View Full Version : So, warbots ARE mechs....
Clive tombstone
10-04-04, 18:03
note:for more infor read the neocronicle.
So by what ive read in the neocronicle, its saying that warbots are actually piloted, or at least some of them, Anyone know how that once DoY comes out, is this gonna effect what vehicles we can purchace? maybe mech suits from neocron or doy? that be pretty sweet.
NS_CHROME54
10-04-04, 18:19
warbots WERE piloted, but are now running automatically, with the "rattling bones of their pilots inside them." they were piloted during the big nc-doy war, but that's a long time before where the storyline is now.
Clive tombstone
10-04-04, 19:17
Hmm can I have a response from a GM? that would be cool, but besides that, will mechs ever be released for player use?? I have a pick of a mech somewhere that I THINK was ment for players.. I post it later
mechs for spies!!
although I"ll agree with PEs riding mech turtles! ;)
Sorry I just think you want all vehicle type things to be workable by PEs and though I know it's nice to have a character that can accss everything we're talking PE which is the jack of all trades . But I'll shutup now cause I don't know if that's what you're going to ask ;)
Again mechs for spies!!
P.S. I know they had considered mechs before and I'm sure there are a few models in game already maybe. (along with a few other mobs that we don't see anymore that were from beta) but I guess we'll have to wait and see what the future holds.
mechs for spies!!
omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg.........
that'd be soooooooo cool, if they can't wear armour, let them pilot uber huge mechs. It'd make repair skill useful.
Clownst0pper
10-04-04, 20:35
Yup would be nice to be able to pilot some sort of mech onto the battle field...
*drools*
I always thought the warbots in the wastelands were the ones made by CA. I knew about the storyline of the original ones being from DoY, but I thought the storyline somewhere said something like CA made their own versions and sent them out to attack DoY, and I guess I assumed the wastelands ones were the CA ones because they usually face north, towards DoY.
Athon Solo
I always thought the warbots in the wastelands were the ones made by CA. I knew about the storyline of the original ones being from DoY, but I thought the storyline somewhere said something like CA made their own versions and sent them out to attack DoY, and I guess I assumed the wastelands ones were the CA ones because they usually face north, towards DoY.
Athon Solo
The storyline you have mentioned was about the Y troopers. The ones present in the Southeast are Y "replicants" made by CA based on DoY and Ceres technology.
ahhh - that makes sense =)
I guess the north facing thing is either just chance or perhaps they have been slowly returning to DoY.
Athon Solo
Clive tombstone
11-04-04, 00:55
hmm I dunno, about spies useing all the vehicles, cuz well, a spy doesnt seem to be the logical equality (spy= Pilot) dont make sense
PE's have the "test drive" beginning proff, give them the mechs and get rid of Stealth, man those things are annoying.
Q`alooaith
11-04-04, 02:07
Hmmmm, now where did I hear this first...
Oh yes, I've been trying to point out that WB's where the domes mech's for some time now... I'm sure a long and inifective search will help you....
*Smug mode on*
If the BattleTech universe is anything to go by, I'd say any mind short of a Spy's is going to struggle controlling something like that.
hmm I dunno, about spies useing all the vehicles, cuz well, a spy doesnt seem to be the logical equality (spy= Pilot) dont make sense
PE's have the "test drive" beginning proff, give them the mechs and get rid of Stealth, man those things are annoying.
you my friend are in denial. Maybe in some video games they make mechs require only 2 joysticks and a few buttons but let's think about this mechs hmmm. :p
I know you're rooting for PEs. I can feel it in my bones. and though I can see PEs using some low end mechs.
the realm of top technology belongs to the spy ;)
as the realm of high end psi belongs to monks
as the realm of high end heavy weapons belongs to the tanks (though I think they need to run slower not be able to play the run around in circles game like other classes but be able to take massive dmg and be resistant to psi a bit -- basically the PE class should have the easiest time in taking out tanks)
the low to mid should be accessible to PEs depending on how you want to play it.
Clive tombstone
11-04-04, 03:32
Just as a counter-note to the spy=mechpilot theory
look at many different series involving mechs, including heavygear, mechwarrior, maccross, evangellion, voltron, and gundamn to name a few, almost ANYONE in those series could use a mech, and it didnt matter much on there intelegence on there behalf, ONe series I could possibly link a spy to a mech would be big 0 (that being rodger smith and the Big 0) but thats pretty much it. Long story short, it doesnt take a genious to pilot a mech. If you look at mechwarrior series, many of the story line character (pick up a novel if you will) were more based towards all kinds of combat. I wouldnt be as to say that spy's would pilot top end mechs, its just silly.
Personally, if mechs do follow through, and spies get mechs, they should REALLY reconsider changing there name, its really quite missleading. maybe name them (techitions) or (Gadgeteer) or (Overly smart person)
PS, I play spy and PE equally, I just think Spy's dont need any more toys ;) and stealth is just kinda lamer for PE's
evangellion wasn't true mech but shhhh no spoilers ;) heh
Well we dont' reallly have any real mechs to compare to so it's really hard to say. Maybe about the only thing I could compare it to is someone trying to fly a space shuttle solo right now.
Unless it was something like gasaraki that could take in the shape of the land and give you routes it could take like multiple choice so you only have to controlt he arms and torso. But controlling a mobile mech to walk fwd.and then control the weapons or arms. Being able to read the gauges and adjust for stability on the ground seems to me would take a MASSIVE amount of concentration and intelligence.
I still stick with the PEs should be able to use a forum of everything but never achieve the top ends. This is your life. This is your destiny. But maybe it should be easiest for PEs to fight against mechs ;)
Q`alooaith
11-04-04, 03:46
Rember battle tech mech's do all the walking, you just set the throttle..
Hmm... I rememer playing a serie of games time ago with exclusively mech combat. How was it called... Mech Warrior?
You were a mercenary hired for some missions, with companions or alone, and you could buy different mechs and upgrade them accordingly with your necessities. Some missions required light but fast mechs, others you needed a strong team and heavily armored mechs.
It was fun.
Q`alooaith
11-04-04, 03:56
Mechwarroir 2 mercs, yea that was great fun..
There was one mission where you got tricked though on the intel, couldn't change your mech at all and had to run away in a heavy mech to a safe area to get away..
http://www20.tomshardware.com/game/200303011/images/con02.jpg
And click below to find proof mechs will be spy only
http://www.whipped.me.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=3 (http://www.whipped.me.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=3)
:D
Q`alooaith
11-04-04, 04:00
I got a pre order of that game..
anyway, spy's need toy's, but they should have to "gimp" their combat skill's to use them..
I think it would be cool to have OP fights in two stages.
One stage in the surface, outside of the OP with loads of vehicles, mechs, aircrafts and infantry fighting.
And a second stage inside the facilities, kinda like guerrilla combat, only for infantry and special assault teams.
Spies would shine in the vehicle department, it would be worth to specialize purely in mechs.
Clive tombstone
11-04-04, 04:26
ok amsfest, here we go
a little heavygear info on how there mechs work
Heavy Gear Components
Cockpit
A single pilot is seated in the torso, secured by an X-shaped belt or locks which attach to the pilot suit. Because of the cramped conditions, the pilot's head is often housed within the Gear's own head module.
The control system consists of a pair of joysticks and foot pedals. Located on the arms of the seat, the complex joysticks sport a variety of buttons and thumb-switches. A combination of switch, button and stick movements are converted by the CPU into body motion routines called Macromoves. The CPU itself is a sophisticated Neural Network (NNet) housed in an armoured compartment under the seat.
Information Display
Using laser-crystal screens within the helmet, a Virtual Reality (VR) system allows the pilot to see as if the cockpit were open to the outside. This is achieved by the visual sub-processor (ViSup), which analyses data from a Gear's sensors and then updates the display. Other useful information, such as target IDs and ranges, is overlaid on the VR landscape. The more advanced helmets have retinal holoprojectors that send the image directly into the eye.
Sensors
The main sensor system is a cluster of omnicameras on the Gear's head. Most Gears have one main camera together with laser rangefinders for gauging distance. Various other sensors on the Gear's body allow the CPU to keep track of posture and movement. In addtion, a gyroscope behind the pilot seat helps to maintain balance.
V-Engine
The Gear's main power source an internal combustion engine known as the V-engine. Mounted like a backpack behind the Gear, it has an attached, armoured "skirt" that serves as the fuel tank. The engine runs best on gasoline and kerosene, although Gears can run with reduced efficiency on natural gas, alcohol, machine oil and liquid rocket fuel.
Movement
The humanoid shape of a Gear allows it to walk and run as a human would. However, most Gears have an additional mode known as the Secondary Movement System (SMS). This consists of a set of wheels or treads under the Gear's feet, which allow it to perform skating motions to increase its speed. However, the wheels have low ground clearance and are only useful on flat, hard surfaces.
Armour
Many parts of a Gear have at least a few centimeters of alloy and ceramic composite armour. The torso, the head and the engine have the most protection, while armoured casings cover the shoulders, arms and legs. However, a Gear's flexible joints are often poorly protected and present weaknesses which can be exploited by an experienced gunner.
Weapons
A Gear's humanoid form allows it to carry a variety of weapons. The main weapon is usually a hand-held rifle, and the flexibility of a Gear's hands allow it to drop and pick up weapons on the field. To complement the rifle, an indirect-fire system such as rockets or mortars are mounted on the shoulder or back. Additional weapons such as vibroblades and grenades can be attached to hardpoints on the hip plates or legs.
here is a small cockpit of a heavygear including pilot (its a modle kit, i got one of it too, its uber sweet)
http://www.dp9.com/fusion/pics/cockpitinplace.jpg
Beleave me when I say this, the controls arnt as hard as you think, because the gears rely on a onboard computer (like ALL mechs) movement is drasically simplified. of course there are harder control setups like this mechwarrior movie clip pic
http://ppc.warhawkenterprises.com/mw4pics/displays.jpg
Most of those buttons though, are used in a startup proccess.
One thing that anyone has to relize about mechs is that they take TRAINING (come say it with me T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G very good ) of course you need to know how to pilot one, it doesnt mean you have to be stupidly smart, nor a genious
Now here is the juicy part.... http://www.capcom.com/SB/screenshots/screen11.jpg
This is steel battalion, Im one of the few people lucky enough to play it (at my friends house, the rich bastard :D ) I can say, my SAT scores were 1000 flat, and my GPA in Highschool was average, but I could play steel battalion better than most, and that game is supposed to be the closest thing to the REAL thing (if there ever will be) heres the controller for more proof
http://www.capcom.com/newsletter/sb.jpg
note if you want to play this, be prepared to cough up 200 dolars, friggin stupid price, awsome game.
EDIT: BTW, if you havnt noticed, im a huge mech junki :p
Mech's ideally want a light, agile, intelligent pilot. You stick a tank in a mech and it's going to have to do extra work to get anywhere. Thus I agree that spies are the ideal class to pilot mechs if they were introduced.
And what would be the point in putting a tank inside a mech anyway - the idea of a mech is to enhance the occupants combat abilities - tanks can already fight on the ground, close or long range and soak up damage - even more so if there's a PPU around.
I got a pre order of that game..
anyway, spy's need toy's, but they should have to "gimp" their combat skill's to use them..
What the hell are you on about? What else are you going to be doing while piloting a mech? "Oh excuse me while I stop my mech, open the cockpit and take an aimed shot with my Silent Hunter" - I don't think so somehow.
Athon Solo
I just think Spy's dont need any more toysApart from stealth 3 and the obliterator there ISNT ANYTHING thats only usable by spies. Now thats enough toys? o_O
metalangel
11-04-04, 14:30
Errr, so, did the pilots die in battle inside the Warbots, or did they die of starvation/suffocation/boredom inside them?
Also, my understanding was that DoY used Warbots, while NC used armoured GenTanks and hovertanks (why the hell can't we buy those?)
Forget Mechwarrior Mercenaries, you want the ORIGINAL PC version, 16 colours of 3D, baby!
http://www.nvkz.kuzbass.net/gazzzeta/s/144_31.gif
When I was like 9, this was the coolest game that ever existed. That Jenner is about to get a good hard raping by the player's Phoenix Hawk.
Apart from stealth 3 and the obliterator there ..... Now thats enough toys?
Holo Vests, Hacknet, Drones, Construction .....
I'm sure there will be more come DoY.
Holo Vests, Hacknet, Drones, Construction .....
I'm sure there will be more come DoY.
Holo Vests dont work, are only on the ts and even if they would work, they would be completely useless.
Hacknet also isnt ingame yet and its for hackers, not for spies afaik. And a PE can hack if he wants to. Just not as good as a spy.
Drones. Same thing. Pes can drone, just not as good.
Construction. Pes can construct as good as spies. i.e. cap all non rares and build damn good rare stuff.
Sure they can if they want, but to be the best, you gotta be a spy.
Therefore looking at it in that light, the things I mentioned are only preferable if you are a Spy class.
Hacknet + Holovests not ingame? Well neither are the Mechs....
Q`alooaith
11-04-04, 17:34
What the hell are you on about? What else are you going to be doing while piloting a mech? "Oh excuse me while I stop my mech, open the cockpit and take an aimed shot with my Silent Hunter" - I don't think so somehow.
Athon Solo
Athon, that's all well and good, but rember there are some places where vehical's can not go..
And your not alway's going to be in your mech yes, somtimes you'll be on foot, like when youre heading to an ASG, or somone blew up your ride...
Though I loved the Mechwarrior series, it failed greatly as a mech simulation in that the Mech's are driven like a tank or large truck, and not as a bipedial robot. The big missing element is the lack of a side-step, aka strifing. Heavy Gear has some interesting points and allow you to strife, but I have never really played that game and can't really comment on the contol aspects of it. Though Clive Tombstone's heavy metal lesson doesn't look much different then what is presented in Mechwarrior.
Anyways, as to the NC part, I think we can all agree that to give the best performance in a mech the controls need to be as closely linked to the pilot as possible. Seeing all Spies have a HUD grafted to their face, I can see no class better in NC to symbolise the joining of flesh and machine.
In addition, NC has a pretense that PSI and TECH aspects directly oppose each other. Sure some PSI power add to tech orintated skills, but all hack implants reduce PSI ability, and many PSI implants reduce Hack abilities.
Spies have less PSI ability then PEs, ergo Spies are closer to tech then PEs.
PS-Yes I know Gentanks have very low PSI, but I see this as a reflections that they were "grown" in labs and are basically flesh-and-blood machines.
'Mechs in MechWarrior can strafe, you just turn the torso around. Heavy Gear annoys me because they're not really 'Mechs, the weapons are external rather than built in, they have hands, and they don't even run properly, they just slide.
Btw @ Clive: If you read up on the BattleTech history, they use neural interfaces to control a lot of the systems. They key one being the gyros to keep the 'Mech balanced. Since that would require a massive amount of CPU power, they're connected to the pilot instead and he regulates it with his natural balance.
Aziraphale
11-04-04, 21:50
Mechs in NC...oh my god that would be fucking sexy.
*masturbates longingly*
Mechs in NC...oh my god that would be fucking sexy. :wtf:
Humm; Mind you some people really liked that Drom stripper in PP. I wonder if they would like a WB in a teddy. :lol:
Clive tombstone
12-04-04, 02:46
Ok, once again, Yes Mech warrior has neural synaptics, and is used for targeting and hud, but besides that, movment and actual targeting take actual action.
Scikar 'Mechs in MechWarrior can strafe, you just turn the torso around. Heavy Gear annoys me because they're not really 'Mechs, the weapons are external rather than built in, they have hands, and they don't even run properly, they just slide
Not true, heavy Gear has by far the closest "human movment system" by far. And they DO run, and walk. its true, they do as you say "slide" which is actually there secondary movment system, they actually DO run, as well as change possitions from crouch to prone and crawling in prone mode (note this feature is HG2 only) there SMS is a ue of tred or wheels placed behind the ball of the gears foot, which allows when there legs to lock, a sort of "skiing mode" because of there footpads design type.
Mech's ideally want a light, agile, intelligent pilot. You stick a tank in a mech and it's going to have to do extra work to get anywhere. Thus I agree that spies are the ideal class to pilot mechs if they were introduced. for one thing, If I was to start right now, on how both classes conflict with each other and a tradeskiller class and a Dex soldier would have been more effiecient. but Im not going there it would be off topic (sorta like I am now :p) I can It would be fare if they make a mech, that is should be atainable (IE availability to pilot) for the spies and PE's equally , as compromise usually solves a problem, anywho look at this. (I like the pictures anywho if there off topic to anyone, they just look awsome :D) )
ok, heres some concept art of A.) private Eyehttp://www.neocroncentral.net/images/gallery/albums/conceptart/conprivateeye_big.gif
now heres the spy concept art http://www.neocroncentral.net/images/gallery/albums/conceptart/conspy_class_big.gif
one BIG thing we have to take into acount IF mechs are ever actually put into service, is the fact of what form of controls will the mech take for RP sake im guessing. Remembering that this is a VEHICLE, and not a DRONE, the mech will NOT be relying on drone combat to work.
This sorta brings me back to the general requirements to use ANY vehicle being Intelegence, seeing how no subskill from intelegence actually aplies to vehicle use, it bewilders me to think why they did this at all. and not dex. REALLY a vehicle only requires common sense to drive (IE: I have the choice to A.) drive to my destination, or B.) Go 90+ into a tree.)
But me saying ANYTHING about this will probably, and most likly not change anything, so off that topic.
here is a mech photo from a while ago.http://www.neocronnetwork.de/gallery/extra/mechbot.jpg This is the ONLY supposid mech besides a warbot to be in game, to bad it was trash (or is it :wtf: )
To say the least, I know there is no clean outcome for this discussion. I want to say more, but I know I will be stomping on some peoples feet by doing so.
Dang Clive, your posts are so big, it takes an hour to scroll through them! :lol:
But really, your concept ideas are pretty good, but a bit low tech for NC. In a world of nanites and fusion power, bulky tech is not a sign of expertise. BTW did you draw the pictures yourself?
As to the Spy class being both for trade skills and dex combat, when it comes to capping a character, you can't really do both. You have to choose either to gimp your trade ability to max your combat ability, or vica-versa. So there is no need for spy to be split in to different classes.
Clive tombstone
12-04-04, 07:01
Note, those are NOT my pictures, but concept art from the fine artists at KK (or so I beleave) Admitably i try to improve my ownm work.
I do agree about the "tech" factor about NC, Im aiming a bit low (I play heavygear allot, and those "mechs" are close to reality as you can get really) Heavy gears mechs, if you read the previous post, use a V engine, which can run on gasoline or other forms of fuel. But since there are fusion engins as well as nanites, this changes things quite a bit, Thank you for looking over my theories, I design mechs and mechanicle features for some of me associates that are working on a game, anywho. I do agree, spies have a knack for gadgets, as do Pe's,to tanks and then monks, but remember, I shouldnt have been so rash, but still I hope that mechs DO make there way into neocron, since im sorta a mech freak as so Ive shown you all :D .I just want most of my characters to be able to use them (including my PE :D )
I like this thread allot heh. I would like to see more views
Aziraphale
12-04-04, 10:36
:o was that mech ingame pic geniune? Have they removed it from the game or something? :(
It was supposedly something a GM was driving around very early on...left it alone so someone got the picture.
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