View Full Version : Concerning LOMing
Concerning LOMing
Can you imagine if we paid to play buy the hour what people would say and do then?
LOWer LOMing times, or something.
indeed somthing gotta be done about loming, i lom on regular bases lol wasetes to much time took me 3 days to lom ffom pistols to rifles(caped char). I think time needs to be redused or make them stack or somthing...
if we payed by the hour i would have no money so i wouldnt be able to play and i wouldnt care anyway
the SI is just a waste of time for lomming. the exp loss is a big enough penalty and will discourage ppl changing around skills too often
Just let the SI stack and go over 100.
They're fine the way they are. You're lucky you can even change your skills around as it is. If you're taking 58 LoMs to change your primary skill (which I've done several times), you can take the several hours over a few days to do it. Nobody becomes a pro at some skill just by eating a pill without repurcussions.
They're fine the way they are. You're lucky you can even change your skills around as it is. If you're taking 58 LoMs to change your primary skill (which I've done several times), you can take the several hours over a few days to do it. Nobody becomes a pro at some skill just by eating a pill without repurcussions.
Nobody stands in front of a double barrel shot guns and laughs at it while it shots them or a few hundred other things we do in "fantasy" games.
Its a waste of time thats it.
Edit This is a skill based PVP game right. Who gives a rats ass about old out of date hardcore RPG dead ideas. Give us back the old loms.
Nobody stands in front of a double barrel shot guns and laughs at it while it shots them or a few hundred other things we do in "fantasy" games.
Its a waste of time thats it.
Edit This is a skill based PVP game right. Who gives a rats ass about old out of date hardcore RPG dead ideas. Give us back the old loms.
AMEN...... :D
...Edit This is a skill based PVP game right. Who gives a rats ass about old out of date hardcore RPG dead ideas....
a lot of ppl do. without that players there would be no Neocron because you get PvP with outpost on ut or farcry or BFxxx for allmost free.
OT: they are fine now
a lot of ppl do. without that players there would be no Neocron because you get PvP with outpost on ut or farcry or BFxxx for allmost free.
OT: they are fine now
I may just be a big dummy but are any of them persistant. As far as i know all thoes games are map based and all the work done is erased when the map resets. You can not compare them to NC.
The RPG part of NC will not be harmed by changing loms. You still need to build the points and level the char. Once that work is done you can mod and move them around without spending an entire day to do so is all.
Dont fear change it is your friend. I still say give an exp hit for loms is not to bad I dont like it but see the need.
kthbye
Anybody who knows me already knows that I am adamantly against the synaptic imparement attached to loss of memory pills.
I have made several detailed arguments containing the reasons why Synaptic Imparement should be (ideally) removed, or at least reduced, so reakktor should already be aware.
If they are not, then I doubt they will be reading this thread anyway. It was hard to read the old thread and not see the tens of Arguments that I (as well as other fellow Neocron players) posted.
There should be 2 LOM options:
#1, Instant lomming(no SI), lots of XP loss
#2, 6mins per lom(46% or whatever SI), no XP loss
so you get the chance of waiting for a long time but not losing any levels, or having the instant lom and losing lots of levels, you could always mix and match, pop half of the instant loms you need then do the rest with the 6minute loms.
Just make them so that you get no SI, but still retain the experience loss. It's just a big-ass unnecessary timesink the way it currently is.
--Stryfe
Cruzbroker
05-04-04, 21:29
AT LEAST 20% SI, just to make it pain in the ass. Youren't supposed to do thing like this twice a day.. The 48% is way too much.
Just make it stack imo. I dont mind LoMing if I can just take a few pills every once and a while while watching a movie.
There should be 2 LOM options:
#1, Instant lomming(no SI), lots of XP loss
#2, 6mins per lom(46% or whatever SI), no XP loss
so you get the chance of waiting for a long time but not losing any levels, or having the instant lom and losing lots of levels, you could always mix and match, pop half of the instant loms you need then do the rest with the 6minute loms.
Agreed. Having both together is pointless. Double or treble the XP loss and remove SI, then we can spend that downtime at least hunting even if it does take longer, hunting is more fun than sitting in plaza doing fuck all.
...The RPG part of NC will not be harmed by changing loms. You still need to build the points and level the char. Once that work is done you can mod and move them around without spending an entire day to do so is all. ...
hmm... you intentions may be good but we know how much the old system was abused. that on level someone lose when loming a COMPLETE PvP skill is nothing compared to someone that need to build that skill from start.
so why should someone that learned RCL from the beginning of his life be punished when i just can lom from rifle to RCL in 5 min ?
ohoho, wrong example. from weaponlore to construct is a better better one.
hunting is more fun than sitting in plaza doing fuck all.
how about using not your standart rare for hunting but a regular gun ?
Dribble Joy
05-04-04, 22:18
This is a skill based PVP game right. Who gives a rats ass about old out of date hardcore RPG dead ideas. Give us back the old loms.
This is a skill based PvP MMORPG, not and fps, an RPG.
Don't forget that.
voted to reduce the SI time. building on Jest's comment:
1) Reduce each lom SI to 25%
2) Allow a runner to have multiple loms (of any type) going
3) Each lom stacks up to 100% SI
So in effect, you can have any 4 loms going at one time and can add another as soon as you have at least 25% SI space free.
/edit: changed for credit-where-credit-is-due
Get rid of LOMs and whenever KK changes weapon requiments or ups or lowers dmg in a patch they should do skill release. Be done with it cause that was the only real reason for LOMs. Not to be leveling up one way to lom to another or tweaking your setups constantly. Everyone just got spoiled.
Just make it stack imo. I dont mind LoMing if I can just take a few pills every once and a while while watching a movie.
That's a great idea, make like 5 of them stack and get 99% SI (I remember in beta 4 before you'd get SI for GRing, imo Neocron was better that way cause everything would be fast and OP wars were funner). And like you said, while you do that you could fuck off and do something else... I mean who the fuck supports the idea of waiting 5 mins everytime you want to LoM? Make it like 25 mins so I can jerk off while I wait... O_o
remove the synaptic increase the xp loss. we keep saying it, theres no arguing against it, ths si is just a pointless timesink. as someone said (sorry cant remember who) its not so bad spending time earning back xp coz at least you are doing something, the current system has you sitting around paying KK to be bored out of your fucking mind. i.e stupid.
Get rid of LOMs and whenever KK changes weapon requiments or ups or lowers dmg in a patch they should do skill release. Be done with it cause that was the only real reason for LOMs. Not to be leveling up one way to lom to another or tweaking your setups constantly. Everyone just got spoiled.
not a bad idea but that means everyone would have to reskill every fucking patch the way kk "adjust" balance
There should be 2 LOM options:
#1, Instant lomming(no SI), lots of XP loss
#2, 6mins per lom(46% or whatever SI), no XP loss
I agree with option #2. Big timesink, no XP loss.
That's a great idea, make like 5 of them stack and get 99% SI (I remember in beta 4 before you'd get SI for GRing, imo Neocron was better that way cause everything would be fast and OP wars were funner). And like you said, while you do that you could fuck off and do something else... I mean who the fuck supports the idea of waiting 5 mins everytime you want to LoM? Make it like 25 mins so I can jerk off while I wait... O_o Actually yah instead of making them stack, maybe just make a new item, "Advanced LoM pill" which are 5x as powerful as a normal LoM. Also make them buyable by PP characters from a PP vendor only!!! That would be awesome.
Actually yah instead of making them stack, maybe just make a new item, "Advanced LoM pill" which are 5x as powerful as a normal LoM. Also make them buyable by PP characters from a PP vendor only!!! That would be awesome.
LOL that would be funny Proto characters would corner the market on ALPs :p Although I guess it wouldn't matter cause almost everyone and their dog does the proto epic and could just stock up on ALPs
Actually yah instead of making them stack, maybe just make a new item, "Advanced LoM pill" which are 5x as powerful as a normal LoM. Also make them buyable by PP characters from a PP vendor only!!! That would be awesome.
Yeah, most of the leveling lamers are in Proto anyway, why not give them the availability to super LoM while they're there before they change to their real faction :rolleyes:
Yeah, most of the leveling lamers are in Proto anyway, why not give them the availability to super LoM while they're there before they change to their real faction :rolleyes: Lol you bitch dont roll your eyes at me. :mad: ;) Id just like to see some faction only vendors, and this idea worked well with PP.
Faction only vendors would be teh win, i ain't fussded with how it is atm and i lom enough.
LOMed my psi from PPU to hybrid to apu to hybrid to apu to hybrid to apu to hybrid and now APU again, and thats jsut since the hybrid 5 % change + my spy was droens rifles 19 days ago h ewent rifles and now is pistols.
Your changing the way ur body works and how u think/what u know, it should takw a fucking long time :P
but but but .. i like to be a pharmaist before I go into real estate :eek:
I think instead of loms you should lose XP for the amount of time you stay dead and don't GR out. It kicks in after 2 min or so. Then people can just leave their character dead all day and drop the levels and get the points they need :P It would always kill the waiting around forever for a rez thing :p
The lom pill debate has gone on so long, that I now know when a person is for or against before I even read there post.
Holy fucking Mother of Jesus Christ! Why is this issue being ignored? This issue needs to be further acknowledged!
hmm... you intentions may be good but we know how much the old system was abused. that on level someone lose when loming a COMPLETE PvP skill is nothing compared to someone that need to build that skill from start.
so why should someone that learned RCL from the beginning of his life be punished when i just can lom from rifle to RCL in 5 min ?
ohoho, wrong example. from weaponlore to construct is a better better one.
how about using not your standart rare for hunting but a regular gun ?The system was abused because there was no XP loss. The SI has sod all to do with it. Remember when LoMs caused a loss of a level? Nobody even took LoMs then, and we have the same synap now as we did there.
And have you tried hunting with a regular gun recently?
1) I use high level implants to get my skills in certain places. I'll be levelling with low speed, and low HP.
2) I'll be forced to use low level weapons and low level armor. 52% synap per lom means I have 50 STR, I could just about use an Unlabeled Plasma Cannon. Then what? Go hunting? In case you've forgotten (and clearly you have) XP is dependant on TL of the weapon you're using. So you can't fight high level mobs due to low level weaponry, and you gain low XP due to low level weaponry. To make a million XP on an Unlabeled Plasma cannon takes hours and hours and hours. What's the point when I could make the same XP back in half an hour by using a decent weapon?
I don't see why people are so blind to just reading and understanding other people's points on this forum. How exactly is someone going to abuse it? Suppose LoMing all my H-C to M-C took me from 100 STR to 95 STR? That's a fuckload of XP to get back, and you certainly can't expect me to change my mind a day later and LoM out shedload more because I want to go back to H-C. A spy who LoMs some hack for an OP hack will very soon find himself with no XP left. All that needs to be done is doube, treble XP loss and remove the synap, it won't be abused, the downtime from sitting there doing fuck all is then transferred to hunting. And that means at least having some fun, which is what the game is all about right? Amongst all these bugs, and crashes, and fatals, we're supposed to be having fun. And sitting in Plaza doing nothing but listen to assholes spamming and flaming is not my idea of fun thank you very much.
What about the new players we get? Nobody's first char is ever perfect. Have you spoken to a recently levelled up newbie, who doesn't get much time to play in the last month? They skill everything, you get melee/pistol/droner/apu spies who drive rhinos and want to PvP. You explain to them that they need to take 50 LoMs to be PvP effective. That's 200 minutes, over 3 hours worth, and it's not unlikely for a first char. If you could only play an hour a day, that means 3 days just to make your char PvP-viable. And that is bullshit.
More XP loss, no synaptic. If you think it will be abused you either haven't ever had more than 25 mil XP on a char or you're not reading my post very thoroughly.
Whitestuff
06-04-04, 02:08
No SI, massive XP loss (KK, this does not mean the loss of an entire level). Seriously, I have a lot to lom still to get all my characters in order. I have been playing for over a year and I still screw up setups. And the time that it takes is just too bloody long.
The current way makes lomming an entire set of skills impossible for most people.
happyslinky
06-04-04, 06:54
For anyone who wasnt around for it:
back in the beginning of retail (and for quite some time after that) loms were cheap and had no penalty. This was justified because KK said they would be making major changes to the gameplay that would require people to move skill points around to continue doing whatever it was they wanted to do. (I'm sure there's a better way to put that -- basically kk was gonna be screwing around with stats and they didnt want to waste the time people spent leveling)
Here's the problem... kk has never stopped making big changes to the gameplay.
The biggest argument for making loms difficult and time consuming was to help tradeskillers. There was a problem with people loming to research to make some bps, then to cst to construct. Now (at night at least), there are no tradeskillers to protect. Making it possible for a player to easily switch from res to cst might actually improve the quality of gameplay at low population times.
with the combonation of (still) constant gameplay changes and low server populations the question is why havent we gone back to the old loms?
..
And have you tried hunting with a regular gun recently?
...
2) I'll be forced to use low level weapons and low level armor. 52% synap per lom means I have 50 STR, I could just about use an Unlabeled Plasma Cannon. ....
none of my chars are able to use any rare weapons.
it was not long ago i was in the canyon sector killing doomies with my pe and a 4 slot noob gatling cannon havin only inquisition1.
break:
some ppl forget how it is being low level because they never really are LOW. many chars are powerleveled in one week to 90% cap.
i really dond see ppl complain in such threads that have 30points to lom. ppl allways talk about waiting 5 hours to lom from "rifle to pistol and back". they are not all hybrids that where "surprised" by the nerf.
lol sorry i allways want to say that in a thread:
go get some skills killing stuff without rare weapons.
Cruzbroker
06-04-04, 14:12
I have had to take 30+ loms just to make some con changes etc. It's not just changing skills.
RP: You don't lose all your skills because you have previous experience in drones which you can also use in rifles. Also it's combat experience, not rifle usage. (<- loming droner to rifle).
SI 20%, same XP loss. DO IT FFS :rolleyes:
SI 20%, Increased XP loss, Do it!!
Devils Grace
06-04-04, 14:18
Nobody stands in front of a double barrel shot guns and laughs at it while it shots them or a few hundred other things we do in "fantasy" games.
if u stand in front of a double barrel shotgun u will laugh................for a while
after u will A) die B) attack back C) start running
in this fanatasy game u dont want loms the way it is then lets do it another way more reallistic
ur Rifles and u want to be Pistols
Fine u reset all ur Rifles points, and loose them and then u have to lvl all back again.
There
none of my chars are able to use any rare weapons.
it was not long ago i was in the canyon sector killing doomies with my pe and a 4 slot noob gatling cannon havin only inquisition1.
break:
some ppl forget how it is being low level because they never really are LOW. many chars are powerleveled in one week to 90% cap.
i really dond see ppl complain in such threads that have 30points to lom. ppl allways talk about waiting 5 hours to lom from "rifle to pistol and back". they are not all hybrids that where "surprised" by the nerf.
lol sorry i allways want to say that in a thread:
go get some skills killing stuff without rare weapons.
Well some of us would very much like to compete in PvP thank you very much. FYI, I've had the character Scikar since a month or two after retail start, and he's still not fully capped. I didn't powerlevel at all, in fact I've levelled him all the way to strength cap almost entirely hunting solo. I got all the rare parts for a CS by myself, but even before that I was fighting in Pepper Park with a TPC.
Perhaps you don't realise just how much XP we're talking about here. At 100 cap, you need 152 million XP. If LoMing costs you 50 million XP of that, that means a full 1/3 of your levelling time all over again. And the measly XP you could get from a low level weapon with low level armor fighting low level mobs means nothing compared to the amount of XP you need.
And you still haven't responded to my other points. What about that newb who can't play very often, who finally levels up, wants to PvP like almost everyone else in the game and then finds out he has to sit in Plaza 1 doing nothing for 3 days since he can only log on for an hour a day?
They're fine the way they are. You're lucky you can even change your skills around as it is. If you're taking 58 LoMs to change your primary skill (which I've done several times), you can take the several hours over a few days to do it. Nobody becomes a pro at some skill just by eating a pill without repurcussions.
As opposed to games like ultima online that allow you to change skills / specializations whenever you want with no penalty.
I used to think the same way you do, that we're lucky, unfortunately LOM's were exploited during their early use, and now they have been givesn the KK sledge-hammer effect, the cost needed to LOM a full set of skills is indeed a lot, the XP loss is phenomenal, and the SI is a pain in the ass, granted this reduces the way they can be exploited, it still remains that while the exploiters are stopped, that good honest joe is being shafted in the ass.
UO - You choose to decrease say, swordsmanship skill, so, while you continue leveling this skill decreases while another skill levels. Simple, no down time, not easily exploitable, though UO is the biggest macrofest i ever played :D
it would be nice to have some different sized LoM pills eg. one that takes off 50 points but give u lots of SI. At least then u wouldn't have to sit by ur PC all the time clicking every 5 mins
Cruzbroker
06-04-04, 14:34
Fine u reset all ur Rifles points, and loose them and then u have to lvl all back again.
There
That would be far more unrealistic than it is now. And the SI is just timesink.
it would be nice to have some different sized LoM pills eg. one that takes off 50 points but give u lots of SI. At least then u wouldn't have to sit by ur PC all the time clicking every 5 mins
Now THATS an Idea. Good one. :)
Now THATS an Idea. Good one. :)
wow my first complement on the forums :)
Yeah, it sounds cool. Overdosing (taking a large LoM instead of a small LoM) should make the LoM do some drug after effects tho just to be realistic. It can't be anything minor since the initial drugflash is very temporary compared to the sitting time, and you can't stack it.
Of course, this probably would be seen as more annoyance than realistic, so. :D
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