View Full Version : Economy Fix - A little bit of Socialism
Let's face it. We are playing a game. This game has an economy, and the economy it has is totally ruined. The reason of this is no fault of our own, it is just because it's a game and not real life. People don't spend money the same way they do in real life as they do playing neocron. The economy needs some serious regulation.
Heres the idea:
Money is created whenever a mob is killed. This leads instantly to inflation, as alot more people are killing mobs than they are destroying money, by buying things from NPC's. What I suggest is that CityAdmin creates a bank. This bank would have say, 1 billion credits in it, and any time a mob is killed, the money is deducted from the bank, and given to the hunter. In turn, whenever the runner buys something from an NPC, the money goes back into the fund. It would be optional to make it so Tsunami Syndicate and Black Dragon do not get paid by cityadmin, as they need to make their money in ways of crime anyway.
Taxation
In order for this to work, and the money to not be quickly depleted from the "federal bank", CityAdmin will have to take a 1% tax deduction from all P2P trading. (I.E. if you are paying 10,000cr to someone, cityadmin takes 1%, or 100cr) This will ensure that there is enough money leaving and entering the bank. This will also allow money to stop inflating and begin to have some worth. The cap on cash will also have to be removed to allow people to become rich and powerful. Your money will be a relation to the whole, allowing you to become POWERFUL if you can get your hands on enough cash.
People can keep all the money they have now, as they have earned it and a wipe would be out of the question. For simplicities sake, Twilight Guardian, CityMerc, and Fallen Angels would all agree to this change in social system, and have their money in their own banks, but each bank basically sharing the same lump of cash. It makes no sense, but alot of things in this game don't either.
Each player would get a mail informing them from of the change in social system.
(Optional)
Create an actual zone, called CityAdmin bank or something, filled with 120/120 guards all over, with a vault. An expert hacker with tons of hack skill would have to hack the vault successfully, and once you enter the vault, a doorswitch or something similar would be clickable allowing "You obtained 100,000cr!" to occur when you click on it. Of course this room would be completly filled with tons of 120/120 guards, making it nearly impossible to rob, to prevent exploiting. FA, TG, and CM would also have their own, well-guarded banks.
I quit this game a month ago to to serious problems including lack of high level content, and a severly inflated economy, and perhaps a change like this could make at least one of the problems go away.
Some feedback please :)
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It would be optional to make it so Tsunami Syndicate and Black Dragon do not get paid by cityadmin, as they need to make their money in ways of crime anyway.
On the flipside, I doubt these two factions you mentioned pay their taxes.
Would be a nice idea if these two factions get neither money or taxed.
Other than that, looks like a good idea. ^^
Don't think it'd work, might sound nice, but generally speaking an MMO has an economy comparable to the one of a third world country*; this get's made up for by the fact that there is a limitless supply of money, thus meaning that everyone always has a chance to get what they need.
However, if there was a strict limit set to cash, and no new cash ever get's added to this, it would start off being quite balanced, but eventually you'd see all the money would be in hands of the biggest jerks on the server, and none of it would ever get given out, thus meaning that there is no chance at all for a newbie to ever get anything.
*To clarify, there's a select few rich people, and the rest is poor.
not sure if this would work.
inflation on the servers has been in most part, due to supply and demand. Over the last year or so the supply of certain items in game (MC5 and tech parts) has varied. When the parts are dropping rapidly then people are able to farm them, as the drop dries up or is reduced they are able to drive the prices up as newer people who did not play during the time of 'feasting' want to aquire the rare weapons that keep them in the arms race of PvP but have a harder/longer time aquiring them through hunting.
if you place a limit on the total server money pool thats ok. but prices for 'rare' items will still get gouged since the availibility of those items still fluctuates ... doesn't matter if a part costs 800k under our current 'unlimited' server pool or 20k under your system - the end is I still have to pay an amount that is relatively very expensive for the current economy. make sense?
what needs to happen is the balance between the 'rare' items and the purchasable items (Lupus is working on it atm - weapons at least) - bring those two closer to each other and you'll see the economy start to improve ...
Dribble Joy
13-04-04, 19:38
Far far far more money flows into the system than flows out, this leads to a massive rate of inflation which is not ofset by prices.
If the game automatically regulated the net amount of money in the system per player then we would not have the situation we have now.
A barter system is better anyway.
But there's no problem with the NC economy - prices and reward amounts have basically always been the same. The problem is with player-player transactions. And this only applies to some servers. For example, the economy on Uranus is perfectly fine IMO.
It's only on certain servers where a group of players decided to make and spend lots of money that it became a problem. The sellers then found they could charge more, and have kept their prices inflated.
Thus it IS your fault as a player on this server - and the way to fix it is to charge less when you sell items - Don't hold auctions (which are biased towards the people with the msot money - and thus only hinder the economy problem) - Don't pay inflated prices for items - try to find someone who will sell you what you want cheaper.
There is nothing that KK can do to fix the problem (short of a money wipe - but I severely doubt that would happen - and it's anti-roleplay IMO).
Also, I don't like the 'money pot' idea - I would leave neocron if I wasn't getting the rewards for what I kill just because too many mobs had already been killed this week, this month, whatever.
Athon Solo
Dribble Joy
13-04-04, 19:45
The problem is due to a range of problems.
There are more moveons and pprs ingame now than there were 2 months after they came out, yet the price, even on Uranus is twice what it was a month after they came out.
I have seem these chips go for up to 2-3 mil.
I bought my ppr for 800k, which was alot at the time.
Far far far more money flows into the system than flows out, this leads to a massive rate of inflation which is not ofset by prices.
If the game automatically regulated the net amount of money in the system per player then we would not have the situation we have now.
A barter system is better anyway.
yea but even if we regulate an amount per player or server total, price inflation is still relative to the amount of money you can have at any one time right?
for example: if I'm only allowed to have 100k in my bank account at any given time but I want to buy something that is popular but it is in limited supply then the seller can still raise his cost to 100k. So now I'm paying 100k for something that if I could buy in the store would only cost maybe 1k (filter 2 for example under the new economy).
If you regulate per player or server money totals you would have to reduce the amount of money you got per mob kill and when selling back back stuff so it would take you just as long to make 100k as it would 800k to buy the same part ...
feel free to correct me. I'm sure I'm missing something and I know my view on the economic situation is simplistic ...
Dribble Joy
13-04-04, 20:05
I meant net amount per player.
In RL the vast majority of money is held up in bank, property and the government. (Eg. gold)
There should be a fixed amount of money existing in the world (or specifically, in one country), however, inflation means that the value of any one given 'unit' of currency will slowly fall over time.
Giving CA (or whoever supplies mob and mission rewards, it could be several groups) a huge pot of money would mean that a runner could work his arse off and gain more than another runner. It would have little impact on the system itself.
To stop everyone gaining masses of pure currency the system wouls increase item prices so that despite peoples higher income, their outgoings would increase too.
PS, I am not an economist. I am an engineer.
IMO you do not need to revamp the entire system, which implys beta testing, bug fixing and such.
the problem: more money flows in than out.
the solution: 'slightly' more money should flow out.
theroy:
this should be a step by step aproach/tweak. im talking about raising price on items that everyone has/buys (implant goo, research substance, etc...) on a consistent basis, not comsumables (like cars/weapons and other less frequent purchases).
and if there are not items that are frequently purchased, then there should be a vehicle tax/fuel/garage storage charge. or apt rental fee / month or some other such minor change of money flowing out.
as i said, a very slight change should be the course taken, then sit back and see if it improves things.
ramifications:
the other major thing to consider is that generating money for high level characters is very easy, thus a price hike of 1000 / implant goo to 1200 / implant goo will not have much effect on a high rank but a significant effect on a n00b.
idea #1:
i am for things like apt fee's that increase with your rank (or 0 fee's on your 1st apt, and tax on any subsequent ones) and veh garage storage fee's. things that will only effect higher rank players.
idea #2:
lower NC's gained from killing higher level mobs, while keeping NC's gaind from killing lower level ones the same. or in contrast, simply receive less NC's as a higher rank for killing a mob. (i think lower loot of higher mobs would be easier to implement).
idea #3:
some kind of faction due, the higher rank you are, the higher the money you pay into your faction as a due. make it interesting and fun, not just, pay money for nothing. (this requires much more brainstorming.)
Economies evolve in different ways, we can't help that. People put time and effort into getting lots of credits, if they want to sacrifice their time to get rich, I dont see a problem in that?
As long as people pay the cash they are paying for this stuff, the 'economy problem' aint gonna be fixxed.
Economies on the servers a getting bigger..... Deal with it.
Create an actual zone, called CityAdmin bank or something,
There is a bank but uh it's under renovation.
There is a bank but uh it's under renovation.
Its being turned into a zoo.
reakktor building better worlds
^^ we pay taxes irl, stick with the original intention
Biggest problem is the freaking ATP usage with CST/RESS/BAR...
That KK havent done anything about it is just sooo freaking lame. They really dont care if a CS cost 5 M or 30.... they still got payed in real cash. :rolleyes:
Heavyporker
13-04-04, 21:57
making the Stock-X bank into a zoo is so, so, so very wrong...
they should've made an entirely new zone for the zoo, ffs.
Biggest problem is the freaking ATP usage with CST/RESS/BAR...
That KK havent done anything about it is just sooo freaking lame.Agreed. No fixes to the economy or new money sinks will work so long as it is possible to create more money from thin air. In a previous post, I suggested that vehicle components 8, 9, and 10s no longer be researchable. Plenty of them drop from mobs to build the vehicles people need.
It is agreeable that there probably are enough 8-9-10 parts accessible for people to get their vehicles..
The question is then, are there enough for people to get multiple spare vehicles in case their first ones break down and die?
Just curious as to how big the pool is here.
Heavyporker
13-04-04, 22:06
I really wish certain people would stop to THINK before spewing rhetoric.
There is nothing in the game that can be made from THIN AIR.
Everything in the game involves a great deal of time and effort involved. Granted... some people may very well use macros to sidestep this, but that's still time spent and cash spent upon the initial investment of cheap material to create more-profitable material.
It is agreeable that there probably are enough 8-9-10 parts accessible for people to get their vehicles..
The question is then, are there enough for people to get multiple spare vehicles in case their first ones break down and die?
Just curious as to how big the pool is here.Absolutely. Most people don't even loot the 8s and 9s from mobs because they are worthless. It would be nice if these became valuable.
I don't understand KK, they deleted the boxes at Point Red a long time ago because they didn't want people to make so much money from the tools and yet they do nothing about the ATP problem. To clarify, I don't think they should nerf the price ATPs sell for because it is a good source of money for those of us that get our comp 10s from hunting and not from a res/cst assembly line.
I really wish certain people would stop to THINK before spewing rhetoric.
There is nothing in the game that can be made from THIN AIR.
Everything in the game involves a great deal of time and effort involved. Granted... some people may very well use macros to sidestep this, but that's still time spent and cash spent upon the initial investment of cheap material to create more-profitable material.
I know guys that made over 1000 MILLION !!!! <----- YEA its sooo true, I will not name any server or name because that would be unfair "yes I play on other servers to.."
So dont come and say boooh it takes time, when you have 4 resser and 3 cst it takes like 1 day to make over 150 M... If all did that a MC5 would cost 800 M wouldnt that be nice :rolleyes:
Heavyporker
13-04-04, 22:13
wow... gosh..
I'm blown away.
what eloquence! what directness! so descriptive! and such a good argument!
Gosh, how could I ever possibly rebut?!
Get this straight. Not everyone does it. Not all that tradeskill grind away to stash hundreds of millions in one go. Not all that possess MC5s wait to find that billionaire that would spend his kingdom for a single Hawkins.
I really wish certain people would stop to THINK before spewing rhetoric.
There is nothing in the game that can be made from THIN AIR.
Everything in the game involves a great deal of time and effort involved. Granted... some people may very well use macros to sidestep this, but that's still time spent and cash spent upon the initial investment of cheap material to create more-profitable material.Spewing rhetoric? I am simply stating my opinion. I realize that it takes time to build ATPs (I've done it) and it also took hours of hacking to loot the TL150 tools from the PR boxes. I am glad PR was changed and I think that veh comps 8-10 should not be researchable. You don't have to agree, but it is my opinion.
Get this straight. Not everyone does it. Not all that tradeskill grind away to stash hundreds of millions in one go. Not all that possess MC5s wait to find that billionaire that would spend his kingdom for a single Hawkins.
4 slotted server... got a resser got a cst and I can lom to get a good barter can do all my job by my selfe... I can just say if you want to make cash that way you can make loads and fast. None of any other tradeskill combatskill can make so much cash i so short of time, face it its borked
EDIT: Btw.. market is offer and demand.... IF a guy can buy a MC5 for 30 - 40 M dont you think all want to sell it for that price? So if one screw it up or some the cash will flow because if he spends it all and makes some new all will have the cash = useless....
Read donald duck when you where younger? Its a village called tralala. There are 6 bottle caps, the first one lands near a rice field and hey that dood got something noone got. But then they start to offer one cheep 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and so on later that day its worth 100 cheeps!!! Well donald got 5 bottle caps and HEEEY HES THEE RICHEST!!! to make it all worth they sends planes to deliver so many bottle caps they never seent, that aint the solution if all got it its just crap, and noone wants crap aight?.... duh!
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