View Full Version : A way to stop faction hopping?
well 9/10 faction hoppers ive asked "omg why did you leave and join them..." the answer is "because duh i wanna go places and lvl and with locked gr's i cant"
so here is the sollution: We add extra genreps ((thanks kk for racetrack gr thats cool as)) but we need more added maybe then we will have balanced faction numbers.
or we remove the current gr locking system
what do you guys think?
Clownst0pper
29-04-04, 20:53
Im a major Faction hoper, everyone knows, and basically, half the time its purely to help people who need my fighting skills, or factions which arent highly populated.
I cant say no to more GR's but changing faction isnt easy... 8|
Im a major Faction hoper, everyone knows, and basically, half the time its purely to help people who need my fighting skills, or factions which arent highly populated.
I cant say no to more GR's but changing faction isnt easy... 8|
of course changing faction is easy, most people just mule a ca or tg and 300k aint hard to fund, you can go from -99 symp to +50 in an hour easy by slaying a mule or faction guards.
nah live them :)
i done well with the change.
Heavyporker
29-04-04, 21:11
No... stop faction hopping by making it so that you have to be in one faction at least a month before you can do epic.
FFS Heavy, aren't there enough timesinks in the game already? :mad:
No... stop faction hopping by making it so that you have to be in one faction at least a month before you can do epic.
A time standard is the best system to prevent faction hopping.
Clean, efficient. The only people who're left hurting are faction hoppers.
shodanjr_gr
29-04-04, 21:18
He is right. Think of it. Would a faction give their most prized items (even as a reward) to a person that has only been with them for a few days? I say put a time delay of 3 or 4 RL days between each part of an epic so that it would last a tota of 15 days. Also make Epic missions larger and harder.
I would prefer for all the rewards to be like the City Admin one: only usable while you're in the faction.
I'm black dragon and cant go anywhere.... and NO. I found so many new places to level. You already have Crest, MB, Point Red, Battle Dome, Elfaird, Escador, and soon the racetrack. That's enough to get to just about the entire wastelands. The only reason I want to own OPs is the genreps. That and fighting but you dont have to hack all the layers for that. The current genrep system is a pain sometimes but it forces players to work together and gives a reason to own OPs.
shodanjr_gr
29-04-04, 21:21
I would prefer for all the rewards to be like the City Admin one: only usable while you're in the faction.
Well, that would cause imbalances. Imagine the Speedgun being CM only...
Why? Someone uses it for other than leveling? So the mercs have a little better gat cannon - everyone else can still use a TGC.
I hardly think any one epic reward would prove unbalancing to the entire game, even MOVEON and PP Resist0r.
jerrymaguire
29-04-04, 21:34
The gene reps are fine the way they are, no change please
The gene reps are fine the way they are, no change please
Lol, this coming from a person that zergs with 3 factions to control the map?
your opinion means utter shit if you think that way. Hell, when cartel controlled the map fighting with just one clan, i still uspported public grs so the game is actually FUN, but your opinion shows that you think of yourself and noone else.
Lol I still remember when they first instituted the symp and credit requirements for chaning factions. A lot of us were really pissed that it was made so hard. It was actually changed mainly because of epics I think.
No people, currently changing factions is not easy. Spending a few hours doing missions or killing enemies and then spending credits doesnt classify as easy. Adding some one to your clan no matter what their faction was, now THAT was easy. Its good as is.
If people want to be lame and change faction because they have to walk a whole nother zone, then buhu. The racetrack GR when added will pretty much cover most of the map.
shodanjr_gr
29-04-04, 21:58
Why? Someone uses it for other than leveling? So the mercs have a little better gat cannon - everyone else can still use a TGC.
I hardly think any one epic reward would prove unbalancing to the entire game, even MOVEON and PP Resist0r.
Yes, TGC is the uber monk killer :) and an excellent leveling weapon (along with Male).
Also letting only BT use Moveon and only PP use the resistor would just cause people flocking those factions (since those chips and especially the move-on is essential for some setups).
Also imagine what would happen when the crahn epic reward is released. Every single monk would go crahn just to use that glove.
Get my point?
Shadow Dancer
29-04-04, 22:00
As long as the faction reward system is broke, and the population is dwindling then I don't think anything should be done to stop faction hopping for now.
Yes, TGC is the uber monk killer :) and an excellent leveling weapon (along with Male).
Also letting only BT use Moveon and only PP use the resistor would just cause people flocking those factions (since those chips and especially the move-on is essential for some setups).
Also imagine what would happen when the crahn epic reward is released. Every single monk would go crahn just to use that glove.
Get my point?
TGC is great for killing monks with pathetic setups yes, against a decent setup monk CS is better, does same damage but doesn't stop you dead due to lack of stamina after half a clip.
Moveon and PPR are only considered essential competition-wise, not on the grounds of basic viability. If nobody had moveon/ppr everyone would still be mostly on equal footing. I know I certainly wouldn't go BT/PP just for a few CON points, they make the difference when everyone else is using them yes, but not if hardly anyone does.
The Crahn epic is vastly overrated. 20 psi use and 50 mana? A whole 2 more HLs from a full mana pool? LoM a little bit of PPW? Hardly even noticable, even for a hybrid, and certainly not worth going to Crahn for.
Shadow Dancer
29-04-04, 22:09
Whoa Scikar hold the phone. This has to be the first clueless comment you ever made, :p. 20 psi use and 50 mana is a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE deal. HUUUUUUUUUUUGE.
I feel a difference in op fighting and especially ppu killing with 380 mana as opposed to 320 mana(what I have without ds). 50 mana is a big difference.
The reason I can't hack at level 100 or something, is because if I lom enough PSU and it goes below 172, I lose on ROF big time. 169-172 is a HUGE rof gain(or loss if you're lomming).
20 whopping more PSU means I can hack as good as any spy and still cap HL. 50 mana means an apu won't need a GIMPtroller 3 or a DS just to have a decent mana pool, or CAPPED pool if they do use those gimps.
So no you couldn't be more wrong, the crahn glove is extremley uber.
Yep, what Scikar said.
And Speed Gun's not the wizard killer. TL3 heal is. :)
Shad, you're talking about high-end PvP and OP wars, something that a lot of the population doesn't do very often.
The only lasting way of preventing faction hopping is to make people feel connected to and a part of their faction. Today factions mean diddly. People need to feel they can gain something from being in a faction and they should also feel commitment and responsibility.
So the situation where you "work" for your faction should be changed so you really do work for your faction. Not this recieving money for nothing shit. I say your payment is decided by how difficult your job is and how your faction standings are(which should be alot harder to raise than it is now). Also breaking your faction rules like attacking friendly or neutral factions should make your faction standing go down by a large amount. That means: do as we say or you wont get payed. We are supposed to play a game in a world where ruthless corps controlls our day to day lifes not throw their money out the window to whoever walks by. Changing factions should be a serious matter that not only puts the faction standings of your current faction in rumbles, but also in other factions as disloyalty would normally be frowned up on.
I don`t see the problems with the grs anymore. We now get a gr at the desert racetrack. We got public grs in almost every area of interest. If people cant bother zoning 4 zones to get where they are, to bad. Get a vehicle and stop whining or do something else.
If gr`s was open to everyone I might just as well play cs. All I would see of the world would be a gr and the little part of the zone I had buisiness in.
Shadow Dancer
29-04-04, 22:53
Shad, you're talking about high-end PvP and OP wars, something that a lot of the population doesn't do very often.
Are we both playing the same game? 8|
Unless you mean because the population is dwindling so less opportunities for PvP arise.
Whoa Scikar hold the phone. This has to be the first clueless comment you ever made, :p. 20 psi use and 50 mana is a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE deal. HUUUUUUUUUUUGE.
I feel a difference in op fighting and especially ppu killing with 380 mana as opposed to 320 mana(what I have without ds). 50 mana is a big difference.
The reason I can't hack at level 100 or something, is because if I lom enough PSU and it goes below 172, I lose on ROF big time. 169-172 is a HUGE rof gain(or loss if you're lomming).
20 whopping more PSU means I can hack as good as any spy and still cap HL. 50 mana means an apu won't need a GIMPtroller 3 or a DS just to have a decent mana pool, or CAPPED pool if they do use those gimps.
So no you couldn't be more wrong, the crahn glove is extremley uber.
Is it really enough to switch to Crahn just for that though? Not in my opinion. Maybe 50 mana feels like a lot to you, I don't really notice mana at all on my APU, just pop a psi booster after every antibuff or after a couple of HLs, then another once the initial one has worn off after popping it with half mana or so. I certainly wouldn't switch to Crahn just so I could hack as well as fight.
Shadow Dancer
29-04-04, 23:09
Yes i'd switch to crahn for it, and i'm sure alot of other monks would too.
I forgot one other thing, which is a huge plus for me but maybe not other people. The reason I wear monk pa in the first place is really for the mana boost. I could get around 610% if I really gimped my mana, without pa. With this glove I could afford to not wear PA. That would be so awesome, especially since I think apus "realisticly" don't have a choice on whether or not to wear pa.
Yes the GR system should be changed, No to the idea about faction hoppers.
For the first 8 months of my NC career I played solo. I started off as tsunami because my brother told me that they can pretty much go everywhere in the game (I mean NC/TH/TG/MB). I was only passively playing my tank and slowly levelled him up as and when I had the time.
Once I reached about /40-ish I found out what epic items were good for tanks and so i levelled up my sympathy and joined biotech purely for the epic.
IMO the epics are cool, the story lines are pretty good (apart from some ropey spelling and grammar). As I was a solo player, I proceeded to move through the pro-city factions to do the epics so that i could get the items and see the story lines. I had no problem doing this as I was still levelling solo and had never been involved in a clan.
I don't see why faction hopping should be nerfed in anyway. Especially if we want new players to join the game. People should be free to join a faction that they think suits them. If they're happy then they will stay there, if not then they'll leave - no problem as far as i'm concerned.
Also by preventing faction hopping you'll screw up Saturn's economy even more than it is already. (PP Resistors and Moveons already go for 2-3 million each) This will be worse if a player who chooses protopharma has to stay there and therefore won't give up their epic item.
Just my 2 cents
FFS Heavy, aren't there enough timesinks in the game already? :mad:
I agree and we'd probably end up with everyone locked in the same faction lol weeee 42 ppl all DRE ....... :eek: :wtf:
i think their should be faction items but only for certain factions such as the armor. but i do belive it needs to hav like +30 ath on it. it would make it a good pa for them. and i wont mind seeing CA clans because thay want armor. and honestly i dont think its over powered. but maybe 20 ath will do :)
BT and PP shouldnt be faction owned.
and to be honest it wouldnt chnage much. most peeps that chnage to gr just want to be on the winning side to hav the gr's.
but their should be faction stuff that should only go for that faction. like maybe cheap drugs and housing at our BD venders.
You know faction hopping is too easy when one day half of Saturn is BD, and a day after the servers strongest faction retires, suddenly half the server (including alot of people formerly in that clan...and other enemies of the new "in" faction) are now FA. It's way too easy.
I helped a friend change faction yesterday. 8 minutes it too for him to get the required sympathy, and thats including LE removal time. Way too easy.
You know faction hopping is too easy when one day half of Saturn is BD, and a day after the servers strongest faction retires, suddenly half the server (including alot of people formerly in that clan...and other enemies of the new "in" faction) are now FA. It's way too easy.
I helped a friend change faction yesterday. 8 minutes it too for him to get the required sympathy, and thats including LE removal time. Way too easy.
my point exactly
Yes i'd switch to crahn for it, and i'm sure alot of other monks would too.
I forgot one other thing, which is a huge plus for me but maybe not other people. The reason I wear monk pa in the first place is really for the mana boost. I could get around 610% if I really gimped my mana, without pa. With this glove I could afford to not wear PA. That would be so awesome, especially since I think apus "realisticly" don't have a choice on whether or not to wear pa.
I guess we'd better nerf it then huh? :D
Just like to bring up that Paladins will probably be achievable in DoY. :D
Until KK (Read: MJS) changes their mind about it, faction switching'll be possible...the only thing that can change is their difficulty.
@ SD: If it's that good for APUs, imagine PPUs?
Oh, and my Hybrid self always loved Gaya Glove. Sex. :D
Edit: Oh, and....50 mana and 20 Psi use is rather badass while leveling too. O_o I dun see why people focus on just the endgame value of it.
Edit: Oh, and....50 mana and 20 Psi use is rather badass while leveling too. O_o I dun see why people focus on just the endgame value of it.
Mainly because to the majority of people here the endgame is the game we've been playing for 95% of our time. :)
Mainly because to the majority of people here the endgame is the game we've been playing for 95% of our time. :)
All I'm saying right now concerning that is it just makes the trip TO the endgame a step quicker, for all classes even.
2 cents on how to prevent faction hopping:
Once you complete an epic run you are permitted to buy your faction's epic items and resale them. (at extremely high retail cost, and yes as many as you want, as long as you're a faction member) Talk about a money sink! This will also provide a steady supply of those items to whomever needs them. I think it's appropriate and fair that faction masters be allowed to act as a vendor for their faction's epic items.
This way nobody will have to change factions to acquire their kit. This might even inspire some BT and PP clans to stick around their factions!
I know some people that have been trying to get their 1st move-on chips for over a month since KK dropped all the Johnny-5 bots on Loba.
DJ
PS I've also suggested the idea of adding about 5 more public Genreps and then removing the exterior GR from every single op on the map. OP genreps should always be clan-only. Make the public use the public GRs.
why dont u make a choas caves sort of thing with high lvl mobs near the city gates so everyone can use it.
and put some ca guards around it like they have at crp and tg.
personally i dont have problem with faction hopping, if thats what they wanna do let em, i done it to do all my epics as did lot of people np with that.
if people want to all join the winning side, let em there choice.
instead of punishing people for moving, reward people for staying
yes i though about that, what if we had a cave outside neocron near the crazy dillan which had like 80/80** poison spiders and a spider queen at the end or even a cave full of butchees, higher ranks like 90/90** pack hell of a punch, its simple content to add but it never happens :(
but back on topic the gr system does need to change
i never had a prob with Gr system, when i was Bd before titans and cartel appeared, i had umm 1 op Gr to chose from(and that was only on a day that Red symp were able to keep it)all the rest where enemy, if i wanted to hunt,i just ran, i really dont see the problem, people just want it easy, if people chose a faction so they can get around let them, if there my enemy they will die, at least then they can choice any genrep.
Let the if I dont win I'll join the other side ppl faction hop all they want, damn sissys. As Ezza said it's not that hard to walk or run to where you want to go.. As a noob yes if you die somewhere between a public gr and another public gr and have no gr axx to an op, it can be frustrating maby, but just be a little bit more careful then.
And maby there actually are ppl who play the monk class that dont think that glove would be a really nice thing to have then well then so be it. I want one and I want it bad.. its like saying well why should the lib have 40 rounds instead of the 20 they had before.. just fucking reload and you have 20 more rounds to fire off.
But I dont have a personal problem with the glove being crahn only I am crahn and always will be. But my tg apu might want one but I would probably jump to crahn with it if Ihave to cause its a nice adittion.
edit: ohh. and even if not all the monks would do it crahn would have easy 80% of the monk population and imagine the fucking endless whine about factions and op wars then.
personally i dont have problem with faction hopping, if thats what they wanna do let em, i done it to do all my epics as did lot of people np with that.
if people want to all join the winning side, let em there choice.
instead of punishing people for moving, reward people for stayingNot that YOU said it, but your former clanmates would actually kill other BD runners they SUSPECTED of being BD just to use genreps or be on the winning side. ;)
--
Dru Blood and Zoom Zoom have it right- for me, I faction hop for levelling opportunities mostly.
Nothing rivals El Farid and the Chaos Caves. As Crahn you can easily get to both (DOY bots dont attack crahn), and as TG you can REALLY quickly get to some caves.
Put some high end levelling opportunities near the city, and you may see less faction hopping (and no point red doesnt count- thats only high end Con levelling).
Heavyporker
30-04-04, 16:02
There *are* "caves" near Neocron City.
You people only whine about no place to level because you want your exp spoon-fed to you.
Shadow Dancer
30-04-04, 16:09
instead of punishing people for moving, reward people for staying
ezza>u
Put some high end levelling opportunities near the city, and you may see less faction hopping (and no point red doesnt count- thats only high end Con levelling).
Amen Strych.
There *are* "caves" near Neocron City.
You people only whine about no place to level because you want your exp spoon-fed to you.You can insult people that want to have access to good levelling areas, but the fact remains that right now, people switch factions for access to levelling areas, because not all factions have equal access. My tank started city-based, and spent a few weeks on and off getting up to 57 mil exp in Str. I switched to TG, then a week later capped my Str. Now I am crahn, and having fun only logging him in for PvP and such.
Call it spoon-fed or whatever, but regardless- it should be equal for all factions. If we assume faction hopping is undesireable, then one way to cut down on it would be to have equal levelling opportunities for all factions.
Esp back in early retail- on Pluto, TG simply RULED the freakin server due to two things- exploiting (not the fault of being TG) and the Chaos Caves (benefit of being TG).
Start a CA runner and a TG runner, and see which can cap the quickest if they stay in their native areas. Good luck capping a CA runner on Launchers and Hoverbots.
Also look at it this way- how far from home must a CA runner travel to encounter a 120/120 mob? Or a mob that drops tech parts? Or a 100/100 or higher mob that spawns 70/70 or higher mobs?
You dont have to agree with it, but it should be fair if nothing else.
Are we both playing the same game? 8|
Unless you mean because the population is dwindling so less opportunities for PvP arise.
You play Pluto. For about the last year, the only people on Pluto are those who crave big OP fights and fighting all the time.
There's a large percentage of players on Jupi, Venus, Saturn and Uranus who couldn't give a toss about PvP.
edit: ohh. and even if not all the monks would do it crahn would have easy 80% of the monk population and imagine the fucking endless whine about factions and op wars then.
Wait, you mean that everyone would fight the Psi Monks? That sounds vaguely like a storyline... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Forget My Name
30-04-04, 19:15
I'm black dragon and cant go anywhere.... and NO. I found so many new places to level. You already have Crest, MB, Point Red, Battle Dome, Elfaird, Escador, and soon the racetrack. That's enough to get to just about the entire wastelands. The only reason I want to own OPs is the genreps. That and fighting but you dont have to hack all the layers for that. The current genrep system is a pain sometimes but it forces players to work together and gives a reason to own OPs.
Some people are too lazy to walk 3 zones from a GR. Even with a game with Auto-walk, which does the friggin walking for you.
Shadow Dancer
30-04-04, 19:28
There's a large percentage of players on Saturn who couldn't give a toss about PvP.
:lol: :lol:
Call it spoon-fed or whatever, but regardless- it should be equal for all factions. If we assume faction hopping is undesireable, then one way to cut down on it would be to have equal levelling opportunities for all factions.
You dont have to agree with it, but it should be fair if nothing else.
Exactly. And this is part of another problem. Factions mean nothing IMO. Factions are really just who you can fight, that's basically it. The faction rewards are unbalanced, meaning some factions have garbage rewards(anti-city, for like the last year :rolleyes: ) and some factions have rewards that really only suit 1 or 2 types of players.
Add to that the leveling issue as you said. Stopping faction hopping isn't just about making it tougher to hop factions. You also have to look at what causes it.
jerrymaguire
30-04-04, 19:48
Lol, this coming from a person that zergs with 3 factions to control the map?
your opinion means utter shit if you think that way. Hell, when cartel controlled the map fighting with just one clan, i still uspported public grs so the game is actually FUN, but your opinion shows that you think of yourself and noone else.
mmm, I think you may have me confused with someone else, I am a fallen angel, and I don't zerg with anyone.
If you are refering to FA taking the map after Cartel left, I have hardly been at an op take recently. I have made a appearance a few times, but there has never been anyone one around.
3 factions? who are you talking about? more details please?
slaughteruall
30-04-04, 19:54
You can insult people that want to have access to good levelling areas, but the fact remains that right now, people switch factions for access to levelling areas, because not all factions have equal access. My tank started city-based, and spent a few weeks on and off getting up to 57 mil exp in Str. I switched to TG, then a week later capped my Str. Now I am crahn, and having fun only logging him in for PvP and such.
Call it spoon-fed or whatever, but regardless- it should be equal for all factions. If we assume faction hopping is undesireable, then one way to cut down on it would be to have equal levelling opportunities for all factions.
Esp back in early retail- on Pluto, TG simply RULED the freakin server due to two things- exploiting (not the fault of being TG) and the Chaos Caves (benefit of being TG).
Start a CA runner and a TG runner, and see which can cap the quickest if they stay in their native areas. Good luck capping a CA runner on Launchers and Hoverbots.
Also look at it this way- how far from home must a CA runner travel to encounter a 120/120 mob? Or a mob that drops tech parts? Or a 100/100 or higher mob that spawns 70/70 or higher mobs?
You dont have to agree with it, but it should be fair if nothing else.
I so agree with what you are saying. How can TG be for experienced players (non noobs not ppl who want to OP fight) when they can cap long before having to strole more then 2 zones from there APT's. Hopefully we will see some change of this when DOY comes out. Maybe a slight move of some of the lvl areas. Yes there are good lvling areas PRO-city can get to. But are any guarded by faction guards or even DOY bots? Why not suround gravis and 3 zones each way with CA guards? Hell there is not even CA guards outside of NC. TG have gaurds in the zones around the canyon. TH has a shit load of turrets (which BTW need to be nerfed or at least taken away from the sync points instant death trap) yes the ones outside of TH are mainly there to piss me off.
No... stop faction hopping by making it so that you have to be in one faction at least a month before you can do epic.
And while your at it please make all faction items usable by that faction only, like CAPA. :mad:
tomparadox
30-04-04, 23:00
And while your at it please make all faction items usable by that faction only, like CAPA.
um? no?
see. if you do that, the 3 bigest factions will be bioteck/proto/crahn when DOY comes out unless theres a DOY faction that has a beter epic.
and also it would be completly gay, i meen wtf? whos going to stop you from useing it other than the restriction, i meen if you think of it RP wise i think, how would proto stop you from useing the chip? or MC how would they stop you from useing the speed gat?
Don't forget Fallen Angels! Tradeskill chip <3
Im a major Faction hoper, everyone knows, and basically, half the time its purely to help people who need my fighting skills, or factions which arent highly populated.
I cant say no to more GR's but changing faction isnt easy... 8|
skills?????? :p
its boring enough to swich factions as it is and its not like it rerally makes the game any worse
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