View Full Version : AutoPoking Keep or No?
Simple answer Yes or No, I don't need anyones comments just the poll. I will keep it public if the numbers win or if most say no then it will no be public.
-- System --
enigma_b17
05-04-04, 01:02
what the smeg is autopoking lol
Auto Poking?
Care to explain ?
AutoPoking. I created a code behind Neocron to do key strokes and mouse strikers. I sat in plaza 2 the passed few days over night with it AutoPoking people when standing in front of me. In another thread called something like "wow macroers in game" a lot has been said. Read that for a lot of spam and nonsense
it's always nice to have a poker about during the night time, north american wise, as it's hard to find them on Saturn. Though, not sure if it should stay or go, isn't there any policy on macros being used, official response KK?
Yes I dont see why not, you would earn more money doing aggie missions than poking at night time so I don't see thatyou would be competition for any other pokers (seeing as there arent any at night).
However you are gunna get in trouble for this im afraid m8, tis against the rules :)
I've already talking to GMs about this. I'll leave it at that. I've been told what not to do and to do. I'm now seeing what the public wants. Me to stay or me to go.
KEEP IT! Saturn is devoid of pokers at most other times, not just nights. Ever tried to get an MC5 poked at 6 AM GMT? Damn near impossible.
--Stryfe
Forget My Name
05-04-04, 06:10
I voted YES only as long as server populations are dangerously low.
When server pop goes back up, then NO.
Autopoker is lame and takes away from the economy. I can understand someones frustration in wanting a poke and not being able to find one but that doesn't justify the macro.
please keep it... when theres no other pokers on theres no reason to not have it.
There is almost always a poker though. I play at some pretty low server level times and the most I have to wait for a poke is maybe 7-8 minutes. Half of that is waiting for SI to go away anyways so its not that big of deal of a wait.
And looking at your sig you play on Pluto, A lot of people poke on Pluto when they firs create a char. So yes its easy there but on Saturn its different.
actually i changed my mind...I would like to change my yes vote to no.
only becase its free...I think it should cost a shit load to use autopoker so if possible they will use real pokers
actually i changed my mind...I would like to change my yes vote to no.
only becase its free...I think it should cost a shit load to use autopoker so if possible they will use real pokers That would be cool. Not as a player but have a bot that pokes but maybe costs like 1k (or more) per tl of each poke.
:eek: And have him able to do tl 115. This would cost players 115k just for a Mc5 poke but wouldnt be too bad a system.
No thanks
I appreciate you're doing this for the players, but this kind of thing kills proper tradeskillers. How long till every server has an auto poker running 24/7?
I'm inspired I think Im gonna make an auto-sex bot. He will sex every minute, just in case some one needs some lovin'. They will know where to go. Mmmmmmm sex bot....
No.
1) Bad for the real pokers
2) Blur the like on what is and is not allowed wrt bots and macros.
The ONLY way I would want to see such a facility in the game is if it were run by the GMs and the character were inside an appartment that you had to pay a large amount to enter (20k at least).
actually i changed my mind...I would like to change my yes vote to no.
only becase its free...I think it should cost a shit load to use autopoker so if possible they will use real pokers
That would be cool. Not as a player but have a bot that pokes but maybe costs like 1k (or more) per tl of each poke.
:eek: And have him able to do tl 115. This would cost players 115k just for a Mc5 poke but wouldnt be too bad a system.
Heh, the last time I saw a thread asking for this sorta thing it got shot down.
Go figure.
AutoPoking. I created a code behind Neocron to do key strokes and mouse strikers. ...
:rolleyes: its you put a stone on you mouse .. macros are not allowed ...
i heard a rumour there is a macro in place that allows a ppu to heal/shelter/deflector at the press of a button. that imo is very wrong
but a macro for an auto poker......yes, and as far "it kills tradeskillers" what bullshit, no one seriously tradeskills a poker, people just do it to get dex and/or money.
keep the poker, but put him in an Apt with an entrance fee of 20k that would be fine
such a macro (concerning the PPU) is indeed possible, but more of an urban legend than anything else.
Fighting with one active without being used to it will produce less of an output than without such a macro, and even when used to it you can achieve the same effect without any real thought. It's all in the hand/eye coordination.
Edit: As an added thought, it could also reactivate at times you wouldn't want it to, which can be very costly.
Mostly I tend to take this particular Call It A Macro scenario and say it's just sore losers with extra levels imaginations in their heads. =P
LagWarrior
05-04-04, 10:06
No. Players should play the game, not macros.
Peace & out
I tried out an auto-buff system about a year ago and it's pointless. It can't cast as fast as you can manually because you can't adjust the timings to adapt for lag and other variables so it needs extended wait-states. Even if you can optimise the timing it's still not worth having as you often don't want all three cast at once on all players. Spending the time learning to be a better PPU is a far better idea.
/edit - before anyone asks - 1) I tried it in an apt using self-casts or onto a 2nd account character. I gained no XP and no other players were affected. 2) No you can't have any more technical info (not that it's hard to do but that would be against forum and game rules).
I voted no. Poking is supposed to be a player skill.
I have had days where I have popped imps and couldn't get a poker. You know what I did? I changed my loadout and lived with it until I could get a poker.
I voted no. Poking is supposed to be a player skill.
I have had days where I have popped imps and couldn't get a poker. You know what I did? I changed my loadout and lived with it until I could get a poker.
you can put up with this, i cannot, no poker means no optimum play means log off means do something else
Shadow Dancer
05-04-04, 10:34
I voted yes for reasons already stated.
What's this ? A "please ban my account I am macroing" thread ?
What's this ? A "please ban my account I am macroing" thread ?
It looks like one to me.
Poking is a player skill!! Why the hell would kk allow it to be done without player involvement? What about the people that sit there working their trade for money?
Make some new poking friends or maybe even DO IT YOURSELF. I 'never' have a problem getting pokes and I play at all hours.
NO.
I'm inspired I think Im gonna make an auto-sex bot. He will sex every minute, just in case some one needs some lovin'. They will know where to go. Mmmmmmm sex bot....
Now that would be awesome. I think that KK would have to let you use Macros for that.... otherwise the community would erupt in a bloody revolution against their frigid masters and assault their offices in Hanburg using their mighty pelvic thrusting abilities.
shodanjr_gr
05-04-04, 15:47
I dont see why this guy should be banned. Heck all he is doing is helping out the community with getting pokes (something that at least I appreciate very much). Heck he cant even be tipped for the job (cause apparently he's got trade disabled so that the macro would work). Its obvious that he has got good motives and i dont see a reason for his actions not to continue, especially considering the current state of server populations.
Voted No. There are plenty of pokers on Saturn, it's just most of them can't be bothered to poke anyone (and I'm guilty of it myself). But they will poke if you offer a big load of cash. Poking MC5 chips early in the morning can be a way to make decent cash, the autopoker destroys that.
maybe we should get a macro so i can continue pking even when im not playing :rolleyes:
The thing is, if two of my head chips pop I am effectively disabled for anything involving combat. Since I am a tank, that's me screwed. And believe it or not it is actually well nigh impossible to get poked at 3am on Saturn. I mean what can I do but log and play something else? :confused:
I'm often on late at night on Saturn, and I have a poker. But if there's going to be an AutoPoker who nobody has to tip, why would I bother poking?
I'm often on late at night on Saturn, and I have a poker. But if there's going to be an AutoPoker who nobody has to tip, why would I bother poking?
Why would you anyway? As i said before the demand for pokes at that hour is so little that you'd make more money doing aggie missions.
Despite whether pokers are existent on saturn at that hour, there is rarely one in any of the plazas.
Because at that time in the morning there'll only be me poking. Thus I can say "Sure I'll poke your MC5, but I want 100k for it". Presto, 100k made with a simple click, then I can run off and do something else until the next person with half a brain realises that the people with tradeskills might just be listening to the Skill -> NC channel. In case you haven't guessed, I have Trade muted due to the spam and shit talk. If people used the channels properly they would find that Skill -> NC, being the logical place to ask for a poker, surprise surprise, turns up a poker.
NO
Autopoking although handy will distroy the trade and then if for any reason the poker goes down there'll be no one to poke cause who'd spec a skill they can make no money from.
Because at that time in the morning there'll only be me poking. Thus I can say "Sure I'll poke your MC5, but I want 100k for it". Presto, 100k made with a simple click, then I can run off and do something else until the next person with half a brain realises that the people with tradeskills might just be listening to the Skill -> NC channel. In case you haven't guessed, I have Trade muted due to the spam and shit talk. If people used the channels properly they would find that Skill -> NC, being the logical place to ask for a poker, surprise surprise, turns up a poker.yup i only have the skill one on now, if i hear people asking for pokes i often will log my poker on for some business
TraumaTeam
05-04-04, 16:55
Here's what you can do to balance it: Put your Autopoker somewhere outside of Plaza 1. Have them seated at the susui bar in P2 or maybe even somewhere in Via Rosso. Post here (or on the in-game forums) as to where you will be. People looking for a human poker will be in P1. Others (when they can't find one) can make the trek to the autopoker.
What do you think?
No way. For reasons already mentioned.
I agree with a player sacrificing his/her account on one server to autopoke with a character they made. *hats off*
I just don't like NPC autopokers as an idea. So, macroed pokers like yourself should stay as long as you pay for your account ^^.
[edit]In reply to the "whod spec a skill that they won't make cash from" remarks, I do because I like to be self-sufficient (hacker/poker) so I can get pokers whenever I need. So thats why :D
Steve
Jesterthegreat
05-04-04, 17:21
i voted no. whats the point of anyone having a poker on the server if someone will do any TL for free for any faction / clan...
he said earlier he has been talkin to GM's about it, but i still would vote against it and am against anyone macroing d#something that effects the game this much...
AutoPoking. I created a code behind Neocron to do key strokes and mouse strikers. I sat in plaza 2 the passed few days over night with it AutoPoking people when standing in front of me. In another thread called something like "wow macroers in game" a lot has been said. Read that for a lot of spam and nonsense
Heh we did had a autopoker in Fallen Angels - but the solution was a player with an old PC and a mouse button taped down.
I can't see anything wrong with it, you are not gaining XP from auto-poking.
Clownst0pper
05-04-04, 18:45
Why havnt mods questioned this, when people have been banned in the past for using scripts>? :rolleyes:
Original monk
05-04-04, 18:53
i havent been on the forum much lately ... so i dunno whats going on here ...
but i can say that this is ****************** WEIRD
all i see here is a poll about asking: hey guys, should i use a macro to destroy a tradeskill ?
i really tought they where forbidden ... even if its to "serve" the community ... and i think they still are forbidden duh ...
whats next ... exploiters duping all kinds of stuff and handing it out to everyone to "serve" the community lol or maybe a more realistic example: where do ya gonna make macro's for lol ?? every possible tradeskill ??
you wanted a yes or no answer right ? well ya aint getting it, i hope my above answer was clear enough.
go back to counterstrike please, people will appreciate youre "special" skill much more over there ...
As some people on Pluto might have noticed... I've started an Auto-Poking Character as well. I did start mine before System began doing his macro on Saturn, but never leveled him. I have the same intentions as this guy, not trying to jump on the band wagon or anything, before I get accused of that.
This guy's right, with such low server numbers, who wouldn't get discouraged if they couldn't find a poke when they needed it? This community has given so much to me in the past, and if it means I can keep someone's account active until DoY comes out by Auto-poking the people who need it, I don't really care what people have to say about it.
I'm not going to macro, rather use a piece of tape or something. I used System's poker on Saturn a few days ago, and it was damn nice. Still haven't been back on Saturn to thank him, but when I get a chance, I sure will. :) I asked for a poke, and the only people that answered were people who wanted 150k+ to log an alt to poke me. :rolleyes: Give me a break! We're not all 1-year veterans to Saturn who have exploited the APC trick yet! When that happened, I went to System's autopoker instead, saved myself a lot of time, and a lot of grief in having to earn back 150k as a PPU from people too lazy to do the community a service.
You people don't want an auto-poker? Then stop refusing to log someone who can poke for an insane amount of money people don't have to spend. Until then, I salute you System, for TRYING to help the community. Some people make such little sense, it's unreal.
And to anyone on Pluto, look forward to Nvidia's Auto-Poker, who will soon be poking for free almost every night in Rontrade Walk. I don't like waiting for pokes to enjoy myself, and neither should anyone else.
Original monk
05-04-04, 19:34
thread #46 also counts for you Nvidia, nomather how less people there are on the server is no excuse for someone to make an autopoker ... for all hardworking pokers this is 200% unfair competition ... when KK wanted an autopoker they would of putten it in thereselves ...
not to mention the advertising youre having here for things like macro's and putting tape on a mouse etc ... weird way of "gameplay" ya guys have
What's this ? A "please ban my account I am macroing" thread ?
hes obviously been told what DaFire is basically saying above, do it and your banned kinda thing, yet he has posted this thread here :wtf:
Hm...
I'd like to take a moment and look at it from one of my characters' point of view.
(Before I begin, I know that the character described below has little business tradeskilling in the first place, but it is a choice I made.)
Kenjuten is specced to do IMPing, and while he doesn't have a high level yet, he likes to have that skill.
Competition would be varied. Sometimes Ken would do business, sometimes he'd not, pretty much depends on who's around to poke (or lack thereof).
Auto-Poker shows up. No longer is Ken able to do any business as people will prefer to use the auto-poker instead, except for the random hours that for some reason the auto-poker isn't on.
Now, for the good points.
1.) You've relieved Kenjuten of his obligation to serve to the tradeskilling community.
2.) He can unlock those IMP levels and be a better fighter.
But now for the extremely bad point: While Ken (and thus myself) don't mind that now someone is available to do a job better than him and on almost all hours...you have destroyed the functionality of the Implant tradeskill.
The tradeskill is something setup by KK so that people could interact with each other in a new dimension: Business & Economy.
But with the auto-poker in place, it is as if the skill can no longer exist. People can ignore IMP and don't have to choose the balance between PVP and Tradeskill.
The arguement in the end is pretty simple: If KK wanted this sorta thing, they'd have kept the IMP stat out of the game and allow all people to poke themselves without a problem.
shodanjr_gr
05-04-04, 20:24
Why havnt mods questioned this, when people have been banned in the past for using scripts>? :rolleyes:
Maybe cause he isnt doing it for his personal interest but for the good of the community....?
Maybe cause he isnt doing it for his personal interest but for the good of the community....?
Which part of the community though?
Obviously for those that don't tradeskill for IMP.
shodanjr_gr
05-04-04, 21:23
Which part of the community though?
Obviously for those that don't tradeskill for IMP.
He is helping the vast majority so that they :
a) dont have to wait 30 minutes to get a poke.
or
b) dont have to be blackmailed by the only poker on the whole server and forced to pay 100K for a single poke.
TraumaTeam
05-04-04, 21:39
I'm starting to think it's weird that we're not getting an official statement.
Is scripting/macroing/taping the mouse button acceptable?
If so, is this an acceptable use of the afformentioned methods?
Until these are answered, the question is moot.
- Nekura
no one seriously tradeskills a poker, people just do it to get dex and/or money
:confused: If not experience and money, what does any tradeskiller do their task for? Personal fulfillment?
In any case, my main character I consider to be a poker first (to the point that several people have insulted me for wasting points "better" placed elsewhere) and combatant second. I spend probably 50% of my online time poking. I'm building his combat skills so I can eventually gather rarer implants to sell to my vict... customers, and in the hope that someday I can actually participate in op and other battles as sort of a field cyberneticist: Patch 'em up and then throw them back into the front lines.
Close This Thread Please
Ok... Thats all I was looking for. Yes or No's. Thank you for voting. Enjoy not having a poker late at night even if I wasnt using a macro and putting tape on the mouse you guys would still whine and bitch.
-- System --
Autopoker is lame and takes away from the economy. I can understand someones frustration in wanting a poke and not being able to find one but that doesn't justify the macro.
What he said. The problem needs to be fixed at the server population level, not a "quick fix" like this.
No way. For reasons already mentioned.
Same.
Close This Thread Please
Ok... Thats all I was looking for. Yes or No's. Thank you for voting. Enjoy not having a poker late at night even if I wasnt using a macro and putting tape on the mouse you guys would still whine and bitch.
-- System --
I see someone has their feathers ruffled...
Then again, I suppose I was expecting that response.
I advise everyone to let this case be an example: Regardless of whether KK approves or disapproves currently of macros, the section of the community with morals will not allow such things to exist.
As an aside/offtopic thing, this is my 1,000th post. I have enjoyed providing and recieving good discussions since my first forum post in October of 2003. May we have many more respectful (to an extent) and communicative discussions such as this very thread.
Close This Thread Please
Ok... Thats all I was looking for. Yes or No's. Thank you for voting. Enjoy not having a poker late at night even if I wasnt using a macro and putting tape on the mouse you guys would still whine and bitch.
-- System --
I dont think you understand, people arent whining, just opening your eyes to your thoughts on helping the cummunity that will actually have adverse effects on the community.
My second character was a poker when i was a noob, it was a great source of income and with you sitting there autopoking you are creating a MONOPOLY on the business, sure people may think 'oh this makes looking for a poke so much easier' well that may sound nice and all but thats only on the surface you are actually doing more harm than good, practicly handing parts of the game to them on a plate. There is not enough concequences with death at the moment, and with no autopoker it forces you to look about for a real poker, make friends with people who have alts, basically a big part of the game being taken away.
If the GM's let this slide, then there will be a lot of people making more malichious (sp?) macros and it will be hard to draw a line and there will be 10x more threads like this asking if things are justified when the cause more harm than good.
Well thats just ny 2 cents dont know if you will actually bother to read it or not
-xfactor
From what I could understand from System, the GMs were letting the community decide.
This is because while the game was designed for large populations, he does have justification because of the low numbers across the board of players per server.
I think he was just depending too much on the community to back him up. Now he feels betrayed, I suppose.
He is helping the vast majority so that they :
a) dont have to wait 30 minutes to get a poke.
or
b) dont have to be blackmailed by the only poker on the whole server and forced to pay 100K for a single poke.
1) Don't die.
2) When you do, have friends who can poke you.
3) If you don't have friends, get poke yourself.
There's this little thing you know, called supply and demand. Remember the price of Devourer parts when it was just released and overpowered? This autopoker is effectively no different to someone spawning Devourers and selling them for 100k each at that time.
From what I could understand from System, the GMs were letting the community decide.
This is because while the game was designed for large populations, he does have justification because of the low numbers across the board of players per server.
I think he was just depending too much on the community to back him up. Now he feels betrayed, I suppose.
But if you look at the numbers, the Yes' won.
yay silent majority.
Macros are cool for personal use ;) But they can really ruin an mmo when everyone starts doing it. Every played AC? No one actually "levels" in that game. They all macro the leveling process....guess its cool if all you car about is pvp.
That game has all sorts of auto-buffers, macroed players to do trading....bah. Our community has been tainted with macro lameness.
happyslinky
06-04-04, 06:37
the argument for autopokers:
- the game is based around pvp, and that means losing imps... late at night it takes an unreasonable amount of time and/or money to get pokes because of the low server populations
the argument against:
- it ruins the tradeskill for anyone else
- it opens the door to other kinds of macros / is a violation of the terms of service
And now here's why those dont matter:
this is completely KKs problem. It is kk's responsibility to either A) do what it takes to get server populations back up, making the game playable late at night or B) change the game in a way that it is playable while the server populations are extremely low (as they are for many hours every night).
These macro threads and the macroers themselves (even if just taping down the mouse button) are a symptom of a problem. As long as KK refuses to address the issue in an official way or make signifigant changes to the gameplay they are not holding up their end of the agreement.
These are the kinds of issues that will keep DOY from succeeding.
But if you look at the numbers, the Yes' won.
yay silent majority.That really doesn't matter...regardless of the poll numbers, his 'close thread' post skewed it out such that the nay-sayers won out.
Unless you interpreted his anger in a different way than I did.
As for silent majority....heh. Actually, no comment. I'm not interested in opening another can of worms on this thread. :p
Edit: What I'm wondering now is, why the hell isn't a mod closing this thread yet? D: I see people editing others' posts and shit, but no closing here. This topic must still be running as open by the mods...hm. Maybe this poll is no longer in System's hands, so to speak.
Probably not. I talked to a GM about it and they do wanna see what the community has to say about AutoPoking so maybe they are just trying to see what everyone says. A lot of people are for it and a lot of people are against it. So theirfore I'll just not do it for you guys anymore. I will just sit in my clan apt with my mouse taped now since I don't need to advertise anymore no reason to have something running in the backround.
Oh and to clear things up. I have an Open mind and I understand all the points that are stated. Everything has good and bad effects. There is about the same amount of each for this topic just I felt that it doesn't need to be public. The only way I would keep it public is if there was 2 or 3 times more Yes's then No's and if a GM doesnt take my tool away :-p
-- System --
i like the idea of an autopoker that charges 1k per TL making it much better to find a player than use the machine
Probably not. I talked to a GM about it and they do wanna see what the community has to say about AutoPoking so maybe they are just trying to see what everyone says. A lot of people are for it and a lot of people are against it. So theirfore I'll just not do it for you guys anymore. I will just sit in my clan apt with my mouse taped now since I don't need to advertise anymore no reason to have something running in the backround.
Oh and to clear things up. I have an Open mind and I understand all the points that are stated. Everything has good and bad effects. There is about the same amount of each for this topic just I felt that it doesn't need to be public. The only way I would keep it public is if there was 2 or 3 times more Yes's then No's and if a GM doesnt take my tool away :-p
-- System --
a GM aint KK, and Kks stance is that they dont want macros in game and you may or maynot have noticed but DaFire is KK, and he said do it and you will be banned
Jesterthegreat
06-04-04, 14:58
if there was a way to makie it cost alot, so it is not a replacement for pokers, but a last resort then maybe i would reconsider and be all for it. but as it is it would kill a tradeskill to have someone poking for free 24/7
Mighty Max
06-04-04, 15:04
Every played AC? No one actually "levels" in that game. They all macro the leveling process....
/me slaps StrongSad hard.
I didnt ever macro on AC. Did not level in chain. Can buffmyself so i dont need to use Buffbots. Guess that is the reason why im still lvl 75. But every xp is done by myown hands work.
Yet i have to admit that the AC macro politics are the worst ive ever seen.
"Combat macros are allowed if they are attended" is a joke imho. The +envoy test cant do shit to the most UCMs...
Here's a moral question for you :
Is it wrong to push someone that's running a macro (for whatever reason) out of the safe-zones and res-kill them till they stop dropping stuff?
Here's a moral question for you :
Is it wrong to push someone that's running a macro (for whatever reason) out of the safe-zones and res-kill them till they stop dropping stuff?
nah that would just be fun
how is a macro-poker any different from someone who has a char on all night with a piece of tape over the mouse button and ALT-K set? and how is that really any different from someone who is acutally sat at the computer with their finger on the mouse button and ALT-K set? my point would be that poking is the easiest of the tradeskills and, if you aren't out to make any money, the difference between an "auto-poker" and a genuine poker is nil.
i don't take the view that auto-pokers take trade away from "real" pokers, since that already frequently occurs with real pokers who nonetheless charge nothing for their services.
regardless of whether it's a genuine exploit or not though, i doubt whether any of this would be allowed, simply because as genuine tradeskillers become more scarce, folks will increasingly resort to additional accounts to provide their own tradeskillers, which means more money for KK. and which also means that geniune tradeskillers become even more scarce, etc.
System, I'm glad you were able to still participate in this thread.
Jernau, usually I'm into the concept that two wrongs don't equal a right, but then again, the concept is subjective to circumstance and situation.
s0apy, the logical difference between a real poker, a taped poker, and a macro'd poker is that having something do what you could do is a bit off.
Now, on the offchance characters can be real robots, maybe there's a chance for macro/taping to be accepted by certain parts of the community...But unless you're a real poker, it's not really you that's doing it.
Aside from the immediate effects, which include destroying the purpose of the IMP stat, it creates a situation where players could feel more distant than if it was real pokers with real help. And thus something is taken away from the game itself.
At the very least, when real pokers don't ask for tips, you can feel incredibly grateful (then again, this depends on the integrity of the poked one...). When you get poked by a auto-poke you don't really think anything of it.
To draw a semi-related tangent, you ever wonder why most people prefer real combat as opposed to AI created by gamemakers? Unreal Tournament, Quake, Doom, you name it, the atmosphere wasn't the same with bots than real players.
Oh, and uh, your little thing about more accounts only truly applies to Pluto or any other 1-slot charserver. System is on Saturn.
s0apy, the logical difference between a real poker, a taped poker, and a macro'd poker is that having something do what you could do is a bit off.
[snip]
Oh, and uh, your little thing about more accounts only truly applies to Pluto or any other 1-slot charserver. System is on Saturn.
"a bif off" describes a great deal of my daily experience of this game :), you still haven't convinced me.
as to my comment about accounts, it applies to all servers - i play saturn too, and i for the life of me can't figure out how to poke my chars with other chars on the same account ;). naturally you need another account if you want to poke your own characters.
I don't think doing something "for the community" should be justification for breaking the rules. If macros for auto-poking are allowed because its "for the community", what's to stop someone from saying "I'm exploiting in MC5 to make the chips for affordable for the community"? Macroing is not allowed and should not be allowed. Play the game, don't let a program play it for you.
"a bif off" describes a great deal of my daily experience of this game :), you still haven't convinced me.
1) This is an MMORPG. A large part of the game is meeting and interacting with other players. Pokers are a critical service and therefore people do get known for the trade. Pokers also often have other roles - another tradeskill, clan trader or recruiter, etc. Often those roles don't provide enough interest or income to make it worth lurking in Plaza for long and poking helps on both counts.
2) Allowing any form of automation into the game makes it much harder for KK to take action against people using similar tools to gain unfair advantage.
3) Poking is a great noob-skill. It not only provides income it allows a lot more self-sufficiency in the early stages of the game and helps in meeting people, etc.
as to my comment about accounts, it applies to all servers - i play saturn too, and i for the life of me can't figure out how to poke my chars with other chars on the same account ;). naturally you need another account if you want to poke your own characters.It is easier to have a poker somewhere amongst your chars on Saturn though and to log him on for your mates/clannies. Likewise they can do the same for you.
Ugh there are so many things I want to say, but I get the feeling they'd go on deaf ears. Plus I'd prolly just start a flame war by saying it. I play multiplayer games because I like interacting with people. A person sitting at their computer and actualy doing the job of a poker is so much better then a robot autopoker. 75% of tradeskills is social interaction. Sure there are some who keep it strictly business, but most will stop and chat. I don't want a robot poking me! I want a person who took time out from his day to poke me. I want to reward that person for his time and work. That's the basis for a community, for players that interact with each other.
Back when I used to poke, there was a war going on between TG/Bad Guys vs City/Good Guys. It was more or less the gankers/bad pk'rs vs everyone else. The war existed not just in combat, but in plaza 1 aswell. Tradeskillers boycotted certain clans because of how their members behaved. Isn't that such a radical idea? Clans that ruthlessly killing new players or ganked tradeskillers suddenly found that the same tradeskillers wouldn't poke them. I love the responses I used to get when I would deny people. How dare I not poke them! Some even called me racist for not poking TG, it was great. This gave rise for oppertunistic tradeskillers to advertise the fact that they poke anyone. Even more player interaction! If you went to the shady all poker enough times, other pokers might not be inclined to poke you anymore.
What made it all crucial is something that many people in the community don't want to accept. It's the reason I love Pluto, but its just as possible on the other servers. Your actions have a repercussion. Your choices have an impact. If you piss off tradeskillers, you will find service not so easy to come by. That's how it should be! If you don't think poking is worth paying more then 10k for, then why are you suprised to not find many pokers waiting for you? Way to many people in the community want to have their cake and eat it too. That's what this poll shows. People want an autopoker, because then they don't have any reason to listen to the pokers. They can get away with crappy tips or no tips at all and still expect to be poked.
I'm curious what kk will do. If they allow this, then there is no reason why I can't make a researcher bot. Research is the most heinous tradeskill of all, its so terribly boring to do. Almost noone would object to having a script that does research for you. To keep it under the pretense of being "for the community" I could park my spy in plaza and as long as you give him substance and cubes, he'll pump out bp's. No cost for me to run, if the customers supply everything. How about a HealerBot? At first it could be just a PPU that sits in plaza with heal sanct going. With the right prompt, he could cast heal on you. That would be very handy. Building a full fledged healer bot would be quite difficult, but it's the next logical step. My ppu could follow you around, to some degree, and offer buffs/heals. Then we can have leveling bots, have your character run around in chaos cave. Or we can have farming bots, to gather rares or other loot.
All of these are boring repetative tasks that we would happily let a computer do for us. I'm sure there would be much rejoicing in the community if our lives were made easier with bots. We could all concentrate on combat, which is the entire point of this game. Then eventualy we can get kk to just get rid of non combat classes entirely. Have NPC's that do all of that silly stuff. Let's get back to killing each other : )
Oh man Carinth, that was an awesome post. I agree wholeheartedly, although by the poll results, I don't have much company.
For the record, I poke reds, but it's because my char is currently a psychopathic murderer hiding under the wings of the CityAdmin. I kill anyone who bugs me (if I can) and I also dig the dough. Pay meh, and you get your pokes. People who don't tip get put on a 'list'.
People who don't tip get put on a 'list'.
i need to make a spreadsheet for my list, amount of people who dont pay for the implant service is terrible
Oh man Carinth, that was an awesome post. I agree wholeheartedly, although by the poll results, I don't have much company.
For the record, I poke reds, but it's because my char is currently a psychopathic murderer hiding under the wings of the CityAdmin. I kill anyone who bugs me (if I can) and I also dig the dough. Pay meh, and you get your pokes. People who don't tip get put on a 'list'.
I was forceably converted over to the rebels. At first I poked everyone, I did so because the TG folk often ended up being so desperate for pokes that they would give the best tips of anyone. pcp and Ying were some of my best customers, with 100-500k tips. It was a sad day when I had to tell them I couldn't poke tg anymore. The other tradeskillers had a long "talk" with me about helping the enemy and why I should join their cause. I still have some of the bruises ; D
slaughteruall
07-04-04, 03:00
I voted yes even tho i have never used it. As long as it does not hurt the economy or some kind of exploit it should be fine. There are certain times that it is not possible to find a poker.
Slaughter
I voted yes even tho i have never used it. As long as it does not hurt the economy or some kind of exploit it should be fine. There are certain times that it is not possible to find a poker.
Slaughter
Tough.
I advise it you read through all the posts in this thread before you make a real decision.
If you talk about poking-NPCs, why don't you talk about removing the skill at all? Just drag'n'drop your implants, done. We could also remove all the other tradeskills and make the items buyable.
Come on guys, it's part of the game. If you don't know any poker, bad luck.
BTW: I'd like to see:
Whenever someone tries to poke you:
"Runner XYZ want's to poke you. The price for the poke is 5k. Accept?"
I still wonder why people don't tip for pokes. They pay millions for items and stuff, are at moneycap and can't afford 5k for a few pokes? I don't get it.
If you talk about poking-NPCs, why don't you talk about removing the skill at all? Just drag'n'drop your implants, done. We could also remove all the other tradeskills and make the items buyable.
Come on guys, it's part of the game. If you don't know any poker, bad luck.
BTW: I'd like to see:
Whenever someone tries to poke you:
"Runner XYZ want's to poke you. The price for the poke is 5k. Accept?"
I still wonder why people don't tip for pokes. They pay millions for items and stuff, are at moneycap and can't afford 5k for a few pokes? I don't get it.
Actually I made a suggestion to poking a lil in this thread Rework Tradeskills somewhat (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=95938) I explain a lil in the first post and then made a crappy screen shot with my non existant paint skills of what I envision it like. It could help alot with pokers doing this for money.
(mostly @ jernau)
i'm now fairly convinced that poking bots are a bad thing. certainly bots to automate any other task such as research or construct are definately bad. however, i'm still not convinced that the poker shortage is going to get any better.
as you said, poking is a great skill for a new player to get money and meet people, but we are (i believe) still experiencing a great dearth of new players to fill this role. i'm not banking on DoY bringing in that many new players either - i well remember being told that the free trial would do the same, but even KK admitted it wasn't much of a success.
i still stand by my comments on players resorting to extra accounts to allow them to poke themselves. i have two accounts, with a poker in each - could this be described as exploitative? looking for pokes (and paying for them) was becoming too much of a drag, and having my own private poker parked in my appy 24/7 is a blessing. i know for sure i'm not alone in this either. some go further and have PPUs so they can just self-ressurect, thereby bypassing even the item degradation.
i'm thinking now of new players, and how this affects them. if so many of us begin to resort to alt accounts, self poking, self buffing (hiding their alt-PPUs in the UG, nice and snug), self ressing, self consting/researching/bartering, what chance do new players have?
i'd fully support a poke station for up to TL50ish pokes, charged naturally, but within the reach of new players. i'd support a release of info on the way poking actually works too - if it is true that the higher the poking skill, the lower the damage imps take when they pop, then we could get some proper specialists, provided they could be guaranteed proper recompense, and provided the pokee could be guaranteed that they get what they pay for.
Player population is a serious problem but I can't see that it justifies allowing something like this.
As I said earlier I'd support an official service in a private appartment with a very high entry cost until KK can boost the server populations.
I have pokers on two accounts too for the same reasons but I'll usually pay someone else to poke me if they are in P2 when I come out the GR because it's easier and I'm glad they are there to do it.
I don't believe that IMP skill makes any difference at all to anything. I've not heard that rumour but I'm pretty sure it's nonsense.
voted no.
I think it sets a dangerous precedent ingame for players to justify the creation of other autonomous scripts.
i'd fully support a poke station for up to TL50ish pokes, charged naturally, but within the reach of new players.
however, that's not a bad idea. Find the TL break point for all the lvl 1 imps (is it 50?) and have an NPC poker set up in the medical offices
Also as mentioned, it would be nice to revamp the poke trade to include a price before services but then again, I'd like to see remote researching for rares too. I just don't think KK is gunna remove that element of 'rp' from the game ...
@ MM
You, good sir, are an anomaly. :lol:
KK should ban autopokers!
KK should ban autopokers!
5 mill says he doesnt like me much :-p
I'm suprised you guys are still on this subject. And I sure as hell didn't think this thread would turn into a book. AutoPoking is gone K's ? Not doing it anymore. And I'm now wondering why the hell a GM hasnt closed this thread since I said it 2 times already...
-- System --
Hate to say the obvious, but they're probably now having an internal discussion among themselves about this subject. No mod or GM or Admin has touched this poll yet while they're still doing other stuff.
They know the populations are low. They know a majority of the people want something to help the implants out. They might be thinking up something to tide us over until DoY, and if the population influx isn't so big, perhaps they'd keep it in.
My 2 cents.
Aziraphale
09-04-04, 14:10
I don't mind autopokers, so long as they find a system by which they charge you. The 1K per TL seems a bit excessive, sice that will make it nigh on impossible for newbies to use it, perhaps it could vary the cost according to your rank? Like with the backpack finder on the genrep?
I don't mind autopokers, so long as they find a system by which they charge you. The 1K per TL seems a bit excessive, sice that will make it nigh on impossible for newbies to use it, perhaps it could vary the cost according to your rank? Like with the backpack finder on the genrep?
hmm. I was thinking about the 'recreational' medical beds (whatever) this morning, read your post and it occured to me that these would make a prefect tool to impliment some sort of auto poking. Do people really use these things anyway?
The goal wouldn't be to eliminate RL pokers but maybe provide some sort of benefit to everybody when its tough to find that high level poker:
method:
1) You place the imp in your processor, and click on the bed
2) It gives you an option for healing or poking
3) healing stays the same as it does now
4) Click on poke and it comes up with a cost for poking the implant (similar to a vendor list) - or could even pull a list of all the imps you have in inv and you can select the one you want poked
etc:
1) Make lvl 1-2 implants free
2) The TL of the implant determines the cost.
3) Make the TL cost curve go WAY up and quickly (like 75k per lvl 3 imp, 150k per MC5 for example)
4) The beds are already scattered around and in every NC apartment (not sure about other apts).
5) KK could advoid the issue of scripts and just ban them completely
6) Runners have the option of using the bed (another money sink) or find a RL poker for tips (cost effective)
7) Newbs get some help without breaking the bank
just a thought.
AFAIK the only use those beds ever had (besides aesthetic/RP, which is kinda pointless as you can't sit or lie on them) is now explicitly banned.
IMO any form of automated poking should be very very expensive, even for L1 chips and low ranks. Real newbs aren't going to be relying on implants to exist.
AFAIK the only use those beds ever had (besides aesthetic/RP, which is kinda pointless as you can't sit or lie on them) is now explicitly banned.
IMO any form of automated poking should be very very expensive, even for L1 chips and low ranks. Real newbs aren't going to be relying on implants to exist.
yea I got a pretty good idea what that's all about :rolleyes:
I would think that lvl 1 imps for free wouldn't be the end of the world. And for some a lvl 1 imp can make a big difference for game enjoyment purposes (non-power lvlers).
Victor Crowe
09-04-04, 19:10
I dont really like macros in MMORPGs, but having a look at the population sometimes when I play going down to 50 I am all for an AutoPoker. When the server population goes up in the future, lets talk about AutoPokers again, but for the time beeing I think they really are necessary right now. Having to wait like 2 hours to get an important imp in at night isnt too much fun...
Wow. Sorry to pop this topic up but just look at this ppl. A thread about macros thats this big and has not been closed up :wtf:
Ok now im going to sleep...
Well you could have sent a message to a mod and asked why instead of bringing this old topic back up :P
Another thread took over from this one on the topic - the other one got closed but this was already off page one by then so got ignored I imagine.
The other thread ended with a clear statement that they are not allowed for anyone that's wondering.
Only way I'd like one was if it was limited to a certain TL. No higher than TL30 or something, just a bit to poke adv bones or similar. Nothing fancy, forget anything above the max TL though. That would just be stupid and remove the nice big tips some people give when you log your high TL poker specially.
i feel like logging my ppu and taping MOUSE1 while holy heal is the active spell in mah quickbelt. taping is a good idea.
btw is taping of mouse buttons allowed? D: or "accidentally" idling with the mouse stuck under the keyboard - in turn, pushing mouse1?
Holy archaic thread, Batman!
:wtf:
Holy archaic thread, Batman!
:wtf:
and I bet some people still voted on the poll recently . .lol
and I bet some people still voted on the poll recently . .lol
Yeah, figured while I was here anyway, might as well do something useful too ;)
Gotterdammerung
02-08-04, 09:27
please don't bump old topics
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