View Full Version : Parra shocker
Right this is a topic that comes up time and time and time again everyone hates to be guled to the floor . It sucks to be parra shocked and parra shocked again till you got no drugs left to counter it . On the other had if its your enemy thats parra shocked its like w00t easy kill that attitude is starting to piss me OFF! if the enemy could not parra neither could you so every one is equal. Why the fuck is parra needed other that to piss people off every time I see ppu's I just run I don't like ppu's I don't fight with them cos every damn time I see them holding there blue swirly. It fucking sucks its non PVP it kills PVP and for so long we have had this utter crap feature I refuse to live with it its bullshit. A good pvper is reduced to utter crap in 1 second with a ppu cos of parra I don't mind if tanks are buffed by the ppu it just makes it more challenging. But parra shock can be binned I hate it and so does many others PPU's will disagree cos they suck at ppu so they use parra to compensate for it. I could make a ppu that is unkillable and parra everyone just to piss them off PPU are supose to be there to support not glue people
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 02:04
I agree. Especially when the enemy can afford to paraspam, either because they have a ppu and you don't or they simply have more. Paraspam is worse. Has anyone NOT killed someone who was paraspammed? I always find them incredibly easy targets.
2k a drug. Doesn't stack. I can use up to 10 in one fight if the ppu is relentless, more in op wars. That's like 20k.
PPUs already bring a stupidly outrageous advantage to the team their on without parashock. Another thing is, parashock to me is an offensive aggressive spell. It shouldn't be a ppu spell. That's like giving a rare rifle to tanks. It should either be removed, made for pvm only, or changed to be "truly" defensive. Not "I choose you to be supar slow, hahaha I already spammed you 3 times, so now you have to go to your inventory and take a drug by which time you will already be dead". :rolleyes:
If it HAS to stay the way it is, ya know because people can't aim, then at least make drugs cheaper, make them STACK, and take away drug flash.
Dribble Joy
05-05-04, 02:05
First, punctuation is your friend.
It does not help out cause when you put foreward you arguments in the big block of text as shown above.
Second, yes, remove it and/or make it PvM only.
It serves no other purpose other than to make the ease of killing an enemy greater, while reducing his/her capacity to fight back to next to nothing.
Skill at the game is removed, and in this skill based PvP game, this is simply unacceptable.
NO I LOVE pArA, StOp posTiNg abOuT It
make it only work on mobs.
problem solved.
The thing is, a tank could have para.
What do I mean with this?
Well a PPU always teams up with somebody, would this be a tank, then the tank would have para skill, and it sucks. IT SUCKS I TELL YOU!
I think they should make it work on ppl who whining about it so they get pissed and quit and stop flooding forums with useless posts, no offence but i think that teh sig saying remove para is enough to show kk how much ya all hate it.
First, punctuation is your friend.
It does not help out cause when you put foreward you arguments in the big block of text as shown above.
Second, yes, remove it and/or make it PvM only.
It serves no other purpose other than to make the ease of killing an enemy greater, while reducing his/her capacity to fight back to next to nothing.
Skill at the game is removed, and in this skill based PvP game, this is simply unacceptable.
ah sorry if it hurts your eyes I did read it myslef and found it hard but still its readable I will take make my posts alot more readable in future :o
Anyway with what someone else posted ppu giving a team a stupid advantage over a non ppu team. This is what I think pisses me off and many others I mean I like to pvp alot in the pvp hotspots like pepper park and raiding TG MB and what not. But they got a ppu I just turn around get out of there or fight too the death depends on how much money I got really. Holy heal is a joke I could shoot a tank with overpowed earp explosive mod and do jack shit cos the ppu is healing him. Theres another thing I'm a lowtech pe the damn earp explosive mod is overpowered I can take anyone down 1 vs 1 with it there something wrong with it yet with the patch how long will they take too fix it. Months another thing you guys at KK can't workout a slight boost WTF? I wanna kill people but not in less than 30 seconds with 6 or 6 hits with earp
Whitestuff
05-05-04, 02:31
1. Make it work as it does now on mobs. Slow them down to nothing, that's fine, the computer doesn't care, it'll just spawn 5 replicants around you if you piss it of.....
2. REDUCE the effect on players, do not remove it. Right now, I see that para reduces runspeed to lower than a 0/2 n00b. That's wrong, but removing it isn't that viable of an option either, cause some PE's and spies can already look like they are teleprting around the screen, they should be slowed a little bit for gods sake. Also the anti shock drugs need to stack in order to deal with it better. This way, when you get shocked you are vulnerable for a few seconds, then you down a drug, you are good to go again for a stacked time. Not totally out of the fight, but not fully combat effective either.
^^ So to sum up, make para still slow people down, but only knock off like in actuality 25 AGL or ATL to slow them down some, but not drop them to 0, as it does now.
/rant off
H-C, R-C, and P-C freezers are a little wank.
Melee freezers are perfectly balanced.
Parashock goes way over the top.
This is the stuff that pisses me off that unbalances the game
Parra shock Total bullshit lamer overkill
Earp modded explosive overkill no skill reqired
Executioner WTF no resist will help you a slight boost? BS
Raverger WTF slight boost? erm no KK try fucking playing this game
ROG PE's love this cos its overpowered
I'm a lowtech Pe I could make a stupid overpowered lamer setup and use frezzer pistols to piss people off cos thats all it does
This is the stuff that pisses me off that unbalances the game
Parra shock Total bullshit lamer overkill
Earp modded explosive overkill no skill reqired
Executioner WTF no resist will help you a slight boost? BS
Raverger WTF slight boost? erm no KK try fucking playing this game
ROG PE's love this cos its overpowered
I'm a lowtech Pe I could make a stupid overpowered lamer setup and use frezzer pistols to piss people off cos thats all it does
<3
You forgot the Devourer aswell, no skill required. Total Bullshit.
yeah Benjie when I get a SA chip when MC5 open I'm gonna be a twat to piss people off till then nerf these overpowed weapons its not even a joke pistol spys can do crazy damage with the executioner nad still cast shelter and use inq 1 armor its BS the out damages all PE's in the game. I heard Melee is getting its Teck lvl raised OMG WTF are you trying to do KK its fine as it is in fact its overpower imo paw of bear what ever it is does crazy damage and all melee tanks are stupidly fast you cant hit them.
<3
You forgot the Devourer aswell, no skill required. Total Bullshit.
for all I care they could give the dev back its previous power.
it sucked then, it sucks now..
for all I care they could give the dev back its previous power.
it sucked then, it sucks now..
naimax I think you just need to learn how too aim the old damge it did was stupid really it was its like no one even a ppu could survie it total BS weapon killed all but really good ppu's. Now its hightech pe's that piss me off with SA they can kill many people with executioner and stealth as a lowtech I have no chance 6 hits I'm gone even less sometimes. Its stupid becuase no class or runner should have that power hell If I had a SA I could run through MB or TG and kill everyone and this has happended.
naimax I think you just need to learn how too aim the old damge it did was stupid really it was its like no one even a ppu could survie it total BS weapon killed all but really good ppu's. Now its hightech pe's that piss me off with SA they can kill many people with executioner and stealth as a lowtech I have no chance 6 hits I'm gone even less sometimes. Its stupid becuase no class or runner should have that power hell If I had a SA I could run through MB or TG and kill everyone and this has happended.
Kewl, so once you've finished whining about Parashock, you're going to change your sig to "REMOVE HITECH PE'S!". Get a grip, stop whining, some of the best PE's in the game ever, have been LowTech PE's and have NEVER had a problem with taking down Tech PE's with stealth :rolleyes:
Kewl, so once you've finished whining about Parashock, you're going to change your sig to "REMOVE HITECH PE'S!". Get a grip, stop whining, some of the best PE's in the game ever, have been LowTech PE's and have NEVER had a problem with taking down Tech PE's with stealth :rolleyes:
Oh I play lowtech allright it was fine then they overpowered certain hightech weapons now the lib is usless I guess I will follow what KK wants all PE's hightech here we go I can be even more overpowered with that. I allready got a hightech setup planed out and it will let me frezze you blast you too shit in seconds O_o
Not me it wont, my PE's been inactive since last year, expired in Feb, and was also rifle, and won at Fight Night against [TgR]Killer, me using a tangent gat rifle, him a pain easer, also works well against judge users etc. Its nothing to do with what weapon the other person uses, its how you use the weapons you have.
the game is unbalanced I will show you that trust me
tangent gat rifle eh hrhr come beat me with that I'll give you 1 M maybe more :rolleyes:
tomparadox
05-05-04, 04:08
I think they should make it work on ppl who whining about it so they get pissed and quit and stop flooding forums with useless posts, no offence but i think that teh sig saying remove para is enough to show kk how much ya all hate it.
if kk gets that we hate it then why the hell is it still in the game? make it only work on mobs and itl solv a lot of problems.
edit > IMO they should quit fucking with its stats and make it mob only or get rid of the damn thing...
whats whit thise whining noobs that got there ass kicked shess para is part of the game take it or leave it bloody noobs :mad:
Indrid Cold
05-05-04, 04:36
These para threads are retarded. Unless you have something new to add (aside from your own bitch story), it's all been said 100 times.
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 05:28
para is part of the game take it or leave it
So were overpowered hybrids, and lots of other overpowered stuff. That doesn't make it ok, just because it's part of the game.
:wtf:
yea learn to avoid it. I'd tell you how but it is more fun watching people whine.
Original monk
05-05-04, 09:13
These para threads are retarded. Unless you have something new to add (aside from your own bitch story), it's all been said 100 times.
Amen,
Indrid dont waste to much time here ok, we all know parashockthreads are useless cause kk wont change em anyway (MJS is a PPU probably :) ) not to even mention those petetic "remove para" and "remove whinor" sig's ... + they take away youre individuality on the forums and they are plain ugly (consider it spam), all of em ...
and @ SD: hybrids where overpowered ... but there been like 20 diffrent kinds ... they kept changing em and then completely removed em ... then they where back with the kamichips ... then they nerfed kami's ... now there all back but unviable ...
they yust keep fucking em around ... and yeah the first hybrid i played was balanced ... but all the onces after sucked bigtime balancewise ... this was when the rare's where introduced and hybrids could have HL and parashockbeam/lysis etc ...
but how it is now: isnt a solution at all ...
Im also on the remove para bandwaggon.
But if they dont wanna remove it why dont they restore freezers to their original freeze %'s?
That'll start a whining flood...
Remember whan a tank's freezer cannon could glue you to the ground? that would probably be the only weapon that could work against a PPU now.
- Napalm
Dribble Joy
05-05-04, 10:59
whats whit thise whining noobs that got there ass kicked shess para is part of the game take it or leave it bloody noobs :mad:
*sigh*
(btw, shess?)
Rather than slagging off people who want it removed (whiners or not), why don't you give us your reason for keeping it in? (other than the utterly lame 'it's part of the game')
What reason is there, do you see, for retaining para in all it's forms?
Fighting anyone accompanied by a ppu whilst you are alone is foolish . the classes are meant to support one another . If you want a ppu team down you need a ranged class to chip on the ppu so that they are too busy trying to survive rather than parashocking you . The case this evening which i witnessed was a ppu droner team . ppu would parashock then damage boost while mosquito attacked . only one time did i see anyone attack the drone rather than the ppu , which is exactly how it should ahve been done . Again the ppu droner team rose victorious because everyone attacked single file . no teams came in defense , just one at a time . Dont blame parashock for poor tactics . I do think its overpowered , but hardly unbeatable , if you fight ppu teams with teams . A ranged fighter and a tank would ahve made quick work there .
The way i see it now is parashock is a ppu way of defending themself from attack . A necessary tool for a ppu caught alone that is in need of escape .
Perhaps tone down the ammount of damage the para does . As others have said maybe a loss of 10-20 agil and ath . But no reason to remove it because everyone wants to be rambo and fight alone .
sir retail
05-05-04, 11:26
Right this is a topic that comes up time and time and time again everyone hates to be guled to the floor . It sucks to be parra shocked and parra shocked again till you got no drugs left to counter it . On the other had if its your enemy thats parra shocked its like w00t easy kill that attitude is starting to piss me OFF! if the enemy could not parra neither could you so every one is equal. Why the fuck is parra needed other that to piss people off every time I see ppu's I just run I don't like ppu's I don't fight with them cos every damn time I see them holding there blue swirly. It fucking sucks its non PVP it kills PVP and for so long we have had this utter crap feature I refuse to live with it its bullshit. A good pvper is reduced to utter crap in 1 second with a ppu cos of parra I don't mind if tanks are buffed by the ppu it just makes it more challenging. But parra shock can be binned I hate it and so does many others PPU's will disagree cos they suck at ppu so they use parra to compensate for it. I could make a ppu that is unkillable and parra everyone just to piss them off PPU are supose to be there to support not glue people
why dont we take out all weapons.. it will be even more safe for everyone.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Someone gets killed...
Parashock is used in the fight...
Subsequent forum rant ensues.
Same shit different day.
People forget that everyone gets parashocked day in and day out. We all have to deal with it. Hopefully it will be addressed sometime in the future.
IF I get this community committee sorted... rest-assured this will be the first question asked of KK. Right now unless there is any new information to support the remove para stance adopted by so many people in the community... we don't need to hear any more about it.
Original monk
05-05-04, 11:34
why dont we take out all weapons.. it will be even more safe for everyone.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
after tank-o-cron, monk-o-cron, pe-o-cron we finally get TRADE-O-CRON !
sir retail
05-05-04, 12:00
after tank-o-cron, monk-o-cron, pe-o-cron we finally get TRADE-O-CRON !
so what would you like to trade than.. if there are no weapons..
it was a joke ...
8|
Original monk
05-05-04, 12:08
so what would you like to trade than.. if there are no weapons..
it was a joke ...
8|
trade-o-cron like in: EVERYONE TRADESKILLER !!!
would be fun also: vetterox bragging on the forums: i get better qualitypercentages then you: OWNED !!!
scikar goin like: i aint making parashockBP's for no-one !
and more stuff like that, i can imagine completely :P
anyway sir retail, mine was also a joke ... i aint funny lol, i know by know :P
(and yours was more like a joke/sarcasm towards lilT's wonderfull balancing para idea's :rolleyes: ya see: i did understand it correctly :P )
9 outta 10 im sarcastic retail, but not this time :)
have fun, and trad-o-cron would be fun for a day i think, yust to see the PKers selling there goodies, offering there services :)
anyway, have fun postin
sir retail
05-05-04, 12:28
trade-o-cron like in: EVERYONE TRADESKILLER !!!
would be fun also: vetterox bragging on the forums: i get better qualitypercentages then you: OWNED !!!
scikar goin like: i aint making parashockBP's for no-one !
and more stuff like that, i can imagine completely :P
anyway sir retail, mine was also a joke ... i aint funny lol, i know by know :P
(and yours was more like a joke/sarcasm towards lilT's wonderfull balancing para idea's :rolleyes: ya see: i did understand it correctly :P )
9 outta 10 im sarcastic retail, but not this time :)
have fun, and trad-o-cron would be fun for a day i think, yust to see the PKers selling there goodies, offering there services :)
anyway, have fun postin
sorry for it... but i did understand you made a joke.. :lol:
couldnt help my self.
many others PPU's will disagree cos they suck at ppu so they use parra to compensate for it
Thats probably why your tank runs arround with a shop-bought assault rifle instead of using a CS....oh hang on? you use one of the best weapons available to your class? the CS? ahh ...that probably means you suck and therefore you need to compensate by using a multi-slot rare.... I get you now! *thumbsup* :p
steweygrrr
05-05-04, 12:52
Naimex I think you just need to learn how to aim. The old damage it did was stupid really it was its like no one, even a ppu could survive it. Total BS weapon killed all but really good ppu's
1. You have never fought Naimex have you? It shows, believe me.
2. Since when could a dev kill a good PPU. Even as an average PPU (i.e I still die) I haven't once died to a dev wielding tank, either before the fix or after. So I REALLY can't see a good PPU dying to one.
and
3. Yes either remove para, make it PvM only or reduce its effectiveness to 1/3 outside of PvM as other weapons are.
Dribble Joy
05-05-04, 13:07
v[ortice']Someone gets killed...
Parashock is used in the fight...
Subsequent forum rant ensues.
Same shit different day.
This is what annoys me, people come to the forums and 'whine'.
Others jump at the chance to use these whines as an argument to support their otherwise unsupportable stance on whatever subject it may be.
I have yet to see a single truely valid reason to keep Para in game.
What have we had so far?
It's part of the game, you can't remove it. - Oh please...
I need it to run away, as a ppu I will be fucked if caught unbuffed - If you are that bad a ppu, you deserve to die.
it can be countered by drugs and ppu spells - Useless, totally useless. Even as an instant acting stackable drug, the few seconds or less will render you at the mercy of the para users. The anti spells are a bunch of wank, because the delay from getting stunned and getting destunned is too long.
Many others.
How can the near complete removal of the victims skills, along with rendering them to a snail like pace, so that you require no skill to dispatch them, be balanced? Or fair?
Fair you say? He who paras first wins? Isn't that fair?
Fuck no.
Why should the outcome of PvP depend soley on this one weapon?
A fight outcome totally only effected by parashock?
Can I suggest you get some skills our than the +10 Whineafuckability. See if you have skills, you know like the ability to aim rather than to type whine, Then fights usually are effected by Dah de dum. PLAYER SKILL.
But wait Gestra the peasant massive whimper, Your parashock takes away our skill.
No No you stupid ignorant peon fools. It does not take away skill. It creates a challenge for you to adapt to and overcome.
Huh?
Say you have an mc5 chip and another player doesn't say you have a rare weapon and another player does not, You now have an advantage over them.
But but thats fair....
Either way it is not an automatic lose for the person, the same way being parashock does not automatically kill a good players. Guess the fuck what, parashock it slows you down it does not insta kill you.
But but slowed down Gestra sir, that is so unfair, Why should a person be allowed to have an advantage over me.
Your set up and equipment can give you an advantage over other players no?
Umm.
Fin.
People dont want parashocked removed, They want skill, challenge, equality fairness removed from the game. Guess the fuck what, this is not a pure FPS, so pure FPS skills are not all that is needed. People should try thinking rather than whining, adapting rather than whining.
Exe Pes overpowered? hahahahaha. Maybe it just that you are shit lil T ? implant set up wont change that.
People say there is no good reason for parashock there is many, these choose to ingore them and argue from there own little hole of blindness refusing to see what actually is.
Oh and is there not a parashock thread on the front page allready?
A fight outcome totally only effected by parashock?
Can I suggest you get some skills our than the +10 Whineafuckability. See if you have skills, you know like the ability to aim rather than to type whine, Then fights usually are effected by Dah de dum. PLAYER SKILL.
But wait Gestra the peasant massive whimper, Your parashock takes away our skill.
No No you stupid ignorant peon fools. It does not take away skill. It creates a challenge for you to adapt to and overcome.
Huh?
Say you have an mc5 chip and another player doesn't say you have a rare weapon and another player does not, You now have an advantage over them.
But but thats fair....
Either way it is not an automatic lose for the person, the same way being parashock does not automatically kill a good players. Guess the fuck what, parashock it slows you down it does not insta kill you.
But but slowed down Gestra sir, that is so unfair, Why should a person be allowed to have an advantage over me.
Your set up and equipment can give you an advantage over other players no?
Umm.
Fin.
People dont want parashocked removed, They want skill, challenge, equality fairness removed from the game. Guess the fuck what, this is not a pure FPS, so pure FPS skills are not all that is needed. People should try thinking rather than whining, adapting rather than whining.
Exe Pes overpowered? hahahahaha. Maybe it just that you are shit lil T ? implant set up wont change that.
People say there is no good reason for parashock there is many, these choose to ingore them and argue from there own little hole of blindness refusing to see what actually is.
Oh and is there not a parashock thread on the front page allready?
Arrrgh Gestra damn you !!!
Now I got the hick-ups from laughing :lol: :lol:
Can I suggest you get some skills our than the +10 Whineafuckability....
Exe Pes overpowered? hahahahaha. Maybe it just that you are shit lil T ? implant set up wont change that.
?
ROFL..
[ edited ]
BTW what chip gives you +10 Whineafuckability.....??
:lol:
Parashock Exists as does the antishock Drug...Live with it.
Dribble Joy
05-05-04, 14:33
A fight outcome totally only effected by parashock?
Pretty much yes.
Can I suggest you get some skills our than the +10 Whineafuckability. See if you have skills, you know like the ability to aim rather than to type whine, Then fights usually are effected by Dah de dum. PLAYER SKILL.
Not if player skill has been removed.
But wait Gestra the peasant massive whimper, Your parashock takes away our skill.
No No you stupid ignorant peon fools. It does not take away skill.
How?
(peons? is your vocabulary all you have to stand up for your arguemnet)
It creates a challenge for you to adapt to and overcome.
How? Drugs? Fuck off.
Huh?
Say you have an mc5 chip and another player doesn't say you have a rare weapon and another player does not, You now have an advantage over them.
But but thats fair....
Oh look, useing a separate issue to argue another.
PvP is to an extent based on equipement. As a succesful player/person you should be willing to put the effort in (like I have, I traded for all my MC5 parts, I only have a capped pistol PE), in order to gain them.
Besides, you do not NEED an MC5, you do not NEED a rare.
Either way it is not an automatic lose for the person, the same way being parashock does not automatically kill a good players. Guess the fuck what, parashock it slows you down it does not insta kill you.
Have you been paraed?
Just wondering.
You = slow, no turning speed = cannot hit anyone at all, sitting duck = you full of HLs, CSs and Exec blasts, that would normally have missed.
But but slowed down Gestra sir, that is so unfair, Why should a person be allowed to have an advantage over me.
Because that isn't fair combat.
In fair combat the skill of the user (and to an extent char, see above, anyone with a care about his PvP viability should put in the effort), is the determining factor.
Your set up and equipment can give you an advantage over other players no?
No, you set them up to be as good as you can make them, if others have not put in the effort to do the same then they will loose.
Skill is all encompassing. Not just how l33t your aim is.
You can read I presume?
On what basis is Para keeping skill, challenge, equality and fairness in the game?
[quote]Guess the fuck what, this is not a pure FPS,
No it's a FPSMMORPG
so pure FPS skills are not all that is needed.
You PvP right?
To an extent you are right, char and item setup is important, but it is secondary.
People should try thinking rather than whining, adapting rather than whining.
How exactly?
Yet again you provide no solution, you simply tells us to do it?
What do you do?
Drugs? you carry 10 in your QB, your enemies stop while you open your inventory to get another while you are glued to the floor?
Stealth?
PPU strapped to your arse cheeks?
Exe Pes overpowered? hahahahaha. Maybe it just that you are shit lil T ? implant set up wont change that.
Exec is overpowered for it's TL, PEs can gain dex 113 and still (sometimes) have a ppr or movon in. That puts them at defences close to that of ROLH or even judge PEs.
This in turn overpowers the PEs.
Make the Exec dex 120, out of the reach of PEs and a true spy weapon.
People say there is no good reason for parashock there is many,
An example?
Again, no reasons given by the Pro para side.
these choose to ingore them and argue from there own little hole of blindness refusing to see what actually is.
Which is?
Please enlighten us with your thoughts. if you actually possess any.
Oh and is there not a parashock thread on the front page allready?
And?
Does this not show peoples opinions on the subject?
Oh no, of course not, they are just whiners. They don't have valid or meaningfull opinions of their own.
Peoples dissatisfaction with the system cannot be listened to, they must be branded whiners.
Make do and mend, can't strive for happyness or some balance can we.
edit//
ROFL..
Totaly Agree Gestra. LIL T just trying to get his Nooby Forum Post count up by trauling Old Over discussed issues.
BTW what chip gives you +10 Whineafuckability.....??
:lol:
Parashock Exists as does the antishock Drug...Live with it.
Oh look more people slagging of the whiners, but providing no arguement of their own. :rolleyes:
Oh look more people slagging of the whiners, but providing no arguement of their own. :rolleyes:
Because it has all been said already. Currently it is well balanced enough. Drugs and understanding the spell counter the effect enough to make it not that big a deal.
Anyway, para is just used a lot by people because they know they can get a negative response from people who are unable to think of a tactic to deal with it.
Dribble Joy
05-05-04, 14:48
Drugs are simply not good enough, and when you run out in your QB you have to remain stationery to reload, by which time you are dead.
People will spam you untill you are out of drugs, it is simply a matter of time, time where you could be haveing a nice clean FUN fight.
Even if drugs were the answer, the simple act of getting shocked over and over, having to chug pills over and over, it's boring and not fun.
We want balance AND fun.
(In fact you would have been dead long ago after the flash hits, but I won't use that as an argument.)
There is the STA draining idea, but I am iffy on that one.
Drugs are simply not good enough, and when you run out in your QB you have to remain stationery to reload, by which time you are dead.
People will spam you untill you are out of drugs, it is simply a matter of time, time where you could be haveing a nice clean FUN fight.
First up, unless they changed the game recently you cannot spam para. You can certainly keep casting it over and over (with long spell time) but only holy para is supposed to have the serious glue effect. Meanwhile your PPU can do dick else. All other para spells are supposed to have little to no effect compared to glued to the ground* (I say supposed as I am not aware of any recent changes that have put it back to the way it was).
Second. If you know they are going to spam over and over then you have to change your tactics to stop them from using all your drugs or quite simply leave and get more people.
General rules I follow are.
#1 Almost always ignore the PPU.
A good PPU can withstand most anything you can throw at them, however without thier team mates alive they are nothing more then a mild annoyance. So everyone should whack on the damage dealer. If you can stack the players on one damage dealer then attack the next. You get glued, live with it. If it is you vs another+ppu then your already at a disadvantage to begin with.
#2 Understand the para spells.
Understand the casting time based on the PPU your fighting. Understand how the para hits the body for the spell used. For example Holy Para hits you on the feet when the spell casts, so if you are jumping you can avoid the blast, others are line of sight (even though the PPU doesn't need LOS to target, they do to hit). Also understand the casting time better, if a PPU is casting para your first instinct is to run as far away from the PPU as possible, The para still hits however you have drawn the damage dealer a good distance away from the PPU while also moving the PPU out of casting range. If you the time when it is about to hit you as well you can stack a drug causing 0 effect from the para and giving you some breathing room to take out the damage dealer.
Other then that, anything that can piss the PPU off in casting, stick close to the PPU or damage dealer while fighting. Thier splash damage+making it hard to target you can help counter a spell hitting you.
Even if drugs were the answer, the simple act of getting shocked over and over, having to chug pills over and over, it's boring and not fun.
Unless the problem is still in the game to my knowledge you can't spam para anymore.
.. but the copout for most people is to come onto the forums and just bleet thier hearts out to have the game destroyed because of lack of tactical skill.
Original monk
05-05-04, 15:26
yust wanted to say that parashock has never killed me in my life ... normally i yust keep fighting ...
its the 20 tanks and monks that see a parashocked player crawling away to the zoneline that kill ya :P
... mostly i yust keep fighting like always ... unless its ffcourse a ppu + apu/tank team thats focussing on you ... but then its never clever to stay in the area ... better go log youre apumonkey first then and kill the nibppu that had the guts to shock ya (so he knows he better dont do that again cause even with all he's fancy spells he will die) and after that you can resume pounding on the ppuless tank or apu :)
im a pvpnib and even i can do this :)
so to all you guys claiming youre such killermachine's : scared of 1 stupid spell ? hehe, then go tradeskill :)
yust stirring up a bit
The best thing para shock does is allow you to kill a ppu... Otherwise they will always get away from you.
Keep Para, just sort out the drug flash.
And 2k a drug is not expensive, If you cant afford it then dont PvP...
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 17:42
Fighting anyone accompanied by a ppu whilst you are alone is foolish .
I agree. But many times you will fight a few people by themselves and win, and one comes back with a PPU.
If you want a ppu team down you need a ranged class to chip on the ppu so that they are too busy trying to survive rather than parashocking you .
I'm starting to question your pvp experience now.
A ranged class "chipping" on a ppu won't distract him. The ppu can take tons of punishment. And he is definitely not gonna struggle to survive.
A ranged fighter and a tank would ahve made quick work there .
Are you serious? *sigh*
A ppu worth his salt can easily defend his "partner" against 3-4-5 people.
You really think a ranged "fighter" and a tank will win? Lmfao. Sure, if the ppu is abysmal in skill.
The way i see it now is parashock is a ppu way of defending themself from attack . A necessary tool for a ppu caught alone that is in need of escape .
A PPU can escape just fine without parashock. If it's against one person, they can't kill the ppu if the ppu is half decent. If he tries to run, he has to stop and paralyze them. It's quiet possible for that person to still chase the ppu across the whole zone, because para takes a while and takes alot of mana.
If the ppu is against a team. Parashock won't help him escape either.
What truly helps the ppu is escape, is a BIT of a skill combined with his shelter+heal.
Parashock for escape. Give me a break. IF that's truly all you cared about, then why not change parashock to be much more defensive. Like a very low rof spell that costs tons of mana that parashocks anyone who attacks the ppu and lasts 10 seconds. That way it's truly defensive.
Anyway, para is just used a lot by people because they know they can get a negative response from people who are unable to think of a tactic to deal with it.
That doesn't even make any sense. All you keep saying is "unable to think of a tactic, unable to use strategy". You either use drugs or you don't.
Even if you pop a drug when you see the spell being cast, it still won't help much. The biggest issue is paraspam and drug haze, combined with drugs not stacking.
If you get paraspammed, their comes a point where you gotta go to your inv and take the stupid drug. Then you can easily die in the 1-2 seconds you're parashock.
And about leaving and getting more numbers. What if you have 6 people, and there's an apu/ppu+ppu team? So you have twice their numbers, but they can easily spam you to hell and back. Oh what, get more people? Thanks for showing how rediculously overpowered ppus are. I've been with a ppu, and i've taken out group after group who didn't have a ppu. I can kill a tank in like 2 seconds if he's DBed and parashocked, even while 4-5 other people hit me or try to hit me. Even before his drug kicks in, with HL + DB + him not moving it only takes like 2 seconds to kill him. Skill? PUH Leeze. APU+PPU is rediculous power. Don't even get me started on tank+ppu. A good tank+ppu team will not die unless the tank is spammed with antibuff. Have you seen a well setup tank with ppus buffs? :eek:
Man I hope lupus's melee changes make it in. So that super fast poison melee TL 3 using tanks can make PPU life a living hell. As a matter of fact since about .95% of the ppu population is selfish and doesn't care about balance, I hope their are 20 more changes in the future that make it a sheer nightmare to be a ppu.
Btw great posts Dribble, but you won't get a good response from Gestra. Only vague posts and flamage. "OMFG YOU F**** NOOBS F*** B**** NEED OT LEARN HOW TO **** AND **** AND *****, NOOBS. USE TACTICS"
His posts are like hot air baloons, big but no content whatsoever.
One question for all of those who say parashock is for defense or escape. Would you opposed to my idea of making the spell more defensive and actually just for escape? You know, like an aura that lasts for 10 seconds, drains mana, but parashocks anyone who strikes the ppu.
You know, like an aura that lasts for 10 seconds, drains mana, but parashocks anyone who strikes the ppu.
Think I suggested this months ago. Its a better idea for using para as pure defensive. The downside to that is you those characters who are impossible to kill without gluing them to the spot will become godlike (ie. PPUs). So it needs something added to deal with that.
That doesn't even make any sense. All you keep saying is "unable to think of a tactic, unable to use strategy". You either use drugs or you don't.
No you use your head. Drugs will only get you so far. You also don't loose your head. When I am fighting people I try to make them get annoyed as I know it means they will make mistakes and not think correctly.
This gonna turn into an anti-ppu thread, lol.
Personally I feel Para is fine, its only really a bitch when you are caught off gaurd whilst lvling. In an OP fight you should have PPUs on your team that upon seeing you para'd should work to get you alive and buffed ready to kick the bitch's arse that para'd you. Condsidering I use both a PE and a PPU as my mains, I know what its like to be on both the receiving and giving ends of Para.
For all those peeps saying PPUs screw PvP: I was on my PE, and attacked a PE, a PPU, a Spy and a Tank in 2 Revellers lvling off WBs, and took the PE out without trouble, and took the PPU down to at least 1/2 health before fleeing. It was when the dumbass tank I had taken to under 1/2 health thought he should reload and open fire at me whilst I was after the PPU ¬_¬. Oh well, only died when both 4x4s came back fully buffed and chased me while I ran-cast my buffs. Personally, I knew I didn't stand a chance but if you can focus on a PPU whilst they are buffing themselves they are dead, as stated above.
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 18:22
No you use your head. Drugs will only get you so far. You also don't loose your head. When I am fighting people I try to make them get annoyed as I know it means they will make mistakes and not think correctly.
lol ok
Think I suggested this months ago. Its a better idea for using para as pure defensive. The downside to that is you those characters who are impossible to kill without gluing them to the spot will become godlike (ie. PPUs). So it needs something added to deal with that.
Like I said, mana drain. So they can't stay their forever, they have to leave.
For all those peeps saying PPUs screw PvP: I was on my PE, and attacked a PE, a PPU, a Spy and a Tank in 2 Revellers lvling off WBs, and took the PE out without trouble, and took the PPU down to at least 1/2 health before fleeing. It was when the dumbass tank I had taken to under 1/2 health thought he should reload and open fire at me whilst I was after the PPU ¬_¬. Oh well, only died when both 4x4s came back fully buffed and chased me while I ran-cast my buffs. Personally, I knew I didn't stand a chance but if you can focus on a PPU whilst they are buffing themselves they are dead, as stated above.
You know I killed a PE+PPU team at cycrow once. But it was a hollow victory, because they both really really sucked.
Can we stop using sucky ppus as an example of how "balanced" they are?
Can we stop using sucky ppus as an example of how "balanced" they are?
So by sucky you mean sitting in a vehicle minding his own business when I stealth up behind them and drop the PE, and take the remaining players down to around 1/2 health? I am sorry, I will make a post somewhere saying that PPUs should remained buffed at all times, whilst paying attention for stealth clouds and monitor closely the surrounding areas for any players that look like they could be doing something offensive. Don't be stupid.
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 18:53
Don't be stupid.
Brilliant arguement.
:rolleyes:
Funny you should make this comment, you should direct it towards the careless ppus that you manage to kill. I swear, their could be a class that kills in one hit, and if you manage to take one down kuz they suck you will probably say they are fine. :lol:
So by sucky you mean sitting in a vehicle minding his own business when I stealth up behind them and drop the PE, and take the remaining players down to around 1/2 health? I am sorry, I will make a post somewhere saying that PPUs should remained buffed at all times, whilst paying attention for stealth clouds and monitor closely the surrounding areas for any players that look like they could be doing something offensive.
PPUs should remain buffed at all times, or at least partially buffed. If he got dropped by ONE person, and a PE of all people, then yes he sucks.
And if he's not paying attention to his comrades or his surroundings, then yes either he sucks or he was just very careless that day.
Either wya it's a horrible horrible example. People always say don't judge ppus by the good ones or the top dogs, but they are quick to use some lame ass ppu as an example of how balanced they are. :rolleyes:
Brilliant arguement.
:rolleyes:
Thats why I said it.
Funny you should make this comment, you should direct it towards the careless ppus that you manage to kill. I swear, their could be a class that kills in one hit, and if you manage to take one down kuz they suck you will probably say they are fine. :lol:
Well, if all PPUs were super-powered and unkillable, then yes they are overbalanced. But seeing as you have to be good to master this power, then its pretty obvious they aren't overpowered. As my example shows, the PPU is not overbalance as they have minimal skill, ergo I could have dropped them fast if I wasn't using my BoH. Had it been a good PPU, I wouldn't have stood a chance.
Indrid Cold
05-05-04, 19:08
I think this pertains to this whole subject:
Clicky Me! (http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-12-13)
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 19:22
But seeing as you have to be good to master this power, then its pretty obvious they aren't overpowered.
Back in the days a hybrid had to be good to take down a large team. Did that make him any less overpowered? Nope.
Just because you have to be good to master something, doesn't mean it's balanced.
I killed many of the hybrids when they were careless or really sucked. That doesn't change the fact that the needed to be nerfed.
As my example shows, the PPU is not overbalance as they have minimal skill, ergo I could have dropped them fast if I wasn't using my BoH.
The ppu is not overpowered because they have minimal skill?
Oh my god. So sad.
Anyways, even a ppu of "decent" skill can still bring TOO much of an advantage to a fight, if the other team doesn't have a ppu. And if you say "will you need a ppu for the other team too" then thanks for proving my point.
I'm talking about decent-good ppus. Not the ones who die to one person. :rolleyes:
Had it been a good PPU, I wouldn't have stood a chance.
Had it been a decent ppu, you wouldn't have been able to kill him either. Even if you did kill him by surprise ganking him, what does that prove?
Please, come up with a real scenario. Like when the ppu is um aware. Since many people say ppus aren't supposed to be killable by one person, I guess that means pes are overpowered if you killed that ppu by yourself. Weee, I made a cool arguement. :rolleyes:
"omfg I killed a GM while he was sleeping, so that means have 255 in every skill is NOT OVERPOAWERED LOLO"
Same thing every time here. 70% of the community against parashock, with reasons behind it, 30% with such wisdom as "stop whining", "reroll to PPU so you have antipara spells", "use the drugs even if they do give you a drugflash after 2 uses, and 3 uses makes you run drunk", "get some skills". Yeah because there's soooo much skill involved avoiding parashock isn't there? :rolleyes:
Since many people say ppus aren't supposed to be killable by one person, I guess that means pes are overpowered if you killed that ppu by yourself. Weee, I made a cool arguement. :rolleyes:
So if PEs are overpowered, and PPUs are overpowered, then they are balanced in terms of PvP against each other. If they aren't, what is a balance character? Last time I checked you weren't the authority on what is balanced and un-balanced. If you don't like being beaten by a team with a PPU, get one yourself. If you can't beat a PPU with Para, don't go near PPUs. If you can do all of the above, shut the fuck up and stop whining.
EDIT (so its not a double post):
Same thing every time here. 70% of the community against parashock, with reasons behind it, 30% with such wisdom as "stop whining", "reroll to PPU so you have antipara spells", "use the drugs even if they do give you a drugflash after 2 uses, and 3 uses makes you run drunk", "get some skills". Yeah because there's soooo much skill involved avoiding parashock isn't there? :rolleyes:
Shame that 100% of KK don't care that 70% of their community are talking out of there arse about a perfectly good spell. Why not remove all things people don't like? People don't like being ganked, so lets remove all guns! Yeah, then there is no overpowered characters or anything. Damn I would hate to be in a MMORPG run by anti-para people, would be like "ONOZ! I got killed, guess I have to make pking a bannable offense" ¬_¬.
Shame that 100% of KK don't care that 70% of their community are talking out of there arse about a perfectly good spell. Why not remove all things people don't like? People don't like being ganked, so lets remove all guns! Yeah, then there is no overpowered characters or anything. Damn I would hate to be in a MMORPG run by anti-para people, would be like "ONOZ! I got killed, guess I have to make pking a bannable offense" ¬_¬.
Clam down mate, no need to go over the top. All I ask is that you give a good reason why parashock should stay, and discuss it. If we took your attitude to game balance then your wonderful PPU would not exist. You would still have nothing more than shelter, no blessed or holy spells, no armor beyond kevlar, spies would have 75 DEX, there would be no stealth, and Tanks would still be kings. But that's not balanced, and it's in threads like this that situations such as that are discussed. If you want to take the STFU argument go ahead, but if that's the stance everyone wants KK might as well take game balance back to the start of retail and let Tanks slaughter every other class again, day in, day out.
Same thing every time here. 70% of the community against parashock, with reasons behind it
Funny that, I have not seen one actual decent good or even well thought out reason behind removing it.
The funny thing is you only ever do see people whining about how they died. Sure seems its more of a skill issue than a parashock issue.
But of course the 70% are against it and everyone knows how the masses are always without fail right. I mean all over the world you can see the result of great mob behaviour, From riots in the UK to the killing fields of cambodia onto the race genocide in rwanda. Nothing quite like Group Thought to bring celebration and goodwill too the world.
Funny that, I have not seen one actual decent good or even well thought out reason behind removing it.
The funny thing is you only ever do see people whining about how they died. Sure seems its more of a skill issue than a parashock issue.
But of course the 70% are against it and everyone knows how the masses are always without fail right. I mean all over the world you can see the result of great mob behaviour, From riots in the UK to the killing fields of cambodia onto the race genocide in rwanda. Nothing quite like Group Thought to bring celebration and goodwill too the world.
Was wondering when you would appear. :p
In response to Scikar: I think Para should stay as its the only spell PPUs have to stop them being a walking buff-bitch. Personally I hate it on my PPU having to buff everyone else up, but I know that when I have done that, I can Para/DB my enemies to kingdom come. If Para is removed, PPUs may as well become NPCs which follow you around.
Funny that, I have not seen one actual decent good or even well thought out reason behind removing it.
The funny thing is you only ever do see people whining about how they died. Sure seems its more of a skill issue than a parashock issue.
But of course the 70% are against it and everyone knows how the masses are always without fail right. I mean all over the world you can see the result of great mob behaviour, From riots in the UK to the killing fields of cambodia onto the race genocide in rwanda. Nothing quite like Group Though too celebration and goodwill too the world.A similar proportion of the community voted for belts, safeslots, and 5 item drop with red SL. A similar proportion of the community voted for increasing vehicle armor. A similar proportion of the community would vote to keep PPUs in the game. Simple reason for it is, if you don't make the change, 70% of the community are unhappy, if you do, only 30% are. But KK should be supporting the minorities now right, and sod the majority vote?
Clearly your memory needs refreshing on the para debate. Perhaps if you read the thread instead of trolling you would remember one of them? I'm not going to insult your intelligence, I'm sure you know how to use the search function, but if that's failing your memory too, just explain that you can't remember how to use it and I'll post some quotes for you.
EDIT@ Morganth: Try healing your team mates, casting anti damage boost and antidote on them, and as long as para is still in, anti para too. Reshield them when they get antibuffed. What you're really looking for is some offensive ability, and as long as PPUs maintain their current level of defence that's never going to be balanced.
Same thing every time here. 70% of the community against parashock, with reasons behind it, 30% with such wisdom as "stop whining", "reroll to PPU so you have antipara spells", "use the drugs even if they do give you a drugflash after 2 uses, and 3 uses makes you run drunk", "get some skills". Yeah because there's soooo much skill involved avoiding parashock isn't there? :rolleyes:70% of the community may act out against it here in the forums, but from what I have seen, much more than 30% use it whenever they get the chance.
Maybe if in-game useage corresponded with out of game attitude, KK would be more motivated to act?
And I know the answer to this: "Well I never use it first, but if someone parashocks me, I shock them back."
And that to me says the following:
1. Its at least fair, cause everyone can use it that wants to. Its one of the very few things that is found in spells, pistols, melee, rifles, and heavy weapons (albeit to varying degrees of effectiveness). Plus everyone can use the drugs (they are not class specific).
2. People may claim they dont like it, but they have no problem using it.
Now you may not think that says much. But put yourself in KK's shoes... you come in the forum, and you see people whine about para. Then the GMs go in game, and see everyone using para, and everyone using para drugs and anti-para spells, and plenty of PvP going on.
What in game would lead them to believe that para is the ultimate evil?
Just an observation (and not really "responding" to what Scikar said... just used his post as a lead in...)
A similar proportion of the community voted for belts, safeslots, and 5 item drop with red SL
Lets see yup. Both of those decreased the fun and playability of the game by far. +1 to the 70% eh.
But KK should be supporting the minorities now right, and sod the majority vote?
So If a majority of the players want garunteed slots and massive increase in tech part drops KK, should jump hither forth and do it?
Having 100 ranting raving frothing at the mouth deranged lunatics, does not in the slightest increase the value of what there are saying, You may have 70% but 100% of you 70% talks shit, No value worth purpose or use in the flawed tired and over used arguements brought forth daily to make people think, its not there fault. How about some self fucking responsability?
Clearly your memory needs refreshing on the para debate. Perhaps if you read the thread instead of trolling you would remember one of them? I'm not going to insult your intelligence, I'm sure you know how to use the search function, but if that's failing your memory too, just explain that you can't remember how to use it and I'll post some quotes for you.
Oh please sir, An entire paragraph of bascially pure ad hominem bullshit, In which you could have posted a valid reason for removing parashock, But instead decided to be a fuckwit about it and play with words, GG. I have read the thread's the oh so many threads. I dont see one valid reason posted in any of them for removing parashock.
Perhaps people focus on the whining, because that indeed is all that there actually is.
KK listen to what the masses want is what to a degree has completely fucked this game over in the fun factor and turned into a carebear paradise. Parashock is a wonder idea, with quite a good implementation. This game is not all about you extremely elite twitch skills. Its about fun Teamwork and playability. Parashock is an amazing team based spell and a great skill equailizer to an extent. It can bring balence to a fight, It can give one side and edge over an other.
But no no, we dont want the slightest complex gameplay or thye ability to lose our precious items falling to the ground oh and we want to punish those evil Pkers too. Yup listen to what the 70% want, Great amazing wonderful brilliant idea no doubt.
Edit// In responce to what strych said. On TS comms during a fight, one of the top things heard is can you parashock, such en such a player.
EDIT@ Morganth: Try healing your team mates, casting anti damage boost and antidote on them, and as long as para is still in, anti para too. Reshield them when they get antibuffed. What you're really looking for is some offensive ability, and as long as PPUs maintain their current level of defence that's never going to be balanced.
You make being a PPU sound harder than it is, ever tried using Holy Carth Sanctum? Saves a lot of time, and as long as you have holy heal permenantly cast on those that are para'd/DB'd then they are safe.
Lets see yup. Both of those decreased the fun and playability of the game by far. +1 to the 70% eh.Exactly. In this case, the 30% were right. But all that matters is that the majority vote, and it gets changed.
So If a majority of the players want garunteed slots and massive increase in tech part drops KK, should jump hither forth and do it?I'd like to think this community isn't moronic enough to vote in favour of such an idea.
Having 100 ranting raving frothing at the mouth deranged lunatics, does not in the slightest increase the value of what there are saying, You may have 70% but 100% of you 70% talks shit, No value worth purpose or use in the flawed tired and over used arguements brought forth daily to make people think, its not there fault. How about some self fucking responsability?I think you talk shit too. Oh look how well this debate is coming along, aren't we mature?
KK listen to what the masses want is what to a degree has completely fucked this game over in the fun factor and turned into a carebear paradise. Parashock is a wonder idea, with quite a good implementation. This game is not all about you extremely elite twitch skills. Its about fun Teamwork and playability. Parashock is an amazing team based spell and a great skill equailizer to an extent. It can bring balence to a fight, It can give one side and edge over an other. If you call an almost 100% guaranteed win an edge, then yes I agree with you. If the definition of a balanced fight is that any team of similar size to the opposing team but without a PPU should automatically lose, then yeah, I agree with you completely.
You're giving the exact same excuses as yesterday's hybrids gave as justification for keeping them in the game.
Tell me, why do you think KK bothered to make this game FPS based, if aim should be irrelevant? Surely by your thinking, this game would be much better suited with combat a la SW:G?
no, we dont want the slightest complex gameplay or thye ability to lose our precious items falling to the ground oh and we want to punish those evil Pkers too. Yup listen to what the 70% want, Great amazing wonderful brilliant idea no doubt.I'll ignore the comment about belts and PKers since it's clear you didn't understand me when I posted that. In my opinion, the game would become a lot more complex without PPUs at all. Consider this: The only classes of any use in an OP war, are Tanks, APUs, and PPUs. A PE can never be as useful as a Tank in an OP war, and PPU buffs render sniper spies useless. Drones are useful for antihealing PPUs and practically nothing else. Pistol spies are slaughtered in mere seconds. Hacking the OP is barely part of the fight, and a PPU can do that anyway.
Now consider a fight without PPUs. A pistol spy can now use his stealth to jump behind someone, kill him, and stealth out again, using guerilla tactics. Each kill weakens the enemy force. With PPUs, the spy has very little chance of killing his opponent. He has para to contend with, as well as holy buffs and heal. Should he kill the target, he'll get rezzed anyway. Without PPUs, drones and rifles actually deal enough damage for people to notice it.
On one hand, you have only a limited selection of classes with worthwhile effectiveness, on the other, every class is given a role. And you say PPUs make it more complex?
Edit// In responce to what strych said. On TS comms during a fight, one of the top things heard is can you parashock, such en such a player.Good for the people on teamspeak with you.
The reason I think people still use parashock is not about taking a stance against it, it's merely about having a chance. If you know your enemies are going to use it, and you don't yourself, there's a good chance you will lose. Ask Carinth about PIMP's OP wars and their use of turrets - it's exactly the same. To not use parashock when your opponents do is going to cost you the fight, you may as well stay at home and not bother. Which is, incidentally, what a lot of clans do, rather than go out to an outpost and be permanently stuck to the floor.
@Morganth: Wasn't it you who only a page ago said this:
Well, if all PPUs were super-powered and unkillable, then yes they are overbalanced. But seeing as you have to be good to master this power, then its pretty obvious they aren't overpowered. As my example shows, the PPU is not overbalance as they have minimal skill, ergo I could have dropped them fast if I wasn't using my BoH. Had it been a good PPU, I wouldn't have stood a chance.I thought you had to be good to be a good PPU? Aren't you contradicting yourself a teeny bit here?
I thought you had to be good to be a good PPU? Aren't you contradicting yourself a teeny bit here?
No, what I said states that the class is only overpowered if a complete moron could do it, however you have to be skilled at being a PPU in order for you to be good at it, therefore it isn't overpowered as not just anyone can start a PPU and automatically become amazing at it just because the class is supposedly overpowered.
You make being a PPU sound harder than it is, ever tried using Holy Carth Sanctum? Saves a lot of time, and as long as you have holy heal permenantly cast on those that are para'd/DB'd then they are safe.
You tell me what makes this so hard. You have to cast heal once every fifteen seconds on a team mate, I have to hit an enemy every second in order to outdamage that heal. Buffing yourself doesn't even require any aiming at all! I really fail to see how being a PPU requires any more 'skill' than any other class. The only time it gets remotely taxing for anyone half decent (and people who haven't got the hand of basic aiming aren't exactly ideal test subjects for class balance) is when they are PPUing for 4, 5, 6, even more team mates. At that point, yes it takes some skill, but it's more just being aware, that when an APU casts antibuff someone is going to need buffing, when someone gets parashocked and damage boosted, they're going to need you to run nearby with your cath sanct and give them a quick heal. Whereas that antibuffing APU has to get his click with HAB spot on. If you miss a heal, you heal yourself, or in rare occasions, possibly an enemy. You can try again after a second. If an APU misses with HAB, he has to get his mana right back to full again for another shot. A Tank has to be hitting nearly every shot with his CS to deal even mediocre damage to a holy buffed target.
And no matter which way you look at it, however skilled a PPU you are, the unbuffed people fighting against you and your team have to be more so.
You tell me what makes this so hard.
The fact that your team mate tends to me running about when fighting, the fact that I tend to have a full team to deal with when PPUing, the fact that you have to cast a buff/heal exactly when the recticle is on the player, the fact that a moving target is hard to hit with a slow casting spell like heal in comparision to a burst wep where you can fire as they move and hit at least once.
And no matter which way you look at it, however skilled a PPU you are, the unbuffed people fighting against you and your team have to be more so.
They are foolish to fight a team with a PPU, and so far I haven't seen anyone turn up to an OP fight without a PPU, so what you have just said is irrelevant.
Fight in teams . quit trying to solo a ppu team and complain becuase you got worked . Its hard for a ppu to spam any parashock when they are too busy healing everyone and themselves . Use teams to combat ppu teams . Keep parashock and use teams to combat it . How many times do you see snipers complain about parashock , or a droner . if the ppu cant hit you with it ,it isnt a problem to you . use these classes in teams to combat ppus and quit all your complaining about fair and unfair . there are many unbalances between classes solo but make a team and you are able to even the field
Fight in teams . quit trying to solo a ppu team and complain becuase you got worked . Its hard for a ppu to spam any parashock when they are too busy healing everyone and themselves . Use teams to combat ppu teams . Keep parashock and use teams to combat it . How many times do you see snipers complain about parashock , or a droner . if the ppu cant hit you with it ,it isnt a problem to you . use these classes in teams to combat ppus and quit all your complaining about fair and unfair . there are many unbalances between classes solo but make a team and you are able to even the field
Words of wisdom!
Fight in teams . quit trying to solo a ppu team and complain becuase you got worked . Its hard for a ppu to spam any parashock when they are too busy healing everyone and themselves . Use teams to combat ppu teams . Keep parashock and use teams to combat it . How many times do you see snipers complain about parashock , or a droner . if the ppu cant hit you with it ,it isnt a problem to you . use these classes in teams to combat ppus and quit all your complaining about fair and unfair . there are many unbalances between classes solo but make a team and you are able to even the field
So... If you can't win... Zerg 'em.
Yipee, then it becomes a battle of numbers, not skill.
The fact that your team mate tends to me running about when fighting, the fact that I tend to have a full team to deal with when PPUing, the fact that you have to cast a buff/heal exactly when the recticle is on the player, the fact that a moving target is hard to hit with a slow casting spell like heal in comparision to a burst wep where you can fire as they move and hit at least once.It worries me that you have a /64 PE and yet don't understand burst weapons. Unless your reticle is closed on the target, and I mean closed, at the exact time you press fire, the burst will miss. A plasma weapon you might get incredibly lucky with, and hit with an AoE shot that does damage, anything else will appear to hit the target, but won't cause damage. If you don't believe me, test it, shoot Pain Easer rounds starting the burst off the target and moving it on as the burst continues, and you will never deal a single point of damage.
Those same players I have to target with CS are moving around just as much, but remember the slight difference: your team mate can run up to you crouched, ask for a heal, you comply, he runs off. My target won't crouch still in front of me and ask for a face full of plasma. And after I hit him, I have to hit him again. You don't have to worry about him at all for the next 15 seconds.
As I said, PPUing a large team by yourself does take skill. But that's the definition of an elite PPU. A good PPU merely has to be able to PPU a smallish team effectively and keep himself alive. And that doesn't require anywhere near as much.
They are foolish to fight a team with a PPU, and so far I haven't seen anyone turn up to an OP fight without a PPU, so what you have just said is irrelevant.
This statement only reinforces what I said. Why do you think nobody turns up to an OP fight without a PPU?
It worries me that you have a /64 PE and yet don't understand burst weapons.
Firstly, I don't use burst weapons. Secondly, I take it as bad practice to let my recticle leave the other players backside whilst I am trying to kill them.
your team mate can run up to you crouched, ask for a heal, you comply, he runs off.
The chances of them doing that whilst trying to kill any enemies is very small.
My target won't crouch still in front of me and ask for a face full of plasma. And after I hit him, I have to hit him again. You don't have to worry about him at all for the next 15 seconds.
So the other people in the team who are also fighting at the time don't get a look in?
This statement only reinforces what I said. Why do you think nobody turns up to an OP fight without a PPU?
Because stupidity is not so apparent when it comes down to being logical when choosing what your fighting force will be.
The differences in classes and thier skills makes this a team game . This game is in no way balanced for solo fighting . No way will a sniper enter an op and hope to take it alone against a tank . Advantage of rifles is range , tank is close quarters toe to toe combat . Everything about this games pvp system is built around teaming . If you go solo against a ppu team you have to expect to get the shorter end of the deal , which is what this whole thread was started over . little terror lost against a ppu droner team and posted .
Oh by the way kharma is a bitch . After rezzing and repeatedly killing a spy over and over , spouting cusses and whatever else , little terror got parad and mosquitoed . Seems how you treat others in the game will eventually come around to you .
Firstly, I don't use burst weapons. Secondly, I take it as bad practice to let my recticle leave the other players backside whilst I am trying to kill them.
Good practice. But I suggest you learn how to fight with a burst weapon before you start claiming a PPU takes more skill. When you can track someone across a fight and tag them with Liberator bullet after bullet, then you'll be in a position to say which one takes more skill. I've experienced both, and I tell you this, I can tag a team mate with a heal, shelter, or deflector in a fight, I can tag his target with a damage boost, but I haven't mastered aiming with a Liberator.
The chances of them doing that whilst trying to kill any enemies is very small.
But still many times larger than the chances of those enemies crouching in front of your team mate.
So the other people in the team who are also fighting at the time don't get a look in?
And here we go again. During that 15 seconds is while you heal the other members of the team. Thus the skill comes in. In a 4 man team, a PPU has 5 seconds to tag each team member with a heal. 5 whole seconds just to click on something, even if it is moving? Thus a good PPU, who can manage 3 team mates, is not too difficult. An elite PPU who can support a larger team, means they have less team to heal each team member. But I ask you a question here, in an 8 man team, can you keep a heal on every single team mate constantly?
Because stupidity is not so apparent when it comes down to being logical when choosing what your fighting force will be.
Exactly my point again! My, you're doing well here. Nobody would be stupid enough to consider going to an OP war without a PPU, because they know full well they will lose, even if they have more team members. Now ask yourself why people still use parashock even though they don't like it. It's only a small mental leap to take, I'm sure you can manage it.
@chutza: Post a little more coherently and you might elicit more of a response. The class system does not work on PPUs and non-PPUs, but it's only the PPU which defines whether a team can fight at an OP or not.
Good practice. But I suggest you learn how to fight with a burst weapon before you start claiming a PPU takes more skill. When you can track someone across a fight and tag them with Liberator bullet after bullet, then you'll be in a position to say which one takes more skill. I've experienced both, and I tell you this, I can tag a team mate with a heal, shelter, or deflector in a fight, I can tag his target with a damage boost, but I haven't mastered aiming with a Liberator.
Well, I used to use a libby against monks, but now I tend not to as doesn't make much difference against APUs, they drop slightly slower but not much change, and against PPUs it won't matter as they can still out-heal it most times.
An elite PPU who can support a larger team, means they have less team to heal each team member. But I ask you a question here, in an 8 man team, can you keep a heal on every single team mate constantly?
Never tried TBH, most fights I am in with a full team usually mean there is another team equally supported by a PPU, meaning that whoever we are fighting tends to die pretty fast to not worry about healing them all.
Now ask yourself why people still use parashock even though they don't like it. It's only a small mental leap to take, I'm sure you can manage it.
*leaps* Well, if they want to be hypocritical of their beliefs thats not my problem. If you don't want para, prove it by not using it. Maybe then after the fight you can say "we lost due to them having para" rather than saying that, even though your side had ample opportunities to cast it most likely.
@chutza: Post a little more coherently and you might elicit more of a response. The class system does not work on PPUs and non-PPUs, but it's only the PPU which defines whether a team can fight at an OP or not.
Whats so hard to understand about the team physics of this game . PPUs in no way define wether someone can fight an op war or not . Lets see a team of PPUs take over an op alone against a team of tanks pes spies and apus . PPUs support thier team of tanks spies apus and pes . If one team has medical support and the other doesnt then yes there will be the advantage to the team with it . This is how it should be . Well balanced teams to gain the best possible outcome . Dont blame the lack of preparation on one parashock spell . All of you seem to look past all solutions and want to blame a single spell ,stating that its the be all end all of this game when in fact it is not .
If theres any PPUs that are out there that have ever been killed say AYE . If these ppus have parashock then there goes your parashock be all end all theory .
Such an overdone topic. Not that that's going to stop me giving my opinion on it yet again :p
Don't remove it....nerf it. Make it do about 20% of the speed reduction it does now. It should be a hindrance not a death sentence.
If theres any PPUs that are out there that have ever been killed say AYE . If these ppus have parashock then there goes your parashock be all end all theory .
I have died on my PPU. Was funny seeing 2 PPUs Para/DB me whilst an APU HAB'd me, and then I got shot at by 2 tanks and 2 APUs. Certainly makes PPUs seem overpowered if they can be taken down in a matter of seconds with the right team.
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 22:08
I have died on my PPU. Was funny seeing 2 PPUs Para/DB me whilst an APU HAB'd me, and then I got shot at by 2 tanks and 2 APUs. Certainly makes PPUs seem overpowered if they can be taken down in a matter of seconds with the right team.
Yea it only took 2 ppus, 3 apus, and 2 tanks. I guess you're right, ppus are just fine.
o_O
Yea it only took 2 ppus, 3 apus, and 2 tanks. I guess you're right, ppus are just fine.
When you are the last one left in a team at an OP when the main strike force comes up the UG like this, then a lone PPU doesn't stand a chance. One PPU and a good APU could take another PPU down. Same with a tank/PPU team. It took that team a matter of seconds to kill me, had I not have been HAB'd then I might have been alright. So as you can see, HAB screws PvP as much as Para does, it renders players useless. But you don't see people moan about it?
When you are the last one left in a team at an OP when the main strike force comes up the UG like this, then a lone PPU doesn't stand a chance. One PPU and a good APU could take another PPU down. Same with a tank/PPU team. It took that team a matter of seconds to kill me, had I not have been HAB'd then I might have been alright. So as you can see, HAB screws PvP as much as Para does, it renders players useless. But you don't see people moan about it?
A GOOD PPU, you know, those ones you've been ranting about, can shrug off an antibuff and still protect his team. That's another thing which makes a certain PPU elite. You were rendered useless because you let the rest of your team die, not because of antibuff alone. If your team dies, then you as the PPU responsible for protecting them deserve to die along with them. It's most likely that your team died because you were outnumbered, or outskilled, correct? So therefore balance is irrelevant because the numbers and skill on either side are not balanced.
Whats so hard to understand about the team physics of this game . PPUs in no way define wether someone can fight an op war or not . Lets see a team of PPUs take over an op alone against a team of tanks pes spies and apus . PPUs support thier team of tanks spies apus and pes . If one team has medical support and the other doesnt then yes there will be the advantage to the team with it . This is how it should be . Well balanced teams to gain the best possible outcome . Dont blame the lack of preparation on one parashock spell . All of you seem to look past all solutions and want to blame a single spell ,stating that its the be all end all of this game when in fact it is not .
If theres any PPUs that are out there that have ever been killed say AYE . If these ppus have parashock then there goes your parashock be all end all theory
Not at all mate. If you would care to take the time to search for threads I have posted on, I believe there are many more things at the root of the unbalance in PvP caused by PPUs than simply parashock. But this thread, as you may or may not have noticed, is about parashock, so I saw little sense in bringing PPUs as a whole into the argument. It's too late for that now unfortunately, because PPUs as a whole have been brought up, and are now being discussed.
Regarding your comments about balance, I can say with some certainty that you are almost entirely wrong. Consider two teams:
Team A consists of 2 Tanks, 2 APUs, and 2 PPUs. Team B consists of 1 Tank, 1 APU, 1 PPU, 1 rifle spy, 1 droner spy, 1 pistol PE.
Now Team B has the greatest balance of classes. But which actually wins the fight? Team A splits into two squads, with a Tank, an APU, and a PPU in each. With only 2 people to care for, the PPUs each have a very easy time. Now consider the threats to them. They are only facing 1 APU, and he can't antibuff both PPUs together. By your logic, this should be made up for by the other classes. But what can they do exactly? The droner can only antiheal, at best. PPU S/D/H can outheal drone damage, and the PPUs can easily keep 2 people buffed each. Whereas on Team A, the PPU has to look after 4. He only has 1 Tank to sponge the damage, and he can be antibuffed at any time by one of the 2 enemy APUs. One APU antibuffs the Tank, the other the PPU. The Tank is left unprotected and is promptly slaughtered by the two Tanks on Team B. The pistol PE is powerless to stop this because he is incapable of dealing enough damage against the PPU buffed tank, and nor is the rifle spy. However they also can't take as much damage as the Tank, even with PPU buffs, ergo they die quickly.
It's perhaps a little deep, but it explains my point. The classes are most definitely not balanced around teams. Go to NeoFrag and watch some duels, and also go around and do some 1v1 fights in general. You'll notice one thing: PvP in 1v1 situations, with PPUs gone, is almost perfectly balanced. In teams, it's far from it.
Dribble Joy
05-05-04, 22:43
Skickar, few typos there, do an edit before they have a go at you.
As he said.
1vs1 combat is getting very close to being truely balanced, a few isses with specific weapons, but otherwise it's pretty much bang on.
Bring in PPUs however, and things go to shit.
So therefore balance is irrelevant because the numbers and skill on either side are not balanced.
So unless you match the other teams characters 1:1, then one of the teams is unbalanced, so it don't make jackshit difference if there is one PPU or four, the attacking force is most likely to zerg you unless you have information which proves otherwise. So the so-called "unbalanced" PPU doens't make any difference to PvP if the other side have twice as many players, which is almost always the case.
1vs1 combat is getting very close to being truely balanced, a few isses with specific weapons, but otherwise it's pretty much bang on.
Bring in PPUs however, and things go to shit.
Well, shame thats nothing to do with the thread then is it? Since when could a PPU 1v1 a player? Last time I checked having a PPU on a team meant there was more than one player present at the fight on that side.
So unless you match the other teams characters 1:1, then one of the teams is unbalanced, so it don't make jackshit difference if there is one PPU or four, the attacking force is most likely to zerg you unless you have information which proves otherwise. So the so-called "unbalanced" PPU doens't make any difference to PvP if the other side have twice as many players, which is almost always the case.
What, who gives a flying fuck about balance, just sod it because everyone brings bigger teams than the other anyway? Why even bother thinking at all before you posted in this thread if that's your attitude? The issue with PPUs is, if you have half the number of players as your opponents, but you have a PPU and they do not, chances are you can still win that fight. If you have equal numbers, but you have a PPU and they do not, then you are effectively guaranteed a win so long as your PPU isn't stupid/very bad/asleep.
Well, shame thats nothing to do with the thread then is it? Since when could a PPU 1v1 a player? Last time I checked having a PPU on a team meant there was more than one player present at the fight on that side.
Tell that to chutza, he decided it was worth bringing up.
Tell that to chutza, he decided it was worth bringing up.
What i was bringing up is how this game is a balance of classes . one person moaning about being schooled by a ppu droner team doesnt make sense since it was a losing case to begin with ,which is exactly what this thread was about . LilT got worked over by a ppu droner team and decided it was all about parashock , when in fact it was her trying to solo a team . Then people came in one by one trying to defeat the droner ppu team and failed . My posts are about using the right tools for the job . knowing what they were up against they could ahve formed a team to combat it .
Your case scenario is a perfect example . if you think droners and snipers havent a use then you havent seen much of the battles at MB or choose to ignore that a silent hunter or a mosquito can do nice damage . Being that they fight froma range they arent in need of a ppus care therefore lightening the load on the teams ppu . Also they are free from parashock and damage boosters ,so that leaves them able to concentrate on thier job at hand . But you have to choose your team for the job .
Again this whole thread was started over one person being defeated by a team and blaming it on the parashock , not the fact that she was damage boosted and getting hit by drone for 160 per hit . Then seeing everyone come in one by one to try thier turns . Bet if the three that tried came all at once it would have been show over for the ppu droner team . incidentally the three were tank pe and an apu . Kudos to the tank though for almost getting the drone out of the fight . Youll be happy to know when the droner exited it destroyed the drone .
Original monk
06-05-04, 10:14
the few "real" ppuhaters and parashockhaters on these boards let it seem that everyone in the game hates para and hate's ppu's ...
this is a big desinformation towards KK
yust to say that not everyone hates parashock and ppu's and i think this "crackgroup" of haters try to force there opinion into the community ...
wich isnt a a viable or honest method to get what you want ...
i am glad that KK doesnt give into the removal of that spell ..
they allready nerfed the mana, the casttime and got decent drugs ... the ones still whining at para are the ones that wonna see the ppuclass dissapear and my guess is this will never stop
2 sadly
comment all ya want, i wouldnt care less, but i do know that this whole ppuhater and parashock thing is going out of hand and getting lamer and lamer by the day, pro or contra i dont care
ya guys yust wonna mold the game to youre own hands, there is no respect
and KK gets all the desinformation
stupid community sumthimes, and yes this will also include me cause i posted in more then enough anti- and propara/ppu threads
fuckwiths, 2 years allready
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