View Full Version : Exotic PSI Use
When I just took a look in the Neocron Manual I saw something called Exotic PSI Use.
Does anybody know what it is and why it has been removed???
Or does it still need to be added ???
It was there in beta + retail but it was removed due to the hybrid nerf
if i remember correctly
When I just took a look in the Neocron Manual I saw something called Exotic PSI Use.
Does anybody know what it is and why it has been removed???
Or does it still need to be added ???
It was taken out when the PSI system was revamped.
:(
it was taken out in october 2002 :)
and as ive been screaming for since then PUT THE FUCKER BACK IN
why?
because it allows a definitive way to balance the monk class and make pures and hybrids all valid and non overpowered.
but hier your all stupid and my screams fall on deaf ears
Maybe you'd like to explain why, just once?
If memory serves, it was needed for rez and DB only, and it was perfectly possible to go PPU and APU, with most spells having no MST req. How would EPU make monks balanced?
epu removed... mst released
ppu spells over tl 48 released... there we go :wtf:
epu was like apu or ppu.... u were able to use ressurect damageboost poison spells....ya... well exotic stuff ;)
Exotic was only used on the very high level spells, and was replaced with MST, which was stuck on all spells. Previous monks were not APU or PPU, they were both, then along came the 1st of several thousand nerf hammers, people that managed to adapt to these changes, were then called overpowered, however, the people who called them overpowered probably never saw an exotic PSI monk, who could stack shelters and deflectors for godlike PSIdom
I thought exotic psi use was changed to mental steadiness.....
The whole PSI thing should be revamped.
Exotic PSI power should be added back in.
There should be 3 paths for monks to choose.
APU
would require apu and mst to use their spells, they have little defence but the best offence
PPU
would require ppu and mst to use their spells, they have best defence but little offence
EPU
would require EPU and mst to use their spells, they have the a combination of both APU and PPU.
spells should be altered or added to conform to pure APU, pure PPU, pure EPU strains.
kind of like the black mage, white mage and the red mage.
Exotic was only used on the very high level spells, and was replaced with MST, which was stuck on all spells. Previous monks were not APU or PPU, they were both, then along came the 1st of several thousand nerf hammers, people that managed to adapt to these changes, were then called overpowered, however, the people who called them overpowered probably never saw an exotic PSI monk, who could stack shelters and deflectors for godlike PSIdom
im sorry... epu monks were never as strong as the mst hybrids were... holy shelter and holy lightning was uber.... epu hybrids were way more balanced as mst hybrids....
Naimex, no, EPU was never like MST. No spell required APU & EPU at the same time. MST is like tech combat... EPU was a main skill.
The whole PSI thing should be revamped.
Exotic PSI power should be added back in.
There should be 3 paths for monks to choose.
APU
would require apu and mst to use their spells, they have little defence but the best offence
PPU
would require ppu and mst to use their spells, they have best defence but little offence
EPU
would require EPU and mst to use their spells, they have the a combination of both APU and PPU.
spells should be altered or added to conform to pure APU, pure PPU, pure EPU strains.
kind of like the black mage, white mage and the red mage.Have you specced a monk lately? Its already hard enough allocating your points when in Psi, you have three skills you MUST spec. Only way to add EPU back is to remove MST. Or just drastically lower the spell reqs.
im sorry... epu monks were never as strong as the mst hybrids were... holy shelter and holy lightning was uber.... epu hybrids were way more balanced as mst hybrids....
mst hybrids couldnt stack shelter, blessed shelter, holy shelter, deflector, blessed deflector, holy deflector, heal sanctum, blessed heal sanctum, holy heal sanctum.. and then cast every single rare APU spell and PPU spell, capped.
The high level stuff, both apu and ppu required exotic, and I remember when Rez came out, Butters (Uman) tested it on me, a few GR's later we figured out how it worked. He went on to win the first NC Neofrag tourny.
i think ure mixing up something... holy stuff didnt excist.... there was a tl 15 shelter and a tl 35 group shelter + a tl 48 shelter sanctum... and rare spells didnt excist to that time either :rolleyes:
rare's have existed since Beta 4, even the ones with the little twirlies. flame queen avalance launcher = a rare, storm laser = a rare. Cant remember which patch put in rare PSI stuff, but it would have been around the same time as the rest of the rare stuff.
rares dont have to have a twirly to be rare ya know :rolleyes:
/edit - rare parts appeared in Beta patch 156, OCT 2002.
/edit - rare parts appeared in Beta patch 156, OCT 2002.
ya and in october 02 was epu removed ;)
Rares didnt excist in the epu period, pherhaps queen avalance but thats it already ;)
ya and in october 02 was epu removed ;)
Rares didnt excist in the epu period, pherhaps queen avalance but thats it already ;)
Actually, was November 2002, with Retail Patch 160, which forced my hybrid APU/PPU PE to go pure PPU PE. Still looking for APU/PPU rares, no mention of them individually yet
/edit - 163 is the first to state specific to PSI spells
3 new PSI modules (rare).
/edit 2 - also remember, German retail was *not* the end of Beta, they ran concurrently.
All this talk about monks got me all misty *remembers hes hybrid of old* :(
eh i miss me uber me>5you hybrid ........
Shadow Dancer
27-04-04, 19:16
I'd hate to see EPU come back. KK can't even balance ppu yet, let alone ANOTHER additional form of Psi. :eek:
Original monk
27-04-04, 20:15
Butters, He went on to win the first NC Neofrag tourny.
butters, a blood titan now..
i remember that neofrag tournament realy good :)
and yes hybrids where COOWL back then :P
Maybe you'd like to explain why, just once?
If memory serves, it was needed for rez and DB only, and it was perfectly possible to go PPU and APU, with most spells having no MST req. How would EPU make monks balanced?
sorry just got home i posted that just before i left work.
so heres the explaination for the 11000th time and YES i have explained this before.
no mst on spells mst is just a point sink
epu is like ppu or apu
bearing in mind you drop the hybrid penatly for this to work
all combat buffs and stuff like db res etc are epu spells
all apu stuff is apu
ppu is shelt deflect sc and parashock
put spell reqs to how they used to be but the relavent ppu req is now an epu req
therefore you could go pure and be invinciable or could go hybrid and then you have to pick between the 3 which skills you want bearing in mind if you drank from all 3 pools you'd be a gimp and could never master any skill even being only a 2 pool hybrid.
simple really just needs carefull spell reqs balance
sorry just got home i posted that just before i left work.
so heres the explaination for the 11000th time and YES i have explained this before.
no mst on spells mst is just a point sink
epu is like ppu or apu
bearing in mind you drop the hybrid penatly for this to work
all combat buffs and stuff like db res etc are epu spells
all apu stuff is apu
ppu is shelt deflect sc and parashock
put spell reqs to how they used to be but the relavent ppu req is now an epu req
therefore you could go pure and be invinciable or could go hybrid and then you have to pick between the 3 which skills you want bearing in mind if you drank from all 3 pools you'd be a gimp and could never master any skill even being only a 2 pool hybrid.
simple really just needs carefull spell reqs balance
And exactly how much better is it than the current system? Under that idea, what's to stop a hybrid using all of the points gained from no MST to just get PPU and APU? No MST point sink so he can manage energy beam with blessed shelter and blessed heal, at the cost of what, a resist buff and a spy buff? You're gonna say that's balanced? To balance it out, reqs would have to go up even higher than what they are now. It's no simpler than the current system, except that now you have Tanks who can barely heal themselves because they got EPU to cast BR1 and h-c1, PEs who can't cast heat buff any more because they got enough PPU for blessed deflector and can't get enough EPU for the heat buff as a result. Doesn't sound simple to me at all.
Personally, I think instead of attacking Hinch's idea, it would be best to alter it so that it would be approvable to everyone.
For example, I believe parashock should be EPU instead of PPU, if it absolutely has to exist.
Also, implement a new form of Resist PSI to help counter the lack of MST that is supposedly there to halt people from being both APU/PPU currently.
Spell reqs from the EPU days are here (http://www.neocron.at/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=31).
As you can see :
1) it wasn't highly used
2) Rare weapons existed but not rare spells
3) Holy spells did exist
They don't list the CQFA but I'm pretty sure it was in then (maybe an oversight?). Unfortunately waybackmachine have lost the relevant page from Rustot even though they say they have it :(.
Hope that clarifies some confused memories on here ;).
health buffs br and heat etc would all be ppu its combat buffs going in epu
and whats to stop a hybrid going pure ppu/apu
nothing really appart from they just wouldnt be effective really having only defences and attack no buffs as such.
also the reqs would be at a suitable lvl that they couldnt have holy def lvl3 buffs and say FA/HL
think before posting please sickar try removing your blinkers then you can see the bigger picture rather than your one train of thought
Shadow Dancer
28-04-04, 10:03
health buffs br and heat etc would all be ppu its combat buffs going in epu
and whats to stop a hybrid going pure ppu/apu
nothing really appart from they just wouldnt be effective really having only defences and attack no buffs as such.
also the reqs would be at a suitable lvl that they couldnt have holy def lvl3 buffs and say FA/HL
think before posting please sickar try removing your blinkers then you can see the bigger picture rather than your one train of thought
Even without buffs, a blessed heal/shelter hyb would still be deadly. Too deadly. As long as they can cast bless heal during combat, the overpoweredness will remain. That's the key factor, bless or holy heal during combat.
Ken, KK can't balance monks right now atm with only 2 real skills. You think implementing EPU and PSI resist will make that easier?
lol
[ edited ]
blessed spells do not over power a hybrid hell a ppu capping blessed spells do not over power it it'll drop to a single char of any class and all he's doing is keeping him self alive
now take into account that the said hybrid only has blessed spells, does not cap them, is trying to attack at the same time, and has a smaller mana pool
[ edited ] hybrids you'd see that balancing them would be quite easy with epu as they wouldnt have the stuff available to them which does make them overpowered in combat ie: DB and Parashock
[ edited ]
health buffs br and heat etc would all be ppu its combat buffs going in epu
and whats to stop a hybrid going pure ppu/apu
nothing really appart from they just wouldnt be effective really having only defences and attack no buffs as such.
also the reqs would be at a suitable lvl that they couldnt have holy def lvl3 buffs and say FA/HL
think before posting please sickar try removing your blinkers then you can see the bigger picture rather than your one train of thought
Yeah, I'm sure you'll really miss that melee booster in your setup. If you weren't trying to build a smokescreen you'd be able to see that.
At the end of the day, it just boils down to exactly what we have now - high reqs so you can't use enough PPU to make yourself invulnerabe 1v and still have decent offense. If you want as much offense as a PE, i.e. energy beam, you have to have PE defence, i.e. TL25 shelter. If you want blessed defence which can outheal pretty much anything 1v1, it's clearly unbalanced to combine that with anything above a mediocre holy energy halo.
Now I'll ask again, exactly how is your idea difference? We'd still be tweaking reqs. If anything the situation would in fact be much worse, as a PPU could go for shelter/def/heal with only level 2 combat buffs. That way they could cap all of their spells and also fully cap their mana pool. An APU would suddenly find himself with no need for all of that MST, stick it into PPU and suddenly every APU now still caps his HL and FA and HAB, but he has PE defence as well, all without a kami. The current kami hybrids would have a field day.
It is no simpler at all, it just means a whole load more work trying to balance everything again. Pure monks certainly do not need a boost, and that is exactly what they would get.
[ edited for consistancy ]Sorry to be OT but that just cracked me up. :lol:
OK, as you were.
/edit - no offence Hinch. I'd find it funny whoever said it.
Shadow Dancer
28-04-04, 10:20
[ edited ]
blessed spells do not over power a hybrid hell a ppu capping blessed spells do not over power it it'll drop to a single char of any class and all he's doing is keeping him self alive
The old hybrids were overpowered because of holy shelter and holy heal. But they also were turrets. When apus were made viable, real full runcasting was implemented. Now it's possible for a hybrid to runcast with enough damage percent on an apu spell. So even if he just uses bless buffs, since he can run around at full speed and dodge, he'll still be overpowered.
A PE has kickass defense. A hybrid with BLESS shelter will have even better defense. All you need is like 300% on a shelter. Now add to that bless heal. Even a 300% bless heal is like 12 a tick or something. Bless shelter+bless heal+super speed = overpowered.
Hell remember that time you told me to start a char on jupiter to watch your blessed hybrid. You said you use bless buffs and still "owned". You even demonstrated it to me by standing still and having a tank unload on you while you healed.
now take into account that the said hybrid only has blessed spells, does not cap them, is trying to attack at the same time, and has a smaller mana pool
He doesn't need to cap them. And they don't cost that much mana. He doesn't need a huge pool. And so what if he needs to attack at the same time. With some practise, a person can spell switch just fine.
[ edited ]about hybrids you'd see that balancing them would be quite easy with epu as they wouldnt have the stuff available to them which does make them overpowered in combat ie: DB and Parashock
DB and parashock? O_O
What makes them truly overpowered is their healing capability.
[ edited ]
If you are going to flame anyone who disagrees with you, then why post in the first place? Obviously you don't want a discussion. You might as well write your hybrid theory in notepad then read it back to yourself and say "i agree".
Now I'll ask again, exactly how is your idea difference? We'd still be tweaking reqs. If anything the situation would in fact be much worse, as a PPU could go for shelter/def/heal with only level 2 combat buffs. That way they could cap all of their spells and also fully cap their mana pool. An APU would suddenly find himself with no need for all of that MST, stick it into PPU and suddenly every APU now still caps his HL and FA and HAB, but he has PE defence as well, all without a kami. The current kami hybrids would have a field day.
It is no simpler at all, it just means a whole load more work trying to balance everything again. Pure monks certainly do not need a boost, and that is exactly what they would get.
Look at that, I totally forgot about that. You're right. With no mst they could easily spare points to get shelter/def/heal. PE style defense with apu offense. Bad idea.
[ edited ]
btw the blessed hybrid i had at the time was actually a holy hybrid i just used blessed spells because i capped them as such they were more effective than the holy stuff. :rolleyes:
but never mind you clearly dont see the real balance issue
[ edited ]
btw the blessed hybrid i had at the time was actually a holy hybrid i just used blessed spells because i capped them as such they were more effective than the holy stuff. :rolleyes:
but never mind you clearly dont see the real balance issue
Or perhaps you just realised that it wasn't going to work? You want your hybrid boosted through this or another idea, then you have to explain what the real balance issue is. Playing the 'it would fix all the problems in the world but you're too stupid enough to understand' card is just like being in a playground saying 'I know a secret but I'm not telling you'. Not a very good way to get your EPU hybrid back, is it?
EDIT: Btw I look forward to reading the sad flames on your boards after this. I'm sure you'll feel much better after all your friends agree on how much an asshole I am.
Shadow Dancer
28-04-04, 10:41
[ edited ]
Right. I've felt this way about hybrids since..........gee I dunno..........forever?
btw the blessed hybrid i had at the time was actually a holy hybrid i just used blessed spells because i capped them as such they were more effective than the holy stuff. :rolleyes:
Like I said a capped bless shelter and a 300% bless shelter isn't that different. I admit a bless heal that is capped is better than a 300% bless heal, but remember you were standing completely still. Now imagine running at full speed.
There ya go. What more proof do you need?
but never mind you clearly dont see the real balance issue
Do you honestly and sincerely believe a moderate bless heal on a bless sheltered target WON'T unbalance things?
Anyways, I think we need to choose more realistic solutions. I really don't think KK will add another PSI skill-set anytime soon.
strange im a pistol pe a droner and a hc tank now :rolleyes: i wont be going back to hybrid
but surely you can see that for a hybrid to be viable in groups ie not for solo only that they would have to skill epu which in turn would leave them not enough points for any high lvl offense or defence spell
if they wanna go pure solo and have no support abilities then sure pure ppu/apu split is fine and with the fixed spell reqs they wouldnt have access to high lvl spells on both sides and they wouldnt have capped mana pool they would be similar to current hybrids perhaps a slight bit more powerfull but not alot and the 5% minus would still apply.
if they wanted to be truly usefull ie: ppu with small attack then they could skill all 3
or you could have your pure ppu who would be ppu/epu only
or you could have an apu with pe defences so he is still capable of capping his spells.
simple really bearing in mind that monk armour is no where near as effective as a pe's and they certainly dont have teh cons for resists.
wheras a pe gets better armour resists and shelter etc.
simple really you ready to take your blinkers off yet and look at the wider picture? or you still dead set on removing all monks from the game?
strange im a pistol pe a droner and a hc tank now :rolleyes: i wont be going back to hybrid
but surely you can see that for a hybrid to be viable in groups ie not for solo only that they would have to skill epu which in turn would leave them not enough points for any high lvl offense or defence spell
if they wanna go pure solo and have no support abilities then sure pure ppu/apu split is fine and with the fixed spell reqs they wouldnt have access to high lvl spells on both sides and they wouldnt have capped mana pool they would be similar to current hybrids perhaps a slight bit more powerfull but not alot and the 5% minus would still apply.
if they wanted to be truly usefull ie: ppu with small attack then they could skill all 3
or you could have your pure ppu who would be ppu/epu only
or you could have an apu with pe defences so he is still capable of capping his spells.
simple really bearing in mind that monk armour is no where near as effective as a pe's and they certainly dont have teh cons for resists.
wheras a pe gets better armour resists and shelter etc.
simple really you ready to take your blinkers off yet and look at the wider picture? or you still dead set on removing all monks from the game?
PEs have better armor? Some pistol PE you are. Load up the skillmanager, put monk armor on your PE, a little CON tweaking, and presto, 10% increase in resists. PEs are balanced with their shelter, because they have pistols for offense. If monks can easily get exactly the same defence with HL, who is going to play a PE?
There's nothing stopping a pure APU/PPU hybrid being viable in groups. It's the shelt/def/heal from a PPU which makes him useful, the buffs are just a nice bonus. 7/min more RoF on CS, 20 more HP and 1% extra resist in fire/energy is nothing compared to 40% absorb of incoming damage after armor and healing at 20HP/tick and more. Do PPUs run around OP wars giving out heat buffs and combat buffs to people? No, once the fight is running they're giving out S/D and heals. Whats to stop a team having a couple of PPUs in and a couple of hybrids? PPUs give out buffs before the fight, hybrids help them heal/S/D during while still attacking as well. Perfectly viable.
lol
your a comic genious im crying here
go test a blessed heal on cap in a combat situation get your friendly ppu to use no buffs just a capped blessed heal and shelt and def.
your a tank attack him :) see how fast he dies even with a heavy belt on
LOLOLOLOLOL
to quote rebutt
lollerskates
Shadow Dancer
28-04-04, 10:58
but surely you can see that for a hybrid to be viable in groups ie not for solo only that they would have to skill epu which in turn would leave them not enough points for any high lvl offense or defence spell
It depends on what you mean by high level offense or defense. Do you consider bless spells to be high level defense? Or medium?
And why does a hybrid HAVE to skill epu to be viable in groups?
if they wanna go pure solo and have no support abilities then sure pure ppu/apu split is fine and with the fixed spell reqs they wouldnt have access to high lvl spells on both sides and they wouldnt have capped mana pool they would be similar to current hybrids perhaps a slight bit more powerfull but not alot and the 5% minus would still apply.
Yes but with all that mst that is no longer needed, means they can spend all those juicy points into ppu/apu or PPW(which would be better).
simple really bearing in mind that monk armour is no where near as effective as a pe's and they certainly dont have teh cons for resists.
wheras a pe gets better armour resists and shelter etc.
eh? Monk armour is the best in the game. Far better than PE armor. As for con, well armor takes care of alot of that. But you're right, they still are lacking in con by alot. However, you seriously underestimate the power of shelter. It can reduce alot of damage. Keep in mind with these changes, PEs might get screwed over if they are forced to skill epu in addition to ppu just to get their resist/combat buffs.
Like I said, the bless heal is what will overpower the "medium" hybrids.
or you could have an apu with pe defences so he is still capable of capping his spells.
I'm sure the entire forum will agree with me when they say this would overpower apus. APUs with PE defences? 8| The only thing that balances them right now is their crappy defense. If they could heal and shelter like a PE, they would be dominating 1v1s left and right.
simple really you ready to take your blinkers off yet and look at the wider picture? or you still dead set on removing all monks from the game?
:confused:
I don't want monks gone. I want hybrids to be more viable then they are now(they are broken atm IMO), and I want ppus to be balance since they are overpowered atm IMO.
lol
your a comic genious im crying here
go test a blessed heal on cap in a combat situation get your friendly ppu to use no buffs just a capped blessed heal and shelt and def.
your a tank attack him :) see how fast he dies even with a heavy belt on
LOLOLOLOLOL
to quote rebutt
lollerskates
He won't die fast. A pe doesn't die fast to a tank. I doubt a ppu with bless buffs and heals will die fast. As a matter of fact if he's running at full speed, he'll take a long time to kill.
If i see one more flame of spam post in this thread its closed this is your warnings
i consider non capped blessed to be lower to middle buffs
and capped buffs to be middle of teh road with lower holy to be middle also as they effectively give the same protection.
monk armour is far from the best in the game sure its fine for energy resist but everything else? until you get a heavy belt its not much cop tbh.
according to those broke skill managers
my pe using inq2 and holy shelter pants with gama bones lets through 5-6% pvp damage
my ppu setup which although could possiably be better is still reasnoable lets through 3%
according to the skill manager if i drop to blessed def instead of holy the % jumps to 10.7% :wtf:
lol
your a comic genious im crying here
go test a blessed heal on cap in a combat situation get your friendly ppu to use no buffs just a capped blessed heal and shelt and def.
your a tank attack him :) see how fast he dies even with a heavy belt on
LOLOLOLOLOL
to quote rebutt
lollerskates
I guess the PPUs you know aren't very good then? :confused:
My hybrid now, uses blessed shelter, nowhere near cap, and blessed heal, nowhere near cap. The spells are constructed but neither have slots. And with just a little bit of dodging I can outheal CS. Give me your EPU idea, and I'll have a hybrid with a runcasted holy energy halo and even more defence than he already has. Thanks, but I prefer to win my fights through skill instead of playing an overpowered class.
EDIT: @ Above: Conveniently forget that Holy Deflector = Blessed Shelter eh? Every man and his dog knows Blessed Deflector is TL35. If you can use Blessed Shelter you can use Holy Deflector. But nice try anyway.
your fighting some seriously shit tanks then if you can come close to out healing it and i mean seriously shit
[ edited ]
Shadow Dancer
28-04-04, 11:09
monk armour is far from the best in the game sure its fine for energy resist but everything else? until you get a heavy belt its not much cop tbh.
When I say monk armor I also include the belts.
With let's say heavy fire belt, and the rest holy spirit. You get like 70 piercing, 70 force, 109 fire, 25 x-ray, and like 37473974327 energy.
I don't think any other armor set can compete with that.
You could just load up a skill manager, and compare a monk with this armor setup and NOTHING in con to a PE with your armor setup and NOTHING in con. Then see who takes more damage.
Go right ahead. The thought of killing you with a hybrid makes me feel all fuzzy inside. OOoohhh the irony.
if im allowed drugs for the pe then the monk takes more damage
Shadow Dancer
28-04-04, 11:14
if im allowed drugs for the pe then the monk takes more damage
Yea you're allowed drugs. Maybe you could post pics comparing the 2 setups. I'd like to see the results.
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