VHC-Artillary

[Clive tombstone]

OK, I haven't posted in a while because I've been a little busy with a combination of work/College/City of Heroes :D . But here's something I found kind of interesting after spending an entire day of playing BF 1942 Desert combat. Where the heck is the Indirect fire Vehicles? I mean Come on. Thankfully, Im not attending the art institute of california so now there is a possibility that I can actually Produce some models of vehicles possibly ^^

Any who, heres the ruff "BP"

-Name-Undecided (thinking Avalanche or Basilisk)
-Speed-(Moderate-slow)
-Seating-3 (1 driver, 1 main cannon gunner, light machine gunner turret "for self defense-
OR
-Seating-1 For Pilot/Main cannon gunner

-Cannon specs-
-Damage-Heavy
-RoF-Slow-Very slow (decided upon for balancing issues)
-Aiming type -non recital-
"note" the catch to this is that the cannon cannot be aimed lower than a 15 Degree angle, leaving it completely vulnerable at close range.
-Ammo type-Still wondering what I would use-whether it be laser cannon ammo (so munitions animation can be replaced with the artillery turrets munitions animation, to save up on CPU usage) Or, a solid round type (much like a Howitzer, but new attack and munitions animations would have to be made or, possibly use hover bombers "bombing animation" for munitions animation)

Cannon control
-moving cannon (or cannon turning speed) would be moderate to slow for two reasons
a> this would remove a sense of an unreal artillery system, as large scale to medium scale artillery systems are not lightning quick.
b> Slow and medium movements allow a focusing or concentration aspect to the process of aiming itself.

Firing style-The munitions will be arc Fire-as a direct shot would defeat the purpose of it being called an artillary piece.

Range- as long as the clipping plane can hold it IS artillary after all(hopefully more with DoY)

Purpose and use
-Base assault support-Used as attack support towards a target, the main cannon can be used to "soften" up targets within an OP or "fixed" area.
-other uses in this category are fairly self explanatory-

Monster hunting support- Once again, support work is the name of the game, and remember, you never see an artillery piece on the front lines.

Piloting Requirements-Debatable- I would say somewhere below a Rhino and above a assault trike. but that's just my opinion

Gunner Requirements-Also Debatable-Ill leave it up to you guys to decide this.

Damage Resistance & Durability- Moderate -Somewhere between trike and Rihno. or rihno and Troop carrier.

Parts needed to build- I would say just to make things interesting, maybe one VCH 10 (supposidly Being the hull) two VHC 9s (for Chassy parts) four VCH 8s (for wheels) one VHC 7 & 6 (cannon parts) and maybe one VHC 5 (Aiming and Pilot control systems)

I hope you guys like this idea, I dont know if you will or not, I just like vehicular combat, and adding Indirect fire would spice things up a bit in my opinion. On anouther topic, I wont be getting my moddling software for a while, so ill just have to send in ruff sketches when I get my scanner (later this/ next week)

Please vote and Give stars, its the only way KK will take notice
Thank you for your time. :angel:

[iainy13]

I like it, but i know it will never be added. kk have enough to do for the next 6 months without adding somthing else. i always wanted to see somthing like this in the game though.

[Cytaur]

I'd really love artillery in THIS game... artillery requires so much teamwork and coordination -- I love it

[Clive tombstone]

Glad you think soo^^

Remember people, Vote AND do a star rating Thats the only way GM take notice

PS pics are comming allong nicly I just need to know if the cannon should be a long barrel or short thick barrel

[Heavyporker]

combat wheeler car is grenade launcher vehicle. The grenades are AoE.

[jiga]

I think that if we had artillery that we would have to have a map with a crosshair on it for aiming

[Clive tombstone]

As I do Relize that the CC is a AoE weapon/vehicle... it sucks as it is

This is supposed to be a TRUE form of artillary, not a medium-shortrange Gernade lobber.

As for controls and aiming, well, I dont know enough about the variables in the game engine to make any real modifications. I kinda wish I worked for KK so i could learn more about there engin, but Se la Vi you know.

(Edit) Please Put star Rateings! please! Devs/Gms WILL take notice if they see stars :( . I mean come on, iM beggin you guys.

second note, Long or medium short barrel. which one?

[Cytaur]

artillery is something that would fire from one end of the map, to the other, or at least two thirds of the map... Also artillery is the backbone of the army. You'd think the piece is going to unbalance the game, well think again, a droner armed with a quickbelt full of rare kamikazes is basically an artillerist already. Now if you make a vehicle that tosses grenades over long distances, considering you'd need a spotter that corrects your aiming... Damn I'd love this machine.

[MkVenner]

sweet idea, the length of the barrel depends on the width, is its gunna be prett chunky then short barrel would look best imo, tho if its gunna be more thinner then longer would be better

[Marx]

Arti = win

[Clive tombstone]

Alright, I got some good ideas then, ill have those pics up asap, Long barrel sounds cool, all do a short variation too.

as for people voting no, Id like to hear a reason, and not just a simple vote and leave. Please?

[Cubico]

I would love this new vehicle also, voted yes and gave this thread 5 stars.

[No Style]

I would really like to see such an vehicle, in my opinion it should be firing the same kind of projectile as the arty-turrets, including radiation stack damage so the 3 single shots minimun rule doesn't apply.

[ou7blaze]

If the individual zones were larger and OPs were larger and server supported as many people and special effects in the area :rolleyes: then I think it's a good idea :D

But......this is neocron, not Battlefield, this is the future it's different...

Anyways a nice idea ;)

[Clive tombstone]

Very good point outblaze^^ I have to aggree partially, I know this ISNT battle field, but weapons of war never change, sure they take different form, but the principals stay the same you see :D I got the first drafts finished, and IM going to copy club to get them scanned (or to my good for nothing friend who has a scanner im planning to steal :lol: ) Anywho, Im glad I am getting this much feedback on this idea. Its helping allot with the development of the vehicle itself.

One more thing, anyone wanna suggest a name? just for the hell of it :D

PS: Gm's if your reading this, can you ask the devs what there opinion is on this so i can get a better understanding of what needs to be done? PLEASE? im begging yah :)

[Ransom]

Nice idea, but you couldn't call it a Basilisk- you may have some copyright issues :lol:

To get arround the problem with the clipping range, perhaps the targetting would be controlled by a drone or another runner on foot with a laser guidance system?

Ransom

[Clive tombstone]

Nice idea. with the drones ^^

umm how about How about Long-bow or something like that

[Cytaur]

no, clipping range doesnt matter... the whole purpose is for the gunner to fire, and the spotter to correct gunner's aim...

[seraphian]

first of all Basilisk? someone's a warhammer 40k fan...

second, a big part of modern warfare is fire support/air support. They're adding one, they should add the other.

it would expland OP wars to be more than just 6 players in the same courtyard hacking away. having indirect support would force the defending team to go offensive to get to the guy in a mobile howitzer raining 4.05in plasma shells on them, it would also give scout characters something to do.

You'd have to balance it out so that you can't take an OP with just artiliery though... so you can't shell the living bejesus out of it and then claim the rubble.

[Clive tombstone]

True, there is some truth to "Shelling the BeJesus Outa them". Are ARE some ways that this could be counter-acted. One have a scouter/stealther finding the Artillary, 2, useing the bases underground base as a mode of pertection till they can co-ordinate an effective counter-attack/Call in reinforcments/Air support/ DeV tank+glued PPu :D .

Hmm, as for more names, Aries or Crawler would be interesting I guess.

As for the drawings, Im trying to make the designs as simple to program as possible (seeing how I have no access to any modeling software/;software skills :eek: ) I have put this artillary weapon into Horizontal (side, front, back) and Top and bottom, But getting every detail will take about 2 more days to half of this week. All in all its comming together smoothly.

The only thing I can see that would be hard as of doing artillary would be calling in artillary, and designation of targets within, and beyond a clipping plane. It sounds hard to program and im not sure how to go about doing it within the confines of the NC game engine (especially since I have no training in useing it :p )

Need names >_< and opinions

(edit) Ps I was a Warhammer fan lol. Its just that its really hard to think of a name for a piece of artillary that hasnt already taken a good name >_<

[enigma_b17]

if all the wasteland sectors were turned into one artillery would be awsome, huge battles across such a huge area would be sweet

[bounty]

would be cool if spies could use a weapon to help the artillary cannon guy aim, think tribes and their aiming laser.

[StryfeX]

Yes! Artillery rocks, 'nuff said.

--Stryfe

[seraphian]

Solution to the problem of clipping plane and designating targets...

allow a Foreward Observer (FO) to 'call in' artillery strikes. maybe even have radar guided or laser guided munitions that allow an FO to 'paint' a target.

Second, I was thinking while I was at work today, and I realized some things about the "shelling the ever-loving Bejesus" problem. First of all, real war can work like that... just look at WWI, second, as long as you make the stuff have a scatter range and large AOE you can't attack while you shell. The only problem is that AOE goes through walls, preventing people from taking cover like anyone with sense does in a real mortar attack. So you'd have to define a new munition type that doesn't AOE through walls (like a beam cannon ammo effect without the drawn beams)

[Cytaur]

Solution to the problem of clipping plane and designating targets...

allow a Foreward Observer (FO) to 'call in' artillery strikes.



wow you sure dont read the replies... i stated this TWICE already

[slaughteruall]

Sweet idea. 5 stars.

[Clive tombstone]

Alright, Im comming down to the little design quirks.

1-Treds (chaincraft) or Wheels(wheeler) ive ruled out that having a hovering artillary platform is... well Im guessing you guys know the answer.(having a turret on a hover tank would double it as a Weapons piece/Unintensional Purpolsion system :D)

I like the imput from you guys so far, its very good! I hope that a Mod takes a look at this and gives his imput on it.

as for cannons im designing, 1 of them is sorta a howitszer/ contruction crain design youll see what I mean later today) and the other is a energy/rail gunish thingy (maybe to better associate the artillary turret munition animation.)

whichever this is. Im enjoying this project. Its good practice for designing :D

EDIT-one thing that I wish I knew how to program was sound effects into munitions so there could be that "tell-tail" sign of when your about to die :D

one other note I would like to have a opinion is should it be 1-2-3 seats?

[slaughteruall]

I think it should be 2 seats. Unless you want to make a tank(maybe PE) drive/gun it. Dont like 3 seats it's not a passenger vhc.

I would also go with treads for the larger one. And maybe wheels for the lighter one. Unless your making the smaller one look like it weights a TON. Then tracks all the way.

Slaughter

[Clive tombstone]

I had some plans to design a Cyber-punk Anti-air buggy so ill leave wheels outa it, the only artillary system i know that uses wheels anywho is a scud platform, and I aint using missle as ammo.

so Chaincraft it is, 2 seats, long barrel, the length of the actaul vehicle is somwhere the same as the apc (the length is needed to compensate for the cannon mount itself) 2 sets of treds (like a rhino) I wonder though

I see that pilots and gunners are most of the time exposed to the field (for balancing reasons I supposed "Clive imagines his trike has a hardtop :D"), SHOULD the pilot and gunner be exposed? I dont think the pilot needs to, and the gunner is going to be well.. Ill post the picture when i get to my scanner today.

Edit: the WHOLE point of this little shin-dig is to pitch the idea to KK, I guess. Of course there will be some things that would (or will, since im optamistic :D) be changed for balancing/grafical/cosmetic reasons. but what we're (yes, US) here is trying to make the most practical, reasonable form as possible, I mean, how is it so far fetched anywho, Cigaretts are gonna be in game :lol:

[slaughteruall]

Maybe have the drivers head just poke up a little bit from the body. And maybe have the "gunner" sit to either the right or left side of the barrel. Both targetable but the driver should be really hard to target.

Slaughter

[Cytaur]

No, I should be the following:

3 seats:
Driver / Gunner / Passenger (the spotter)

One big ass barrel (like those soviet nuke carrier trucks with rocket on the side).

A hover artillery ? Thats ridiculous, it would fly back so far, your head be spinning.

Wheels ? Maybe, but threads yes! Not the stupid 4x4 caterpillars, but regular 2x2

[giga191]

i h8 vehicles where drivers/gunners are exposed. Theres always a HL apu who is there to hide behind a hill and kill u

[Cytaur]

i h8 vehicles where drivers/gunners are exposed. Theres always a HL apu who is there to hide behind a hill and kill u


yeah, artillery should be armored like rhino... so bring on those anti-vhc launchers

[Clive tombstone]

Ok, "contained" it is. Ill have the drafts finished soon. im working on them right now. They may not be the BEST vehicles ive ever designed (I am NOT a vehicle designer, so much as I am weapons/mechs/Male/female artist. BUT it will have to do. Ill have the stuff posted in maybe 3 hours. PLEASE NOTE I dont have photoshop because it costs too much >_< so if anyone wants to take a wack at some of the pictures, BMG Ill have concept designs finished. then ill work on the "blue print" after speculation

PS I hate HL monking on me when im in vehicles >_<

lol too bad para dont do crap to me when im in me trike (Missle spams PPU =P, Dies when Glued tank takes out CS :lol: )

EDIT (In the beggining I asked for people to post WHY the vote no, please for those people who did I would Like to hear your critisism, and I gladly accept it soo I can help us reach a comprimise)

[manderf]

If the individual zones were larger and OPs were larger and server supported as many people and special effects in the area :rolleyes: then I think it's a good idea :D

But......this is neocron, not Battlefield, this is the future it's different...

Anyways a nice idea ;)
havent you ever read dune???? they use old artillery in it to defeat the newer shield things.(forgot because i am a retard)

[Clive tombstone]

I dont remember the names of the vehicles myself, but I think one of them was a rocket artillary vehicle. anouther one was a siege tank named promptly "siege tank"

[Clive tombstone]

Ok I know it isnt very good, but its the best I got (since I spilt coffee on the last copy :mad: ) a little paint shop modifications to make it a little clean, but what teh hell I guess, beleave me Ill have better. Just gimme opinions, and I can improve it. its what the people want, not just what I do :D http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/15779/Artilllary.JPG

Edit-heres one I drew in about 5 mins, just to get a feel of the entire construct.http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/15779/updated.JPG

PS the second was just something I was drawing a little while ago, to tie the whole idea together, im not very good with angular projections so the cannon/turret may look akward, just ignore it please and think about the concept instead :D

[Cytaur]

It needs a bigger cannon to have a "scary massive" look :) Otherwise - nice
It should be named like Mammoth or Obelisk o_o

I can already imagine this piece rolling in the zone and like the earth's shaking... and then loud BOOOMMMM sounds - someone somewhere is going to get a nasty surprise.

[Clive tombstone]

The only problem with "a bigger cannon" is the fact that you just get more unrealistic as you go longer and thicker. if the cannon is longer, it looks like its wieghtless, if you keep it to a medium length, it makes a much more presentable and beleaveable artillary weapon. yet, I doo see what you mean, I nEED more IMPUT!

(edit) about the scare factor, the onlything that SHOULD be making your enemy loose bowel control should be the thundering AoE damage smacking them around inside there OP (well that and possible bad-ass sound effects Psshhooooooooooom "silence" BROUGHHHHHH!!!! AHAHHH MY LEGS! "snickers thatll learn em)

PS Ill try harder on next picture :D

[StryfeX]

Personally, I think it would look better if it had a longer muzzle, but also make it slightly thinner. Some of today's mobile artillery could serve as a good template/example.

--Stryfe

[slaughteruall]

What would be sweet would be exhaust ports near the muzzle. And everytime you fired it would send a cloud of gas backtowards the gunner. It would also help hide the noise in the direction your firing. It would just rain death. They would not hear the first shot just the explosion at there feet.

Slaughter

[Clive tombstone]

ok, I can do that, simple as pie.

now. anything about the body or things of that sort that should be changed? ill do a BP after I finish the draft

[slaughteruall]

Nah body is pretty much fine. How tall is this thing going to be? Rhino size or moe like a chaincraft?

Slaughter

[Clive tombstone]

little inbetween, I was aiming for APC size, see how thats a good hight for it, OR go a little taller. but thats up to KK if he takes The idea in. ill get to work on the new cannon soon

[StryfeX]

little inbetween, I was aiming for APC size, see how thats a good hight for it, OR go a little taller. but thats up to KK if he takes The idea in. ill get to work on the new cannon soonYou might think about going in a half-track direction, with (longish) tracks on the back half of the unit, and two wheels on the front, under the driver portion.

Or you could go fully wheeled. I know mobile artillery today is meant to be mobile (duh) and therefore move fast, but it does this at the expense of heavy armor, making it quite vulnerable to tanks and other heavy weapons.

It's basically meant to shield the crew from small arms fire. In the case of Neocron, it should probably be totally enclosed, but less armor than a Rhino. And maybe different resists.

--Stryfe

[Clive tombstone]

Hmm, I was trying to be orginal as far as the body went, I didnt really want the body to resemble anything (from RL). I gave it a sorta Rhino/APC feel because of NEXT probably being the developer of the vehicle IF it is produced.

I do aggree a halftrack would be interesting, yet, I dont really wanna make a sorta BF to Neocron "rippoff" no offence.

true, a "wheeler" artillary system would be interesting, I could make a veriation today using thick wheels in place of treads.

On a side note, I have come accross some other designs while I have been incredibly board at school (funny how boardom is the greatest inspiration to create :D )

on anouther note as a side project, I was working on a Anti-air combat "wheeler" all though, it wouldnt have the "sporty" feel of the other wheelers. It is more like a kind oh cyber truck/humvee/SUV. Im still working on the designs. GOD I want to get hired for a game company >_< I got about 3 more years in the institute till i get my bachelors sooill have to wait :mad:

but Hey, Im having a great time I guess :D

PS-sorry for going off topic like that ^^

[Clive tombstone]

Ok, the wheel variation is almost finished, but as for the time being. I found these pics to help with the decission of an artillary barrel herehttp://www.3mhis.com/us/home_leisure/printscape/images/artillary.jpg

and here
http://www.neguard.com/unit/110/may_files/artillary1.jpg


I also found anouther variation of cannon that I thought you guys might like

http://grunt.space.swri.edu/ksmuseum.jpg

And Finally, the american Crusader artillary tank (still under development guys)
http://www.uniteddefense.com/media/graphics/crusader-10.jpg


WIth these pics, gimme some info on what you like, what is needed, what should be changed and make it as accurrate as possible, it makes the chance of this getting in game MUCH better

[Cytaur]

Crusader was cancelled last year... so is Comanche this year (or last)


So yeah the NC artillery should look like crusader, but not total copy. It should have the 2 caterpillar thread chassis (like paladin/crusader) with driver inside. Then turret should look like the SCUD truck - with cabin on the side and the cannon on the other... a big ass cannon too !

[Clive tombstone]

well then, guess i have the right idea going, REMEMBER I must have 2 sets of treds on this vehicle so when crossing terrain, it doesnt look akward (imagin a Rhino with one set, crossing a pothole-is-landscape)

the barrel type like that Asian artillary weapon or like the crusader.... I cant choose >_< you guys wanna choose for me?

[Genesis]

I don't think artillerys would work in this game

[Freaky Fryd]

Rifle spies would have another use by shooting a laser for the artillery launch to hit...
:D