THREADS MERGED - MC 5 poll

[sir retail]

i just wanna say..


WE NEED MC5 PARTS..

its bin like ages that we had the possibility to visit the MC5 area..
and now that my chars are better in xp.. (i was training for mc5).

i wanne go there to pick up some parts.. and i dont think im the only one ;) .

w8ting for Doy will be a pain in the ass i think..

so plz.. plz plz plz..

[ZoomZoom]

OPEN MC5 DAMNIT I WANNA CAP MY TANK :mad: :mad:

[Original monk]

i just wanna say..


WE NEED MC5 PARTS..

its bin like ages that we had the possibility to visit the MC5 area..
and now that my chars are better in xp.. (i was training for mc5).

i wanne go there to pick up some parts.. and i dont think im the only one ;) .

w8ting for Doy will be a pain in the ass i think..

so plz.. plz plz plz..

same here ... mc5 is "the" hilevel content in this game ... when youre fully capped and have like everything ... what else is there to do then pvp and mc5 ? (not talking RP here atm)

hilevel content doesnt seem important enough ... no quickfixes or anything ...

and now that there redesigning it in there :/ i allready hold my breath for how it gonna look like and how long it will take..

im curious tough ..

[sir retail]

sorry for the new treat but.. i could not do it on the old one anymore..

should the programmers drop all jobs and concentrate on MC5 to get it open. Or leave MC5 closed untill DOY.. :D

[Clownst0pper]

Please pay attention to test server notes before starting new threads,

MC5 will be opened when the next retail patch arrives, which I suspect will be a week, maybe 2.

[cMz]

Look at this from the testserver. This is what is happening.
When the patch is ready on testserver it will come to retail, and MC5 should be opened again.

http://neocron.jafc.de/showpost.php?p=1362905&postcount=42

[n3m]

umm mc5 is supposed to open next patch


:confused:

[Nidhogg]

Thread merged.

N

[Dribble Joy]

As allready said, next patch will reopen MC5.
It will be harder, but the drop rate will be higher.

[Original monk]

but the drop rate will be higher.

thats my biggest fear :/

[winnoc]

Hmmm, guess i should bring my spy and a ppu out to mc5 when it reopens (during slow hours) to hack all the belts from the pvp at mc5 when everyone is going there the first weeks it hits retail :-)

It's gonna be cramped in there :-)

[cMz]

Commander always drop 1 part and only 1 part.

Dont know how it was before. Never been to MC5 to kill anything :-)

[Dribble Joy]

Commander always drop 1 part and only 1 part.

Dont know how it was before. Never been to MC5 to kill anything :-)
You could kill the commander 10 times and get 0 parts, it was totally random.
On average, about one part in every... 5-10 kills?...

[s0apy]

MC5 isn't content, it's a class-biased campground for large clans, where capped or near capped tanks, APUs and PPUs go to get bored to death. here's my 2 options:

1. remove MC5 and replace with something fun for EACH class (say, an arena where you have to fight increasingly harder AI bots of the same class as you).

2. remove MC5 and all chips and parts currently in circulation and never mention the whole sorry mess again.

[naimex]

I don´t see the option to abstain ^^


I still can´t see the absolute need for mc5 chips.

yea sure they are nice to have, but they don´t make you godlike :rolleyes:


And DoY will be out the 1st september, so we won´t get it faster by voting for them to finish DoY so they dont have to spend time on MC5..

[ZoomZoom]

erm no safe zone........ :(

im not the tank that zones in and out and shoots base only but i need a place u rest and wait ur turn for mc5

[Heavyporker]

how about you damn whiners shut up and wait for the patch?!

[]v[ortice]

I really wanna go MC5 soon.

Unfortunately... as soon as it opens so will the floodgates. I doubt I'll get a decent session in for a good month or so afterwards :(

I'm all for the IDEA of having 3 MC5 rooms in the respective 3 buildings in the zone.

[greendonkeyuk]

1. remove MC5 and replace with something fun for EACH class (say, an arena where you have to fight increasingly harder AI bots of the same class as you).

Amen to that brother. Something along the lines of Shadow Run on the snes. The caryards section. To anyone who hasnt played it yet you have to escape from the caryards by beating all the bosses in order to progress to the next round. It was smart fun, something similar in nc would be awesome. Albeit id prefer something more of dungeon feel where you need the four classes (or at least 3 of em). Maybe if there were hackable doors or something to spice it up a little. Like a mini cave run for example. I just want something that isnt going to make me make like sid james and carry on camping from now till september basically.

[Jest]

I find it incredibly ironic that when Mc5 was first released I was personally negatively vocal about it. I hated the idea of being forced to camp a ridiculously hard place with no guarantee of return, just to get a stupid chip to remain competetive in PvP.

And now, I want it fixed. I just want some thing to do in game.

Let's hope it gets fixed soon.

[Strych9]

I dont see the need to have MC5 equally playable to all classes. The only two classes left out are Spies and PEs... and Spies and PEs can do a lot of things other classes cannot do. Stealth, combat vehicles, gliders (curr on test server).

At what point do you stop making individual "MC5 runs" for different classes? Is there one JUSt for a PPU? APU? Hybrid? Or HC tank, melee tank, rifle tank, droner tank, etc?

[Jest]

I dont see the need to have MC5 equally playable to all classes. The only two classes left out are Spies and PEs... and Spies and PEs can do a lot of things other classes cannot do. Stealth, combat vehicles, gliders (curr on test server).

At what point do you stop making individual "MC5 runs" for different classes? Is there one JUSt for a PPU? APU? Hybrid? Or HC tank, melee tank, rifle tank, droner tank, etc? I agree to that, but the problem is not that PEs and spies cant do Mc5. The problem is that they cant do it even though they want the Mc5 spoils of victory. Take my PE for example, I wanted an SA really bad but was worthless in Mc5. Know how I got my parts? I created a hybrid monk. :lol: That was back in the day though.

If the only parts to drop from Mc5 were Hercs and DSs, then it wouldnt be as much of a problem.

[s0apy]

I dont see the need to have MC5 equally playable to all classes. The only two classes left out are Spies and PEs... and Spies and PEs can do a lot of things other classes cannot do. Stealth, combat vehicles, gliders (curr on test server).


stealth, vehicles and gliders? how the hell will that help you in MC5? i'm being facetious though - obviously you feel spys and PEs simply have no right to MC5 chips. but then what are the hawking and SA for? and you have failed to state exactly WHY you don't see the need for MC5 to be playable by all classes (should read "why MC5s are not obtainable by all classes"). it is unacceptible for me that a PE or spy should need to have a tank or apu get an item that is only useful to the PE or spy. that may make sense in a multi-char world, but it makes no RP sense at all.



At what point do you stop making individual "MC5 runs" for different classes? Is there one JUSt for a PPU? APU? Hybrid? Or HC tank, melee tank, rifle tank, droner tank, etc?

duh - yes, obviously. since there is a chip for every class, every class should have a fair crack at getting one. even tradeskillers.

[Strych9]

stealth, vehicles and gliders? how the hell will that help you in MC5?Who said they help you in MC5???? Not me. I was saying that different classes have access to different aspects of the game.

My tank can take huge damage and can survive in MC5 with a PPU. My spy can fly in gliders and construct rare weapons.

If Spies, a class that BY DESIGN is intended to fight from range or at distance, can survive MC5 then I want my tank to be able to fly a glider as well.
i'm being facetious though - obviously you feel spys and PEs simply have no right to MC5 chips.obviously you have no grasp of logic. I never said or implied that Spies and PEs have no right to MC5 chips. Just because a tank cannot research or construct his CS parts... does that mean he has no right to a CS? Of course not, so dont make statements like that which make no sense.
but then what are the hawking and SA for? and you have failed to state exactly WHY you don't see the need for MC5 to be playable by all classes (should read "why MC5s are not obtainable by all classes"). it is unacceptible for me that a PE or spy should need to have a tank or apu get an item that is only useful to the PE or spy. that may make sense in a multi-char world, but it makes no RP sense at all.You ever hear of a clan? Or of a team? Or of teamwork? Or of cooperation?

How do you imagine that every spy and PE in the game with a MC5 chip got one? My main spy had a RD and a Hawk in his head at the same time. Think he got them himself? Nope. Clanmates got them. The tanks in the clan sure dont need a Hawkins, and they sure as hell want the guy building their rares to have it.

We know KK wants this game to be team oriented... and this seems to fit in with that idea.
duh - yes, obviously. since there is a chip for every class, every class should have a fair crack at getting one. even tradeskillers.duh - yes, obviously. since there is a rare weapon for every class, every class should have a fair crack at building one.

Now tell me what is wrong with what I just said vs what you just said?

Different classes have different roles in the game. If you play a Spy, and want a MC5 chip, then form a clan or join a clan and become part of the team effort to get one. Just because you can solo 120/120 mobs in close quarters with a runner designed for distance fighting, that doesnt mean the game should be altered to suit your wants.

SOMEHOW Spies and PEs manage to get MC5 chips. If you are having trouble, maybe you should ask some of them how they did it???

[s0apy]

Who said they help you in MC5???? Not me. I was saying that different classes have access to different aspects of the game.

My tank can take huge damage and can survive in MC5 with a PPU. My spy can fly in gliders and construct rare weapons.


as i said, i was being facetious. look it up ;).



I never said or implied that Spies and PEs have no right to MC5 chips.


it can be inferred by the fact you said "I dont see the need to have MC5 equally playable to all classes." if it is not playable by those classes, then the clear intention is that those classes have no "right" to the chips - they can obtain them, but only indirectly. this, then, is not a "right", it is a luxury.



Just because a tank cannot research or construct his CS parts... does that mean he has no right to a CS? Of course not, so dont make statements like that which make no sense.You ever hear of a clan? Or of a team? Or of teamwork? Or of cooperation?


a CS can, however, be obtained by a tank - by killing mobs, any mob of a certain rank, and gathering the parts and/or trading for them. MC5 parts can only be obtained in MC5, and are only (generally) tradeable for other MC5 parts. MC5 parts are unique, do not confuse them with any other aspect of the game such as normal rare-part trading or hunting. yes, you need the help of others such as researchers and consters, but this is a minor intervention - you don't have to hand the entire enterprise over to someone else.



How do you imagine that every spy and PE in the game with a MC5 chip got one? My main spy had a RD and a Hawk in his head at the same time. Think he got them himself? Nope. Clanmates got them. The tanks in the clan sure dont need a Hawkins, and they sure as hell want the guy building their rares to have it. We know KK wants this game to be team oriented... and this seems to fit in with that idea


perhaps i do not want, or expect, clanmates to obtain my items for me. perhaps i want to fend for myself. perhaps i play a PE which is not a support class and does not, generally, need or like to be bottle-fed and bum-wiped by another player(s) in order to get the items he needs. PEs are VERY self sufficient, that is the point of the class, therefore they should not need help to obtain "their" MC5 parts.

KK want the game to be team-oriented, but they also want and encourage solo-play. i see nothing - absolutely nothing - else in this game that is useful content, and in some cases NECESSARY content, and yet only obtainable by teaming very specific classes together.



.duh - yes, obviously. since there is a rare weapon for every class, every class should have a fair crack at building one.


on this we almost agree, but change "building" to "obtaining".



Now tell me what is wrong with what I just said vs what you just said?

Different classes have different roles in the game. If you play a Spy, and want a MC5 chip, then form a clan or join a clan and become part of the team effort to get one. Just because you can solo 120/120 mobs in close quarters with a runner designed for distance fighting, that doesnt mean the game should be altered to suit your wants.

SOMEHOW Spies and PEs manage to get MC5 chips. If you are having trouble, maybe you should ask some of them how they did it???

i am not having trouble, since i don't really want one badly enough to go through the hell of acquiring one. i have a tank, and an apu, but i'm fooked if i'm going to waste my time, or the time of a PPU that should surely have better things to do. and, as i already stated, i believe it does not make RP sense for this to happen.

obviously those people got someone else to do it. in the case of a tradeskiller, this is entirely appropriate, in both general logic and an RP sense. in all other cases, i feel, it is not appropriate - see my comments regarding hand-holding and nappy-changing above.

i would say that the effort of an entire clan is justified for clan or faction related purposes - holding OPs, clan missions, defending faction HQs and so on. i do not feel it appropriate that all that effort be necessarily put to the obtaining of a single item, obviously you do, and you are entitled to that opinion.

anyway, don't get me wrong, mostly i'd love to have an MC5 chip, but i must protest at the stupid, boring, pointless, soul-destroying, RP-defeating, repetitve, exclusionary way in which KK has seen fit to require they are obtained.

[jernau]

I'm confused by the poll. How are MC5 and BDoY related?

IMO MC5 is the most dull, annoying and tedious thing in the game but it still needs fixing. It also needs something done so ALL classes have a chance and it would be cool if they could utilise the other buidlings to allow more people to hunt at once. If they can do all that while keeping the overall drop-rate of the parts the same as it is now I'll be both happy and surprised.

btw my reading of the "one part per" post was that such a thing is now possible because of changes in the way loot tables are handled on the TS. I haven't seen it stated that this would definitely happen to the MC5 commander.

[Carinth]

I guess since I already have a ds and don't plan on goin back to MC5 anytime soon, I don't really care when they fix the place. I do care about a bazillion other problems in Neocron that need fixing.. before BDOY. That is if KK wants us to keep playing at all. How about Op's/Turrets, Clan Wars, Faction Politics, or Soul Light. I'd like some attention to the content that supposedly keeps us playing Neocron.

soapy: You act as if it's entirely passive unless you actualy go out and hunt for the parts yourself. Havn't you ever traded rare parts with other players? I managed my clan's mc5 part collection back when we were actively getting parts. Those of us capable of getting parts went hunting nearly every day to get parts for the rest of the clan. I then traded with other clans/players for the parts we needed to make a set. Hawkins is the least valuable MC5 chip, it wouldn't be that hard to get a hold of some parts if you've got cash. Heck I think I even still have some hawkins parts gatherin dust in my apartment.

I don't see were the game encourages solo play, I think you're mistaken. A year ago and yea I'd agree that both solo and team play are encouraged. But today the name of the game is specialization and team work is strongly encouraged. In fact, you'll see this also when they finnaly put in the Crahn Epic. The Crahn Epic is a glove which every monk will need, which means every monk is going to switch faction. When we asked KK why they're doing this, since it'll ruin faction loyalty. Their response was that you don't hafta switch faction, you can buy a glove from a crahn runner who's done the epic. Teamwork : )

[Clownst0pper]

I guess since I already have a ds and don't plan on goin back to MC5 anytime soon, I don't really care when they fix the place. I do care about a bazillion other problems in Neocron that need fixing.. before BDOY. That is if KK wants us to keep playing at all. How about Op's/Turrets, Clan Wars, Faction Politics, or Soul Light. I'd like some attention to the content that supposedly keeps us playing Neocron.

Here here. :angel:

[RayBob]

Perhaps they will add a Hacknet version of MC5 that only spies and PEs have any hope of entering—not with the same chips but some other highly desirable chip. Tanks and monks do the current MC5 while spies and PEs do the other place and they can trade.

Then again, monks can hack also. Damn monks.

[Strych9]

as i said, i was being facetious. look it up ;).Did you know facetious is the only word in the english language with every vowel appearing in it exactly once, and in order? If you count 'y', then facetiously.

Yes I know what it means. ;)
it can be inferred by the fact you said "I dont see the need to have MC5 equally playable to all classes." if it is not playable by those classes, then the clear intention is that those classes have no "right" to the chips - they can obtain them, but only indirectly. this, then, is not a "right", it is a luxury.This isnt manifest destiny. We are talking about camping mobs, something most people find real tedious anyway.

You can go over the semantic differences between having a "right" to a MC5 tech part vs having one as a luxury... but I have yet to see you or anyone else explain the harm in having the farming only realistically done by tanks/apus/ppus.

Its about things to do in the game. The game offers plenty of stuff to do, and NO SINGLE runner can do it all. Spies have their own things they can do, as do monks, as do tanks. One of the things that Spies cannot do is solo MC5. Thats the breaks. One of the things ONLY spies can do is fly gliders. So you tank never will. Thats the breaks too.

Dont confuse HAVING a MC5 chip (which everyone can do) with being able to freely attack the MC5 commander. To different acts.
a CS can, however, be obtained by a tank - by killing mobs, any mob of a certain rank, and gathering the parts and/or trading for them. MC5 parts can only be obtained in MC5, and are only (generally) tradeable for other MC5 parts. MC5 parts are unique, do not confuse them with any other aspect of the game such as normal rare-part trading or hunting. yes, you need the help of others such as researchers and consters, but this is a minor intervention - you don't have to hand the entire enterprise over to someone else.I bet your tank has to hand all of his MC5 and non-MC5 tech parts over to a Spy. He sure as hell cant do it himself.

In terms of minor- have you traded for and assembled a MC5 full chip? I assure you that isnt a "minor intervention" and it can often take longer than actually getting the techs to begin with.

Unless you are suggesting that Tanks and APUs are the only ones to ever do any part trading in the game... and clearly we know that isnt the case.
perhaps i do not want, or expect, clanmates to obtain my items for me. perhaps i want to fend for myself. perhaps i play a PE which is not a support class and does not, generally, need or like to be bottle-fed and bum-wiped by another player(s) in order to get the items he needs. PEs are VERY self sufficient, that is the point of the class, therefore they should not need help to obtain "their" MC5 parts.This is a teamwork game- look at all of the changes to it. Specialization... I wont go over it again since Carinth already explained all of this.

EDIT: here are the patch notes talking about roles, down at the bottom:
http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=198

I am glad YOU like to think of yourself as self-sufficient, and its your right to CHOOSE to be offended when a clanmates tries to help you out.

But should tanks be offended when they fight over an op but only some non-tank can hack it to take control? Should a tank be offended when he has to be healed by a PPU?

No- cause of specialization and roles.

Go back through the patch notes and see how they describe the Spy and PE. Neither of them are listed as damage dealers and damage absorbers. And the Spy is actually listed as a primarily support role, via droning or sniping and tradeskills.

So why should a support char be able to do well in the toughest combat oriented area of the game?
KK want the game to be team-oriented, but they also want and encourage solo-play. i see nothing - absolutely nothing - else in this game that is useful content, and in some cases NECESSARY content, and yet only obtainable by teaming very specific classes together.MC5 for one. ;)

Ops cannot be taken by one person, and that is the main focus of the game in KKs eyes.

The high end caves can be solo'd by some runners, but that is a testament to runner skill mostly, not just a factual aspect of that class (i.e. not every single tank can solo the caves).
on this we almost agree, but change "building" to "obtaining".Ah, no... change it to "obtaining on their own."

You are missing the point here, or at least trying to avoid it. Tanks MUST rely on others to build their weapons for them. So others rely on tanks to absorb a lot of damage and deal a lot of damage with those weapons. Its symbiotic.

Tanks go out and harvest the MC5 chips, and they need Spies to put them together and implant them and repair them.

Seriously- given the specialized role of spies, that sounds like it works out pretty well to me.
i am not having trouble, since i don't really want one badly enough to go through the hell of acquiring one. i have a tank, and an apu, but i'm fooked if i'm going to waste my time, or the time of a PPU that should surely have better things to do. and, as i already stated, i believe it does not make RP sense for this to happen.See, now here you describe it as hell, yet above you act like standing around in MC5 is the most desireable thing in the whole game... and its a shame spies cant waste all of their time there like everyone else can.

I know what you are saying, but its still a bit odd. I am sure plenty of spies are pleased they can sit back and assemble their SA or Hawk while their tank clanmates are out camping MC5 cause they are the only ones that can.
obviously those people got someone else to do it. in the case of a tradeskiller, this is entirely appropriate, in both general logic and an RP sense. in all other cases, i feel, it is not appropriate - see my comments regarding hand-holding and nappy-changing above.Right, you like being self-sufficient, that is fine. As long as you call teamwork "hand-holding" then yeah, you wont ever be happy with the fact that your PE is simply not a primary damage dealer or damage absorber, and therefore cannot solo MC5.

If you come to terms and realize that being self-sufficient in MOST circumstances means you sacrafice being self-sufficient in extreme circumstances... then you will be at peace with this. You cant be good at almost everything as a PE *and* be able to survive something as extreme as MC5. Sorry, that doesnt even make sense in terms of RP or anything else.

Tanks/APUs/PPUs survive there because they sacrafice most other things in order to absorb and deal damage.
i would say that the effort of an entire clan is justified for clan or faction related purposes - holding OPs, clan missions, defending faction HQs and so on. i do not feel it appropriate that all that effort be necessarily put to the obtaining of a single item, obviously you do, and you are entitled to that opinion.Its not a single item, for clarification. Its the obtaining of implants for everyone in the clan that needs them/wants them.

Now if a clan is selfish, then maybe the leader is only after stuff HE needs and doesnt care about the other members or something. Thats fine- I cannot speak for that.

But with a good clan, everyone plays a role and is involved.

And yes, our opinions differ and thats fine. I still say you are expecting too much from a PE in terms of capabilities. If a PE could be self-sufficient AND survive MC5, then that certainly would be an overpowered character. The APUY/Tank/PPU that CAN survive MC5 are not self-sufficient like a PE. Its a trade-off.

[Jest]

Did you know facetious is the only word in the english language with every vowel appearing in it exactly once, and in order? If you count 'y', then facetiously.
I just wanted to point out the hard core ownage that just took place in case any one missed it. I mean, ouch, that ones gonna leave a mark.

[s0apy]

I just wanted to point out the hard core ownage that just took place in case any one missed it. I mean, ouch, that ones gonna leave a mark.

i am suitably chastised (please sir, may i have another). i'm hoping the mark will form a cute strawberry shape, just above my right buttock, visible in a thong or bikini brief.

i suspect our views are broadly similar, and i take all your points and must, largely, agree with them. MC5 is a haven for tanks, apus and ppus, no question. however it is also, sadly, apparantly what passes for high-level content in this game (which i still love dearly, even after some years now of play). my entire point, effectively, is that i'd personally enjoy some high-level content that my favourite class can enjoy in that classes own particular way. clearly those with a vested interest in the status quo would disagree, so be it.

on the subject of team play, and solo play. i hear nothing that disuades me that solo play is non-viable in this game. i pitch my oar in when others need help, or when called on to do so, the rest of the time i do my own thing. i've played that way for a year or so now, and i'm happy enough.

i cannot subscribe to the doctrine that the game MUST be played in teams or in clans. as an individual, i can still join crahn, do the run, obtain the item and switch back to my starting faction. no team play necessary - not even another player required for a trade. again though, of questionable RP logic.

perhaps i'm a dieing breed, or a lone voice of a quiet minority.

anyway, greater minds than me (jernau) have also pointed out that MC5 needs to be more inclusive to other classes, and have not been shot down for it. again, so be it. if i personally must be the brunt of your derision, fine.

[Strych9]

anyway, greater minds than me (jernau) have also pointed out that MC5 needs to be more inclusive to other classes, and have not been shot down for it. again, so be it. if i personally must be the brunt of your derision, fine.I was responding to the specific comments you made, and the analysis you provided.

Jernau simply stated he thinks that it should be more open, but provided no reasons as why. Due to him only making a statement, rather than an argument, he wasnt responded to.

So you are the "brunt of our derision" because you said more than "yeah, I agree." Had Jernau gave reasons to back up his statement, they would have been responded to in kind.

So dont take it personally. We are here to discuss. And frankly, my comment about facetious was just a tidbit.. no chastising or anything. :D