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View Full Version : Ballence, the age old problem.. [idea, ballence fix]



Q`alooaith
15-05-04, 00:10
Well there are plenty of complaint's about ballence and weapon power and so on..

Well I have an idea how to fix the game ballence so everyone's happy...


Unballence the classes


Yup, make tank's the highest general damage dealer's, make the PE's the middleground, not able to deal a huge ammount of damage but also able to do other things as well as cause massive damage, Make the Psi monk's the best support class, dealing exotic damage types and giving good combat boost's and make Spy's the best sneaker/surprise attack/long range support..


Now to do this let's get rid of all the weapons, Psi spell's and armor, zap there are now no item's in the game world.. Best to start all the ballence from scratch.

Wait, we've zapped the weapon's and item's, best zap all the classes skill's while we're at it to better ballence thing's, mob's while we're at it... all gone..


Ok.. Time to rebuild the classes.

Gentanks first..


Genetanks, strong and tough, but not very bright and with no psi potential.. Let's work the stat's to represent this..
Let's put the cap's at;

Intelligence 14 //////// Smart enough to do some basic thing's, but not teribly bright
Strength 100 //////// Strong enough to move mountains, wear the heavyest armor and use the largest guns
Dexterity 45 //////// Able to bend and flex, but not as good as the avarage person due to immense mussucle mass, also lack of fine motor skills
Constitution 100 /////// Able to withstand the most damage before dying..
Psi 1 /////// unable to cast any psi spell's, but still aware of psi power's..



Well that's tank's done, you'll note that the skill total is 260 and the skill's have taken a cap hit in int, dex and psi.. A tank should not be able to use any psi power's at all.


Now for the Private eye...


Private eye's, the average joe nobody, able to become profient in all area's but never becoming a master of any, ballenced scores represent this
Cap's at;

Intelligence 50 ////// average intelligence, but not the brightest spark in the dark
Strength 50 /////// Average strength, able to lift enough able to carry basic weapons without much trouble, though heavyer stuff rest's just beyond reach..
Dexteritiy 50 /////// another average score.. not the bst, but not the worst
Constition 50 ////// Able to take a moderate ammount of damage before death overtakes them
Psi 35 /////// Able to use Psi power's quite easly, beyond and above what most other's can dream of, but still grounded by a lack of focus..




Oh no, I can see the look's now, this PE's only got a skill total of 235, far bellow the genetank... I did say I'd ballence it by not ballencing it didn't I, wait till I get to weapon's and armor for ballence....


Ok, now let's get started on Psi monk's..



Psi Monks, master's of the mind, able to cause harm with a thought and able to shield aganist harm with a word.. Their body's lacking from neglect while mastering the mind and the world of psi..
Cap's at;

Intelligence 70 ////// A high score, since psi's use their mind's often..
Strength 15 /////// Heavy use of psi to compesate for carrying thing leaves the body lacking strength..
Dexdrerity 25 ////// Motor skill's are under devloped due to relaince of psi constanly..
Constition 20 ////// Constant use of psi has left the body less resistant to damage than most...
Psi 100 ////// Highly devloped frontal lobes give a high affinty to psi and power's of the mind..



Now psi monk's get a fairly good skill total of 230, their mastery of all thing's psi is their benifit, as you can see no other class has anywhere near the level of psi as a monk, their body's are frail, but they are inteligent..



Ok, finaly we come to the spys..



Spy's, they are very agile and quick of mind, though lacking strength and durablity. They rely on stealth and tech to get by in this crazy world..
Cap's at;

Intelligence 72 ////// A highly devloped mind, able to grasp complex theorys with ease..
Strength 25 ////// Though not the weakest class, they're not far off..
Dexderity 90 ////// Greatly aglie, the most dexderus class
Constition 30 ////// A bellow average ablity to shrug off wound's..
Psi 4 /////// Though not without psi ablity's, the devlopment is very limited



Ok that's spy's done, with a skill total of 216 spy's have the least, skill points.. But that does not mean they are the weakest.


Overall these changes make each class have it's own feel, with Psi left mostly to the monk's dex mostly in spy's hand's and tank's with the most strength and con, while PE's have enough in each to do fairly well, but not so much that they can ever become master's of a skill..



Weapons, armor and psi changes...



Ok, we've just remade all the classes, now what'll we do about fighting, I know people don't want to just stand about talking, it might be fun for a while but fighting is what it's all about..


Firstly, all non psi weapon's fit into three broad area's, Basic, Tech and Exotic, which I shall now explain.

Lowtech weapons are simple point at the target and pull the trigger, they do "basic damage" I will explain all damage type's later... They are pretty easy to use and all classes can use them if they train to.. The classifcation cover's pistol's, rifles, cannons and melee...

Tech weapon's are harder to use and so take more skill point's to use, they do "tech damage", tech weapon's cover hitech pistol's, hitech rifles, hitech cannons, drones and hitech melee..

Exotic weapons are still harder to use than Tech weapons, and so take a great ammount of skill point's to use, they do both "basic" and "tech" damage at the same time.. This cover's rare's and mob only drop weapons..

Damage types.
Basic damage, is fire, force, perice, and posion.. Weapons that do basic damage use one of these damage types, or a mix of them..

Tech damage, cover's X-ray and energy, weapons' that do tech damage use either of these damage types, but rarely both..


Now we're cooking..

Psi modules

Psi weapon's and defences are all about either or defences and attack's, as in you can cast Deflector (which reduces basic type attacks) OR Shelter (which block's tech type attacks) OR Psi shield (which block's psi attacks)


All psi attack's have two damage type's, Psi damage and one other damage type, the damage is split 50/50 so a fireball spell might do 15 psi damage, and 15 fire damage with 15 force damage on top..

Heal's are also changed, gone are the near insta cast slow ticking of health..

Heal's instead take longer to cast and have an instant effect, the first level heal, heal's 10% of the target's health instantly, bassed on the target's max health, so if the target had been hit and taken 15% off his hitpoint's he'd be healed so he'd be only 5% off his max health..

First level heal heal's 10% of the target's hitpoint's instantly, long cast time.
Second level heal heal's 25% of the target's hitpoint's instantly, long cast time.
Third level heal heal's 40% of the target's hitpoint's instantly, long cast time..

This healing can not take the target over his max hitpoint's, it will only restore lost hitpoints which can be lost again as normal..



And last but by no mean's least, a new skill system

Now for a diffrent system of getting to use weapons..

Every time you level a skill you gain 5 subskill point's in that area.. Well rather than spend that on say rifle combat (which you'd still need to do BTW to get damage % and aim % for the weapon)
You'd have to save up for weapon skill's.. which are as follow's.. they work in a simmilar way to psi amp...

nb, this is a list, ie you don't need pistol use to get rifle use, I've jsut listed them by weapon
Pistol Use, cost's 20 subskill point's to get pistol use to level 1...
Rifle Use, cost's 25 subskill point's to get rifle use to level 1...
Cannon Use, cost's 30 subskill point's to get cannon use to level 1...
Melee Use, cost's 15 subskill point's to get melee use to level 1...
Tech Use, cost's 40 subskill point's to get Tech use to level 1...


As you can see, some of the weapon type's are cheeper to buy, this is because they are easyer to get to grip's with..

Every pistol over TL5 would require Pistol use 1, much like psi spell's need psi amp 1 currently.. Every Tech pistol would need both Pistol use 1, and Tech use 1..


All other req's for weapon use would be removed, but their skill's needed to "cap" them would require the same ammount of relevent skill point's.. So after getting rifle use 1, you could pick up a pain easer, though you'd only hit when right next to the target and then only half the time, and for less damage than a weapon of a lower TL which you can some skill in..


So, what's everyone think of my idea for a total reword of neocron?

EternalDecay
15-05-04, 00:19
It's obvious which class you play.

The classes are fine the way they are. Your version would make EVERYONE play a tank. I have seen a lot of bad ideas in my day but this one is one of the worst so far.

Q`alooaith
15-05-04, 00:22
It's obvious which class you play.

The classes are fine the way they are. Your version would make EVERYONE play a tank. I have seen a lot of bad ideas in my day but this one is one of the worst so far.Which class do I play? Your in for a shock too..


And decay, you've only been here a short time from your forum account... and have posted only one other time.. It rather leads me to think you don't like the changes I'd like because they'd mean you'd have to change your play style, I'm guessing your a PE, or maybe a Psi..

extract
15-05-04, 00:24
everyone knows Q is a dirty monkey :angel:

oh and just because someone was bound to say it sooner or later

balance :p

Q`alooaith
15-05-04, 00:29
everyone knows Q is a dirty monkey :angel:

oh and just because someone was bound to say it sooner or later

balance :p

Well take a quick read though..

Psi's can only block one damage type set at a time with these idea's, which mean's they can only put shield's on other's that block one damage set..



BTW,
Greyhand = Tank

Talia Midord = PE
Q`alooaith = Psi monk

with on char slot oepn currently, thinking of rerolling Talia to a spy, pistol most likely, and then remake one of my older spy char's as a rifle spy...


I do enjoy playing every single class.. I love all their strength's and weakensses and wanted to suggest a change that would bring each weakness to the front, along with the strength's..

EternalDecay
15-05-04, 00:40
I have one of every class besides PE.

My account is new yes, but I did play for the whole beta. I also have just been lurking mostly on these boards. I only bother to post when I see an idea as bad as this as an effort to keep this out of the game. I think things are fine the way they are. All classes have advantages and disadvantages right now. It's when developers of games listen to crap like this that games get ruined beyond repair. I've seen every MMO game that was once good be destroyed by developers listening to terrible ideas. I just hope that dosen't happen to this game too.

Marx
15-05-04, 00:40
I agree with tanks getting nil for psi. History states that they have just enough juice to light a lightbulb over there head, not enough to control PSI.


. Due to the fact that the original “recipe” did not call for any particular emotional or intellectual prowess, the tank cannot develop any PSI capabilities. This emotionally disturbed individual is extremely aggressive and talented in the use of all kinds of weapons

Q`alooaith
15-05-04, 00:59
well..



Back up files you don't wanna lose imo.

that don't sound like a commplaint about a realy realy bad idea..


anyway..


Marx yes that was my idea, some of the classes get way too much power... But I first of all wanted Psi, to be somthing more rare, as in you'd go out hunting with your freind's but only one or two could cast even a basic heal..

The scaled heal's is what I'd want the most, basicaly it take's the heal's that currently are overpowered to the extream and bring them in line by giving them a longer casting time and a one time heal, which would only heal a % of the target's health, so a low level heal would still be effective... It'd also as a side effect get rid of uber PPUness as PPU's would not be able to cast heal and be healing for 15 second's, they'd heal big, but in such a way that they'd be more defensive..

plague
15-05-04, 01:09
no offence but the tanks realy stands out, all was done is skills on all other classes lowered but tank that would imbalance game innormously and it would be like old days T3H Ub3R Tak0rzz.... nah i'd quit if they made this changes......

Q`alooaith
15-05-04, 01:23
no offence but the tanks realy stands out, all was done is skills on all other classes lowered but tank that would imbalance game innormously and it would be like old days T3H Ub3R Tak0rzz.... nah i'd quit if they made this changes......

Would you realy?


I just ran out of steam toward's the end, I was going to go on and on and on about weapon damage changes and new item's, changes to armor and so on..

I was also going to touch onto XP needed to level skill's again, so rather than you needing the same between the classes, classes with higher skill totals would need more XP's to level up and so on...


If I'd ran on with more steam it'd of souned soo much better.

plague
15-05-04, 01:26
Would you realy?


I just ran out of steam toward's the end, I was going to go on and on and on about weapon damage changes and new item's, changes to armor and so on..

I was also going to touch onto XP needed to level skill's again, so rather than you needing the same between the classes, classes with higher skill totals would need more XP's to level up and so on...


If I'd ran on with more steam it'd of souned soo much better.

No, I probobly would not quit if they mate those changes I would just play my tank :D, but if they r to make suitable armor and tools, weapons to opose the tanks then it might look more interesting but from the skill point of view it looks like tanks would be superior to all other classes.. :cool:

Q`alooaith
15-05-04, 01:29
that's the idea, tank's should have the "best" basic fighting stats, but they should lack in other area's..

Dribble Joy
15-05-04, 01:40
Personnally things atm are pretty much as they shoud be other than a few unbalancing issues, which could be solved pretty easily, though somwhat hard to swallow.

plague
15-05-04, 01:40
that's the idea, tank's should have the "best" basic fighting stats, but they should lack in other area's..

true but since it's mostly pvp based game tanks heaving access to best weapons, armor, etc... would imbalance the game quite well, but then again if there is tools, traps or somthing that can kill tank for other clases would make up for it. I like this game cuz it's has best pvp and RP that one game could ever combine, and if that would be changed I think lotsa ppl would be unhappy, thats why i think classes should be somewhat close in pvp abilities.. :angel:

greendonkeyuk
15-05-04, 01:45
but if tanks are the main focus in combat and combat is the main focus of the game what kind of benefit is there from being a pe say or even a spy for that matter. if to do so gimps ur self only the brave, masochistic or highly skilled peeps will play as the other classes. it will be tankocron or it will be incredibly boring/difficult to play as any other. some of it i like but not having all the skill levels add up to the same i dont care for.

Q`alooaith
15-05-04, 01:56
No greendonkeyuk, just take a look what I said..


Tank's would have the best pure skill's, so they are the strongest and toughest... but that's not to say they would have to be the best PvPer's..


Let's say tank's cannon's have a range of 200 metre's, and a spy's sniper rifle has a range of 1000 metre's, who's going to win the fight....

I wanted to make the classes more diffrent from each other..


The diffrence does not have to be weapon ranges.... Remeber the tank has no heal, he's only got 1 psi, not enough point's to use the lowest APU spell, let alone and PPU spell, where as a PE would be able to use some low/mid low PPU spell's, and semi decent weapon's and armor, with a fairly good resist chance... Spy would be able to use some of the low psi stuff, but more importaintly be able to stealth and sneak and all that.. basicaly the idea was to make classes more diffrent..

Tank's, the most straight forward, and also simplest tactic's, kill it before it kill's you..

PE's, Wear em down, use diffrent weapons and stuff till you find somthing that works..

Spy's, Sneak around and surprise attack, then repeat and so on..

Mirco
15-05-04, 02:27
I think its an interesting thought experiment(I cant ever think that kk would ever make such big changes). What I like the most is the way the different classes stands out as different.

I also like if I understand it correctly the weapon/skill system. This would mean that the difference in damage dealing ability between noobs and veterans would be less than it is now, but a veteran would be able to do alot more different things. Is this how you meant it to be?

EternalDecay
15-05-04, 02:29
I think 9 no votes vs the 1 yes vote(which is probably yourself) should say enough.