View Full Version : resist caps
i've heard varying accounts and want to know...
is there some point where putting more exp in a resist does not change anything? would this include armor, implants, and enforcements?
is there some point for m-c or resist force under strength where putting more exp in does not change anything? (including armor and implants or not?)
thanks.
IceHawk2684
03-05-04, 18:40
well from the way u talk id say ur talking about a tank?
my tank has no force resist // transport... nothing... its all into HC because im an HC tank... my guess is ud do the same for melee so u could cap the new rare melee's coming soon. Im not too sure... im a monk man... monks own... nuff said :) <3
so as far as resist force on a tank u dun need it if u want a nice cap rate on ur guns. ummm... so yeah... sorry for being useless ^_^;;
Any points spent in a resist past 114 will not add to your resists. They're capped at 114. However Armor can add to your resists ontop of that as the skill resist do not reach the actual cap.
Dribble Joy
03-05-04, 18:46
Indeed.
Resists add to armour to give a total armour resist total, this is used to calculate how much dmg to take. Total armour resist caps at 200.
Max resist, as said, is at 114 resist, which adds 119 to your armour total.
(remember to add resists from bones on top of armor too)
the ones from imps are already accounted for, the bones you have to add yourself
(remember to add resists from bones on top of armor too)
the ones from imps are already accounted for, the bones you have to add yourselfAlso remember that bones don't add to the resists in CON and STR. They are counted as armor.
--Stryfe
Dribble Joy
03-05-04, 20:29
(remember to add resists from bones on top of armor too)
the ones from imps are already accounted for, the bones you have to add yourself
This is because bonus add for example: +8 Xray
While an imp adds +8 Xray resist. (XRR)
greendonkeyuk
04-05-04, 00:54
yeah cool ive often wondered which way around that was. thanks for clarifying that guys.
Since this thread is up already I thought I'd ask a resist question that's been bugging me. I've heard people talking about a flip point in resists, were once you reach a certain point in your resists they actually cause more damage. Is this total bull or is there something to it?
Dribble Joy
04-05-04, 01:29
Thick and smelly bull.
Unless the old skill = 255 thing happens, but anyone with that much in an armour total needs to be shot.
Since this thread is up already I thought I'd ask a resist question that's been bugging me. I've heard people talking about a flip point in resists, were once you reach a certain point in your resists they actually cause more damage. Is this total bull or is there something to it?It's bull. More = better. But you also have diminishing returns. (And the hard cap of 200 armor.)
--Stryfe
I know this and all, but why 114? Any reason?
While we're on the topic of totally random numbers.. why 92 bursts / min cap for all pistols (except pulselaser) ? Why 178 damage? why 267 aiming? why 576 on ppu spells? why 648 on apu spells? why 105 freq on some psi, 52 on others, 42 on others, then some like at 2, 24, 10 (i think)...
So there is no point in getting resists past 114? I tested against a fire modded ray of god with 119 fire/energy and 141 and the damage didn't change... Is there no point in tweaking resists? I havent tested with a CS but I always thought at least against it over 114 would still matter.
If there isnt a point to over 114 anymore maybe I should stop drugging for better buffs and try and get a better % on my shelter. :\ .... if that is all that matters.
I remember testing about 6 months ago and over 114 still change the numbers a great deal against weapons like a CS.
BTW I'm talking about a total added up between armor and con based mostly on the skill manager. Did I miss something?
Yes you did jack. 114 max from just con/buffs/drugs/imps (not the bones). So in con (or str in the case of for) the most that matters is 114. Armor in your resists adds to that, max is 200. Don't worry, the skill manager takes the 114 con resist cap into account. That's why you and I both took the same damage for an explosive earp when you had 140 in resist force while i had 114.
edit: let me try say it in another way. The absolute most you can get in a resist entirely from con/str is 114. The only way you'll get over 114 in any resist is by using armor and bones. But the cap for armor+con+bones is 200.
So the highest possible xray for a PE is 168, unless you use a energy fieldbelt or heavy deflector belt or anti-rad suit (all are unviable for a pe. :-P )
Highest possible for a tank's xray is about 168 too, while fire is 200 because of inq armor. Energy is also 200 because of duranium/PA. That's why Xray is generally acknowledged as the best damage type, (except against spies who get mad xray from armor) because everyone else's realistic xray cap is below 200 while fire, energy and force is 200.
Edit Edit: Besides poison. Poison should go away. Only nailgun/flamethrower has poison though, so all's good.
Edit Edit Edit: and psi spells.
I bet I could LoM to 114 and start driving, over cap running, and cap stupid lib freq. :rolleyes: O_o
(edit) Hey Var werent we talking about high resist setups with low health the other day? :lol:
o_O o_O o_O :(
I bet I could LoM to 114 and start driving, over cap running, and cap stupid lib freq. :rolleyes: O_o
Um... yeah...
Kind of.
Most lowtech pistol PEs overcap agil so they can get lots of hlt and good resists around 140 xray/energy/fire or something like that. And lots of Por too.
Edit: Sorry my mind thinks in bursts, like liberators.
Um.. you overcap agil so you can underspec ath in con, thus freeing up more points. The point of me saying that is that you shouldn't ever overcap ath. You won't reach any of the resists caps in con if you're spreading out your resists evenly or 4:5:4 between fire/energy/xray. 4:5:4 is the ratio of energy to fire/xray/force that CSs do, as do many other guns.
Um... yeah...
Most lowtech pistol PEs overcap agil so they can get lots of hlt and good resists around 140 xray/energy/fire or something like that. And lots of Por too.
Right now my fire/energy/xray is 141 and poison 51 (heat1 and viperking). That's with over capped agl... Ok maybe I'm not getting this right but... why get resists to 140 instead of 114?
I dont get it. :lol:
(edit) Hey Var werent we talking about high resist setups with low health the other day? :lol:
o_O o_O o_O :(
AH yeah, but I thought we decided it's unviable because devs/fire apoc totally destroys a high resist low health setup. Any DoT, actually.
If you setup a Tank based around Heat3 buff as a given, you can hit the con resist cap for xray, fire and energy, and get like 174 in all of them. You'd also cap HP and get very good run speed.
As a PE.. hm.. supposing you stay away from orange swirlys, yeah you could I think.
Right now my fire/energy/xray is 141 and poison 51 (heat1 and viperking). That's with over capped agl... Ok maybe I'm not getting this right but... why get resists to 140 instead of 114?
I dont get it. :lol:
He means 140 armor. Resists only go up to 114, but the actual armor cap is 200. 114 resist gives you 119 armor, so with 114 resist and 81 armor, you will hit the 200 cap of 76% absorption.
Right now my fire/energy/xray is 141 and poison 51 (heat1 and viperking). That's with over capped agl... Ok maybe I'm not getting this right but... why get resists to 140 instead of 114?
I dont get it.
140 total including armor and bones (not head imps). 114 is the MOST that can be added by a con setup to your total armor. Things that add to your consetup's resists (not armor resist) are head imps, hearts and PPU buffs. Bones act like armor, and thus shouldn't be counted with the 114 total resists from con, but instead with the total.
AH yeah, but I thought we decided it's unviable because devs/fire apoc totally destroys a high resist low health setup. Any DoT, actually.
If you setup a Tank based around Heat3 buff as a given, you can hit the con resist cap for xray, fire and energy, and get like 174 in all of them. You'd also cap HP and get very good run speed.Personally, I think a tank resist setup based around a Hazard 3 is more effective due to having the ability to mix Inquisition and Duranium armor. Plus you get quite a bit of health (~530 with CON 100), and can even aford to put some more into ATL to offset the PA speed hit, and some END (not very much, but it's enough to make a difference) so you don't run out as much. (This is all with relatively easily obtainable imps, too. No Filter Heart 2's or Hercules CPUs.)
All in all, it's a good setup.
--Stryfe
slaughteruall
04-05-04, 19:09
Personally, I think a tank resist setup based around a Hazard 3 is more effective due to having the ability to mix Inquisition and Duranium armor. Plus you get quite a bit of health (~530 with CON 100), and can even aford to put some more into ATL to offset the PA speed hit, and some END (not very much, but it's enough to make a difference) so you don't run out as much. (This is all with relatively easily obtainable imps, too. No Filter Heart 2's or Hercules CPUs.)
All in all, it's a good setup.
--Stryfe
Yeah not bad really. My tank has a filter 2 and a herc. And i have around 530 HLT unbuffed still 3 CON from cap. I prefer heat 3 over haz. I also take a melee over HC. 3/min RoF on my CS is not enough to justify the HC3 boost. Over spec your AGL to lower your ATH (if your not using PA) if your going to be using PA you need to up your ATH also. If i'm going on a PK spree MB/TH/TG i also like to use drugs for higher run speed/HLT and what not. Nothing like GRing into the canyon and running like a mad man to a safe spot to wait out SI. Umm might have to do this again when i get home from work it's been awhile.
Slaughter
ok this is a bit puzzling. Was there more released since the numbers that are posted on neocron.ems.ru?
Does the math of (Armor X 1)+(Resist X .9) = Total Resist not true now.
Hmm I'm a 50///50 Spy and I have crappy resists when shot at. But I have a full gamma bone set and PA1 on and about 50(I think) in both energy and xray stats. Still those damn energy weps beat the piss outa me :eek:
Dribble Joy
05-05-04, 01:12
Does the math of (Armor X 1)+(Resist X .9) = Total Resist not true now.
This is true up untill resist = 99.
100 and above it is not true, and resist is 'better' than armour.
140 fire/energy/xray? How much hp. You could probably lower them significantly and gain some hp, that will in all mean you can take more dmg overall.
The great holy grail of the con setup, hp/resist balance.
frkline well like others will have posted 114 in any resist is cap natural resist x 0.9 add to armor gives total resist All I say is balance with resists and health is key. Say your gonna have total 200 energy and hope to survive all energy weapons but what is the point in having it if there modded with xray or fire? basicly anything below 120 resist is gonna hurt abit to much and your gimped you need balance. Even if you had 200 energy and 110 fire 110 xray a CS modded with fire or xray will rip you apart if your a tank and got buffs of a ppu the apu's holylightning would not touch you with 200 energy resists and heals casted on you. But apu's fire apoc would drop you in no time as would posion but I never spec posion I just run and hope I can heal or a ppu sorts me out. 130 in fire energy xray resist as a PE is a good start but not the best health is another key part on how much damage you will take imo speed is another thing you need to look at. If your slow you will get hit more if your fast you get hit alot less but if you are fast with shite resists theres no point first HL will break your legs. Yeah getting a good con setup takes time and alot of testing with lomms no one is gonna tell you there full setup cos they worked for it.
Yeah not bad really. My tank has a filter 2 and a herc. And i have around 530 HLT unbuffed still 3 CON from cap. I prefer heat 3 over haz. I also take a melee over HC. 3/min RoF on my CS is not enough to justify the HC3 boost. Over spec your AGL to lower your ATH (if your not using PA) if your going to be using PA you need to up your ATH also. If i'm going on a PK spree MB/TH/TG i also like to use drugs for higher run speed/HLT and what not. Nothing like GRing into the canyon and running like a mad man to a safe spot to wait out SI. Umm might have to do this again when i get home from work it's been awhile.
SlaughterWell, if KK would ever fix the H-C PA so it takes away a ton of M-C instead of ATL, this would be moot. Also, if you're Tangent, good luck GRing into TH without getting smacked down by the turrets.
With the Haz 3 setup, you get about ~570 HP when you use a Filter 2 and a Herc and move the extra points around. It really is a very good setup. Too bad you can't get MC5 chips any more for the moment and FH2's are rare as fuck. :\
--Stryfe
This is true up untill resist = 99.
100 and above it is not true, and resist is 'better' than armour.
140 fire/energy/xray? How much hp. You could probably lower them significantly and gain some hp, that will in all mean you can take more dmg overall.
The great holy grail of the con setup, hp/resist balance.
The point of a very low health ( almost no hlt including imps ) and high resist setup is that Neocron scales down damage when you're at lower health. So reason that's semi-viable is because you'll take less damage from less overall health, and even less damage from very high resists. Also, a single TL3 heal will restore a much larger % of your life as opposed to a high health medium resist setup. The only real problem with something like that is fire apoc and devourers, both of which do DoT (damage over time) which seems to ignore the scaling down of damage.
The resist scale isnīt linear...
From the old skillmanagers (v.2), the resist skills are almost linear with the armor skills, but itīs not totally accurate..
i.e : for every 5 skills you put into a resist you lose the 6. skill point you put in
This goes on from 0 -> 100
After 100, you gain armor bonus from your skill at double rate, until you reach the cap at 114 with 119 armor bonus as its value..
But this is only an almost formula, so it only gives you an idea, of how youīre resists are, it doesnīt tell exactly how they are.
slaughteruall
05-05-04, 14:44
Well, if KK would ever fix the H-C PA so it takes away a ton of M-C instead of ATL, this would be moot. Also, if you're Tangent, good luck GRing into TH without getting smacked down by the turrets.
With the Haz 3 setup, you get about ~570 HP when you use a Filter 2 and a Herc and move the extra points around. It really is a very good setup. Too bad you can't get MC5 chips any more for the moment and FH2's are rare as fuck. :\
--Stryfe
With PA3 you really dont need that much ATH and i never said my HC tank was TT. I'm trying to go TT on my tank but dont have the sympathy to do it (-40 ATM). So i can take a SL hit in TH or do solo TG raids which are quite fun. Unless when your running past the cave the cave team just happens to be zoning out. Talk about bad timing. My tank has killed to many CM's so i screwed my TT sympathy badly but it was fun. And it will be fun killing TG also.
With a Melee 3 and a heat 3 i get around 590 HP. Yeah my FH2 set me back alot. I dont know i have a extra herc laying around that was gave to me. I have 2 full hercs/one DS/ one hawkings/ and 2 parts away from another DS.
Slaughter
thanks for all the help, but i have one more question...
does the melee combat skill have an exp cap, such as the resist cap at 114?
Dribble Joy
05-05-04, 22:38
exp cap?
Do you mean more mc past a point will no longer have any benefits?
Afaik, all skills 'cap' at 255, but no melee weapon needs anything like that, even to fully cap.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.