OK this is an exploit

[Biznatchy]

We have all seen many descriptions of what an exploit is.

"Taking advantage of a game bug or flaw that gives a player an unfair advantage over other players."

1. Why can monks still attack things they do dont have line of sight on. FFS this is still pissing me off. It gets agitated by the corner exploit in 3rd person view.

2. Why have we not put a ret on monk aim. I mean does every no skill wantabe play a monk because they cant aim.

I really tired of monkacron because of these two things. If you would just fix these two things it would go along way to balancing the PPU/APU teams that can wipe out 5 players of the same skill level. I put alot of points in the speed of my char to have it really fast, thus giving up some PC. But all that is fucked due to monks exploiting the bugs in the aiming system or lack there off.

Yes not a new rant but it hasnt been fixed or even hinted that it will get fixed so yes its coming up again.

Dont give me they are aiming with the mind bullshit. I stick a judge or CS right it your face and still miss is really belivable. It not like I shouldnt be able to spay and pray with a flame thrower or uzi. But we still have to wait for the ret to close even though we are on target.

[Duder]

Stop fucking whining, its no use, either live with it or leave.

[naimex]

I can´t play monks.......



Haven´t been able to play a monk since they nerfed hybrid a million years ago..


PEs and tanks I can play tho...

[Shadow Dancer]

I agree aps should get ret. I don't see the point in PPUs getting ret though. Who thinks ppus should get ret? :D


APU ret should determine damage, instead of it being completely random. That way the skill-less ones can't get lucky and score 3-4 high end hits just because of randomness.

I also don't think this would go a "Long way" towards balancing monks. PPU is the center problem IMO. Their shields, their buffs, their importance.

[El Barto]

Dunno why, but I find it harder aiming with out the retical, well with the dev I find it harder to aim (you don't need to close the retical to hit so is a bit like not having one), but CS is nice and easy, or gats or any other close up heavy weapon. Pistol PEs are very easy to aim with, or at least for me it is.

[Clownst0pper]

Here we go.

/set argue_biznatchy 1

I find both easy.

I actually think the monk reticle aiming is slightly harder, with the split second u have to press the 'fire' button, the opposition may often have moved out of your small cross hair.

If you can aim well with a reticle based weapon, u can aim perfectly well with a monk non reticle.

In the same argument, Why dont u want drones to have a reticle

OH w8, its obvious with your sheer rambling you have never played a monk or a droner, both 'point and click'

The whole defination is completely borked, not only do monks have to aim as much as anyone else, they also have to wait for there boosters to charge, they suffer ROF loss when there psi power is low, they have to much stamina's every time they run and use a psi booster.

And how many apu's actually use the 3rd person exploit? I know very very few, its another example of lets nerf the APU and PPU.

And your going to be one of the people who are moaning when a PPU cant heal u until his reticle is fully closed.

[enigma_b17]

i recommend u go try playing a monk before u go complaining about it not having a reticle, it can be quite hard to target some1 and click on them before they move out of ur reticle, then if u still find it too "easy" dont come and complain on ere :P

[Clownst0pper]

i recommend u go try playing a monk before u go complaining about it not having a reticle, it can be quite hard to target some1 and click on them before they move out of ur reticle, then if u still find it too "easy" dont come and complain on ere :P

AOE reticle should be removed, as effectivly, it is designed to be fired at one location, Why does it have a reticle?

If an APU gets a reticle, and the PPU doesnt, people are going to complain that PPU's have it too easy and unfairly because they can again just 'point and click'

[SjanTeN^]

noob question: what is AOE?

[naimex]

noob question: what is AOE?

Area of Effect :

Area Damage
Barrels
Sanctums

and such ;)

[Shadow Dancer]

noob question: what is AOE?


Area of Effect.

[Genty]

2. Why have we not put a ret on monk aim. I mean does every no skill wantabe play a monk because they cant aim.

This is the point when your post looses all credability. Monk aiming is not as simple as clicking randomly and it hiting the person that you want every time, you actually have to aim and click very quick. It is especially hard when it is close up fight. Also, not all monks only use their spells, just because your a monk using a rifle does not mean there is no reticle...you get a reticle then.


I really tired of monkacron because of these two things. If you would just fix these two things it would go along way to balancing the PPU/APU teams that can wipe out 5 players of the same skill level. I put alot of points in the speed of my char to have it really fast, thus giving up some PC. But all that is fucked due to monks exploiting the bugs in the aiming system or lack there off.

If the team of 5 included a ppu then that team would of kicked arse. PPU's are the ones to imbalance fights in this case, not the whole monk class.


Yes not a new rant but it hasnt been fixed or even hinted that it will get fixed so yes its coming up again.

There is nothing to fix. Monks use their mind to attack / defend, they are going to have a different system to manually operated weapons.


Dont give me they are aiming with the mind bullshit.

Tough shit I just did :D


I stick a judge or CS right it your face and still miss is really belivable. It not like I shouldnt be able to spay and pray with a flame thrower or uzi. But we still have to wait for the ret to close even though we are on target.

The reason spray and pray is not available with flame thrower is due to the lag issues that would come with it, the same reason why full auto was taken out in beta and replaced with burst weapons. It's not like you have to wait long for the ret to close if you have good skill and again, the reason that there is a reticle for weapons is lag related aswell as having to rely on your character skills and not only your player skills.

[Shadow Dancer]

There is nothing to fix. Monks use their mind to attack / defend, they are going to have a different system to manually operated weapons.



A reticle could represent the amount of concentration you're putting into that psi spell. If you just let loose willy nilly, it wouldn't be as effective as a monk that has concentrated for a bit.

[Clownst0pper]

I think often people cross the boundry, and forget this is infact an MMORPG, and not a first person shooter, if this was the case, we would have no use for weapon lore, as aim would be point and click.

The fact is, specialisation and the players choices affect there ability to aim, much like in RL if u spent 24/7 firing an uzi in various ways, ud be better than someone who first picked it up.

A monk works on the same principle, psi use affects there ROF on a spell, it is not a must that all monks choose to max there psi use, in this sense, if they didnt, they wouldnt be run casting as much as it seems u hate.

To add a reticle to the monk class would kill it.

I just get the vibe some APU/PPU combo owned u.

But again, ull be the one moaning when PPU's and APU's are nerfed to fuck and back, and your precious PE is doing the rounds.


A reticle could represent the amount of concentration you're putting into that psi spell. If you just let loose willy nilly, it wouldn't be as effective as a monk that has concentrated for a bit.

The thing is shadow, a monk who stays still to concentrate is a dead monk.

The whole prinicple of an APU is they hit hard, die quick, if im standing there trying to get a perfectly closed reticle, well ive probably been hit about 10 times by now with my opposition strafing and doing.

[Forget My Name]

Why do people have to be degrading and always say " noob question?"

Just ask your question.

[naimex]

Might I just point out..


yea, ok... Monks have no reticle.. buu huuu they dont have to wait the split second it takes for a gun to go to lock..



However, how often does your gun stop shooting just because you are moving ??

Not very often is it ? ;)


A monk running, if they aren´t skilled enough, (and often even if they are skilled enough)

Can´t cast their spell whilst running..





So tell me...

If Monks got reticle, and had to wait the split second before they could be sure to do damage..

Do you also think that any other class shouldn´t be able to shoot, because they are moving..




Hey that´s unfair !!

You ran away so I couldn´t shoot you, cuz I couldn´t keep my fingers on the trigger whilst I was running..

[Shadow Dancer]

The thing is shadow, a monk who stays still to concentrate is a dead monk.

The whole prinicple of an APU is they hit hard, die quick, if im standing there trying to get a perfectly closed reticle, well ive probably been hit about 10 times by now with my opposition strafing and doing.



Who said anything about standing still?





Naimex i'm not sure I understand what you mean. I never ever miscast my HL and I run like a chicken with it's head cut off. The only time I miscast is when I miss, but that's why it's called missing. :p

[naimex]

and how much psi use do you have ?

(I bet it´s more than 140)

and how much handling is your spell ??


those 2 are the only things (except player movement) affecting Run-Cast

[Shadow Dancer]

and how much psi use do you have ?

(I bet it´s more than 140)

and how much handling is your spell ??


those 2 are the only things (except player movement) affecting Run-Cast


Handling doesn't affect anything IIRC. Only PSU and damage % on the spell.


I have 200 psu. Of course that's overkill, because PSU affects rof and I still cap rof at like 175 psu.


And of course it's over 140. Unless you always want to compare this to pes/spies/tanks with little or no weapon lore.

[naimex]

Almost everytime i´m in war, I see monks casting a few times, without getting the spell cast..


and besides that, spells are in general bugged far more than guns..

often you can´t even draw spell, and more often it wont cast..

which kinda makes any monk worthless, if that happens..

[Shadow Dancer]

Almost everytime i´m in war, I see monks casting a few times, without getting the spell cast..





Maybe they're missing?


:D




often you can´t even draw spell, and more often it wont cast..

which kinda makes any monk worthless, if that happens..


hrmm, that happens to me only rarely. But not much. But still, it's not enough to justify having no ret.

[40$Poser]

if you want to get technical, anyone in their right mind knows that the height of the 1st person view is much lower than it should be. Basically your viewing everything around you from your chest, when the camera should be about head height.

[Clownst0pper]

I have 200 psi use, and 174 base APU, without a psi 3.

I miss cast, not very often, but enough to sometimes take some hammer, if the player is skilled enough, and a quick enough mover, its un avoidable

[tomparadox]

comeon damnit quit trying to nerf the apus... they can hit you without aiming because when they casted the spell the aim thing was on you for a second or 2 then you ran off and it casted. it happends live with it they are already nerfed enuf...


Here we go.

/set argue_biznatchy 1

I find both easy.

I actually think the monk reticle aiming is slightly harder, with the split second u have to press the 'fire' button, the opposition may often have moved out of your small cross hair.

If you can aim well with a reticle based weapon, u can aim perfectly well with a monk non reticle.

In the same argument, Why dont u want drones to have a reticle

OH w8, its obvious with your sheer rambling you have never played a monk or a droner, both 'point and click'

The whole defination is completely borked, not only do monks have to aim as much as anyone else, they also have to wait for there boosters to charge, they suffer ROF loss when there psi power is low, they have to much stamina's every time they run and use a psi booster.

And how many apu's actually use the 3rd person exploit? I know very very few, its another example of lets nerf the APU and PPU.

And your going to be one of the people who are moaning when a PPU cant heal u until his reticle is fully closed.

exactlly... and they take more dmg because they dont have good defense...
if you add a damn aiming thing of it like guns have then they are going to be nerfed to hell because they half to keep the thing on the person AND wait for it to lock on... thats why APUs dont have it , most apus iv seen you can kill in 2 - 3 hits of a CS...

[Jadzia Eleazar]

....
1. Why can monks still attack things they do dont have line of sight on. FFS this is still pissing me off. It gets agitated by the corner exploit in 3rd person view.

2. Why have we not put a ret on monk aim. I mean does every no skill wantabe play a monk because they cant aim.

Dont give me they are aiming with the mind bullshit. I stick a judge or CS right it your face and still miss is really belivable. It not like I shouldnt be able to spay and pray with a flame thrower or uzi. But we still have to wait for the ret to close even though we are on target.

Sorry, but I've to give you the mind bullshit. A monk concentrates his PSI energies upon a target he sees before his mind. No need of LoS here. However, I also think that the targeting of guns is bullshit, coz in RL you don't have to wait for a circle to close. Simply shoot whereever you are aiming.

[Clownst0pper]

Sorry, but I've to give you the mind bullshit. A monk concentrates his PSI energies upon a target he sees before his mind. No need of LoS here. However, I also think that the targeting of guns is bullshit, coz in RL you don't have to wait for a circle to close. Simply shoot whereever you are aiming.

This is an online RPG based on player statistics not quake 3 arena

[Organics]

Sorry, but I've to give you the mind bullshit. A monk concentrates his PSI energies upon a target he sees before his mind. No need of LoS here. However, I also think that the targeting of guns is bullshit, coz in RL you don't have to wait for a circle to close. Simply shoot whereever you are aiming.

Well yeah that'd work for pointblank, but if you just fired a handgun Hollywood style at much of a distance, you won't be hitting jackshit unless it's by luck. Or a rifle for that matter. Without aiming for a couple of seconds you will wind up killing nothing but a nasty pocket of air.

And implementing two different reticles is probably too tedious to bother with.

[FBI]

Well, the spell could fizzle when the line of sight is lost but that's just my take.
Monk has <insert here> class targeted and casts it as he/she goes behind a wall,
spell would fizzle because target is not in sight any longer.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care. This just "makes sense" to me.

Parad0x -FBI

[Shadow Dancer]

Or just make the spell LOS. Like Holy lightning could have the Ravager's projectile gfx effect.

[Clownst0pper]

I was talking about this the other day shadow, why can a HL go through roofs and buildings and caves?

They should make it so u have to use LOS spells, and HL outside in open areas. would make sense

[bounty]

This shouldn't be an issue i play both classes and they seem balanced to me.


Shadow dancer: you asked how you could put a recticle on a ppu. Easy. The tighter the crosshair on the person, the higher the % on damage and how effective that said spell is. However this would be so dumb, since trying to cast spells on a moving runner while standing still is hard enough as it is.

[Barak]

Anyone whining about apus being hard to aim as it is, is BS
I've logged on a friends apu and it's easy to get hits on the target running at full pelt etc

not only do they get the best damagebut they want training wheels for their aiming?

jeez

[Clownst0pper]

Barak, of course its easy to aim at someone running away from you, they run in a bloody straight line, its easy to hit someone with any weapon when someones running from u, especially pistols.

Were talking about up close and personal, when both players are strafing like mad.

Jeez :o

[Barak]

Barak, of course its easy to aim at someone running away from you, they run in a bloody straight line, its easy to hit someone with any weapon when someones running from u, especially pistols.

Were talking about up close and personal, when both players are strafing like mad.

Jeez :o
[ edited ]
full pelt doesn't = in a line

it's easy as fuck

[Clownst0pper]

You clearly havnt dueled someone of decent skill.

For a monk to never miss cast once, during a duel against a nother player is impossible.

I have never encountered one monk on pluto or saturn who hasnt 'fizzled' out at least twice during duels and PVP.

[tiikeri]

However, I also think that the targeting of guns is bullshit, coz in RL you don't have to wait for a circle to close. Simply shoot whereever you are aiming.

As i see this one.. u have never fired a REAL gun. U can't just pull ur assaultrifle and point it somewhere and hit.. or then u should make some shows where u show how good u are.

I'll give u a good warm hand shake if u can hit half a meter circle from 150meters just by pulling ur gun up and shoot with just pointing the gun there..

yes. u can hit the same target from 300 meters too, but it needs really hard aiming. And first of all.. when u start shooting, u should calibrate ur gun before firing, u just can't say oops when u aimed a guy who was @ 150meters and ur gun was calibrated to 50meters..

Edit: and i'll know u can't do it while standing.

[Barak]

yeah monks fizzle it's expected but it's often press 3 -> 8 and that fizzle means nothing

it still stands that monk aiming is piss easy
and don't gimmie that you must have dueled a noob crap.

[Clownst0pper]

I didnt say I dont find monk aiming easy, I also pointed out other problems

When U use a psi booster ur stamina drops majorly, ur ROF drops when ur psi pool is low, you run out of stamina's u can use ur psi boosters, without a PPU u die stupidly quick to anyone with any amount of skill.

And the fact that the HL dmg is stupidly random. I hit a tank for 22 dmg once, and in the next hit, he went for 140 - WTF is going off there?

Then u want us to have a reticle ontop of that??

What does a Gun user do? Aim and fire, reload is automatic, u can still reload if u dont have any stamina, your ROF on ur gun will never change, and you dont have to 'update' your quick bar with ammo like we do every 10 minutes, in some cases, every 2 minutes.

Oh plz gimme a reticle, i havnt enough on 8|

[Shadow Dancer]

Clown man I gotta disagree with you again. First of all I hafta say the only real disadvantage we have in terms of reloading, is having to put the stupid boosters on our QB. Their really should be a psi booster button. You should only use about 1-2 boosters in a 1v1. Usually only 1. Or none if you have spot on aiming. About the missing. Well alot of gun users never beat someone without missing at least once either. Gun users have to wait for the reticle to close and keep it closed, apus don't. Obviously that means it's easier for apus.


Technically with good aiming, an apu doesn't have to reload at all in a 1v1. Assuming he has decent mana pool. Also I think reticle would have to determine damage. Obviously you can't have reticle AND random damage, or the reticle would be pointless.


I think the only valid point you made is that we have to put boosters in our QB. That's extremely annoying and unfair IMO. Stopping in an op war to click and drag 7-8 boosters and standing their for god knows how long, is so annoying.

[LiL T]

Monks should have a ret nuff said every other class does so why not them there the highest damaging class in the game atm. Its not hard to hit with a monk at all any one the has a little pistol aim xp can make a monk and hit someone every fucking time and the damage is insane.

[Indrid Cold]

*Coughs out some cobwebs.*

Let me throw in some RPG aspects.

Lets say a monk sees you, and he starts concentrating on casting a harmful thing at you with the power of his mind. He's already seen you, he can already follow you with the power of thought.

This isn't quake or UT, this is an MMORPG, based on sci-fi fantasy.

Now some technical aspects.

A monk sees you and shoots you, he's already shot, even if you went around the corner. Just like any tank or an pe or any spy.

[Barak]

you can create all the fancy reasons you like - it's more balance then feasebility(sp?)

[tomparadox]

jest leav the damn monks alown already go bitch about the PEs or something...

IMO apus need unnerfed.. every apu i have fought that wasent hybrid but pure apu i have owned. iv done it with a tank/spy/PE/ and an apu......

[Indrid Cold]

The only real solution is to make Monks work like they're holding guns? If that happened you'd be kill spammed so fast by APUs you'd cry the same day as the patch hit that monks need a nerf.

Monks as of right now, have a charge up time, and a cool down time. Real high TL stuff is hard to run cast (charge up time), and if I skill all my PSI into having the ability to do it, I've earned it. Just like you earn that fancy weapon lock by skilling weapon-lore.

The cool down time just prevents spamming (and on occasion swapping spells correctly). What you're asking for is to make an APU have a gattling holy lightning, that is if you switched from the current method to the recticle method. Then spells would have to be nerfed again, and we all might as well just play a real FPS instead of an FPS-MMORPG, because no one would want to play monks anymore.

In the 8 months that I've been gone, I've suffered some serious noticable nerfs, but I can still play. Asking for another monk nerf is selfish. Concentrate on your own problems.

There sure is a god-damned boatload of crybabies now. Whatever happened to just sucking it up?

[Carinth]

Oh good god, I thought we were done with this. I love the "monks must suffer" attitude people get. Monks must have handicaps and be a royal pain in the ass to play before you're happy. I've ripped apart point and click arguments so many times, I lost count. It's always someone who either doesn't play a monk at all or doesn't play a monk competatively. Unless you really play a competative monk, you won't know all the crap monks hafta put up with that gun users don't. We've had huge handicaps placed on us, even so far as crippling the hybrids, just to appease the gun users. The worst thing is half of the handicaps are bugs!

Here's a off the top of my head listing of Monk Combat penalties, some of these match gun penalties, some are just for balance, and others are bugs:

1) Slopes of a certain angle will cause you to fizzle until you move to a more suitable geometry.
2) Your ammo has a downtime during which you must wait for it to regen. The wait time is dependant on how close you are to capping your psi pool's capacity.
3) Boosters help, but still there is a definitly downtime before you're ready to cast again. Especialy with the higher casting cost spells.
4) Our Ammo regen "Boosters", stack to a max of 3 per quickbelt slot. These do not auto reload, you must stop, open rpos, refill your belt slots with new boosters, then close rpos and continue on. This downtime is biggest cause of Monk death.
5) There is a delay between targeting someone and clicking to sucesfuly start the spell casting. This delay is the time it takes for the targeting box to appear and for an impulse to travel from your eye to brain, be interpreted, and then sent to your hand to click. This doesn't sound like very long, but during that time the target can and will have moved. If you happen to be running, this makes it even more difficult to keep your target on the person.
6) Now you may say, you hafta do the same thing with guns, but thats not true. With a gun you hafta keep a target within sites for say 5 seconds. As long as your cursor is close enough to the target, it counts. With psi, you must be not only one the target, but you must also be in position to have a targeting box come up. The targeting box displays your name, etc. On many, the area that will trigger a targeting box is much smaller then where you aim with a gun. Drones can be awful at this, while anyone wearing PA on the other hand is easier to target. It's entirely possible to target a drone but not get a box until you've found the exact right position.
7) When you misscast a psi spell, you fizzle. Fizzle eats up psi, forcing you to wait, and also takes time to do the fizzle animation.
8) You can not switch to a spell unless you have enough psi pool to cast it. If you use a psi booster and try equipping a spell knowing you can use it in a second, you will not be able to cast it nomatter what. Your psi can regen up and the damn thing will refuse to cast. You must swap to another spell, and then swap back in order to make it work.
9) Under certain circumstances, ppu spells go through the motions of casting a spell but don't actualy cast it. Often this is when you're being shot by 6 people, shocked, boosted, and have just been debuffed.
10) Range is not clearly defined, you must guess how far "55 meters" means ingame. If you try to cast on a target that is out of your range, you fizzle.
11) How many weapons do you carry? An apu carries maybe half a dozen, a ppu carries a dozen or more. A hybrid hasta carry both.
12) How many non rare weapons do you use? Monks often hafta use non rares, which means they rely on high slottage.
13) In terms of risk in combat, noone risks more then a Monk. The single safe slot is hardly enough for all the valuables we carry. Of the monks the ppu is the worst. A ppu never drops armor, once in a while they might drop PA, they never drop booster's, they will always drop spells. That's not a Crahn Heal, that's a 4slot Holy Heal.

I know there's lots more, but I'm drawin a blank now. If you want to get a taste of monk aiming, the simplest thing you can do is make a monk and try to kill a dragonfly, one of the small versions. Or in the pepper park sewers, try to kill the flying black cockroaches. They're small, they move fast, and they move erradicly. If you want the most difficult monk aiming though, be a ppu monk and try healing a friendly tank while he's circle straifing around an identicly PA'd enemy tank.Oh yea, that's while you're being shot and debuffed ; )

[Indrid Cold]

THANK YOU Carinth.

p.s. Why did you let all those nerfs happen while I was gone?

[naimex]

A LOT OF WISE WORDS



Nicely said.

[Shadow Dancer]

THANK YOU Carinth.

p.s. Why did you let all those nerfs happen while I was gone?


Which nerfs do you disagree with?

[Kenjuten]

lol, I agree, respect. :cool:

[jiga]

and while ur at it why don't you give melee tanks rets as well :rolleyes:

[jernau]

I agree aps should get ret. I don't see the point in PPUs getting ret though. Who thinks ppus should get ret? :D


APU ret should determine damage, instead of it being completely random. That way the skill-less ones can't get lucky and score 3-4 high end hits just because of randomness.

I also don't think this would go a "Long way" towards balancing monks. PPU is the center problem IMO. Their shields, their buffs, their importance.Still reading through the thread but SD is bang on. Just replace random-damage with reticle-size-related-damage and give APU spells a reticle. I would also apply this to Heals, Shelters, Deflectors and Para.

[Clownst0pper]

Jernau, I find that laughable

Not only did u pass by Carinths brilliant points, but ur a fucking droner, who has no reticle and instant lock. Oh w8 but thats different o_O
While were at it, lets give melee a reticle because thats over powered and they can hit things round corners, as well as running full speed, with run cast heal, and and and and its going to get a boost and be over powered and I want that nerfing as well because someone killed me as I wasnt good enough to kill them and and and.
/set rant_off

[tomparadox]

Originally Posted by Carinth


A LOT OF WISE WORDsQUOTE]


(sorry for takeing your idia for the quote but i got lazy :/)

@ Carinth- Nicely said...


[QUOTE]Still reading through the thread but SD is bang on. Just replace random-damage with reticle-size-related-damage and give APU spells a reticle. I would also apply this to Heals, Shelters and Deflectors.

ohh man not you again :rolleyes: ... i thought i lost you in the lom post :p... dunno why but i seem to strongly disagree with most of the idias i see you state... ( dont take that personaly please...)

[jernau]

Jernau, I find that laughable

Not only did u pass by Carinths brilliant points, but ur a fucking droner, who has no reticle and instant lock. Oh w8 but thats different o_O
I did say I hadn't finished reading yet ;). The topic has come up before though and that was my opinion last time it was raised. I'll tell you in a few mins if anything has changed.

Also I haven't played my droner much in months.

[jiga]

Jernau, I find that laughable

Not only did u pass by Carinths brilliant points, but ur a fucking droner, who has no reticle and instant lock. Oh w8 but thats different o_O
While were at it, lets give melee a reticle because thats over powered and they can hit things round corners, as well as running full speed, with run cast heal, and and and and its going to get a boost and be over powered and I want that nerfing as well because someone killed me as I wasnt good enough to kill them and and and.
/set rant_off
im sure that you could have worked out that my opinion about monks is that they aren't overpowered nor can they exploit

[Clownst0pper]

im sure that you could have worked out that my opinion about monks is that they aren't overpowered nor can they exploit

I assure u they certainly can, but we wont go into that ;)

ANYWAY!

3 out of my 5 capped chars are non reticle users - APU/Droner/Melee tank

Now I know for a fact, possibly the most deadly class in the game right now is a droner, 2 droners combined are devastating, so much so countless times myself and abner have killed entire clans over and over @ CRP.

Do they deserve a reticle? Nope.

Do Melee tanks deserve one when they get a dmg increase, even tho they have brilliant abilities? Nope.

And APU's or PPU's? Nope. Ive yet to see a good argument for a reticle the whole "it will make it so the tighter the reticle, the more dmg"

So let me get this straight, how often when ur fighting with a rifle/Cannon/Pistol is the reticle 100% closed? That be a never. Its impossible, in that sense, an APU will NEVER reach his dmg cap.

And what about if the reticle isnt closed, are u going to make it so the HL slams into the ground beside the Player?

Or what about the distance the reticle closses at? 200meters? Then it defeats the object.

The idea is ludicrous

[jernau]

Tom, didn't Nid give you a big enough hint in that thread that you were talking out your arse? Wake up man.

Wrt Carinth's post - Everything he says is true. IMO though a damage-related reticle would improve APUs not nerf them. Show me an APU that thinks random-damage is a good idea. Please, just show me one.... This way APUs have control over their damage potential.

[Clownst0pper]

Or jernau to save 99% of the hassle.

Reducing the dmg ceiling on the HL, and raise the lowest ceiling.

Effectivly bringing into some sort of order. Say the highest dmg being 100 and the lowest being 80 to an unbuffed player :rolleyes: #

However u callculate the jargon :lol:

[jernau]

Or jernau to save 99% of the hassle.

Reducing the dmg ceiling on the HL, and raise the lowest ceiling.

Effectivly bringing into some sort of order. Say the highest dmg being 100 and the lowest being 80 to an unbuffed player :rolleyes: #

However u callculate the jargon :lol:
Well that would help the random problem but I assume KK brought it in for a reason.... Well maybe they did.... OK I have no idea what they were thinking but this might at least be a compromise.

I wouldnt see the reticle having a big effect - maybe 20% as you say. Just enough to give a more skilled or better set-up character an advantage. Spells would still hit with a fully open reticle they would just be slightly less effective. Maybe I wasn't clear on that part on this occasion but it's an old topic after all.

[Clownst0pper]

Perhaps with the TL changes the HL's random dmg will be altered.

As the fire apoc remains constant within say 20 dmg or so.

I was always curious as the why the HL wasnt a constant dmg, say, always 100 dmg on an unbuffed, no resist player. o_O :confused:

[reddog]

If you give monks a reticule then give em run cast straight away. As for now a monk need to have his psu and APU/PPU set to a high number to be able to runcast the higher TL spells. While a Rifle user can shoot while running an hit once he got a decent lock. this no matter how high low his wep lore is. tho the weplore will reduce the lock time. i considere the fizzle chance of a spell as having the equivalent effect as the reticle. tho there should be done summit to the randomness of the dmg a spell does. i'm not sure a reticule would solve the problem.

[Shadow Dancer]

Clown you think HL damage is too high? I think it's fine now.

[Clownst0pper]

Um, not really shadow, I just dont like how stupid it can go.

As i say, ive hit a fully buffed H-C tank, who i know has a brill con setup for 140+ before, and the next hit him for 22.

Id rather have it constantly at say 100, and loose the varied dmg, than the off chance I might get a mega dmg hit. :rolleyes:

[Scikar]

Shadow's idea is spot on. I'm sure every decent APU out there has cursed their luck every so often when they hit 5 HLs in a row and only do 100 damage. It doesn't make sense for PPUs so they don't need it, though it could work for parashock only.

@Carinth: I agree with your points for the most part, bar a few:

5+6) The point where you get a reticle and when the target box is the same. Also aiming at its highest level is not about reacting quickly, it's also about predicting. If you can predict when the enemy will fall under your crosshair, you can click at that point and know you will hit. In UT2k4 for example, I hit more often with the shock rifle by sweeping my crosshair across the target and clicking as they come together. Also it was proved, that though the actual HUD box itself is larger on people with PA, the actual point where the box appears and when your reticle begins to close is the same as when the char takes the PA off.

7) When you miss a burst with a gun, you also have to wait. On weapons with low RoF, e.g. Silent Hunter, this is very much apparent.

8) This is because the spell actually begins casting serverside. You can switch, wait for mana, then cast, but if you try to cast any spell without enough mana, you have to wait the standard cast time before you can attempt again. To see why this happens, it's easiest with a PPU and another char. Use up all your mana on the PPU with heals, then switch to rez and cast. On the PPU's screen, nothing happens, but the other person sees the PPU start to cast rez.

11) An APU can get by with 3, antibuff/shield, toxic beam, and HL/FA. The barrels are for the most part not worthwhile, and there isn't much reason to carry HL and FA together when HL > FA for the most part anyway. At OP wars, you end up with 4, HL, FA, toxic beam, antibuff. Possibly a barrel thrown in but almost never used. Hybrids don't have it too badly either, the defensive spells are no different to a PE's defensive spells, 3 buffs, S/D/H. Blessed hybrids certainly have no problems with only one reasonable offensive spell, the APU-esque hybrids could have trouble though. A key benefit of a blessed hybrid is that none of the spells are rares. PPUs though I can agree, they do have the least available space.

12) It's far easier to get a load of TPCs made until you get a 3/4/5 slotter than it is to get all the parts to a CS, and add in the fact a 0 slotted one is useless, and a 1 slotter with low freq is going to be a pain in the ass to use.

13) The PPU has it the worst here, again, but I don't think APUs are any worse off than say, Tanks. AoE is always a secondary weapon for a Tank so if you want to use it you risk losing it. 1/2 the time a Tank drops armor, which is going to cost ~30k for boots, ~40k for helmet/pants and 200k+ for PA. Spies risk dropping stealth tools, PA, and heavy belts, plus if they carry SH it can't be used very well up close, so they also either restrict themselves or risking dropping their secondary weapon.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there are no problems with monks, but I'm fairly neutral in this and don't see the point in exaggerating from either perspective.

One point I might add is that the so called 'corner exploit' for APUs is merely a result of the cast time. It could be easily solved by making the cast time instant like a gun, but I doubt that would go down very well. There are many other practices which are far worse, though I see them rarely enough not to warrant mentioning here.

[Carinth]

Most exploits in monk targeting are a result of clipping problems. For example sometimes you can target a person even though they're behind an object, because their box extends out farther then the object. Other times it's because for whatever reason, the object is transparent and allows the targeting box to appear even though you dont have los. Monks use this to their advantage to kill mobs, targeting a Grim Reaper thats around the corner or a Warbot on the other side of a hill.

[Gestra]

Monks > than all tbh though.

[tomparadox]

Tom, didn't Nid give you a big enough hint in that thread that you were talking out your arse? Wake up man.

Wrt Carinth's post - Everything he says is true. IMO though a damage-related reticle would improve APUs not nerf them. Show me an APU that thinks random-damage is a good idea. Please, just show me one.... This way APUs have control over their damage potential.

off topic: dose it look like i cair? sens you cant take a joke atlest he shut you up in that thread... ill be the first of us to say lets jest end this now and not turn into some kinda flam thing...

anyway. i dont mind the randome damage. if your skilled its not that bad. stick the rectical idia on the test server and see how it gos. atlest itl be something to do...

[Ezekial Stone]

I wouldn't go so far as to say monks need a reticle...but something definatly needs to be done about the fact that monks don't need line of site to target or hit you.

If I am standing behind a wall, out of view of anyone, they shouldn't be able to hit me...that's the point of using cover to fight. Monks seem to be the only ones who don't have to switch to AoE to attack someone around a corner or behind a wall.

[jernau]

off topic: dose it look like i cair? sens you cant take a joke atlest he shut you up in that thread... ill be the first of us to say lets jest end this now and not turn into some kinda flam thing...Well you dragged it into another thread after Nid told you that everything you said was wrong and closed that thread so yes I do think you care about whatever it is you are on about. If you want to jest I suggest being funny not offensive.


anyway. i dont mind the randome damage. if your skilled its not that bad. stick the rectical idia on the test server and see how it gos. atlest itl be something to do...That makes sense. TS hasn't had a patch in months, why not try it out and see what people think?

[tomparadox]

That makes sense. TS hasn't had a patch in months, why not try it out and see what people think?

exactly.

[Biznatchy]

Most exploits in monk targeting are a result of clipping problems. For example sometimes you can target a person even though they're behind an object, because their box extends out farther then the object. Other times it's because for whatever reason, the object is transparent and allows the targeting box to appear even though you dont have los. Monks use this to their advantage to kill mobs, targeting a Grim Reaper thats around the corner or a Warbot on the other side of a hill.

So after all this your admitting the monk aiming is an exploit, after all your windbagging to defend your uber monks, it is an exploit.

[Carinth]

So after all this your admitting the monk aiming is an exploit, after all your windbagging to defend your uber monks, it is an exploit.

lol....

Lets see, where do we begin. You are mixing issues here. You start with monks ability to shoot around objects and from there expand to monk aiming in general as point and click. Based on that you want to "make it fair" by giving monks an aiming system just like gun users do. So, I responded by pointing out all the different penalties in the monk system which overall do balance it in comparison to gun aiming. If you want to give monks a reticle, you will have to take off all the other handicaps and penalties, because they will nolonger be necessary... Or give gun users similar extra penalties, either way they hafta be fair right : p Then I agree with you that the ability to shoot around and sometimes through objects is not fair at all. But it has nothing to do with a reticicle or not. It's a flaw in the game which can be fixed regardless of monk aiming. It shouldn't be hard to fix clipping problems, to fix how the targeting box works. There's no justification for a reticle based on an unrelated bug.

Let me give you an example. If you had yourself a copbot gun that worked like the wacky one the npc's use, and let you shoot without los. It would be something like the area your reticle locks in on is larger then normal. So even though they're behind a corner, you can still target the empty space right next to them as if they were there. Would you:

A) Fix the reticle on that gun so that it doesn't have such a large field and more accurately depicts the person's body.
B) Remove all copbot rifles from the game.
C) Move all guns over to a more complex aiming system involving available light, or somthing else like that.

Why don't we just fix the clipping problem? Why don't we just fix the targeting box behavior? Why do monks need a reticle?

[Kenjuten]

Hm...

Lemme throw this out: Why do monks NOT need a recticle?



((I know, I know, lemme finish. :D ))

What if the recticle was there, but depending on how closed the recticle'd be, if you let the target lose focus, you'd still be able to make a 'hit' within a certain period of time.

Example: Train a lock on a teammate. If trained for a long time, then it would last a few seconds even after you lose sight/lock of the person. That way you could buff/heal them without having a constant lock on them.

Example: Train a lock on a person. The name of the game is to avoid lock-on as much as possible. If the lock-on is completed and kept for an amount of time, if you lose contact, you can still cast your HL and fry someone. Stealth exempted, I suppose.

I believe it'd be nice because 1.) You don't really have much time to lock-on before/during OP wars, so you can't really cheese it, and 2.) If you allow an APU to lock onto you you're dead meat anyway.

I understand that Parashock would be an issue with my idea...therefore I'm thinking as if it doesn't exist. :)

I think this idea presents concentration/mind/psychism a lot better than working without a recticle.

[Loyd]

hmm lemme guess the person that strted tyhis bitch thread got smoked by an apu?, [ edited ] apus are weak as shit the only way an apu can stay alive is to kill whoever is attcking them before they get hit lemme guess next bitch thread is gonan be bout puting reticles on melee tanks huh? how bout getsomeskills

[hivemind]

This is an online RPG based on player statistics not quake 3 arena
Yeah, too bad.

I want Planetside with stats and items... :D :D :D :D

EDIT: Gee Loyd, we're all so glad you could stop by the forums and dazzle us with your wit and wisdom.

Someone give him his ritalin please...