Boost PPU's heal, a new way to nerf PPU's [idea; Heal reballenceing]

[Q`alooaith]

Currently PPU's heal's tick health on over time, they do it a small ammount every tick for 15 seconds, well holy heal's not such a little ammoutn but anyway..

I suggest a change, rather than have heal's restore health over time, have them restore health all in one go... So first level heal restores 10% of the target's hitpoint's, blessed restores 25% of the target's hitpoint's and holy restore's 40% of the target's hitpoint's..

Now..

Increase the cast time of heal's to compesate, it'd only have to be a little, but it'd have to be ballenced properly, which might take a little time to find the happy middle..




Or, maybe just have it do the heal upfront, as it it ticks the heal on over two second's, with heal doing two 5% heal tick's, blessed doing two 18% tick's, and holy doing two 20% ticks..

Well, it break's a PPU's ablity to heal and ignore for a bit, while not killing the heal off totaly..

[DonnyJepp]

B A L A N C E



someone had to say it

[enigma_b17]

that would actually be a horrible thing, and omg stop it with the nerf ppu threads for gods sake

[Q`alooaith]

that would actually be a horrible thing, and omg stop it with the nerf ppu threads for gods sake

"oh god no, I'd have to somthing other than heal to survive a fight, I'd have to shealter and buff and try and keep my team alive... on no can't have anything that threaten's my PPU's power's, I don't want a ballenced class, I want my char to be godlike"



It's a quick change, it'd just mean you have to heal people when they still have some Health left, and you have to know what your doing..

Group heal's would become more vital, as you can't holy heal everyone fast enough..

Heal santum would have to be reduced in effectivness though for it to work, else people would just use that... maybe half the time on heal santurms..

[DonnyJepp]

... it'd just mean you have to heal people when they still have some Health left, and you have to know what you're doing..




It's already quite like that.

[yavimaya]

Get over your idea of long cast times, and insta-heal!
How many times do you want to post it?

Insta heal is the worst thing ever, especially on a server side game like this....
One second you are shooting a PPU, You get them to 2 life, looks they are just about to die... (while they are casting heal)
"you would have just killed them" by the gunners standard.... but because of the delays, suddenly he is back up to 40% life.... god knows how long it will then take the server to tell you... after all, you think they should be dead, probably 10 times over...

Another scenario, As a PPU, with long casting times, and the "movement distance" KK have with casting... it would force all PPU's to run in tiny, tiny circles (probably end up being not worth it), or stand there to heal, not moving, just getting hit... hoping it will finish in time, so you can get 40% back, just to start doing it all over again, as soon as the last one has finished...

[yavimaya]

It's a quick change, it'd just mean you have to heal people when they still have some Health left, and you have to know what your doing..


Well actually its quite the opposite, right now you can/ do cast heals on ppl that are on full life, or close to it... under your system it wouldnt be worth healing anyone that isnt on low life..... AND away from danger.

[Q`alooaith]

I didn't say it'd have to be a hugly long cast time..


Two or three second's would be all you'd need..


The point is, it don't have to be instant heal..

But it does have to be reduced time..


Also, you get info from the server, the server get's info from player, if the player dies server side he's dead.

[yavimaya]

mkay, i went more off the other time you listed this "heal" idea, i didt read above really, if you toned it down, good.

Buuut i was also talking more about, if you have a PPU on 10hp, and pump another 5 rounds into them, just to see that the server "applied the heal before your bullets" so they would be back on high life, and you thought you definetaly had them dead.
Atleast the way it is, the heal and bullets fight eachother! whom ever is more powerful/ fastest wins.... and that decides whether they live or die, not "whether or not they can heal in time".

/edit *just read your post, THATS EXACTLY THE SAME AS YOU POSTED IN ANOTHER TREAD! YOU DIDNT TONE IT DOWN OR MAKE IT BETTER AT ALL. EXACTLY THE SAME!!

[Shadow Dancer]

I like the idea.




Alot.

[Drake6k]

You can kill PPUs now because they heal over time. With heals doing 40% each time I think a ppu could live forever. He might not be able to do much else but you coudn't kill him. Unless the cast time was horrid... It's perfect as it is IMHO. Also PEs having 10% heal would completely suck.

[Q`alooaith]

drake, that's 10% of the target's max HP, 25% with a blessed heal and so on..

cast time's would be reduced from what they are now to somthing slower, so PPU's casting over and over and over would not be invicible..

I mean look at the damage you do to a PPU next time you shoot one, ask the PPU not to heal, and stop before you kill him... how long did it take you to reduce the PPU's health?

Not a long time..

A PPU with no shield's up is ripped to shred's very quickly without a heal running..

[SorkZmok]

I want heal at least halfed if cast on someone else. Holy heal and even blessed heal is so fucking way fucking too strong, its not even funny. PPUs can keep that heal, just nerf it when cast on someone else.

Worst thing you can imagine is when you shoot someone, then he steps aside, you miss, his PPU bitch heals him and not even 1 second later he is BACK AT FULL HEALTH. :(

[Benjie]

B A L A N C E



someone had to say it
People who point out spelling mistakes on forums are the forum equivalent of people who correct you as you speak. It's very anti-social.

[Q`alooaith]

People who point out spelling mistakes on forums are the forum equivalent of people who correct you as you speak. It's very anti-social.

I just ignore em now... they can complain about my spelling all day...


But not when I'm trying to get an idea over..

he don't even comment on the idea, it's rather silly..

[naimex]

what is there to comment... ???


you´ve been writing thread after thread for several months now, on vairous ways to make sure no one would be bothered to play the PPU.


Take it easy with these damn threads, and think it through.

These pop-up ideas aren´t worth jack shit...

[EternalDecay]

You just don't get it do you. Nobody likes any of your game destroying ideas. So please stop trying to argue them till you're blue in the face because you're not changing anyones mind.

[Eledhbrant]

You said PPUs couldnt just cast it over and over? Sure, I could, easily, 2 second cast time? Fine, but I wouldn't die. if I can just dance a little and BAM 40% hp it'd be too easy to live but make the class BORING AS FUCKING HELL to play in a fight because you dont do shit but heal heal heal (oh your shelter dropped too late you're dead because heals dont stay running anymore!)

[steweygrrr]

"oh god no, I'd have to somthing other than heal to survive a fight, I'd have to shealter and buff and try and keep my team alive... on no can't have anything that threaten's my PPU's power's, I don't want a ballenced class, I want my char to be godlike"


Isn't that what we do anyway?????

Anyway to me, as a PPU, this would mean pretty much either instant death or tedium. I say this because if it was insta heal like you suggest, I would lose my 40% health, have to wait 3 seconds for it to cast, have lost another 20% or so in that time, get back up a little, get another one off, have lost more healt in that time ad infinitum. I would have NO way to fight back, would have to stand there taking the damage while healing and would have to face up to the inevetible that I have been resigned from healer class to target pratice class. There would be no way of surviving being attacked. So IMHO it unbalances PPU's not the reverse.

[Scanner Darkly]

I think thats the most horrible idea concerning PPUs Ive heard to date. I would have 0 probs with removal of para, I could live with only self cast shields, but this??

Have you ever taken a team into a chaos cave, against high end mobs where a heal that lasts over 15 (or more with crouching) seconds can mean the difference between sanity and RSI+loonybin?

/SD

[Q`alooaith]

Take it easy with these damn threads, and think it through.


Go away and don't read them if you don't like them.


I suggested a total class reballence, which has very little effect on psi's..

I suggested a new PPU spell that might make people want to be a PPU as a support char rather than a never be killed char..


I've suggested a set a spy only item's which fit's in with the idea of what spy's are..



I've not made 100 nerf PPU thread's, I have done a few idea's for trying to ballence PPU's without changing certain things.


Please rember, none of the figure's in this thread have been ballenced you fool's, the cast time's have not been ballenced and I even said they do need ballencing..


So, stop saying "oh it's overpower/underpowered" instead suggest other number's instead of 40%, or 2 20% tick's, you know, don't pissshit about the idea because it sounds like it's overpowered..


So stop bitching about the ballence of it, and say what you think would be good number's, rember this is instant heal after the spell has been cast, so while it's casting your not healing..

[Carinth]

Wow, the hostility.

Anyway, not a bad idea. It would require some tweaks prolly and lots of brainstorming. An instant heal is much weaker then a dot heal. Dot heals have the ability to outheal damage done to the person. Instant heals only recover health lost. It has a lot of potential to balance ppu's, just hafta be careful not to weaken them too much. It also makes more sense rpwise, having Heal actualy return life, instead of just increasing your regen rate.

I like it.

[Q`alooaith]

Wow, the hostility.


I'm just pissed people see me brainstorming a ton of idea's and choose to hate them all because they are "pop up idea's"




I like it.

Seeing as you normaly oppose most PPU "nerf" idea's, that's good to hear support..

The idea is to have it so a fully buffed PPU with good resist setup can outheal one person shooting at them, maybe losing a bit of health over time maybe..

But an unbuffed PPU with good resist setup has to do somthing other than heal, like throw up a shelt/deflect or somthing..

[Furion]

The idea is to have it so a fully buffed PPU with good resist setup can outheal one person shooting at them, maybe losing a bit of health over time maybe..


a fully buffed ppu with a good resist setup could outheal like 20 people with insta heal that gives 40% of his hp back. keep heal as it is, maybe give 50% reduction on foreign cast

[naimex]

Currently PPU's heal's tick health on over time, they do it a small ammount every tick for 15 seconds, well holy heal's not such a little ammoutn but anyway..

I suggest a change, rather than have heal's restore health over time, have them restore health all in one go... So first level heal restores 10% of the target's hitpoint's, blessed restores 25% of the target's hitpoint's and holy restore's 40% of the target's hitpoint's..

Now..

Increase the cast time of heal's to compesate, it'd only have to be a little, but it'd have to be ballenced properly, which might take a little time to find the happy middle..




Or, maybe just have it do the heal upfront, as it it ticks the heal on over two second's, with heal doing two 5% heal tick's, blessed doing two 18% tick's, and holy doing two 20% ticks..

Well, it break's a PPU's ablity to heal and ignore for a bit, while not killing the heal off totaly..

since you decided to be aggressive againt what I mean then allow me to show you :

You propose the heal to do instant heal, and then nothing more until next cast.

That´s fine..

and you want 10 - 25 and 40 % as your proposed values :

That means a Tank can get 50 hlt in a few secs instead of 60-80 hlt in a few secs + 10 seconds
A PE can get 45 hlt in less than 1 sec instead of 80 - 100 in less than 1 sec + 10 seconds
A PPU can get 200 hlt in less than 1/2 second, instead of 400 in less than 1/2 sec + 10 seconds
A SPY can get 10 - 20 hlt in a few secs instead of 80 - 100 in a few secs + 10 seconds..

so infact you will be overpowering, PPU/PE/TANK and at the same time nerfing the spy even more than it is.


you see where I´m going now ??

by doing that you would make nearly every class damn near immortal.

With heal over time, at least you have a chance to kill them, whilst it´s ticking..


This way, they can just cast "insta heal" cast "insta heal".

and on top of that you want the spells to be cast faster !!

that means my tank can get to full health in less than 10 seconds..




Get it yet ?

I damn hope you do.

[Q`alooaith]

Get it yet ?

I damn hope you do.

I've not been agressive toward's you, yet. do not push your luck.



Look at what I've said, and said over and over and over..


This idea is insta heal's, not insta heal's at 5% 10% or whatever % of the player's max health, it's all about the insta heal's the number's cast time and all that crap need heavy ballencing for it to work in game, but the idea is sound..


Rather than thinking of it like a class gaining health instantly, reember their is a cast time, so instead of it being healing 15 health every second for 15 seconds with a cast time of one second..

It'd be like, a cast time of three seconds, healing of 60 health.. and that's it..


Do not forget the idea is to also up the casting time, so even a TL3 heal would take three second's to cast in the hand's of somone capping it..

Now the idea of it only healing a % of the person's health come's from the way damage is done, damge is done based on the target's health, so healing should be the same..


go away, you just want your uber PPU.

[naimex]

I've not been agressive toward's you, yet. do not push your luck.



Look at what I've said, and said over and over and over..


This idea is insta heal's, not insta heal's at 5% 10% or whatever % of the player's max health, it's all about the insta heal's the number's cast time and all that crap need heavy ballencing for it to work in game, but the idea is sound..


Rather than thinking of it like a class gaining health instantly, reember their is a cast time, so instead of it being healing 15 health every second for 15 seconds with a cast time of one second..

It'd be like, a cast time of three seconds, healing of 60 health.. and that's it..


Do not forget the idea is to also up the casting time, so even a TL3 heal would take three second's to cast in the hand's of somone capping it..

Now the idea of it only healing a % of the person's health come's from the way damage is done, damge is done based on the target's health, so healing should be the same..


go away, you just want your uber PPU.

wow, nice..

I havent played a PPU since the third hybrid nerf.

so stop ur assumptions.



and I´m not pushing my luck, I´m posting facts.


and no matter what % you will set the heal at,

how would you feel, if medikits became instant ?

it´s exactly the same thing..


it will be :

get hit get hit get hit
cast
get hit get hit get hit
cast
get hit get hit get hit
cast

the advantage about heal over time, is that you have a possibility of outdamaging the heal.

if it was instant, then you would NEVER outdamage it.

and if you up the casting time, then the only ones getting severely affected by it are everyone except the PPU, and then you can hardly call it a ppu nerf.

nor a heal rebalancing, but closer to a new heal.


and a new heal is not what we need..

infact, the problem has never been with PPUs, or heal.

the problem is with people failing to adapt.


lets analyze the PPU :

Limited Attack
Godlike Defense


There is a connection you know.

every class that has a lot of one thing, has almost nothing in the other..

its a 100 / 100 thing

ppus have 5 offense and 95 defense.

and other classes have theirs differently put.
but that is not a part of this topic.


The longer cast time you put, the more you nerf, tank and spy
The faster cast time you put, the more you overpowerer tank and balance spy
The more % you put, the more you overpower PE/TANK/PPU, and balance spy
The less % you put, the more you gimp PE/TANK/SPY/PPU


Heal is DEFINITELY NOT the way to go to nerf a single class, as it affect every class except APUs, which i believe is not even a part of this topic.

[Shadow Dancer]

I like Q's idea, because I still think that PPU can outheal several people attacking him/her. The thing is, he actually has to focus on the healing to survive a group attack, instead of just casting heal once and just running around freely for the next 15 seconds.

[jiga]

If you dedicate a whole character to their denfence then they shuld be able to survive any attack. Don't weaken the ppu

[Carinth]

er, if you did a search for my name and ppu threads, you'd see I often do support ppu nerfs. What I don't support is making ppu's unplayable/unfun.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding somthing here, but how can you outheal more with insta heal then with dot heal?! Dot Heal is one cast and automaticly recovers your health for 60 seconds. Damage done to a ppu is undone just by havin the spell active, that's how a ppu can stand up to so many. You hafta apply enough damage to outdo his heal or strip his buffs. Otherwise the ppu will run around and taunt you. With insta heal, you don't outheal. What you do is recover from being hurt. Your health goes down to 1/4 left and you hit a heal send it back to 3/4. To outheal damage, you'd hafta constantly heal heal heal heal everytime you're hit.

I think this would have a positive effect on ppu's. Yes it would make our jobs harder, but it'd be more balanced. Right now casting a Heal is like 60 seconds of invulnerability. Insta Healing a portion of your health is much more fair.

I do believe that there should be compensation though, if we make healing more difficult, then other aspects of being a ppu need to be made easier. For example group buffs, improved team displays so the ppu can see team info, extra quickbelt, less importance of slots, and then theres a whole list of bugs/imbalances that do nothing other then make ppu's the most difficult class to play.

[Shadow Dancer]

60 seconds? What in blazes are you talking about?

Heal doesn't last 60 seconds. O_O

[steweygrrr]

60 seconds? What in blazes are you talking about?

Heal doesn't last 60 seconds. O_O

if you are smart you have a sanctum up doing a healt tic one every 4 seconds or so, along with your 'standard' dot heal woth one tic every 2 seconds.

[Q`alooaith]

er, if you did a search for my name and ppu threads, you'd see I often do support ppu nerfs. What I don't support is making ppu's unplayable/unfun.


I know, which mean's the idea look's good..

Rather than making the game unfun, it'd mean you have to work.. which is a good thing..



The point is you'd have to heal heal heal heal with my idea, whereas currently you can pop a heal on, buff, S/D heal, Para, Damage boost, heal...

The idea take's PPU's from their godlike perch down to the support role they where alway's meant to be..

[Candaman]

together with the fact a ppu could have all 3 heals in his belt for continous casting would make this idea overpowered and the fact u have 3 ppu´s all cast the holy heal @ the same time u have tank with full health again so stoopid idea

also hinch says stfu

Cannings
(live from berlin)

[Q`alooaith]

together with the fact a ppu could have all 3 heals in his belt for continous casting would make this idea overpowered and the fact u have 3 ppu´s all cast the holy heal @ the same time u have tank with full health again so stoopid idea

also hinch says stfu

Cannings
(live from berlin)

IT would still take 3 second's to cast..

Don't think of it as cast healed, one, two, three, cast.. <-- this is not the idea

It's diffrent it's, Cast, one, two three, healed... <-- this is the idea..



The instant part is the healing, it's do all the healing effect the instant the spell has finished casting (taking three or more seconds to cast) Rather than having health tick on over 15 second's as it is now..



Yes two PPU's healing one tank over and over again might be able to keep him alive, though that don't realy matter as the PPU's are healing the tank and not themselves or buffing anyone else during this time..

[Dajuda]

omg nerf the ppus

[[VP]Orion]

This was an awful idea. Man, thats gonna make it so noone wanna play a PPU anymore. They have their hand filled already as it is now.

[[VP]Orion]

Yes two PPU's healing one tank over and over again might be able to keep him alive, though that don't realy matter as the PPU's are healing the tank and not themselves or buffing anyone else during this time..

Of coz it would matter. This would make PK raids even more powerful. Just bring 2 ppus and a tank/apu and just kill everyone with about no risk of being killed themselves.

[Q`alooaith]

Orion']Of coz it would matter. This would make PK raids even more powerful. Just bring 2 ppus and a tank/apu and just kill everyone with about no risk of being killed themselves.

No risk?


If the PPU's are healing the tank/apu they are not healing themselves, they are also no buffing either the tank or themselves, which is very importaint..

Let's just throw three runner's at your happy healing team... hmmm, three spy's I think would be fun..


Spy's shoot PPU 1 with SH's, he drop's dead, next they target the tank, the other PPU is unable to keep up with healing the damage being done and so the tank drop's dead, the PPU heal's himself, but unable dies quickly as his health is removed before he get's off a second self heal...


Now, let's have the same with the tank firing, he maybe take's out one spy, but the other two have taken down one of his PPU's already, and have started on him, they have range since they split up, he chases after one, but loses his leg damage zone before he get's near, is dropped by the remaining two, last PPU leg's it, loses his leg's and then his head..



Yes you could argue that the situation favor's the spy in this case, but it realy does not matter, as long as the spy's can see their target's and can spread out they have a good chance of taking down the tank PPU PPU team.... Though likely to suffer one or two losses doing so if they are in direct combat..


PE's would fair better, so would an all tank team, APU team would have to use diffrent tactic's maybe but would still have a good chance of taking down your tank, PPU, PPU team (from now on TPP)..



You note I say chance, the TPP team could still win, but would not be overpowered..

Rember, a PPU that is constantly casting heal's is not buffing..

[Clownst0pper]

DAoC healer's have the exact same thing, and it works bloody great -

So much so we should adopt what they do, the PPU (healer) dies, all there buffs vanish off the players -

- Now that WOULD own

[Shadow Dancer]

DAoC healer's have the exact same thing, and it works bloody great -

So much so we should adopt what they do, the PPU (healer) dies, all there buffs vanish off the players -

- Now that WOULD own


That's a good idea.

[Clownst0pper]

That's a good idea.

They flipped the use of the healer, healers in DAoC are fragile, but can run really quickly, so are hard to get at.

There defensive capabilitys are very low, they can attack, but not so great, however there buffing and healing is brilliant.

Its how PPU's should have always been.

[Shadow Dancer]

Its how PPU's should have always been.


I agree.


Unforunately, if that happened ppus will be sad that they can't survive 5304287403274 people shooting at them while they parashock and DB runners in pepper park.

[/bitter]

[Q`alooaith]

I agree.


Unforunately, if that happened ppus will be sad that they can't survive 5304287403274 people shooting at them while they parashock and DB runners in pepper park.

[/bitter]

Too many people would complain..


Not only do PPU's complain when you try and alter them or the way they buff or heal, but their dependants (the people they buff and heal) complain about the loss of power and so on..


I've got an idea on changes to other PPU and APU spell's so their effect is much diffrent from normal weapon's... But I'm sure I'd get linched, so many poeple play monk's now it's crazy...



There are so many thing's about this game that should be changed, but if you try and suggest somthing that people have grow used to is bad for the game itself they complain saying that it's alway's been there and they've alway's used it and what right have you to suggest that it is taken away..



I often find myself hating most of the Neocron community, your a great bunch most of the time but at other's your like little brat's that have gotten their own way once too often..