Carinth
15-04-04, 21:53
As Shadowdancer said in a previous thread and as I said in my general class balancing thread, I believe the best way to balance Hybrids is to stop using the same spells as Pures. They should have their own line of combo spells. For this thread though, I wanted to focus on hybrids as they are, using ppu and apu spells. Since it's more likely kk will try to balancing existing setups, then introduce an entirely new spell line.
Whenever ideas about hybrid balancing are discussed, a phrase is commonly used that really really really annoys me. "We can't give them good defense and offense or they'll be overpowered." Why?! Why do hybrids have to have a critical defect, why do they have to have a handicap, why? Why can't hybrids have the same abilities other classes have? We talk of making sure a hybrid can't take on multiple people, but other classes can. Would you play a class that chokes if more then 1 person attacks you? Tanks have health/armor/resistance to hopefuly run away. Spies and PE's have stealth to run away. Monks soly have shock, which is used against us, and our defensive psi, which is what everyone keeps reducing. Honestly Hybrids are the base Monk and should be compared to Tanks/Pe's/Spies. Pure's are an abberation that you get by super specializing. There is no equivalant in any other class, so we can't compare them in the same scale. For now let's forget they exist.
Our first problem is in the relationship between psi offense/defense and non psi offense/defense. When you compare them, it's obvious psi wins hands down. That's why everyone uses as much as they can, even Tanks run around with 5slot Crahn Heals. Even your basic store bought Heal is infinitely better then a medkit. Deflector, or even Shelter are so much better then comparative armor it's crazy. Offensively psi wins aswell, it's capable of at least the same damage if not more. It's also capable of easier targeting and less missing.
First, if we keep Psi mostly the same, then we must weaken monk's non psi defense and strengthen everyone else's. It's generaly agreed on that Monks get some of the best armor and ontop of that get the best psi defenses. It's been a long time since anyone seriously thought of piercing as a weakness. Only hybrids using Exp Gimptroller have some weaknesss to it, but even they can make up for it. So reduce our armor, maybe reduce our con. Now at this point Monks are at a serious disadvantage, so our psi needs to be strengthened. We should be capable of putting up a shelter that lasts longer then 60seconds, I mean noone else has to put make sure their armor stays on. Defensively, what I'm aiming for is that what other classes are capable of without psi, is what we should be capable of with psi. Increase our dependance on Psi, and decrease everyone else's. Medkits should be comparible to Crahn Heal, they are one in the same but for different classes. Shelter/Deflector are comparible to armor, Booster spells are comparible to drugs, our offensive spells are comparible to guns. Make us on the same level.
If you can manage that, hybrids should be balanced with the other classes. They should be capable of doing the same damage a Tank does, and of withstanding similar damage. But they do it with psi spells.
The really tricky part is when you bring in the pure monks. I believe there should be a clear divide between hybrids and pure's. It should be decided that a certain level of ppu or apu should not be obtainable by hybrids. The hybrid spells are balanced in comparison to the other classes. Above those are the pure spells, which are also balanced with the other classes, but also consider that these characters gave up offense or defense. Most spells should be only accessible by Pure's. Like hybrids shouldn't have anti paralyze, nor should they have anti shelter. I would say hybrids should have roughly Blessed level access to their needed spells, because that's about on par with what everyone else can do without psi. Except for healing of course, they shouldn't have blessed heal. In short a mid level pure monk is on equal footing with capped non puremonks who don't specialize in attack/defense. This works for ppu's, since a capped ppu should be difficult to kill. It's harder to work out apu's though, hmm. Following the same scheme, a capped apu would be capable of doing incredible damage, prolly twice as much as everyone else. That's a problem : )
The APU is really difficult because they're a support class that doesn't want to be dependant on ppu's, but if they are matched up with a ppu they can't become too powerful. You can go two ways that I can see. Really alter the apu class so that somehow they can group with anyone and still infer some benefit as a support. Like an APU/Tank team should be possible without the APU dying in the first shot. Maybe a spell that ties the APU's health to the target's health? It would somehow hafta be restricted to team only. You cast it on a Tank and now have some of the Tank's defenses. In exchange your incredible firepower will let the Tank kill much quicker. Along the same lines, APU's would gain lots of offensive support spells, ways to weaken enemies. That's just an idea, it'd need a lot of work obviously. The other solution is much simpler, just force apu's to depend on a ppu. It's not that much fun, but you can always be a hybrid if you don't like being a dependant apu.
Now both situations have the problem of how to balance two characters that act as one with everyone else. I don't know honestly, their specialization works because they don't have the benefit of the other. When you put them together they're way too powerful. Maybe you could have ppu impairment? Actualy that's not a bad idea. The presence of ppu spells on you such as holy shelter, will lower your damage capability. This works with ppu/other teams too I think. A Tank that accepts a ppu's help can't do as much damage, but they gain much better defenses. An APU that wants to keep his damage capability can tell off the PPU and go solo. Of course there's the question of this becoming an offensive weapon, purposefuly sheltering your enemies to weaken their attacks on you. I dunno.
Whenever ideas about hybrid balancing are discussed, a phrase is commonly used that really really really annoys me. "We can't give them good defense and offense or they'll be overpowered." Why?! Why do hybrids have to have a critical defect, why do they have to have a handicap, why? Why can't hybrids have the same abilities other classes have? We talk of making sure a hybrid can't take on multiple people, but other classes can. Would you play a class that chokes if more then 1 person attacks you? Tanks have health/armor/resistance to hopefuly run away. Spies and PE's have stealth to run away. Monks soly have shock, which is used against us, and our defensive psi, which is what everyone keeps reducing. Honestly Hybrids are the base Monk and should be compared to Tanks/Pe's/Spies. Pure's are an abberation that you get by super specializing. There is no equivalant in any other class, so we can't compare them in the same scale. For now let's forget they exist.
Our first problem is in the relationship between psi offense/defense and non psi offense/defense. When you compare them, it's obvious psi wins hands down. That's why everyone uses as much as they can, even Tanks run around with 5slot Crahn Heals. Even your basic store bought Heal is infinitely better then a medkit. Deflector, or even Shelter are so much better then comparative armor it's crazy. Offensively psi wins aswell, it's capable of at least the same damage if not more. It's also capable of easier targeting and less missing.
First, if we keep Psi mostly the same, then we must weaken monk's non psi defense and strengthen everyone else's. It's generaly agreed on that Monks get some of the best armor and ontop of that get the best psi defenses. It's been a long time since anyone seriously thought of piercing as a weakness. Only hybrids using Exp Gimptroller have some weaknesss to it, but even they can make up for it. So reduce our armor, maybe reduce our con. Now at this point Monks are at a serious disadvantage, so our psi needs to be strengthened. We should be capable of putting up a shelter that lasts longer then 60seconds, I mean noone else has to put make sure their armor stays on. Defensively, what I'm aiming for is that what other classes are capable of without psi, is what we should be capable of with psi. Increase our dependance on Psi, and decrease everyone else's. Medkits should be comparible to Crahn Heal, they are one in the same but for different classes. Shelter/Deflector are comparible to armor, Booster spells are comparible to drugs, our offensive spells are comparible to guns. Make us on the same level.
If you can manage that, hybrids should be balanced with the other classes. They should be capable of doing the same damage a Tank does, and of withstanding similar damage. But they do it with psi spells.
The really tricky part is when you bring in the pure monks. I believe there should be a clear divide between hybrids and pure's. It should be decided that a certain level of ppu or apu should not be obtainable by hybrids. The hybrid spells are balanced in comparison to the other classes. Above those are the pure spells, which are also balanced with the other classes, but also consider that these characters gave up offense or defense. Most spells should be only accessible by Pure's. Like hybrids shouldn't have anti paralyze, nor should they have anti shelter. I would say hybrids should have roughly Blessed level access to their needed spells, because that's about on par with what everyone else can do without psi. Except for healing of course, they shouldn't have blessed heal. In short a mid level pure monk is on equal footing with capped non puremonks who don't specialize in attack/defense. This works for ppu's, since a capped ppu should be difficult to kill. It's harder to work out apu's though, hmm. Following the same scheme, a capped apu would be capable of doing incredible damage, prolly twice as much as everyone else. That's a problem : )
The APU is really difficult because they're a support class that doesn't want to be dependant on ppu's, but if they are matched up with a ppu they can't become too powerful. You can go two ways that I can see. Really alter the apu class so that somehow they can group with anyone and still infer some benefit as a support. Like an APU/Tank team should be possible without the APU dying in the first shot. Maybe a spell that ties the APU's health to the target's health? It would somehow hafta be restricted to team only. You cast it on a Tank and now have some of the Tank's defenses. In exchange your incredible firepower will let the Tank kill much quicker. Along the same lines, APU's would gain lots of offensive support spells, ways to weaken enemies. That's just an idea, it'd need a lot of work obviously. The other solution is much simpler, just force apu's to depend on a ppu. It's not that much fun, but you can always be a hybrid if you don't like being a dependant apu.
Now both situations have the problem of how to balance two characters that act as one with everyone else. I don't know honestly, their specialization works because they don't have the benefit of the other. When you put them together they're way too powerful. Maybe you could have ppu impairment? Actualy that's not a bad idea. The presence of ppu spells on you such as holy shelter, will lower your damage capability. This works with ppu/other teams too I think. A Tank that accepts a ppu's help can't do as much damage, but they gain much better defenses. An APU that wants to keep his damage capability can tell off the PPU and go solo. Of course there's the question of this becoming an offensive weapon, purposefuly sheltering your enemies to weaken their attacks on you. I dunno.