View Full Version : Spy anti ppu idea
I think that spies are rather useless in OP wars today. All they can really do is snipe and hack the OP. I propose that spies are made so that they can kill ppus. They should have anti shelter and anti deflector mods for weapons (perhaps like spirit mods, but more commonly available). This would make good use of spies and would help to stop people bringing loads of ppus to OP wars. What do you guys think?
no... shut up about nerf the ppu.. enough is enough for fucks sake
no... shut up about nerf the ppu.. enough is enough for fucks sake
It's a pain in the arse when people bring a ppu for every person at OP wars and they are too damn hard to kill if there isn't a dev tank around
they are not hard to kill if you know what you are doing... get some skills and a proper team
slaughteruall
12-05-04, 20:24
no... shut up about nerf the ppu.. enough is enough for fucks sake
Agree. Why does every class want to be able to kill a PPU. And BTW get 2 spies together with certain weapons and they CAN and DO drop PPU's like rocks. One can almost do it but you have to reload the gun.
Slaughter
they are not hard to kill if you know what you are doing... get some skills and a proper team
Don't take it out on me if you've had a bad day. Go to bed
It's a pain in the arse when people bring a ppu for every person at OP wars and they are too damn hard to kill if there isn't a dev tank around
You mean a apu?
KK wont remove the ppu class from Neocron so your going to have to live with it. If you have a dev tank or apu it's not so bad. Only a pain when the enemy has 4+ ppus. PPUs are now apart of Neocron and we have to accept it. Spy mods that remove s/d would be way to powerful.
steweygrrr
12-05-04, 20:27
It's a pain in the arse when people bring a ppu for every person at OP wars and they are too damn hard to kill if there isn't a dev tank around
A PPU who knows what he is doing won't die to a devtank. The damage is easy to outheal, a HAPS/Cath Sanct will negate the stacks, a good shelter/belt will take care of the fire, hazard/ another belt reduces the poison effect and a heal santum just for overkill is nice too.
Agree. Why does every class want to be able to kill a PPU. And BTW get 2 spies together with certain weapons and they CAN and DO drop PPU's like rocks. One can almost do it but you have to reload the gun.
Slaughter
Yes they might be able to kill a ppu who is on their own but usually they have a friend with a CS who will drop u in 2 shots
If spies want to be ppu killers, then you'll hafta get rid of the apu's. It's totaly unfair to have two classes devoted to killing ppu's. APU's are plenty good at it already. Then you'll hafta actualy fix True Sight Sanctum up and give ppu's the role as anti stealth fighters.
While I agree spies should be given more roles, ppu fighter is not one. Try focusing on what spies should be good at. IMO Spies should be the masters of gadgets/technology. Mines, Turrets, Grenades, Vehicles, Mechs, ForceFields, etc.
The whole point of this idea was to make spies more useful and some of you have misunderstood it and thought that it was a 'nerf the ppu' idea.
slaughteruall
12-05-04, 20:51
Yes they might be able to kill a ppu who is on their own but usually they have a friend with a CS who will drop u in 2 shots
Maybe you just need to watch some spies with skill fight. A spy with skill can take down a tank. Not with PPU buffs were talking solo. And if there is a OP team with just spys that is just funny. Talk about a waste of a trip for the spy's.
Slaughter
Dribble Joy
12-05-04, 20:56
A spy with skill can take down a tank. Not with PPU buffs were talking solo. And if there is a OP team with just spys that is just funny. Talk about a waste of a trip for the spy's.
Slaughter
I think someone inadvertently rose the real problem about ppu imbalance.
no seriously this isnt a nerf the ppu thread i kinda agree coz wen im on my apu i can antibuff but the ppu can rebuff..wen im on my tank i can use the devourer which stil hurts ppus its the spies (4get pes) that need a tool and i think thats y kk introduced spirit mods. i guess giga want em more available but its in the game now kinda.
tbh its the ppus that need 2 get skills and some of us need 2 get skills buy not alwayz having a team or a ppu strapped 2 our asses 2 kill another it should be possible (not easy) 2 kill a ppu on yr own.
PS 500th post YAY
Maybe you just need to watch some spies with skill fight. A spy with skill can take down a tank. Not with PPU buffs were talking solo. And if there is a OP team with just spys that is just funny. Talk about a waste of a trip for the spy's.
Slaughter
I'm not gonna say that a spy can't take down a tank, but a tank with an equal amount of skill could easily take down a spy who had the same amount of skill.
slaughteruall
12-05-04, 21:05
I think someone inadvertently rose the real problem about ppu imbalance.
Maybe it wasn't clear enough for you. A good spy can kill a tank. Unless the tank has PPU buffs. It's not my fault that ppl require a PPU to do things. And not every class should be able to kill a PPU. Why dont ppl realize that. A solo PPU can not kill other class's (not like they used to be able to) so any class on there own should not be able to kill a PPU. Good PPU's wont die to just one APU. It's the bad ones that do die to one person.
Slaughter
Dribble Joy
12-05-04, 21:12
Maybe it wasn't clear enough for you. A good spy can kill a tank. Unless the tank has PPU buffs. It's not my fault that ppl require a PPU to do things. And not every class should be able to kill a PPU. Why dont ppl realize that. A solo PPU can not kill other class's (not like they used to be able to) so any class on there own should not be able to kill a PPU. Good PPU's wont die to just one APU. It's the bad ones that do die to one person.
Slaughter
I was being slightly non serious/sarcastic.
It was the effect of ppus that I was getting at.
PPU buffs (shields) are the problem, otherwise the combat between tank, spy, PE and apu is quite well balanced.
APUs will allways be the PPU killers. They are the class that has the insane defence/crap defence style. PEs are the other way round.
As a result, only APUs (or hordes of tanks/spies/PEs) will be the PPU killers, which isn't too bad.
Aziraphale
12-05-04, 22:39
Gatling rifles and other fast firing weapons that do force damage make good anti-PPU weapons.
Pain easer for example does quite well.
Energy weapons are just pointless though.
Anyway, I think spies are just dandy as it is, PPU's are the only class we aren't capable of downing.
Making spirit mods/bullets a little more widely available would be good though, not too much though. Make it a really rare drop, and the ammo could be like TL120 or something, so that only sexy recyclers can reproduce it.
I dont want to kill the ppu I want to kill the people he/she protects. I could give a rats ass about the ppu as a spy. Thats not my job. I say do the remote cast thing that Neocron has on shelter and deflector on the heal. So that if a ppu throws a heal on you or you do it yourself it will be the same thing, but it will be the equia...equial....damn difficult word..the same as a tl 3 heal. PPU`s will still have their self cast holy heals at full effect.
I`ve been in an op-fight at simmons where my team was inside the op and the attackers outside at the gate. I was in my rhino sniping at whatever presented itself. It was as if I wasnt even there. The attackers just got a holy heal going and everything was dandy. With people running in and out of cover and a few ppus there is no way any longrange character can make any difference from a distance. I couldnt do it in a rhino.
we allready have shit to do.... try playing on a 1 character server having your char be a ppu... its fucking boring.. dont make it even more shitty
i know a slasher spy that can kill anything solo .. then again he drugs to use shelter and has tons of psi use, but also lots of skills .. OMG OMG NERF SKILLS.
Put more of the Spirit Mods and Ammo on the market. End of story. Yet another half-ass implemented thing in the game :rolleyes:
Uhum what are spirit mods, what do they do and how do you get one of those.
tomparadox
13-05-04, 01:58
we allready have shit to do.... try playing on a 1 character server having your char be a ppu... its fucking boring.. dont make it even more shitty
no offence to this. but it was YOUR choice to make the char a ppu and you can easaly lom.
and its true a caped ppu with skill will not die easaly. iv had expirience i am a very good ppu and i very rarely die in a fight.
edit:
Uhum what are spirit mods, what do they do and how do you get one of those.
they are a special mod for the SH sniper rifle ( its a rare sniper rifle) and you stick the mod in thats droped by a GM thatsnipes. youy kill the GM and he gives you the mod and ammo i think. and what this mod and ammo do is when shot at a ppu it debuffs them. not completly i think it only takes off shelt though
Why does everyone think the only way to combat ppu's is to give more people the ability to strip our buffs? That's the absolute worst thing you could do to ppu's. The whole idea of antibuff disgusts me, which is why I'm against adding more ways to do it. A ppu's weapons are his heal and shelter, a ppu's pride is his ability to keep himself and others alive. Antibuff cleverly renders a ppu impotent. It's the same as if I had a spell that could jam your gun, prevent it from firing. In one move you're prevented from killing, which is what most combat characters take pride in.
I'm all for balancing ppu's, but antibuff is not the way to go. Adding more ways to strip our buffs just adds stress to our lives. The good ppu's will still dance around, rebuff, and be tough as hell to kill. Instead of just making the class less fun to play, they should be looking at reducing ppu's importance and boosting other classes' importance.
How can you advocate giving spies better antibuff capability and not call it a ppu nerf? Is that the only way spies can have any usefulness?
omfg you must be jacked in the head SPIRIT BULLETS STFU now nuff said kthxbye
Why does everyone think the only way to combat ppu's is to give more people the ability to strip our buffs? That's the absolute worst thing you could do to ppu's. The whole idea of antibuff disgusts me, which is why I'm against adding more ways to do it. A ppu's weapons are his heal and shelter, a ppu's pride is his ability to keep himself and others alive. Antibuff cleverly renders a ppu impotent. It's the same as if I had a spell that could jam your gun, prevent it from firing. In one move you're prevented from killing, which is what most combat characters take pride in.
I'm all for balancing ppu's, but antibuff is not the way to go. Adding more ways to strip our buffs just adds stress to our lives. The good ppu's will still dance around, rebuff, and be tough as hell to kill. Instead of just making the class less fun to play, they should be looking at reducing ppu's importance and boosting other classes' importance.
How can you advocate giving spies better antibuff capability and not call it a ppu nerf? Is that the only way spies can have any usefulness?
Exactly!.... amen car
I think that spies are rather useless in OP wars today. All they can really do is snipe and hack the OP. I propose that spies are made so that they can kill ppus. They should have anti shelter and anti deflector mods for weapons (perhaps like spirit mods, but more commonly available). This would make good use of spies and would help to stop people bringing loads of ppus to OP wars. What do you guys think?
This is the reason why ppus are needed as much as they are. KK listens to the people that want to make ppus lives harder. Thats all a nerf like this does. It doesn't solve the fact people bring ppus. If this nerf was added all it would do is increase the amount of ppus people bring. If you want to nerf a ppu nerf the ppus roles. Make it so a ppu isn't absolutey needed or you'll die. Thats all that needs to be done but it won't becuase ppus are kks answer to making other classes more useful by giving htem weapons to take down ppus.
Scanner Darkly
13-05-04, 07:40
To be honest all things being equal, a capped spy should not be able to solo a PPU, nor should one tank or one apu or PE. Still in the world of bugg-o-cron stranger things have happened.
It would be nice to make spirit mods into a very hard quest with something like a combo of a very rare strange book and a hard epic. But not as stupidly rare as they are atm. I mean a friend of mine has has the mod for months and cant get any ammo for it :(
Before I forget...fix the executioner O_o
adios,
sd
Dirk_Gently
13-05-04, 11:03
If you want to nullify a PPU cast Psi Shield on them and have one of your team shoot them. Not difficult ;)
Scanner Darkly
13-05-04, 12:38
omg why didnt i think of that
honestly :rolleyes:
Hope I'm not getting pwned at the nexp op because of this Gently, or I'm gonna get Holistic on your ass :)
geeets,
sd
slaughteruall
13-05-04, 13:40
If you want to nullify a PPU cast Psi Shield on them and have one of your team shoot them. Not difficult ;)
Didn't they all ready make PSI sheild self cast only?
Slaughter
I would say lower the heal ability the PPU has on other people.
With a PPU I can stand next to 2 (maybe 3) WB Titans and kill them all with a pain easer. My spy was only in PA1 but the PPU kept me healed and buffed while I took them down.
Either reduce the heal time (on other people) or the effectiveness slightly of the heal. But only when cast on someone else. The PPU is fine on their own. They should be hard to kill, but if they had to buff other people more often they would have less time/psi to keep their own buffs up...
I would say that a capped heal 3 effect would be enough.
Dirk_Gently
13-05-04, 14:11
Didn't they all ready make PSI sheild self cast only?
Slaughter
Haven't PPU'd for a long time so maybe.
go back to trade skilling you gimp... the day a spy can drop a ppu is the day im leaving...
I think that spies are rather useless in OP wars today. All they can really do is snipe and hack the OP.
AWhahah thats funny, all they can so is hack and op, isnt that the point of an op war ... to hack the opposing op to gain control for yourself, plus spys can stealth around and use their PE's and libbys to kill apu's and sometimes ppus, and sniping is teh fun so please think about what your going to post before u contradict yourself in your own speech :lol:
steweygrrr
13-05-04, 18:56
What about us poor people who LIKE PPUing? Not all of us find it boring etc. I like the rush of being able to keep my team alive in an op war situation or in the caves. I like it when I see someone on the brink of death and catch them just before the fatal blow is landed so they can carry on fighting. Please don't make that any harder than it already is?
CRAIG DIGGERS
13-05-04, 19:04
Didn't they all ready make PSI sheild self cast only?
Slaughter
yes they did :D
Haven't PPU'd for a long time so maybe.
They fixed that a long time ago, not long after it became widely used. PE's could even use it against us, it was a bad time to be a Monk. I recall one fight in which our non monks were fighting each other and the monks were zoning back and forth. As soon as they'd return to the fight, they'd get psi shielded and hafta run away.
Dirk_Gently
14-05-04, 02:16
They fixed that a long time ago, not long after it became widely used.
I wish they wouldn't "fix" logical parts of the game. Just have given PPUs a way of breaking it.
And also that they'd get more back to the idea of monks using Psionics rather than this D&D style wizard stuff we currently have.
Q`alooaith
14-05-04, 02:45
........ It's the same as if I had a spell that could jam your gun, prevent it from firing. In one move you're prevented from killing, which is what most combat characters take pride in.
...........
Thankyou, you've just given me an idea.
I wish they wouldn't "fix" logical parts of the game. Just have given PPUs a way of breaking it.
And how is exploiting a spell a "logical" part of the game?
Shadow Dancer
14-05-04, 03:12
It's the same as if I had a spell that could jam your gun, prevent it from firing.
Nope. First of all the ppu's defensive spells confer a special type of defense. Not like other classes. The ppu can literally be invulnerable to one person(or more) with their shields and heals up.
If their was a special "super" gun or something other classes had, that was like a super offensive ability, then your analogy MIGHT make more sense. In addition, you can rebuff. Quite quickly infact. The idea of someone's gun getting jammed once again doesn't fit as an analogy, unless they can unjam the gun quickly.
Dirk_Gently
14-05-04, 13:45
And how is exploiting a spell a "logical" part of the game?
If you had the spell in real life in the Neocron world you would use it for that purpose wouldn't you??? Thus it is logical.
it is already excisting
Spirit ammo... removes shelter ..
hope it will be implemented soon
spies can so as much damage to a ppu as anyone else.
not all ppus are god like, only the good ones, the others can be killed by any class.
if my melee dude can take em without resorting to nib buffs im sure spies are able to do it
i only have one issue with ppus, and that is para.
if the ppu is good more often than not i leave em not gonna waste my time and other than para nothing he can do to me, so i deal with the people who can.
maybe instead of wanting to kill ppus you should content with being capable of killing the other classes
Original monk
14-05-04, 14:24
Why does everyone think the only way to combat ppu's is to give more people the ability to strip our buffs? That's the absolute worst thing you could do to ppu's. The whole idea of antibuff disgusts me, which is why I'm against adding more ways to do it. A ppu's weapons are his heal and shelter, a ppu's pride is his ability to keep himself and others alive. Antibuff cleverly renders a ppu impotent. It's the same as if I had a spell that could jam your gun, prevent it from firing. In one move you're prevented from killing, which is what most combat characters take pride in.
I'm all for balancing ppu's, but antibuff is not the way to go. Adding more ways to strip our buffs just adds stress to our lives. The good ppu's will still dance around, rebuff, and be tough as hell to kill. Instead of just making the class less fun to play, they should be looking at reducing ppu's importance and boosting other classes' importance.
How can you advocate giving spies better antibuff capability and not call it a ppu nerf? Is that the only way spies can have any usefulness?
like always when it comes to these mathers, carinth seems the only one to think, instead of following the mainstream.
i must agree completely with everything said in above quote
why does everyone wonna nerf instead of boost ?
think its cause of precedents ... KK doesnt listen to people when it comes to boosting classes/ making em viable ... they prefer, as history tells, to nerf the class where everyone is whining about ... and the whinors know this also ffcourse ...
bah, explaining is useless here
you may continue youre antippu and antipara quests
lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala
(when ya get rezzed ya dont whine that much dont ya)
Dirk_Gently
14-05-04, 20:41
like always when it comes to these mathers, carinth seems the only one to think, instead of following the mainstream................
(when ya get rezzed ya dont whine that much dont ya)
I do understand what you are saying and I consider much of the PPUs powers to fit quite nicely with the storyline (Parashock as some kind of neurological/neuro-physiological shock is fine by me). My major bug-bear is with APUs, it's too much like "magic" than it is "psionics". I know alot of you don't see the difference but ultimately if wanted to go play a beardy fantasy thingy I would.
Just give non-monks a higher base Psi-Resist level so PPU spells aren't as effective on them and leave the PPUs alone.
Freaky Fryd
14-05-04, 22:17
And BTW get 2 spies together with certain weapons and they CAN and DO drop PPU's like rocks. One can almost do it but you have to reload the gun.
Agreed.
3 spies - 3 SilentHunters - 1 dead PPU (been there done that)
Then another one of their PPUs come over to rez him
2 spies - 2 SilentHunters - 1 PPU forced to stop rez or die (he was at "zero" health & had to stop the rez to cast a heal)
A PPU who knows what he is doing won't die to a devtank. The damage is easy to outheal, a HAPS/Cath Sanct will negate the stacks, a good shelter/belt will take care of the fire, hazard/ another belt reduces the poison effect and a heal santum just for overkill is nice too.
I was on a PPU, kneeling in between 2 high level tanks, being attacked by them (1 dev, 1 melee), and they couldn't get 50 health off me before it bounced back up to full. Even when my shelter/def ran out and my cath sanctum dropped, it was easy to survive (spent 10-15 minutes playing with them.) Now, when their APU came out of nowhere and debuffed me before he showed up on local, well, my suckiness came shiny through...
;)
(Holy Lightning = ouchie)
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