View Full Version : Anti-stealth eye implant
This may have been mentioned before, but I think there should be an eye implant that sees through a person's stealth effect. Relying on a PPU and True Sight is really lame, because
A. PPUs aren't always around.
B. Not very many PPU's have True Sight.
C. True Sight is horribly underpowered and doesn't do much of anything with its horrible range.
Because of this, stealthers basically run around and stealth without any worries, and its especially annoying at op fights when you see a lot of blue sparklies running around that you can't hit. Stealthing just doesn't have a viable countermeasure IMO.
The requirements would be INT and DEX, and it would have the same requirements as the stealth devices themselves. Thusly they would only be used by PEs and Spys, and not tanks (who aren't stealthers), and monks (who have True Sight Sanctum, which needs to be buffed up because the range on it is pitifully short).
There could be 3 different levels, with 1 giving the shortest range and 3 giving the longest. The PE would only be able to use the level 1 implant, or the level 2 but gimped, and the level 3 would be spy only because of the requirements.
The only benefit would be to see stealthed runners, nothing else. There could possibly be a hit to hack and maybe a minor hit to combat ability to balance it out further. It would also be a high level implant drop such as the other lvl 3 implants, so they're a little harder to come by instead of just getting one at the store.
What say you?
Yes but stealth need to make avatars invisible instead of blue sparkles. http://kimagure.cutegirl.jp/usa_niko.gif
This will probably have all the tanks up in arms but I agree.
Tanks shouldn't have this, but it would allow them to follow their spy or PE friends to chase down a stealther.
With the exception of PE's stealth is all that keeps most spies alive. You want someone an option to disable that? No.
PPU has to be within in range to trigger the destealthing, which is fair. There is nothing fair about this eye.
I agree but make it a MC5 dropped rare or it should have major negaitve effects on sub-skills ie -100 RC/ -100 MC etc.
Even making it a lv 3 implant everyone and his uncle will have one and that will nerf the spy class as stealth is there only real defence.
PE class should not be able to use even stealth 1 as there resists and armour are high enough so they dont need stealth.
I think ATM that PE''s are abusing the stealth.
Case in point at a op war the other night there were about 8 "smoke clouds"
running around the op and when they un-stealthed all were PE's using uber pistols.
By the way i was the poor spy that was laying on the floor looking at the
8 PE's that just un-stealthed behind me :lol:
I agree but make it a MC5 dropped rare or it should have major negaitve effects on sub-skills ie -100 RC/ -100 MC etc.
That would be pointless because you wouldn't be able to attack the stealther. What good is being able to see through stealth if the person is still invinicble? Having it drop as an MC5 rare is too much as well.
People that don't have the anti-stealth eye but are teamed with one still wouldn't have the benefits of the person wearing it. Only the player with it equipped would be able to attack, so it would be a spy vs spy/pe thing, or a pe vs spy/pe deal from short range.
I think its fair to have a PE or Spy alone with it equipped to counter a stealther.
And the range the PPU has to be in is way, WAY too short.
instead of making the person visable, how bout an eye that just gives an outline of a stealthed person, and no bonuses to anything else.
level one gives a slight outline
two a more darker outline
three more like a shadow
but you still cant lock on to a stealthed target, just get an idea of where the target is, but with the sacrifice of losing PC/RC from your current eye.
i dont think anyone will use that. it would be dex or int based with high T-C rating and give no bonus but "see stealters". i dont think many ppl would change it with his RCE3, PCE3 or SCE4.
They would if you're in an op fight, or if they already cap damage on the weapon they have without the need of the rifle/pistol eye.
No because you can see where they are going, and you only have to wait until they unstealth and they are dead. They can't restealth in time.
Same deal. The Eye would have to gimp the character in such a way that using it gives negative effects. Say negative effects to Rifle/Pistol/Hack, also the person has to stand still for it to activate.
I like it, not having the bonuses from the r-c or p-c eye would be realy gimpy
for any PE or spy, so you would have to be a pretty dedicated stealther-
hunter to bother putting it in. Adds flavour instead of just nerfing the fuck
out of it. I like Lexxuks idea as well, making them slightly more visible the
better eye you have and the ability to shooting stealthers.
QUOTE :
People that don't have the anti-stealth eye but are teamed with one still
wouldn't have the benefits of the person wearing it. Only the player with it equipped would be able to attack, so it would be a spy vs spy/pe thing, or a pe vs spy/pe deal from short range.
OK mabye i dont see the big picture but if you have a pe/spy with the eye then he can relay the info to the tank that is with him as to where the spy is and (AOE weapon/ flame thrower) one dead stealthed spy.
Devils Grace
08-04-04, 11:15
hmmm no
High INT and DEX and if u dont want tanks to use it will mean that only SPy's and PE's will use them
so in fact the stealthing whores will be hunting themselves
tho i dont agree wih some setups some ppl do, so they can use stealth 2 (PE'S) but its their style
theres numeros ways to catch a stealther, all u have to do is adpat and prevail
I agree but make it a MC5 dropped rare or it should have major negaitve effects on sub-skills ie -100 RC/ -100 MC etc.
Even making it a lv 3 implant everyone and his uncle will have one and that will nerf the spy class as stealth is there only real defence.
PE class should not be able to use even stealth 1 as there resists and armour are high enough so they dont need stealth.
I think ATM that PE''s are abusing the stealth.
Case in point at a op war the other night there were about 8 "smoke clouds"
running around the op and when they un-stealthed all were PE's using uber pistols.
By the way i was the poor spy that was laying on the floor looking at the
8 PE's that just un-stealthed behind me :lol:
Have you ever played a capped PE? I notice you only joined the forum a couple of months ago.
Sorry but your example doesn't hold water.
1. If 8 PE's ran up to you, you'd be dead anyway, stealth or not.
2. You should of camped outside the op or kept close to a PPU.
3. You should of had a PPU keeping true sight up.
When your fighting in big groups with PPU's PE's are the least effective class.
PE's are best suited for 1 on 1. Stealth gives the ability to escape when you are greatly outnumbered.
Spies have range as an advantage when attacking (yes PE's can you rifles, but not as well). They also have stealth to escape when things are too hot.
People always complain about PE's and stealth. Every time I attack a spy they stealth without even bothering to fight first. I would say if PE's are abusing it then so are spies.
QUOTE :
OK mabye i dont see the big picture but if you have a pe/spy with the eye then he can relay the info to the tank that is with him as to where the spy is and (AOE weapon/ flame thrower) one dead stealthed spy.
Edit: You seem to get it now :)
Imagine CM are having trouble with a stealth PKer for hours.
Would be worth one of their spies swapping eyes and leading the team on a hunt.
That would be pointless because you wouldn't be able to attack the stealther. What good is being able to see through stealth if the person is still invinicble? Having it drop as an MC5 rare is too much as well.
People that don't have the anti-stealth eye but are teamed with one still wouldn't have the benefits of the person wearing it. Only the player with it equipped would be able to attack, so it would be a spy vs spy/pe thing, or a pe vs spy/pe deal from short range.
I think its fair to have a PE or Spy alone with it equipped to counter a stealther.
And the range the PPU has to be in is way, WAY too short.
I think the point is to use it to chase people down. If one person in the team can lead the way, then the stealth doesn't get a chance to hide in a corner and heal up.
I'm a stealth PE and I'm up for it. I have a lot more trouble with people (especially spies) stealthing away from me than stealth saving my life.
I'm not that bothered about getting killed, I'd just prefer to stay alive so I don't waste valuable fighting time getting poked etc :)
Firstly NO, remove Stealth from PE's, leave it with spies.
I like it, not having the bonuses from the r-c or p-c eye would be realy gimpy
for any PE or spy, so you would have to be a pretty dedicated stealther-
hunter to bother putting it in. Adds flavour instead of just nerfing the fuck
out of it. I like Lexxuks idea as well, making them slightly more visible the
better eye you have and the ability to shooting stealthers.
what about a monk or tank, neither class have an dedicated eye unless ur melee ofc.
Stealth is something i feel spies should have and in most cases need, the Pe on the other hand has as someone already stated the con and armor and psi to survive and win against any class without the use of stealth
most people know my feelings on stealthing PE's, remove their ability to exploit stealth or increase the INT req to like 80 for stealth one so the whores cant use it
High INT and DEX and if u dont want tanks to use it will mean that only SPy's and PE's will use them
so in fact the stealthing whores will be hunting themselves
Exactly. Making it so all classes could use it would be unfair because not all classes can use stealth. Its on the same principle that APU monks can counteract PPU monk's heals and buffs, while others can't (at least reliably). Being able to see through and attack sleathers should be something specialized, and it makes no sense for someone to see through anti-stealth that can't stealth themselves.
I like the idea very much.
At the moment the true sight really sucks, cause if you just run thrugh stealthed, nothing happens. it should be instant.
As for the stelthbreaker eye, it would be awesome. But you shouldnt be able to atack the stealther, cause he cant fight back. Giving directions to fellow AOE users is a good measure. Gives the stealther still the chance to run, but only to flee, not to bug others. And i know what i am talking about, cause i bug heaps of people with my stealther :D
And a stealthe eye spy, true sight PPU combo would be the death of every spy.
I am not afraid it will cost too many stealther lives, cause you have to be spezialized for that exact purpose. its not like every spy will now use the eye, as not every spy uses an obliberator.
So thumbs up from me, i like the diversity.
Regards
Xaru
P.S.: And yes, a level 1 eye should only be able to see a lvl 1 stealther. This would make obliberator users safe unless there would be a rare eye aswell :) Yes, i like a large rare pool with lots and lots of junk parts, Just looks good in my tech part statistics :lol:
Exactly. Making it so all classes could use it would be unfair because not all classes can use stealth. Its on the same principle that APU monks can counteract PPU monk's heals and buffs, while others can't (at least reliably). Being able to see through and attack sleathers should be something specialized, and it makes no sense for someone to see through anti-stealth that can't stealth themselves.
better idea, lets just not bother with the eyes and remove stealth from PE's, infact why dont KK just delete all the bastard PE's.
Stigmata = 3 accounts, no PE's
I think this may be a good idea, the downsides would be could the eye user still attack the stealther? This would not be fair at all. Remember the spy/PE could not return fire. If the eye just made it so that it was easier to follow the spy/PE, perhaps changing the blue mist to a more solid form, then great. Perhaps the spy/PE would blink in and out of mist/normal form.
I think I shall vote no, not because the idea isn't a good one, just the way the thread starter looks like he wants it implemented, so that they can target those spies at ops. If the spy/PE character could still fire their weapons when stealthed, I would be all for a hit box, but if you are close enough you can still hit the character with most weapons, area effect and barrel spells.
If the eyes were implemented, then they should carry at least the same TC requirements as the stealth devices, if not 10 higher. (10 a random number to make the eyes more technologically advanced than the tools they are defeating.)
Ransom
edit:Xaru summed it up for me too :)
Spies shouldn't be able to stealth without some sort of countermeasure either, regardless of what they do with stealth and PEs. Giving spies the free ability to be invincible, sightless, and give intel during op fights with no viable countermeasure is highly unbalanced to me.
It being a specialized set up would mean only special spies and PEs (short range) would be able to counter stealth, so its not like every spy and PE you see is going to blow you away when stealthed.
Every measure needs a viable countermeasure.
Devils Grace
08-04-04, 12:01
having PE's that use stealth one is one thing
using stealth 2 = pussys
mocks on that kims, kuz the laughs are worthwhile when they drop dead, and start talking shit about how good they are in one on one.
the Eye would only be viable if the negative efects should be prettty harsh like those in the Gloves
up to this moment the benefits for using Eyes arent that important, so all ppl will use the stealth Eye
there is nottin worng with stealth, in fact i think it was one of the best ideas ~kk had in (insert data = long time) the problem is who uses it and how
I understand your point Lanigav, but it seems you want the spies to be visible and defenseless. I don't know if you have used a spy, I expect you have, but you may not have been unlucky enough to fight someone that knew how to fight a stealther, you can hit them. Of course you don't have the opportunity to see their health bar go down.
Make them visible, sure, but not more vulnerable, unless they can retaliate. If they are visible you can follow them, wait until their stealth flickers off, and then shoot them. Or they would probably decide to flicker off themselves :lol:
Ransom
Perhaps instead of an eye, you would hold some sort of tool like a speed gun/scanner and this would let you follow them, but not use a weapon at the same time.
Spies shouldn't be able to stealth without some sort of countermeasure either, regardless of what they do with stealth and PEs. Giving spies the free ability to be invincible, sightless, and give intel during op fights with no viable countermeasure is highly unbalanced to me.
It being a specialized set up would mean only special spies and PEs (short range) would be able to counter stealth, so its not like every spy and PE you see is going to blow you away when stealthed.
Every measure needs a viable countermeasure.
spis in most cases 9/10 or 99/100 are so weak its un-believable, the only ones who are formidable are those that drug to use shelter and have the inq setup, droners and riflers in general dont use this setup because they are hoping not to be hit, which is why they need stealth.
pistol spies on the other hand use the inq/shelter setup in most cases, and are not so reliant on stealth, but the PE regardless of rifles or pistols DO NOT NEED stealth, less dmg from HL/CS/FA than any other class (cept ppu)
take stealth from PEs and take para from everyone and i'll be a happy person
(i play a hightech PE, no need for stealth, a PE can take 3+ mags of CS without a heal, if you cant get away or fight back in that time your a pretty sucky PE)
take stealth from PEs and take para from everyone and i'll be a happy person
(i play a hightech PE, no need for steahth)
exactly what i want in this game
better idea, lets just not bother with the eyes and remove stealth from PE's, infact why dont KK just delete all the bastard PE's.
Stigmata = 3 accounts, no PE's
Yeah remove PE's, remove monks as people have said before that magic doesn't fit in with the environment of the game, then get rid of tanks because if the monks weren't there then no-one created them.
Lets all play spies. Guess the game would be balanced....
I think its sad that people will just turn around and say I don't like something so it shouldn't be there. World would be a boring place if that happened..
take stealth from PEs and take para from everyone and i'll be a happy person
(i play a hightech PE, no need for stealth, a PE can take 3+ mags of CS without a heal, if you cant get away or fight back in that time your a pretty sucky PE)
Thats the best idea ive heard all day :) :)
i dunno why PEs even abuse it like they do, you'll NEVER win a fight by being a stealth whore
a capped tl 3 heal or medkits and a tank heal will outheal the damage put on you by said PEs
whereas i can hit them for 60+ damage each time they reveal with my judge and then hit em with a parabolt (specially reserved for stealthers) or a damageboost and follow em.
a CS tank should be able to do 120 or more damage per time they reveal
awkward silence
08-04-04, 12:35
I am proud to say I AM a stealth whore.
Before you start criticizing us what about you tanks and apus who wont fight without a butt buddy ppu. !!
Thanks littleTerror =) i love the saying ''butt buddy ppu''.
[ edited ]
When ppus are going to be out of the game then i think PE's could be without stealth.
Yeh, if anything remove the ability to stealth from a PE, or make the requirements for stealth 1 harder for a PE (so they have to really want to use it and then it affects other aspects of the PE's defence)
But let's not have anything else to change the use of stealth for a Spy. We have no other defence (armour/health is poor) and would end up dead far quicker than we already do.
The role of a stealth spy is to give info to their clan in OP wars, or to rifle from distance and use stealth as a means to escape. Every class should not be able to see a stealthed spy, so having a PPU the only one that can un-stealth a spy is balanced in my opinion (but this is from a spy!)
putting a clip of ammo in you opponents head > stealthing around like a bitch pissing everyone off
awkward silence
08-04-04, 12:44
I use stealth to mainly escape if a dude with a butt buddy is attacking meh.
Devils Grace
08-04-04, 12:50
I am proud to say I AM a stealth whore.
Before you start criticizing us what about you tanks and apus who wont fight without a butt buddy ppu. !!
Thanks littleTerror =) i love the saying ''butt buddy ppu''.
God damn lamers look at your own tactics and stop this hypocricy.
When ppus are going to be out of the game then i think PE's could be without stealth.
fine remove PSI skill from PE's and every other class (non PSI class) and u can use stealth 3 or obliterator for all i care
what u dont get is that using stealth 1 is nice, gimp to use stealth 2 like u do is pussyness
i prefer the antishock + tl3 heal method personally but i usually end up dead anyway.
the thing is i dont give a crap, fighting is fun and theres not enough of it so when theres a fight on im not gonna run away from it.
if im gonna use stealth its to get my belt back so i can fight again :lol:
and @ DG if they cant get away with a stealth 1 then they dont deserve stealth 2 8|
Please leave the "stealth whore" and "butt buddy" comments out of my thread, kthx.
This isn't here to question the validity and "moral" use of stealth, but my idea as a countermeasure. Either comment constructively and cut the crappy flames out or don't post here.
I use stealth to mainly escape if a dude with a butt buddy is attacking meh.
thats bollocks tbh, u use it because ur shit, like littleterror, who is also shit and like most of you ************ PE's who stealth around an OP for 3 hours
Yeah remove PE's, remove monks as people have said before that magic doesn't fit in with the environment of the game, then get rid of tanks because if the monks weren't there then no-one created them.
Lets all play spies. Guess the game would be balanced....
I think its sad that people will just turn around and say I don't like something so it shouldn't be there. World would be a boring place if that happened..
it was a [ edited ], i truely hate PE's, probably because of stealth, if you removed it from a PE perhaps i would make one.
ok, i don't think the eyes would work, PEs and spys wouldnt be able to use em cause they need the +15 weaponskill, tanks and monks would depending on the reqs, PEs are already the most useless class with spys in a close second (talking pvp here) to have around and something like this for other classes would make them pretty much 100% useless.
the ONLY things going for them atm in the opp war fronts are hacking and stealthing (nothing wrong with PEs stealthing at opp wars imo as ppus tend to ignore them as long as they do it in the right circumstances, stealthing repetedly in direct combat is ********, ducking out of a melee to consolidate for a few moments is fine), with these eyes PEs would lose their main opp war advantage, and another important task would be given to the already more important class
Yes.
I like it as long as the range is limited.
Its also good because to use the imp you are sacraficing combat abilites and/or int.
Devils Grace
08-04-04, 13:19
PEs are already the most useless class with spys in a close second (talking pvp here) to have around and something like this for other classes would make them pretty much 100% useless.
dont agree
i think ppls problem is that they choose a PE as a char and they want to play if they were like a Tank or APU, and thats totally wrong
ppl that play PE's they have to know that they will be loners, kuz yes PE are jack of all trades so they are to much independent of the rest of the classes
Spys are great trade skillers and long range fighters, they werent made to fight one on one, so they should complain if a tank drops them in 2 hits, they shouldnt be there in the 1st place
every class have their role
ppl should stop trying to make them other thing then what they really are, and thats the real problem
so at the end realising that they cant, they try to change things in game in order to be what they want.
ppl are trying to make the game change to fit on what they think it should be instead of playing the game adapting to what the game is
no because everyone will have it and it will make stealth more or less useless, and if one person out of about 5 has the implant in, can see the stealther and starts shooting, then EVERYONE else will know where the stealther is and follow him, i say stop trying to nerf stealth, just because a small amount of the community are getting the better hand over you by stealthing why should it be nerfed just so you guys get to kill them and for the stealthers to be fucked.
i see what your saying dg but i think every class should have a role in pvp.
atm its ok with PEs having hacking and not having to bitch for buffs.
apus and tanks being damage takers/dealers etc
give those eyes to other classes with only minor gimpage and you may as well take steath out cause you wont see many people without one.
why even concider this as highering the level 1 int req to 75 will do a much better job.
none of my post probally makes much sence so i'll dumb it down to a message i can get across more easily:
take stealth from PEs
it was a [edited for consistancy], i truely hate PE's, probably because of stealth, if you removed it from a PE perhaps i would make one.
lol
Someone got out of the wrong side of bed.
You can go ahead and make a PE now. You don't have to use it.
It matches my play style most of the time so I do use it.
I get a buzz out of being outnumbered and outgunned, I can use stealth to sneak around an pick off the people that stray from the pack hunting me.
I've got a special forces chip in my head and thats what special forces do...
It doesn't mean I always have to run in fire one shot and run out. To use it properly, as it was intended takes patience.
The thing that makes people abuse it is lack if patience. They want to get straight back in and attack a superior force, knowing they can stealth out and escape.
Sometimes yeah I stealth around annoying people, but thats either people I know or people I want to annoy :p
lol
Someone got out of the wrong side of bed.
You can go ahead and make a PE now. You don't have to use it.
It matches my play style most of the time so I do use it.
I get a buzz out of being outnumbered and outgunned, I can use stealth to sneak around an pick off the people that stray from the pack hunting me.
I've got a special forces chip in my head and thats what special forces do...
It doesn't mean I always have to run in fire one shot and run out. To use it properly, as it was intended takes patience.
The thing that makes people abuse it is lack if patience. They want to get straight back in and attack a superior force, knowing they can stealth out and escape.
Sometimes yeah I stealth around annoying people, but thats either people I know or people I want to annoy :p
99% of PE's run in fire one shot and run out - FACT
if you are in the 1% then you are very much a minority.
this is why i think a PE should not use stealth.
99% of PE's run in fire one shot and run out - FACT
if you are in the 1% then you are very much a minority.
this is why i think a PE should not use stealth.
That must be specific to your server or something, I rarely if ever see this.
**edit: as for DGs opinion about what classes should be doing, KK has
already stated what classes should be like, and those are the terms we are
discussing around. If you have a different idea of how classes should be then
talk to KK and try to get them to change it, until they do that discussion is
kind of pointless.
98% abuse stealth actually
the other 1 % either dont use it at all or are lowtech
I actually find it amusing that so many people whine about stealthing PEs and
then they go into PP and cant fight more than three inches from the
zoneborder or with a ppu. Whats the difference between zonehopping and
stealth again? Ah right one is intended and one is a misfortunate problem due
to limitations in technology. Zonehopping to me is alot bigger problem than
stealthers, stealthers you can always hunt down, but zonehoppers just run
to their safezones after getting hit twice and then mouth of the rest of the
day but refuse to put their money where their mouth is.
i let my resists keep me alive and just fight, i dont often fight in pp1 cause i get barely playable fps there so most of my dueling is in nf, when im attacked or attacking outside it i dont use stealth as i would rather kill my opponent than escape.
i dont really have TOO much of a problem with most stealthers.
i just dont use it myself as i dont find it fun
Neat idea, but I agree only if stealth become actually invisiblity and not a happy little cloud of sparkles. O_o
Sounds good, but you shouldnt be able to shoot when u have that anti stealth eye "activated".
When its activated it should drain stamina or health (maybe cuz it causes xray).
So you can follow the stealther but you cant shoot him.
no because everyone will have it and it will make stealth more or less useless, and if one person out of about 5 has the implant in, can see the stealther and starts shooting, then EVERYONE else will know where the stealther is and follow him, i say stop trying to nerf stealth, just because a small amount of the community are getting the better hand over you by stealthing why should it be nerfed just so you guys get to kill them and for the stealthers to be fucked.
Well, like I said previously, it would be something that is PE/Spy only and would be specialized. Not every Tom, Dick, and yes, even Harry, would be able to use the eye implant, and you'd also lose the combat benefits of the standard eye implant.
The idea of it causing x-ray damage sounds interesting, but I think it would be pretty hard to balance. If you wear spy PA then it wouldn't do very much due to the large amount of x-ray resist. However, if you make the damage high enough to actually count on a PA using spy, then a non-PA using spy would probably die in less than 3 seconds of having it equipped. So I don't think it should cause x-ray damage or draining health.
I also still think that the user should able to damage the stealther. Perhaps meet midway and give an aiming penalty so the stealther would be harder to hit?
Devils Grace
08-04-04, 16:32
That must be specific to your server or something, I rarely if ever see this.
**edit: as for DGs opinion about what classes should be doing, KK has
already stated what classes should be like, and those are the terms we are
discussing around. If you have a different idea of how classes should be then
talk to KK and try to get them to change it, until they do that discussion is
kind of pointless.
[ edited ]
on topic
yes exactly my point, since u cant understand bad english, as ti is ur main language, when i can understand and its not even my language.
so im goin to try and simplify
i dont want anything change in classes (only para to be removed)
i dont want PE's loosing their ability to use stealth [ edited ]This game and this classes are all about speacialization
Yet some ppl think they should do more then that (and they have the right to ) but what they cant is asking for changes to make them viable, no SIR.
PE's are solo chars, and they are the best at what they do
SPys are trade skillers and long range fighters, yes they can use pistols, but they shouldnt cry when they die fast kuz of close combat. (yet they do)
If u wana have a HC PE u can , but dont ask things to change so they can cap or use the highest TL HC weapons.
Resuming i Dont want nottin changed about classes
U LOve PE's Fine, great class for solo, not so good in op's kuz they loose their importance, deal and live with that
did u understand or do u need me to send a squemetic, with graphics and shit, and some animations pointing out the topics..
Please stop ruining my thread with crap like that DG. If you disagree with him then fine, but I don't want this thread closed because of posts like that serving as flame bait.
If u wana have a HC PE u can , but dont ask things to change so they can cap or use the highest TL HC weapons.
heh i have a hc pe, he pwns at the level of any other char class :p
i agree with what you say about the classes, its kinda what i was trying to say but easier to understand (and im supposed to speak english as my first language o_O )
Devils Grace
08-04-04, 16:50
Please stop ruining my thread with crap like that DG. If you disagree with him then fine, but I don't want this thread closed because of posts like that serving as flame bait.
sorry lani
ok i will
only the 1st line is flame
dont consider it
DG - No, my primary language isnt english. Im swedish, if you look below my
avatar it says so quite clearly. Now, I only stated that KK has defined what
classes should be doing, and your definition isnt the same. Please feel free to
try to explain how that makes me a moron.
Devils Grace
08-04-04, 19:02
DG - No, my primary language isnt english. Im swedish, if you look below my
avatar it says so quite clearly. Now, I only stated that KK has defined what
classes should be doing, and your definition isnt the same. Please feel free to
try to explain how that makes me a moron.
[ edited ]
I agree there should be an eye like this but it shouldn't unstealth the person. With the anti-stealth eye you should be able to see and target the person, but no one else should.
Also, antisteath santcum is horrible. Its got bad range for one, and come on, its like 297 psi to cast the damn thing. Either make the psi cost low or increase the range by a hell of a lot.
Clownst0pper
08-04-04, 19:10
I did a thread ages ago about this. and included shit hot adobe photoshop pictures id done, to show the desired effect.
Looked brilliant, sure u can still hunt it down somewhere!
called usefull spy addtion? ;)
[ edited]
Actually you didnt, you said "you are a moron" then rambled about something
that you didnt want anything changed, which in turn doesnt have anything
to do with the post I wrote. Its very simple; KK stated that they have goals
with each characters in terms of their role in the game, you say that
characters should be something else, hence in terms of what this
game "should" be like you are wrong. And while we are discussing whos a
moron here maybe you should check out what ad hominem is, maybe that will
give you a clue as to why no one takes your posts seriously.
If i remeber correctly spys were mainly ment to be trade skillers and just sit in nc.
since everyone wanted a spy to hav a advantage to battle in the harsh world of nc thay gave more stuff to the spys.
i hav no proof on this so i could be wrong.
If i remeber correctly spys were mainly ment to be trade skillers and just sit in nc.
since everyone wanted a spy to hav a advantage to battle in the harsh world of nc thay gave more stuff to the spys.
i hav no proof on this so i could be wrong.Yeah.
And all tanks were meant to be great dumb lumps of tin with the intellignce of a mattress, that could barely move, took a week to aim anything and were used purely for monkeh Holy Lightning spammage target practice, and for small dogs to piss on.
What was your point again ... ;)
Devils Grace
08-04-04, 19:31
Actually you didnt, you said "[edited for consistancy]" then rambled about something
that you didnt want anything changed, which in turn doesnt have anything
to do with the post I wrote. Its very simple; KK stated that they have goals
with each characters in terms of their role in the game, you say that
characters should be something else, hence in terms of what this
game "should" be like you are wrong. And while we are discussing whos a
moron here maybe you should check out what ad hominem is, maybe that will
give you a clue as to why no one takes your posts seriously.
no ur wrong
i didnt said that i want chars changed on contraire, im bicthing kuz ppl want the chars changed to what they think they should be, so u either dont get it or there is some typo around (a really bad one, not the usuals i do) my post.
what i can say is that u said the following
that you didnt want anything changed
you say that chars should be sometin else
so make up ur mind, do i want it or not
once again
this game is all about speacialization, ppl want them to be soemtin diferent, wich they have the right to, but dont expect they be as good as the ones that perform that specific role.
and when they realise that they cant be, they come here and bicth to have them change to what they think they should be or to suit them better.
u have to adapt the game and the games hasnt to change kuz u feell like it
on a side note
do u think i give a flying poop to the rates, speacially the ones tha rumble sometin that its clear i didnt understand and dont have the cojones to sign and back up what they just said
i only keep that thing activated just to laugh at the thik minds, and to the "balls" some have when they know there inst any chance the other person to know.
[ edited ]
Yeah.
And all tanks were meant to be great dumb lumps of tin that can barely move, take a week to aim anything and are used purely for monkeh Holy Lightning spammage target practice.
What was your point again ... ;)
hehe true that.
point..........
well mainly that rade said kk had a base thought of how classes should be.
and now spys are able to engage combat when thay were ment to just trade.
so things are chaning and will always do so.
Get a room you two, for fuck's sake.
so make up ur mind, do i want it or not
[ edited ]. I stated that what you want is something else than KK
wanted. KKs vision as they stated it is not where the game is now, hence KK
wants to change it.
**edit: And sorry, I have no obligation to prove to you that even tho you
dont understand my posts they make sense.
[ edited ]
as you know, we are all working very hard on the VotR. The team consists of 12 members: reporters, translaters and other have developed many ideas and we are close to releasing the 1st VotR.
Anyhow, we'd like to ask for YOUR help:
We are looking for a new VotR logo
Info:
format/size:
best - as vector-graphic, as being free scaleable
otherwise - big enough to serve as a master/model (~640x480 +)
[ edited ]
u guys need to start taking this into DM. because its starting to go off topic and just flaming each others wording.
Devils Grace
08-04-04, 19:41
Oh god learn to read. I stated that what you want is something else than KK
wanted. KKs vision as they stated it is not where the game is now, hence KK
wants to change it.
jesus fucking sometin
do i need to go find the manual (outdated) and qoute the damn thing to u
besides some new toys nottin changed, nottin
spys are still weak, PE's are still jack's of all trades, average at everyting and not good specificly, apus are the damage dealers and weak, and tanks are dumb and strong.
and now spys are able to engage combat when thay were ment to just trade.
so things are chaning and will always do so.Well - to be honest even the "were meant to just trade" is something of a change too.
Spies originally had a range of DEX based armours (which got switched to STR based).
Additionally for a very long while the First Love was by far the most powerful and highest tech level gun in the game. (discounting Doom Beamer because of it's prohibitive RoF/aiming crapness)
jesus fucking sometin
do i need to go find the manual (outdated) and qoute the damn thing to u
besides some new toys nottin changed, nottin
spys are still weak, PE's are still jack's of all trades, average at everyting and not good specificly, apus are the damage dealers and weak, and tanks are dumb and strong.
Im not talking about the manual, KK posted a long description of their vision
for the role of each class (when was it.. 6 months ago? I dont remember). It
contained plenty of information on this issue and examples of what the
classes should be able to do. That clearly stated that KK had plans for
developing the roles for each class alot further beyond what we have now.
Well - to be honest even the "were meant to just trade" is something of a change too.
Spies originally had a range of DEX based armours (which got switched to STR based).
Additionally for a very long while the First Love was by far the most powerful and highest tech level gun in the game. (discounting Doom Beamer because of it's prohibitive RoF/aiming crapness)
i wish i had dex armor now :mad:
but is till hope for that change and theirs alot of over changes am hoping for but will it happen probly not :(
Shadow Dancer
08-04-04, 19:51
Contained plenty of information?
Not IMO. I read what they wrote. Alot of it was "pe is short range support with pistols and long range support with rifles. APU is mid-range support. Tank is front line fighter. PE is support with minor tradeskill. Monk is support with minor tradeskill"
Stuff like that. I don't consider that lots of information. It's still very vague to me IMO and doesn't go indepth enough.
Contained plenty of information?
Not IMO. I read what they wrote. Alot of it was "pe is short range support with pistols and long range support with rifles. APU is mid-range support. Tank is front line fighter. PE is support with minor tradeskill. Monk is support with minor tradeskill"
Stuff like that. I don't consider that lots of information. It's still very vague to me IMO and doesn't go indepth enough.
Well, I remember alot of specific stuff like tanks was supposed to have aggro
management to protect the weaker members of the group for example with
aggro nades etc. It was vague on some parts sure but what they did show
was that everyone was supposed to be valuable in a combat situation be it
pvm and pvp contrary to the "spies are just supposed to tradeskill" and "pes
are joats which shouldnt be in groups" attitudes that some people have.
Devils Grace
08-04-04, 20:03
it started here
someone said
PEs are already the most useless class with spys in a close second (talking pvp here) to have around and something like this for other classes would make them pretty much 100% useless.
and i said
Quote
"dont agree
i think ppls problem is that they choose a PE as a char and they want to play if they were like a Tank or APU, and thats totally wrong
ppl that play PE's they have to know that they will be loners, kuz yes PE are jack of all trades so they are to much independent of the rest of the classes
Spys are great trade skillers and long range fighters, they werent made to fight one on one, so they should complain if a tank drops them in 2 hits, they shouldnt be there in the 1st place
every class have their role
ppl should stop trying to make them other thing then what they really are, and thats the real problem
so at the end realising that they cant, they try to change things in game in order to be what they want.
ppl are trying to make the game change to fit on what they think it should be instead of playing the game adapting to what the game is"
u stated
Quote
"**edit: as for DGs opinion about what classes should be doing, KK has
already stated what classes should be like, and those are the terms we are
discussing around. If you have a different idea of how classes should be then
talk to KK and try to get them to change it, until they do that discussion is
kind of pointless."
i dont care about the future, i care how it is now, and what i said is present, its what u have to deal when u play now, today and tomorrow
[ edited ]
Shadow Dancer
08-04-04, 20:06
Well, I remember alot of specific stuff like tanks was supposed to have aggro
management to protect the weaker members of the group for example with
aggro nades etc. It was vague on some parts sure but what they did show
was that everyone was supposed to be valuable in a combat situation be it
pvm and pvp contrary to the "spies are just supposed to tradeskill" and "pes
are joats which shouldnt be in groups" attitudes that some people have.
Aggro management? 8| I don't remember that, sounds cool.
Except that with PPUs the whole "weaker party members" thing isn't really true. And if it's the tank's job to protect, he's certainly been beaten by the PPU. :p
But yes you're right, I do think they intended eveyrone to have a valuable and unique contribution.
The notion of an anti-stealth eye might work out okay if it was well balanced - too ineffective and it would be virtually useless, and too powerful and it would render stealth useless.
Anti-stealth in PlanetSide seemed to work fairly well: it drained stamina while activated so it could only be used for short intervals, the range was about 30+ feet or so, and when activated everything from that 30 foot boundary outward was totally fogged out. I used it often to hunt down stealthers. But stealthing was still quite useful - as represented by the fact that my stealther hunting was often in response to having just been killed by that stealther and me going back for some revenge. Anti-stealth worked well, but you had to use it selectively because of the limited duration and you also didnt want it up all the time anyway because otherwise you couldnt see what was happening around you at a greater distance. The other things to know about PlanetSide's stealth: you could target and shoot someone stealthed, stealthers were invisible unless shooting and only faintly visible when shooting (often i would die without ever locating the shimmer to shoot at), and i forget which it was but either stealth lasted a long time based on stamina or was an always-on device. Also, you could hack a base while stealthed, so it was common procedure to send an anti-stealther to the hack room to check for such people. Balance was further addressed by having stealthers very easy to kill, but since they could get the drop on you unexpectedly they could also kill you before you could react - often enough a stealther might kill a couple people before a squad waxed him. In general PS' stealth / anti-stealth felt balanced and seemed to work well.
Whereas in Dark Age of Camelot they introduced anti-stealth and totally ruined stealthing for people by making it too easy to get (relatively speaking) and way too effective; that may have changed over time, but if so i was already gone from the game by then.
Spook
Shadow Dancer
08-04-04, 21:52
Damn Planetside's stealthing sounds leet.
Damn Planetside's stealthing sounds leet.
It was very well balanced, altho there you could have stealth on constantly,
and the stealth suit had no armor (think spy without armor on o_O) and very
limited inventory space and no large weapon holsters so they could only use
pistols (weak) or melee with melee implant (hard to use and gives you away
when you turn secondary fire on melee weapon on) or build turrets, place
mines and blow people up with remote detonated charges (all very nice).
When someone with a darklightvision implant came around (the antistealth
tool) any stealther would die a horrible death.
DaoC stealthing was a horrible balance mess that never got fixed properly.
Every time it needed a fix I could think of couple decent fixes but they had to
go out of their way to create the most stupid, unbalanced and weird fix
every single time.
@ Devils Grace and Rade - Take it to PM's.
@ Everyone - Stay on topic and stop the flaming.
Vithar
Freaky Fryd
09-04-04, 01:17
I like the idea somewhat...
I do think that anyone that has it implanted shouldn't be able to stealth with it in though...that way you can stealth, or you can find stealthers, not both.
How about making an eye implant which'll allow people to target stealthers rather than see them.
I mean, then a stealther could still get away based on the fact that the blue haze is more difficult to see at a distance...
However, now classes would be able to attack them without relying on an AoE or DoT tick... That is, if they choose to use the eye. Some classes are pretty reliant on a weapon specific eye, others aren't... So this definately wouldn't be used by everyone.
Also, once you figure in which skill you want to play the main reliant stat (ie dex, str, int, etc)... You'd also eliminate at least one or possibly two from the line of who can use it.
How about making an eye implant which'll allow people to target stealthers rather than see them.
This sounds cool.
I little event that someone held today (but was, as usual, unpleasant because some dork had to go around pking newbies and other participants to make himself feel big) further proved to me just how imbalanced stealth is.
Basically, if you're a spy with a silenced sniper rifle and have a stealth 3/Obliterator, you are invincible. Simple as that. Its 100% impossible to uncover anyone with that setup because of the short range of True Sight, and no other method to counteract it. That's a huge imbalance if I ever saw one.
if this is ever gonna be a viable idea...it should be spy only, it will definetly make stealth whoring harder for pe's..
pe's should NOT get the luxery of having this item if it were to come into play whatsoever.
I little event that someone held today (but was, as usual, unpleasant because some dork had to go around pking newbies and other participants to make himself feel big) further proved to me just how imbalanced stealth is.
Basically, if you're a spy with a silenced sniper rifle and have a stealth 3/Obliterator, you are invincible. Simple as that. Its 100% impossible to uncover anyone with that setup because of the short range of True Sight, and no other method to counteract it. That's a huge imbalance if I ever saw one.
Sorry don't see it... I kill spies all the time with the same exact setup you are talking about.
Range for spies is negated by tanks having long range weapons... I have killed several spies with the S.T.O.R.M. cannon (just put a scope on that puppy) I don't have a Ravager yet but it is even more powerful from what I have heard. APUs have some serious range and firepower... if they get within range no matter how quick you are most likely dead... other PEs and Spies have stealth as well as range if they use rifles... I myself on my spy have killed tons of spies who use stealth... and I die quite a bit.
Unbalanced in what way? Do they unbalance OP wars, not that I have seen... never lost an OP war because the other side brought more stealthing spies :wtf: unbalanced in ganking or one on one duels? Duels shouldn't be an issue since if you are dueling and using a stealth device... you aren't really duelling :p and one on one ganking? Well sorry but no symapthy... PEs not spies make the best gankers in my humble opinion since spies are made of paper.
I can understand that you wish a counter measure for stealth and I would agree with you if it was viable but what is suggested is not. Spies are in no way invulnerable or "god like"... might be the reason they are the butt of jokes on these forums more often than not ;)
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