View Full Version : Concerning Pluto and Saturn
About Pluto: Many players moved over to Saturn. There's nothing we could do against that. A merge wouldn't make much sense, since we will need the qty of realms once DoY is out.
From: http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=97739&page=1&pp=20
I have no desire for a merge. But I would like to bring a few things to everyone's attention, especially KK. Whether this has been done on purpose or not, I don't know. MJS's statement here makes it sound as if they had nothing to do with the current population status, but how can that be completely true?
NPCs
Whether placed by GMs, KK, or random acts of Reeza, there are an assload of NPCs on Saturn all throughout the city that do not exist on Pluto. NPCs, while not real, add a feel for life, business, and overall civilization in the game world. If I were a noob and I walked through Plaza on Pluto... said hi to the 3-4 REAL runners and saw only that, wtf? Nice city. If you run through Saturn's Plaza zones, you have NPCs standing on all the corners, waving at you, coughing, and if you're a noob (or really bored), you could strike up a conversation and see where it goes. Simply standing in Saturn's Plaza 1 and seeing a few NPCs standing around is a better atmosphere than Pluto's Plaza 1, where you see... nothing.
El Farid and Titan Armor
Titan Armor is scarce on Pluto. If you want it, it will cost you a million or more and we're lucky to even see a Scorpion Queen. Evidently on Saturn, the SQ spawns regularly, like all other cave bosses do. Titan Armor is as cheap as 200k a pop there. So if I were a PE, simply wanted Titan Armor, or had a setup I wanted to try with it, I might as well go straight to Saturn because I'm not going to realistically get a set on Pluto in any reasonable way. Another thing Saturn holds over Pluto, that has nothing to do with player population or character slottage.
Like I said, whether or not you realize you're doing these things KK/GMs, you are. These are two points that are *not* player related and *not* politics related. These are two serverside changes, and I'm sure there are more, that DO effect your server populations, whether you think so or not. I've heard it straight out of player's mouths that they play on Saturn because they can get Titan Armor there. And I know from playing both servers now, even in zones with nobody on my local list, I still don't feel 'alone' because of the NPCs around me.
I'm not asking for action, however, bringing Pluto up to speed with Saturn in NPCs would be nice, as well as the equal chances of acquiring items on both servers, but I think it is more important to make sure that while KK may feel they've had no hand in the shifting server populations, you most certainly have.
Shadow Dancer
30-04-04, 22:43
Excellent post FN. I agree with you 100%. Btw your text color destroys my eyes. :D
EDIT:Techi, very very nice sig.
Most of the NPCs in various places on Saturn mention regularly scheduled weekly events that occur in the city and in various other places. I've been playing on Pluto for almost a year and a half, and when I finally came to Saturn for a short while, it was the FIRST time I had ever heard of a weekly event that was not player initiated. We're being forced to abandon Pluto because KK abandoned Pluto many months ago, and the residual effects of being the original NC server are wearing off. We need attention, Reakktor, or your servers will have no population, simply because we will have no place to go.
Most of the NPCs in various places on Saturn mention regularly scheduled weekly events that occur in the city and in various other places. I've been playing on Pluto for almost a year and a half, and when I finally came to Saturn for a short while, it was the FIRST time I had ever heard of a weekly event that was not player initiated. We're being forced to abandon Pluto because KK abandoned Pluto many months ago, and the residual effects of being the original NC server are wearing off. We need attention, Reakktor, or your servers will have no population, simply because we will have no place to go.
Just FYI, the retail Pluto went live after the retail Saturn. ;)
I'm pretty sure the NPCs refer to an event which is player organised, they tell you to contect Dissenter or Hoernerice, who are players, not GMs.
either way, they're NPCs that tell you about them. The only thing we've ever had is people saying "hey let's all go to neofrag" over trade nc or something.
[ edited ]
While I share the sentiment ;) Mods, please feel free to edit anything like this out only because I want my point to stay clear without involving players, clans, politics, or anything community based. <3 Mods
Agreed.
Even about the NPC part, I tried really hard a while back to get some NPCs in Pepper Park on Pluto. I created the dialogue for them and everything. They never made it in though, dont know why. Personally I thought the dialogue they said was awesome stuff. I thought they were definitely good enough to be in game but maybe KK doesnt really want player submitted stuff. *shrugs*
I agree about Titan armor too. I dont mind a rare spawn, but Ive camped El Farid for weeks before and even helped level several players there. Ive seen the bitch once total.
Btw where did MJS even say that? Is there any more context to it?
cobrajay157
30-04-04, 23:01
We like the status of titan armor you can make money if you got some and by putting ncpd would make it really gay like saturn, pluto is better has much more cool stuff like the benches that those loser saturn people dont have :D
We like the status of titan armor you can make money if you got some and by putting ncpd would make it really gay like saturn, pluto is better has much more cool stuff like the benches that those loser saturn people dont have :D Yah the benches are why I play Pluto too. ;) We should start an ad campaign.
Pluto: Because we have benches to sit on since there is nothing else to do.
Shadow Dancer
30-04-04, 23:16
Jest
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?p=1359279#post1359279
He made comments in like the first 3 pages.
Dribble Joy
30-04-04, 23:38
I'm pretty sure the NPCs refer to an event which is player organised, they tell you to contect Dissenter or Hoernerice, who are players, not GMs.
CM FCA's in fact.
Uranus is the same, no NPCs and titan is all but noexistant.
I play uranus in general. I popped into saturn and noticed that you could go into a shop in a lvl 3 appartment in Main plaza 1. It has a bar, NPCs and some CopBots. I think that it was run by NEXT.
I'm staying uranus, but why do these things not exist on Uranus? I feel a tad cheated to be honest.
yea we dont got the same stuff as on saturn a queen that hardy spawns (unless your spamm a gm to death) alotta stuff bugs me like faction counslis that ar hardly or never online
lol gm's had nothing to do with the decrease in populations unless they are in ff and silent?
Shadow Dancer
01-05-04, 00:34
Candaman can you not derail the thread please? It's gonna turn into a flaming fiery pit of clan bashing.
And about the special run bars and stuff, I thought all you had to do was ask your faction counselor to help you out? I remember the Tsunami FC telling me he was asking for benches in P3.
And also, wasn't it Winston Cross(TG FC) who made that special bar/club/whatever in TG?
i am simply stating the fact that people did not leave because lack of events or even no el farid queen 8| 8| 8| they left because the politics went to shit which made it no fun to play there any more and anyone that says different is one of the culprits for fucking the server up
Shadow Dancer
01-05-04, 00:37
Whether or not that's true isn't the point Cand, the point is you're mentioning clan names. And then one of those clan members might come in and say "oh yea, well you guys XXX did this that and this first." Then it's a whole chain reaction. And I think this is a decent thread, I don't want it to be closed.
well actually it is the point sha cus the thread states that saturn is better cus of all these things but saturn had all these well before pluto population went to shit and pluto had that little je ne se quai (sp?) that saturn lacked a good sense of rp mixed with some fucking uber pvp. but that went out the window due to certain players not playing to play a GAME but to win no matter what and that is y everyone left.
(RYL is out tomorrow though)
Nash_Brigham
01-05-04, 00:45
I play uranus in general. I popped into saturn and noticed that you could go into a shop in a lvl 3 appartment in Main plaza 1. It has a bar, NPCs and some CopBots. I think that it was run by NEXT.
I'm staying uranus, but why do these things not exist on Uranus? I feel a tad cheated to be honest.
That's NExT Market run by Mort (forgot his whole name right now).
Shadow Dancer
01-05-04, 00:45
I don't think FN's point is that saturn is better. I don't think FN would even be playing pluto if he thought saturn was better.
And if your point was that certain players supposedly made people leave, then why didn't you just say 'certain players' instead of naming names which you very well know has a chance of turning the thread into a flame war?
Nash_Brigham
01-05-04, 00:46
yea we dont got the same stuff as on saturn a queen that hardy spawns (unless your spamm a gm to death) alotta stuff bugs me like faction counslis that ar hardly or never online
Last time Iw as down there, there wasn't a queen either. This si saturn btw.
Je ne sais quoi. :)
In my opinion a fair few of the problems on Pluto came about from allied factions fighting amongst each other. People tend to say a lot about how they killed by members on friendly factions on Saturn, but that only kicked off recently and was mostly targetted against supposed faction hoppers. Before ND split, most of Saturn was enemies fighting enemies and allies working together, from the large clans in FA/TG, TT/CM to the small, CS/BD.
On Pluto this has never really been the case. There have always seemed to be clan wars which start because of disagreements and have nothing to do with RP or the factions at all. That's why I stopped playing there for a while, I went back to Saturn where the only people I had to worry about were reds.
There were two main causes of this on Pluto IMO. One, the population has been among the lowest of the servers for a while. I think mostly because those who swear by the one char system are in the minority. Enough to justify a one char server (or at least there used to be enough) though. Lower population means less people to fight, and you start to look at people you don't really like who aren't in enemy factions to start a war with. Two, the low population means less FCAs, and a lot of the allied clans warring started before the FC slots were filled, so there was nobody to sort things out when they got out of hand. No single clan was at fault, everyone was as guilty as each other IMO.
i am simply stating the fact that people did not leave because lack of events or even no el farid queen 8| 8| 8| they left because the politics went to shit which made it no fun to play there any more and anyone that says different is one of the culprits for fucking the server up
Thanks for stating your opinion. I'm not saying Saturn is any better than Pluto in this thread; I AM stating that Saturn, from a noob player point of view, and from a player who is looking at both servers, server-side environment wise, has advantages that can make it look more appealing. If you can't put yourself in those shoes, in the shoes of a new NC players, and can't get the politics out of your head, don't bother commenting because again, for the schfourteenteenth time, this is not about politics, players, or clans. It's about the amount of effort extended by 'the powers that be' on each server. While it might be a little of an overstatement now that I've read about the event in PP the other day, Techi's idea is right when he states it feels like KK gave up on Pluto. My two original points are examples of that.
And honestly, I wouldn't have said a word prior to MJS's disavowal of having anything to do with the server's shifting. I would in no way blame KK for it in entirety, but there are obviously underlying actions that, subconsiously or not, make other servers more appealing.
Pluto only feel like KK have given up on them now?
Man uranus felt like that months ago.
I think the real problem is that pluto people have a superiority complex over the other servers but in reality they arent.
The reason Saturn has those npcs and those faction apartments are 1. because the FCs and GMs are active there and 2. because the people have an interest to organise the stuff with the active FCs and GMs to get stuff done.Alot of people tend to be apathetic and then say why dont we have this when others have it? Its because people got off their arses and organised it.
I know there has to be activity on both the player and KK sides of this but I know on uranus there was neither and on pluto there has to be one or the other missing and from what I have heard (hearsay so I could be wrong) that there are multiple active FCs on the server to organise stuff like that with if you get off your arse and do it.
pretty much all the servers are fucked atm, only a new influx of players will fix em
I play uranus in general. I popped into saturn and noticed that you could go into a shop in a lvl 3 appartment in Main plaza 1. It has a bar, NPCs and some CopBots. I think that it was run by NEXT.
I'm staying uranus, but why do these things not exist on Uranus? I feel a tad cheated to be honest.
Actually Uranus does have a Next Market, but apparently when it was placed, they forgot to remove the main key lock and throw in a secondary door key pad. That and since noone is there to manage it, it may have been scrapped before completion.
also alot of the NPCs on saturn are created becuase people work with GMs and FCs to get these things completed. They cant put em on every server if the event is only being supported on one. Also realize that pluto is made for 1 char and others (english servers) are 4. this also affects populations and influences new players to join certain ones.
just my 2 cents for the moment. :)
venus was the best server but FF decided to ruin another server
Liebestoter
01-05-04, 01:56
JUPITER : 202
VENUS : 108
URANUS : 107
SATURN : 251
PLUTO : 49
TOTAL : 717
I haven't seen Pluto over 55-65 in like weeks. :(
wow uranus has that many!
it had like 147 earlier today , pluto that is
wow thats actually pretty damn high
Shadow Dancer
01-05-04, 02:24
Mebbe pluto should merge with uranus.
Mebbe pluto should merge with uranus.YES!!
Disturbed021
01-05-04, 03:38
All I know is the pop on Pluto is sad atm :(
I have been leveling like mofo on Saturn but tbh it just isn't the same.
Hard as hell to find anything on trade chat but a bunch of whining or bitching about whose cocks are bigger :rolleyes: neone know whats the max number of ppl you can have on ignore?
kk how about adevertising, huh? Please please please!
Disturbed brought up a good point, I recently switched to saturn to level up and frankly it isn't the same as pluto. I LOVE one character servers, main reason is cause if I gank a motherfucker hes backpacking out 89% of the time. Saturn i've noticed it like 4 times now being a CM running around MB and all of a sudden kill a guy, 40 seconds later his alt is running at you while your recovering.
There is no roleplaying part of saturn either. All the prices are jacked up beyond belief. I mean come on, 300k for a wyatt earp part ??? ffs.... I see greens killing greens, faction enemys holding hands while pking, and dirty shit like GR camping (since for some reason kk decided to take the CM gaurds away from the GR...). You didn't see any of that when i started on pluto like almost a year ago. Recently 2 certain clans on pluto managed to fuck the whole server over making people lose interest. I mean what is the benefit to being a city clan right now ?? someone tell me.. and it better not be "because you can go into plaza 1"
I loved Tangent when i first entered pluto, we were fighting all the time, sometimes to much imo. But i was never bored. Then as the server progressed more and more people got bored and just switched factions on a whim to mess with our sl. thats where I lost a lot of interest when all of a sudden some dick is CA now and I gotta kill him or be punked out like a girl for running.
Saturn is full of that shit but its where the people are and I guess i'll give it a try, even with the fucked economy. One thing that pisses me off is I can spam for parts I KNOW someone has on there list for trade but they don't even bother paying attention. KK wants this to be a team game, to be a trading style game then throw the servers a bone ffs. With the TL changes to weapons I'd like to see the rare parts drop rate go up, you keep adding items but i'm getting the same amount of parts dropping. If someone wanted to just hunt rare parts to find all the parts to a psicore/marine etc... it'd take him a year just to get the parts himself, and only a half a year to find someone to actually look at there cabs FULL of parts and see about the ones he would need.
That was a lot of rambling, i'm not a fanboy of KK's or anything so most of you won't read what i posted anyway :) but i can count on the GM's to edit something as usual...
F the FCC
censorship is obscene!
Freaky Fryd
01-05-04, 11:25
neone know whats the max number of ppl you can have on ignore?
I hit about 60 or 70 people before it wouldn't let me add anyone else...
:eek:
As for FCs, I can only remember seeing the CA FC (when SXR was still CA) two or three times, and have only seen the Biotech one (since SXR moved to BT) 5 or 6 times. Now, I have been told that I keep missing the BT FC and that he is active...but that just adds my to suggestion of having 2 for each faction for each server.
Knowing that an FC is taking note of what my clan is doing for the faction, and even possibly noticing my own words and actions is a good feeling. It means that we might be making a difference and affecting future events and progression of the faction or even server.
Also, regardless of who is doing what to what person/clan/faction...the little things do add up and attract people to different servers. Community is something we control as a group. If it sucks, it's our fault. If the bonuses and attractions on different servers is part of the server population problems, then that's KK's fault...
venus was the best server but FF decided to ruin another server
sucks to get owned eh?
sucks to get owned eh?
Since Kal was never high enough level to pvp I doubt it.
First, everyone's experience is different. You say that you cant find anything on trade on Saturn and people just whine, I find that on Pluto you can find anything AT ALL regardless of channel, and I still see the same whining.
Second, the irony here is that a LOT of Saturn runners dont like having all of the NPCs cluttering up everything- just more polys for your puter to render. More people to get accidentally killed and give you a SL hit (out at battledome).
Third, NEXT market on Saturn was started by runners that approached the GMs I guess about a full RP market being developed... there are actually 2 such establishments that I know of on Saturn (might be more) and from what I have been told, there might be one on Uranus... and the ony thing stopping all servers from having such a thing (if they dont already) is a group of players willing to push forward the RP.
Fourth, regarding the Scorpion queen- on Saturn now Titan armor is practically worthless. My main has about 30 sets of it sitting in a cab. Is that want you want for the small population of Pluto? Saturation? Granted, killing the SQ is great fun, and its a shame the Pluto runners miss out on that- but Titan Armor alone isnt that big of a deal.
Fifth, I dont think people left Pluto cause of Titan Armor or NPCs. They left because this game is just more enjoyable with more people. On Saturn, when in P1/P2, I make my local list as tall as possible in order to see everyone. On Pluto, no need to resize it. Thats enough for me to stay on Saturn.
Third, NEXT market on Saturn was started by runners that approached the GMs I guess about a full RP market being developed... there are actually 2 such establishments that I know of on Saturn (might be more) and from what I have been told, there might be one on Uranus... and the ony thing stopping all servers from having such a thing (if they dont already) is a group of players willing to push forward the RP.
I think the GMs are in the process of making one for each faction, as Crahn has one now and I don't think we requested it, may be wrong though.
If anyone on pluto wants these things, hassle your FC or mail a GM every once in a while. If you want something done, do it yourself, instead of bitching about it on the forums.
The NExT Market is open to all runners. Everyone is welcome to use the market as long as no weapons are drawn. Copbots are in place to prevent any incidents. If you are on Saturn, plz report any bugs or malfunctioning copbots to Mortis Arware. Thank you.
Pluto is so depressing : ( I login, have the same discussion about how depressing pluto is, then wander over to pepper park, die while synching, then remember why I don't play Neocron much anymore.
Ontopic, I don't think its favoratism or special treatment for Saturn. The extra content on Saturn is what happens with both the player population and the volunteers/gms are active and support each other. We had it for a short time on Pluto, but the players lost interest. We got all the spiffy benches to show for it, btw, Jest, I hope ya don't mind me usin your quote for my sig, I like it : ) As the Pluto pop dropped even farther and players did even less to work with the volunteer's, they moved over to Saturn were their time is more worthwhile. I know I'm guilty of this, I really apologize to the Tsunami Counselors, but the timing was always bad. Our first FC tried to lasso me into being assistant, but at the time I was way overworked leading a large clan. When the new TS FC came along and tried to lasso me into being an assistant, I was at that point too apathetic about NC to put much effort in.
If pluto became active again and showed an interest in working with the volunteer's, I'm sure they'd come back. Then Pluto would start having extra content like Saturn.
Clownst0pper
01-05-04, 23:28
This is silly, Plutos population peaks at 70, its laughable.
The whole elitist one char server is old excuse.
Saturn has extra NPC's u have extra benchs, and some neat little things ive seen.
And most of the NPC's are made by runners for events we hold on saturn every month *hoerneric to thank for that*
Saturn has the population to support such roleplay and an atomosphere.
Pluto, does not.
correction, Pluto's pop max over the past few months has been usually around 180. at night (american time) its around 50-70.
Pluto's population over the past week has capped at somewhere close to 150ish, from what I've seen. Last night, at its lowest, there were 14 people online.
And maybe it is a politics thing. I noted that once members of DB moved back to DarK, FF logged on and took every op they owned, then moved back to Saturn. This in turn depressed DarK to no end, and they all logged off or got mad at everyone and started GR camping with far more people than were needed. Please note, this is just an example of something that causes active populations to drop...I'm not pointing any fingers here at all.
With the 15-1 odds at military base, I decided to go elsewhere to play around, BUT THERE WAS NOBODY ELSE ON. Thus, I logged on Saturn and levelled my APU a bit, where I was promptly killed by some random person from the Crahn Sect that was approximately 6x my level. I was discouraged, and decided to try logging onto Risk Your Life instead, in hopes of something that didn't depress me. It didn't work.
When it comes down to it, the basis of the problem that is killing Neocron is the overall community. People have started treating other people in the worst possible ways. To what end? Why are we doing this? Why must everyone hate everyone else for things that happened in the past to such an extent as to make them quit the game?
If I had the answer to that question, Pluto would be back at 547 ppl online. I've almost given up and let Pluto and the rest of Neocron fall, but I like this game too much to just abandon it because people have decided to start acting like smacktards. Please work with me, guys, this game needs the help of the people that care about it, and enjoy playing it. Let's forget everything between everyone, start fresh, and make this game, and especially Pluto, worth playing again. And if you don't want to work with us and bring it back to life, then please don't be part of the problem that drives people away...just enjoy your time without destroying everyone else's.
Maybe I'm trying to take a role that people don't think fits me. Maybe people think I'm one of the biggest jackasses of them all. If you think so, please talk to me, because I'm really not, and I don't feel that I've come off that way to anyone ingame. If you're with me on this, try it tonight. Log on and chat with some people you don't know without talking trash. Give a noob 20k. Provide a free poke to somebody that just died to persecutors. For people who primarily play on Saturn, make a character on Pluto and roleplay it for a change.
I'm gonna shut up now and you guys can rail on me if you want, but hopefully the point is there.
Heavyporker
03-05-04, 23:03
one - let me tell you that you're wrong about people not getting in touch with their FCs on Pluto.
two - leave off about the damn merging of servers.
three - Pluto has a NExT Market, thank you very much, and it's been fairly sucessful. Not used anywhere near as much as it should, but i bet you, more than the Markets on other servers.
four - I doubt that you have less of a chance of finding something on Pluto than Saturn, the Plutoian economy is toddling along decently.
five - sheer population doesn't give a guaranteed rise in role-play. I've seen more role players in one day on pluto than I have seen in a week on saturn. Add to that the rampant random pking, and that just erodes any arguement that large population or 4 characters makes for better rp.
When it comes down to it, the basis of the problem that is killing Neocron is the overall community. People have started treating other people in the worst possible ways. To what end? Why are we doing this? Why must everyone hate everyone else for things that happened in the past to such an extent as to make them quit the game?
I was looking forward to fighting an old adversary this week. If that's true however that people came back to Pluto *just to spite another group of people*... then yes, Neocron/Pluto is dying because people evidently WANT it to die. Can we please... please... let bygones be bygones and stop acting like little kids :rolleyes:
Aziraphale
04-05-04, 00:19
I have much love for Techi.
Liebestoter
04-05-04, 05:12
I was looking forward to fighting an old adversary this week. If that's true however that people came back to Pluto *just to spite another group of people*... then yes, Neocron/Pluto is dying because people evidently WANT it to die. Can we please... please... let bygones be bygones and stop acting like little kids :rolleyes:
Just think of it as euthanasia. Griefing 4 life.
About the NPCs on Saturn: They advertise some player driven events, partly GM supported. The runners just contacted me via e-mail (gmevents@neocron.com) or got in contact with their FCs (they have e-mail addys as well ;) ). Feel free to do the same.
(Last edit: I know that there are people on Pluto already working together with the Fcs, so the sentence is more directed to those who don't do yet.)
Now, I have been told that I keep missing the BT FC and that he is active...but that just adds my to suggestion of having 2 for each faction for each server.
2 counsellors x 12 factions x 4 servers = 96 :eek: counsellors in total... guess in that case it would be easier to apply to be a normal player then... :wtf:
To fill 24 positions with good people is hard enough, believe me.
The customized appartements (clubs, NExT marke) are projects of FCs or runners who contacted their FCs. We have such appartments on every server. If you compare Pluto and Saturn, I have to say that Pluto got them before Saturn got them (the Phoenix store in TH or the club in the canyon). A lot of additional content comes from the player base.
Dissenter has left, sold his account...
On topic though. I agree, Saturn feels a lot more like a city than Pluto...
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