View Full Version : LVL 4 PAs
hi
was woundering if ever possible [other then PE pa 4] Will the other classes be able to wear there lvl4 pa because I like the purple PA think me PPU would look good in it :lol:. Was woundering when doy eventually arrives will there be new imps and shit so that this will be made possible. At the moment me PPU have DS,psi core, def 2 and 3 [also -30sl but we wont go into that :)] and still have no chance I surpose if I put in a memory 3 and exp 3 then I may will countless ammousts of drugs. Was woundering if we will be able to ever wear it with out nerfing ourselves or having major drug flashes all the time? anyways should be fun post any pics if u have then ppl never seen APU pa 4 :D anyways could someone please add info if u have any on new imps and shit or things like that. :D
My SPY can drug to use spy PA4.
Doesn't stick on tho :(
yeah I know m8. I see u with it the other day I wish there was a way of making it stay on but hopefully that will be sorted in Doy [Can but hope] also I helped u get to the lvl where u could use it :) [Delenn] anyways anyone got a pic of APU 4 please I want to see it never have as yet :D anyways back to work :lol: [joke in its self]
PA4 was always intended to be for teh drugg0rz only ;)
I'd assume that the items associated with the new wisdom of ceres skills will give some sort of boost.
There was a topic many many moons ago where someone from KK replied and said that the level 4 PA's are in the game atm for a reason. He went on to say that we will be able to use those PAs in the future.
If I remember correctly... which I probably don't... Originally Tank PA4 was STR 155 when first released?
And if I am remembering correctly... that reply was written around that time and Tank PA was the only PA.
Prolly gettin my shit mixed up again... but the topic and subsequent reply did exist.
yet apu's and ppu's can only do it with rare drugs????
yet apu's and ppu's can only do it with rare drugs????
Fix is on the way, see last Testserver Patch Notes :)
Cal...
Just while I got ur attention.
Are there any plans to review the PA requirements?
ATM I find that 135(insert base skill here) is too Much for any class to maintain. without going into my setup too much I need a rare Item, and 3 drugs to put PA4 on my spy. Then 2 drugs to maintain it.
I'm assuming that PA4s are to aid runner's combat effectiveness... but the micro-management is unbelieveably annoying atm just to remain in that state. Not to mention that your runner has to give up combat implants in order to reach the current 'druggable state'.
Personally I feel that 125 or up to 130 is more of an acceptable level.
Would you consider taking this up with KK with the intention of reviewing them based on the current gaming state?
For Info: My spy is fully capped and uses an MC5 chip
v[ortice']
If I remember correctly... which I probably don't... Originally Tank PA4 was STR 155 when first released?
u r remember correctly, tanks couldnt use PA4, just the yellow PA3, with rare drugs and stuff.
Cheers Lexxy ur a Star mate.
Tried searching for that thread but can't find it :(
hi again
well it looks like drugs are me for both me 2 ppus and me apu then. :( but still should be fun to muck around with me setups a little. oh well with the new drugs take it they are shop brought things like the rest or just another mob drop hopefully not so rare as the others. anyways ty ppl still need a pic of the apu pa 4 :) please i know what the tank one looks like [wants the days with the gold pa that looked good well I think anyways].
The picture in this thread should be APU PA4
http://neocron.jafc.de/showpost.php?p=1375390&postcount=7
Freaky Fryd
10-05-04, 13:45
100 DEX -- Base DEX
+6 DEX -- Rigger's Dream
+6 DEX -- Synaptic Accelerator
+5 DEX -- Dex Booster/Exp Reflex Booster 4
+5 DEX -- SF/SS/Motoric 3/Mind Control 3/Special Rigger/Balance 3
+5 DEX -- SF/SS/Motoric 3/Mind Control 3/Special Rigger/Balance 3
----------
127 DEX
+5 DEX -- Recycle/Repair/Construct Machina Glove
+3 DEX -- Serumderibat
----------
135 DEX
Put on the PA 4 (+8 to DEX)
Take off the glove
As long as you don't zone it will stay on
:D
(I'm not saying it's the best combat setup...but it's possible to keep spy PA 4 on without drugs :p)
PA4 was always intended to be for teh drugg0rz only ;)And why is that exactly?
I've only seen PA4's in Plaza for showing off (been there done that :p), because once the drugflash hits you during combat you might aswell /set kill_self 1 if you can see what you're typing.
Yet Pe's can wear em without (too much) gimpage
True, but while we can hang around in Plaza 1 in out mighty black lobster suits, we cry when people ask us what its does.
EDIT: Love your sig, n3m!
@cMz...
That's a crap picture mate in fairness.
@Fryd
I know how to make the PA stay on... but to use one of those permeatations would severely gimp my character mate. ATM I'm 127 DEX with PA3... and 132 DEX with Const Glove. I feel that is more than enough to warrant the next PA level. I don't mind drugging it on as long as it is to an acceptable level. But when you take into account the fact that I have to take the glove and the PA off to wear the new PA and use my weapons it's a major drugs headache.
Basically I feel drugging up that much for PA4 is far too much. Look at the Tanks and the Monks... they have to severely drug up after loads of gimpage with their IMP setup (no backbone for monks ^^) just to come close.
Imagine standing round at an OP fight waiting to be attacked... it's just not viable to use:
A. that setup while your waiting and...
B. to deal with major drugflash during a fight.
As it stands PA4 is just an RP Item and KK should look into bringing them into play at this stage especially while people are complaining about lack of content. Even lowering them by 5 levels (more for tanks and Monks) would make it more viable for all classes in combat.
EDIT: Consistency.
Clownst0pper
10-05-04, 15:07
PA 4 stays on isa, with one red flash, the thing is tho, because she is a droner, I can be droning, and the drug runs off, so i cant take another to keep the PA on, meaning i then have 2 use my glove and 2 more drugs when my drone goes back to port V_V
all I am tryinf to sate is its damn annoying that PEs can wear there nice black pa with not alot of gimpage and yet us poor monkeys dont stand a chance at the moment. And as for the drug thing what really was the point in bring the things into the game in the first place comeon :lol: . I hope with the introduction of Doy that we all can have the choice to wear the stuff with not to much gimpage [like PEs can now]. I better stop the whineing or someone is going to bitch. :P anyways thx for the response guys still need a GOOOD pic of apu pa 4 please :) if one exsists.
Clownst0pper
10-05-04, 15:51
@ Callash, Wearing PA 4 as a monk is still impossible.
- Added new drug "Havenin". Adds PSI+3
- Added new drug "Dolinskin". Adds PSI+4 PSU+12 IMP+12, removes WEP-15
- Added new drug "Nightspider". Adds PSI+5 PSU+20 IMP+16, removes WEP-20
These 3 new drugs when all taken at once, and with a Psi core +5 PSI, DS + 6 psi, Exp psi controller 3 +5 PSI, and Attack3/Defensive3, +3 PSI (there are no other + psi implants)
U will still be short by 3 PSI, unlike other classes we do not have backbones which give to our primary skill, and a smaller choice of implants in comparison to DEX based users, and the selection of str based implants/spines/drugs allow for tanks to use PA 4, without major gimpage.
So again, whats the use in PA4 for monks :mad:
that is really waht I was trying to say we carnt use it at the moment. Im not saying remove it just at least give us a chance to actually use the thing :lol: . that would be nice but hay hopefully soon :)
Well PA4 is useless for PPU as it is now. The gimpage to wear it regarding the PPU bonus and the AGL malus is not worth it. And you can capp your spells with PA3, no point in wearing PA4 except for the showing off on plaza, sure.
Go to swamp caves, do some killing to get the rare drugs, buy more drugs, mem3 , have fun 10 mins, ask your friend to take screenshots and voilą. :)
@ Callash, Wearing PA 4 as a monk is still impossible.
- Added new drug "Havenin". Adds PSI+3
- Added new drug "Dolinskin". Adds PSI+4 PSU+12 IMP+12, removes WEP-15
- Added new drug "Nightspider". Adds PSI+5 PSU+20 IMP+16, removes WEP-20
These 3 new drugs when all taken at once, and with a Psi core +5 PSI, DS + 6 psi, Exp psi controller 3 +5 PSI, and Attack3/Defensive3, +3 PSI (there are no other + psi implants)
U will still be short by 3 PSI, unlike other classes we do not have backbones which give to our primary skill, and a smaller choice of implants in comparison to DEX based users, and the selection of str based implants/spines/drugs allow for tanks to use PA 4, without major gimpage.
So again, whats the use in PA4 for monks :mad:Hmm.
PSI Core (5)
DS (6)
Exp-Psi 3 (5)
Psi Memory 3 (5)
That totals 21
+12 from the new drugs
As well as another +5 from Kri'nakh Mushrooms
Equals +38
Or 3 more then you need for the PA. In fact you don't even need to use the Havenin.
EDIT:
It's definitely not viable for normal use despite that though; the specific implants you need would generally cost you more APU/PPU then you get from using the PA 4.
slaughteruall
10-05-04, 16:01
Kri'nakh Mushroom INT+10 PSI+5
You can do it with 4 drugs. Which is fricken insane. And it adds 8 to PSI so you can keep it on with just these 2 drugs.
- Added new drug "Dolinskin". Adds PSI+4 PSU+12 IMP+12, removes WEP-15
- Added new drug "Nightspider". Adds PSI+5 PSU+20 IMP+16, removes WEP-20
But 4 drugs and one being a rare is just not practical at all. Maybe 3 we really need a PSi backbone or something to fill the void.
Slaughter
dont you need some of the drugs the Laurents used to drop. Tiger Blood for STR and another for PSI? I can't remember exactly as I'm still fuzzy from the drug flashes.
slaughteruall
10-05-04, 16:06
Hmm.
PSI Core (5)
DS (6)
Exp-Psi 3 (5)
Psi Memory 3 (5)
That totals 21
+12 from the new drugs
As well as another +5 from Kri'nakh Mushrooms
Equals +38
Or 3 more then you need for the PA. In fact you don't even need to use the Havenin.
That is just a gimp setup. There is no reason to gimp yourself that much just to use the PA4. With that setup you would lose out on the +25 APU/PPU bonus and 10 PSU. To gain only 15 PPW. And the point to do that would be what?
Slaughter
edit
dont you need some of the drugs the Laurents used to drop. Tiger Blood for STR and another for PSI? I can't remember exactly as I'm still fuzzy from the drug flashes.
They dont drop anymore. So unless you have some laying around you cant use them. It was cresent tab.
That is just a gimp setup. There is no reason to gimp yourself that much just to use the PA4. With that setup you would lose out on the +25 APU/PPU bonus and 10 PSU. To gain only 15 PPW. And the point to do that would be what?
Slaughter
It's just as gimpy for spies and tanks to equip their PA 4. The only exceptions to this rule are PE's; mostly because they generally use many dex boosting implants anyway, thus don't need to get rid of too many other implants with other uses. Even then, their PA 4 is only viable for specific kinds of PE's, judge or libby PE's can't/don't use PA 4 either, and generally have better defences than a PA 4 PE.
But 4 drugs and one being a rare is just not practical at all. Maybe 3 we really need a PSi backbone or something to fill the void.
Slaughter
PA4 is meant for the heavy druggies. Simple. Take the drugs.
What would is needed is the Intoxication counter to indicate what drugs is being taken. This used to be the same problem with PSI spells, but we have unique identifiers for the spells now, so it can be done for the drugs. Then necking four pills would be less of a problem.
tomparadox
10-05-04, 16:08
PA4 was always intended to be for teh drugg0rz only
nope. a PE can use one with takeing one drug then when it wares off the PA stays on.
they should move PE PA 3 up to 115 hahahaha see them gimp up to that then
Clownst0pper
10-05-04, 16:10
My calculations were based on not being completely whacked out gimped.
which, is not possible, it should be, but it isnt :(
slaughteruall
10-05-04, 16:14
It's just as gimpy for spies and tanks to equip their PA 4. The only exceptions to this rule are PE's; mostly because they generally use many dex boosting implants anyway, thus don't need to get rid of too many other implants with other uses. Even then, their PA 4 is only viable for specific kinds of PE's, judge or libby PE's can't/don't use PA 4 either, and generally have better defences than a PA 4 PE.
Alot of spies i know that drug for PA carry a Recycle glove with them or in there gogo to counter act one drug. And with the INQ setup that is all you need to use it.
Also you said it's the same for tanks. EVERY take uses a Moveon and PP chip. The PP chip has Zero STR bonus. And they can still use PA 3 with out drugs. If a monk uses a PP chip they have to drug for PA3. It's because tanks have a STR backbone. So if a Tank had all STR imps in they dont need 4 drugs to put PA4 on. So it's not at all the same for other classes.
Slaughter
so at the end of the day we will need a backbone to be able to use the pa. Well heres hoping they bring one soon. :D. I do remember the larrent hover things but I was too much of a nib when they were about so could never get to hack on for the nice druggies. oh well :( . anyways some pics ppl please :)
Freaky Fryd
10-05-04, 16:30
Crescent Tabs give:
Intelligence + 13
PSI-Power + 7
(as per: http://nc.synergyxr.net)
It's because tanks have a STR backbone. So if a Tank had all STR imps in they dont need 4 drugs to put PA4 on. So it's not at all the same for other classes.
Slaughter
Maybe this has something to do with the resists each cape gives to each class, and not just a question of whether a class can wear a particular level cape just because they should. I don't know. Does anyone?
Ps. Good ol' Cresent Tabs ;)
Alot of spies i know that drug for PA carry a Recycle glove with them or in there gogo to counter act one drug. And with the INQ setup that is all you need to use it.
Also you said it's the same for tanks. EVERY take uses a Moveon and PP chip. The PP chip has Zero STR bonus. And they can still use PA 3 with out drugs. If a monk uses a PP chip they have to drug for PA3. It's because tanks have a STR backbone. So if a Tank had all STR imps in they dont need 4 drugs to put PA4 on. So it's not at all the same for other classes.
SlaughterI was specifically referring to the 4th level PAs; not to any problems existing with the lower level ones. Which is why the first line of my post read "It's just as gimpy for spies and tanks to equip their PA 4." ;)
With just as gimpy, I also mean that using a setup which uses PA 4 is in all cases weaker then a setup using a lower level PA; not specifically that one class requires more or less drugs to use PA 4.
Tank :
Base : 100
Marine : 105
Berzerk 3 : 110
Hercules : 116
Move ON : 119
HardenBackbone 3 : 124
Beast : 129
X-Strong : 133
Thyronol : 136
PA 4 (str 135) : 144
Nightshade : 154
= Capped STR, a little gimped imps, 3 drugs, mc5 chip = PA 4
Monk :
Base : 100
Psi Core : 105
Experimental Psi Controller 3 : 110
Dimension Splitter : 116
PSI Memory 3 : 121
Nightspider : 126
Dolinskin : 130
Havenin : 133
Mushrooms : 138
PA 4 (PSI 135) : 146
= Capped PSI, gimped imps, 3 drugs, 1 rare drug, 1 mc5 chip = PA 4
SPY :
Base : 100
Special Riggers Interface : 105
Mind Control 3 : 110
Synaptic Accellerator/Riggers dream : 116
Special Forces : 121
Experimental Reflexbooster 4 : 126
Redflash : 131
Whiteflash : 135
PA 4 (DEX 135) : 143
Serumderibat : 146
= Capped dex, maybe gimped, 2 drugs, 1 mc 5 chip= PA 4
(Can use a lot of alternative implants to adjust skills and bonuses)
PE :
Base : 80
Balanceadvancer 3 : 85
Special Forces : 90
Experimental Reflexbooster 4 : 95
Mindcontrol 3 : 100
Motoric 3 : 105
PA 4 (DEX 105) : 111
= Capped DEX, a little to not at all gimped imps = PA 4
(Can use a lot of alternative implants to adjust skills and bonuses)
Monks are getting totally screwed over, it would be a FAIR sacrifice for monks if you left the PSI bonus on the current drugs, then they would have gimped implants, mc5 chip, and 3 or 4 drugs to use pa4.
Pretty close, Naimex, pretty close. PE PA 4 gives +5 DEX not +6, so you only get 110 DEX with a setup like that. Still, the idea that PE's dont have to use drugs to use PE PA 4 is true. Granted, If you wanted to use the PE PA 4 without drugs you're going to encounter some problems (no space for PP or Move On among other things) but it *is* possible.
I guess I'd better make the most of my Silent Hunter while I can, then.. I'm sure its only a matter of time :/
EDIT: If nothing else, I think Monks should get PSI spines giving +1, +3 and +5 to PSI.
PE PA 4 only gives +5 ??
everywhere I“ve seen it gives +6
yeah i thought it was +6...
Nope, just +5 I'm afraid. The bonuses awarded by the PE PA are less than those offered by the PA's of other classes for a number of reasons.. and I'm sure one of them is compensation for the lower tech level / requirements.
By jove (?) he's right looky here nc.synergyxr.net/list.php?cat=armor (http://nc.synergyxr.net/list.php?cat=armor)
of course i knew all along, just testing naimex :p
PA4 is meant for the heavy druggies. Simple. Take the drugs.
What would is needed is the Intoxication counter to indicate what drugs is being taken. This used to be the same problem with PSI spells, but we have unique identifiers for the spells now, so it can be done for the drugs. Then necking four pills would be less of a problem.
WTF?
Zii man necking four pills is fucking impossible to maintain.
Like I said before... my spy needs 3 drugs... he doesn't have the 'ub3r stay on PA4' setup.
Once the first 2 drugs run out.... I get flash... and considering they run out after like 2 and 5 minutes it's pointless.
I take anotehr Whiteflash... Flash goes away... then both the White and Red wears off after another 5 minutes... major Flash... totally unavoidable... PA4 falls off.
No point whatsoever... the purpose of my comments earlier was to highlight the fact that PA4s (with the exception of PEPA4) are nothing but RP items.
Bring em into play is what I say :)
Well what do you know ^^
1246
Tangent Close Range Battlesuit V 10
75
Chest Armor
Piercing: 26
Force: 24
Energy: 18
DEX: 2
Pistol Combat: +6
PSI: -1
Mental Steadines: -2
DEX: 75
RUN
10.0
1247
Tangent Close Range Battlesuit V 20
80
Chest Armor
Piercing: 29
Force: 26
Energy: 22
DEX: 3
Pistol Combat: +8
PSI: -2
Mental Steadines: -4
DEX: 80
RUN
13.0
1248
Tangent Close Range Battlesuit V 30
90
Chest Armor
Piercing: 32
Force: 28
Energy: 26
DEX: 4
Pistol Combat: +10
PSI: -3
Mental Steadines: -6
DEX: 90
RUN
16.0
1249
Tangent Close Range Battlesuit V 40
105
Chest Armor
Piercing: 35
Force: 30
Energy: 30
DEX: 5
Pistol Combat: 12
PSI: -4
Mental Steadines: -8
DEX: 105
RUN
19.0
just looked in my item database..
he“s right.. it only gives 5 dex
I don't mind having to take drugs for the PA4, that's acceptable...
...but MC5 chips should not be required.
Also bear in mind the penalties on the armors. Tank PA4 for example has a -30 ATH penalty. Monk PA4 is the worst though - make a setup for PA3, then adjust for PA4 and notice how you now have less points available. The increase in requirements isn't matched with a worthwhile increase in bonuses.
I have made a Tank PA4 setup which I would use if I had a Herc, if Beast loses its AGL bonus though then it won't really be worthwhile, since I'll lose defence without gaining much offense to make up for it.
Look what we started :rolleyes: :
German Thread (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=98579&page=1&pp=15)
Seems the Germans have had something to say on the issue too.
Maybe someone who can speak both english and german could do a bit of a summary for us?
Maybe Callash could come and add more comments to our thread too?
Cheers.
@Naimex: Thx for all that mindless drivel mate... you don't know how much all those PEPA stats contributed to this discussion :wtf:
What Callash said on that German thread is just that while you get WoC skills by gathering experience on your main character statistics, getting a level up in them will actually give a level in the WoC version of that stat, not in the normal version.
As an example:
You've got 100 strength, and (with BDoY) you now gain a level in it.
You'd now have 100 strength, and 1 WoC-Strength.
This was in reply to someone stating that WoC would make PA 4's normally equippable.
Apart from that, the discussion there is basically the same as the one in this thread.
Heavyporker
10-05-04, 17:58
I dearly believe that all PA4s (even PE PA 4) should have HUGE bonuses to compensate for insane reqs.
I have an idea.. make PA4s have NO NEGATIVES! Yes, you heard me. No negatives.
Another idea would be to make PA 4s give 2x the subskill bonuses (as in, if apu pa 4 gave +15 apu before, it gives +30 apu now)
@J.Folsom:
Cheers mate.
@Heaveh: I wouldn't be opposed to such changes (not lowering requirements) if they gave such fantastic boosts in the short term. Monks would still need a backbone IMO.
I wouldn't mind some new backbones that give no malus.
Really pisses me off when I have to lose points in one skill to gain in another :/
I've never gotten a hold of a crescent tab, but here's some pics of a Laurent and one of the psi mod we got on it. The first pic is me in ppu pa4, very sexy! Until drug flash hit me and the PA fell off. This was taken during a short period when PA4 had a req of 130 PSI, which was possible to obtain, unlike 135 PSI. Due to the gimpy implants *and* constant drug use, PA4 makes you significantly worse then PA3. It's unfortunate, since it's evidently the only pa4 that's not Black. I really liked the purple, but alas it's only for strutting around in plaza. : (
Callash, I know pa4 is for druggies, but what exactly does that mean? Is the constant use of drugs supposed to be a viable way to play? Drugs don't exactly last that long and the drug flash you get the longer you use them is pretty severe. I don't think I know anyone that lives on drugs 24/7. If we're not supposed to be constantly on drugs, then are we expected to run around with our pa disabled? I suppose if we know we're goin into combat we pop a few drugs to turn it back on, then hide when we get the drug flash? If we're expected to actualy do that, then PA4 definitly needs to be beefed up.
Callash, I know pa4 is for druggies, but what exactly does that mean? Is the constant use of drugs supposed to be a viable way to play? Drugs don't exactly last that long and the drug flash you get the longer you use them is pretty severe. I don't think I know anyone that lives on drugs 24/7. If we're not supposed to be constantly on drugs, then are we expected to run around with our pa disabled? I suppose if we know we're goin into combat we pop a few drugs to turn it back on, then hide when we get the drug flash? If we're expected to actualy do that, then PA4 definitly needs to be beefed up.
Hear fucking hear.
Like I said earlier... the current situation and as I expect it to be with the 'new' drugs is not really acceptable in a PvP situation.
I really would like KK to review this whole situation. Even if they don't decide to change it It still warrants being looked at imo.
slaughteruall
10-05-04, 19:42
v[ortice']Hear fucking hear.
Like I said earlier... the current situation and as I expect it to be with the 'new' drugs is not really acceptable in a PvP situation.
I really would like KK to review this whole situation. Even if they don't decide to change it It still warrants being looked at imo.
They should get a group of players together tanks/spy's/monks on the test server. And have ALL of them drug up for PA4 and have them attack/defend a OP. Sit back and laugh once no one can move because of the drug flash. Then they might understand what we are saying.
Slaughter
PA4 was always intended to be for teh drugg0rz only ;)
hmm had a theory on pa 4 becoming a wisdom of ceres type deal when BDoY is out, guess that ain't happening :/
Fix is on the way, see last Testserver Patch Notes :)
As I see it, you can only get to 133 with non rare drugs
and thats with all the gimp-o-trollers poked.
Actually PEs can get 112 dex without drugs (I'm doing that now). That's 1 serumderibat (+3 dex drug) from all the high-end rifles and pistols. And it's SH without drugs. :) But the resists are worse than a druggie spy's, and you get a lot worse damage on SH/FL/Dis (around 150%). The setup also requires 2 MC5 chips. >.< But then again, you get enough dex to put on PA4 without drugging it on.
so 112 + redflash (5) + whiteflash (4) + serum (3) = 124 dex with all drugs. 129 if you include a glove. But realistically, PEs have the ugliest PA by far, so they deserve to use it.
what? 2 MC5 chips O_o
and how do drug spies have sucky resists? dont they drug up for shelter, making them have waaaay better defence?
Why are people still harping on about PEPA4 and chip setups for them?
This thread has fuck all to do with them.
slaughteruall
11-05-04, 14:43
what? 2 MC5 chips O_o
Yep 2 MC5 SA and a RD.
Slaughter
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