View Full Version : Auto-Lomer ?
where can i get this auto lomer? and is it bad to have... like i wouldnt get banned for useing it, would i? :angel:
you would definatly get a warning if u got caught using it....Ive only heard rumors of it never actually tried to find it
Macros are exploits so in theory yes.
ah fook
now a auto lommer is a good idea grrrr....
Any and all macros are bad.
LoMs are also bad.
A macro to exploit LoMs is about as low as it gets IMO.
but having to lom large amounts sucks.....
eg pure rifle to pure drone o_O thats like a day of my life wasted
Abuse related topic
Closed
-G
<Semi-RelevantAnalogy>
Gunshop Owner: "We've got to run a background check, of a five-day waiting period--"
Homer Simpson: "But I'm mad now!"
</Semi-RelevantAnalogy>
Law is law...If you don't like the way the LoMs work, set up a petition (Hell, I'd sign it myself -- only reason I don't start one myself is that I don't really have enough of my own personal wish to have LoMs be altered.).
In another semi-relevant analogy, if you need money you shouldn't do crime, you should get a job. (Note that this isn't my philosophy/ethics, this is law.)
but having to lom large amounts sucks.....
eg pure rifle to pure drone o_O thats like a day of my life wasted
The idea behind LoM's is to fix small things, not change your life.
Macros are exploits so in theory yes.
LOL!! aww man i dont mean to laugh at you, but its pretty fucking funny.
an "exploit", by all definitions are bugs (things within a program that arent meant to be there) that can be "used" over and over illegally (exploited)
A third party program, is just that, a third party program, not an exploit....
but to put it simply, yea unless the macro program is on an approved third party programs list, you are probably better off not using it.
Where does it say all exploits are bugs?
That's just idiotic. Using anything outside the normal methods of gameplay to gain an advantage is an exploit. It makes no difference whether it's abusing a bug or deliberately altering/augmenting the game with a third-party app.
Please get your facts straight.
John_Ravenhawk
23-04-04, 07:54
If KK can't get off there butts to fix a simple thing like that stupid hovercraft
in Plaza 3 they deserve to be exploited.. It is just wrong that instead of
fixing the exploit they punish a smart player for taking advantage of it..
If its in the game, its in the game..
Yes, and I believe many politicians and war-makers and rich people deserve to be exploited too if able... (Half-sarcastic, my only truth is that I despise Bill Gates. :D Actually, I kind of agree with everything I just said to a certain extent.)
But the law (no, I don't mean American) basically speaks that while the customer may always be right, to attack someone or something in any form is still something that can be countered easily.
(Post Part 2)
John, after reading your post again, I happened to focus on this particular sentence.
It is just wrong that instead of
fixing the exploit they punish a smart player for taking advantage of it..I hope you do realise that the exploiter would gain an unfair advantage. Why should the person not be punished for their actions?
Even if they're for a good cause, if they can't do it by playing the game normally, it's like playing "god" or a facimile thereof (and I should note WITHOUT permission). We can't physically or psychically or time/magician-wise alter our reality....why should we tamper with this universe?
I agree LoM'ing sucks ass, but its not like there is a hell o' lot to do now-a-days in NC. Sitting around chatting is a normal event anyways, so waiting for LoM'ing while talking isn't that bad.
:edit: ambigiously sexual; don't ask.
If KK can't get off there butts to fix a simple thing like that stupid hovercraft
in Plaza 3 they deserve to be exploited.. It is just wrong that instead of
fixing the exploit they punish a smart player for taking advantage of it..
If its in the game, its in the game..
Congratulations!!
The dumbest post of the month, no doubt.
Heh, jernau can be blunter than I am... :p
Honestly, we've had macro discussions on this thread before, and I don't even need to refer to them to state the fact that macros just aren't acceptable unless KK officially supports and acknoledges them in terms of usability in their product.
Until they do so, there's little point to attempt macros, lest you wish to take the risk.
Anyways..I myself am getting quite bored of macro-talk in general. Can this be the end of it for now please? I thought it all died down when the auto-poker thread stopped being replied to. And yes, I'm aware of what the community thinks of it.
Original monk
23-04-04, 09:15
If KK can't get off there butts to fix a simple thing like that stupid hovercraft
in Plaza 3 they deserve to be exploited.. It is just wrong that instead of
fixing the exploit they punish a smart player for taking advantage of it..
If its in the game, its in the game..
yo, that international banking angency didnt fix that chair standing in the main hall ... they deserve to be robbed :P
lol, stig hates it when i give real life examples but its so fun :)
ok john ravenhawk, can you explain the logics behind youre toughts ?
using cheats, macro's and more of that isnt a sign of a smart player ... its the sign of a corupt player ... luckely i know zoomzoom isnt corrupted, but atleast now he knows about macro'ing being not-allowed ..
altough i hate loms (being a hybrid surely changes youre views on certain game aspects) but macroing isnt a solution ... KK should come up with a decent alternative ... fe: superlom that gives 100% synaptic but removes 1 mainskill and releases a complete subskill or sumthing like that
lommacro ? autopoker ? more of that shit = a big NADA, NO, NEIN, NEEN, NON, etc
maggotcorpse
23-04-04, 09:19
Whats better?
- Eat some Pills to make a complete Reskill
or
- Make a new Character?
Think about it :)
Loms suck big time! Thats exactly the way it should be!
I can remember times when someone just lomed form barter to resser to conster and back to fighter. Thats not the way it should be and the loms are there to prvent it. If you take a look at other games the way NC solves the problem it's one of the most liberal solutions. I like the loms the way they are!
Where does it say all exploits are bugs?
That's just idiotic. Using anything outside the normal methods of gameplay to gain an advantage is an exploit. It makes no difference whether it's abusing a bug or deliberately altering/augmenting the game with a third-party app.
Please get your facts straight.
KK doesn't have to tell everyone that exploit equates to "bug".... if it wasnt a bug, there would be "nothing to exploit", therefore a third party program is not an exploit! Do you have to have every game developer tell you what they class as an exploit??
By your theory, "something a player can do to get an unfair advantage"... GR'ing into a hunting zone when all your team members have to walk, is an exploit!! or alternatelly, if i was to buy a hovertec and drive that to the hunting spot when my team members cant afford a car, im exploiting!!
I know this is a bit of an obsurd anallegy, but its perfectly legitimate and right!
By your theory, "something a player can do to get an unfair advantage"... GR'ing into a hunting zone when all your team members have to walk, is an exploit!! or alternatelly, if i was to buy a hovertec and drive that to the hunting spot when my team members cant afford a car, im exploiting!!
You have failed to respect that there is a difference between fair advantage and unfair advantage, as represented by the single fact that if KK didn't want to have something be done, it wouldn't be available within the boundaries of the game.
By macroing you are bending the universe of Neocron to your own will, no matter how small or for what reason.
KK doesn't have to tell everyone that exploit equates to "bug".... if it wasnt a bug, there would be "nothing to exploit", therefore a third party program is not an exploit! Do you have to have every game developer tell you what they class as an exploit??
By your theory, "something a player can do to get an unfair advantage"... GR'ing into a hunting zone when all your team members have to walk, is an exploit!! or alternatelly, if i was to buy a hovertec and drive that to the hunting spot when my team members cant afford a car, im exploiting!!
I know this is a bit of an obsurd anallegy, but its perfectly legitimate and right!
Is there some kind of stupidity competition in this thread?
Both your examples involve effort or expenditure to gain an "advantage" and are therefore valid. Methods that provide that "advantage" without earning it are exploits. Every game I've ever played or heard of uses this definition. Please provide an example where it is otherwise.
Any and all macros are bad.
LoMs are also bad.
A macro to exploit LoMs is about as low as it gets IMO.
i would submit that loms aren't bad. what is bad is the fact that loms are overly necessary due to skill uses and calcs changing all the time; that skills themselves and how they work aren't fully explained anywhere; that constant lomming, reskilling experimentation and lomming and reskilling and...etc.... is necessary to even figure out the basics of how some of them work; and so on, and so forth.
autolomming is bad, macros are bad, but our skillpoint system is too shrouded in mystery (even after all this time) for loms themselves to be considered evil. i would have had to create, from scratch, by main character 10 times over - at least - if loms did not exist. no, wait - i would have quit NC after the first couple of failed attempts actually.
loms - a necessary evil?
The good/bad nature of LoMs is highly debatable.
Personally I don't agree with free-for-all reskilling. I think LoMs should be entirely removed from the game and only re-introduced under controlled conditions when a patch forces players to reskill.
Like you say though the game is in not in a state that supports this yet and so they are indeed a "necessary evil" while the game stays as it is. I don't think that the skill system is as obtuse as you make out anymore but I do know that it could be a lot better and that both the manual and in-game help provide hopelessly incorrect information.
I would like to see more restrictions on LoMs and not less - limit the number you can take or the level you can take them at, massively increase the cost, something like that. Right now LoMs are doing more harm than good because they are covering up many of the games levelling problems (eg rifle aoe, tradeskilling, monk INT and DEX, etc.). If LoMs where removed or at least severely restricted these things would need to be fixed rather than ignored because experienced players work round them and noobs leave in disgust.
Whats better?
- Eat some Pills to make a complete Reskill
or
- Make a new Character?
Think about it :)
Lets see.
1: Will most probabally make you want to cancell your account. (did with me. came back though)
2: Not possible on a 1 character server without reroll. (for some of us who prefere pluto)
an excellent post jernau, i concur particularly with your comments regarding new players and the gaps in xp and levelling opportunities. however i would add the following comments.
i believe the skills system to still be overly obtuse, especially as regards the now multiple penalty/benefit modifications given to PSI subskills. even with it all written down, i'm buggered if i could figure out how to correctly distribute points for a hybrid monk without a good degree of experimentation.
even on my rifle PE, which i have played for nearly 2 years now, much of that time exclusively, i am still tying to figure out the best way to distribute points in dex. we're talking very minor tinkering here - 1 or 2 points moving between AGL and RC, but still it's not an facility i would wish to lose.
for another example of the necessity of loms, look at armour. each time a new armour type is introduced it creates a potential need to move the complementary resists points around. or rare armour - if i should decide my character will ultimately be using titan armour when capped, should i really need to gimp my characters resists until he is either able to use it, or i find a set? and if i should lose that rare armour, what to do until i get it back? and if i had planned on using an MC5 chip, and MC5 was removed from the game?
and then there is the fundamental interconnectedness (to steal a phrase) of everything that one uses in-game. for example - the MOVEON chip is released into the game - i figure this is great for me, but i have to pop my distance weapon chip 3, move points around in dex to compensate somewhat, move points around in CON to redsitribute points saved by the moveon's bonuses, perhaps change my armour now since i have increased STR. and so on.
even adding a new weapon to the game may require a re-think. with specialisation giving such advantages, i might decided to specialise on the terminator when it finally becomes available. i'll potentially need less points in RC, which i might put into AGL, thereby allowing me to reduce ATL somewhat, thereby allowing me to put more into resists. and so on.
the beauty of the game is the flexibility, and one of the joys of this (for me) is the fact that it allows me to constantly tinker. it never gets stale. but the only way to allow all this is the dreaded lom.
sorry to head off topic, BTW. macro still = very bad.
Well hybrids are meant to be hard :). They are hardly recommended or viable as a first character.
On other characters (eg your rifle PE and the armours example) it remains my opinion that you should have to live with your skilling decisions (within reason*). If new armour arrives or you lose yours then you should have to find ways to cope. IMO that makes the game a lot more interesting as everyone doesn't use the same optimal setups all the time. A good setup would then be an adaptable one. Someone who goes all out for god-hood today would be less capable tomorrow and people woud strike different balances whereas now everyone goes for the same setups and it's dull.
We all coped fine before LoMs and the game was better for it. People have become reliant on them and all the joy has gone out of creating a character because of it.
* - by this I mean that if KK changes the rules (not just adding items) they need to let people reskill and also that some form of rare reskill function should be included - eg at certain levels or time intervals.
Without loms all the new players would be screwed.
I rememeber loming a lot on my first char (spy). I wanted to do driving, hacking barter and rifles. You guessed it i had to relom a lot, even in con also.
When you spend weeks on a char it's not that bad to lom half a day while surfing the net :-)
I even cleaned out my office while doing loms.
Clownst0pper
23-04-04, 14:34
We need loms which give no SI but XP loss, dont punish us with both!
Yes, loms without SI would be good.
And as for people arguing someone would go from construtor to op hacker back to constructor...... NOT with the current loss in xp points he won't .
Turning them back into LoLs would be a good start.
Neocron autolommer
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Instructions shown when starting the program.
some form of rare reskill function should be included - eg at certain levels or time intervals.Anarchy Online has this feature for when you get a certain set of per levels...was one of the only things in the game I was taking a comfortable liking to.
Jernau, LoLs? I'm not quite sure what you mean by that -- surprise me. :)
Edit: Though now I think about it I think I know what you meant -- Loss of Levels. lol :D
here ya go
17) You will not create, use or provide any server emulator or other site where NEOCRON may be played, and you will not post or distribute any utilities, emulators or other software tools related to NEOCRON without the express written permission of Reakktor Media.
I'm pretty sure a macro programme for lomming would be under "utilities" or "software tools" naturally related to Neocron, ergo, dont use em.
tomparadox
23-04-04, 23:21
The good/bad nature of LoMs is highly debatable.
Personally I don't agree with free-for-all reskilling. I think LoMs should be entirely removed from the game and only re-introduced under controlled conditions when a patch forces players to reskill.
Like you say though the game is in not in a state that supports this yet and so they are indeed a "necessary evil" while the game stays as it is. I don't think that the skill system is as obtuse as you make out anymore but I do know that it could be a lot better and that both the manual and in-game help provide hopelessly incorrect information.
I would like to see more restrictions on LoMs and not less - limit the number you can take or the level you can take them at, massively increase the cost, something like that. Right now LoMs are doing more harm than good because they are covering up many of the games levelling problems (eg rifle aoe, tradeskilling, monk INT and DEX, etc.). If LoMs where removed or at least severely restricted these things would need to be fixed rather than ignored because experienced players work round them and noobs leave in disgust.
Um, howbout no? i dont know about you but every time i accidently click the rong skill in the window or something i dont whant to half to #1 reroll or #2 live with it, and do you know how long it would take to lvl a pure ppu without being able to cap apu then lom ppu? or almost cap apu...
Yes, loms without SI would be good.
And as for people arguing someone would go from construtor to op hacker back to constructor...... NOT with the current loss in xp points he won't .
that was done, KK got rid of the no SI and added SI because people exploited them and lomed all there resist to say poisen and soloed swamp caves or something...
Um, howbout no? i dont know about you but every time i accidently click the rong skill in the window or something i dont whant to half to #1 reroll or #2 live with it, and do you know how long it would take to lvl a pure ppu without being able to cap apu then lom ppu? or almost cap apu...
Miskeying? That's the best defence you have for such a destructive addition to the game? Just add a confirm dialog whenever you allocate points.
wrt PPU - yes, I've done it and so has another guy in my clan and many others I'm sure. How do you expect KK to take that problem seriously when everyone just dodges round it. Remove LoMs and they would have to fix a lot of issues just to make the game playable.
Neocron autolommer
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Instructions shown when starting the program.
Wow does that thing actually work? I'm sure every one here will use it secretly if it did
EDIT: just tested it with a drug instead of a lom....and it works. Thats gotta be the best the ever
haha, that thing works... Not that i've used it...
Anyway.. This sort of program wouldn't exist if there were a faster way to LoM... I can take the XP hit but 4 minutes for each LoM is jusst a bitch...
haha, that thing works... Not that i've used it...
Anyway.. This sort of program wouldn't exist if there were a faster way to LoM... I can take the XP hit but 4 minutes for each LoM is jusst a bitch...
the basics of the program is pretty simple. It's just like a macro with the following commands in it:
Wait 30
RClick
Wait 1
LClick
Loop
Wow, my little program still pops up every now and again 8|
Wow, my little program still pops up every now and again 8|
All hail NeoLojik :p
Neocron autolommer
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Instructions shown when starting the program.
Wow. Posting this around here is okay for them big bad mods? So macros are acceptable in general?
OMG, somebody make an monk-dex-poking-macro asap and lets all level skills while afk...
man that link is gonna get pwned.....what if they made it so you wouldnt have SI but just lost a lvl each time you ate a pill? and then you could relevel and re distribute the points
.................................................................................
I know it would suck....the XP penalties arent that high for lomming you usually only lose a lvl or 3 (fully capped skill) totally lomming
I dont think current the current XP loss is significant to prevent Lom abuse if the SI were taken off
man that link is gonna get pwned.....what if they made it so you wouldnt have SI but just lost a lvl each time you ate a pill? and then you could relevel and re distribute the points
how would that work if you loose lvl you don't get any pint's, or you sugesting that lom pill would just take lvl off so you can lvl it again and put teh points where you want if so then fuck that cuz leveling 30 lvl's back is way longer that waiting for teh si....
how would that work if you loose lvl you don't get any pint's, or you sugesting that lom pill would just take lvl off so you can lvl it again and put teh points where you want if so then fuck that cuz leveling 30 lvl's back is way longer that waiting for teh si....
That is exactly what LoLs were. If the damn things have to remain in permanently that's what they should go back to IMO.
yup thats what im talkin about(also if there was no SI and you lost a lvl you could not exploit it with macro programs to do your work for you)....not advocating changing LOMs to this as i prefer the little XP and the SI more than that....(although its exploitable by macro programs....which icant say i wouldnt use if i ever have to do mass lomming again)
bah lol i lomed me monk like 5 times took more then 100 total can't even begin to imagen how would it be if there where to do that..... If they gonna do that i can c alot of new ppl runing around with gimped sht setups and can't do anything about it lol that be kinda cool since there is not too many vets left id pwn evryone lololololol :D
bah lol i lomed me monk like 5 times took more then 100 total can't even begin to imagen how would it be if there where to do that..... If they gonna do that i can c alot of new ppl runing around with gimped sht setups and can't do anything about it lol that be kinda cool since there is not too many vets left id pwn evryone lololololol :DYou'd see a lot more people using different and varied setups and trying to build their own characters to be generally good rather than min-max specialised for the items and game they have at that moment.
It was that way for a long, long time and was MUCH better for it.
You'd see a lot more people using different and varied setups and trying to build their own characters to be generally good rather than min-max specialised for the items and game they have at that moment.
It was that way for a long, long time and was MUCH better for it.
yes indeed i though it was better before as well i miss the old days, but id still pwn evryone muahahahaha :D
edit: eh it was aweson at the begining of retail when ppl had not pure setups they did sht dmg and duels was so much more interesting, when now it's like this apu>all sniper>apu droner>teh ppl who don't have stealth... =P bleh
When you take a LoM you lose quite a lot of experience—especially at high levels. This seems like a fair trade off. However, the time delay between LoMs is totally unnecessary. One penalty per LoM is sufficient. They should work instantly. :confused:
you dont lose much XP I can usually get the XP from lommin an entire skill in about 6-8 hours of lvling
John_Ravenhawk
24-04-04, 07:32
I am sorry if you all feel that taking advantage of the game is wrong.
but when the problem is there and the company knows about it and they
continue not to fix it then what do you expect people to do just ignore it.
If i knew a way in real life to take advantage of the Itunes giveaway I sent
an email to them telling them about it.. If they don't fix it by putting out
bottles then i am a fool if I continue to buy them without using the problem
to my advantage..
Once a fool always a fool.. I am no fool If you want to close your eyes to an
advantage fine.. I don't look for exploits for one reason because I would feel
obligated to use them.
If you want to be a fool be one... I won't be.
A poorly-founded belief in immunity is a poor defence when you get caught.
If you think it's foolish to abide by a clearly worded contract under which you are bound then nothing anyone can say is likely to save you from yourself.
I guess it is macroing, but i cant see how this will give me any advantages in game. It removes skills, so why draw parallels between LoMing and XPing? The're two wildly different things.
My point is, you arent gaining anything in-game by using it, jusst a little more time to spend RL.
I guess it is macroing, but i cant see how this will give me any advantages in game. It removes skills, so why draw parallels between LoMing and XPing? The're two wildly different things.
My point is, you arent gaining anything in-game by using it, jusst a little more time to spend RL.
Yep exactly. What difference does it make to other players whether you are afk or not while lomming?
The difference is you are circumventing a system put in place to prevent large-scale use of LoMs. KK have been very clear that LoMs are meant for tweaking or correcting, not total re-skilling. For whatever reason they haven't made it impossible to re-skill they just made it unappealing. Macros break that system and allow massive reskilling with ease - a very very bad thing in an RPG as we have clearly seen here in Neocron.
wtf this is still going!v 8| i just needed a question answered :rolleyes:
You'd see a lot more people using different and varied setups and trying to build their own characters to be generally good rather than min-max specialised for the items and game they have at that moment.
It was that way for a long, long time and was MUCH better for it.
No you would see a larger gap between the power no life gamers and the weekend players that have kids and lives that cant power level a char in a week. Loms are indeed the one shining grace of NC. Loms let people level a char and do all the noob things in the game and then learn from mistakes without having to relevel a char from scratch. I would not be in NC now if i still have points in apu on my first pe.
Loms give players that are not power games a chance to skill over and get to top end content.
Neocron autolommer
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Instructions shown when starting the program.
Anyone scaned this, is it safe is the question?
No you would see a larger gap between the power no life gamers and the weekend players that have kids and lives that cant power level a char in a week. Loms are indeed the one shining grace of NC. Loms let people level a char and do all the noob things in the game and then learn from mistakes without having to relevel a char from scratch. I would not be in NC now if i still have points in apu on my first pe.
Loms give players that are not power games a chance to skill over and get to top end content.
Players that aren't power gamers usually just play for fun and aren't concerned about a point out of place here or there.
Do you really think the biggest LoM addicts are occasional players? :lol:
Saying people wouldn't be here now without them is patently untrue - populations were much higher before LoMs. I'm not saying they are causally related obviously but the fact is no-one left because they had to play the game properly like every other RPG in the world.
People have just got lazy and are throwing a tantrum that a major improvement in the game might make them think a bit for themselves.
Anyone scaned this, is it safe is the question?I dunno, whatever happened to trust these days..... :rolleyes:
j/k :p
Well if u think ppl are lazy.. then u should go to prehistorik time and smack the gromagnon a few times..
Why did human invent wheel? or even more, wheelbarrow?.. because of being lazy and tired of carrying stuff around.... ;)
why did human invent 3rd party program what lomms for them?.. b'cause they'r lazy.
OK.. i'm against 3rd party programs, 'cause basicly they are hacks, and every game has hacks that ruins em. d2/d2x had maphack, quake had several others ;) .. there has always been some sortta of GOD-modes etcetc.. things that ruin games.
But loms.... the only thing to adjust ur char. or the noobs (looks the mirror after playing almost 2months) who regonize their building mistakes and want to correct em. Or the alternative route to be good in something else.. Any one droned first, then lommed to CST? or APUd before lomming to PPU? Sometimes its just faster to do it "the easy way", so why would we deny it. If u want to make ur PPU from the beginning, then have it your way. If some one else doesnt want to spend years to cap it, then let him do it his way.
Last vote: 3rd party progs = shit. Lomming = Ok, though should have some sort of stacking system in it.. like take 3 loms, and gain 33% SI per lom. but cap it @ 100% SI.. and after every 33% SI you could take another pill. It would make it suitable Not frustrating. I just hate sitting next to my comp for a day and every 4,5minutes taking another lom, while it could be every 14minutes.
Well if u think ppl are lazy.. then u should go to prehistorik time and smack the gromagnon a few times..
Why did human invent wheel? or even more, wheelbarrow?.. because of being lazy and tired of carrying stuff around.... ;)
why did human invent 3rd party program what lomms for them?.. b'cause they'r lazy.
We use those things because they improve our lives. LoMs make things worse. They add nothing useful while destroying one of the most fundamental elements of an RPG.
The claim that noobs might need them is easily dealt with (if you accept it which I'm not sure I do) - allow LoMs at under lvl30 exactly as they are now (at that level how many can you need to take) and/or restore LoLs for higher levels.
lol .they actually posted the program here . . hmmm
maybe I'll use it for runescape free version .. dern getting kicked off for inactivity while I just move away from pc for a min heh
Thread starter should request a close thread or this will go on forever . lol
LoMs make things worse. They add nothing useful while destroying one of the most fundamental elements of an RPG.
The claim that noobs might need them is easily dealt with (if you accept it which I'm not sure I do) - allow LoMs at under lvl30 exactly as they are now (at that level how many can you need to take) and/or restore LoLs for higher levels.
I still can't see why the things are so bad with loms.. when they give another option in your game without having to reroll ur char. like my apu for instance.. she was /54 when i finally figured out that capping dex will take AGES to cap with making missions. So.. i spent a LOT of int points to get some poke and capped int, then lommed back. My bad.. but had to do it. And u think i should rerolled my whole char??.. no thnx.
And basicly.. who wants to spend ages to calculate the exact points what to distribute to your skills. And u need some experience to do that.
I just like to play the game - not make some UBER plans to be L337-build or the one that "PWNZ U ALLL MUHAHAH"-12year old kiddo with serious selfesteem issues.. (no offence any 1 - i just think thats childish). I wanna try something different - like Melee PE.
3 Reasons :
1) Variation - LoMs have destroyed all signs of it because everyone just LoMs to whatever the flavour-of-the-month is. Then they come on here and bitch about "cookie-cutters" and everyone being the same. Remove LoMs and you get character variation back.
2) RP - It's an RPG and that means you are meant to design and build your own character to suit your own play-style. No-one does this anymore because they are told that they have to do x, y and z just to compete with all the other clones. Look at one of clownstoppers recent threads - people were actually giving him grief for being a bit different from the crowd.:wtf:
3) Hiding bugs in the levelling process - KK will never fix tradeskill xp or Monk INT as long as LoMs exist.
wrt - "And basicly.. who wants to spend ages to calculate the exact points what to distribute to your skills. And u need some experience to do that. " - If you removed LoMs you would level the playing-filed a lot so these kind of "uber" setups would no longer exist and people would have to get some skill either in combat or in designing a durable and strong setup for the long-term.
Look at one of clownstoppers recent threads - people were actually giving him grief for being a bit different from the crowd.:wtf:
wrt - "And basicly.. who wants to spend ages to calculate the exact points what to distribute to your skills. And u need some experience to do that. " - If you removed LoMs you would level the playing-filed a lot so these kind of "uber" setups would no longer exist and people would have to get some skill either in combat or in designing a durable and strong setup for the long-term.
I have read the post.. and can't understand ppls behaviour. If someone wants to be different, then he should be able to be - without anyone yapping about it. My opinion is hybrids are kewl.
and about the strong setup.. with out Loms its impossible to make one these days when the game is altered a lot.. before it reaches the final point where there isn't going to be any skill balance changes or weapon TL / requirement changes you just can't make different char what would rule for longtime. Thats why ppl makes samekinda builds. I try to be different and PWN U ALL CLONES (just kidding) and make melee pe.. and then when i have started it after rerolling few pistols and rifles.. i hear they are going to rise the TLs of weapons.. so i guess i'm going to use LLS II and some crappy nonTC weapon :( :( :( and whats the worst point? - not getting any kewl swirly thingies around my weapon..
There will never be a time when "there isn't going to be any skill balance changes or weapon TL / requirement changes". That's the nature of a persistant world.
i know.. thats why the only thing to stop this conversation is a huge meteorite crashing earth and blowing us all up :)
When the game changes, there should be an easier way to alter ur char than rerolling.
you dont lose much XP I can usually get the XP from lommin an entire skill in about 6-8 hours of lvling
I want to see you level an APU to PSI 100 and then lom completely to PPU, I lost over 60 million XP, I want to see u replace that in 6-8 hours.....
i don't think an autolomer is an exploit, since it doesn't give you an unfair advantage .. it only allows you to waste less time
"It's unfair, the guy went to kill all my clanmates and gain 30 levels while I'm still loming!" :p
So... How would ppl make uberhigh tradeskiller chars if there were no LoMs around ? We all know that XPing as a tradeskiller is so slow it's not even funny.
The "KK ment LoMs to be used for small corrections" doesnt cutt it really. In a game that's constantly changing,(new toys, weapon reqiements etc..) the LoM feature is needed. Unless KK decides to release skillpoints with every patch. Wich they don't.
Clone-o-cron wouldn't be stopped by the removal of LoMs, it would jusst change it to re-roll-o-cron. And lets face it, the PA systen contribute to the Clone-o-cron. I'd love to see STR, PSI, and DEX based PAs for PEs, and the pistol/rifle bonus PAs removed.
Thats a bit OT but anyway. We wouldn't have any problems if the LoMing system would be faster.
i know.. thats why the only thing to stop this conversation is a huge meteorite crashing earth and blowing us all up :)Indeed. Some people's resilience to sense amazes me.
When the game changes, there should be an easier way to alter ur char than rerolling.You shouldn't change your character every time there is a small change to the game. Can you upgrade/change your degree every month just to try out another career? Character creation is about making choices and living with them. LoMs are a way of cheating yourself out of most of the fun of a game like this.
/edit @gohei :
If they removed LoMs they would have no choice but to make tradeskilling viable or there would be no tradeskillers. As it is LoMs are their excuse to leave a large part of the game broken.
"KK ment LoMs to be used for small corrections" not only "cuts it" it's also true and valid. The game does not and has not changed enough in the last year to justify LoMs with the exception of one or two monk changes which could have just had a PSI skill-wipe to fix them.
If people want to re-roll every month then that's fine by me. If they have that time to spend on the game then they deserve to get a slight edge on everyone else.
Why are some people so scared of having to think about their actions and take the consequences (good or bad) for them?
We use those things because they improve our lives. LoMs make things worse. They add nothing useful while destroying one of the most fundamental elements of an RPG.
If you recall back in the back of the DM guide on one of the best rpg ever it stated that all rules were subject to the DM to adjust for the need of better gaming. If you were one of the DM's that held so tight to the rules that you smothered your players then you were a bad DM. Hell back in like 1982 I had a group of 15 players that played DnD every weekend and I had a group that played twice a week. I bent many rules I even let one play play a vampire.
The root is the fudamental elements of RPG is being flexable to the enjoyment of the players. That is what loms do, allow the players to have more fun and less treadmilling. Now if they would just take some treadmilling off the lomming all would be cool.
If you recall back in the back of the DM guide on one of the best rpg ever it stated that all rules were subject to the DM to adjust for the need of better gaming. If you were one of the DM's that held so tight to the rules that you smothered your players then you were a bad DM. Hell back in like 1982 I had a group of 15 players that played DnD every weekend and I had a group that played twice a week. I bent many rules I even let one play play a vampire.
The root is the fudamental elements of RPG is being flexable to the enjoyment of the players. That is what loms do, allow the players to have more fun and less treadmilling. Now if they would just take some treadmilling off the lomming all would be cool.
It's also the job of a good to DM to provide challenges to keep people playing. Or did you let them just decide their rolls too? LoMs are a weighted die in your analogy.
I used to be very much against removing LoMs, for a number of reasons, though I did recently realise that you could say switching from Rifle Spy to Pistol Spy should be no different to switching from Rifle Spy to H-C Tank. I.e. reroll is necessary.
However, I would only accept LoLs if a few changes were made beforehand, not afterwards:
1) A fully comprehensive newbie guide was written. I would even be willing to write such a guide myself, but there should at least be one, to explain to newbies that they will need to specialise if they wish to compete in PvP.
2) Resist PSI is completely removed.
3) A skill reset is performed when the LoLs are implemented to allow players to generalise their setups, in accordance with the switched focus.
4) Tradeskill XP increased considerably, Monk DEX XP increased considerably, along with DEX XP gain from PSI modules, running, whatever, just some viable method. Also Monk INT and Tank CON, possibly even PE CON. Given that people would be expected to reroll to change from e.g. APU to PPU, it's unfair to require several months to level up these particular skills to high levels when other skills cap far quicker.
If this was done, I could accept LoLs, though I would prefer LoMs that took 1/3 level in XP rather than a full one. The synaptic impairment would need to be removed as well.
So... How would ppl make uberhigh tradeskiller chars if there were no LoMs around ? We all know that XPing as a tradeskiller is so slow it's not even funny.
as funny as it sounds .. try a HC spy with a combat vehicle. Sure it's not the fastest of leveling treks . but it's alot faster than XPing with tradeskills only and you'll be a great tech hunter while still being able to be a pure tradeskiller with 0 weaponlore if you choose. (0 weaponlore cause you can just get right up against the mob and that reticle will close fast enough or you can stay out of mob aggro and get lock then drive up to keep it)
try something different and you never know you might be able to work something out. Everyone uses LoMs as their personal setup adjuster when it's more for the fact that things do get changed in patches. I understand taking a few points and readjusting but the work arounds of leveling as one combat skill and then switching to a totally different one . I"m not sure about. But i guess if people want a quick change I'd say they just bring in Loss of level pills so you can take them quickly but each pill drops you a level each use ^^.
The 100 synap for a full skill release wouldnt' be totally fair to say those who only have 10 levels to those who have 100 levels .. you both wait the same amount of time so why does the 10 level have to wait as much as the 100 level. I'd agree maybe to 10 points per Lom v2 pills that gives (umm i forgot the exact synap % for 1 lom was it 48?) 96% synap. err I think .. heh.
I'd like it also if they just changed the pills to be dex, str, int, psi, con and when you take the one you want to change it brings up a lil choice box to choose subskill. Would make things a little more clean than having all these pills for each subskill.
Agreed Scikar with maybe a few reservations on point 4.
@amfest - I tried an HC spy like you suggest and it was not good at all. Even drugged I was better off in every way with pistols on zero natural WEP.
John_Ravenhawk
25-04-04, 07:11
I wrote an entire story of how I lost my construction ability and how doctors
in the wastelands rebuilt me in the only image they had.. That of a doctor
it was how after 6 months of rl inactivity I suddenly came back as a poker
instead of a engineer... Role Playing at its finest all courtesy of LOM's
Where does it say all exploits are bugs?
That's just idiotic. Using anything outside the normal methods of gameplay to gain an advantage is an exploit. It makes no difference whether it's abusing a bug or deliberately altering/augmenting the game with a third-party app.
Please get your facts straight.
I certainly did not want to read all the posts on this tread but this caught my attention on the first set of posts.
So that means using programs like Team Speak and Ventrillo are considered exploits?
Because it DOES give you an advantage ingame to people that dont have them.
My 2 cents.
Although about the lom pills thing, yes i wish there was a somewhat faster way to get rid of LOTS of skills.
Agreed Scikar with maybe a few reservations on point 4.
@amfest - I tried an HC spy like you suggest and it was not good at all. Even drugged I was better off in every way with pistols on zero natural WEP.
hmm well maybe in int gain .. but can your 0 wepon lore spy kill a grim chaser in about 30 seconds? Never said it was the best int gains but it's not totally terrible either. The bad side is you can't really do cave runs since carrying actual cannons for a spy is silly. (though I do it for entertaiment purposes, Nothing like that tank running up and hitting you with a plasma cannon and you turn around and do the same :lol: ) Now if you're talking about the best leveling abilites yea I"d have to say okay but it's still NOT that bad. I admit It's a slow process but I didn't level for long and got over 100 in construction then went and did over 100 in research (I like to research my own techs and I can build lowbies some wepaons or construct imps or slotenhancers i complete) I also have 100 points in repair and can drive every vehicle and gun all but the tank. When bdoy hits I'll be able to fly by then. I'd say this tradeskiller has some nice options and doesn't have to worry about front line combat and can be a tech collector. Not pvp viable but bah I don't think everyone needs to be pvp viable to be an asset.
wtf this is still going!v 8| i just needed a question answered :rolleyes:
yes you can use them if u don't tell anyone and you don't make a whole thread asking if you can :p
So that means using programs like Team Speak and Ventrillo are considered exploits?Do they modify Neocron in any way? No, hence no they aren't exploits.
@John - Well that's nice but it doesn't change anything.
@Amfest - My HC Spy couldn't kill a Grim at all. He was so underskilled on H-C he could hardly take out a Reaper Spider without having to run for cover. Unless you've found a way to get more STR/H-C on a spy somehow I'm confused.
Do they modify Neocron in any way? No, hence no they aren't exploits.So by that logic, my program isnt an exploit either, it dosent modify or hook into Neocron in any way. It manipulates the Windows API and sends keypresss, it'll sit and left and right click your desktop if you wanted it to!
true as heck.. i think messing with your windows shouldn't be concerned as hack or exploit or anything.. sure u can put your windows to defrag you hds, check your viruses.. so why not clicking mouse?
true as heck.. i think messing with your windows shouldn't be concerned as hack or exploit or anything.. sure u can put your windows to defrag you hds, check your viruses.. so why not clicking mouse?
Too bad you gain(!) experience with "just messing with windows"....
Play the game with your own hands if you enjoy it, if not please go away and never come back.
Too bad you gain(!) experience with "just messing with windows"....
Play the game with your own hands if you enjoy it, if not please go away and never come back.
Don't know what kind of LoM pills you've taken but the ones on the retail servers remove XP, and gives a 4 minute SI. No gain.
Don't know what kind of LoM pills you've taken but the ones on the retail servers remove XP, and gives a 4 minute SI. No gain.
My statement was not aimed at LoM-pills-macros but "messing with windows" which indeed makes you level while being afk... Read again the post by tiikeri I was replying too :rolleyes:
well if ur saying that a macro that does a right and left click every 30 seconds, then how about teaching a cat to do it while u sit afk? :rolleyes: :p
So by that logic, my program isnt an exploit either, it dosent modify or hook into Neocron in any way. It manipulates the Windows API and sends keypresss, it'll sit and left and right click your desktop if you wanted it to!
What the hell?
Don't be an ass. It's designed (or at least configured) specifically to do a task in Neocron. Therefore it's an exploit.
What the hell?
Don't be an ass. It's designed (or at least configured) specifically to do a task in Neocron. Therefore it's an exploit.Hey, don't turn this into a flame war. Yes this was originally designed to automate lomming, but by YOUR OWN logic, my program isnt an explot....
Do they modify Neocron in any way? No, hence no they aren't exploits.Thats all I was stating, no need for the personal attack.
Sheesh.. :rolleyes:
LoLs would be the quickest way to assure mass account cancellations. I still have a PPU that would be fully capped if not for the LoL garbage KK pulled earlier. I just haven't had the heart to go through all that again.
tomparadox
25-04-04, 21:25
What the hell?
Don't be an ass. It's designed (or at least configured) specifically to do a task in Neocron. Therefore it's an exploit.
dude...dont take this as a flame or personaly but stfu... if it was an exploit a mod would have deleted the link and the post or edited it out by now. is it there? yes. therefor KK must not cair that mutch.. and also they use it on testserver for the autoimper...
dude...dont take this as a flame or personaly but stfu... if it was an exploit a mod would have deleted the link and the post or edited it out by now. is it there? yes. therefor KK must not cair that mutch.. and also they use it on testserver for the autoimper...TS is irrelevant.
As for why KK haven't edited this thread (or the previous one) I can't say. They haven't chosen to comment and I do wonder why. However until they edit the terms of conduct the rules stand as published and it is an exploit. As a paying customer I expect them to enforce those rules for the good of all the players. If KK change their terms to allow this kind of abuse I would raise my protests direct to them but have to accept it as allowed practice. Until they do that there is no question at all that it is an abuse.
Besides - this thread seems mostly to be a more hypothetical debate on the value of LoMs now which is exactly the intended purpose of these forums and far more productive than most threads we get here.
In brief - I won't "STFU" because the rules are clear regardless of how the forum mods (who are mostly NOT KK employees) choose to treat this thread.
Right. Just because mods don't do much about this (hell, the autopoker thread never was really closed, especially when the threadstarter asked for it to be closed (I think multiple times)), it doesn't make it allowable.
Said autopoker thread revealed that not only are GMs actually WANTING to hear what the community has to say/feel about macros (specifically the auto-poker), DaFire (Who is a KK employee) also indirectly stated that you would currently get banned for such activity..
I cannot say that either the GMs or KK can back up this post, but it is the information I have gathered, after all.
tomparadox
25-04-04, 21:58
TS is irrelevant.
As for why KK haven't edited this thread (or the previous one) I can't say. They haven't chosen to comment and I do wonder why. However until they edit the terms of conduct the rules stand as published and it is an exploit. As a paying customer I expect them to enforce those rules for the good of all the players. If KK change their terms to allow this kind of abuse I would raise my protests direct to them but have to accept it as allowed practice. Until they do that there is no question at all that it is an abuse.
Besides - this thread seems mostly to be a more hypothetical debate on the value of LoMs now which is exactly the intended purpose of these forums and far more productive than most threads we get here.
In brief - I won't "STFU" because the rules are clear regardless of how the forum mods (who are mostly NOT KK employees) choose to treat this thread.
__________________
actuly theres were your rong... this post is not about loms in general its about the auto-loming tool... and another thing, mods arnt KK employees, atlest not most of them, but they still half to obide by the rules... meening they HALF to delet or edit out all things posted that will allowed a player or give a player infermation on exploiting...
I had left this thread open because the matter is currently under internal discussion. However, the situation as it stands today is that macros are not permitted and therefore this thread is to be closed.
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