View Full Version : Take it easy on MC5...
The MC5 Commander is harder to loot due to the following changes (and a couple more to come)
- all boxes are removed (due to some runners using them for exploiting)Thats fine. I used them occasionally to store ammo and vehicle parts but oh well.
- The NPC's without a weapon are removed (since they cant defend themselves it was free xp for all)(I know there is still one in there, but he'll go , trust me)Thats fine. That guy without a weapon was always in the way anyway.
The Artificial Intelligence of the MC5 mobs has changed, They now cry for help when someone attacks them.I always used AoE in MC5 which usually hit most of them so they were all shooting me anyway.
- The zone point to the MC5 Core will be removed (no more zone in, zone out to the safe MC5 Basement)The back room is a great place for people to group up, buff, reset the room, etc. They should change the code so that barrels no longer do damage if a character zones, but PLEASE DO NOT ELIMINATE THE BACK ROOM.
I understand that they want to make MC5 chips rare and that some people were taking advantage, but they need to remember that this is just a game. You dont want to make some things so hard that it is not fun anymore. Leveling should take time but not become an excessive chore. Likewise, getting your character an MC5 chip should be challenging but not ridiculously so.
And even if everyone did have an MC5 chip, so what? Every HC tank on every server has a CS. So what? MC5 chips are not diamonds, they are just a few lines of code. What makes Neocron better than most other MMOs is that leveling and acquiring itemswhile time consumingis not what separates one player from another. After a few months in the game, nearly everyone has the same equipment. PvP then becomes about individual skill and teamwork and not my equipment > your equipment.
omg that really sucks ass if it gets removed
You shouldn't be able to equip a Herculees and Marine at the same time.
One should replace the other. Same for all other MC5 chips.
Then they should be really hard to get, and perhaps boost the MC5 chips a bit.
My opinion. (and a few others)
I think this is relevant seing as you discussed PvP, MC5, and equipment equality.
I think it will make it rather interesting
Forget My Name
30-04-04, 19:18
After a few months in the game, nearly everyone has the same equipment. PvP then becomes about individual skill and teamwork and not my equipment > your equipment.
Amen brother... Finally someone gets how this game works... Amen.....
No cover, 5 120/120 mobs shooting you with CopBot rifles, and nowhere to run when your shields wear off. Way to reward everyone who hasn't exploited and got an MC5 already.
greendonkeyuk
30-04-04, 21:06
people with mc5 chips > everyone else. The "proposed" mc5 changes suck man.
Mr Friendly
30-04-04, 21:15
good changes - dun care bout the elimination of the basement in the back
can just go out front, to gogo & reload, then go back in
but one thing they prolly didnt fix im guesin is the 75% of crashing zoning into Mc5 >_<
No cover, 5 120/120 mobs shooting you with CopBot rifles, and nowhere to run when your shields wear off. Way to reward everyone who hasn't exploited and got an MC5 already.
Go to the mountain and preach this surmon brother. The evil pagans are apon us and it shall be fire and brimstone on them for the rest of their days.
Translation: This removing the backroom will make MC5 a major pain in the ass. It will just stem more hatred for the devs screwing over the people that dont have MC5 chips. One more example of how the community gets jaded to the devs.
ohhh ya Keep it in Game
As far as I understand, copbot rifles (regardless of whether they should still be ingame) don't lag (as much) anymore...
No cover, 5 120/120 mobs shooting you with CopBot rifles, and nowhere to run when your shields wear off. Way to reward everyone who hasn't exploited and got an MC5 already.
leave it to KK to do the unthinkable... I think the removing of the backroom has to be the stupidest thing that could be done.
leave it to KK to do the unthinkable... I think the removing of the backroom has to be the stupidest thing that could be done.
Nope the stupidest thing is still parashock. It will top the list for along time to come.
The changes are well and good if it wasnt for the fact that I crash zoning out of Mc5 about 75% of the time. Being the PPU in the group this would be a bad thing... :( Maybe you can make a guaranteed Mc5 part drop for every kill to make up for the changes. :D
well
won't this mean we have to "just" kill the guards outside first? so you can zone in and out the front entrance?
The changes are well and good if it wasnt for the fact that I crash zoning out of Mc5 about 75% of the time. Being the PPU in the group this would be a bad thing... :( Maybe you can make a guaranteed Mc5 part drop for every kill to make up for the changes. :D
That's already in. It's a plus point, but removing all the cover is not. You can't exactly play the FPS card and then take away all the FPS stuff for the highest level hunting area really IMO. It's going to be Tanks and PPUs only from the sounds of it.
I'd like to beg them to do what the GMs (back in the day) had told me they were planning on... granted this was probably a year ago, but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
the other two MC5 "buildings" in the h_14, make them the same as the main MC5 room. Put guards out front, I don't care...
But let's be realistic, you want people to play Neocron, right? Bottlenecking the HOPEFUL player population of a couple hundred... into one freaking room... is so assinine it makes me want to throw things. 3 Base Commanders, in 3 separate buildings, in h_14, would ease the tension.
Please *sigh*
Nope the stupidest thing is still parashock. It will top the list for along time to come.
-this thread is about MC5, hoping one might deduct, I meant the stupidest thing to be done with MC5.
{MD}GeistDamnit
30-04-04, 22:11
you know you would figure they would re design the area, to at least make it a labrynth or something you have to work at, but putting you in a small room with 3 copbot/godlike mobs is just total bullshit. I can't even begin on how much I hate mc5. Why don't they just re design the fuckin area? Stupid move as usual :(
...the other two MC5 "buildings" in the h_14, make them the same as the main MC5 room...Bottlenecking the HOPEFUL player population of a couple hundred... into one freaking room... is so assinine...3 Base Commanders, in 3 separate buildings, in h_14, would ease the tensionAbsolutely. I was going to mention this also but I forgot.
who cares if they make it harder.
you whine how theres no real hard content then they put some in and you whine again
who cares if they make it harder.
you whine how theres no real hard content then they put some in and you whine again120/120 mobs with CopBot rifles and no cover to fight them from, with no interesting stuff about it, no quest, no NPCs, only parts to MC5 implants, is not content.
If they make the room bigger so you can have more then 2 tanks and 2 ppus without hitting each other it would be okay but as it stands it will make doing mc5 ridiculously hard and as said above will only benefit those who have already got mc5 chips and may or may not have exploited to do so.
1. there is cover
2. last time i went there with my clan i had a great time, good content if you ask me
1. there is cover
2. last time i went there with my clan i had a great time, good content if you ask me
One pillar on each side of the room is not cover. Everything else has been removed. You can have a good time in your clan apartment, if that's how you define content then this game isn't lacking. :rolleyes:
neocron is about player interaction and the game is built around getting players to interact, atm there arnt enough players so theres no content. if you dont find mc5 fun then farm your chips and go do something that you do enjoy
120/120 mobs with CopBot rifles and no cover to fight them from, with no interesting stuff about it, no quest, no NPCs, only parts to MC5 implants, is not content.
Indeed. I'm not even sure what the rational to Mc5 is supposed to be. It's not fun, yet the chips are pretty much required to compete on even terms.
I mean I really don't get it. I can't begin to imagine what KK were thinking when they put MC5 in (the in-game part, not the noobie part). MC5 chips are just a pain in the ass to all involved. If they replaced rather than sat alongside normal rare imps then I'd think it was quite cool, but as it is...
If you had to run around a zone dying every 90 seconds for hours on end to get a gun that was required to make you on a par with lots of other people who'd run around a zone dying every 90 seconds would that be fun? :wtf:
KK are just crazy. I honestly think they've lost the plot entirely, and literally. Do they even know what Neocron is supposed to be anymore? If MJS was asked "What is Neocron?" could he come up with a succinct encompassing response? I seriously doubt it.
End rant.
you dont need an mc5 imp to be on par with other people, if i didnt have my SA i would just take a redflash and be just as good as i am now, only difference is i dont have to drug to use judge now
you dont need an mc5 imp to be on par with other people, if i didnt have my SA i would just take a redflash and be just as good as i am now, only difference is i dont have to drug to use judge now
Apart from the fact the SA has ALL +ve affects, and a lot than redflash at that. Not to mention the slight minor itty detail of nc drugs being BUGGED TO FUCK.
you dont need an mc5 imp to be on par with other people, if i didnt have my SA i would just take a redflash and be just as good as i am now, only difference is i dont have to drug to use judge now
I'm well aware of that. I have only one char with an MC5, and that's on Pluto, where I don't play often. However, whichever way you look at it, an MC5 is an advantage. Redflash for example doesn't give you +5 INT, +5 P-C, +5 R-C, +5 T-C, +10 WEP, +10 HCK. DS is incredibly useful for a hybrid, and without an SA Exec isn't very viable on a PE. It is very much unfair that people who exploited to get MC5 chips are fine, while people who haven't had a chance to get any chips yet are now shafted by the changes. What about new players in DoY? They won't be getting any MC5 chips once they level up if these changes go live.
Apart from the fact the SA has ALL +ve affects, and a lot than redflash at that. Not to mention the slight minor itty detail of nc drugs being BUGGED TO FUCK.
really, wow how could i have missed that :rolleyes:
really, wow how could i have missed that :rolleyes:
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying you did miss it? Or that you didn't? If you did, why are you being sarcastic? If you didn't was there a point to your post beyond spam?
To me, claiming a redflash is an adequate substitute for an SA is just ridiculous - care to suggest why I might be wrong?
cause the only drawback is the cost of 2k /10 mins
cause the only drawback is the cost of 2k /10 mins
And the HLT negative, and the lack of PC/RC/TC/WEP/HCK/INT...
Yea removeing the rear zone is total bullshit simply cause if you go to zone out front you lag like a total bitch and sync for a century and if you get a really unlucky long sync wich happens to often those front guards will fuck you 6 ways from sunday.
if i had a better judge i would have a high rof anyway and i would run a bit faster than i do too
Spikadelia
01-05-04, 02:06
A few questions to the veterans and experienced players out there with MC5 chips.
Do you think the difficulty for new players aiming to get MC5's should be increased this much? It maintains the staus quo of the elite chip owning players surely at the expense of anyone else obtaining them? Of course life and NC ain't fair and there will always be underdogs and holding the whip hand is a good position to be in.
Or making MC5's similar fashion to the rest of the rare pool but with a greater build number and a reduced drop rate, i.e 7 part rare?
How about stripping them from the database and start anew?
Rip it up and start again, the rising tide of rage from those who spent endless (wasted) hours looting for MC5's would be a sight to behold on the forums 8|
wipe mc5's :lol:
you must be fucking kidding
A few questions to the veterans and experienced players out there with MC5 chips.
Do you think the difficulty for new players aiming to get MC5's should be increased this much? It maintains the staus quo of the elite chip owning players surely at the expense of anyone else obtaining them? Of course life and NC ain't fair and there will always be underdogs and holding the whip hand is a good position to be in.
Or making MC5's similar fashion to the rest of the rare pool but with a greater build number and a reduced drop rate, i.e 7 part rare?
How about stripping them from the database and start anew?
Rip it up and start again, the rising tide of rage from those who spent endless (wasted) hours looting for MC5's would be a sight to behold on the forums 8|If there hadn't been so many chips obtained through exploiting, I could understand that point of view. But I seriously believe more MC5 chip parts have been obtained through exploiting than legitimately, and given that situation, there is no way it's acceptable to make things harder for those who haven't exploited in order to maintain the advantage for those who have. It's the complete wrong way around.
EDIT: My suggestion is add a new part to the chips. Each MC5 must first be built, and then activated using an MC5 activator mod, which the commander would drop. All current MC5 chips would be deactivated until modded with the activator mod. Doesn't make obtaining new chips any more difficult, but balances things out somewhat with those who obtained chips through exploits, or simply when MC5 had cover and wasn't brick hard.
Hawkins: unnecessary, not even a bonus.
Riggers dream: nice, but not necessary.
Synaptic Accelerator: For tech PE, necessary to even think of capping without drugs.
For a spy, means you can have less dex/rifle/lore implants, better resists ands health.
Herc: only nice thing is the health
they'll make it harder whatever.
either suck it up and laugh at the whiners or whine and be laughed at
If there hadn't been so many chips obtained through exploiting, I could understand that point of view. But I seriously believe more MC5 chip parts have been obtained through exploiting than legitimately, and given that situation, there is no way it's acceptable to make things harder for those who haven't exploited in order to maintain the advantage for those who have. It's the complete wrong way around.
An uber hybrid on uranus used to get about 15 parts a day for months using an exploit with the glass.
On his own.
Hawkins: unnecessary, not even a bonus.
Riggers dream: nice, but not necessary.
Synaptic Accelerator: For tech PE, necessary to even think of capping without drugs.
For a spy, means you can have less dex/rifle/lore implants, better resists ands health.
Herc: only nice thing is the health
Resist force on Herc is also nice, along with the 25 points obtained from lomming the 5 H-C bonus, that goes into resist force too.
An uber hybrid on uranus used to get about 15 parts a day for months using an exploit with the glass.
On his own.
Exactly. And now the ones who didn't do that get punished while everyone who got an MC5 from him is perfectly happy.
does it really matter so much about the past?
kk cant afford an mc5 wipe with the current playerbase
50% or more of people who worked for and need an mc5 will quit
Dribble Joy
01-05-04, 02:20
It will be harder, but the loot is fixed so that the commander drops one part per kill. no more, no less.
Shadow Dancer
01-05-04, 02:21
You are so right Scikar.
I wish at least that the mc5 parts pool wasn't polluted with crap, but it's STARTING to become that way. Hawkings and riggers are nooooooooooooooowhere near as important as the other mc5s.
bah
Spikadelia
01-05-04, 02:30
Just to continue a suggestion about extending the MC5 to the regular rare pool. The game logic being that the MC5 chips drop whole from the Base commanders as proposed, but that elements of their circuitry and chip design can be found (albeit extremely rarely i.e 1/50th of the chance of a E tl rare) from your standard War Wabbits et al. They would also require seven rare parts to build.
It means that to get a whole MC5 chip requires is still an incredibly tough challenge at the MC5 base but that even a solo runner given enough time hunting and trading can get to own an MC5 from building one from component rare parts.
Hmm having read Shadowdancers post maybe it adds more junk to an already crowded rare pool :(
multiply the commander room x3 then we're in business
Dribble Joy
01-05-04, 02:46
Kal. you on some kind of mission?
The top 26 threads have your name as last poster.
And dont forget, it will be even harder, because the mobs now have resists :)
So be prepared for a quick death :D
Xaru
Dribble Joy
01-05-04, 03:15
One of the new features that is now possible is, that the MC5 Commander now always drops exactly one MC5 Part. Never 2 or more, never 0, always one :)
Harder but no more no parts on 20 kills.
The only reason the back room is being eliminated is because APUs (delete them all :p ) were barreling and zoning. Instead of fixing this problem by say making it so that barrels did zero damage as soon as you zone, they eliminate the safe room entirely. Zoning out the front door is only a problem because of the game's instability. If they eliminated the back room but also said that 95% of FREs were fixed then I wouldn't care
I wouldn't mind if they made it harder in some interesting way. As someone suggested, it could be a deep dungeon similar to the Gaya mine where you had to fight your way to the boss. But these changes make it harder without adding any fun and I thought we were all playing to have fun?
@Dribble Joy: Callash simply said it was possible to program the loot this way but not that they had actually decided to make it one part per kill.
does it really matter so much about the past?
kk cant afford an mc5 wipe with the current playerbase
50% or more of people who worked for and need an mc5 will quit
If they are not absolutly a needed item to be on equal ground then why whould people quit over them being wiped. See you even admit here how important a MC5 part is to a pvp setup in this statement.
I just hate the EQ camping for parts bullshit. There should be more then one way to get the fucking things. Other then trading 20 million and 50 top rare parts for one.
If they are not absolutly a needed item to be on equal ground then why whould people quit over them being wiped. See you even admit here how important a MC5 part is to a pvp setup in this statement.
no i admit that people who worked hard to get one would be right bloody annoyed and would most problally pack their bags depending on how reliant their template is, how many they have, and what kind of person they are and if any compensation is given
They should be really hard to get boost it a bit. Should be chips you are working hard for and using alot of time.
Mr Friendly
01-05-04, 04:29
sry to sounds nub, but so is Mc5 open again? or are these just things goin in next patch er summin?
(shouldnt need a patch for summin like this)
Original monk
01-05-04, 10:30
funny thread, things get twisted & turned, history cant reveal its true sense it seems
dirty things happend at mc5 ...
but i gonna shut up cause i know this stuff is waaay waay waaay to sensitive on these forums ... if its even allowed to talk about it ..
bye bye
edit: wanted to add that the removal of the back room isnt a good idea, maybe good to counter exploits and such ok ... but like kimmyG said, how we gonna get that room resseted normally witouth getting stuck in synch and killed by the guards outside ? more questions then answers arrise
GambitFlame
01-05-04, 10:48
sry to sounds nub, but so is Mc5 open again? or are these just things goin in next patch er summin?
(shouldnt need a patch for summin like this)
I believe its still closed.
Ray i totally agree with your statements, the Back Room is a 'safe' room when you half dead and getting agrro. I for one as a PPU can usually stand up to 3 guards shooting me at once but as soon as my shields drop im a gonner. Removing the back room will sersiouly hinder the ability to get MC5 chips as the non explioters use it as a kinda safe house.
So please KK remove barrel damage from when the apus zone but dont remove teh room as you will find taht people will start to complain more and more about how they cant get an MC5 chip.
Granted MC5 should be hard..which it is currently..but not impossible, keep the back room or give us more cover!
My 2 Cents
Well isn't all this ecactly what the test server is for? Isn't that why they are implementing changes on the test server first and asking people to test them?
As Iced Tea drinkers would say: Don't knock it until you've tried it
Athon Solo
Crazy shit...
I want my safe room :)
Make the commander drop whole implants
steweygrrr
01-05-04, 14:26
Besides trying to figure out whether Kal is for or against this, as his opinon changes every 5 posts, I think removal of the back room is a bad idea from the PPU's perspective. I need somewhere safe and quiet where I can buff and heal up without being pounded by 5 120/120*** mobs/NPCs because otherwise you might as well just go solo with you tank heal and resist 1.
GambitFlame
01-05-04, 14:34
Make the commander drop whole implants
:lol: ahh we can dream :)
Besides trying to figure out whether Kal is for or against this, as his opinon changes every 5 posts, I think removal of the back room is a bad idea from the PPU's perspective. I need somewhere safe and quiet where I can buff and heal up without being pounded by 5 120/120*** mobs/NPCs because otherwise you might as well just go solo with you tank heal and resist 1.
AMEN to that :D
Maester Seymour
01-05-04, 15:04
Well i guess once we try it, it might not be as bad as it sounds. But the removal of the safe room sounds pretty crazy tbh.
I crash a hell of a lot entering and exiting that place and i tend to lag for a few seconds on exiting there too. I rely on the safe room if i get too low on health n what not or if i need to go afk for a few mins, i don't fancy zoning outside everytime i need to do that cos i will 9/10 crash & die infront of those guards :/
It'll be interesting to try it out anyway :p
Maybe keep the safe room but add another 120/120 guard or sumthin? :o
Clownst0pper
01-05-04, 15:09
The back room needs to be removed, people used it to exploit kill the commander 2 much
The whole place needs redoing. Make it a really long dungeon to get through, so it takes a while to get to the Comm. Then it's fine. But KK's approach here is that anything and everything in there can be exploited, so instead of rebuilding it, everything is removed so the only way to get parts is to hack so that your char doesn't take any damage. :rolleyes:
People used the back room for exploiting?
With one tank and one ppu you could bring something like another tank or apu too since there is two safe spots but not needed, You could fight till everything in the room was dead, Loot the commander then zone to the back room to reset it, Since they introduced the fucked up situation of caves no longer spawning when you are in them.
Zoning to the front each time to respawn it is sadistic, Since it is a crash and long sync happy spot.
Zoning in and out and barreling to kill the commy? Thats sounds like a nice slow really shit way. Zoning in and out just HL the commy takes about 10 minutes to kill him. Tank and ppu camped in the room is quicker.
I dont mind if they wipe mc5's, not at all... It's just one more thing for people to whine about anyway :P
Just to clarify, I own a hawking, SA and DS... :)
And no, the para should not be removed. If it was, you'd have to remove all the most effective guns, ie the silent hunter, executioner and such...
Dribble Joy
01-05-04, 15:43
And no, the para should not be removed. If it was, you'd have to remove all the most effective guns, ie the silent hunter, executioner and such...
Um.. OT but... what??
Zoning to the front each time to respawn it is sadistic, Since it is a crash and long sync happy spot.
I agree whole heartedly with this comment, anyone whos been to MC5 has seen the times where there is just a plethora of belts right outside of that front door, granted some may be from the slow pokes who dont make it in in time, but for the most part its the people who are leaving that get owned
I was more afraid of leaving MC5 than going inside, thats sad considering there are only 2 gaurds outside of the door to the 5 compared inside....
Forget My Name
01-05-04, 16:50
So.... all the exploiters kept their 'hard earned' mc5 chips.
KK now makes the mc5 spot 10x harder so the influx of new players will never get a single tech part ( because those with chips in large clans will own that 10x 10x room ).
Exploiters keep chips while new players will never taste a chip unless they join an existing clan ( seriously, new clans dont stand a chance in terms of experience and skill to the older clans ).... This means everyone is going to migrate to the mega clan that has a strangle hold on the ONE spot for mc5's...
GOod job KK, you are now supporting exploiters out in the open.
its practically the same system every mmorpg uses and people dont whine in those half as much as you see here.
for the high end items you gotta fights for em or compete with others.
its practically the same system every mmorpg uses and people dont whine in those half as much as you see here.
for the high end items you gotta fights for em or compete with others.
So in every MMORPG you're expected to exploit to obtain the best items, while they're made impossible to get for people who don't?
Forget My Name
01-05-04, 17:14
yeah, but in "other" mmorpg's, you arent cramming 700 people in a 10x10x room for a crash fest. They all have places to camp other than one spot for items, and even if they are one spots, those other mmorpgs dont crash and free everytime you want to walk into a new room ( zone ).
So, its ok for exploiters to keep their items, but it is not ok to let new players get them fairly? New players wont get them fairly.
"Hey, Imma start a new clan"
-Why?
"Because it would be cool, and fun."
-You wouldnt be able to get mc5 chips
"Why not?"
-Because last year, the 3 big clans we have now, exploited the hell out of it, got the chips through open and blatant exploiting, and now camp it 24/7
"Oh... so... What should we do?
-Join them. after we get the chips, we can say fuck em and move on.
"Ok, so now we are going to clan hop?"
-Yup. Don't you love this game and its deep, deep political structure?
"This game blows. Exploiters get to keep what they got illegally and we have to bend over and bend backwards to conform to enjoy this game? Fuck this."
yeah, but in "other" mmorpg's, you arent cramming 700 people in a 10x10x room for a crash fest. They all have places to camp other than one spot for items, and even if they are one spots, those other mmorpgs dont crash and free everytime you want to walk into a new room ( zone )
you played ultima online recently?
Shadow Dancer
01-05-04, 17:28
Last time I played UO, the hardest mob wasn't as hard or frustrating as the base commander. :p
you played it since doom was introduced?
or even khaldun for that matter?
you played ultima online recently?
Let me be blunt, who gives a fuck about UO or anyother game we play this one, and we would like less bullshit here, and not to say this quote
"ya this is bullshit, but its not as bad as the bullshit overthere"
I understand that they want to make MC5 chips rare and that some people were taking advantage, but they need to remember that this is just a game. You dont want to make some things so hard that it is not fun anymore. Leveling should take time but not become an excessive chore. Likewise, getting your character an MC5 chip should be challenging but not ridiculously so.
And even if everyone did have an MC5 chip, so what? Every HC tank on every server has a CS. So what? MC5 chips are not diamonds, they are just a few lines of code. What makes Neocron better than most other MMOs is that leveling and acquiring itemswhile time consumingis not what separates one player from another. After a few months in the game, nearly everyone has the same equipment. PvP then becomes about individual skill and teamwork and not my equipment > your equipment.
So very well said! Reading through the new patch notes I see more and more things taking more and more TIME.
If KK wants their playerbase up they need to stop dragging out almost every aspect of the game.
It's always too much work and time for too little reward.
Like he said, it's a game, games are for fun! :D
Forget My Name
01-05-04, 19:14
KK had a dream with a ROELPLAYING game with no LE chips and political struggles.
It failed.
Now, to make money and keep the player base, they have been, over the past year or so, turned this game into a EQ model. Everything takes longer and is harder.
The FPS side of the game has been stripped away, and leveling had been put into it's place.
But, I am happy that I "may" have exploited my MC5 chips and have a bunch of chips, cuz when the new players start pouring in ( before they fre and crash, then leave the game ) I will have a way to make extra 'credits'.
Let me be blunt, who gives a fuck about UO or anyother game we play this one, and we would like less bullshit here, and not to say this quote
"ya this is bullshit, but its not as bad as the bullshit overthere"
im just putting across the point that you dont have it worse off.
every person in any mmorpg has to go through a lot of trouble to get the high end stuff
KK had a dream with a ROELPLAYING game with no LE chips and political struggles.
It failed.
Now, to make money and keep the player base, they have been, over the past year or so, turned this game into a EQ model. Everything takes longer and is harder.
Sounds about right, but they are not keeping the player base, people have been and are leaving. :(
im just putting across the point that you dont have it worse off.
every person in any mmorpg has to go through a lot of trouble to get the high end stuff
That's another problem, once you do go through a lot of trouble and loads of time to get the high end stuff, it can all be wiped out from a crappy database!
cīmon !!!
mc5 chips arenīt that important....
I often see peeps with mc5 chips, getting their asses kicked big time..
yea, sure I would love to have an mc5 chip..
so far I have only ever obtained one part of a chip, and I got that from a mate, for a first love part.
YOU DON`T NEED MC5 CHIPS TO DO DMG !!!!
What you donīt have in items, you should practise and get in "RL" skills.
Canīt run fast ?
-Learn to dodge
Canīt aim fast ?
-Learn to aim, or move closer before shooting
Donīt have enough str/dex/int/con/psi ?
-Then you are wearing completely wrong chips. any item can be used without MC5 chips.
You donīt need them, they will just make it a little bit easier to make final tunings to a few stats.
nothing more, nothing less.
No one wanted to believe me, everyone ignored the truth.. People told others
not to buy mc5's for a reasonable 20-30 million on saturn because mc5 will
reopen and easy again..
WRONG!
If I were you guys who don't have mc5's on their main chars (on saturn I don't
either), You better believe you needs to get an mc5 before the next retail patch
or your months of attempts to get this chip will turn into a year. Your gunna
need a whole arsenal of capped players, a huge team to kill this base commander
for 1 measily part... One part, whole team of 10 players....more than half dead
by the time the base commander is half way down it's health...
Maybe then you call genrep back and go back to get rid of the other half of
it's life for that one part.. :rolleyes:
Seriously though... This patch has been comming, we brought it on ourselves.
The AOE ppu + tank combo behind the pillar with base commander stuck
on the ramp worked for you all yes... The 2 APU + 1 or 2 PPU team zoning
back and forth, barreling/HL'ing... worked for you yes... But not anymore..
But I protest, WHAT WERE WE SUPPOSED TO DO... it's insanely overpowered
in the place.. it screams for players to take advantage of nc's flaws even though
we know it's wrong.
I'll be the first to admit it, I had my PPU heal a tank who stood behind a pillar
allowing those guys to get stuck on on the ramp, is it our fault or the AI's
fault for getting stuck there... you decide.. I just healed the tank, we got 6
parts a day from loot and split it 50/50... But anyway...
IF you guys don't have an mc5 yet, I would plan on getting it before the next
retail patch or your screwed... For saturn, if your selling mc5's.. pshh I'd wait
for the next patch, the'll be worth quadruple as much. For Buyers, don't be
cheap to spend atleast 20 million... their gunna be worth 50-60 next patch.
On pluto, spoekhagbard already has 10+ mc5's, he pays up to 60-100+ million
a mc5 chip.. How insane is that.. .But next patch he's reaping the Benefits!
Oh lordy wordy.. you must be off that water bottle.
Parad0x -FBI
This has been brought up before, MC5 has swung from insane to mundane, back and forth. Those that camp the place while it's easy get a free ride. Those that camp the place while it's hard don't get a worthy reward for their work. Nothing came of it then, nothing will come of it now. MC5 is just another way to widen the gap between Neocron characters and BDOY characters. How about all the people that have huge stashes of rares, gotten from when drops were higher. How about the naughty duped high slot weapons that spread around for a while. How about all the cash in circulation from money exploits before they were fixed. I still firmly believe we should be wiped and hafta start fresh in BDOY. Otherwise you're just gonna have people like me around with resources that Reeza would be jealous of. At last count I have 40 some apartments, only using half of them though. I've got about 500 or so rares built, somewhere between 800-1000 rare parts, 600 or so implants, and more. I'm not trying to boast or brag, I know there are many with larger collections then I do. For example some don't have a clan draining their resources like I do. So for them, they really can amass a fortune. Is it fair for people like this to move right over to BDOY intact?
^^
FBI....
mind reading my post above ?
;)
EDIT : @ Carinth ::
I have no problem with people having those items, and those money..
Things like that canīt ruin the game for me..
As someone in a movie said once :
"There are things that a man can get, and things that a man canīt get"
We just gotta find a way around the things we canīt get.
Plz note that I have none of such "collections" nor money that combined would exceed a million on all chars on all servers combined.
Disturbed021
01-05-04, 20:15
I'd like to beg them to do what the GMs (back in the day) had told me they were planning on... granted this was probably a year ago, but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
the other two MC5 "buildings" in the h_14, make them the same as the main MC5 room. Put guards out front, I don't care...
But let's be realistic, you want people to play Neocron, right? Bottlenecking the HOPEFUL player population of a couple hundred... into one freaking room... is so assinine it makes me want to throw things. 3 Base Commanders, in 3 separate buildings, in h_14, would ease the tension.
Please *sigh*
This is all that really needs to be said.
If DoY bumps up the playerbase to what everyone hopes than MC5 will be a nightmare to go to.
I don't care how hard they make the base commander, hell throw 3 in the same room, but for the love of God make either other buildings there have base commanders too or create another MC5 on the map.
How many different zones can u hunt fire mobs and wbs to get techs?
How many different Chaos Caves r there? How many different Swamp Caves r there?
And then they make 1 MC5? With 1 Building? To kill 1 guy? Who drops 1 tech part? :rolleyes:
^^
FBI....
mind reading my post above ?
;)Yeh I agree... I already sold off my pluto mc5 herc a week ago, I needed quick cash.
But, after playing without it and owning people the same as always.. I decided
I don't need it. It's not godly to make u the best, it's just another Marine chip
that sells for 1-5 million.
Parad0x -FBI
Thats fine. I used them occasionally to store ammo and vehicle parts but oh well.
Thats fine. That guy without a weapon was always in the way anyway.
I always used AoE in MC5 which usually hit most of them so they were all shooting me anyway.
The back room is a great place for people to group up, buff, reset the room, etc. They should change the code so that barrels no longer do damage if a character zones, but PLEASE DO NOT ELIMINATE THE BACK ROOM.
I understand that they want to make MC5 chips rare and that some people were taking advantage, but they need to remember that this is just a game. You dont want to make some things so hard that it is not fun anymore. Leveling should take time but not become an excessive chore. Likewise, getting your character an MC5 chip should be challenging but not ridiculously so.
And even if everyone did have an MC5 chip, so what? Every HC tank on every server has a CS. So what? MC5 chips are not diamonds, they are just a few lines of code. What makes Neocron better than most other MMOs is that leveling and acquiring itemswhile time consumingis not what separates one player from another. After a few months in the game, nearly everyone has the same equipment. PvP then becomes about individual skill and teamwork and not my equipment > your equipment.
No offense raybob, in the future please link to where you get your information
that you quote so others can see that it's legitimate, or say where it came
from if ingame etc.
I speculate now after searching Iorghe's posts and threads i didn't find these
posts you quote, anyone help?
Parad0x -FBI
I speculate now after searching Iorghe's posts and threads i didn't find these
posts you quote, anyone help?
Parad0x -FBI
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=97853&page=3&pp=15
page 3 a few posts bellow yours :p
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=97853&page=3&pp=15
page 3 a few posts bellow yours :p
Thanks cyphor.. I hope this makes the rest of u believe this now as much as i do.
I thought it was too bad to be true, alas i was wrong :(
Parad0x -FBI
cīmon !!!
mc5 chips arenīt that important....
I often see peeps with mc5 chips, getting their asses kicked big time..
yea, sure I would love to have an mc5 chip..
so far I have only ever obtained one part of a chip, and I got that from a mate, for a first love part.
YOU DON`T NEED MC5 CHIPS TO DO DMG !!!!
What you donīt have in items, you should practise and get in "RL" skills.
Canīt run fast ?
-Learn to dodge
Canīt aim fast ?
-Learn to aim, or move closer before shooting
Donīt have enough str/dex/int/con/psi ?
-Then you are wearing completely wrong chips. any item can be used without MC5 chips.
You donīt need them, they will just make it a little bit easier to make final tunings to a few stats.
nothing more, nothing less.
Then you haven't played a hybrid, or a pistol PE using Executioner. It's easy to say "Oh they make much difference" but that is completely besides the point, not just wrong. An SA makes a huge difference to a high tech pistol PE wanting to use the better pistols. It makes a massive difference to a hybrid. It increases an APU's mana pool by a third while keeping the same stats on HL. It's easy to say "Oh get some skills then you'll be fine." What happens when two people, almost perfectly matched on skills, fight each other, one has MC5 chip, one doesn't? MC5 camper wins.
Thanks very much, but I'd like a decent hybrid, a high tech pistol PE who isn't gimped, a Tank without low resist force. Maybe you don't bother with setups much, and it's perfectly acceptable for you to have a cookie cutter setup or a gimped one. But that is not a good way to keep people happy, and it is not something that KK will benefit from if they go ahead with it.
Clownst0pper
01-05-04, 21:13
What happens when two people, almost perfectly matched on skills, fight each other, one has MC5 chip, one doesn't? MC5 camper wins.
Thats bollocks, it wouldnt be down to the mc5,it would be down to who gets off the tl 3 heals/hits, and con setup.
Mc5 doesnt make a player, it just adds to a list of available setups.
I h8 all these people who resent those of us who have mc5's drives me mental
Thats bollocks, it wouldnt be down to the mc5,it would be down to who gets off the tl 3 heals/hits, and con setup.
Mc5 doesnt make a player, it just adds to a list of available setups.
I h8 all these people who resent those of us who have mc5's drives me mental
Exactly. Make a PE using Executioner without an MC5, who has just as good resists as a PE with an MC5 using Executioner. MC5 gives you a far better CON setup. Or if you want to look at it another way, resists just as good as a Judge user, but with Executioner to attack with.
And no, the people I resent most are the ones with MC5s and no idea how to use them to their full potential.
It's really wether you want to stay competative or not. Some people don't care if they can compete with the best, they just use whatever setup they happen to think of. For others, every single extra point you can squeeze out of your setup is necessary. As a ppu my DS was absolutely necessary, though there are many ppu's who say it's not. The DS let me do some LoMing and regain lots of free points under PSI, which let me expand my pool and boost my damage/freq some. Frequency is especialy were it counts for a ppu. Also, its one of only two imps that give +mst.
Some rely on their skills and dont care about setup, that's all fine and good, but when someone of equal skill with a good setup demolishes you, you'll hafta realize that the only difference there was setup. You lost because you wouldn't get the right equipment or set your character up idealy. I faced that a long time ago, when I faced the other godly ppu's on the battlefield. I liked my character as a researcher/ppu, I didn't want to give up research at all. But there was noway I could match pure combat ppu's, no amount of skill could boost me up to their level. So I gave up tradeskills and was amazed at how much better I was overnight.
If you want to stay competative you must even the playing field by setting your character up with the best equipment/setup possible. Only then does your skill decide the victory. MC5's aren't the end all be all for character setups, but they give you an edge. If your mindset is one that doesn't see advantage in an edge, then you will be left behind.
I didn't want this thread to be about whether or not an MC5 chip is required to be PvP leet. The fact is they exist and people want them. The current MC5 was not easy but doable. If there were some exploits then fix them but dont make it impossibly difficult.
MC5 parts were some of the most expensive items; however, the fact that MC5 was difficult but doable allowed clanless runners or those unable to kill the commander to complete their chips through trading. If the scarcity of parts increases, these people have no hope of ever getting a chip.
Then you haven't played a hybrid, or a pistol PE using Executioner. It's easy to say "Oh they make much difference" but that is completely besides the point, not just wrong. An SA makes a huge difference to a high tech pistol PE wanting to use the better pistols. It makes a massive difference to a hybrid. It increases an APU's mana pool by a third while keeping the same stats on HL. It's easy to say "Oh get some skills then you'll be fine." What happens when two people, almost perfectly matched on skills, fight each other, one has MC5 chip, one doesn't? MC5 camper wins.
Thanks very much, but I'd like a decent hybrid, a high tech pistol PE who isn't gimped, a Tank without low resist force. Maybe you don't bother with setups much, and it's perfectly acceptable for you to have a cookie cutter setup or a gimped one. But that is not a good way to keep people happy, and it is not something that KK will benefit from if they go ahead with it.
Well, I think I can honestly say I care about my setup..
(ate loms for more than 100 mil worth of experience divided over 3 chars)
And I care about my skills.. I practice NF almost every day (duels, most for the fun, but still).
And I have seen lots and lots of MC5 chars getting owned without getting a single shot in on the opponent.
I have seen draws between MC5 and non MC5 runners..
but I have almost never seen a MC5 runner who won without getting hurt, or who got away with it easy.
I have seen people without MC5 chips not missing a single shot, simply because they had the skills to keep target in box, locked reticle.
And THAT is all its about...
But MC5 chips are not essential to do anything.
Even with SA a PE canīt use executor without 1 drug
Without SA a PE still only needs 1 drug to use executor.
Mana pool ? nice reason....
Boosters ??
2-3 spells, rest boosters, maybe a med pack or two..
dont tell me that isnt enough..
make a room for each of the mc5 chips, make the mob's guns like normal plasma rifles(with more dmg of course) so that they can't shoot around corners, and make the base commander drop a whole imp each time u kill him. That's is my idea of a good mc5.
Dribble Joy
01-05-04, 23:52
make the base commander drop a whole imp each time u kill him.
Though not whole chips, this will be a reality in the next patch with the new loot algorithms.
make a room for each of the mc5 chips, make the mob's guns like normal plasma rifles(with more dmg of course) so that they can't shoot around corners, and make the base commander drop a whole imp each time u kill him. That's is my idea of a good mc5.
in beginning of mc5, the BC dropped a full imp..
but my chars werenīt ready to go there before, they had changed it to drop parts only..
and I never got a part, even tho i killed him quite a few times..
but i donīt need it..
I wouldnīt pay more than 2 mil for a complete chip (not that I have 2 mil, but can always borrow)
They mean jack to me, except a few more hlt points, and 1 extra str.
Clownst0pper
01-05-04, 23:55
When mc5 is reopened im gonna do nothing but farm techs for the new melee rares, i wont sleep till im the first to get the rare knuckles!
And in terms of mc5, well that will get the same treatment, its the best source of income ever :D
When mc5 is reopened im gonna do nothing but farm techs for the new melee rares, i wont sleep till im the first to get the rare knuckles!
And in terms of mc5, well that will get the same treatment, its the best source of income ever :D
money wont make you happy, and cant buy you love......
Though not whole chips, this will be a reality in the next patch with the new loot algorithms.
I want a whole imp tho :) . I remember the first time going into mc5 i thought it was very hard but at least i would get my imp. When i looted the commander I got a riggers dream part. U can understand how i felt (very pissed off)
I want a whole imp tho :) . I remember the first time going into mc5 i thought it was very hard but at least i would get my imp. When i looted the commander I got a riggers dream part. U can understand how i felt (very pissed off)
you should feel very lucky to even get a part..
most players who have been there, havenīt gotten anything even after 10 kills.
you should feel very lucky to even get a part..
most players who have been there, havenīt gotten anything even after 10 kills.
I've never got a part at mc5 (after the first one). I've been many times tho
Dribble Joy
02-05-04, 00:00
I want a whole imp tho :) . I remember the first time going into mc5 i thought it was very hard but at least i would get my imp. When i looted the commander I got a riggers dream part. U can understand how i felt (very pissed off)
1 hour or less for your imp? I think not.
How long does it take to get the normal rare version, the SFs, cores, marines and SSs?
but you just said, you got a riggers dream part when you lotted him.....
riggers dream is a mc5 chip.. O_o
well anyways.. never mind that.
Shadow Dancer
02-05-04, 00:08
To me DS makes a huge difference. Mainly because the only imp I feel can even come close to it, is XP GIMPtroller 3. Which gimps str, in effect gimping transport(a huge deal for an apu) AND gives a WHOPPING(yes whopping, I tested damage recieved before and after XP 3) -20 to force. AND it gives +5 PSI, which I need to wear pa3 so I don't have to pop a drug or freaking relog every damn time I want to wear pa 3.
If XP 3 wasn't so gimpy, or their was a psi backbone or eye that gave + to PSI and allow me to wear pa3, that would be better. Also, look at the only REAL int giving imp(besides psi core or ds) for monks. Adv nerves 3. That gimps your TRA. Alot of monks have to wear it to use heavy belts because int gain is such crap. So you wear XP 3 and ADV nerves 3, and suddenly your TRA is shot to hell and you can't have as much resist force as you want(further penalizing you) unless you want to carry 1 medkit only. Medkits and PA are heavy.
See what I mean? To me a DS has alot of benefits, ALOT. Mainly because monk imps are such crap in general.
I just wanted to say that I think mc5 chips do make a big deal, it just isn't as noticable to some people. You gotta think about it.
To me DS makes a huge difference. Mainly because the only imp I feel can even come close to it, is XP GIMPtroller 3. Which gimps str, in effect gimping transport(a huge deal for an apu) AND gives a WHOPPING(yes whopping, I tested damage recieved before and after XP 3) -20 to force. AND it gives +5 PSI, which I need to wear pa3 so I don't have to pop a drug or freaking relog every damn time I want to wear pa 3.
If XP 3 wasn't so gimpy, or their was a psi backbone or eye that gave + to PSI and allow me to wear pa3, that would be better. Also, look at the only REAL int giving imp(besides psi core or ds) for monks. Adv nerves 3. That gimps your TRA. Alot of monks have to wear it to use heavy belts because int gain is such crap. So you wear XP 3 and ADV nerves 3, and suddenly your TRA is shot to hell and you can't have as much resist force as you want(further penalizing you) unless you want to carry 1 medkit only. Medkits and PA are heavy.
See what I mean? To me a DS has alot of benefits, ALOT. Mainly because monk imps are such crap in general.
I just wanted to say that I think mc5 chips do make a big deal, it just isn't as noticable to some people. You gotta think about it.
SD..
you do know Smart Cybereyes add INT....
(use them on my PE)
cant remember what the costs are, so dont really know if they would gimp the monk further.
Sorry, bad example... monks can only use sce 1 or 2 because of dex... my bad.
Shadow Dancer
02-05-04, 00:10
They add +1 int for the monk. That's why I said adv nerves 3 is the only "real" int giver.
I think smart cyber sex should have INT reqs and not DEX reqs.
Dribble Joy
02-05-04, 00:11
Monks can only reach the first cyber eye, none of the smart versions afaik.
Monk imps are the problem.
Imagine if PEs didn't get the dex and reflex backbones.
I think smart cyber sex That was on purpose right?
:wtf:
Shadow Dancer
02-05-04, 00:39
That was on purpose right?
:wtf:
Why, were you aroused? :o
Yes it was on purpose. :p
Well, I think I can honestly say I care about my setup..
(ate loms for more than 100 mil worth of experience divided over 3 chars)
And I care about my skills.. I practice NF almost every day (duels, most for the fun, but still).
And I have seen lots and lots of MC5 chars getting owned without getting a single shot in on the opponent.
I have seen draws between MC5 and non MC5 runners..
but I have almost never seen a MC5 runner who won without getting hurt, or who got away with it easy.
I have seen people without MC5 chips not missing a single shot, simply because they had the skills to keep target in box, locked reticle.
And THAT is all its about...
But MC5 chips are not essential to do anything.
Even with SA a PE canīt use executor without 1 drug
Without SA a PE still only needs 1 drug to use executor.
Mana pool ? nice reason....
Boosters ??
2-3 spells, rest boosters, maybe a med pack or two..
dont tell me that isnt enough..
PE with SA setup to use Exectioner has better defence than PE without SA setup to use Executioner. That's the difference. It's all well and good having great aim, but when you fight someone else with both great aim and an MC5 chip, he has the advantage. I don't understand why you can't see that.
Even if the chip isn't very valuable (and I still believe it is) that doesn't justify denying it to people just because they didn't exploit to get one earlier.
but you just said, you got a riggers dream part when you lotted him.....
riggers dream is a mc5 chip.. O_o
well anyways.. never mind that.
don't bully me...im tired
Really... what the hell was wrong with mc5 ?, I didnt see the forums cramming up with people screaming for mc5 to be nerfed or anything. Not like a lot of the problems that havent even started to be solved. :( (Tho I did smile seeing the recycling recipies being incorporated to the TS which I remember talking about months ago...)
Someone please tell me the community wanted this...
Really... what the hell was wrong with mc5 ?, I didnt see the forums cramming up with people screaming for mc5 to be nerfed or anything. Not like a lot of the problems that havent even started to be solved. :( (Tho I did smile seeing the recycling recipies being incorporated to the TS which I remember talking about months ago...)
Someone please tell me the community wanted this...
No the GM's felt that is was being exploited. That is the reason for the change. The line here of what we call an exploit is very thin also. They think that getting the base commander traped at the ramp and using aoe on him is an exploit. Well i ask you this are these not also exploits.
Grim Chasers and the hills around syncon. We all know you can hug the wall and the grim will not hit you as the hill blocks his right arm. You can still shoot him with speed gat as your right side is clear. That is the same type of mob AI exploit.
Launchers cant come in the MB bunker so you sit in the bunker with nade launcher and blast the door area. mobs take damage at the door and through teh wall. Great way to start a tank. Same type of exploit.
APU's using the clipping plane to hit mobs that can fire back at them. Like in the CC at TG.
Warbots had the range changed on thier weps. The AI wasnt updated for the warbot he stands there at long range and thinks he is hitting you and doesnt close range. A guy with a TAR can sit there and take warbots down all day. That is also a exploit of MOB AI.
To me it didnt need fixing just expanded so that there was more then one spot to get MC5 chips.
The line here of what we call an exploit is very thin also. They think that getting the base commander traped at the ramp and using aoe on him is an exploit. Well i ask you this are these not also exploits....Grim Chasers...we all know you can hug the wall and the grim will not hit you as the hill blocks his right arm. You can still shoot him with speed gat as your right side is clear. That is the same type of mob AI exploit.
Launchers cant come in the MB bunker so you sit in the bunker with nade launcher and blast the door area. mobs take damage at the door and through teh wall. Great way to start a tank. Same type of exploit.
APU's using the clipping plane to hit mobs that can fire back at them. Like in the CC at TG.
Warbots had the range changed on thier weps. The AI wasnt updated for the warbot he stands there at long range and thinks he is hitting you and doesnt close range. A guy with a TAR can sit there and take warbots down all day. That is also a exploit of MOB AI.
To me it didnt need fixing just expanded so that there was more then one spot to get MC5 chips.Wow. You are so damn right. It is these types of discoveries that we all make in every computer game we play. It is what separates PvM and PvP. Mobs are supposed to have some flaws that allow us to level and earn loot.
KK seems to think that if people are actually getting MC5 parts then something must be wrong. We must be exploiting. Any APU that gets his MC5 parts by barreling and zoning has my blessing to keep doing so. Constant zoning in this game is an absolute bore and if that is the only way some APUs can get there parts then God bless them.
I have hunted fire mobs for over a year with my tank and I do everything I can to stay alive. Even a fully capped CON tank with 200+ fire armor takes insane damage from a chaser. As you said, we all know they shoot from their right arm so we try to hunt them with a hill or building on our left.
My spy hunts WBs and fire mobs all the time by using the fact that rifles have great range and can kill well outside of the mobs range.
AoE damage was designed for a reason. Every tank and APU in the game has used AoE weapons to kill mobs and level while minimizing the damage they take. It is common sense.
Are all these exploits also?
When they first closed MC5 I thought it was because there was some blatant exploit that allowed people to easily get MC5 parts. Now it seems that the simple common sense things we all do to survive that hell hole are considered an exploit.
Tanks are not supposed to use AoE? You want us to go toe-to-toe with a CS and last 5 seconds? One guys out of 5 walking around without a weapon was an experience exploit? Are you insane? You really think people go to MC5 to kill that guy and level? I better stop. :mad:
I am one of those weird people that actually enjoyed going to MC5. Not because I needed to but because it was challenging. I gave away the parts to friends and clan mates. I really enjoyed it. I could spend 2 hours there and come back with anywhere from 3 to 10 parts. Looting the body after a kill was a thrill; you never knew what you were going to get. I sincerely hope they do not make him drop one part per kill as that would ruin the suspense and much of the fun. I have gone 11 kills without a part but have also looted 4 from a single kill.
We have been waiting 2 months for MC5 to reopen after what was supposed to be a fix of some sort of horrible exploit. Now it seems the entire place is being redesigned because every single thing people were doing to get parts is considered an exploit.
Martin, how many hours have you spent in MC5? Have you actually played a tank, APU, or PPU for several hours a day, day after day, in MC5? Those of us that have can tell you that MC5 is work. We have earned our chips and want to continue doing so. Please dont let MC5 become a ridiculously impossible joke.
I am one of those weird people that actually enjoyed going to MC5. Not because I needed to but because it was challenging. I gave away the parts to friends and clan mates. I really enjoyed it. I could spend 2 hours there and come back with anywhere from 3 to 10 parts. Looting the body after a kill was a thrill; you never knew what you were going to get. I sincerely hope they do not make him drop one part per kill as that would ruin the suspense and much of the fun. I have gone 11 kills without a part but have also looted 4 from a single kill.
We have been waiting 2 months for MC5 to reopen after what was supposed to be a fix of some sort of horrible exploit. Now it seems the entire place is being redesigned because every single thing people were doing to get parts is considered an exploit.
Martin, how many hours have you spent in MC5? Have you actually played a tank, APU, or PPU for several hours a day, day after day, in MC5? Those of us that have can tell you that MC5 is work. We have earned our chips and want to continue doing so. Please dont let MC5 become a ridiculously impossible joke.
Tanks can barrel and zone?
To me the exploit sounds like an unfair advantage to APUs, who could barrel, zone, come back un-aggrod while the barrel would still be going and barrel again. I say gj KK for gtting rid of it.
And I repeat once again the motto of iced tea drinkers everywhere:
Don't knock it until you've tried it
Athon Solo
THE_TICK!!!!
02-05-04, 11:06
cool..will be hard as hell but ill deal with it somehow :) as far as having a mc5 chip to compete thats total bs..i dont have any...and i can take 8 out of ten monks.with little to no problem.
If you barreled zoned then then zoned back when the barrel was still running, all the mobs being affected by it insta aggro'd on whoever zoned in AFAIR. Could be wrong though.
Well its too much to read so I didnt do more than 5 or so pages.
For all I care put a thousand commanders in the room as long as the backroom is still there. The odds of crashing when you zone out the front entrance is like 6/10 times, and crashing there is if yer not a ppu atleast a 80% chance that you will die. Its also possible for a ppu to die there aswell. If you zone crash into the backroom it's not.
The backroom is nice to use to reset and wait in when there is others there and you are taking turns in killing, its nice to have when you need to clone up stuff and so on.
About all the exploiting, I think aswell that there probably are alot of implants arround obtained that way but everyone havent exploited, it took fucking forever to farm enough parts, and it's the most retarded place to be in the whole of neocron, the bugs you get in that room is extreemly annoying.
So put all the good changes in and keep the room, put more mobs in the room if you like but dont make me zone out the front everytime and crash and die and shit cause that will just make me logoff pissed for the day.
steweygrrr
02-05-04, 12:34
Tanks can barrel and zone?
To me the exploit sounds like an unfair advantage to APUs, who could barrel, zone, come back un-aggrod while the barrel would still be going and barrel again. I say gj KK for gtting rid of it.
And I repeat once again the motto of iced tea drinkers everywhere:
Don't knock it until you've tried it
Athon Solo
Solo, go back and read my post. Yeah it's all well and good that the combat classes get the back room 'exploit' removed but what about the poor people who have to PPU you? We NEED that back room. Even with /set god_mode 1 buffs running you still get hammered when everyone else has gone down. You need somewhere quiet to rest, heal up, recharge your buffs and plan how to do the rezzings you need to do.
Otherwise, like I said before, you may as well just solo it with Tank heals and medikits because thats how much use a dead PPU is
I never liked MC5 much, I just think the idea of uber mobs in a small room isnt very origional and un-neocron like :/
Solo, go back and read my post. Yeah it's all well and good that the combat classes get the back room 'exploit' removed but what about the poor people who have to PPU you? We NEED that back room. Even with /set god_mode 1 buffs running you still get hammered when everyone else has gone down. You need somewhere quiet to rest, heal up, recharge your buffs and plan how to do the rezzings you need to do.
Otherwise, like I said before, you may as well just solo it with Tank heals and medikits because thats how much use a dead PPU is
But you haven't seen all the changes they've made to MC5 put together and tried it have you? You're assuming this is the only change, but according to the patch notes and what the devs have said there's new map files in this patch (have they perhaps re-designed MC5 compeltely?)
The fact is that no one here has even claimed to have actually been onto the test server yet, which leads me to believe that in all likely-hood nobody has.
You're taking a single change and taking it out of the context of the whole patch.
Don't knock it until you've tried it.
Athon Solo
steweygrrr
02-05-04, 14:27
But you haven't seen all the changes they've made to MC5 put together and tried it have you? You're assuming this is the only change, but according to the patch notes and what the devs have said there's new map files in this patch (have they perhaps re-designed MC5 compeltely?)
The fact is that no one here has even claimed to have actually been onto the test server yet, which leads me to believe that in all likely-hood nobody has.
You're taking a single change and taking it out of the context of the whole patch.
Don't knock it until you've tried it.
Athon Solo
The map changes are the DoY tunnels.
What my point is, Mc5 is nigh on impossible without three PPU's and 5 tanks if you don't have that back room. None but the largest clans can get that kind of team together so it will lead to yet another big clan stranglehold on MC5.
Clownst0pper
02-05-04, 15:28
Um with or without the back room myself, and a PPU can do it, without anyone else.
Holy Fire Storm = Ur friend.
Its easy, I love mc5, ive always found it tense and challenging, if not a little easy with holy fire storm :)
Nothing will change with removing the back room, when it was first introduced no one ever went into the back room anyway, they would enter mc5, run in, kill the commander, exit and run to the "gr"
it will just be like that :D
The map changes are the DoY tunnels.
What my point is, Mc5 is nigh on impossible without three PPU's and 5 tanks if you don't have that back room. None but the largest clans can get that kind of team together so it will lead to yet another big clan stranglehold on MC5.
You completely missed my point. How do you know it will take 5 tanks and 3 PPU's if you haven't tried it?
And MC5 map HAS changed because at the minimum they've removed the back room and the boxes as well as removing some of the mobs - who's to say what other changes have been made? Have you been on test server yet and tried it?
You haven't taken into account the fact that the AI of the mobs has been changed. We've been told that they now 'cry for help', but there may have been other changes too.
None but the largest clans can get 3 or 4 people together for an MC5 run? That's total BS. Think before you write.
The only time I've heard complaints about clans having a strangle-hold was because those clans would PK anyone else who went into MC5 at the same time (and I'm sure it still happens from time-to-time, as with all levelling grounds), but they can't hold it 24-7-365 like that. And if that does become a big problem then I'm sure either some players or KK will work to sort it out. Any such 'strangle hold' has never lasted long.
Athon Solo
You completely missed my point. How do you know it will take 5 tanks and 3 PPU's if you haven't tried it?
We have no faith in KK. Well that might be wrong we have faith in KK. We have absolute faith they will FUCK IT UP.
dont ever forget what they did with parashock
KTHXBYE
If mc5 is being changed, how about doing the one change that actually needs to be done?
Change it from a bloody hunting zone to an anarchy zone.
Not being able to go there and gank all red people Due to the SL inside is a joke. Highest level dungeon in the game has the same protection as the newbie leveling sewers.
Infact why not remove hunting zones all togethor since they are an incredible fucking lame dumb witted moronic stupid deranged fuckwit of an idea for a game boasting its PvP non care bear attitude. I am surprised there is not PvM safe zones yet where you can only hurt mobs and not other runners.
steweygrrr
02-05-04, 18:09
You completely missed my point. How do you know it will take 5 tanks and 3 PPU's if you haven't tried it?
And MC5 map HAS changed because at the minimum they've removed the back room and the boxes as well as removing some of the mobs - who's to say what other changes have been made? Have you been on test server yet and tried it?
No I haven't missed your point at all. Without the back room it WILL take 3 PPUs - one to rezz the dead one, one to heal and one to be a target and the tanks are there to keep up the damage output and soak incoming hits.
Tell you what. When MC5 reopens, I'll take your tank and PPU for you there without a back room. Then when I have nowhere to run when getting hammered you might see my point.
No, you deserve sl hits for pk'ing in MC5. You're being counterproductive and ruining the place for everyone else. On Pluto all the clans agreed that MC5 was a safe zone, none of us would fight there. Everyone's goal is to camp the place for a few hours, if you start killing then you will hafta fend off the mobs at the same time expecting an assault from the friends of the ppl you killed. Dying their is a pain in the arse, with no gr in zone, and most likely no friendly gr anywhere near. You hafta arrive over at escador for the closest neutral gr. There are plenty of places to go for pvp, MC5 is for getting chip parts. If you kill there, you end up spending more time being ganked and not getting any parts.
Is it really fun to gank? It doesn't take much to kill someoene who's camping at MC5, with the guards already aggressive to your target, you can kill them quickly. Or maybe it's that you can't kill people unless they're distracted.
Dribble Joy
02-05-04, 18:15
Have you been on test server yet and tried it?
You can't, the maps were not included in the TS patch, otherwise it would ruin the surprise.
No, you deserve sl hits for pk'ing in MC5. You're being counterproductive and ruining the place for everyone else. On Pluto all the clans agreed that MC5 was a safe zone, none of us would fight there.
With the numbers on pluto that would not be hard. Its carebear what ever way you look at it though.
Everyone's goal is to camp the place for a few hours, if you start killing then you will hafta fend off the mobs at the same time expecting an assault from the friends of the ppl you killed. Dying their is a pain in the arse, with no gr in zone, and most likely no friendly gr anywhere near. You hafta arrive over at escador for the closest neutral gr.
Life is hard? waaaaaaah
There are plenty of places to go for pvp, MC5 is for getting chip parts. If you kill there, you end up spending more time being ganked and not getting any parts.
Plenty of places to gank people mc5 being one of them. A place you know you are likely to find high level runners. Why would anyone want to make it easy for there enemy to get teh best shit in the game. Or allow more mc5 in the game not belonging to them, its defeats self interest.
Is it really fun to gank? It doesn't take much to kill someoene who's camping at MC5, with the guards already aggressive to your target, you can kill them quickly. Or maybe it's that you can't kill people unless they're distracted.
Ganking is great fun. Of course it takes skill to kill some one in mc5. They are always buffed up for a start, compared to many other places. People can zone to lose the aggro the guards have of them.
[ edited ]
Shadow Dancer
02-05-04, 18:36
When it was first introduced it had glass. It should have stayed that way.
Anyways I lost interest in mc5 after the rezz nerf. It was just too boring and frustrating waiting for a 24 second rezz every time I died(which was about 80x per kill).
hahaha, alright gestra. Your attitude pretty much proves my point. You don't care about anyone but yourself. Yes it is easy to kill people at MC5. I have done it before. When you are camping MC5, often ppu's will not give every single combat buff, they might for example not cast deflector. The ppu themselves will prolly keep all the right buffs up, because ppu's are paranoid. What really makes it easy though is, the mobs are aggressive to the people you are trying to kill. All you hafta do is shoot them up while they hide. If they move out from hiding, they get nailed by both you and the mobs. There's noway the ppu can rez, so if he doesn't kick the bucket, he'll be runnin away.
Now we come to the big reason why you shouldn't have killed ppl at MC5. You are now a jackass and have branded yourself kos. The people you killed will most likely tell others that hunt at MC5 to watch out for you. You've now got lots of very angry players who will gank you whenever they get the chance. On a well populated server you should have very little chance of hunting at MC5 for very long. Someoen will check to see if you're there and bring along friends to ruin your hunting trip. That's what woudl have happened on Pluto, when you act like a punk, you're treated like one. You can't hide behind your other characters or your clan.
hahaha, alright gestra. Your attitude pretty much proves my point. You don't care about anyone but yourself. Yes it is easy to kill people at MC5. I have done it before. When you are camping MC5, often ppu's will not give every single combat buff, they might for example not cast deflector. The ppu themselves will prolly keep all the right buffs up, because ppu's are paranoid. What really makes it easy though is, the mobs are aggressive to the people you are trying to kill. All you hafta do is shoot them up while they hide. If they move out from hiding, they get nailed by both you and the mobs. There's noway the ppu can rez, so if he doesn't kick the bucket, he'll be runnin away.
Now we come to the big reason why you shouldn't have killed ppl at MC5. You are now a jackass and have branded yourself kos. The people you killed will most likely tell others that hunt at MC5 to watch out for you. You've now got lots of very angry players who will gank you whenever they get the chance. On a well populated server you should have very little chance of hunting at MC5 for very long. Someoen will check to see if you're there and bring along friends to ruin your hunting trip. That's what woudl have happened on Pluto, when you act like a punk, you're treated like one. You can't hide behind your other characters or your clan.
KOS dear god no. You mean people might actively participate in pvp in a pvp game?
Those plutions there just sooo mean.
You dont need to hide behind anything. You use you skill as a weapon and slay thy enemy. If a whole team can not get out of mc5 when the enemy is first spotted, shit co ordination on there part nothing else. Perhaps when you see red in mc5 you should not keep cowering behind your box in your corner and instead run group and then fight.
And you mean enemy trying to stop enemy at mc5 perish the fucking thought, I mean really perish it. Fighting rather than tea and biscuits really what is the world coming too.
jam anyone?
KOS dear god no. You mean people might actively participate in pvp in a pvp game?
Those plutions there just sooo mean.
You dont need to hide behind anything. You use you skill as a weapon and slay thy enemy. If a whole team can not get out of mc5 when the enemy is first spotted, shit co ordination on there part nothing else. Perhaps when you see red in mc5 you should not keep cowering behind your box in your corner and instead run group and then fight.
And you mean enemy trying to stop enemy at mc5 perish the fucking thought, I mean really perish it. Fighting rather than tea and biscuits really what is the world coming too.
jam anyone?
Nevermind, you live in an entirely different world. You can get away with it on Saturn I guess. On Pluto your reputation follows you and you hafta actualy deal with the consequences. We agreed to not fight at MC5 because it was in our best interest. We could get parts and get out of that awful zone as soon as possible. Then we could go back to having fun fighting at ops or at pepper park. I'm sorry you only have ganking as an option for fun pvp. That's proly the least fun activity for me in Neocron. There's no challenge and it's over quickly. Plus it tends to piss off people. But then you don't care about anyone but yourself, so I suppose it's not a bad thing to piss people off. Personaly pvp with friends is much more enjoyable then pvp with enemies. People who hate you tend to go for victory is everything, whereas friends are fighting purely for the fun of the fight.
Dribble Joy
02-05-04, 19:37
People who hate you tend to go for victory is everything, whereas friends are fighting purely for the fun of the fight.
The reason I am addicted to Dueling.
___T-X____
02-05-04, 20:05
[Edited - Ulle]
I've paid far to much money to be excluded from the capped players that have these mc5 chips. And where do WoC skills come in ? Will it make them super uber if they have a mc5....
When it was first introduced it had glass. It should have stayed that way.
I quite agree, or switched the glass to solid wall that goes to the ceiling. Either that or KK should wipe every MC5 chip and part on the server so that everyone has to work equally hard for the bonus they give. But then we already know that some people don't like that idea - namely the ones who had an easier time killing the commander.
I'm hoping that overall the difficulty level won't go up too far this time, with the commander now dropping 1 part every single time.
As to the maps not being included on the test server, IMO that's kind of stupid. Whole point of the test server is to test the changes before they go retail. But then maybe that's just KK for you.
Athon Solo
___T-X____
02-05-04, 20:09
I quite agree, or switched the glass to solid wall that goes to the ceiling. Either that or KK should wipe every MC5 chip and part on the server so that everyone has to work equally hard for the bonus they give. But then we already know that some people don't like that idea - namely the ones who had an easier time killing the commander.
amen - and i even managed to use a slidey bar thing to reinforce my point
Clownst0pper
02-05-04, 20:30
Oh yeah cos i love the idea of those selfish tits wanting my 5 mc5 chips removing just because I joined the game 4 months earlier.
Yeah sure.
Are u going to reinburse my thousands of techs, guns, imps, and Id say up to 200million used to asertain these 5 chips o_O
Oh yeah cos i love the idea of those selfish tits wanting my 5 mc5 chips removing just because I joined the game 4 months earlier.
Yeah sure.
Are u going to reinburse my thousands of techs, guns, imps, and Id say up to 200million used to asertain these 5 chips o_O
No, but I'm sure 100K nc can be arranged =P
Athon Solo
Clownst0pper
02-05-04, 21:08
No, but I'm sure 100K nc can be arranged =P
Athon Solo
Just my point, all the fools who dont make any effort to trade for mc5 chips resent those of us who have worked hard for them, they just presume because we got a chip when the glass was in, that we had it easy.
Yeah, SMB's
/edit
fuck it not even worth acknowledging the whole wipe mc5 chips from everyone idea.
all u selfish tards should go play candyland.
___T-X____
02-05-04, 22:08
2 were given to me by ppl quitting the game, 1 was bought at very very expensive price and the 3rd a clan gave to me. 2 were worked hard for. 2 months of killing that very hard commander.
Yea, and you expect me to work 10x harder because you got your chips when MC5 had a floored design and was exploitable.
I spent about 3 million getting the parts to make 100 Heavy ultima BP's when they were BPable, because we thought they were going to stay like that and be BP'ed in the same way rare drones are. Turn out next time I log on, i got 100 empty BP's, and no 100k because they made a mistake with that. MC5 chips are no different, you should get them wiped and grind like the rest of us in the way mc5 is supposed to be -not-exploitable/easy
___T-X____
02-05-04, 22:10
I thought being selfish was having something that no-else has, but you have and dont want to share it. So that makes everyone that is unable to get an mc5 chip selfish...oh wait....
I spent about 3 million getting the parts to make 100 Heavy ultima BP's when they were BPable, because we thought they were going to stay like that
Oh man, that is the greatest bullshit ever. Everyone knew the ultimas being BPable was a bug.
Certain people knowing that a patch was comming to fix the bug made massive BP of the ultima's in hope of being able to abuse the bug long after it got fixed, as had worked for other items previous eg, tank PA, smart cyber eye 4. They got quite nicely shafted, when the BPs became useless though when they were wiped along with the ultimas.
Such a shame.
t x heres a tissue. stop whining ffs
get over it ok? so you missed the school bus. grab a cab
in laymans terms, it wont be impossible. so stop taking the piss and just deal with it, its not going to change. fuking the whole server because u feel cheated isnt going to resolve anything
this may bring satisfaction to you, but it will make everyone who got a chip the right way want to quit, that doesnt sound like a solution to me.
get over it already. you sound like someone who got his lunch money stolen. quick everyone throw your money away because i dont have any to buy my food with.
ghandisfury
02-05-04, 22:46
My two cents if I may...
I didn't do MC5 until they removed the glass. I spent 2 weeks straight getting my DS and SA (among getting other people thier parts). I honestly don't believe that these changes will hit as hard as everybody thinks. However, there is a bigger problem. Actually there are two big problems.
#1, the drop rate is horrible.
#2, there is only one spot in the game to get the chips.
If they made changes to make more than one spot, and doubled the drop rate, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
MC5 should be hard, and it should be harder than it already is. It shouldn't be hard without reward, and unachievable because you have to "share".
Clownst0pper
02-05-04, 22:50
I never exploited once in MC5, nor did I ever get an Mc5 when the glass was present.
For you to spurt out rubbish that because I have mc5 chips and you do not, that U expect me to have attained them in any other way except legitamatly, then u have some fucking issues.
As i say, just because u cant be arsed to trade/save to be able to get mc5 chips, doesnt mean u should blame the rest of us.
Hell, ive only ever got one mc5 chip through going to mc5 and thats my riggers dream, My SA was given to me, My Herc i traded for, My second SA I bought, and my DS I traded/bought.
Whats ur point? its not possible, yeah right.
#1, the drop rate is horrible.
Fact: The new Loot Algorithm works like a charm. We have a lot more possibilities in composing NPC Loot from now on. However, the tables are mostly still the values from the old Algorithm, so if you find imbalances in the Loot of some NPCs, report them here.
One of the new features that is now possible is, that the MC5 Commander now always drops exactly one MC5 Part. Never 2 or more, never 0, always one
http://neocron.jafc.de/showpost.php?p=1361833&postcount=12
Just For The Record
http://neocron.jafc.de/showpost.php?p=1361833&postcount=12
Just For The Record
Just for the record. He says it's possible to happen. He does not say it will be happening, So its pure pointless speculation no? unless perhaps you know something more than we do.
slaughteruall
03-05-04, 15:13
Yea, and you expect me to work 10x harder because you got your chips when MC5 had a floored design and was exploitable.
I spent about 3 million getting the parts to make 100 Heavy ultima BP's when they were BPable, because we thought they were going to stay like that and be BP'ed in the same way rare drones are. Turn out next time I log on, i got 100 empty BP's, and no 100k because they made a mistake with that. MC5 chips are no different, you should get them wiped and grind like the rest of us in the way mc5 is supposed to be -not-exploitable/easy
Not everyone exploited MC5 i have 4 chips and 2 parts from a 5th. I never exploited. Nor did anyone that went with me. EVERYONE new that the ultima's being BP'able was a bug. If you did not you should open your eyes more often.
Slaughter
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