y it just looks nice so i wanted 2 do it and do all epics, i heard this aswell (i know its bullshit but gonna try anyway) pple say if u have 100 symp with every faction u get good slots, sounds insane 2 me but i was gonna do it anyway EVENTUALLY. UNTILL i started doin missions and getting ranks i dicided 2 do all the epics coz it gave me summin 2 look foward 2 but now hell no.
the para i think that they should make para spells weak well 2 patches ago it was PERFECT BUT holy para halo was 2 strong so they played with it again and fuked it all up again.
kk need 2 start 2 do some serious work before DOY 2 make it work coz in my opinion they have enough buggs 2 deal with now some from a year ago, bringing doy now is just gonna mess KK up hardcore with more bugs and everything.
WHAT im trying 2 say is 4get these little bugs and do summin useful even if its as small as fixing the bloody TH lifts
i think spys with mc5 rd sa hawking SF u can get xxx/80 from what ive seen
Jesterthegreat
22-05-04, 16:35
On this count I totally agree... these bugs were in here back when I quit and if they still exist, these are show-stopping bugs for droners! What's wrong with fixing these so the droners can have some more fun and usefulness too?
yes all these bugs are still ingame... and yes i hate them with a vengence
On this one I don't agree. This is not a total recode (they removed the line of sight ages ago) But I still played when it was in and I must say it was a relief to have it fixed... would you want your spells to fizzle because there was a tiny rock in front of a warbot? Or because of a toxic barrel, stopping you from killing something bigger than that barrel? Back then it was just impossible for monks to actually fire off a spell with a remote hope of it not fizzling if there was any form of obstacle at all... Even if it was a tiny piece of stone.
as i said... if this would need a recode. i dont know :)
however from what you say, all they have to do is adjust the LoS so its dynamic. if you can see their head, they can aim at it and fire (the LoS being from the glove to the head), if they aim at the feet... thats a seperate LoS...
all FPS's have this... you can hit the parts you can see, but not the parts you cant. this is all NC needs!
On account of the 6th stat, My findings have been the same as Reef's. His test was pretty conclusive ;) If it's getting fixed, good (though I'm not sure what the problem with it was... as some people said they just used it to get a higher rank if they liked)
Regards,
RA.
i dont see the massive issue with this rank bug. I'm not too bothered about it... but i hardly think it should take priority over the other bugs in the game.
all FPS's have this... you can hit the parts you can see, but not the parts you cant. this is all NC needs!
Noraml FPSs determine hits in a different way to Neocron.
jeranu how did u get yr /75 mines really /74 but with a glove /75 (wen i cap i will be atleast /75 with no glove)
It may be because that was taken when PA4 could still be worn without drugs.
Then again sometimes my rank is 76 or 77 now with only PA3. That character's rank has always been a bit "special".
/edit - by special I mean it wanders every now and then for no good reason. For a few days before I even capped it was /79 with no drugs and then when I levelled up next it dropped to /75 :wtf: . None of my other characters have ever had this and I've not heard anyone else complain of it so I just ignore it.
/79 lol whow thats sick, and only 1 mc5, have u done any missions in bulk or epics
I've done all available epics and used missions to change faction each time. I've had him since day one of UK retail too so he did his early levelling on Yellow Spider Missions and did a fair number of aggie missions for cash.
thats exactly what im gonna do change faction purly off missions
Naimex's replies on this thread make my head hurt.
They make absolutely no sense, are worded horribly and they all seem angry!!! at people thinking there is a sixth skill.
Reefie's replies were loooovvveeellllyyyy though.
The 6th skill may be a bug, but it exists, is verifiable, and well documented.
Good night
Naimex's replies on this thread make my head hurt.
They make absolutely no sense, are worded horribly and they all seem angry!!! at people thinking there is a sixth skill.
Reefie's replies were loooovvveeellllyyyy though.
The 6th skill may be a bug, but it exists, is verifiable, and well documented.
Good night
Sleep tight..
none of my posts were angry.. they were defensive.
but itīs all been fixed now, just a wrong factor in my calculations.
ok who thinks they should keep it as high ranks
I DO
if no post y coz i really dont see anything wring with it
Jesterthegreat
23-05-04, 01:53
ok who thinks they should keep it as high ranks
I DO
if no post y coz i really dont see anything wring with it
i think it doesnt make the slightest difference to my game experiance.
i think KK should never have used their time which could have been spent fixing gameplay bugs.
and if this is going to take more Dev time to fix i say hell no. leave it alone. fix bugs / add content / introduce the storyline more into the game.
I don't really mind though I think a lot of people will be pretty annoyed about it. Just look at how many people get their wotsits in a knot about Tank's combat ranks.
I'm more concerned that KK spent time on this instead of the thousands of things that really do need fixing.
I don't really mind though I think a lot of people will be pretty annoyed about it. Just look at how many people get their wotsits in a knot about Tank's combat ranks.
I'm more concerned that KK spent time on this instead of the thousands of things that really do need fixing.
yep but still i clearly dont see wats wrong with having a good base rank i mean not many pple get that high only a few pple and they are tradeskillers
but official responce on this then
What about WOC is released then wat will we be able 2 get ranks?
yep but still i clearly dont see wats wrong with having a good base rank i mean not many pple get that high only a few pple and they are tradeskillers
I agree. How can thre be any harm in letting people level it up. It does nothing so there's no balance issues, it's just for fun and bragging rights.
I agree. How can thre be any harm in letting people level it up. It does nothing so there's no balance issues, it's just for fun and bragging rights.
EXACTLY
i mean it sounds sad but it REALLY gives me summin else 2 do and gave me a reason 2 cap my cster (which i still gotta do) and its not just me ive seen lotsa tanks do all the epics so that they can get those extra base ranks. we all know it means nothing but its just a bit of harmless fun. i agree if u wanna change anything make it harder 2 get the base ranks but dont stop us getting them.
i recon in the time the fixed this SO CALLED bug they coulda done summin useful and fixed the bloody TH lifts
ReefSmoker
23-05-04, 06:12
It's not really a big deal whether this 'feature' stays or goes, on the one hand there are players who like a level playing field, then there are others who like ways to make their toon unique.
What I'd really love to know, is what exactly was causing it. Tbh hearing that it's just the result of a bug or two was a bit of an anticlimax... I'd love to know what was going on behind the scenes to cause such a mystery :)
Take care,
Reefie
then there are others who like ways to make their toon unique.
thats me
Though it made little difference in the game, having a high skill rank gave you a reward for hard work. Ontop of that, it makes your character unique compared to all the clones out there. You're not just another capped Tank with the best equipment/setup. For me though, the reason that would motivate me most is the same as why I like monk's int being so slow. It gives me something incomplete that I can always work on. I've come close to capping Int many times, but I always lom it back down. I would die of boredom as another class, which caps all it's stats. When I've had my fill of pvp or whatever else I'm doing, there's always grabbing a friend and going hunting for a while. I can always gain Int exp, so it's worthwhile. The same is true with this 6th stat, even after capping we still have something to work towards.
"Fixing it" won't be recieved very well. Especialy when people are so bored already.
PS. The existance of a 6th stat or somthing similar was pretty obvious to me ever since Pittspawn did the testing on his ppu, Polarity. I had much higher Int then Polarity and we were both capped (fully exp capped even) in every other stat. I have done no epics and never had the patience to do enough missions for it to really make a difference. Whereas Polarity has done many epics and tons of missions. Polarity's skill rank was way higher then mine, even though just going by the 5 main stats, I should be higher.
There was a theory that it had to do with loming, that your skill rank is not accurately reduced when you lom. So regaining the levels will have you end up with a higher skill rank then before you lomed. But my experience disproved that completely, I've lomed as much as others have done missions. But my skill rank never went up much.
Just a bug with the skill rank folks (actually 2 bugs I believe). It's on the test server now and will be going in on the next retail patch.
Thanks for finally clearing this up
I'm assuming you mean the fix is on the test server and not the bug? :p
Agent FunHead
24-05-04, 13:36
soz for being off topic
Rents log on msn
I seem to be gettin a lot of vibes that this bug is about the only one we've ever liked as a community. I was wondering, as long as it does no harm, how many of you want to keep it in!
To me it is harmless and it show other runners you've bothered your arse to complete all epics or even the hard work you put in levelling up via missions.
Gives some people something to do also.
Doing missions for your faction is RP after all :)
Pls Vote and Rate as you see fit.
Was meant to be a poll :( If a mod could add a yes/no/maybe/abstain poll i would be obliged
It's highly likely that these bugs came to light during BDOY development. It's not a question of fixing them to spite people with high ranks, it's a question of fixing them as a prerequisite for BDOY. After all, how much of a mess would WOC skills be if they were implemented on top of a buggy foundation?
N
I didnt think it was been gotten rid of
It's been removed on test Inferno.
Anyway, I think Nid made a reasonably valid point about it in that thread about it.
my bad forgot
But anyway it dont matter ,cos hey it doesnt make ther game any better or worse ,like we want new features Not
old ones to be kept in
im just glad i wasnt one of those people spending all there time running endless missions
mocks on you :lol:
funnily enough, this is the one "feature" that bugs me the most. i hate the dang thing, but i have my reasons which duty calls me to relate.
rank is there to tell you the relative "quality" of the character (as distinct from player) you are looking at. quality as in stats, stats as in capped, near capped or nowhere near capped. the feature you refer to muddies this water, so that it's impossible to tell what you're looking at.
i really don't care if somone has done 1 or 500 epics. yes, it is to laugh when i see someone who's apparantly spent vast amounts of time on epics and missions, but it is not instructional. the "master" is enough, frankly, to determine, should i want to, if the char has done an epic in their current faction.
rank should show the average of your 6 stats, period. that way i can tell if you are a noob, someone possibly capped but wearing an FH2, someone capped and wearing an MC5, etc.
sorry, but it needs to be fixed, not perpetuated.
It's highly likely that these bugs came to light during BDOY development. It's not a question of fixing them to spite people with high ranks, it's a question of fixing them as a prerequisite for BDOY. After all, how much of a mess would WOC skills be if they were implemented on top of a buggy foundation?
N
W0rd.
Richard Blade
24-05-04, 15:26
It's highly likely that these bugs came to light during BDOY development. It's not a question of fixing them to spite people with high ranks, it's a question of fixing them as a prerequisite for BDOY. After all, how much of a mess would WOC skills be if they were implemented on top of a buggy foundation?
N
:D That just means that we'd have a 6th WOC skill to level without knowing it.
But, I'd rather have it fixed than have a vanity boost.
Bring on B: DoY <cheers & applause>
I would say about 1year + ago that a few people did a bit of digging about in the skills with capped chars and found some truths, some theory was thrown in and the "6th skill line" was born, in theory of course, but it was never argued by KK that it wasn't there.
It was further found that you only heard the mystery "dings" when doing xp gains from missions/epics as those give xp across the board on all skills at the same time, what lead to the "6th skill" being thought about was a few of us peeps "Anima, Polarity, Centuri, Aahz" already had capped chars when we started the epics for the city, we found that you should not get a "ding" when already capped, so it suggested another hidden skill, the best way to describe it was to call it "6th skill, or 6th stat" as there was 5 normal skills present.
The skill it would appear goes up like the others, if you can do the math and calculate the xp gain at each given lvl on a normal skill, then you can work out roughly what it would take to get to rank /127, good luck to you on doing that though lol
Now it was no surprise to hear about the WoC skill with DoY, and hence why Nid here says its being fixed coz you don't want a buggy foundation to work with.
Theory i think you could say has been proven, it was there all along, it was going to be used for something in DoY like what we guessed at, and indeed it is there for WoC or at the very least the foundation for WoC.
Voila!
nid will our current ranks be dropped then
nid will our current ranks be dropped then
it will, itīs already on the test server, look at test server patch 203.
Festus Walez
24-05-04, 22:29
I don't like this change! :mad:
please keep this "feature" ingame. many people worked very hard for their ranks - like me
btw does anybody has a higher rank than 80 without drugs ?
have a look :) (http://neocron.jafc.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=936)
fuck me very nice
i guess the ranks will be bak with WOC
Festus Walez
24-05-04, 23:46
fuck me very nice
i guess the ranks will be bak with WOC
i really really hope so
or better - they don't change it now :D
i really really hope so
or better - they don't change it now :D
o sorry dude i dont think u'll get yr 80 rank bak tho lol
this is coz WOC skills are gonna be a bitch 2 level itc gonna be like 18mio then level after is 20 then 22
o sorry dude i dont think u'll get yr 80 rank bak tho lol
this is coz WOC skills are gonna be a bitch 2 level itc gonna be like 18mio then level after is 20 then 22
Where did they say that?
i read somewere that its just gonne be like leveling the millions of exp
it will take fukin AGES to get bak up to /80
mayb it will be possible just ALOT of hard work
well im not entirly sure how WOC is gonna work so i take my comment back
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.