View Full Version : The Tank Paradox
I have a character slot that I'm not sure what to do with, and was thinking of a melee tank. So, I sat down to mess with the skillmanager a bit, just out of curiousity.
An H-C tank will spend every single point in H-C, and it's still not enough to fully cap a CS. No spare points for resist force or transport (for all that insanely heavy vehicle ammo).
A melee tank, literally, has too many points to spend. You can overcap resist force, get 200 M-C with implants, and still have around 150 - 200 points to split between transport and H-C.
Those H-C tanks need some help. H-C eyes would be good. Change bezerks or melee exp chips into H-C chips. Or some new H-C implants that aren't rare or an epic reward. Something. Anything. That situation seems rather silly.
actually we dont.
HC tanks are balanced as it is now.
Just need to have the current aim changed to have the value of 267 instead of 235.
not changed in more aim or more hits, just have the guns value set to be 267 at max HC.
(Combat Ranking purpose)
If you give us more, we will be overpowered...
If you take ANYTHING away from us, we will be gimped...
A HC tank with good aim, can kill anything.
A HC tank with medium aim, can kill some people.
A HC tank with bad aim, canīt kill anyone.
Peeps just need to fight and fight and fight and fight, untill they learn to aim with a heavy tank.
And besides Tank armor gives so much resist force and piercing from armor, thereīs no need to skill any in resist force.
And STR is high enough to be able to carry at least 30 clips for each gun. (2 guns)
//
Where would you rather be when the war breaks out ?
Up close, hand to hand combat with the others, getting both friendly and enemy fire on you....
or
Down behind, being one of the people shooting against the enemy....
;)
A HC tank with good aim, can kill anything.
I swear all the tanks suck. There are so many tanks that cant aim. I was playing on a friends near cap tank and the CS was extremely easy to aim. I use a lib about 70% of the time (30% earp) and I must say tanks have it good. It's not hard to aim a CS and I'm suprised there aren't more good tanks out there. CS still does a lot of damage and IMO they're balanced. Even if force owns them...
More on topic. PEs have the same problem. Cap your force and DG then dump it all in transport. You'll be able to carry everything and a little more... but what's wrong with that? I guess you could put your extra points in heavy combat and get crappy stats on HC guns. Maybe you could snipe with a tangent laser cannon or something?
CS is easy to aim with yes.. when you know how to.
I had a nice aim before..
then I started playing my PE more than my tank.
Now I hit most shots..
So I believe anyone that can play a PE can EASILY play a tank.
(You must be fighting the wrong tanks then :p most tanks I fight never miss)
actually we dont.
HC tanks are balanced as it is now.
Just need to have the current aim changed to have the value of 267 instead of 235.
not changed in more aim or more hits, just have the guns value set to be 267 at max HC.
(Combat Ranking purpose)
WOOT!!!
Someone else gets it :D
**bows to Naimex**
So HC Tanks are balanced , from the thread, does that mean Melee is also balanced ....
Got a friend who was able to cap every weapon before he could use it.....except DG which he capped a few days after he started to use it. I could never understand that, he got 200 in melee at level 35 or something stupid. A capped HC can't come close to that without major sacrafice else where
So HC Tanks are balanced , from the thread, does that mean Melee is also balanced ....
Got a friend who was able to cap every weapon before he could use it.....except DG which he capped a few days after he started to use it. I could never understand that, he got 200 in melee at level 35 or something stupid. A capped HC can't come close to that without major sacrafice else where
Melee TLs are way too low. They are going to be increased in the next patch (or the one after that).
As Jernau says, the melee weapons have been/are being looked into by lupus, and will be changed in the next patch.
Melee is b0rked atm.
and afaiu Lupus is open to suggestive changes to the melee weapons, provided you have a seriously good pointe.
melee is fine
here is a quote from a melee tank.
melee tanks are ALOT more fucking deadly then a HC tank, Ive fucking proved that on my fucking own, I'd prove it right now if my melee tank had any fucking equipment... Most melee tanks are shite, granted, but theres a couple of us that know how to use it, what its limitations and strengths are, it does do good damage, considering the speed we move at and the monk style no reticule reaction aiming its viable, did the screenshot of 27 fucking dead solo'd FA that i mowed down in TH2 not prove that or the numerous other times ive killed multiple people ?
MELEE IS FINE YOU TWUNTS !
bah.... whres my fuckin prozac
point taken, even though I havenīt met a melee user I couldnīt kill yet ^^
(except that PPU with junk knife :eek: )
I swear all the tanks suck. There are so many tanks that cant aim. I was playing on a friends near cap tank and the CS was extremely easy to aim. I use a lib about 70% of the time (30% earp) and I must say tanks have it good. It's not hard to aim a CS and I'm suprised there aren't more good tanks out there. CS still does a lot of damage and IMO they're balanced. Even if force owns them...
More on topic. PEs have the same problem. Cap your force and DG then dump it all in transport. You'll be able to carry everything and a little more... but what's wrong with that? I guess you could put your extra points in heavy combat and get crappy stats on HC guns. Maybe you could snipe with a tangent laser cannon or something? tanks have gotten so use to having a ppu on there ass and not needing to put effort into aim that they all suck now
the added bonus of melee is panick, its alot harder to aim at a tank movin faster than you can aim, running around youo in circles, ive seen people just panick and not pull out what they should, or move where they should, sure ive seen it in other scenarios, but melee is where ive seen it the most...
EDIT:
tanks have gotten so use to having a ppu on there ass and not needing to put effort into aim that they all suck now
yup, i can only name a few tanks on Saturn that are truly good and dont need any backup...
Me not got a PPu ... As my clan is small, and I R the ppu and all ... Yet I am stilling learning and fine tuning skills ...
Jesterthegreat
26-04-04, 13:40
I have a character slot that I'm not sure what to do with, and was thinking of a melee tank. So, I sat down to mess with the skillmanager a bit, just out of curiousity.
An H-C tank will spend every single point in H-C, and it's still not enough to fully cap a CS. No spare points for resist force or transport (for all that insanely heavy vehicle ammo).
A melee tank, literally, has too many points to spend. You can overcap resist force, get 200 M-C with implants, and still have around 150 - 200 points to split between transport and H-C.
Those H-C tanks need some help. H-C eyes would be good. Change bezerks or melee exp chips into H-C chips. Or some new H-C implants that aren't rare or an epic reward. Something. Anything. That situation seems rather silly.
hell my PE will have more melee than your tank :p
HC tanks are fine... their highest TL direct damage weapon is only 105 so they cap dmg. no matter what some people will tell you, with a decent setup a CS aims fast, and most well setup people nearly cap RoF too.
ok, so compared to a (for example) ROLH spy (almost the same TL, same level main stat) tanks seem worse off... but then, watch a decent ROLH spy vs a decent tank, it will be even / tank winning.
i think tanks are fine, we could just do with being able to get ranks that other classes can get.
i want a 76/68 *** tank god damnit :mad:
I couldn't care less about my rank. I wish I could get some better resist force without gimping RoF on my CS though. Tank armor does not give enough, maybe if you have an average setup it would seem enough, but with the best of setups it becomes apparent that more resist force is needed.
I have made my points in the other though, and I see no point in reiterating them, when clearly they have had little effect despite the weak arguments against them.
tbh although i dont like the having to put everything into HC, neither do i see use as being that weak in force/peirce, its rare i get killed from a earp/PE/speed gat/libby, its weapons like ROLH that do me in and my resists are good.
i want the 3 stars cos it looks good, and nice reward to investing all that time in my tank, plus it allows me to level with PPus or high level riflers or apus whatever
Clownst0pper
26-04-04, 15:49
Koro is a melee tank, probably one of the few good ones on saturn. I think the only tank who gives me a challenge is Eledhgrunt, as hes a fucker for taking my legs out, but were pretty even.
I just h8 the fact that dispite my DG being what, tl 103 and fully capped, I have to hit someone 20 times for them to die.
Id like to see anyone survive 10 bursts from a CS straight on without Dying.
Just kinda pisses me off, we dont have it easy, with all the stamina boosters, parashock, legs broken, having to actually get in there and take hits while getting there.
Id like to know I actually hurt buffed players.
A H-C Tank being PPU'd Vs a Melee tank being PPU'd the HC will always win, just because melee does ZERO and H-C dispite a heal still can rip someone up.
Thats the difference,and as a heavy pvper, its a big one :(
Original monk
26-04-04, 15:51
my tank had a natural 3 stars for a long while ... i dont see why they removed that ability ...
btw i been whining for 3 stars on tanks since the moment they changed it to 2 ... dont think they will ever fix it :) i tought the same about 1,5 years ago ya see :)
Koro is a melee tank, probably one of the few good ones on saturn. I think the only tank who gives me a challenge is Eledhgrunt, as hes a fucker for taking my legs out, but were pretty even.
I just h8 the fact that dispite my DG being what, tl 103 and fully capped, I have to hit someone 20 times for them to die.
Id like to see anyone survive 10 bursts from a CS straight on without Dying.
Just kinda pisses me off, we dont have it easy, with all the stamina boosters, parashock, legs broken, having to actually get in there and take hits while getting there.
Id like to know I actually hurt buffed players.
A H-C Tank being PPU'd Vs a Melee tank being PPU'd the HC will always win, just because melee does ZERO and H-C dispite a heal still can rip someone up.
Thats the difference,and as a heavy pvper, its a big one :(
well that 20 hits is like 5 blasts from the CS(4 bursts each shot) maybe its just me i dont see a problem with that.
if they made melee do uber damage, then every tank would be using it.
i was alway in melees corner, me and marx would be one of the few people asking for melee boosts in the past, now(apartfrom the stupid decay rate on the weapons)i think melee is about balanced
my tank had a natural 3 stars for a long while ... i dont see why they removed that ability ...
btw i been whining for 3 stars on tanks since the moment they changed it to 2 ... dont think they will ever fix it :) i tought the same about 1,5 years ago ya see :)
ya i remember it a fair while ago tanks having 3 stars, i just wonder is it so hard to fix?
and i aint saying if it is or not with that, as i dont know, im curious what is required for them to bring tanks inline withother classes.
i mean come on the damage a CS can deliver and we are only 2 stars >.<
Clownst0pper
26-04-04, 15:55
Ezza, In an OP war, a tank can AOE, and do serious dmg to fully buffed players.
Have u ever hit a PPU buffed player? I think I once hit eledhgrunt for 10 dmg, in 3 hits.
FUCK ME, im gonna take what, zero people down, in the off chance that I might get someone with a shelter and deflector (very unlikely)
H-C have major dmg over us, have AOE, do stupid dmg to even buffed players, and are far more practicle.
Melee needs a boost, just so we can actually do more than 10 dmg to a buffed player.
enigma_b17
26-04-04, 15:55
melee tanks are fabulous, i love em, they dont the same damage as a cs does cause they dont get the runspeed nerf that HC tanks get when they ave a cs out, ie melee tanks can dodge shots alot easier then hc i have found
Ezza is right actually, bearing in mind reload time and RoF, you can get about 20 DG swipes off in the time it takes to unload 10 CS bursts.
Clownst0pper
26-04-04, 15:57
Nono, whats the point in being able to avoid shots when they never do any dmg during OP wars?
Sure I ******** loads of monks, and thats it, i cant touch tanks, spys, pe's or PPU's, and I only ever ******** APU's when there not buffed, or the PPU is dumb as fuck.
Sorry but that isnt a viable class, hoping on the off chance someone isnt buffed, just before u can kill someone :rolleyes:
Ezza is right actually, bearing in mind reload time and RoF, you can get about 20 DG swipes off in the time it takes to unload 10 CS bursts.
The point is, I do roughly 20 dmg per hit, sometimes slightly more to eledhgrunt (yes ill continue to use him as I know hes a good tank with good con) A CS to an unbuffed player does triple that dmg. U say U have a reload time? It takes seconds to reload a CS, id say about 2 to 3 seconds, by that time a skilled tank will have had my legs before the reload anyway, effectivly then im already dead.
Sorry but I shouldnt have to hit someone with a TL 103 weapon 20 times for them to die. I dont see people surviving 20 hits with a HL, or CS, or any weapon in the game for that matter 8|
slaughteruall
26-04-04, 15:59
HC tanks are fine... their highest TL direct damage weapon is only 105 so they cap dmg. no matter what some people will tell you, with a decent setup a CS aims fast, and most well setup people nearly cap RoF too.
My tank with his own buff caps ROF on the CS. Still need 5 CON lvls to cap him tho. I've been hunting fire mobs without armour. It's pretty good CON XP. And i can clone boosters for my 3 monks.
Slaughter
enigma_b17
26-04-04, 15:59
well ive played a melee tank on pluto a good bit, given that i havent actually being in op wars much due to the fact that pluto is more or less dead (saw 7 ppl on this morning :o ), but I aint tried takin out a ppu yet, dg doesnt really do anything to me on NoNo so I sort of c wher u comin from m8
Ezza, In an OP war, a tank can AOE, and do serious dmg to fully buffed players.
Have u ever hit a PPU buffed player? I think I once hit eledhgrunt for 10 dmg, in 3 hits.
FUCK ME, im gonna take what, zero people down, in the off chance that I might get someone with a shelter and deflector (very unlikely)
H-C have major dmg over us, have AOE, do stupid dmg to even buffed players, and are far more practicle.
Melee needs a boost, just so we can actually do more than 10 dmg to a buffed player.lol koro iwas a melee tank for a while in cartel before the rest were going it(think you had lommed back to heavy at that time) and i op ward often, and i done pretty good, onyl time i had problems was when it was lagging.
i though iwas doing crap damage at first but it was DG who who pointed out to me that i was destroying enemies
remember HC tanks also run slower than the melee tank veriety, so you have potential to not take as many direct hits as a heavy tank.
Clownst0pper
26-04-04, 16:02
I think most people will agree koro is a fuck*er at OP wars just because im all over the shop, and I only ever go for APU's, devils has felt the wrath of that many times.
But it doesnt make me uselful, and i certainly dont have an impact. The simple fact is, compared to H-C user, My DG does zero to buffed players, a CS still does lots.
Y should I be punished with shit dmg on buffed players, because of my run speed?
reduce my run speed for nice dmg please, ill make that sacrifice.
Untill melee recieves a DMG boost it will only ever be a fun class, not a practicle one.
you take it as one swipe = 1 CS blast
i look at it as 1 CS blast = 4 swipes, and with the ROF on the capped DG you can deliver the swipes in fast
speak to fenyx if you dont think melee tanks are viable op chars, he was/is? a killer melee tank and was good in op wars iirc
i was a melee tank for asecond period maybe amonth ago, even against buffed chars while pking with vet at MB i was doing good damage.
you aint confusing crap damage with poor netcode or whatever the problem with melee is
Clownst0pper
26-04-04, 16:04
A capped DG swipe ROF is the exact same as a POB, VR, any melee rare, they are identicle.
The more melee I have doesnt make me swipe faster.
1 swipw = 4 blobs of plasma, = 1 burst of CS. 4 blobs or a burst from a CS can hit me by the time ive swung once
The DMG from 4 blobs of plasma is triple if not 4x the dmg of a single swipe from a DG.
No one can tell me the CS has a bad ROF also, its practically auto, with stoppage for reloading.
227/min I had on koro wearing PA 3, and I know all tanks practically have it now
The point is, I do roughly 20 dmg per hit, sometimes slightly more to eledhgrunt (yes ill continue to use him as I know hes a good tank with good con) A CS to an unbuffed player does triple that dmg. U say U have a reload time? It takes seconds to reload a CS, id say about 2 to 3 seconds, by that time a skilled tank will have had my legs before the reload anyway, effectivly then im already dead.
Sorry but I shouldnt have to hit someone with a TL 103 weapon 20 times for them to die. I dont see people surviving 20 hits with a HL, or CS, or any weapon in the game for that matter 8|You do that 20 damage per hit constantly though. A full CS burst into a Tank's legs, e.g. when he's almost dead, will only do 20 damage itself. And you can get 2 swings off in the time it takes to fire a burst. A skilled melee Tank won't get hit in the legs in the first place, by using his high runspeed and staying very close to his opponent to make himself difficult to target.
The number of hits is irrelevant. What matters is the time taken to score those hits, and on time, H-C and M-C Tanks are equal. Notice how a melee tank doesn't take any longer to kill a Grim Chaser than a H-C tank does?
EDIT: I wouldn't advocate reduced runspeed for increased damage if I were you. I'd never take any damage from a melee tank ever again.
then go back to heavy combat then, i had no problem as a melee tank, only reason i went back was because i loved using my CS.
i was a far more effective Pker as a melee tank than a H-C tank, and ok op wars you might not be as usefull but i always got kills at op wars
Recalculated, the capped ROF DG can swing roughly 2.5 times in the time it takes the CS to fire it's four blobs.
With 20 damage a swipe, that comes out at 50 damage in the time a CS tank fires one full burst. I'm not sure about the miss rate exactly on the CS, but I've heard that usually 3 blobs hit per burst... So on a pure shots hit over time basis the CS is only slightly faster then the DG.
Clownst0pper
26-04-04, 16:10
You do that 20 damage per hit constantly though.
It isnt constantly, we have a ROF, that is fixed.
A full CS burst into a Tank's legs, e.g. when he's almost dead, will only do 20 damage itself. And you can get 2 swings off in the time it takes to fire a burst.
U only ever need to hit a melee tank, or any class in the legs once with a CS to break them, once there broken the tank just then hits u in the head as ur effectivly as imobile as a holy parashocked player
A skilled melee Tank won't get hit in the legs in the first place, by using his high runspeed and staying very close to his opponent to make himself difficult to target.
Subjective to the skill of ur opposition, some H-C tanks I never get hit once, of the better players on saturn I take lots of hammer, not because im a bad melee tank, but melee tanks generally are easy to hit, as H-C i never had any problem, just keep backing up while circle strafing. Not being hit by a skilled player is unavoidable, dispite the run speed advantage.
Who ever said H-C tanks run slow with cannons out anyway? most fights revolve around strafing, in that sense, tanks still run quickly.
The number of hits is irrelevant. What matters is the time taken to score those hits, and on time, H-C and M-C Tanks are equal. Notice how a melee tank doesn't take any longer to kill a Grim Chaser than a H-C tank does?
Thats because Melee does super PVM dmg, it doesnt do good PVP dmg.
Take 2 tanks, A melee, and a H-C, no buffs, and get them to attack each other while not moving, I gaurentee the Melee tank will go down quicker than britney spears, with the H-C comming off with at least Half HP.
Clownst0pper
26-04-04, 16:11
Recalculated, the capped ROF DG can swing roughly 2.5 times in the time it takes the CS to fire it's four blobs.
With 20 damage a swipe, that comes out at 50 damage in the time a CS tank fires one full burst. I'm not sure about the miss rate exactly on the CS, but I've heard that usually 3 blobs hit per burst... So on a pure shots hit over time basis the CS is only slightly faster then the DG.
This is true, but that doesnt take into account that a melee tank due to ur speed, and ur oppositions will never continually hit a target twice in a row, not if the player ur facing has any ounce of skill.
U often run so fast as a melee tank U cause urself to miss. It isnt easy.
Thats the reason we have thunderbolt, so its EASIER.
apologies for double posting
It isnt constantly, we have a ROF, that is fixed.
Try reading the sentence again? When someone is almost dead, you still deal 20 damage per swing to them.
U only ever need to hit a melee tank, or any class in the legs once with a CS to break them, once there broken the tank just then hits u in the head as ur effectivly as imobile as a holy parashocked player
It takes more than just one. If it only takes 1, then you have too little HP.
Subjective to the skill of ur opposition, some H-C tanks I never get hit once, of the better players on saturn I take lots of hammer, not because im a bad melee tank, but melee tanks generally are easy to hit, as H-C i never had any problem, just keep backing up while circle strafing. Not being hit by a skilled player is unavoidable, dispite the run speed advantage.
I disagree. The real skill in PvP is when your movements go beyond merely reacting to your opponent, and you take the initiative. By staying very close, and running through and behind your opponent, you can avoid being hit. I suggest you practice it a little more.
Who ever said H-C tanks run slow with cannons out anyway? most fights revolve around strafing, in that sense, tanks still run quickly.
Who did say that? Melee tanks run faster.
Thats because Melee does super PVM dmg, it doesnt do good PVP dmg.
PvM damage and PvP damage are calculated from the exact same base. There is no separation, only the damage types. And H-C Tanks get their piercing resist no higher than an M-C Tank gets his fire/xray.
Take 2 tanks, A melee, and a H-C, no buffs, and get them to attack each other while not moving, I gaurentee the Melee tank will go down quicker than britney spears, with the H-C comming off with at least Half HP.
Tell you what, why don't you do it, and prove me wrong? You're trying to get changes made, so you can do the work to prove your case.
Clownst0pper
26-04-04, 16:26
It takes more than just one. If it only takes 1, then you have too little HP.
I have capped body health on my tank, and fully capped resists. Tuxy and Eledhgrunt grunt can take my legs out in one hit if they get it correctly.
Ive dueled tuxy on saturn many many times, he is incredibly talented at breaking legs, so much so in a duel ive seen people turn around and theyve taken a burst to the legs, and they are broken. 8|
I disagree. The real skill in PvP is when your movements go beyond merely reacting to your opponent, and you take the initiative. By staying very close, and running through and behind your opponent, you can avoid being hit. I suggest you practice it a little more.
Koro is my favourite character, As I say, there are very few people who I cannot kill in a duel, perhaps two, Eledhgrunt, (always very close) and Tuxy (has now left NC) But both of these have extensive melee vs practice.
Most players cant combat Melee users just because they arent used to them, there are so few, and so few good ones, they have had no practice against them
Who did say that? Melee tanks run faster.
I didnt say that, people make out that H-C tanks run like slugs, they actually move fairly quick in duels, Perfectly fast enough to be 100% effective. Ive never found the speed loss with a cannon a problem/
PvM damage and PvP damage are calculated from the exact same base. There is no separation, only the damage types. And H-C Tanks get their piercing resist no higher than an M-C Tank gets his fire/xray.
This is true, but I was talking about a Holy shelter/Deflectored tank, and a Holy shelterd/Deflected melee tank.
I dont know why, or how, But a melee tank does next to nothing to a buffed tank, I gaurentee a H-C tank still rips through players buffed, even with or without a DMG boost.
I think I once hit a buffed and dmg boosted tank for 20 dmg, which was, er , normal o_O
Tell you what, why don't you do it, and prove me wrong? You're trying to get changes made, so you can do the work to prove your case.
Id love to be able to get on the test server, sadly its fucked my NC copy up every time, otherwise I would do extensive melee testing
Holy buffs are a problem with PPUs, not H-C tanks. PEs can't hurt buffed players much, spies can't hurt buffed players much, blessed hybrids can't hurt buffed players much. CS isn't exactly dangerous to a holy buffed char either. A melee damage boost (which you're getting anyway with a TL115 DG, if you're patient) is going to reach a point of being unbalanced outside of OP wars before it starts doing decent damage to buffed players, just like any other weapon. Holy Shelter and Holy Heal on a Tank outheals a single CS, it's not as if melee is the only weapon type with a problem.
I'm sorry but when you have other experienced melee tanks like Ezza and Fenix showing that melee tanks don't have a hard time, and you're the only one with a problem (also again with the 'capped resists' part, which is technically completely false and therefore doesn't really say anything at all) you don't have much of an argument.
Clownst0pper
26-04-04, 16:46
Holy buffs are a problem with PPUs, not H-C tanks. PEs can't hurt buffed players much, spies can't hurt buffed players much, blessed hybrids can't hurt buffed players much. CS isn't exactly dangerous to a holy buffed char either. A melee damage boost (which you're getting anyway with a TL115 DG, if you're patient) is going to reach a point of being unbalanced outside of OP wars before it starts doing decent damage to buffed players, just like any other weapon. Holy Shelter and Holy Heal on a Tank outheals a single CS, it's not as if melee is the only weapon type with a problem.
I'm sorry but when you have other experienced melee tanks like Ezza and Fenix showing that melee tanks don't have a hard time, and you're the only one with a problem (also again with the 'capped resists' part, which is technically completely false and therefore doesn't really say anything at all) you don't have much of an argument.
I wasnt saying I have a hard time, Im saying they are limited, and suck in OP wars, OK perhaps not suck, but the only chance u will ever be effective, is the tinyest off chance u may catch an APU un-buffed. Is that your idea of a practicle class?
In duels there fucking amazing, as most people have no clue how to fight them, in OP wars we 100% do less dmg than any other class. And yes, CS really does do alot of dmg on buffed players compared to all but the HL.
And the TL jump from 103 to 115 is only 12 levels, I really cant see it becomming over powered.
There's only 13 between a Judge and an Executioner, and we all know the difference between those two.
Fact is, there are other melee tanks that do just fine, Ezza and Fenix have taken the time to point that out. You can drag this on all you like, currently you're the only melee tank here having problems, which suggests it's not down to the class.
Clownst0pper
26-04-04, 16:57
Ezza and Fenix never said there "amazing" or "needed" or "practicle" in OP wars.
All they have ever said is they have fun, and are usually the last standing.
It doesnt mean theyve killed anyone, it doesnt mean its because there melee.
Its purely because melee is hard to hit, and obviously they are buffed like myself.
And sure enough, I am always alive in OP wars, running 2 and fro randomly hitting people, it doesnt mean I do dmg, or cause use to win like I can on my APU. Again, its just because im hard to hit.
In duels melee tanks own everyone (unless ur those tanks who practice leg breaking, very few)
In OP wars they remain inpracticle, alot of fun, the last standing, and hard to hit, they are good against turrets as they move to quick to be hit by them, but at the end of the day, if the class isnt doing the dmg to a buffed player, what use is the class?
At least a PE/SPY can stealth, turret whore, hack OP's, poke even during Op wars, Melee tanks, well none of the above.
Dont get me wrong I love melee, but I would like a dmg boost, Scikar, I just get the vibe U h8 melee users because u hate parashock so much, U h8 me using it on ikari, and on koro no doubt. U probably cant combat melee tanks, so think there fine.
I play a melee tank on pluto extensivly, and nowdays on saturn aswell.
The only problem i see with melee tanks is dmg to buffed players. Dmg on
unbuffed ppl is perfectly balanced imo, but when someone is ppu buffed
there is nothing you can do, nothing at all (unless the ppu is whack).
My role in opwars is to take out apu's though (mostly), wait for one of ours
to antibuff and start swiping with the PoB. Works very well because there is
no way in hell they can outrun me. But i think i do pretty well against any
other classes aswell.
We'll have to wait and see with the new rares & TL changes.
Jesterthegreat
27-04-04, 14:06
My tank with his own buff caps ROF on the CS. Still need 5 CON lvls to cap him tho. I've been hunting fire mobs without armour. It's pretty good CON XP. And i can clone boosters for my 3 monks.
Slaughter
well considering everyone and his mum has a (almost - fully) arti CS (assuming you been around a while or hunted lot) thats right.
my tanks only 85 str, but he is kami'd atm so caps freq and almost aim :D
Those points wont be unneeded when the melee TL rework comes around....
Jesterthegreat
27-04-04, 14:17
Those points wont be unneeded when the melee TL rework comes around....
...
melee rares going up in TL
...
surely higher req's for melee rares
...
how does this mean less points are needed?
I play a melee tank on pluto extensivly, and nowdays on saturn aswell.
The only problem i see with melee tanks is dmg to buffed players.
This isn't just melee tanks, as pointed out before, it's pretty much everyone. I'm close to capped with my Pistol PE, and I do like 2 pts of damage on a fully buffed person when I shoot em with my libby.
I'm thinking that instead of wondering how to make this class or that class more viable in PvP, we should be discussing/wondering how to counter-attack against a fully buffed player of any class, regardless of which class we are.
...
melee rares going up in TL
...
surely higher req's for melee rares
...
how does this mean less points are needed?
I beleive you answered your own question....
but in case you still dont get it, when TLs go up, reqs go up, and this isnt like the APU req increase, a DG is going to need considerably more than 169 MC to cap an arti DG, it not unlike the HC weapons will more than likely need over 220 MC to cap....and that my friend is how those points will be needed....
slaughteruall
28-04-04, 05:06
well considering everyone and his mum has a (almost - fully) arti CS (assuming you been around a while or hunted lot) thats right.
my tanks only 85 str, but he is kami'd atm so caps freq and almost aim :D
It's only a 2 slot CS with dmg at 106 or something like that. But that's all you need really.
CS is easy to aim with yes.. when you know how to.
I had a nice aim before..
then I started playing my PE more than my tank.
Now I hit most shots..
So I believe anyone that can play a PE can EASILY play a tank.
(You must be fighting the wrong tanks then :p most tanks I fight never miss)
<- the only ultimated Michael Jackson PE who never misses when he uses his uber judge against Naimex in Neofrag :cool:
BTW I Agree with you Naimex or whoever said it...
Tanks are actually not THAT hard to aim and neither as rifles are, I always get this BS from people like oh u only aim good coz u're using a pistol PE I can do that, sure so I try a tank and er I probabaly am not as accurate coz i hardly play tank but im still able to kill quite a few...
i dont find rifle hard to aim at all really...well not the ones im speced to use, my tank cant use a CS yet (need that damn marine lol) but aiming with a TPC is fine...
It's a not a damage increase your looking for, it's melee mods (ie. poison tipped low tech swords/claws) (X-Ray, Fire Injected high tech melee blades)
Then melee tanks would be useful in OP wars, instead of a nuissance.
Eledhbrant
29-04-04, 01:29
Think im famous in this thread now, go me :)
I swear all the tanks suck. There are so many tanks that cant aim. I was playing on a friends near cap tank and the CS was extremely easy to aim. I use a lib about 70% of the time (30% earp) and I must say tanks have it good. It's not hard to aim a CS and I'm suprised there aren't more good tanks out there. CS still does a lot of damage and IMO they're balanced. Even if force owns them...
More on topic. PEs have the same problem. Cap your force and DG then dump it all in transport. You'll be able to carry everything and a little more... but what's wrong with that? I guess you could put your extra points in heavy combat and get crappy stats on HC guns. Maybe you could snipe with a tangent laser cannon or something?
Arn't there any good tanks left on pluto now? i know there would be a bit of a vacume after xio, tupac, masta and me left but i would of thought that kayne icie and a few others would still be putting up a good show? I havnt logged in for ages so i dont know what the current trends are :confused:
BTW I Agree with you Naimex or whoever said it...
Tanks are actually not THAT hard to aim and neither as rifles are, I always get this BS from people like oh u only aim good coz u're using a pistol PE I can do that, sure so I try a tank and er I probabaly am not as accurate coz i hardly play tank but im still able to kill quite a few...
I used to get 100% accuracy with a judge regually in neofrag against slutsumi, kid brainiac doc holiday etc, i dont know many tanks that can do that with a cs i sure as hell couldnt........ 80% average maybe 90% hits if i was lucky.
EDIT:sorry about the dbl post im half asleep here :(
i do fine with my tank :)
yall moaners and yeh meelee is fine i killed more peeps with my meelee then my hc
Shadow Dancer
29-04-04, 03:02
edit:wrong thread :rolleyes:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.