Communication

[John_Ravenhawk]

So i was reading a few of the other threads and I came to a conclusion..

It does not matter what we want or what we don't want the only thing we
can totally be sure of is that KK will not tell us anything useful.

They tell there Mods here to close threads that might get the community
talking about the problems. The GMS which we have no real idea how many
there are or who they all are don't seem to be working. If they are having
problems in RL then KK needs to get more people who want to do the job
working at helping the playerbase..

Why doesn't KK make some temporary GM's or trial GM's people who have ideas for some events and let us do some of the work if they can't get off of
the DOY code and the so called next patch to make this game interesting
again.

Last thing have you ever looked at how many missions everquest players
can do.. They have taken out more quests than have ever been in Neocron.

[Gotterdammerung]

We don't close threads "that might get the community
talking about the problems." unless they degenerate into flaming & trolling. More often then not we leave them open as discussion is healthy.

As for gm's, they are people just like you, they were and still are players of the game. They know whats going on and they do their job, taking care of trouble tickets.

We are all smart and inteligent people and are well aware of things in and out of game. If you have ideas as to events you want to see happen please avail yourself of all the assets available. Post your ideas in brain port or the world events forum and develop a dialog with the relevent people about what you want to see. You have to understand how things work, you can't just say to yourself "I can't be asked to do all that, just make me a trial gm and I'll show them" because thats not how things work. Take the time and make the effort, put your thoughts into words and try but if you want something to happen be a little proactive, they aren't mind readers after all.

p.s. and feel free to apply for a trial gm position if you see fit

[Geth]

p.s. and feel free to apply for a trial gm position if you see fit

O_o First I ever heard of this!

[Kenjuten]

Trial GM has been around for awhile....must not have been thoroughly advertised. I myself didn't know about it except from a few random and obscure posts I've seen since I've been here.

(Interesting parallel between the advertising of Neocron and the advertising of the Trial GMs...no offense.)

[yavimaya]

We don't close threads "that might get the community
talking about the problems." unless they degenerate into flaming & trolling. More often then not we leave them open as discussion is healthy.

As for gm's, they are people just like you, they were and still are players of the game. They know whats going on and they do their job, taking care of trouble tickets.

We are all smart and inteligent people and are well aware of things in and out of game. If you have ideas as to events you want to see happen please avail yourself of all the assets available. Post your ideas in brain port or the world events forum and develop a dialog with the relevent people about what you want to see. You have to understand how things work, you can't just say to yourself "I can't be asked to do all that, just make me a trial gm and I'll show them" because thats not how things work. Take the time and make the effort, put your thoughts into words and try but if you want something to happen be a little proactive, they aren't mind readers after all.

p.s. and feel free to apply for a trial gm position if you see fit

Here Here!! i agree totally.

WEll, except for the first part about only ones that are going to/ have degenerated being closed... after all, Nidhogg will close this AS SOON as he sees it, i guarentee it.... he will also edit this out of my post! i guarentee that too!
i have seen far, far too many threads closed after 2-3 replies, if people even got a chance to reply that is...

But you should not attack the GM's, the Admin, maybe, but i feel sorry for them already, I dont feel they deserve it either. They will soon enough be out of a job, and company to work for...

They work their fucking arses off on a game... and the only reason it collapses is originally having a very bad publisher, and now because of bad Management and High level Corporates...
It's not the GM's or the Mod's faults!

[Nidhogg]

Here Here!! i agree totally.

WEll, except for the first part about only ones that are going to/ have degenerated being closed... after all, Nidhogg will close this AS SOON as he sees it, i guarentee it.... he will also edit this out of my post! i guarentee that too!

Oh yeah? :p

BTW, a trial GM is simply a trainee GM on a month's evaluation period. Anyone who applies to be a GM will go through that stage - there's no secrecy involved. ;)

N

[John_Ravenhawk]

Thanks for the info..

[Jesterthegreat]

We don't close threads "that might get the community
talking about the problems." unless they degenerate into flaming & trolling. More often then not we leave them open as discussion is healthy.




I've said before that I'm going to close any more doom-sayer threads, so...

N


hmm...

[Dirk_Gently]

Y'see I just don't get all of this stuff because I've always found the GMs to be really good.


Maybe I've just been lucky.

[Jesterthegreat]

Y'see I just don't get all of this stuff because I've always found the GMs to be really good.


Maybe I've just been lucky.


not once in your 29 post carreer? :D

just do a search for "mod*" (i think the * is still needed, im not sure if the updated forum allows searches of less than 4 letters, but the old one needed the * as a wildcard) to see what people think of the way the mods act here :)

[Nidhogg]

No thread is exempt from the forum rules regardless of how worthy it may seem. If there's already a similar thread then the new one will be closed or merged and there are already plenty of "doom-sayer" threads to choose from. ;)

N

[Dirk_Gently]

not once in your 29 post carreer? :D

just do a search for "mod*" (i think the * is still needed, im not sure if the updated forum allows searches of less than 4 letters, but the old one needed the * as a wildcard) to see what people think of the way the mods act here :)

Did I use the word Mod???? I was talking about my experiences with GMs in my rather extensive NC career.

If you check back the original post was also about GMs :wtf:

Edit: OK well as extensive as it reasonably could be.

[Jesterthegreat]

No thread is exempt from the forum rules regardless of how worthy it may seem. yes but the rules only work as to how the mods inturprit them... then when anyone argues "the mods word is final"

If there's already a similar thread then the new one will be closed or merged and there are already plenty of "doom-sayer" threads to choose from. ;)

N


I've said before that I'm going to close any more doom-sayer threads, so...

N

you close future ones... so we can use old ones? oh no wait, reserecting old threads is against the rules too...

so no making threads pointing out what the community thinks may lead to the downfall of NC and making suggestions on how to get around this, and no posting in old threads.


and no similar threads... O_o wtF?

"sorry that post looks kinda like that one - closed"

if we cant post in old threads, and cant make new ones about it, how will the people who arent here all day everyday get to discuss what they want?

say this thread is on page 2 tomorrow. person A didnt go on forum today, but he has a comment tommorw when he sees it. he cant ressurect the thread, he cant post a new one about it... effectively he is told that no one cares what his opinion is... these forums are a race to say what you can before each thread breaks some rule :rolleyes:


:edit: @Dirk, then do a search for GM, the community has a near identicle opinion of them, maybe even worse

[brackk]

Moderation on this board is some of the best i have ever seen. I prefer theads being closed to the rampant flaming and baseless acusations that i see starting in many threads.

One good example is fenix's acct stolen thread where dozens of people in that thread jumped to accuse KK of programing problems and server vulnerability. 6 pages into the thread a mod releases info that more or less PROVES the fault was customer based. Several people in the following posts have said good job but i have yet to see anyone appologize for any of the earlier baseless, inane and WRONG accusations against KK.

[Jesterthegreat]

Moderation on this board is some of the best i have ever seen. I prefer theads being closed to the rampant flaming and baseless acusations that i see starting in many threads.

One good example is fenix's acct stolen thread where dozens of people in that thread jumped to accuse KK of programing problems and server vulnerability. 6 pages into the thread a mod releases info that more or less PROVES the fault was customer based. Several people in the following posts have said good job but i have yet to see anyone appologize for any of the earlier baseless, inane and WRONG accusations against KK.

i would love to hear their excuse for why i have been hacked 3 times without ever sharing my details... but KK never gave me a reason. they just said sorry... and we arent replacing anything

i have a right to be pissed at KK, even if in that case it wasnt their fault... i know mine wasn't my fault O_o any of the 3 times

[Kenjuten]

KK has already explained why they currently can't/won't help hacked accounts...it isn't because "it's your fault" really, regardless of whose fault it really is.

In the future it might change tho, so. :)

[Marx]

p.s. and feel free to apply for a trial gm position if you see fitMy applications are always ignored, not even a nice "we got your application - but you suck, so no".

:p

So I just write stuff for Neocronicle and NeMa instead.

:(

[John_Ravenhawk]

maybe they don't want any help fixing the problems it is much
easier to ignore the players until we all decide to leave..

[XSuneX]

I think what some are trying to say is,

Hey KK, here is a friendly reminder,

have 24/7 stinking events or were gonna go and not come back.

And since we are examples of the rest of the comunity present and future,

Hay it's up to you KK,

I guess you realy don't want to make too much money do ya?

[John_Ravenhawk]

They need to get their people together with the GMS and suggest events
that they can run... Help them organize them and train them approriately.

[-FN-]

I think what a lot of the people's gripe is the same thing that I have going through my head all the time...

Where the hell are my pants?

Er, no I mean, this:

Yes, it's understandable that if a company wants to keep their internal production to themselves, they can do so; especially when you're producing a new product for the market. However, as a member of the dwindling population of a group of customers that pay for an existing service and product, I feel *very* in the dark, and I think many others do too. Couple that with the latest news of delays and whatnot, how can anyone expect that your 'clients', whom are getting bad news about the upcoming product, and NO news about the existing product, with no word of progress or tentative patches, to think anything but the worst? It's not a question of whether there really is patch progress or DoY progress (I'm optimistic and hope that each day there is), but there is virtually little to no reassurance with any of it. And the relationship between clients and the KK/GM/Mod side is just a constant grinding relationship because of this. We want to see Neocron prosper, we being both sides. If we as clients didn't, we wouldn't be here :p well, those of us who are.

It's been 45 days since the last patch which broke a number of things. The only reply we get here from our only source of 'Official' news is "when it's done". DoY is now pushed up and it's really, really hard for even me, to justify staying on board these days with Pluto going into single digits during my main play hours (I work 2nd Shift EST).

A .plan updated weekly to convey to the dwindling customer base "hey, we're working on this and this", would improve the relations between the two grinding side ten fold and, in my opinion, is incredibly more professional than the cloak and dagger routine of "we're working on it, shut up and pay your money" routine that, from our end, we feel like we're receiving. The details of when it'll be out, or whether it'll be retail or test, those things aren't so important, but the assurance that the coders of KK are truly working towards some goals is. I don't care if it's redoing Drom textures or something stupid, at least if KK has goals, and we know that, it gives us a reason to stay and see how it turns out. Right now, KK could have 10 coders working hard or 1 coder making new RP food names. I personally don't care either way, but I would just like to know that the KK coders, regardless of who or how many, are working on getting features X, Y, and Z ready for the next test/retail patch, ETA unknown. But while I'm playing, I can at least have it in my head that while I'm in-game, the money I'm paying monthly is going towards some concept of progress and it's worth me sticking around for.

Lack of updates is tolerable to an extent. Lack of information is what makes the first lack more or less tolerable.

Like I said tho, the bottom line is it's a company's perogative to interact with their clients. If KK wants to leave us with little to no details and expect their unpaid volunteers, the GMs and Mods, to handle the brunt of the public, that's their choice, good or bad.

But you see the direction of the server populations. You see the let-down tone of many of the threads. You see the increased number of goodbye threads. I'm not trying to be opinionated, because shit, I'm STILL HERE and STILL PLAYING, but those are facts. I think the lack of public assurance is more of a killer to playerbase than the actual product. 10T's statement was the only thing that kept me here the day I learned of the DoY delay. They had many assuring reasons, even if it was a political-feeling statement (meaning a lot of words with not too much content :p), but they did put forth a few reasons that I could see myself agreeing with.

KK, give the better public correspondence idea a little attention... I was serious about the weekly .plan update.

[yavimaya]

I agree, as far as i can see, Reakktor and its parent company really and truely do HATE us.

It's not just a matter of disrespect, if it was then they would still atleast give us some updates, they would just be spiteful about it.

I really dont care if they hate us, but how about they start to treat us like humans, and not mushrooms?

[John_Ravenhawk]

I would rather look on the website and see in the next patch
we are doing this and that instead of seeing nothing..

They really do need to learn how to communicate with the population
as little as it becomes.

[Carinth]

Where's the info on applyin to be a trial gm? I'm just curious. Back ages ago when I actualy cared enough about the game to want to help out as a gm, the only mention of it was an application to be a kk employee. I was excited until I read "Must speak German and Must be able to move to Hannover, Germany". Let's just say I didn't love the game enough to move to a foreign country and learn a new language ; )

[Scikar]

We'll have a few Testserver patches over the next couple of weeks, the retail patch containing the fix for MC5 will hit the severs shortly after the test patches are done.

Amazing how much info you can find from reading threads isn't it?

[Birkoff]

A friend aplied for a trial and got told that there are alreayd to many about, haven't seen a GM, except Mercuri (sex) in ages. We had a "event" in PP a few weeks back.. jsut a normal spawn kill the shit we have spawned and be happy event.

We got all these data cubes back in about september from a near the city exit. Were they ever needed for anything other than filling up cabnet space?

[John_Ravenhawk]

Again i say check out that calendar and see the extended events they are planning for us..

[Heavyporker]

how'd I look up for trial GM??? I wanna see if I'm eligible.... not that I'd actually volunteer *looks shifty*

[IceStorm]

have 24/7 stinking events or were gonna go and not come back.
Why? I've been involved in a grand total of TWO events in the whole history of Neocron, one in pre-Beta 4 which was a load test for Plaza 1 and the close-of-Pluto event. I've seen tail ends of two other events (one some sort of run through the safezones, the other was a PP event). Beyond that, I'm simply not logged in at the time the events take place. Oddly enough, it has zero impact on my desire to play the game...

how'd I look up for trial GM??? I wanna see if I'm eligible.... not that I'd actually volunteer
I was asked to apply for the GM position a while back (close to a year, if I had to guess). I never heard anything back from anyone, which I found odd considering someone close to KK said I should apply. It's fine with me at this point - more time for me to do other things than NC while we all wait for BDOY to arrive.

I have no problems with the GMs in NC. It takes a while for a response, but hey, I don't expect snappy English-language support at 3am EST.

[John_Ravenhawk]

The only gm contact i have ever had was a day after the request and they
couldn't help anyway.

[___T-X____]

great thread.

[Celt]

I wish the mods wouldnt close every thread asking for server specific out of game forums.

Every reason they've given has been refuted thoroughly, but they give them still.


>.>

[Dirk_Gently]

:edit: @Dirk, then do a search for GM, the community has a near identicle opinion of them, maybe even worse

Well then I must say that I have filled in help tickets on a number of occasions (comfortably into double figures) in the 18 months or so that I have been playing and always have had a useful reply within 24 hours.

So i still don't understand that one.

[james_finn]

I have numerous encounters with GMs within the last 2 years that I have been playing NC, all the help tickets I have placed have been answered within 24 hours max, and even sometimes I will return to the game later on and find a e-mail from a GM answering the particular question.

Also my account was hacked, and I managed to get a two GM's on within 10 minutes of me being unable to log in beacuse someone was already on (the hacker) and this was *excellent* customer service.

Personally I say hats off to the good GMs of KK

and stop the GM bashing please, some of them are volunteers

Delphi

[Aziraphale]

and stop the GM bashing please, some of them are volunteers

Delphi

Lol, and some are tied to their PC's and driven by whips? :eek:

Anyway, GM's do a great job guys, stop whining.

[Jesterthegreat]

Well then I must say that I have filled in help tickets on a number of occasions (comfortably into double figures) in the 18 months or so that I have been playing and always have had a useful reply within 24 hours.

So i still don't understand that one.

well arent we the lucky one :p

i personally dontthik i have ever had a reply in 24 hours...

and i know there are other people out there with the same opinion of the support staff / GM's. especially a certain 1 o_O

[John_Ravenhawk]

i retired from the game due to the lack of events and gm support..

IF you are listening KK.. Look to COH and see how a mission driven game
is made they know what they are doing.

[Jesterthegreat]

i retired from the game due to the lack of events and gm support..

IF you are listening KK.. Look to COH and see how a mission driven game
is made they know what they are doing.


without getting this closed as a leaving thread:

sorry to see you go. I am PIMP on Pluto but never play there.

KK need to stop looking at the indevidual here.

It's easy to say "ok we saw 4 people leave in the last week, but we know we had 10 new subscribers" or some crap... but those 4 are the well known eople that announced quitting. people are leaving all the time.

tbh we all hate the bugs. we all hate the fatals. we all hate the CTD's. however i know for me the worst thing is KK not even accnoledging any problems. a little "we are working on this, but our initial ideas came up blank so it may take another week or two to get it sortd" would go a long way.

no player base likes to be kept i the dark

[Clownst0pper]

And how do you apply to be a GM? :(

[Jesterthegreat]

And how do you apply to be a GM? :(


they tell you you can... but not how

clever eh? :)

[/conspiricy]

[Nidhogg]

Email gmjobs@neocron.com

Applications are treated in batches so you may not get an immediate reply.

N

[Original monk]

And how do you apply to be a GM? :(

i applied some time ago when there was a thread asking for aplicants ... i didnt even got a response ... nothing like: thank you for youre participation but you didnt make it to the list due to ... and then atleast some explenation ...

but nothing ...

im glad now i didnt got accepted, think GMing here is quiet a timeconsuming activity :) and i noticed they dont get alot of respect ...

have fun and think twice before you aply clowstopper, think about the fact that ya gotta start being a good boy as soon youre in :P no more whining on how KK fixes all there ingame situations :P (meaning nerfs, adyustments, balancing etc ..)

GL

[J. Folsom]

I applied for a GM position once, I thought my application was great! I mean, it had "I WANNA BECOME A GM TO PWN NIBS!", and "IN THAT SITAUATION, I WOULD PWN HIS WHINY LITTLE ASS!", or answers like that on every line! It was ingenious!

(Disclaimer: The above post is a joke, and is not meant to be taken seriously, nor is it meant as an indirect statement of J. Folsom's opinion on the GM team.)

[MkVenner]

ive only eva been forced to ask for a GM once and it wasnt exactly swift. and ive NEVEr seen one ingame (cept once during that event above the NC Gates).

KK need to give us a little more info, be it a few words or a couple of paragraphs. I wanted to apply as a GM a while back but i couldnt coz im only 17, and now i dont really wanna be a GM lol...

[Original monk]

I applied for a GM position once, I thought my application was great! I mean, it had "I WANNA BECOME A GM TO PWN NIBS!", and "IN THAT SITAUATION, I WOULD PWN HIS WHINY LITTLE ASS!", or answers like that on every line! It was ingenious!

(Disclaimer: The above post is a joke, and is not meant to be taken seriously, nor is it meant as an indirect statement of J. Folsom's opinion on the GM team.)

you cant be a GM to spawn warbots next to noobs in the aggysewers folsom, ya cant be a GM to get godmode and start genrepcamping, you cant be a GM to start spawning 8 slotted weapons and trow them around at plaza 1 ...

you also cant be a GM to solo mc5 with a spy using a tangent wasteland eagle with godmode and ya cant be a GM to take revenge if someone PWNED you ...

common folsom think before you post man

(disclaimer: dito as folsom's disclaimer :P)

[MkVenner]

is there a definitive definition of a GMs job?


just wondering

[John_Ravenhawk]

I am not quitting Jester just retiring for a bit..

They have pushed me to a mission oriented game..

I will still play just not as much.