View Full Version : A possible replacement for Holy Paralysis…
I don’t know if this has been suggested before but…
Since PPUs are intended to be defensive characters, it follows that Holy Paralysis was intended to be a defensive spell; for example, a PPU could slow any enemies chasing him to facilitate his escape. However, we all know that it is being used as an offensive aid. If you are a tank fighting another tank—each supported by a PPU—and the enemy tank’s PPU is keeping you shocked more than your PPU is keeping him shocked, you chances are not good. We all know this.
What if HP were replaced by a new spell—with the same mana cost, range, and cast rate as HP—which made the PPU untargetable (and immune to AoE damage ) by the person under its influence for the duration of the spell.
Let’s say that you are a PPU supporting your tank fighting another tank and his PPU. The enemy tank is concentrating on attacking your tank. You cannot interfere in the fight the way HP currently allows you to do. Let’s say your tank is killed. The enemy tank now turns his attention on you and you want to make an escape. You cast this new spell on the tank and he cannot target you for the next 20 seconds (or however long HP currently lasts). It seems like this would be a truly defensive spell that only affects people attacking you but does not affect their ability to attack others in any way.
Dribble Joy
18-05-04, 00:21
Fights are long enough as it is.
Shadow Dancer
18-05-04, 00:26
A spell like that would be way too powerful. The rof and mana cost isn't slow/high enough to jusitfy it. Sheer immunity(or 99%) for 20 seconds?
PPUs have enough defense as it is.
I think making holy para an aura that shocks anyone who strikes the ppu, is much more defensive and balanced.
I think making holy para an aura that shocks anyone who strikes the ppu, is much more defensive and balanced.
hell yes finally i read a sensible replacement :) nice one
Don't remove Holy Para... Un Nerf it and up it's requirements so the PPU is the one who needs to take drugs to use it.
PPUs have enough defense as it is.I was not suggesting that PPU defenses were not good enough. However, assume for a moment that you do NOT want to simply DELETE HP but rather REPLACE it with something that is more appropriate to the PPU's defensive role. What would you replace it with? It has to be something that does not interfere with a player's ability to fight others, i.e. it cannot have any offensive use whatsoever. It can only be used to enhance personal defense or facilitate escape. This is not about whether HP should be deleted but what it could be replaced with.
I think making holy para an aura that shocks anyone who strikes the ppu, is much more defensive and balanced.I don't like this idea because you would still end up parashocking others and thus interfering with their ability to fight not just you but everyone.
Another idea…a spell that increases the PPU’s run speed. It would only be self-castable. It is essentially the reverse of HP but only effects the PPU and does not interfere with the combat ability of anyone else. The lower level ones would be fun for noobs leveling up, increasing speed by maybe 10-15% while the rare version doubles run speed.
Ozambabbaz
18-05-04, 01:55
i think it's gonna be very hard to work around the Para issue, without comming close to destroying the PPU as a "passive" support char.
They have no other role, really, if they didn't have anything "offensively disabling" or "offensively crippling" as the Paras and DBs, they could then only Buff, Heal and keep themselves alive so they could Rezz the remains. They have to interesting and viable.
In an MMO, it goes without saying that every kind of char has a role in the TeamPlay that MMOs evolve around (no, let's not make this a PE thread *sigh*).
So basicly, what i'm trying to say, if there's to be a major change to the Para, PPUs need another option of some sort, in assisting her teammates.
Dribble Joy
18-05-04, 02:00
i think it's gonna be very hard to work around the Para issue, without comming close to destroying the PPU as a "passive" support char.
They have no other role, really, if they didn't have anything "offensively disabling" or "offensively crippling" as the Paras and DBs, they could then only Buff, Heal and keep themselves alive so they could Rezz the remains. They have to interesting and viable.
PPUs are far too important and influential on team fighting as it is.
Para was (afaik) introduced at the start of retail, noone wanted it, just for the love of god (skilled PvP) remove it.
Healing and rezzing is a HUGE benefit to a team and a PPU could do a better job if he had fewer tasks to deal with.
Ozambabbaz
18-05-04, 02:11
PPUs are far too important and influential on team fighting as it is.
Para was (afaik) introduced at the start of retail, noone wanted it, just for the love of god (skilled PvP) remove it.
Healing and rezzing is a HUGE benefit to a team and a PPU could do a better job if he had fewer tasks to deal with.
i agree to the _fullest_, trying to look at it from a perspective, i recognize KKs attempts to keep the PPUs in the game and very much participating in PvP and PvM, and as such i don't see them getting "crippled", regardless of what feelings i might have for them and whatnot has happened to other classes.
Giving PPUs something fancy, like mayhaps a "Crahnonic Proton Flux Wave Sanctum", that'd cost 350, RoF of 3/min which disables any tech devices would surely lessen the impact of a dramatic Para effect reduction, no?
Shadow Dancer
18-05-04, 02:14
i think it's gonna be very hard to work around the Para issue, without comming close to destroying the PPU as a "passive" support char.
They have no other role, really, if they didn't have anything "offensively disabling" or "offensively crippling" as the Paras and DBs, they could then only Buff, Heal and keep themselves alive so they could Rezz the remains. They have to interesting and viable.
Only buff and heal? And other people can only attack.
So what?
Are you saying para is the ppu's biggest and most important role? Without it somehow they would be uninteresting and not viable?
:wtf:
However, assume for a moment that you do NOT want to simply DELETE HP but rather REPLACE it with something that is more appropriate to the PPU's defensive role.
I know, that's why I offered a solution.
I was not suggesting that PPU defenses were not good enough.
I didn't say that you thought they weren't good enough. I'm just pointing out that immunity for 20 seconds is not needed(or deserved) when they already have such obscene defense.
This is not about whether HP should be deleted but what it could be replaced with.
I didn't mention anything about deleting it.
I don't like this idea because you would still end up parashocking others and thus interfering with their ability to fight not just you but everyone.
Only if they attack the ppu.
Another idea…a spell that increases the PPU’s run speed. It would only be self-castable. It is essentially the reverse of HP but only effects the PPU and does not interfere with the combat ability of anyone else. The lower level ones would be fun for noobs leveling up, increasing speed by maybe 10-15% while the rare version doubles run speed.
I like this idea. But the problem is, i'm not sure if i'm in favor of replacing para with something defensive either. I mean, ppus have already godlike defense. Sometimes too much I think. I don't think they deserve ANOTHER defensive spell.
Why not give them something cool/fun that is not defensive OR offensive?
Like a teleport spell? Why can't they use psi energy to mimic the GR process?
Ozambabbaz
18-05-04, 02:25
no, Arc, this is called, opting for a debate.
Usually, over-dramatizing, making unvalid accusations or stating something odd bluntly is the best way to start a debate... which is sad, no?
Back on topic, no but making them only heal/buff/rezz would make for a very boring classs, and as this is an MMO, we need diversity, as such we need different classes.
Side note, is it the name? does it lack a Z or something? :D
Why not give them something cool/fun that is not defensive OR offensive? Like a teleport spell? Why can't they use psi energy to mimic the GR process?How would a teleport skill work? And isn't being able to teleport away from danger a defensive skill? :)
The more I think of it, the more I like my 2nd idea better than my original suggestion. The reverse of para...a speed boost. Only self-castable, it would really only have an escape danger value and it would not interfere with anyone else's PvP experience.
I´d say the Immunity spell is WAY too powerfull even in theory...
A displacer would be good for PPUs (and spies too).
As a displacer spell and a displacer tool..
Each lvl with it´s own range of displacement..
(spells being 50 and 100 m or something just random numbers)
(tools being 50, 100 and 150 m with a possible rare 200 m but still just random numbers)
I think making holy para an aura that shocks anyone who strikes the ppu, is much more defensive and balanced.
NERF PPU'S! They keep buffing up in the middle of an OP war, and running into the line of fire shocking everyone!! FFS, Who's idea was that stupid spell anyhow?
/me can see the sig's already :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
NERF PPU'S! They keep buffing up in the middle of an OP war, and running into the line of fire shocking everyone!! FFS, Who's idea was that stupid spell anyhow?
/me can see the sig's already :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It has merit and I can think of few ways it could be worse then what we have now. Face it the Parashock defense shield that is self cast only is much better then holy para.
A spell like that would be way too powerful. The rof and mana cost isn't slow/high enough to jusitfy it. Sheer immunity(or 99%) for 20 seconds?
PPUs have enough defense as it is.
I think making holy para an aura that shocks anyone who strikes the ppu, is much more defensive and balanced.
holy shit, nice suggestion shadow
Another idea…a spell that increases the PPU’s run speed. It would only be self-castable. It is essentially the reverse of HP but only effects the PPU and does not interfere with the combat ability of anyone else. The lower level ones would be fun for noobs leveling up, increasing speed by maybe 10-15% while the rare version doubles run speed.
I like this idea, but you would need to make this spell so that he is unable to use any other spells. The last thing we need is a ppu with uber runspeeds running around and casting heal and sheltering people while being even harder to run after and hit. It would have to work like stealth, disabling all of the quickbelt.
I think making holy para an aura that shocks anyone who strikes the ppu, is much more defensive and balanced.
Sounds lovely, but i don't see it going 'live'. As said before, get ready for some new sigs. ;)
Another idea…a spell that increases the PPU’s run speed. It would only be self-castable. It is essentially the reverse of HP but only effects the PPU and does not interfere with the combat ability of anyone else. The lower level ones would be fun for noobs leveling up, increasing speed by maybe 10-15% while the rare version doubles run speed.
Yeah, a Speedy Gonzales spell :D
But then again, i think its hard to come up with a replacement for para.
I like this idea, but you would need to make this spell so that he is unable to use any other spells. The last thing we need is a ppu with uber runspeeds running around and casting heal and sheltering people while being even harder to run after and hit. It would have to work like stealth, disabling all of the quickbelt.Hmm. I don't think that's necessary. It would not be a 10 minute buff; it would last only 20 seconds or so like the current HP. Considering it takes up half your psi pool I seriously doubt many PPUs would bother to keep this buff up on themselves. Even if they did, there are already plenty of PEs and tanks with high run speed. I would be very willing to accept the fact that more PPUs will be zipping away from danger in exchange for never again being para-glued. 8|
Shadow Dancer
18-05-04, 08:50
How would a teleport skill work? And isn't being able to teleport away from danger a defensive skill? :)
Who said teleporting in the middle of battle? :D
I meant teleporting to any spot on any sector without SI, it would take massive mana and very slow rof.
However I like your running idea as well. But I think it should drain mana at a fast rate, so they just can't cast it and use it during pvp to be invincible.
Oh and Lexxuk, I rarely hit other people by accident unless it's pepper park, super packed, and crowded. The idea I was referring to wouldn't be overpowered, unless you're fighting a bunch of idiots who can't aim.
Does this spell stop the ppu from healing and shelt/defl his friends as well as making himself untargetable?
Original monk
18-05-04, 09:59
I think making holy para an aura that shocks anyone who strikes the ppu, is much more defensive and balanced.
this is the first sensible & viable solution i ever seen about para on this forum ... now this is a decent idea and much better then all the OMG remove para, remove PPU's, make HP cost 850 mana to cast etc ...
everyone that attacks the ppu gets a good old unnerfed parashock :D
altough this isnt gonna help against the whining about the godlike status of a ppu, with other words: this sanctum aint going to make the ppu easier to kill ... not to say that i would use it anyways cause no-one would be so stupid to attack a ppu then ...
so what stays left is the few apu's that antibuff the ppu ...and they can get shocked anyway ... if they do there job right then the ppu is dead before he can do anything else and the apu can crawl to safety :)
if not then ffcourse the apu is fucked when the ppu's mates arrive :)
aint bad at all no, but KK like para as how it is it seems, so i wouldnt expect any changes ... maybe instead of replacing para they can add this as an extra spell :P hehe
heres what you replace holy para with * waves his empty hand* yup thats right, replace it with nothing
Shadow runner's idea is quite nice. I like it and i'm PPU, that is the smartest and best replacement i've read so far :p
Other idea is to replace it with a new spell, a debugged soul cluster 120/120 ! that can be controlled with console commands to tell him who to target, who to defend, and that once in a while (random shit here) throws a para to the target. THIS is PASSIVE attack. :D
Because if you do remove para completly, half the rare pool of the PPU becomes useless : Holy para, holy catharsis sanctum, catharsis , holy catharsis (both 2 last are already useless) even the non rare antiparalyse, holy antiparalyse :( a bit sad.
You can't simply remove a spell from the game and dont give the class something else :confused: . I want antibuff removed, cause when I got hit , i can get killed. It ruins PPU's fun blah blah ... There is issues with para, but remove it completly is not the answer.
You can't para spammed anymore like it used to be, there seems to get some balance now. Sure if you want to pwm an apu and a ppu with your tank solo, you can't. Face it, you dont suck: 2 > 1 and specially when one of the two is a healing class, you dont suck, you are just dumb in that case :D
heres what you replace holy para with * waves his empty hand* yup thats right, replace it with nothing
Yes, lets remove ur CS and replace it with nothing too...
Yes, lets remove ur CS and replace it with nothing too...
ok, i got me rav
and a CS dont make Pvp boring like para does, i know why not let ppus have para, and make all the shock weapons work like they used to so we can have turret fights again :rolleyes:
Ez...
Sorry to piss on your proverbial... but CSes are fucking boring.
Everytank until recent changes had one and used one for PvP. That is boring.
v[ortice']Ez...
Sorry to piss on your proverbial... but CSes are fucking boring.
Everytank until recent changes had one and used one for PvP. That is boring.
you might find the usage of the weapon boring, but the fights with the weapon are not, unlike mr i love my para ppu
Original monk
18-05-04, 13:33
you might find the usage of the weapon boring, but the fights with the weapon are not, unlike mr i love my para ppu
i bet youre not complaining like you are now when that same mr i love para ppu yust froze and DB youre enemy and rezzes you after you got ASS-SPANKED ...
Well, i think parashock does kinda suck, especialy with the ppu's that enjoy parashocking people at pp1.
The spell is way too powerful, and ok you can take drugs, which cost you an amr and a leg for a bit of fun in pp1.
I've seen people go in, say in local, "if i get one parashock the fun is over".
Hell, i'm gonna do that too, get one parashock and go somewhere else for fun.
See how many elite pkers are left at pp1 then. They'll have to turn on each other to have some action.
i bet youre not complaining like you are now when that same mr i love para ppu yust froze and DB youre enemy and rezzes you after you got ASS-SPANKED ...
i never get a ass spanking, and my own ppus have often said to me in advance before heading out pking that they wont use para
Noticed not a lot of shocking is done at op wars now, or maybe better: it was a lot worse.
im not using it either, but what's left then ... :(
i want a swirly ;)
Noticed not a lot of shocking is done at op wars now, or maybe better: it was a lot worse.
im not using it either, but what's left then ... :(
i want a swirly ;)
carry your anti stealth thingy or your cath sanc then you can have a swirly ;)
Original monk
18-05-04, 14:47
i never get a ass spanking, and my own ppus have often said to me in advance before heading out pking that they wont use para
...
i cant comment on this cause i have my doubts on youre entire response but this wouldnt be constructive nor would it lead to anything :)
so i better shut up and crawl back in my little dark hole until sumthing intresting pops up later on :P
ciao :)
Oh and Lexxuk, I rarely hit other people by accident unless it's pepper park, super packed, and crowded. The idea I was referring to wouldn't be overpowered, unless you're fighting a bunch of idiots who can't aim.
Aim has nothing to do with it, team A of 15 people, vs team B of 15 people, 5 aoe weaponry, cursed souls etc.. all blasting in all directions, PPU fully buffed with heals running, could quite easily run into the middle of the battle, taking the hits on purpose by getting directly in the line of fire, causing people to be inadvertently shocked, its too easily exploitable, and a very bad idea.
Shadow Dancer
18-05-04, 17:46
They removed stealth from pes, but can't remove para from ppus.
8|
Ozambabbaz
18-05-04, 17:48
They removed stealth from pes, but can't remove para from ppus.
8|
2 wrongs don't make a right
They removed stealth from pes, but can't remove para from ppus.
8|ya cos some pussy ppus feel they really really need it :rolleyes:
Shadow Dancer
18-05-04, 17:48
2 wrongs don't make a right
Who said their wrong? :D
PPU's don't need 20 second invulnerability. Shock's defensive strength is in keeping people away from the ppu. A spell to make the ppu untargetable does nothing to keep people away, it just prolongs the chase.
Shocking anyone who attacks the ppu is a good way to go, it's soly defensive. If you leave the ppu alone, you wouldn't be shocked. To be balanced it should be a high tl rare, like holy cath sanctum.
Ozambabbaz
18-05-04, 18:13
ya cos some pussy ppus feel they really really need it :rolleyes:
whats with all the pussy comments? your not getting any?
Who said their wrong?
One could compare the method to giving MC weapons "Tank only" reqs.
Or Psi Armor "PPU req: 100", since APUs are aggressive they don't need armor
Shadow Dancer
18-05-04, 18:44
One could compare the method to giving MC weapons "Tank only" reqs.
Or Psi Armor "PPU req: 100", since APUs are aggressive they don't need armor
Except there's no balance issue atm with mc weapons or psi armor.
And apus are aggressive PSI users. That has nothing to do with armor. o_O
Ozambabbaz
18-05-04, 18:51
Except there's no balance issue atm with mc weapons or psi armor.
And apus are aggressive PSI users. That has nothing to do with armor. o_O
i'll match that argument!
*pulls down pants and moons the monitor*
Shadow Dancer
18-05-04, 18:53
*recieves 500 damage*
Ozambabbaz
18-05-04, 18:57
*recieves 500 damage*
:lol:
but sincerely, Stealth 1 wasn't overpowered in the hands of a PE, not more than a spoon against a snail. If people would combat it properly, it wouldn't have been a problem.
My main point is, setting in a " X Class only " req is a defficient way to make balance when one of the classes is an average joe, a JoaT if you want.
It's effectively annihilating a class.
Back on teh Para then, please :)
Shadow Dancer
18-05-04, 18:59
One quick comment. I actually don't think it was ok to remove stealth either. While I don't think it destroyed the class, I do think it went too far. A simple fix to the "stealth before I die in a fight *I* started" would have sufficed.
I got a replacement for holy para, its called letting ppu's runcast spells.
whats with all the pussy comments? your not getting any?
One could compare the method to giving MC weapons "Tank only" reqs.
Or Psi Armor "PPU req: 100", since APUs are aggressive they don't need armor
how about shut the fuck up you prick, that better?
Ozambabbaz
19-05-04, 15:54
how about shut the fuck up you prick, that better?
what i'm trying to get at, however witty and cunning comments you brilliantly execute about pussies or stealthers, it'll only lower the forum standards on how to discuss issues at hand, so why not keep your own fantasies to yourself?
Clownst0pper
19-05-04, 16:00
The main argument for holy paralysis is to allow the PPU to escape people chasing him, so, if this is the case.
Remove Holy Parashock, and replace it with Holy Speed.
A spell usable once every 3 minutes, doubles the run speed of the PPU, so they can quickly get away from any would be attacks.
The spell when used will last for 25 seconds.
Its in DAoC and works amazing for the healer, far better than crippling any chars combat abilityes
what i'm trying to get at, however witty and cunning comments you brilliantly execute about pussies or stealthers, it'll only lower the forum standards on how to discuss issues at hand, so why not keep your own fantasies to yourself?
how about you keep your opinions on how i write stuff to yourself
Original monk
19-05-04, 16:34
how about you keep your opinions on how i write stuff to yourself
still ya gotta confess that the "pussy comment" from Ozambabbaz was pretty touché :P
+ the comment he made on SD is priceless :P
*pulls down pants and moons the monitor* LOL
where does he gets all that stuff :)
he pulls it out his ass :rolleyes:
Well I was thinking about the same idea that shadow said but instead of OOOOH MY MULTI ORG SPAMMER IN OP!!!!!!! signs nerf it :rolleyes:
1: Selfcast only
2: A passive buff "until you are hit" 1 - 2 min
3: When hit your "buff" going down and fast lets say 3 - 6 s
Now its just a selfe buff mine that gonna pwn you if you hit the PPU in that time and if you do the secound hit you are purley dumb =)
Mana and casttime like the the catharis or something with 200 - 250 mana drain. Then they can only cast it before the hit and nothing all PPUs will start on doing midfight...
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