View Full Version : [BRAINPORT] Breakable Quickbelts!
.:: Breakable Quickbelts, and Reasoning For It ::.
In the past, many people (who can't hack or don't have a hacker on-hand) have wanted the loot that dropped out of their victim's shiny quickbelts, that they earned (by winning the fight).
What I propose is a system where quickbelts can be damaged to the point where the belt becomes 'dead' and the person who did the most damage to it is allowed to open it.
Using the current system we have with mobs, a 100 SL Belt could be equal to a 120/120 Mob, and keep going down to match up with the ranks of the monster... Of course, this scale could be changed to something where the degree of the rank is 1.5 times the HP of a monster, or something like that. Whatever KK fells is a good number, or something the community decides on.
.:: Brief Summary ::.
A) Quickbelts work like mobs, they can either be hacked (current method) or they can be damaged to the point where they can be opened (new method).
B) Quickbelts have a set number of 'hp' based on the SL of the person. The degree of breaking it open is proportional to the ranks of mobs, with a set multiplier for difficulty, either - for Negative SL, No Multiplier for 0 SL, and a + Modifier for 1-100 SL.
.:: Methods for Opening the Quickbelt ::.
A) Upon breaking the HP limit, the item inside flies out in a random direction, free for all to grab
OR
B) Upon breaking the HP limit, the person who did the most damage to the belt is allowed to open it, and past a certain time limit, or death upon the person that did the most damage, the QB is allowed to be opened by all.
.:: Who Does This Benefit? ::.
A) This encourages solo-PKers. The most common reason I hear for people not willing to solo PK is that there is no rewards for doing it, other than a possible SL loss/Sympathies loss, and a guaranteed death as soon as the enemy's PPU shows up. With this system, there would be many more people out killing people on their own, instead of sitting in Plaza waiting for a PPU.
B) This helps with the low server numbers. With 50 players on each server, save Saturn, your chances of finding a trustworthy hacker who is willing to hand over the loot in the belt is slim-to-none.
.:: Possible Debate Subjects ::.
A) Damage Boost on Belts: Yes or no, and why?
B) KK and the Community: Who should decide the multiplier numbers for SL?
C) Is This Idea Good or Bad: Yes or no, and why?
Feel free to add your thoughts and opinions, but if you're just going to flame, let me ask you to leave ahead of time.
Thanks for reading through this long post, appreciate it.
Chase.Devine
05-05-04, 00:40
No.
Why?
This would make QBs senceless(Everyone except PPUs deal enough dmg to break it in seconds).
Items dropped directly before the QBs were introduced,
and it was [bad word here](my opinion, but i think im not alone).
2 possibilities :
Leave the QBs as they are
Remove them and drop items directly.
I prefer the first one.
My 1.2342765420 Cent. :o
Ohh forgot about the time,
a directly dropped items would disappear like trash in the cellars after seconds,
a qb will wait until someone gets its items.
Thats the only difference i can see.
Only if it takes 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 shots from a Capped Cursed Soul, otherwise hell no.
Don't quote and lol me, I'm being serious. If it took an established Clan a whole hour to break it, then yes thats a good idea. Otherwise I'm firmly against it.
just have the items drop on the floor I mean god they lost the fight the person who won should get credit for the kill. They could also make armor more expensive in the shops why? because a good player could hunt runners and get the armour from them and sell it for a reduced price. It would make pking people more fun and better rewarding I'm capped and hunting mobs is boring I want to kill people and gain from it. Screw you if your gonna say then noobs will get ganked alot more there is a LE chip this is a pvp game nothing will change that and if it does I'm gone. I only take my LE out becuase there no ppu in the caves with LE's in thats the problem no one is using the very good LE chip to lvl.
O_o I can see 5 tanks surrounding a belt... firing off millions of CS rounds....
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 01:02
I'm for any idea that actually allows the killer to get his rightful loot, without being force to take hacking. A skill not everyone can afford.
It is alright idea i gus. But i would only want it added if some chanegs where made.
-Whoever gets the most damage on the person before he dies gets a huge bonus to getting the belt after damaging it.
-Depending on the attackers TL weapon and the targets tl item in the belt, the item inside the belt would be damaged or maybe even destroyed.
-The belts health should depend on the persons soul light and rank aswell i think.
tomparadox
05-05-04, 01:35
ok, im defenetly strongly agensied this idia
just have the items drop on the floor I mean god they lost the fight the person who won should get credit for the kill. [/QUOTE
ok, lets think about that statment. say you and me started to fight, say i won and you drop say a 3 sloted rare, teck part, comp 10, vhc key or something hell even a 5 sloted holy heal or something if a ppu or 5 sloted poisen drops. i break the belt, and you lose it, id imagin youd be kinda pissed loseing a very hard to get wep or spell wouldent you?
[QUOTE]They could also make armor more expensive in the shops why? because a good player could hunt runners and get the armour from them and sell it for a reduced price. It would make pking people more fun and better rewarding I'm capped and hunting mobs is boring I want to kill people and gain from it. Screw you if your gonna say then noobs will get ganked alot more there is a LE chip this is a pvp game nothing will change that and if it does I'm gone. I only take my LE out becuase there no ppu in the caves with LE's in thats the problem no one is using the very good LE chip to lvl.
Oo the hell dude, you do that and go buy monk armor, that shit gets expensiv already. hell any amor gets expensiv. jest so you can gain from it? youd whant to fuck everything up by makeing armor more expensiv, nOObs will have a hellava time buying it, along with people that suck at geting money, jest go PK if your going to PK but dont screw up stuff in the prosses so you people that get caped and cba to do anything else but PK helpless nOObs then go get a lot of profit off of it, i meen why the hell should anyone get a profit off of killing a nOOb breaking there belt or the item jest droping after youv PKed him, i meen hes helpless.
so i say no, both idias suck IMO. i say leav it the way it is and dont F*** with it, we have enuf problems in the game and forums without haveign all the damn nOObs and people that lose armor, 5 sloted items comeing in the forums bitching about it. and im affraid that would lower KKs server pop because i dout people will stick around to lose there shit because they got cloakkilled by some PE so they lose a 5 sloted rare for it...
just have the items drop on the floor
When Cyberspace arrives, fuck hackers. They can have there cyberspace, and the item drop goes to the Killer. Change the item drop rules though.
I agree.
(And so take back my last post)
cobrajay157
05-05-04, 02:09
hmmm no, they had something like that its called beta and its never coming back so dont bother posting and specially you nvidia you would lose all ur items because your a spy lol :p :p
Yes beta the good days man you whould have a weapon in your hand you get killed its plain fucking gone forget about it its gone :) the pkers dream you would be more careful walking through pepper park your items would just simply drop on the floor no safeslot. Too much crying OMG KK I lost this and that tough shit you went into the warzone you pay
tomparadox
05-05-04, 02:19
hmmm no, they had something like that its called beta and its never coming back so dont bother posting and specially you nvidia you would lose all ur items because your a spy lol
yep. and if they readd that bullshit from beta they can go ** themselvs cus ill leav. this will become campocron again so all the people can get Fing rares when someoen GRs in.
yep. and if they readd that bullshit from beta they can go ** themselvs cus ill leav. this will become campocron again so all the people can get Fing rares when someoen GRs in.
yeah but they could make parts drop more more rare weapons more fighting more rewards more fun imo its a pvp game fight fight fight win or lose depending on people skills is what most pvpers want.
tomparadox
05-05-04, 03:58
but then look at it this way, some guy with good con, vs people that dont know a whole whole lot about con, the people that arnt as good will keep loseing, if people keep loseing it will start to piss them off, then when that happends kk loses more people because they will be loseing all there rares, from eather being PKed to fighting in duels. the ammount of PKing will go up on nOObs if you incresss how mutch amror coasts and theyll get a profit off the armor, therefor whats that going to say to the nOObs jest starting? first thing that happens when they take LE out not knowing what else to do then get ganked to hell and back then theyll get pissed and leav... IMO its a somewhat good idia but would have to make consicuensis, maby in a special dueling area they can drop there weps, but not jest runing around the city or something...
instant drop. no QB.
sounds fine to me.
Im down with a direct drop...all your ever gonna get from me is either some low TL ppu spell, a peice of armor, or if your lucky a nice stamina booster....
bring it on
its funny you people defend the quickbelt as if youve ever actually dropped something good in it....
and if you have your an idiot for carrying multiple good items(ppus excluded) but how often does a good PPU die anyways......
NONE of you people against this idea seem to have read what I clearly stated.
THIS IDEA IS NO DIFFERENT THAN THE CURRENT SYSTEM.
You have JUST as great of a chance of dropping something with this as you do right now. The ONLY difference with this system is that, you can't think, "Yeah, I have 100SL! I can leave that belt there for a few weeks and grab it later!"
Eventually, someone will crack the belt.
Tom, your claims that "I'll start dropping 5 slot items" has no weight here, because the safe-slot is still protected.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think no one actually understood me. The pop out thing happens AFTER someone breaks the belt.
THE ITEM YOU DROP IS STILL SAFE INSIDE A QUICKBELT. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT NOW INSTEAD OF JUST BEING ABLE TO BE HACKED, IT ALSO HAS THE OPPORTUNITY OF BEING 'CRACKED' OPEN.
Whew, that was harsh. :p
You guys wanna take away the only fun a hacking spy has??? Other than quickbelts, there is nothing but OPs and boxes. Great. So if you wanna get the loot, bring a hacker. Otherwise your "reward" for killing people should be the satisfaction you get from it.
Xaru
Leave them as they are. Why hack a hard belt when you can just shoot it open? With DoY hackers get hacknet so THEN I think they should just get rid of the need for hacking on belts. Belt should still drop so it holds the item and you can go back for it. Also I think belts should then have loot rights kinda like on mobs... People always took my loot back when items just droped on the ground.
I'm for any idea that actually allows the killer to get his rightful loot, without being force to take hacking. A skill not everyone can afford.
hmm, then it should open to construction too. i can not affort any hacking and weapon skill and want to loot to.
oh hay, dont forget recycling. i want to recycle everything, the belt and all whats in it, just for fun.
if we have this then the next one step in and want to loot WB with shootin it open.
i would say OK if you say DESTROY QB Yes or No. but this way No
O_o I can see 5 tanks surrounding a belt... firing off millions of CS rounds....
And run out off ammo when they only have 100 shots to go :lol:
Liebestoter
05-05-04, 08:08
Bring back the instadrop, please. Or at least make qb's non-hackable, i.e openable without a hacker. Or something. This buddy system PvP stuff drives me insane.
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 08:18
hmm, then it should open to construction too. i can not affort any hacking and weapon skill and want to loot to.
oh hay, dont forget recycling. i want to recycle everything, the belt and all whats in it, just for fun.
If you killed him, you deserve the loot. If you don't have weapon skill, then I don't see how you could have killed him. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
if we have this then the next one step in and want to loot WB with shootin it open.
50 hacking is a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar cry from 100-110 hacking.
Everyone can afford 50 hax0r. The same cannot be said of belt hacking.
This buddy system PvP stuff drives me insane.
Amen.
If you killed him, you deserve the loot.
I disagree.
The belt option makes it somewhat fair. Lets say you get ganked zoning for no apparant reason (eg. GR'ing). That killer now has to hack the belt putting themselves at a disadvantage (or thier teammate) to get the goods while you have a chance to fight them off it.
If you want to make a mini-game that only the killer can play to open the belt (which holds them defenseless in a position for 2 minutes) then I'd agree to it.
tomparadox
05-05-04, 12:18
Tom, your claims that "I'll start dropping 5 slot items" has no weight here, because the safe-slot is still protected.
yea it dose, i know plenty of people apus,ppus, tanks , PE everything that cary more than one gun/spell on them thats 5 sloted. espeshaly ppus. this idia might be on if you make it not drop rares, not drop PA, and make ppus not lose 5 sloted holy heals because unless your on TS they take alot of money and time to remake. and dont tell me they dont drop because a m8 of mine lost his when some ppl jumped him without buffs on.
edit>
THE ITEM YOU DROP IS STILL SAFE INSIDE A QUICKBELT. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT NOW INSTEAD OF JUST BEING ABLE TO BE HACKED, IT ALSO HAS THE OPPORTUNITY OF BEING 'CRACKED' OPEN.
Whew, that was harsh.
im not talking about that, i think that idia is "ok" as long as it takes a caped tank around 10 - 15 min maby even 20 min to do. and make it have a "godmode" you could calll it for the first 30 to an houre so the ppl have a chance to get it back without showing up and someoens shooting the hell outa it already. but anyway, im replying to the idia of it jest droping on the flore witch was sugested by someoen, jest skiping the belt prosess. IMO people will lose to mutch because now every time i die on my spy,tank,PE,ppu i almost always lose my PA.
just have the items drop on the floor I mean god they lost the fight the person who won should get credit for the kill.
Fair enough, but only if the "winner" does not only get easy loot, but some problems too. Sure ..if you kill someone RL you wont need to hack the body to get your "credit"...but problems>gain will apply. If you kill someone in a non OP-zone, you should be on the Copbots koslist for like 24h.
They could also make armor more expensive in the shops why?
Yes exactly: why? whats so good about making shop-bought stuff more expensive. Not very beginner-friendly.
It would make pking people more fun and better rewarding I'm capped and hunting mobs is boring I want to kill people and gain from it.
This game offers more than a setting to either shoot at mobs or shoot at other players. apart from that, I totaly agree. There is so little PK arround no one even bothers about the LE anymore. We definitly need another "justkillpplforthesakeofboredom-boost" *thumbsup* :rolleyes:
Screw you if your gonna say then noobs will get ganked alot more there is a LE chip this is a pvp game nothing will change that and if it does I'm gone.
Indeed....lets hope so. Although PvP is a heavy element of the game...the game itself was originally not intended to be a pure ego-shooter and hope that it will at some point get there where it promised to get before the first beta rolled off, without limiting the PvP of course. The fact ppl think this is a pure PvP game (and that it is played this way too) could make me [censored due to explicit threats against KK staff]
My spy used to be a sniper with a silent hunter, so you cary:
A silent hunter in safeslot, a rare close range rifle, a lvl3 or obliterator stealthtool.
Now, i've lost about 10 pa's and about 6 stealthtools just from dying.
I think the quickbelt is good, so what is it you want? a gr camping pe or tank that can get all kinds of good stuff just standing there, blasting people and getting good stuff from belts?
BRING A SPY OR PE !!!
Otherwise GR camping would go through the roof.
Hacking is a skills, such as Bartering, Constructing , Researching and repairing.
What does a tan do if there no other skillers (Cons, Resser) around ... he goes and finds one , looks on trade, gets a friend.
If a tank is going to PK for the sole reason of getting belts, he should hire / pay a trade skiller for the help of hacking.....
Personaly I think noobs or lower level chars suffer most from quick belt drops, and of course PPU's (If they die)
Why ? You a capped Tank you only carry a CS, a few spells and armour. Everything except the CS is replaced by by buying the stuff, CS in Safe slot... And if you cappe dyou should have enough cash to keep things in order ....
Noob Dies he looses hie battle vest 2 ... and prays he got enough cash to buy new one.
PPU Carries all spells at high slotage to be a good PPU (I dont have anything below a 4 slotter). I loose I cry cause to get a 4 slot or 5 slot Deflector I have to spend 2 hours wasting time making new ones....
Leave it as it is ... Tanks have many strengths, hacking not one of them ....
Plus they the only class with this problem...all others can setup to hack
jerrymaguire
05-05-04, 13:07
I say leave the belts as they are, to do otherwise would help make servers like saturn worse, everyone a pker.
Garg [RogueNET]
05-05-04, 14:08
The fact that u can loose ur CAMO PA which costs loads of cash even if u have a barter, so i dont wanna see this idea ever get implented.
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 17:20
I disagree.
The belt option makes it somewhat fair. Lets say you get ganked zoning for no apparant reason (eg. GR'ing). That killer now has to hack the belt putting themselves at a disadvantage (or thier teammate) to get the goods while you have a chance to fight them off it.
If you want to make a mini-game that only the killer can play to open the belt (which holds them defenseless in a position for 2 minutes) then I'd agree to it.
Yes because every kill is a gank. :rolleyes:
Assuming a fight is a fair fight, you don't think the killer deserves the loot?
I pine for the good ol days when items dropped. Up the drop rates for techs and normal imps, and get rid of the safeslot altogether.
If you killed him, you deserve the loot. If you don't have weapon skill, then I don't see how you could have killed him. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:...
i've build the weapon who killed him ? :)
btw. QB are only dropped in PvP ???? so only PvP belts can be broken by guns because you deserve the loot :D
Heavyporker
05-05-04, 20:28
I don't support the idea. Leave belts to the hackers.
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 20:30
I don't support the idea. Leave belts to the hackers.
Even when they didn't even kill the person?
Heavyporker
05-05-04, 20:35
yup. not everyone has to be able to do everything, and besides, direct drop to ground sucks.
Cruzbroker
05-05-04, 20:40
Destroys the idea of having belt, almost entirely. No. (just a quick though)..
Yes because every kill is a gank. :rolleyes:
Assuming a fight is a fair fight, you don't think the killer deserves the loot?
I have no problem dropping+loosing stuff providing the people who do it are fair in how they do it. However people want the drop back for loot only. I have no problem having alternative methods of getting into the belt providing they aren't easy to do.
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 21:21
I have no problem dropping+loosing stuff providing the people who do it are fair in how they do it. However people want the drop back for loot only. I have no problem having alternative methods of getting into the belt providing they aren't easy to do.
Seems like you want alot of protection. The 1st safeslot is good enough. I think a killer has already earned the loot by killing you.
Or maybe they can lower the hack needed for the person who killed you. Like warbots have double difficulty(I think) for someone with no loot rights.
Seems like you want alot of protection. The 1st safeslot is good enough. I think a killer has already earned the loot by killing you.
Which one of us is playing a red at the moment? :P
As I said, if the killer did it fairly I let them have the loot. If they didn't then I want a system that puts them at the disadvantge I was at when they ganked me. Hacking a belt does this.
A mini game for tanks (STR+DEX based) that picks the lock instead of hacking for people without hack skill is acceptable to me.
But yea the actual killer would get an easier version of the mini game.
Liebestoter
05-05-04, 21:31
Or a mini game in which the tank beats the crap out of the belt with a baseball bat/crowbar/weapon of choice..
Disturbed021
05-05-04, 21:43
Yes because every kill is a gank. :rolleyes:
Assuming a fight is a fair fight, you don't think the killer deserves the loot?
Maybe you've played on Pluto too long? :p On Saturn ganking seems to be all the rage :rolleyes:
If the fight is fair yes the killer deserves the loot. But how do u determine whats fair?
I have been killed, seen ppl killed and killed ppl while hacking a wb for example. They did all the damage but thats not really "fair". But they should "deserve" that loot? Or just ganking someone when they're at half health while fighting a mob. Fair?
Then you have gr camping. Bugs like synching, fataling or not being able to pull out a weapon or use anything :rolleyes: I luv that one. I've been killed in those situations. Those fair?
I think with NC you really can't determine what is fair and what isn't. Maybe the only real way to change the drops would be to have the qbs be based on combat rank or level rather than sl. Like if you kill someone your rank or higher it would be much easier to hack than someone 20 ranks below u.
Tho I really think the whole qb idea really kinda screws over the HC tank class. afaik its the only class that cant really put many if any points into hack. *shrug* I dunno, can't say I like any possible changes from this thread.
Seems like you want alot of protection. The 1st safeslot is good enough. I think a killer has already earned the loot by killing you.
Hmm, i personally think you earned jail for killing someone. I just rather think no safeslot, and keep the belts as they are :) Would be a better solution in my oppinion. But thinking about it again. Its fine as it is. Go work for you stuff and kill in your free time. You shouldnt EARN anything by killing other people but the respect or disrespect of your fellow citizens.
Regards
Xaru
Psychoninja
05-05-04, 22:27
I like the current belt system, even though I dont' even get half of the loot from people I kill because I can't hack, it's still a good system.
It gives hackers more of a role rather than just a, once a week, OP war hacker.
If a newb looses their stuff in a sewer or cave, they can retrieve it.
It encourages the teamwork most people who play this game hate :cool:
Also, if I kill someone theres isn't much to keep some spectator from picking up the item they dropped. Atleast if they're hacking the belt I can kill them :angel:
Anyways, the current system seems fine, dont' touch it :p
Maloch Octavia
05-05-04, 22:37
Simple Solution:
Current Method - Hacker hacks the belt, is faced with a mini-task in the hack panel
New Method - As above, but if you're not a hacker and you want to open the belt, you are faced with a mini-task. Either a diagram of an intricate control panel, with various number keys, command keys. Your mission is to find the combination to unlock each slot. It could be fairly complex, but I'm tired, so here's an example:
(I have no graphic proggy, not even MSPaint I can't draw this)
These are the Slots:
S1 S2 S3 S4 and so on
You select the Slot, it's now depressed
You then progress to a three code Alpha pad:
A B C
You select one, it is now depressed
You are then faced with a three digit code box, with 0-5 or 0-10
Enter the code into the box, and then you have Unlock, Detonate or Recover
If you get it right, then bingo, the slot opens, if you get it wrong, you take damage from the minature defence circuit, which can be based on the Players statistics.
This is naturally, stupidly harder than hacking, and so it should be. However, it's that old theory, that anything can be broken given time.
The Player could be given the option of setting the codes for their Slots via the CityTerm in their apartment (And only the term in their apartment)
So as oppossed to shooting it open, which would be a breeze, you'd see CS squads running around PK'ing and BK'ing (Beltkilling, duh), and as oppossed to hacking, which isn't fair, apparently, you can now use your brain, to gain access.
Oh, and PPU's will cry a barrel over this, because it would hit them the hardest with their stuffed belts, which I don't blame them for.
I think the current system works fine.
If you don't like it, go to Jupiter, I believe they ditched the Safe Slot over there. Truly hardcore. :)
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 22:42
I like your idea alot Maloch.
It sounds like a good compromise. It would be risky(and exciting :p) trying to naturally crack the code if you can't hack.
Btw IIRC, Jupiter does have safeslots. The only special rule they have is beltdrops in warzones.
Maloch Octavia
05-05-04, 22:51
The only special rule they have is beltdrops in warzones.
Aye, that was it, thought that didn't sound quite right.
Still proves they're a shitload harder than the rest of us though. :)
Shadow Dancer
05-05-04, 22:56
Aye, that was it, thought that didn't sound quite right.
Still proves they're a shitload harder than the rest of us though. :)
I wish pluto had the rule. But a majority of the community voted against it. :(
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