Truely passive spells [idea; PPU ballencing]

[Q`alooaith]

We've all complained about PPU ballence before, now an idea on how to fix PPU ballence.. shock horror, by giving them a new spell..


Introducing the spiffy new "holy gun jam group", here we have a spell that causes all conventional weapon's to jam, making them unusable for a short time.

The idea is it jam's weapon's in the area of effect when it goes off, anyone in the effect when it's cast is unable to use their weapon's or spell's, now since it's a group spell it'd also catch the PPU too but then it's a very powerfull ablity.


Also a single target version, but both should have cast cost's of about 150-200+ psi energy per cast, but a very short cast time, coupled with a long reload time..

So you could for example cast it in under 2 second's, but would not be able to recast for 30.



Now with a truely passive spell at their command PPU's power's could be tweaked, other anti PPU system's created, with maybe a little less complaining from PPU's.


Anyone like it?

Please note, I don't care if you don't care about the idea, there is no "I don't want to vote" option for this reason, I only want to know if people like the idea, or if they don't like it, maybe is not for people who don't want to vote on it, if you don't want to vote on it don't press the frelling vote option!

[Shadow Dancer]

Yes I agree, let's give them even more power in pvp.


Not.


Even if it only affects the ppu, their are still ways for them to use this to their advantage. Oh, and you also want a single target one? Um no. PPUs have enough power as it is, they can already screw someone over with damage boost and parashock, you want to give them another aggressive spell that is sugar coated in definition to make it seem passive?


No way.


I vote no.


Why do you feel PPUs should get this?

[Q`alooaith]

shadow dancer, you've missed the point.


This spell IS passive, yes it'd be used to dissarm people and the PPU's freind's would come over and beat the snot out of them.. yes it would happen but it's more passive than paraspam.

More passive than damage boost..

Also it'd have to last a short time too, maybe 5-10 second's or so, enough that it's worth casting, but not so much that it can be spammed, since it'd of worn off by the time the second casting wast done.


Now with a spell like this open to them other classes could be given anti PPU weapon's, or PPU spell's lowered in power so they don't spoil PvP..


The question you should ask yourself is, would you rather be moving at a slow crawl, or unable to shoot for a few seconds?

[Shadow Dancer]

shadow dancer, you've missed the point.




You always say that. Everyone who disagrees with you always "misses the point". O_o




This spell IS passive, yes it'd be used to dissarm people and the PPU's freind's would come over and beat the snot out of them.. yes it would happen but it's more passive than paraspam.

More passive than damage boost..


Um, how is that more passive than damage boost or paraspam? It seems just as offensive as those 2 spells. It directly affects the enemy in a negative way.





Now with a spell like this open to them other classes could be given anti PPU weapon's, or PPU spell's lowered in power so they don't spoil PvP..




More anti ppu weapons is not gonna help. Their IMPORTANCE(ppus I mean) has to be toned down. But that's discussion for another thread I guess.






The question you should ask yourself is, would you rather be moving at a slow crawl, or unable to shoot for a few seconds?


Um, you didn't say anything about replacing parashock. I would obviously choose being unable to shoot then being a nice free target for everyone with poor aiming to kill me.

But you said introduce a new spell. The thought of being parashocked, damage boosted, AND not being able to use my gun due to a "passive" character, is just too much.

[Marx]

More anti ppu weapons is not gonna help. Their IMPORTANCE(ppus I mean) has to be toned down. But that's discussion for another thread I guess.
[insert rant] DEX BASED FIRST AID SKILL! [/insert rant]

[Q`alooaith]

You always say that. Everyone who disagrees with you always "misses the point". O_o


Because when people dissagree with me it's mostly because they have missed the point.


It's a passive spell because it does not directly damage you, which is what I think it the current definition of passive in term's of this game.. (with exceptions of course)



Now I totaly dissagree with you, more anti PPU weapon's will make PPU's less importaint, because if you can negate some of the PPU's ablity's or effectivly take them out of the fight you make taking them more a risk and thus better to take more people with gun's..


Now maybe the single target one is too far, but the group version don't seam too bad to me, as it defangs the PPU too, effectivly meaning they can't cast their holy heal or such till the effect wear's off...

[Shadow Dancer]

alooaith]Because when people dissagree with me it's mostly because they have missed the point.




O_o





It's a passive spell because it does not directly damage you, which is what I think it the current definition of passive in term's of this game.. (with exceptions of course)



Oh give me a damn break. Something doesn't have to do damage to be considered aggressive. If your definition is correct, let's give antibuff to ppus ffs. Let's give them a spell that stops time except for everyone in their team. Let's give them a spell that reduces all the resists of a person to 0. As long as it doesn't do any damage right?

Pffttt.





Now I totaly dissagree with you, more anti PPU weapon's will make PPU's less importaint, because if you can negate some of the PPU's ablity's or effectivly take them out of the fight you make taking them more a risk and thus better to take more people with gun's..



It won't make them less important. Because you will STILL need them just as much at op wars, perhaps even more of them now that they can be more easily disabled. You have to look at the source of the problem. Which is what the PPU can do to affect the battle. That won't change, no matter how many anti-ppu weapons are created.

[Biznatchy]

[insert rant] DEX BASED FIRST AID SKILL! [/insert rant]

cool, kinda intruging idea.

On topic,,, how can i say hell no enough with out getting banned. Two PPUs one disables weps the other para shocks and I think i would just hit ALT f4 and just not come back.

[Lareolan]

My main character is a PPU and I STILL think this is a bad idea.

I'd rather have rare 1-shot tools to screw over PPUs if we are to be killed. And we can STILL be killed rather easily if you know what you're doing.

[Q`alooaith]

O_o
It won't make them less important. Because you will STILL need them just as much at op wars, perhaps even more of them now that they can be more easily disabled. You have to look at the source of the problem. Which is what the PPU can do to affect the battle. That won't change, no matter how many anti-ppu weapons are created.

No that's an attitude, I mean look at the current anti PPU stuff, it'll take PPU's out with some luck and skill, so people bring more PPU's, but with even more anti PPU weapon's it soon break's down..

When you have enough counter weapon's PPU's no longer become a must, as there are better ways to use the player's that are playing the PPU's.. When there are enough anti PPU weapons..



Don't think all anti PPU weapon's need to be able to kill a PPU, there are more effective meathods, say like a weapon that stop's the target getting PPU buff's for a short time but does not remove them, or a weapon that causes drugflash on the target..

Anti PPU weapon's can be weapon's or tool's that either kill PPU's, or negate their effect's for a time.. Anti PPU does not mean dead PPU.

[petek480]

When you have enough counter weapon's PPU's no longer become a must, as there are better ways to use the player's that are playing the PPU's.. When there are enough anti PPU weapons..
As long as ppus are as important as they are now they will always be needed. You can have all the anti ppu weapons you want but they'll be a must. Have more or no anti ppus weapons will do nothing. People bring mostly apus and ppus to fights. Apus have anti ppu weapons but people still bring lots of ppus. So why would having more anti weapons for different classes or just one do anything?

[Q`alooaith]

You lack imagination..


With a large nmber of anti PPU weapons and tools that Dissrupt PPU's, as I said before..


Anti PPU weapon's and tool's don't have to kill the PPU, they just have to negate the PPU's effect..

Say a tool that stop's the target for taking PPU heal's and buff's for a time, now don't scoff it off.

What would happen to an even mix of PPU's and APU's if the APU's where suddenly unable to take PPU shield's and buff's for even 15 seconds?


I'll tell you what would happen, they'd get beaten into a bloody pulp rather quickly.


So then the winner is not the team with more PPU's, it's the team with more anti PPU effect weapon's and tool's.


Like I've said, enough anti PPU gear and PPU's will limit themselves.

[petek480]

You lack imagination..


With a large nmber of anti PPU weapons and tools that Dissrupt PPU's, as I said before..


Anti PPU weapon's and tool's don't have to kill the PPU, they just have to negate the PPU's effect..

Say a tool that stop's the target for taking PPU heal's and buff's for a time, now don't scoff it off.

What would happen to an even mix of PPU's and APU's if the APU's where suddenly unable to take PPU shield's and buff's for even 15 seconds?


I'll tell you what would happen, they'd get beaten into a bloody pulp rather quickly.


So then the winner is not the team with more PPU's, it's the team with more anti PPU effect weapon's and tool's.


Like I've said, enough anti PPU gear and PPU's will limit themselves.
Ok enough imagination, now lets step back into reality. It still doesn't solve the problem with ppus importances. PPUs will still be needed for there ability to turn others into gods even if there are anti ppus weapons that can stop a ppu from casting buffs on other people. You will still be at a disadvantage going into a fight of 15 tanks/pes/spies/apus and 5 ppus vs 10 tanks/pes/spies/apus and 10 ppus. Becuase now you'll need even more ppus to make sure everyone is getting buffed before the enemy can cast there anti ppu weapons on them and more ppus to make sure they get rebuffed if there buffs are taken off.

[Q`alooaith]

which turn';s it into the number's game..


You find 50 people in your clan willing to go to the fight...


You want plenty of PPU's so you ask for say 30 of them to log their PPU alts...


If you can get 30 people to come to a fight as PPU's, and 20 more to come carrying weapons, good luck to you..

In the number's game which you've taken to playing, how many people will want to play as PPU's, knowing that their are weapon's and tool's which might mean their effort's are wasted, or they get killed early and so on...


Don't forget their are a fineite number of player's in this little game, and if you have 100 on your side, and you tell over half of them that they need to be PPU's "just in case" well hello shrinking clan.

[petek480]

In the number's game which you've taken to playing, how many people will want to play as PPU's, knowing that their are weapon's and tool's which might mean their effort's are wasted, or they get killed early and so on...
How many will come as a ppu? As many as it takes to win. You seem to be missing the point. No matter how many anti ppu weapons that are added to this game it won't decrease the need we have for ppus like now. The only way to do that is to decrease there importance, but hey if you want to keep thinking that anti weapons will fix the problem then go ahead. It seems like thats the same way KK are thinking too and how long have we had problems with monks?

[naimex]

as it is now..

2 persons regarding of class, shooting at eachother, both with holy heal, will still have full health when the guns run out of ammo.


and now you want people not even able to use their weapons..


I´d take my chances with para/db anytime over not being able to draw my gun..



I had a bug last night, that just exactly did this..

I still had my speedy, but my CS and Malediction went red even though they had plenty of condition, and all that... they just didnt work..

now imagine this happening in EVERY war and not just the one last night..

you have any idea how frustrating it is to have an apu with holy heal hit you every second ??

you couldnt kill the person when the guns were up, but atleast you could put up a fight..

then suddenly you cant even fight.. and only option is to run away, getting hit over and over, becoming slower and slower untill death..


and you want this to happen in every war...


why dont i just go make my apu monk ppu before i get too high lvl..

if this gets implemented, its the only class able to stand a chance.

[olavski]

Holy gun jam spell O_o

So another reason to lom to melee for tanks ? ;)

This spell will annoy the crap out of people, even more than the beloved para.

First they can't run and now they can't even shoot anymore.

[Lareolan]

When you have enough counter weapon's PPU's no longer become a must, as there are better ways to use the player's that are playing the PPU's.. When there are enough anti PPU weapons..


*raises his hand* excuse me?
Mr. Q`alooaith, I have a question!
If there are so many anti-PPU weapons that make PPUs useless, then why have PPUs in the first place? You said it yourself that people will stop bringing PPUs to OP wars.

Either you really have a grudge against PPUs, or you haven't thought your ideas through at all. So it's not US that missed the point, I think you kinda missed your own point. :D

[]v[ortice]

The topic starter used the 'B' word and even failed to spell it correctly!!!

1 v 1 Combat Equality cannot and will not be acheived in this MMORPG. It's a basic law of Neo-physics.

It never will happen when you start playing classes against each other.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a little bit of change. This isn't the way forward though in my opinion.

[sanityislost]

Sorry man but i kinda dont like ur idea, in my view all ppu spells should have now neg effects to ANY runner. they should only be a support role to there group by healing,buffing,ect


SiL

[Carinth]

I like your idea, with some modifications, but I dislike your pov on ppu's.

I've long felt an antigun spell would be a taste of your own medicine for all the people who're in favor of antibuff and all the similar devices. We don't particularly need it, outside of a sense of revenge. I would much rather both didnt exist at all.

An antigun sanctum would need to be balanced by being vulnerable too melee. Ressurect is balanced because the ppu is very vulnerable. If he's taking too much damage or is debuffed, he has to run away and stop ressurecting. In the same way a ppu using antigun sanctum would be vulnerable to melee, if enough damage is done, the ppu will hafta run away. Also it might be a good idea to make the antigun sanctum also give off the holy cath effect. So that shock and damage boost are useless inside of it. Being shocked, boosted, and your gun jammed is a bit too much : )

PPU's are too important, their presence will decide a fight hands down. Not only pvp but they influence nearly everything you do in the game. Even tradeskillers are ppu's or are enhanced by ppu's. A ppu with level3 booster spells is everyone's best friend. PPU's have sooooo many dif jobs and abilities, we're almost more JOAT then pe's. To solve this, we need to reduce the importance of the ppu. The best way to do this is to give responsibility to others, share the burden. A perfect example would be spy medics with tech instead of psi.

Instead KK is focusing on not making us less important, they make us less fun. By making ppu's more stressful, less rewarding, people will play ppu's left often. Some die hards will remain and they will still ruin pvp nomatter what anti device you come up with. Because you havn't addressed their importance at all. You've just shrunken their numbers down so there aren't that many. If you think that would be better, then you prolly weren't around for the rise of the ppu's.

At first ppu's were rather sucky, the only people that went ppu were those that truely liked the idea of the class. Much later, after many fixes, ppu's actualy became powerful. But the only people that noticed this were the original die hard ppu's that stuck with it. Suddenly amid TankoCron, a handful of ppu's appeared that totaly dominated the entire server. In a way no super hybrid ever could. Hybrids wrecked fights by their own actions, being way too hard to kill and still doing full damage. PPU's wrecked fights by enhancing the entire team and totaly dominating any team without a ppu. These few ppu's migrated into each of the big clans and pretty much secured the clan's position on the top. Those ppu's and the clans supporting them had a blast, with only each other as competition. It took quite a while before enough people caught on and rerolled to ppu. While some of my most fondest memories are from back then, I really don't think going back would solve anything. Is it better for pvp to be ruined by a server full of ppu's, or a handful? Either way the ppu's are still controling the game.

[amputator]

which turn';s it into the number's game..


You find 50 people in your clan willing to go to the fight...


You want plenty of PPU's so you ask for say 30 of them to log their PPU alts...


If you can get 30 people to come to a fight as PPU's, and 20 more to come carrying weapons, good luck to you..

In the number's game which you've taken to playing, how many people will want to play as PPU's, knowing that their are weapon's and tool's which might mean their effort's are wasted, or they get killed early and so on...


Don't forget their are a fineite number of player's in this little game, and if you have 100 on your side, and you tell over half of them that they need to be PPU's "just in case" well hello shrinking clan.

30 ppu's for 20 fighters is just sick :wtf:

[Mirco]

I voted no. I started my NC career as a droner. Now much to my own incompetene, lack of experience and not to forget the lack of stealth I got killed alot(I can`t believe I stuck with drones for as long as I did). I tell you, it wasn`t being killed that got to me. It was that it was impossible to go down with any glory. I was running from A to B and then a smurf showes up on the horizon. One flick with my cursor showed me it was an enemy.

He sees me and runs over, on the run pulls up his CS(I still get tenced when I hear the sound of plasma cannons) burps away a burst and its GR time. The fact that I couldn`t prolong my death or put up some kind of fight was the hardest slap in the face of all. All I could do was say Doooooohhhh Hello sir nice gun you got there, wait a second I`ll just bend over. There, ok give it to me sir, no need to be gentle. The fact that I was nothing more than some runner that the ganker would despose of in the same manner as he would a small spider is damn hard to take. Its the closest thing I ever felt to being violated ever.

Anything bringing me back to anything resembling those situations I`d fight with my teeth if I have to.

[yavimaya]

dont know if anyone else posted this, couldnt be fucked reading it all.....

Point being, why should every class have to start carrying an extra gun or 4? and all that extra ammo! just to take out a PPU..... whom will likely be saved by the PPU standing next to him :P

[Q`alooaith]

I like your idea, with some modifications, but I dislike your pov on ppu's.
.


I dislike PPU's because of the effect they have on the game..

I mean what other class can render your shooting a waste of ammo?..


ooo ooo ooo, another idea... hehehe... Nerf the PPU's by boosting their heal... oh it's sooo sneaky...

[SypH]

Yeah, because having a PPU damage boost and para shcok you only makes your nearly useless, let's add this to make you totally useless!

Sorry but imo it's a wank idea. People are too over dependant on PPU's as it is. All this will result in is other people bringing their own PPU's to counter their lack of weapons and everyone will be moving at 1 mile an hour and fighting with their fists.

[EternalDecay]

Why exactly do you do this to yourself. You put up a terrible idea and then argue to everyone about why it's good even though it's not. Do you enjoy getting shot down or what is your deal.