View Full Version : Reakktor - Meet your Client base
Maloch Octavia
06-05-04, 02:33
I've been with Neocron now since more or less Retail release. I don't class myself as better or less than Beta and Pre-Beta Players. I view it that I came into the game at a point where things were more realistic.
However, Retail release was a long time ago, and I've seen many changes, and participated in many things. From being a Clan Leader, Faction Counsellor, NeMa Vice Editor, and even at one point, a mini-Events Staff (The ol' Regants Fortress raid in the name of NeMa, fabby event that was).
I've given days of my life to Neocron, in many different ways, and as such, I have formed various opinions on how things are run, how they are operated, and I think this applies to the rest of us.
So I think it's time for us all to air our opinions, observations and views.
You could class me as a Neocron Fanboi, but I don't think I am anymore. Not that I'm disillusioned, it's just that after experiencing everything the game has to offer, and having sat on both Player and Staff side of the fence as far as game interaction goes, you see more than you need to. It's akin to buying a new game and using the cheats for it on the first day, it takes away the magic.
So my observations and opinions:
1: Reakktor does not reassure its Community that it is listening.
- Reakktor have made changes to the way Neocron is run. Some of it is in direct relation to various spam campaigns :) on the Forums, others are internally based. All being said and done, I do not think Reakktor tell us enough that they are paying attention to us. I was once the biggest advocate of 'Reakktor is listening' but regardless how much you know it to be true, a word or two goes a long way.
This is different from listening to us, I might add, I simply don't think they're letting us know they are paying attention. As long as they acknowledge our comments, opinions and spam campaigns, is more than enough, they don't neccessarily need to listen to them.
2: Too little is being done about the small things in the game which could be resolved quickly and without interruption, if only someone was set to task on it.
- This covers everything you've ever thought of, that made you think 'Why is that still there/not working/missing?' from several spelling mistakes in various item names, through to things like the Notice Boxes in your Apartments, popping up every time, instead of once and once only.
The little changes can make a big difference, and round off an otherwise smooth product. Whilst I agree, it's far from perfect, and there are more important scheduled tasks that need attending, better to deal with individual small faults now, than a backlog of issues later.
3: Reakktor know that something needs to be done about the Server issues, but are either putting it aside for the time being, or are reluctant to share information with us on the subject.
- By this, I am referring directly to Server Populations and Server Stability. Having gone from Pluto to Saturn, Pluto is a desolate wasteland, everywhere whilst Saturn suffers a continual lag and instability issue. Obviously, Reakktor are paying Level3 good money for these servers, and perhaps it's time to cut costs.
The fact is, this matter isn't being debated enough, nor maturely enough, by anyone. Reakktor so far isn't getting involved, and rightly so, because one wrong word from where it matters, can send flocks of headless chicken running around screaming lament and woes. However, the issue does need to be addressed. Four servers are simply too many to sustain, even with B:DoY and what it may bring. One Four Slot German Server, two Two Character English / Mixed Servers. Ideally you would remove the German server, it's not only racist and segregating (Not my view, but could be construed as such) but a fully mixed server, would be so much more interesting I think, and certainly an enlightening experience for many. Having played on Jupiter, I have found a very good Community there, why hog it to themselves!? :)
With the money saved from cutting a server, it could be put towards developing and furthering world content. Thus keeping the increased server populations occupied, and removing the issues of over-crowding. Outpost Wars would also become far more brutal, as long as proper changes were implemented.
4: Reakktor does not charge enough for a monthly Subscription.
- £5.50 for one months subscription? Please, pathetic. That extra £5 would make a huge difference, and no-one can miss £10 or $17 a month. As I said before, go wash ten cars at two bucks apiece.
5: Reakktor needs to look harder at Brainport
- Some wonderful ideas are made in Brainport, and never get taken any further, even the very simple ideas, like a 'Drop All' button would make such a wonderful difference, Especially a 'Transfer All' button for Inventory to GoGo or Cabinet. Wonderful, pleasing, simple.
True, not all ideas are feasible, or workable, but starting small, you can make amazing changes to gameplay by doing the simplest of things. Researching for example. Why can't we stack Datacubes in the Process window until the slots are full? Don't make it do it any quicker, let it take the same time as if you did eight seperately, but at least give us the chance to avoid getting RSI and walk away for a cup of tea. I achieve nothing by sitting for thirty minutes, moving cubes back and forth, I really don't. So time would not be changed, but physical strain on the Client would be. A big vote winner.
I have more, but will muse further.
Overall, Reakktor is a good company, considering its size. They have brought to us, a game unique in its kind, and an enjoyable one at that. If a bit more time was spent on the smaller things in life, everything could be a lot better. The game simply needs polished a bit more, to make it really shine.
Please, air your own observations, but make them clear and concise, and mature, or keep them to yourself.
This, by the way, is about Reakktor, not about removing Para, or adding this feature or that, it's your views on Reakktor as a company, and what they need to work on within themselves.
I dont know about the monthly fee, I guess that's why people get attracted to the game, cool game with low costs. Would be sad to see it go away. :rolleyes:
I dont know about the monthly fee, I guess that's why people get attracted to the game, cool game with low costs. Would be sad to see it go away. :rolleyes:
It wouldn´t really bother me if it was a bit more expensive, but I am afraid I would demand more if it was.
So to avoid that state, I would prefer it being the same.
But to keep me away from this game... You gotta use far stronger means.
Shadow Dancer
06-05-04, 03:12
I agree on all counts.
I also wish they would say something about pluto's population. It's a bit disheartening to me, because it seems like they don't give a damn that pluto is a wasteland. I've stopped playing because of the population problem. I wish they would at least let us move our chars.
4: Reakktor does not charge enough for a monthly Subscription.
- £5.50 for one months subscription? Please, pathetic. That extra £5 would make a huge difference, and no-one can miss £10 or $17 a month. As I said before, go wash ten cars at two bucks apiece.Nooooooooooo
I have 3 accounts :(
I like the cheapness, and i also would grudge having Pluto turned into a 2 slot Char server.
4: Reakktor does not charge enough for a monthly Subscription.
- £5.50 for one months subscription? Please, pathetic. That extra £5 would make a huge difference, and no-one can miss £10 or $17 a month. As I said before, go wash ten cars at two bucks apiece.
Yes well its nice for you british to say " ohh 5 pounds, thats nothing" im a rich british person! ohh look at me im british... and can afford 5 pounds... cos im british...
But.. for us others, like the poor people in Australia, whom have to pay MORE than is listed by reakktor, NOT LESS LIKE YOU. Then we have one thing to say : FUCK YOU for putting ideas into their head... you pay 5 pounds, we are paying 15 dollars....
You do realise, 17 pound works out to close enough to $35 dollars here! you thyink we should pay $35 per account per month? your trying to stop anyone but the rich british and americans playing arent you?
Yes well its nice for you british to say " ohh 5 pounds, thats nothing" im a rich british person! ohh look at me im british... and can afford 5 pounds... cos im british...
But.. for us others, like the poor people in Australia, whom have to pay MORE than is listed by reakktor, NOT LESS LIKE YOU. Then we have one thing to say : FUCK YOU for putting ideas into their head... you pay 5 pounds, we are paying 15 dollars....
You do realise, 17 pound works out to close enough to $35 dollars here! you thyink we should pay $35 per account per month? your trying to stop anyone but the rich british and americans playing arent you?
....17 pound... 35 dollars......
atm it´s :
Monthly Payment: 9.95 USD
Three-monthly Payment: 24,95 USD
Six-monthly payment: 44,95 USD
That means :
60 danish per month
150 danish per 3 months
270 danish per 6 months
When I played SWG the price was :
120 danish per month
EVE was :
150 danish per month..
And neither SWG nor EVE came even close to what NC is.
We´re paying NOTHING to play this game !!
And it´s the best there is..
How can you possibly complain about that.
1: I agree, KK's community involvement is pretty much nil.
Lupus was nice, but he wasnt a KK employee, and now his project seems axed.
2: Again, I agree. There are still annoying, small bugs/errors that have been their since beta. And even if posted here, nothing happens.
3: MJS is doing a dodo, he posted recently saying how BDOY would see server numbers larger then EVER before, he is ignoring the present and putting all his eggs in the future.
I hope BDOY is as good as promised, I doubt it but I hope.
But if BDOY doesnt go well, KK has alienated its ENTIRE current playerbase.
4: I'm afraid I have to disagree here.
Graphically wise, even looking at the BDOY screens, neocron is still very dated.
Combined with low player numbers, and low in game events/storyline, an increase in subscription would make things even worse(if that is possible)
5: I agree here, but I'm afraid KK have shown, that they really arent THAT interested in an idea, unless it's extremely simple to do.
Good post :)
....17 pound... 35 dollars......
atm it´s :
Monthly Payment: 9.95 USD
Three-monthly Payment: 24,95 USD
Six-monthly payment: 44,95 USD
That means :
60 danish per month
150 danish per 3 months
270 danish per 6 months
When I played SWG the price was :
120 danish per month
EVE was :
150 danish per month..
And neither SWG nor EVE came even close to what NC is.
We´re paying NOTHING to play this game !!
And it´s the best there is..
How can you possibly complain about that.Eve is $14.95 or €14.95 for 1 month
3months is €35.85
6months is €65.70
btw, saying "And it´s the best there is.." is just a fanboy comment, cut it out.
It was the best there is, at retail.
Almost 2 years on, sadly it's nowhere close
*double post, pls delete.*
btw, saying "And it´s the best there is.." is just a fanboy comment, cut it out.
It was the best there is, at retail.
Almost 2 years on, sadly it's nowhere close
...I haven´t seen a better game yet, so per my reality it must be the best, I pay to play the game, it cannot be played unless i pay, so it must be worth it, otherwise I wouldn´t be here, and yes, I am a fanboi. And I intend to stay that way.
Now I´ll go back to sleep again... *curses whatever keeps waking me up*
...I haven´t seen a better game yet, so per my reality it must be the best, I pay to play the game, it cannot be played unless i pay, so it must be worth it, otherwise I wouldn´t be here, and yes, I am a fanboi. And I intend to stay that way.
Now I´ll go back to sleep again... *curses whatever keeps waking me up*Ok, fine, it's your favourite game.
Saying "We´re paying NOTHING to play this game !!
And it´s the best there is..
How can you possibly complain about that."
isnt "per your reality", it's
A) plural
B)talking about the community in general.
Agree with everything u said maloch except the part about having jupi seperate is .. racist? i have been playing jupi for the last 4 or 5 months ever since certain politics on pluto made it practically unplayable except for those people the polotics benefitted and i ahve found that the community is not full of assholes everyone is helpful almost everyone speaks english or at least understands it and everyone is there to PLAY the game not WIN it
....17 pound... 35 dollars......
atm it´s :
Monthly Payment: 9.95 USD
Three-monthly Payment: 24,95 USD
Six-monthly payment: 44,95 USD
That means :
60 danish per month
150 danish per 3 months
270 danish per 6 months
When I played SWG the price was :
120 danish per month
EVE was :
150 danish per month..
And neither SWG nor EVE came even close to what NC is.
We´re paying NOTHING to play this game !!
And it´s the best there is..
How can you possibly complain about that.
Yes, right now its nice!! i dont mind paying $15 per month!! FFS dont you get it!!? to more than double the price cos some british guy doesnt mind paying a little more... the raise for you americans and british isnt so bad! ohh goes from 10 to 15 dollars per month.... well um your extra $5 or 5 pounds works out to close enought to $10 here, if not more...
You make some excellent points. But with regard to an increase in the monthly fee ... nope, not until KK improves the quality of its support, the number of fixes per month, and the number of functional enhancements per year. So far all of those have been pathetic. Their performance is far worse than any other MMORPG I have ever played.
I would gladly argue that I am already not getting what I am supposedly paying for. But if KK *does* at some point get their act together and starts doing the job properly, then I will be instantly willing to pay a monthly fee appropriate for what they deliver. Until then, no thank you. A price increase right now, without such improvements, would probably be the "last nail in the coffin" for me and I would leave.
Spook
[ edited ]Damn man. First off, don't mention names. (Even though I happen to agree to some extent on that choice.) Second, would everyong just put their dicks BACK in their pants and quit trying to see whose is bigger? FFS, I'd like to see some intelligent conversation and discussion about this, not flames about who's richer and what not.
Now, off rant and on topic.
1, 2, 3, and 5 are EXCELLENT suggestions. As for number 4, I think I'm going to have to side with Naimex on this one. If I paid more, I'd definately be expecting more. It's not like I couldn't afford it though.
--Stryfe
Damn man. First off, don't mention names. (Even though I happen to agree to some extent on that choice.) Second, would everyong just put their dicks BACK in their pants and quit trying to see whose is bigger? FFS, I'd like to see some intelligent conversation and discussion about this, not flames about who's richer and what not.
Now, off rant and on topic.
1, 2, 3, and 5 are EXCELLENT suggestions. As for number 4, I think I'm going to have to side with Naimex on this one. If I paid more, I'd definately be expecting more. It's not like I couldn't afford it though.
--StryfeActually naimex was a proponent for increasing the cost, it's megacorp you mean.
Actually naimex was a proponent for increasing the cost, it's megacorp you mean.My bad. *Editing*
No, actually I agree with Naimex.
It wouldn´t really bother me if it was a bit more expensive, but I am afraid I would demand more if it was.
So to avoid that state, I would prefer it being the same.
But to keep me away from this game... You gotta use far stronger means.
--Stryfe
I'd like to see some intelligent conversation and discussion about this, not flames about who's richer and what not.
--Stryfe
OK if you have a good bussiness model and provide a high quality service to your customer and your client base is growing then you can raise price due to your demand.
This is not the situation KK finds itself in.
KK is not providing high quality service, due to patch delays, broken promises, parashock, server stability and lag.
KK has a client base that has dropped fast since doy delay. More are leaving then coming to the game so its still dropping.
So the bussiness model they have now is hold price and soak as much out till doy arrives and evaluate what the status is after that. The first month may indeed bring a bump in client base but if doy is as bugged and problematic as past work, then indeed that player bump will drain off and we will be right back in the hold pattern of soak as much cash off this pup till the plug.
So raising price is not even on the table. I would consider it an insult and a clear mark that KK has zero idea of how to run a bussiness.
The idea around the KK camp should be to improve service/quality of game to bring and retain players. That means a major push to remove crashes and bugs. This may be a big part of doy but we will wait and see. If i crash more then a few times in the first week and it doesnt get sorted in the next week or so after that then myself and many other will toss in the towel on this pig.
Nice post - I feel exactly the same. except for the monthly cost. Higher cost = less players.
They really need to work on their communication. how hard can it be?
John_Ravenhawk
06-05-04, 10:24
all i want is a more mission based and event based system... If they did that
I would have a big smile.
I agree with points 1, 2, 3 (to some degree, that is there are server problems, not sure about that solution tho) and 5.
As for point #4 - I would gladly support an increase in the price of the game IF the issues were sorted, and NOT until. Neocron is a game with MASSIVE potential, moreso than nearly any other project ive looked at since I found it, and if it reaches such a potential the price would be more than fair.
Im praying BDoY will bring neocron to its larger potential, even if only by bringing more players in.
What can I say, Stick with it KK.
I also wish they would say something about pluto's population. It's a bit disheartening to me, because it seems like they don't give a damn that pluto is a wasteland. I've stopped playing because of the population problem. I wish they would at least let us move our chars.
I found this on the German Forums from MJS (translation courtesy of Babelfish), though all it says is KK are aware of the problem:
Yep... Pluto is dead. But "Prime" is between 22:00h and 22:30h. The substantial reason for death of Pluto is however the Saturn server (on that many Plutorianer have changed). On that are for the moment (around 1:50 to) approx.. 250 players on-line. And around 22:00 (peak) on-line were over 300 people alone on Saturn. And today Saturday is not... Sunday. Thus today many are on the way and make for party (if they are more clever) attempt here times not the facts to rotate.
Here's the link: http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?p=1365294#post1365294
DigestiveBiscui
06-05-04, 10:48
Yes, right now its nice!! i dont mind paying $15 per month!! FFS dont you get it!!? to more than double the price cos some british guy doesnt mind paying a little more... the raise for you americans and british isnt so bad! ohh goes from 10 to 15 dollars per month.... well um your extra $5 or 5 pounds works out to close enought to $10 here, if not more...
1. stop being a racist shit
2. I'm british, you got a problem with brits then take it elsewhere
3. I have 2 accounts. I'm not rich, it's about time u got it out of your stupid little head that if you are british you are automatically rich and can afford everything you want. Jesus if i could - you think i would be here?
Go back into your hole
Now onto topic - a merge of servers imo will not really fix anything, most people don't want it...so if it happens, you will probably lose more people than you gain
Yes well its nice for you british to say " ohh 5 pounds, thats nothing" im a rich british person! ohh look at me im british... and can afford 5 pounds... cos im british...
But.. for us others, like the poor people in Australia, whom have to pay MORE than is listed by reakktor, NOT LESS LIKE YOU. Then we have one thing to say : FUCK YOU for putting ideas into their head... you pay 5 pounds, we are paying 15 dollars....
You do realise, 17 pound works out to close enough to $35 dollars here! you thyink we should pay $35 per account per month? your trying to stop anyone but the rich british and americans playing arent you?
Are you completely retarded?
Seriously, are you?
Do you have the slightest idea how much it costs to live in Britain?
Get real, get a job, age 10 years, THEN whine on an online forum about something you know a LITTLE about.
For now, just shhh
Yes well its nice for you british to say " ohh 5 pounds, thats nothing" im a rich british person! ohh look at me im british... and can afford 5 pounds... cos im british...
But.. for us others, like the poor people in Australia, whom have to pay MORE than is listed by reakktor, NOT LESS LIKE YOU. Then we have one thing to say : FUCK YOU for putting ideas into their head... you pay 5 pounds, we are paying 15 dollars....
You do realise, 17 pound works out to close enough to $35 dollars here! you thyink we should pay $35 per account per month? your trying to stop anyone but the rich british and americans playing arent you?
LMAO - I assume this guy was being droll?
Finance 101 - Exchange Rates. If 1 GBP ~= 2 AUD
Cost of items in Britain largely reflect this. We pay 10 GBP for a DVD, you pay 20. If we get paid 100k GBP a year, you get paid 200k AUD a year.
Only difference is you've got a government who taxes your arse off (yes, even more so than us poor brits).
/Nid's edit - lol, I went to edit out a flame and couldn't find it to edit - had me confuzzled for a second there. ;)
darknessfairy
06-05-04, 11:49
I agree wholeheartidly.
a) KK does not, by any means at all, communicate half as much as i would expect them to.
They have delayed DOY, for vaild reasons, but there are alot of unanswered questions....see here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=98305) ... Now surely, as KK knows that the players have been somewhat disappointed by the delay, they would try their hardest to make sure that they are satisfying them in everyother way...
Which leads onto my next point...which is kinda two of malochs points together...Server population, syncs, bugs, and things to be fixed. How about KK try their hardest to fix these things, and maybe there wont be so many
Hi Im leaving
Thread closed. Take it to PM's.
The number of leaving threads that i have seen lately, is quite frankly, disgusting. And its not because of personal problems (no money, no time etc) It's because people are gettin pissed off. I'm sure KK notice these things, but they do nothing to pacify(sp?) people. Even if they said "we're looking into it" i think people would feel alot better about it all.
Hmmm what was next? Server merges. Yes hmmph, i must say i only play one server (uranus) and it's population varies... I personally wouldn't have a problem with server merges, but this one is down to the community. KK have to realise that there is a problem, and if they do realise it, and im goin back to my first point here, they should tell us that they do. So KK, put a poll up, make it sticky, make it bold. Make sure EVERYONE see's it, and votes. If the majority say no, leave it. If the majority say yes (and it would have to be a big majority) then make another thread about WHAT servers to merge. KK will have to do it with customer support, otherwise, unfortunately, page one, two and three of the forums will be flooded with with leaving posts or posts flaming KK about it prolly ending up with them quitting anyways.
Costs: I agree with Naim (excuse me if it was wrong person, im on a roll, i cant stop to look back) I would expect more. Yes it is a very cheap game to pay for. I agree with that, but i think tbh, we are paying for what we get. So raise the costs, by all means, but i want proof that the game has significantly got better, otherwise, im afraid KK wont be getting my money. Again that is something that i think KK will have to play around with, alot, and also discuss it with the community, to see whather its viable or not...#
Aha the last point. Brainport. there are some wonderful people out there that are so talented... Take for example Bramtops. He has created NCLPro (with help). Now i couldn't play with out that. I love it. Now he is only one of the amazing people out there. Kk should work WITH their customers. I think alot could be achieved if they did, but again, regardless of whether they notice that people are giving good suggestions, they still don't acknowledge it.
Kk have the right frame of mind, but it's not fully developed yet. They could go a long way with this game, if they did things right. Start by talking to us, please. You are losing alot of customers.
Erm excuse spelling, and whether ive covered other peoples points, but when i start to type i can't stop :p
/me breathes out
the original post was a most excellent and, in some ways, brave post. very balanced, pragmatic and dispassionate. i agree in every way with what was said, although it seems some folks missed the point to a degree.
i remember saying a while ago that i'd support an increase in the sub fee if it would help the game, and i still stand by that. provided, of course, the money went to help the game, and not line someones pockets. it seems a little suspicious to me that venus gets more content, events and paid GMs, when it is a single server with a not particularly spectacular number of players, and yet none of the same occurs on KK servers.
i'd like to see some of our more visible and hard working volunteers get paid for their time.
and saving money by ditching a server? sadly, yes - why not trim the fat? i've never played on pluto, but still i'd be very sorry to see it go - however the pragmatic thing to do would, surely, be to pull the plug. i don't see how the server will ever recover. such things are a self fulfilling cycle - folks leave because the population is low, so the population goes down, and so folks leave because the population is getting even lower. and so on. everyone has a cut-off point, and when the population is only 15 to 20 people at peak times, even the hardcore will give up.
KK has said that pluto is needed when BDoY boosts the population again. but i doubt if the population will really jump to such a great extent. population explosion was also predicted when we started the 10 day trial, and that largely failed to materialise either.
but even when new players arrive, which server will they choose? by september, at the current rate of decline, i doubt if there will be more than 40-50 people logged onto pluto at peak, so where would YOU choose to start your neocron experience?
ultimately though, i have absolutely no idea why the game isn't doing better. i, personally, am a very hard person to please, and yet i play this game every day, for the last 2 years. i'd never played an MMORPG before, and i haven't been tempted to try any others. NC is still the best thing i have ever done on a computer, and i've been using, playing and working on and with computers for 20 years now.
it's a total mystery - yes the game is bugged a little, and has rough edges, but the gameplay is second to none. to me, this is why i started playing games. first there was wolfenstein, then doom, then half life, then deus ex, and now this - NC stands at the crown of all these things. it doesn't necessarily do any particular thing significantly better than those games, but it certainly gets more of them right more often, and in the same package, and in a persistant world, and it actually works.
tell you what: pull pluto. then ask us if we'd mind paying a little more per month - say around just 1 or 2 quid even. then ask us if we wouldn't mind eschewing the free month with BDoY. if we agree to all this, promise to put ALL the extra money saved/earned into an advertising campaign - a real one, in papers and maybe even on TV. i cannot believe that, if people really got the change to hear about NC, they wouldn't want to try it.
make the game a little easier to play. increase drop rates, make things like MC5 chips obtainable (difficult, sure, but possible) by the masses. ensure that "carebear" features such as LEs and so on are respected and not eroded by the bleatings of the hardcore. not a lot to ask, but enough to ensure that new players who come into the game do not give up and leave. it's time to reassure the current playerbase that changes need to be made to make life a little easier for new players, because that and ONLY that will save this game.
Excellent post.
1: Reakktor does not reassure its Community that it is listening...I do not think Reakktor tell us enough that they are paying attention to us...a word or two goes a long way...I agree completely. Communication is very important. There have been many important threads on these forums where people have taken hours to express their well formed opinions and rarely does KK participate in the discussion.
2: Too little is being done about the small things in the game which could be resolved quickly and without interruption, if only someone was set to task on it…The little changes can make a big difference, and round off an otherwise smooth product.I was thinking this same thing today. We could all come up with a list of ridiculously simple bugs that are never addressed. One of my personal favorites is the trade window bug, where items are dumped back into your inventory. Worst of all, the items are scrambled as they are dumped into your inventory. Why is there not a button when you loot a mob to discard all or destroy all so you don’t have to drag a dozen items to the ground. Why can’t we organize the GR list? We have all tried to poke a helmet into a brain slot after a death as items change their appearance. Why can’t the apartment cabs hold their full capacity? And on and on.
3: Reakktor know that something needs to be done about the Server issues, but are either putting it aside for the time being, or are reluctant to share information with us on the subject.
- By this, I am referring directly to Server Populations and Server Stability. Having gone from Pluto to Saturn, Pluto is a desolate wasteland, everywhere whilst Saturn suffers a continual lag and instability issue.This issue is more complicated. The lag and stability on Saturn, however, does need to be addressed immediately. I began playing on Saturn about a month ago after giving up—albeit temporarily—on Pluto, and the difference in lag/stability between the two servers is incredible. I can’t believe Saturn has put up with it for this long.
Merging servers and dealing with the inevitable laundry list of problems that would arise is not what KK needs to be worrying about now. The situation on Pluto is sad but I do not think anything will change until the expansion is released. Every MMO, regardless of how good, will have a certain number of people quitting simply because it is time for them to move on to a new game. The problem with Neocron is that there is not an influx of new players to replace them. Granted, there is also a major problem with a lack of high-end content.
4: Reakktor does not charge enough for a monthly Subscription.I have four accounts so this would not be a welcome change to me. If Pluto was made into a two slot server then I would agree.
5: Reakktor needs to look harder at Brainport
- Some wonderful ideas are made in Brainport, and never get taken any further…not all ideas are feasible, or workable, but starting small, you can make amazing changes to gameplay by doing the simplest of things. The brainport section should become the place where we talk to KK. It should be stringently moderated. Anyone spamming, posting off-topic, or flaming should immediately be banned from that section. It should be a place where intelligent discussions and suggestions on improving the game are held.
Overall, Reakktor is a good company, considering its size. They have brought to us, a game unique in its kind, and an enjoyable one at that. If a bit more time was spent on the smaller things in life, everything could be a lot better. The game simply needs polished a bit more, to make it really shine.Agreed. It’s a great game. Unfortunatley, KK is going to have to step up their efforts. There are 5-6 major MMOs being released this year with great graphics and incredible depth of content. MMOs are becoming like many other businesses where it is nearly impossible to remain competitive as a small company.
It does seem that they are aware of this. They have a new partner, which was probably done to bring in more capital, and they have a deal with a major publisher. What I am surprised at, is why with this new capital they did not immediately increase their staff by 50% or more? They need more people fixing the bugs, polishing the game, adding content, and getting the expansion done sooner. What was the point of getting an influx of capital investment if you don’t use it to expand and improve your capabilities and performance?
ultimately though, i have absolutely no idea why the game isn't doing better. i, personally, am a very hard person to please, and yet i play this game every day, for the last 2 years. i'd never played an MMORPG before, and i haven't been tempted to try any others. NC is still the best thing i have ever done on a computer, and i've been using, playing and working on and with computers for 20 years now.I just had to say that this comment mirrors my feelings as if I had written it myself.
1. stop being a racist shitSince when is "British" and "American" examples of race???
Okay, back on topic:
1: Reakktor does not reassure its Community that it is listening. - Reakktor have made changes to the way Neocron is run. Some of it is in direct relation to various spam campaigns on the Forums, others are internally based. All being said and done, I do not think Reakktor tell us enough that they are paying attention to us. I was once the biggest advocate of 'Reakktor is listening' but regardless how much you know it to be true, a word or two goes a long way.This is such a small thing, I am not sure why its worth mentioning. You acknowledge this isnt about doing what the community wants... but instead just TELLING the community that its listening.
First thing that pops into mind is- how often should they do this? Just make a generic statement once a week? That would hardly mean anything. And they cant stick their head in on every suggestion post and say "We have officially read this thread and hereby acknowledge your idea"... and if they acknowledge some ideas but not others, that will just lead to irate posters.
I think if they did have a way to acknowledge every idea posted, that will just lead to more frustration when a new patch comes out and that idea is not implemented.
Now I agree it would be nice to see acknowledgement- I just dont see a realistic, practical way for them to do it where it wouldnt just piss people off more. If I was running a business, I think I would find it easier and safer to not make such acknowledgements.
2: Too little is being done about the small things in the game which could be resolved quickly and without interruption, if only someone was set to task on it.
- This covers everything you've ever thought of, that made you think 'Why is that still there/not working/missing?' from several spelling mistakes in various item names, through to things like the Notice Boxes in your Apartments, popping up every time, instead of once and once only.
The little changes can make a big difference, and round off an otherwise smooth product. Whilst I agree, it's far from perfect, and there are more important scheduled tasks that need attending, better to deal with individual small faults now, than a backlog of issues later.Well first this assumes that you have an idea how simple or complex it is to fix something. True, spelling errors you think would be easy, but for everything else, I dont think we are in a position to really evaluate how easy/hard it is.
Second, is that while it would be nice to have spelling errors fixed, who wants to see that in patch notes? How many threads do you see asking for spelling corrections in the game?
The stuff you name is minor because its just that- minor. KK releases a patch that fixes the minor things that dont have any impact on gameplay, and people will be upset that they are spending time on searching the dialogue for spelling errors intead of balancing para or whatever else.
Maybe if KK had extra staff, they could spare someone to go around and fix the small comfort things- but I certainly am in no position to evaluate who on KKs staff has the time to take care of such tasks.
I think a lot of people would say that they really dont want KK coders spending time correcting spelling mistakes. Just my opinion.
Four servers are simply too many to sustain, even with BoY and what it may bring. One Four Slot German Server, two Two Character English / Mixed Servers. Ideally you would remove the German server, it's not only racist and segregating (Not my view, but could be construed as such) but a fully mixed server, would be so much more interesting I think, and certainly an enlightening experience for many. Having played on Jupiter, I have found a very good Community there, why hog it to themselves!?
With the money saved from cutting a server, it could be put towards developing and furthering world content. Thus keeping the increased server populations occupied, and removing the issues of over-crowding. Outpost Wars would also become far more brutal, as long as proper changes were implemented.I think you go a bit to quick into the ideal in terms of what would happen if KK dropped a server. Perhaps if they drop a server they could afford to pay their existing coders more respectable salaries for the work they do? Plus dropping a server wont drop that much cost, considering the bandwidth will be the same, and if Neo is hosted on a cluster of servers, you will still need the same amount of machines in order to handle the load of the number of players.
Its easy to sit back and say "drop a server, take the cash and spend it on more content, everyone is happy" but the financial reality wont be anywhere near that simple.
Also, I think it would be a nightmare for them to go from a 4E/1E/4G/1G server setup to 4G/2EG/2EG... would love to hear what would happen to the people on Saturn if you did that...
4: Reakktor does not charge enough for a monthly Subscription. - £5.50 for one months subscription? Please, pathetic. That extra £5 would make a huge difference, and no-one can miss £10 or $17 a month. As I said before, go wash ten cars at two bucks apiece.Eh, whether or not the extra money would make a "huge difference" is debateable, but only by people that know the costs of running a MMORPG... or more specifically running Neocron. And I am not one of those people, so I cant say much here.
5: Reakktor needs to look harder at Brainport
- Some wonderful ideas are made in Brainport, and never get taken any further, even the very simple ideas, like a 'Drop All' button would make such a wonderful difference, Especially a 'Transfer All' button for Inventory to GoGo or Cabinet. Wonderful, pleasing, simple.
True, not all ideas are feasible, or workable, but starting small, you can make amazing changes to gameplay by doing the simplest of things. Researching for example. Why can't we stack Datacubes in the Process window until the slots are full? Don't make it do it any quicker, let it take the same time as if you did eight seperately, but at least give us the chance to avoid getting RSI and walk away for a cup of tea. I achieve nothing by sitting for thirty minutes, moving cubes back and forth, I really don't. So time would not be changed, but physical strain on the Client would be. A big vote winner.How do you know how hard they look at Brainport? Are you just looking at patch changes, and since you dont see BP suggestions, that means they are not looking?
If so, that is flawed.
First of all, people posting in brainport often are not aware of how the game works, and what sort of trouble their idea would cause. Or what sort of exploits it would open up. Take your cube idea above- so you are saying that my resser spy shouldbe able to loadup 600 cubes, press a button, and come back a few hours later with 600 punisher BPs and a few million experience? And you dont see what is wrong with that? I am sure that would cause a SMALL problem in terms of balance between tradeskill exp and combat exp. No tank can press a button, walk away, and come back to find he killed 100 Grim Chasers while having his tea.
Second, as with your first point, KK simply cannot make some sort of formal acknowledgement to every idea posted in brainport. They cant explain on every post why that idea wont work, or how much time it will take to implement that idea, or why they simply dont like the idea.
Third, you and I doth dont know what changes that people suggest would be "simple" to code.
I think with Brainport all we can do is post our ideas, and leave them there for KK to browse.
--
Overall your ideas are fine- but I think you deal too much in the ideal rather than in the real. A lot of what you say would be nice, but certainly not practical in my mind.
slaughteruall
06-05-04, 15:53
Sry to say it but this game is not worth the extra amount each month. Also the price is on par for what this game is right now.
Maybe after DOY with the graphics/bug fixes (there better be some bug fixes). Maybe a increase of a few dollars. But not to 17$. A increase of 7$ is way to much. No other MMORG comes close to that.
Slaughter
@malach (thread starter- what a good post.)
Yes, right now its nice!! i dont mind paying $15 per month!! FFS dont you get it!!? to more than double the price cos some british guy doesnt mind paying a little more... the raise for you americans and british isnt so bad! ohh goes from 10 to 15 dollars per month.... well um your extra $5 or 5 pounds works out to close enought to $10 here, if not more...
I live in Chile. We don't get paid that much; Less than OZ. Normally its in Chilean pesos, but I have worked for payment in fresh meat once...
Compared to the US UK AU (AU=Australia), Chilean's don't earn that much. Chile is termed as a developing country by some... Few Chilean's can afford Neocron. Cable TV is seen as a luxury by some!
...But I'm happy to pay a little more if only I see an improvement in stability and an increase in server numbers. Better advertising; I read that this was happening in another KK started announcement so I'm hopeful there.
When I say a little bit more I don't mean double the monthly fee.
And Yes, I have two accounts as well. :o
Shadow Dancer
06-05-04, 18:50
Is it possible for someone to translate Animated's quote about Pluto?
And the fact that no KK employee has responded to this thread only proves point one. I understand they can't read every thread, but when a thread has a topic like "Reakktor - Meet your Client base", you would think it would grasp their attention. But nothing...
They shouldn't increase prices. It's because of the low price a lot of people have 2, 3 or 4 accounts. Increase prices and most people will cancel at least one of their accounts to keep the montly cost the same.
And the fact that no KK employee has responded to this thread only proves point one. I understand they can't read every thread, but when a thread has a topic like "Reakktor - Meet your Client base", you would think it would grasp their attention. But nothing...
They shouldn't increase prices. It's because of the low price a lot of people have 2, 3 or 4 accounts. Increase prices and most people will cancel at least one of their accounts to keep the montly cost the same.Well first I gave reasons as to why KK wouldnt want to respond to threads like this. What could KK possibly say that wouldn't result in more flaming? Have you seen the recent stuff from MJS? He has now stopped giving ANY dates in any of his posts cause he knows people can handle it.
Second, maybe KK is waiting for there to be some sort of consensus within this thread.
Third, this thread isnt even rated yet.
Well first I gave reasons as to why KK wouldnt want to respond to threads like this. What could KK possibly say that wouldn't result in more flaming? Have you seen the recent stuff from MJS? He has now stopped giving ANY dates in any of his posts cause he knows people can handle it.They could give us some good news for ONCE?
I mean, they get flamed because they never do anything right, do you seriously expect people to be nice, respectful and encouraging, when all the news we ever get is another KK fuckup?
They could give us some good news for ONCE?
I mean, they get flamed because they never do anything right, do you seriously expect people to be nice, respectful and encouraging, when all the news we ever get is another KK fuckup?For some people, being told that the product wont be hastily released and that the release is delayed because they are implementing item tracking and such is good news. For others, all they see is a deadline was missed so its time to start bitching.
They announced that in Europe, BDOY will have a huge, well established publisher.
Right in the midst of cries about how KK never listens to the players, the release a patch on the testserver that has some player requested items in it (GR at the racetrack finally).
They announced that over the summer there will be an advertising campaign on some sort.
But to many, none of this matter. They missed a deadline, and therefore suck.
For some people, being told that the product wont be hastily released and that the release is delayed because they are implementing item tracking and such is good news. For others, all they see is a deadline was missed so its time to start bitching.Hey, I didnt bitch until DoY was delayed for the fourth time.
THIS IS THE FOURTH DELAY, NOT THE FIRST.
Doing things that should have been done 3 years ago isnt a good thing.
They announced that in Europe, BDOY will have a huge, well established publisher.And who complained about this?
It's also not good news, how bad is it if having a decent publisher is "good news"?
Right in the midst of cries about how KK never listens to the players, the release a patch on the testserver that has some player requested items in it (GR at the racetrack finally).The racetrack GR MJS PROMISED the last retail patch?
How about they fix FRE's instead of adding a rare knuckles?
They announced that over the summer there will be an advertising campaign on some sort.It wont be good news until we see it, I mean even a naive person would know better then to trust KK at this stage.
But to many, none of this matter. They missed a deadline, and therefore suck.They didnt miss one deadline.
They missed 20 plus.
[ edited ]
Ideally you would remove the German server, it's not only racist and segregating (Not my view, but could be construed as such) but a fully mixed server, would be so much more interesting I think, and certainly an enlightening experience for many. Having played on Jupiter, I have found a very good Community there, why hog it to themselves!?
Why is it racist? Isn't it racist too, to have a server with english as the official "to be used" language (pluto, saturn, uranus...and don't tell me "english is the lingua-franka and therefore this cant be counted as being "racist" on your scale...if so, why isn't chinese or spanish the official server-language?)...do you know what term you are using in this context? It does not fit at all. Sure, the Jupiter-comm is quite nicely compared to other servers, so is venus (damn racists....french only :rolleyes: ). Actually, there is a reason for these 2 servers to have such a nice comm....its because RPing is possible to a much greater extend due to the fact, that ppl can "play" in their mothertongue. Apart from this, no one says you aren't allowed to play on Jupiter being from another country than Germany....
Concerning the "make Jupiter a 4-char server" ...after beta4 there has been a vote on this, and it was largely decided, that Jupiter should only offer 1-char slot...which is good this way imho.
If I play on Uranus/Pluto I adopt to the server language and speak english, everyone is free to do the same concerning Jupiter.
Overall a great post Octavia ...and I agree with most of it ..but this part concerning Jupiter just kept me from giving it a full 5-stars ;)
Hey, I didnt bitch until DoY was delayed for the fourth time.
THIS IS THE FOURTH DELAY, NOT THE FIRST.
Doing things that should have been done 3 years ago isnt a good thing.3 years ago? You mean in early beta? BDOY all should have been in early beta? Where you even here 3 years ago? I have been here a while, and that even predates me joining this community.
And regardless of the number of the delay- is that all you look at? Or are you the least bit concerned about why it was delayed?
And who complained about this?You JUST complained they never share any good news with us. :rolleyes:
It's also not good news, how bad is it if having a decent publisher is "good news"?So having a publisher better than CDV and actually considered one of in not THE largest in Europe for this type of game isnt good news???
So you will go back three years to examine what is happening now, but you wont look to the last publisher and recognize this as a huge improvement, and thus good news?
The racetrack GR MJS PROMISED the last retail patch? How about they fix FRE's instead of adding a rare knuckles?LOL. People asked for a GR there and they got it. People asked for more weapon variety and they got it.
You dont have to like it Celt. But tell me, what should KK do??? People ask for a GR at the racetrack. They finally add one and you bitch. Should they not have added one at all??? They could have either added on now or not. You are pissed they added one now simply because it should have been in earlier (which I agree with). So no matter WHAT, you will be pissed about this. So why even bother mentioning it?
It wont be good news until we see it, I mean even a naive person would know better then to trust KK at this stage.You trust them with your monthly payment. :rolleyes: Sure its in the test server patch (which I am sure you must have checked out by now) but that doesnt mean that it will make it to the live server. How many other test patches has the GR at the racetrack appeared in?
They didnt miss one deadline.
They missed 20 plus.
[ edited ] LOL. Wow, I guess that since you called be a fanboy that actually MEANS something in this discussion?
They missed 20 plus deadlines. Whatever. Did I say they missed only one deadline? Or in your rabid inconsistency, do you not realize that I am not incorrect when I said that they 'missed a deadline'???
And even if I had said they missed only one deadline, it wouldnt have mattered if they missed 20. The point is that people see the missing of a deadline, and just start bitching regardless of reasons why.
The game is still fun for me. I am still happy with the game. So I keep paying my money each month and playing. At least my actions are consistent. ;)
going back to jupi its very easy to learn very basic german enough to get by in the game and people are very apprecitive (sp?) if you at least try.
But again on the 4 char slots FU keept it single the 4 char slot servers are well sad to say the least
1: I agree, KK's community involvement is pretty much nil.
Lupus was nice, but he wasnt a KK employee, and now his project seems axed.
My project wasn't axed. It's on hold till a few issues get sorted out. Plus I'm workin on a few new projects in the mean time ;)
I was thinking about this last night while I was trying to get to sleep (yeah sad I know :D ).
In my spare time I'm a Mapper/3D Modeller/Coder, but for a day job I do Customer Services. And, frankly, I do it bloody well :)
It's not the most glamourous of professions, but it's not just answering phones and writing letters either. It seems to me that KK view themselves as a game design company, and don't consider themselves to be a service provider.
To give some examples of what I mean; are Amazon a bookshop or a service provider? Is your internet bank in the business of creating server-webinterface software, or are they selling you a service? Is Google a search engine or one of the best Business-2-Business service providers around?
KK are, in my opinion, very good game designers. Although I disagree with many of their decisions I can respect what they've accomplished with a relatively small team. Neocron really is (or at least was) a really first class game. But they're not tackling the fact that we, as customers, are not buying their game, we're buying the service they're providing.
The helpdesk do a reasonable job in the face of adversity; the volunteer forum mods do their job within the remit KK has given them; Lupus & Co. do what they can on a volunteer basis to improve the game. KK however seem to do extremely little in terms of Customer Service. As I said it's not just about writing letters, or in their case answering e-mails. You have to build goodwill with your customers, present a tidy reliable service that does the job it's meant to do with a minimum of fuss, make your customers feel appreciated and wanted (even if you're silently cursing them to the ends of the earth).
Online gaming isn't an area I've worked in before, but I'd imagine that building the community (rather than just regulating it) should be a very high priority. Communication is vital; you need clear and regular two way channels to interact with your customers. They need to feel like they're being kept informed - whether you show them the entire picture or a fraction isn't the issue, they have to feel like you're being open and honest -- and they need to feel like they're being listened to. Customer concerns must be answered -- which in KKs case they outstandingly aren't -- even if the answer doesn't please.
I could go on. I'm not an expert in Customer Services, but it's a science not a job, and needs to be taken extremely seriously by any company that's serious about making money. Perhaps one of KKs priorities for DoY should be to rebuild their customer relations into a far far more professional service, perhaps bring in staff dedicated to managing this vital business area.
I've bought your game KK. You have my money for it 5 times over now. Now I'm paying for the service you're offering...and if I was offering the level of service I've come to expect from KK to my customers I'd expect to be fired.
Nice post, sadly it is wasted.
slaughteruall
07-05-04, 22:10
Ok some people are asking for server merges. Do you honestly think the servers could handle it? Saturn cant handle the players it has now. When saturn is at peek on weekends it lags ALL the time (KK says it dont happen but we all know better).
Helpdesk dont even get me started on the helpdesk folks.
Also can we get some active FC's. The lack of GM or FC events on saturn is pathetic. It's almost to the point of asking myself why i'm paying for 2 accounts.
Slaughter
It seems to me that KK view themselves as a game design company, and don't consider themselves to be a service provider...But they're not tackling the fact that we, as customers, are not buying their game, we're buying the service they're providing.You make an excellent point Mr. Chumble. Imagine for a moment if KK had only developed the game and had hired another company to run the service of Neocron. KK would regularly evaluate the performance of this company and replace them if they felt they were not doing a good job for their customers.
I have to ask, why did KK seek a financial partner? Most companies do so to fund growth. When I first heard of the new arrangement I assumed that KK would be expanding their staff in order to: provide better support, fix problems with the game faster, add new content faster, complete the expansion faster. Yet, to my knowledge, KK did not expand their staff. It doesn't make much sense.
Excellent post once again, it's "cause" is good... Some things I dissagree with,
like monthly charges, I think it's fine. The money they will get from the BDoY
expansion upgrades will compensate for such low prices IMO up till this point.
But, some things I have to say that's been bothering me.
By the posts by MJS and KK, I've come to the conclusion that they don't give
a flying sh*t about the current player base... Let me explain, MJS said to wait
for BDoY to replenish server counts... But what good is that to the current
player base?
Which got me thinking, MJS don't care about this playerbase because when BDoY
comes out, there will be enough players to replace us all with newcommers with
new found addictions for this game to fuel MJS's wallet and the rest of payed
employees.
Why should they care about us, if we all left we'd be replaced on the release of
BDoY anyway. Right now they seem to be forgetting the players who devote
ALOT of time to this game, whether it be helping new commers, submitting
bugs and helping the community "stick together". Why are we being ignored?
It's like, if you don't like our way... leave, we can replace you.. sorta deal.
Although I'm probably being a little drastic in my post, It's still true wether not
KK's intentions to come off that way... I still get the impression that BDoY
will treat new players better than the current treatment we newcommers and veterans
alike receive.
Maloch, I solute you for the time you take to make such posts.
Parad0x -FBI
I believe the burden is on kk to give us a reason to have faith in them again. I feel like I'm on a sinking ship in which the crew is madly chucking bucketfulls of water over the side to keep us afloat till we reach land. But its not just to reach land, it's to reach the island we signed up on this cruise to visit. Along the way we passed lots of very attractive islands, but we believed that if we hold out our island will be the best. Every so often the captain says he sees it just around the corner, but we see nothing. The crew that isn't busy dumping water overboard is runnin around fixing holes with bubblegum and band aids. Some are busy trying to entertain the passangers with distractions, so they don't think about the sorry state they're in. As the weeks go by, more and more passangers give up and jump overboard. We can now see them off happily on other Islands. We're asking ourselves why are we still here?
I'm sorry if that seems harsh, I don't mean to undervalue the work kk and their volunteer staff have done. Many have done excellent jobs under the circumstances. But often it's wasted going in the wrong direction or focusing on seemingly unimportant things. Maybe I don't see the whole picture, but I do know there are some key issues in Neocron that don't get nearly enough attention. Namely: Clan Wars, Soul Light, Op Wars/Turrets, PPU importance/impact on pvp, Faction Politics. That's just off the top of my head right now. These are big issues that effect the core part of Neocron that keeps all of us here. Patches make sporadic changes that sometimes address these problems. Like the const skill needed to drop turrets. But rarely do we see a focused effort to do something. One patch goes in this direction, another goes in a completely different. There are so many half done/abandoned systems in Neocron. Just about the only thing we've ever seen a concerted effort on is against Monks. Patches consistantly had modifications to improve/worsen Monks. Ah there is another exception I should mention, Lupus' weapon balancing fixes. He's been doing an excellent job focusing on that.
I believe this is why people complain nomatter what the patch improves. We rarely see a concerted effort to fix something. Just random back and forth accross a whole array of issues. In doing so they often generate more problems, which aren't addressed in the next patch becaus they've gone off to a different issue.
PS. I agree with FBI's post, I've come to the same conclusions myself. We've got too much baggage with us, all the past failures and such. So they're silently hoping most of us will just leave and let them start fresh with BDOY. They can win over a whole new generation of fanboys then. It'd better if the jaded older customers weren't around to give a countering point of view. Plus there's how much the game has changed, Neocron as it is now or will be in BDOY does not attract the same crowd it did back in beta and early retail. So those of us who signed up for that older Neocron realy don't have any place here now. Our ideas and opinions reflect a desire to go back to a version of Neocron that KK has left behind.
I believe the burden is on kk to give us a reason to have faith in them again. I feel like I'm on a sinking ship in which the crew is madly chucking bucketfulls of water over the side to keep us afloat till we reach land. But its not just to reach land, it's to reach the island we signed up on this cruise to visit. Along the way we passed lots of very attractive islands, but we believed that if we hold out our island will be the best. Every so often the captain says he sees it just around the corner, but we see nothing. The crew that isn't busy dumping water overboard is runnin around fixing holes with bubblegum and band aids. Some are busy trying to entertain the passangers with distractions, so they don't think about the sorry state they're in. As the weeks go by, more and more passangers give up and jump overboard. We can now see them off happily on other Islands. We're asking ourselves why are we still here?
I'm sorry if that seems harsh, I don't mean to undervalue the work kk and their volunteer staff have done. Many have done excellent jobs under the circumstances. But often it's wasted going in the wrong direction or focusing on seemingly unimportant things. Maybe I don't see the whole picture, but I do know there are some key issues in Neocron that don't get nearly enough attention. Namely: Clan Wars, Soul Light, Op Wars/Turrets, PPU importance/impact on pvp, Faction Politics. That's just off the top of my head right now. These are big issues that effect the core part of Neocron that keeps all of us here. Patches make sporadic changes that sometimes address these problems. Like the const skill needed to drop turrets. But rarely do we see a focused effort to do something. One patch goes in this direction, another goes in a completely different. There are so many half done/abandoned systems in Neocron. Just about the only thing we've ever seen a concerted effort on is against Monks. Patches consistantly had modifications to improve/worsen Monks. Ah there is another exception I should mention, Lupus' weapon balancing fixes. He's been doing an excellent job focusing on that.
I believe this is why people complain nomatter what the patch improves. We rarely see a concerted effort to fix something. Just random back and forth accross a whole array of issues. In doing so they often generate more problems, which aren't addressed in the next patch becaus they've gone off to a different issue.
Awesome post, i think you hit what we are all feeling on the nail head.
Parad0x -FBI
Yeah, damn Carinth, that was the best analogy i've ever seen written concerning the current feelings I have for KK and Neocron in general.
3 years ago? You mean in early beta? BDOY all should have been in early beta? Where you even here 3 years ago? I have been here a while, and that even predates me joining this community.
And regardless of the number of the delay- is that all you look at? Or are you the least bit concerned about why it was delayed?
The earliest "release date" I was here for was march 2003 but as far I know there was one missed before that and any way you look at it its a stupidly long delay.
As for the reasons for the delays the only one we have gotten is that its more then there was meant to be in the origional DOY release, but fucking deal we have gone a year and a half since retail with fuck all content in the game with the exceptin of a few weapons and implants added, if you ask me I would rather having a constant supply of small upgrades constantly improving the game and bug fixing which has been severely lacking in neocron and not just bundle aload of upgrades into 1 package so you can charge for it.Yes the graphics upgrade to the engine will probably be worth paying for but most of the other stuff announced should of been done already.
So having a publisher better than CDV and actually considered one of in not THE largest in Europe for this type of game isnt good news???
So you will go back three years to examine what is happening now, but you wont look to the last publisher and recognize this as a huge improvement, and thus good news?LOL.
Generally if somebody relises their mistakes and try to fix them I dont consider it good news, as for KK getting a good publisher its not a case of good news but a case of about time
People asked for a GR there and they got it. People asked for more weapon variety and they got it.
You dont have to like it Celt. But tell me, what should KK do??? People ask for a GR at the racetrack.
They should of added vaguely close to when they said they would rather then waiting upwards of 6 months after they said they would.
You trust them with your monthly payment. :rolleyes:
Worldpay actually handle the money changing hands so its worldpay hes trusting not KK
Sure its in the test server patch (which I am sure you must have checked out by now) but that doesnt mean that it will make it to the live server. How many other test patches has the GR at the racetrack appeared in?
Just because its on the test server doesnt mean it will go retail ( in theory anyway) and its been 2 months and the previous patch on test still hasnt gone retail so god knows how long it will take
And even if I had said they missed only one deadline, it wouldnt have mattered if they missed 20. The point is that people see the missing of a deadline, and just start bitching regardless of reasons why.
Dude that is bullshit the people who bitch bitch because they are told constantly that DOY is being delayed for the vaguest of reasons such as the fabled it is so much more then DOY was origionally intended excuse which still hasnt been explained in any real detail, and if you try remember back when the first few delays were announced the community basically aknowledged that a delay would be good if it led to a better game but most people have just gotten sick of vague excuses and more delays.
Right in the midst of cries about how KK never listens to the players, the release a patch on the testserver that has some player requested items in it (GR at the racetrack finally).
But to many, none of this matter. They missed a deadline, and therefore suck.
Sorry to burst your bubble her but they DO suck because extra non-OP GRs HAVE been promised since the OP GR locks were implemented. And FINALLY after how many months now? We FINALLY get ONE SINGLE extra GR! Way to go KK! NOT! :mad:
slaughteruall
08-05-04, 01:26
Sorry to burst your bubble her but they DO suck because extra non-OP GRs HAVE been promised since the OP GR locks were implemented. And FINALLY after how many months now? We FINALLY get ONE SINGLE extra GR! Way to go KK! NOT! :mad:
battledome?
Scanner Darkly
08-05-04, 01:52
aye,
grow up/get over it>moan
Maloch Octavia
08-05-04, 02:06
I'm glad to see this is going along a fairly constructive route so far.
So we're agreed, that yes, Reakktor have issues which they are dealing with, but we are also agreed that Reakktor could have dealt with a lot more by now, had they taken the time out to do so.
By aKe`cj
that ppl can "play" in their mothertongue.
Technically, that's racist, as it's segregating non-German speaking players from the Server. If you read that section again, I said, it's not my view, but could be construed as such. I didn't intend it to become a big issue.
I just see no reason why we can't have a proper mixed language server, if we were really wanting to increase population. Lets put that one aside though.
Back in the days gone by, when I ran Operation Flashpoint Editing Center (Wolfsbane), I had a long talk with a self-made millionare, whom at the time, was hosting our site for free. He said, and this stuck with me:
" For every one person that walks out unhappy with your changes, another two will walk in happy. "
That man was right.
As Carinth said, many of us have seen the Neocron we knew, vanish into the past, and be that bad or good, we were simply used and preferred to, the other way. So perhaps all this advancement is for a good thing, eh? I mean, there is only so long you can stick with something, regardless how many changes it takes.
As for actual game content, the amount of things that would take minimal effort, that should have been done, haven't. The best example, is Independent GR's. I mean, damn, I'm Level 29 Spy on my new Saturn character, and I use my Hovertec, but really, it's still a nightmare to get anywhere, and god forbid if you die somewhere away from an I-GR. All these Outpost lockdowns.. *Sighs*
So what does it take to dot round a few more GR's? Not much.
How much would it improve things on a basic level? Quite a chunk, in many ways. Increasing Outpost Wars being the best example.
That's just a personal issue though.
As well as things like Dynamic Objects. They get introduced, they're bugged, they're removed, and never heard from again. What happened there? We can only assume they'll make a return in B:DoY, but why did we have to wait so long?
Reakktor is a Company with a chain of command, and at the very top, is the man that can say:
" Stop. Do this first."
So in the instance of Dynamic Objects, when bugged and removed, the man at the top, should have gone:
" Stop the schedule, fix that first. "
He has the power to, and it looks very, very good on any Company that does it. I can't even recall the game, but a big game released a patch, and it bugged the game. I think it was about a day later, they released an update for it.
That's what I call professionalism.
Okay, so they released a bugged patch, but they fixed it immediately.
I also seem to recall this happened to Reakktor once or twice, and they fixed it, but only the big issues, why not the small ones?
I'm just dissapointed with what I've seen swing so close, only to get dragged away again.
I've tried Eve Online, I've tried Planetside, I've tried DAoC, I've tried Shadowbane, and I've tried AO, and I come back to Neocron every time. It's got the biggest and best potential, and fits the style of atmosphere I really want to play in.
So why is Reakktor taking so long to achieve its potential?
Yes, you can say Staff levels, but Reakktor has a very loyal and loving Community (Although it's not always obvious) and there is a swathe of talent here that can be tapped, and I daresay, tapped for free. I've given my time to many Volunteer projects for Neocron, and I know many people would also do the same, not just on a game level, but on a design level, from graphics to modelling to level design. So why not use it? Give them something in-game, for their troubles. Just make sure they sign the dotted line for terms and conditions.
Then it really is, a Player game. It might not be run by the players in-game (Chairman is a joke), but it's got player input, in a much more immediate sense of the word.
All it needs, is good vetting, and people in control that are excellent man-managers and good judges of character.
I go back to when I ran OFPEC. I ran the tightest goddamn ship you ever saw. I had about sixty volunteer Staff working on the site in all its various Depots, and they were all great guys. We had some idiots, we had some slackers, and we had the usual chaff. One by one, I got rid of them. For it, I got the reputation of being a bastard, but things were achieved, and the site made huge leaps and bounds.
So you have to be harsh to be kind, and as I learned, within your Community, be it for a War Simulation, an MMORPG, or even a Chess Community, you will find talent which you can reap the benefits of, by simply enlisting it with the tools, information, and trust required to do the job at hand.
The results can be surprising, to say the least.
It's also about keeping things trimmed. With OFPEC, sixty guys, that's a lot for a fansite, albeit, the biggest in the Community, and the best, but they were all allocated to their Depots, they all had a strong chain of command that was never broken, and the senior Staffs were given powers and responsibilities according to their position. Inter-Ranks promotion was also highly encouraged, and many people went from Grunt to Depot Administrator, after a few months of hard work and dedication, and the people running the site now, all started off as basic grunts. One of them, I found in the Chatroom, liked his style, gave him some trust, and he has never let me down!
So for cutting the chaff at Reakktor, lets start in-game. Lets get rid of all the Faction Counsellors. Fire them, sack them, remove the entire scheme.
Why?
Well, what the hell are Faction Chairmen for? Use them! Give them a purpose! The Counsellors are Reakktors link to the Players, why not use the Chairman instead? Makes a lot more sense to me, and removes a requirement of what, one hundred Faction Counsellor volunteers? That's a bit of a cutback eh? Things wont dimish though, and the Chairman is more accessible than a Counsellor, and has no reason not to be afforded the same level of contact. It'll simply require Reakktor changing their Communications medium, and instead of dragging them into IRC for meetings, email them 'in-game' 'in-character' as it were.
If you really wanted to Roleplay, you can say that although the Chairman is the face of the Faction, there is always that shadowy figure in the background that really works the strings.
So there you go, an immediate release of time commitment to Reakktors people like Snowcrash and Iorghe.
Then you have NeMa. When I worked for NeMa, I started off as basic writer, and eventually attained Vice Editor. I saw how hard Iorghe worked to complete that magazine, and I did what I could to help, but the poor guy, really, I think the last thing he wanted to worry about, was a stinking magazine!!
So what do you do? How do you help someone that has obviously far too much to deal with as it is?
You take on a few people, people you know or trust, and give them the reigns. Remove Reakktor involvement 100%, except for information emails, telling the new Player Editor, about stories that need to be written, to release some new information, or suchwise. Assign them an email address, I had one, so there are still some available, and ta-da, you're done. Change the contact details, make sure they're Acrobat trained, or give them the base template, and give them the details of the graphics artist that will do the work.
Again, another responsibility removed from Reakktors plate, to absolutely no detriment to the subject at hand. Hell, even the graphics artist, find a Community Member to do it, they are out there, some very talented people.
As for GamesMasters, (GM's), now, I've had only the vaguest of peeks at the rear end system they use, and it's fairly straightforward, and I've also seen the numbers they hire in, but not 100% on the final figure. So I can't be sure how it runs or operates, and Danae has gone to sleep, so I can't ask.
However, as long as Reakktor are aware of the refinement of time and commitment, then it wont be an issue. Ten GM's, per server, per day, can concievably cover most of your issues, remembering, quite a few Tickets will be simple problems to solve. As we've also noticed, the GM support seems to be fairly European time-based, which shows Reakktor aren't worried about having 'Down time' on the support, which is fine, as most games have it in one way or another. 24hrs is an acceptable response time for in-game support in most MMO's, 48 I would consider is the maximum.
So it would simply be, three GM's start at 8am, until 5pm, a nine hour shift, then three from 5pm until midnight, then three from midnight until 8am.
Nine Gm's, and one for doing basic covering, or odd-jobbing.
Of course, GM's are volunteers, but with Volunteers, again, I refer to OFPEC, you need to be hard on them, you need to be tough, take no bullshit. When I was in the middle of 'firing' someone from the site and removing his access and priviliges, he was arguing over why, I retorted with:
" Just because you volunteer for this, does not mean your responsibility is in any way diminished. Not only are you representing the site and upholding the site quality, you are also supporting your fellow Staff member, and if you feel you are unable to give the time or effort required, then you are not welcome here. Wage or no wage, your commitments are the same as I would expect from myself. "
Which is my golden rule, it doesn't matter if you're volunteering or not, pull your fucking finger out and get the goddamn job done, no fucking excuses. Real life, yes, it exists, but so does this, and so does your promise to work for this, and help this, and support this. In this day and age of technological advancement and increased interaction online, the excuse of 'Real life got in the way' is actually becoming less and less an acceptable excuse.
How is running a website, any different from running a charity shop? You might not be making any profit, but you can't just not turn up because you don't feel like it. Who will run the shop? What will happen to your customers? They'll go somewhere else.
So as long as the GM process has been refined, and whoever is in charge, isn't afraid to be tough and take no shit or excuses, then we're onto another winner and timesaver for Reakktor, as it'll also allow for further diminished Staff listings, which means less time input from those with more pressing matters on hand.
Refinement, control, and a little bit of controversy to achieve what you want, are all it takes to make a ship run tight and smooth. It needs to be to the stage where the man in charge can say:
" Going on holiday for a month, 'X' is in charge, don't contact me "
As he knows when he comes back, because him and his Staff, have spent the time neccessary to remove the chaff and the liabilities, that the ship will still be on course and running full-speed, simply because there is nothing that can go wrong, that can't be fixed, as the Staff are the best, enthusiastic, and loyal to not only the cause, but also to the man in charge.
Reakktor, are a great company, with huge potential, and have earned a lot of my respect, and a lot of my time, and will continue to do so. Never before have I been so compelled to try and assist a Company in achieving its aims, even if it is only by writing articles for its game magazine, or playing an in-game Counsellor.
Every little bit helps, as it works both ways.
To complain about a situation, your help on the situation has first to have been rejected.
Reakktor has rejected some, accepted others.
Perhaps its time to look at accepting just a little bit more....
I don't have the energy to contibute the pages of GOOD posts already here with constructive words, thought I have many a time before :) Just wanted to say that I agree with many of your points Maloch, Ray, Carinth, FBI, et al who are not being specifically negative about certain points.
KK has a golden product in their hands, however their ability to foster and promote it's growth is sadly lacking *shrug* I don't want to ramble so I'm stopping here and sticking to my small posts I've been more prone too lately :p I just searched through posts by me making a little Brainport List, and fuck, I type too much.
battledome?
Yes, one non-OP GR added. Please notice that both I and KK's representative at the time used plural... They added Battledome, and it took over half a year to add just another little GR. And, well, it's still only on TS and may as usual not even make it to retail for a long time to come (if ever). So forgive me for being upset at having had to leave a server completely in frustration because I happened to belong to a small faction that had no large OP-holding clans and every other faction and clan (including friendlies) always set the GR rules to Faction or Clan only.
While I mostly agree with ya, Maloch, I don't think we should scrap the FC's. They are exactly what you're looking for : ) They're enthusiastic players who signed up to help kk enhance the rp environment ingame. They run into problems when the players are apathetic, it's hard to keep up motivation when the players ignore or actively fight against you. Often that's because the FC's are seen as GM's, not as players.
As for the faction council, that's yet another half done system that's waiting for BDOY. Last I heard it was being discussed exactly what the council will be able to do, things like booting people form the faction, having a faction bank account for funding events. While I agree they should be more active and actualy have a role in the world, it's a bit much to say they should replace the FC's. For one, the council chairman is just one player out of several in the council. Each of them are most often leaders of their own clan, which makes it difficult to devote time. I was asked repeatedly to be the tsunami assistant for our FC, but as the leader of a big clan I just couldn't. So lets just say the system needs a lot of work, and it's not just a single person. The councils are more or less, the leading runners in each faction.
FC's and Council Charimen are confused all the time, but they're nothing alike. I've been the Tsunami Council Chairman for a longtime, but everyone thinks I'm a FC. FC's are special rp characters with very limited GM abilities and inside information/links to KK. Council Chairmen are players, often the leader or high ranking member of the largest/most popular clan of a faction. FC's are given powers because KK has control over them. To try to use normal players in the same way is difficult. We've already had FC's run amok without realizing it, but it'd be a lot worse with players on their own characters.
I'm not criticizing your idea, it's just not as simple as you make it out to be. Your comparison to the web page is good, but damage control is a lot easier. FC's and GM's that run amok cause significant damage, not just to the game/players but to KK's reputation. It seems they try to err on the side of caution, hence why they're so strict. Remember in beta when GM's would appear just to hang out with us? They'd swap skins for a good laugh, sometimes spawn a little something. Then they all vanished when retail arrived, evidently they were told they can't even change skins infront of us anymore.
3 years ago? You mean in early beta? BDOY all should have been in early beta? Where you even here 3 years ago? I have been here a while, and that even predates me joining this community.Item tracking should have been done BEFORE BETA.
And regardless of the number of the delay- is that all you look at? Or are you the least bit concerned about why it was delayed?You JUST complained they never share any good news with us. :rolleyes:So having a publisher better than CDV and actually considered one of in not THE largest in Europe for this type of game isnt good news???I looked at the reason for the delay.
It was a bad reason.
And again, getting a decent publisher is not good news, it's news alright.
So you will go back three years to examine what is happening now, but you wont look to the last publisher and recognize this as a huge improvement, and thus good news?So it's a huge improvement, that doesnt make it good news.
Getting a standard thing like a publisher isnt good news.
People asked for a GR there and they got it.After it was promised to be in the last retail patch, by MJS himself, and after over a year of asking.
You dont have to like it Celt. But tell me, what should KK do??? People ask for a GR at the racetrack. They finally add one and you bitch. Should they not have added one at all??? I do like it.
I also like that it was personally promised last retail patch.
They could have either added on now or not. You are pissed they added one now simply because it should have been in earlier (which I agree with).I'm not pissed because it should have been in earlier.
I'm pissed when the CEO of KK promises that it will be in patch 198 and it isnt, and he gives no reasons.
So no matter WHAT, you will be pissed about this. So why even bother mentioning it?You mentioned it dear, not me.
You trust them with your monthly payment. :rolleyes:That's why I cancelled my account 6 weeks ago?
Wow, I guess that since you called be a fanboy that actually MEANS something in this discussion?Yes.
They missed 20 plus deadlines. Whatever. Did I say they missed only one deadline? Or in your rabid inconsistency, do you not realize that I am not incorrect when I said that they 'missed a deadline'???Of course you are not incorrect.
But you are portraying it as being only one deadline, thus not so bad.
That's why you are a fanboy.
And even if I had said they missed only one deadline, it wouldnt have mattered if they missed 20. The point is that people see the missing of a deadline, and just start bitching regardless of reasons why.No-one bitched when doy was delayed in 01/2003
Dont recall anyone bitching 3rd quarter 2003 either.
And again, saying bdoy is delayed for a beta test, and for things such as a proper item DB, isnt a good reason.
What then have they been doing with doy since 10/2002?
The game is still fun for me. I am still happy with the game. So I keep paying my money each month and playing. At least my actions are consistent. ;)As are mine, my account is cancelled.
[ edited ]
While I mostly agree with ya, Maloch, I don't think we should scrap the FC's. They are exactly what you're looking for : ) They're enthusiastic players who signed up to help kk enhance the rp environment ingame. They run into problems when the players are apathetic, it's hard to keep up motivation when the players ignore or actively fight against you. Often that's because the FC's are seen as GM's, not as players.
I actually agree fully with Maloch on this one and with the reasons you have put forth. The players disrespect and fight against the FCs because they had no choice in their selection. They don't even know who the FC is as they are, I believe, under strict orders to keep their in-game player personality a secret. And which is why I agree with Maloch to get rid of FCs and instead give the powers of FC to the chairman. The chairman is an actual ACTIVE player in the game. Usually someone who runs a large clan or someone who earned a lot of respect from the RPers in the faction. If the players do not like their representative, they can always express dissatisfaction and vote for a new representative. It's majority rule! Heck, maybe it will even get people to VOTE for once.
As for the faction council, that's yet another half done system that's waiting for BDOY. Last I heard it was being discussed exactly what the council will be able to do, things like booting people form the faction, having a faction bank account for funding events. While I agree they should be more active and actualy have a role in the world, it's a bit much to say they should replace the FC's. For one, the council chairman is just one player out of several in the council. Each of them are most often leaders of their own clan, which makes it difficult to devote time. I was asked repeatedly to be the tsunami assistant for our FC, but as the leader of a big clan I just couldn't. So lets just say the system needs a lot of work, and it's not just a single person. The councils are more or less, the leading runners in each faction.
Look at it this way. Would you rather be represented by a very busy clan leader (or one of his/her trusted leutenants) even though they have little to no time to spare or would you rather be represented by someone you have never seen or heard of until they were APOINTED to be the one to speak for you and, at times, don't even seem to care about their job because of the apathy and hostility they encounter from the players? True the chairman might not have enough time, but if they just spend a couple of hours per week dealing with important political issues, the game could be a lot more exciting if only KK would give them the tools to influence the world a bit. Even if it is just the ability to talk to KK employees about helping to organize events and code NPC scripts for it.
" Just because you volunteer for this, does not mean your responsibility is in any way diminished. Not only are you representing the site and upholding the site quality, you are also supporting your fellow Staff member, and if you feel you are unable to give the time or effort required, then you are not welcome here. Wage or no wage, your commitments are the same as I would expect from myself. "
I agreed with everything you said until this point, but not sure about the stuff after cos I got too annoyed to read it.
You've hit a nerve...I've volunteered for projects and mods before, and commit as much time as I'm able to, but the suggestion that any volunteer should be commiting as much of their life to a volunteer project as they would to say their job is just ridiculous.
I don't expect GMs to start at 8 and finish at 4, or some other crap like that. I expect them to be on the server as much as they can be, but would never expect or want them to put their GM duties above their Real Life commitments. If they were getting paid it would be a different matter entirely.
When people volunteer they either do it because they have a genuine desire to help out - in which case their time, however limited, should be accepted gratefully and put to best use - or because they want to be noticed and throw a little bit more power around - in which case they should either be politely shown the door or just not hired in the first place.
I'd agree with scrapping the faction counsellors; how often do you see them or do they do anything useful? The pluto CM FC is in my clan, and we still hardly ever see him. Get player voted representatives, and deputies, create some form of hierarchy that means something...it kills two birds with one stone by creating more content and filling a need.
Maloch Octavia
08-05-04, 23:44
I agreed with everything you said until this point, but not sure about the stuff after cos I got too annoyed to read it.
Don't get annoyed. :)
By my comments, I'm not meaning put it before your real life job, but I am saying, that if you Volunteer for something, don't think it doesn't matter if
' You can't be bothered '
Because it does, and Faction Counsellors, are an exellent example of that. We see too many of them come and go without really making as much effort as they could, again it's not always their fault, the public apathy towards them affects them badly, I know, I was one, and bust my ass, but got no thanks from the people I represented in the Faction.
Which is again why I think it could go to the Faction Chairman, because it will ensure that the public can swiftly deal with them if they aren't returning the goods.
For Reakktor to change someone that's not achieving, takes time, the player-base can do it in a week if they aren't happy.
I'm simply saying, too many people Volunteer for things, and think it's going to be an easy ride, and don't believe they have to put so much effort into it. They do, because people rely on them.
If you go for something, you had better be sure you can cope with it, and know what to expect.
Player elected Officials are more dynamic, flexible, and ultimately, respected and followed, than Faction Counsellors. (Chairmen also have their Clan to enforce their law!! :) )
Dirk_Gently
08-05-04, 23:50
The chairman is an actual ACTIVE player in the game.
Since when?? I think of all the council chairman ProtoPharm have had on uranus maybe three of us even attempted to make contact with PP runners. And then it was only when we got a new FC that people took any notice.
Because it does, and Faction Counsellors, are an exellent example of that. We see too many of them come and go without really making as much effort as they could, again it's not always their fault, the public apathy towards them affects them badly, I know, I was one, and bust my ass, but got no thanks from the people I represented in the Faction.
Hey hey! Wait right there! We, at Tangent inc. gave you ALL the respect we could man! Myself, Zane and everyone else that was there! :D
Which is again why I think it could go to the Faction Chairman, because it will ensure that the public can swiftly deal with them if they aren't returning the goods.
For Reakktor to change someone that's not achieving, takes time, the player-base can do it in a week if they aren't happy.
Agree with that fully!
Player elected Officials are more dynamic, flexible, and ultimately, respected and followed, than Faction Counsellors. (Chairmen also have their Clan to enforce their law!! :) )
Exactly what I meant in my previous post! It's better to have a clan leader or trusted leutenant deal with the major issues and devote only a few hours per week on it than have someone who was apointed and has no real power over the players call the shots.
Since when?? I think of all the council chairman ProtoPharm have had on uranus maybe three of us even attempted to make contact with PP runners. And then it was only when we got a new FC that people took any notice.
Well, that's Uranus for you. Try checking Pluto. I don't think there ever was a chairman in any faction who was elected but did nothing at all.
Maloch Octavia
09-05-04, 01:53
Hey hey! Wait right there! We, at Tangent inc. gave you ALL the respect we could man! Myself, Zane and everyone else that was there!
Sssshhh..... If I mention that, my argument loses some founding. Still thankful for that. Those Meetings were the best, especially the first one that got raided.
Arf, good days.
Sssshhh..... If I mention that, my argument loses some founding. Still thankful for that. Those Meetings were the best, especially the first one that got raided.
Arf, good days.
Hehe! Yep, god how I loved pushing and prodding your buttons :p
Both as the FC and as the clan leader, you were very fun to "abuse" :D
Sssshhh..... If I mention that, my argument loses some founding. Still thankful for that. Those Meetings were the best, especially the first one that got raided.Arf, good days.
We had a blast raiding it, even tho it was stacked against us, we died multiple times giving SS many of our belts to hack, and afterwards everyone hated us : D Good times!
Back OT, the faction politics system would need some serious work. As it is now it's nothing more then a joke. The council has no power whatsoever and elections can happen every other day. The winner often wins just because he has a larger active clan supporting him. That is entirely why I was chairman of tsunami on pluto. My competition was rabid and we ended up having re elections almost every day, but I had a more active clan to support me.
raising monthly price would be kind of like shooting yourself in the foot
raising monthly price would be kind of like shooting yourself in the foot
So... wouldn't that be right in line with most everything else that goes on around here :rolleyes:
dome of york will fix everything
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