View Full Version : Are you sick of the ridiculous runspeed?
I'm sick of every single op fight, duel/whatever turning into everyone running into each other, and a big mess.
No tactical/strategical elements to it, just get close and shoot.
I'd like to see runspeed slowed for several reasons:
To run from NC to MB takes about ~15 minutes or so.
Vehicles are utterly useless except for levelling and a laugh now and then.
Op's are large, but the size is irrelevant with the current runspeed, trying to defend an op: takes 2 seconds to run in the entrance and into the middle of you, making AOE and range useless.
Comments?
Full ACC.
not the VHC have to be faster but ppl slower and STA booster need nerf.
edit:
it wont happen until KK give us an ability to use them, without having to spec for it.
jeh, on the day i can use a libby without skill ...
Clownst0pper
04-04-04, 21:34
Um, i dont mind it, If u want it to take a long time, just double the size of everything :)
I have to admit though, all my characters run stupidly quick, and can cover a zone in like 10 seconds, would be nice to have more vehicle use, but as I say, it wont happen until KK give us an ability to use them, without having to spec for it.
An alternative could be for the current runspeed nerf to be increased to say
120+/120+ for full speed effectiveness instead of the current 75+/75+ cap.
This way people sacrifice more of their resists for the ability to run faster.
tbh, other than this or something similar, I don't think the run speed should
just be nerfed not to mention tanks already have it bad, as it is dreaded since
the HC nerf implimentation.
Parad0x -FBI
no please...
its fine as is.
Id like to see it lowered and freezer weapons removed. The high speeds make vehicles pretty useless and people keep warping around me.
Id like to see it lowered and freezer weapons removed. The high speeds make vehicles pretty useless and people keep warping around me.
if they fix up the netcode the warp shouldnt be that bad, and also i think they need to increase vehicle speed instead of lowering runspeed
if they fix up the netcode the warp shouldnt be that bad, and also i think they need to increase vehicle speed instead of lowering runspeedPeople's speed make range pretty much irrelevant.
When you can run to the clipping pane in 8 or so seconds, somethings wrong (imo)
Dribble Joy
04-04-04, 21:54
Lower runspeed means it would just take longer to get into a fight, where you would do exactly the same as now, except it would be easier to hit people, as with freezer removing an element of skill from the game.
Leave it as it is.
What you are focusing on here is the PvP engaging element only.
What about classes and specializations that depend on their speed to run away from the heat? (e.g a droner).
Heat being an enemy; a runner or a mob.
$tormbringer
04-04-04, 21:57
i would like to see it increased....
if u run too fast from nc to mb then make the zones bigger...
if u cant hit the other person... get aiming....
What you are focusing on is the PvP engaging element here only.
What about classes and specializations that depend on their speed to run away from the heat? (e.g a droner).
Heat being an enemy, a runner or a mob.So, spies cant stealth/drive vehicles(its only 3/4 levels for a hovertec)?
What other class needs run really really fast ?
Melee can have insane resists and inqui armour for levelling
if u cant hit the other person... get aiming....Alert: totally pointless post detected :rolleyes:
People's speed make range pretty much irrelevant.
When you can run to the clipping pane in 8 or so seconds, somethings wrong (imo)
thats why they need to increase the clipping plane or remove it....
.. except it would be easier to hit people, ..
oh come on, we dont want to suffer because ppl are not clever enough to get cover.
fighting in NC is wrong because its all about straving and close combat.
everytime i play another shooter i wonder how different NC is.
thats why they need to increase the clipping plane or remove it....Which is easier for KK to do(in your opinion):
Lower runspeed(which is just a formula)
Rework graphics engine completely to increase the clipping plane or remove it
?
Which is easier for KK to do(in your opinion):
Lower runspeed(which is just a formula)
Rework graphics engine completely to increase the clipping plane or remove it
?
ummm there adding a completely different engine with the upgrade...what do you think?
ummm there adding a completely different engine with the upgrade...what do you think?They are?
I thought they were slightly reworking the current one, to up the graphics slightly, and utilize the gfx card more ?
They are?
I thought they were slightly reworking the current one, to up the graphics slightly, and utilize the gfx card more ?
not from my understanding, and besides, i dont think its that hard to increase the clipping plane, especially if there already working ont he engine anyways.
The 3D-rendering of the "Tekktonic - Virtual Worlds Engine" gets a major overhaul to take advantage of today's 3D hardware generation's features. Thanks to an upgrade to Direct X 9, the engine will support the nowadays common features like higher texture resolutions, higher polygon counts, and several new shading technologies. This will raise the overall quality of the graphics by quite a bit (real-time bump-mapping, realistic lighting and shadows, photorealistic water etc.). As the 3D graphics cards will be responsible for the majority of the rendering process, the CPU will be considerably relieved compared to the current situation. So the update will even improve the performance in addition to the better graphics.
thats what it says...
thats what it says...So, it's not a new engine, and it doesnt say anything with regard to clipping pane? :)
People run stupidly fast.
Slow 'em down and speed up vehicles. Gives more meaning to them.
hehe celt.
its like allways before. the PvP specialists against the drivers. they live happy together as long as a VHC PE cant kill a solo PvP its OK. im so sick of ppl hiding in my VHC. if they at least would use a AntiVHCLauncher. but why ? its easyer to target the slow biker that isnt that fast as the runner vithout a bike. :confused: :(
I think the problem is, too many people just play NC for pvp now.
Any suggestion, they think of it applied to them in PVP, and immediately think "no!"
Compare NC's pvp to a game of CS.
Cover? tactics? strategy? CS has them all, NC has none.
CS's vehicles are crap, but they're more useful then NC's.
Shadow Dancer
04-04-04, 22:38
Celt I have mixed feelings. You state some pretty good reasons for lowering runspeed. My only gripe is that sometimes when I'm at my prime, I can hit almost 95% of my hits. And I mean against people moving like crackheads on steroids. AND I personally consider myself to be someone with bad aim.
Now if you lower runspeed, it's gonna feel like 1v1 might turn into resists vs resists. I mean a good pvper will basically be hitting each shot. Unless you make the reticle close much slower for everyone.
Know what I mean?
I don't know what to vote yet. But yes sometimes I do feel like runspeed is too high for the reasons you stated.
it does say MAJOR overhaul, no its not going to be completely new, but its going to change alot, and it doesnt say they are but my originial point was they COULD..
COULD
I've been playing Neocron since late Beta 4 and I think, personally, that the runspeed should be lowered slightly, not drastically (I adore the 120/120 cap instead of 75/75 as a cap idea, it allows specialisation into a fast character) and that damage should be reconsidered.
I would rather move slightly slower and be able to take more hits/have to give more hits for death, than stay as it is now. If everything damage and speed wise were to be toned down (excluding vehicle speed) we would have essentially the same game we have now, but with more think-time, tactical decisions and forethought. Although, some of the rush I get from Neocron is just how insanely fast it is. :D
In my opinion we should lie low on the ideas front, see how BDoY and its changes pan out, and then boycott the game for the major feature changes we want afterward.
Steve
Alert: totally pointless post detected :rolleyes:
Strange how it is always the thread started has something useful to add like this. What happened to people having their own opinions?
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
Strange how it is always the thread started has something useful to add like this. What happened to people having their own opinions?
[edited for consistency]So, you think saying "get some aiming" in response to a poll about runspeed is something useful?
All it is, is making the poll out to be me whining because I cant aim.
Very useful.
I also love how you posted purely in response to that, and not to the poll.
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
I understand where you are coming from with regard to the initial thread posting ... but i would like to see some other solution to the problem than what you propose ... although that may not be possible ... in which case maybe you are on the right track. Ideally i would prefer to (1) leave run the way it is, (2) have vehicle travel sped up significantly to make them worth using in spite of current run speed, and (3) have a major rethink / redesign / rework of Op fights be done to make Outposts easier to defend, more difficult to take, more valuable to own, and more rewarding to retain.
As for why #1 above, with so many of the GRs closed to me on Pluto so often during any given week (even though i have all of GRs tagged) i often have to run rather far (from a non-Op aligned GR) to get to a particular hunting area. And since this is a game, and i pay real money monthly to play, i would like to the minimize the time i spend doing boring travel and maximize the time i spend doing things i consider fun. Now of course the answer could be "its a big place and takes a while to get around so live with it or drive" and sure i could accept that as an answer, but it would be nice anyway because as a hacking / poking / stealthy / Op fighting spy there really isnt any latitude for having driving skills as well without badly nerfing my setup which i finally have exactly the way i like with no extra points anywhere that matters.
#2 is a way of keeping #1 as is.
And #3 ... well there has been much debate about this issue across multiple threads and in great detail for some months now, so i wont rehash any of that here. Instead i simply re-emphasize my / our desire for KK to explore improvements.
Spook
Reasons I can see for decreasing runspeed:
1. Increases the importance, need and use of vehicles.
2. The need for using cover is almost non-existant. This is good for all short range/medium range fighters. For a long range fighter you are punished 2 times with the current run speed. People get in your face very, very fast and when they are up in your face any rifler will be hampered by its runspeed hit from the rifles.So effectivly NC is a short range combat game 90% of the time. Some will say this is good, I think it would be better with more longrange combat. It opens up new options and tactics on the battlefield.
3. I think a decrease or maximum runspeed based on class(if it where something like light(spies)fastest to heavy(tanks)slowest) would make the different classes stand out more and also it could remove the need of stealth.
If you ask me stealth is no good. The reason for this is that it disrupts combat commitment. Under certain circumstances stealth proves to be somewhat overpowered and also that it makes it to easy to get away from a fight. If you play your cards right no stealther really needs to die, but by doing so you don`t make much of an impact either. So for a spy you run around taking potshots, stealth and on it goes. Fighting other stealthers you often reach a stalemate and your time is better of spent hunting rareparts. I know I`m oversimplifying things a bit and reading this now, makes me realise I don`t get my point accross very good. I`ll try again. Stealth is a tool for letting spies and to some degree PE`s to fight on the terms of monks and tanks. PE`s and especially spies should be able to fight on their own terms. Exploiting what is supposed to be their strengths. Range (and if I had my way, speed). So when you choose to go to combat it should be a choice you have to ride all the way through. you run, shoot and hide. Thats what I mean by combat commitment. Either you win or you die. Not fighting for a while and when the heat gets turned up, stealth and run. I`m sure noone agrees with me on the stealth thing though.
Reasons for not decreasing runspeed: What shadowdancer said. Speed is life. By lowering it you would have to make alot of changes to the game balance. It would be painfull.
In NC some aspects are balanced and work well together, but unbalanced when compared to other aspects. It makes me feel, well it doesnt feel complete if you know what I mean. Runspeed is one of those aspects.
I agree completely, this is something that has been bothering me forever and
Ive tried to push this every opportunity I get. If you look at the other
_good_ fps games out there, what makes them interesting is the use of
cover and how you have to think about how you act. Doing a stupid move
can kill you! These things are accomplished by having lower runspeeds, when
you cant just run up to someone and circle them for them to miss, but
actually have to stay at a distance, jump out and take a shot and duck back
into cover etc. Also one of the reasons that vehicles suffer is that you run
way too fast as it is now. Its like quake 1 all over again, people are running
around like theyre on speed or something, its pathetic. Running in circles
around eachother is NOT fun gameplay, its just stupid.
Micro, nice counter-post. You are making me rethink things a bit. It would be great if KK could arrange to test out your ideas across multiple serious Op fights to see how things work out, tweeking and tuning the speed reduction to gage the effect(s). Give it a focused and fairly detailed period of testing and experimentation (as oppose to sledge hammer readjustments).
Spook
Lower run speed, leave vehicles as they are (maybe a slight boost for some of the shitty vehicles).
Now, you have to counter the lower run speed in PvP. Remove shockers completely. KK will never balance them, so they have to go. Now, you have to slow the target lock, or something along those lines (a lower run speed will cause some class's to become to strong by making aiming stupidly easy) so that things are balanced again. Perhaps a slight nerf to monk RoF due to target lock being very easy to keep (just the target lock speed nerf, would need EXTENSIVE test-server testing). Would make Neocron seem much bigger, make vehicles much more useful, and make PvP better (range becomes something that can be used!).
Actually, the easiest way to give a real example on this subject would be to
go play planetside. The fps gameplay is alot better than neocron, and thats
based solely on two things: lower runspeed and lower "health". Alot of
realistic features such as cover and strategic movement emerges from those
two concept.
Dribble Joy
05-04-04, 00:05
PS doesn't have a recticle though....
PS doesn't have a recticle though....
Yeah it does, its just not shown as it is in neocron.
**edit: What I mean is that its shown, but not in the same way as in
neocron, you dont have the hitbox system in the same way. This is one of
neocrons downsides but its minor compared to the runspeed.
Jadzia Eleazar
05-04-04, 00:08
Leave runspeed as it is, but increase the size of every sector. The reason why u can run from NC to MB in less than 15min is not runspeed, but the size of the map.
Think about it, why would u need nuclear missiles against DoY when its only 10km away? The map should be a lot bigger, especially when gliders are added (I suppose they move at least as fast as a hover).
PS doesn't have a recticle though....PS does have a recticle, it's described as a "cone of fire" though.
It's similar to NC's idea, but better implemented for an mmofps.
If only planteside had a decent community, I would have stayed with it :(
The reason why u can run from NC to MB in less than 15min is not runspeed
How isnt runspeed related to how fast it takes to travel somewhere,
especially when you run at approx 40km/h without having to break, ever?
Leave runspeed as it is, but increase the size of every sector. The reason why u can run from NC to MB in less than 15min is not runspeed, but the size of the map.
Think about it, why would u need nuclear missiles against DoY when its only 10km away? The map should be a lot bigger, especially when gliders are added (I suppose they move at least as fast as a hover).
Sounds good in theory, but would take forever. KK would have to re-do EVERY map in the game, then send them to us. The download would be huge (a problem for some I'm sure) and would take KK away from trying to fix the bugs in the game atm. Considering their lack of head-way in bug-fixing, I don't think takeing them away from that is a good idea.
I've always thought runspeed was a lil insane. It's why the world seems so small alot of times. Cause you can run across it fairly quickly >_>. I personally think spies should be the fastest and tanks with heavy weapons should be the slowest with everyone else in between. But there are some factors that would need adjusting. Yes you would need to adjust how much you can take in form of hits. with slower run speeds people will get hit more. Or weapon locks could be slowed overall. But things like weaponlocks won't affect things like Droning and Monks aim. Personally I think tanks should be slow be able to take a LOT more dmg from other class weapons. Buffed PPU type take dmg? and the big catchy be nautarually resistant to PSI. Yes they were genetically enginearred for combat but that doesnt' mean they can run a marathon with their weapons on their backs. But their dmg should be increased so if anyone gets up close BAM.
A runspeed nerf woudl also make combat vehicles more deadly since the turning on them is abysmal. It would make locks easier to accomplish. It would give rifle users a chance at range combat as it would take longer to reach them.
Yes the ath/agi should be increasd but it shouldn't reach the same speed as we have now but maybe close to it. Let's think of the noobs though if the speed is overall decrased let's keep in mind to have it not go any slower than a noob runner already runs with very lil ath or agility :angel:
And yes cover would be better cause if you run in too close you're going to get HIT alot. So you sould get behind a box then poke out and lock, fire. As oppsed to "Hey I have a good resists setup and I run like a caffine addict so I"ll just run straight at the person." type combat. I"m more for stragey than let's dance combat.
Given a reduced run speed ... what if the skill cost for Vehicles was significantly lowered so that someone like me could drive a single-seater at the cost of just a handfull of skill points instead of the higher value we have today? Do people think that would be unfair or unbalance things too much?
Or what about removing the need for skill allocation entirely by simply having it cost you cash over time as you burn fuel / power ... so you "pay" for the privilege of driving not with skill points but by money ... which might also help spur people to use vehicles more often since it would no longer gimp them so much? The faster the vehicle, and the more people it holds, and how much armor it has, and whether it has useable weapons, would all increase the ongoing fuel / power costs appropriately. And of course it costs you nothing if your vehicle(s) are garaged, but might or might not cost you when they are outside sitting idle waiting for your return.
Spook
Jadzia Eleazar
05-04-04, 00:19
How isnt runspeed related to how fast it takes to travel somewhere,
especially when you run at approx 40km/h without having to break, ever?
Well I've you travel 5km with 40km/h you'll get there pretty fast.
If you travel 400km with 40km/h it'll take a while.
And I don't care if KK has to redo every sector in the game. That's their job and I don't think that you'll need gigabytes of data for that.
SWG planets are huge, have no zones and can be downloaded in a reasonable amount of time (including the player cities). But with it's current nutshell size NC feels like a little CS map with high-tech weaponry.
Shadow Dancer
05-04-04, 00:19
How about let everyone drive vehicles, and their VHC determines speed and manueverability?
Dribble Joy
05-04-04, 00:19
I dunno, it just seems to me that you would get exactly the same type of combat you have now.. just slower.
Remember that people with uber comps run a lot faster due to runspeed being dependant on fps. Fix it like they did with vhcs and put every one on the same level.
Lower run speed, leave vehicles as they are (maybe a slight boost for some of the shitty vehicles).
Now, you have to counter the lower run speed in PvP. Remove shockers completely. KK will never balance them, so they have to go. Now, you have to slow the target lock, or something along those lines (a lower run speed will cause some class's to become to strong by making aiming stupidly easy) so that things are balanced again. Perhaps a slight nerf to monk RoF due to target lock being very easy to keep (just the target lock speed nerf, would need EXTENSIVE test-server testing). Would make Neocron seem much bigger, make vehicles much more useful, and make PvP better (range becomes something that can be used!).Have you actually sat down and looked at how fast people can run? I mean think about any movie where you're seen the character on a cliff looking down at someone running and see how slow you see them moving though they are running hard. Now get on a cliff in Neocron and see how fast you see someone run by. Maybe some people play in 3rd person alot and don't really see how BIG everything is to them. Just like vehicles. i've seen people complain that they aren't really big. But have you ever looked at it in FPS mode? those things are fairly huge. Maybe the interior but the outside is a nice size. We're running across ground a WAYYYY bit too fast.
SWG planets are huge, have no zones and can be downloaded in a reasonable amount of time (including the player cities). But with it's current nutshell size NC feels like a little CS map with high-tech weaponry.
I think you missed the point about downloading. You see when you purchased SWG and got the CDs and installed it got that world type data for you on your comp. so it just loads that stuff up in the proper way. But if KK makes any adjustments to maps they have to be sent to you via a patch cause you need the map itself.
Dribble Joy
05-04-04, 00:28
Vehicles ARE aloy faster than running though, a hover tech or even a tank is significantly faster than someone walking.
The issue of protective cover has been raised in this thread ...
I think their implementation of "cover" is far too Black & White as it were. You are either not targetable and cant be shot or you are and can be. For cover to be more meaningful, and more interesting to me as a sniper, would be if they introduce the concept of "partial cover" into the game - where you are potentially harder to hit based on how much of you is exposed from the shooters point of view and line of sight. Sure, i realize that's meaningful real work and could be tricky depending on what internal data their programmers have available and can use for such analysis, but i think it would add value to combat situations and be a new factor to take into account when attacking and counter attacking for both attackers and defenders alike.
Spook
I dunno, it just seems to me that you would get exactly the same type of combat you have now.. just slower.
nononono it becomes completely different. You cant just charge into enemies
because they will shoot you before you reach them, cover and peeking out
and shooting becomes critical, you can snipe, etc etc
I mean seriously, doesnt anyone see the fact that we are running at _at
least_ 40km/h (probably faster) as a wee bit fucked up?
Vehicles ARE aloy faster than running though, a hover tech or even a tank is significantly faster than someone walking.
I'll agree with you on the hover, but my 70 ath/80 agi PE can run faster than a tank.
Dribble Joy
05-04-04, 00:32
Must be something wrong with my PE, shes is 80/80 and definitely runs slower than a tank.
Jadzia Eleazar
05-04-04, 00:45
Still, I think that lowering run-speed will simply cause new problems, whereas increasing the map will be the best solution. After all, KK said that there will be new mobs, new locations, etc.
With the current map the place will be overcrowded then. And if I have to download 500MB, i don't care because I've DSL. Just to start with SWG I had to download the patches which tool approximately half an hour. And even if it takes one day, I don't care since there will be more content.
But lowering the runspeed will be give us the same stuff only in slow-mo. ;)
Still, I think that lowering run-speed will simply cause new problems,
I dont agree, imo it will solve most of the things that i think is borked with nc
atm.
I see where you're coming from Rade, but that would really need a key change - instead of the current reticle aiming system we'd have to shift over to a real cone of fire system. Then we could have things like suppressive fire, which then makes heavy weapons much more workable. Instead of tanks running round and round shooting away in much the same way as a pistol we could use them to lay down heavy fire and force enemies to keep their heads down, as heavy weapons are intended to do.
Melee damage would probably have to be increased a little though, and the big problem is that the current system is tolerant of high ping. I'm still on a 56k here. I'm not going to say no simply for selfish reasons though, I still think it should be done. But I can't speak for people in America who get the same ping as me on broadband connections.
EDIT: Increasing damage output on practically everything would be needed as well. Suppressive fire isn't very suppressive when you know that even if you get by a full clip of a heavy plasma cannon you'll live.
everyone seems to be saying that one of the main needs for lowering lowering run speed is to make vehicles more important.
well if the vehicles were decently fast they would be used more often. as it is hovertechs arnt much faster than my tank.
So, you think saying "get some aiming" in response to a poll about runspeed is something useful?
All it is, is making the poll out to be me whining because I cant aim.
Very useful.
I also love how you posted purely in response to that, and not to the poll.
[edited for consistency]
I voted no, so I am partaking. So, first get your facts straight.
And no - I didn't think that was all that constructive, but it is an open forum, you invite comments and criticism, so you are, in fact, whining when you can't accept them. Perhaps you do need to brush up on your skills.
And as for trash talking? Where have I told you to fuck off? I think perhaps a nerve has been touched.
-----------------------------
This is what is pissing me off more and more with this fuckin community. [edited for violation of the forum rules -- flaming] like this post a poll, ask for comments and then flame folks when they get them. God forbid you might actually need to get some skills.
So in response to you comment - [edited for violation of the forum rules -- flaming]
everyone seems to be saying that one of the main needs for lowering lowering run speed is to make vehicles more important.
well if the vehicles were decently fast they would be used more often. as it is hovertechs arnt much faster than my tank.Making vehicles faster still doesnt give them that much use.
Why go to an ASG, get a driver, and then drive, when you can GR, and run fast?
Dribble Joy
05-04-04, 01:07
I am torn over the matter tbh.
It would mean more tactical OP and long range fighting. But close range would remain the same.
I am simply worried about the effectiveness of the different weapon systems.
Pistols and heavy weapons would loose out massively to the riflers.
As Sickar said, with the current recticle system, things would kinda get borked.
Gah, this sounded much better in my head, stupid brain.
I mean seriously, doesnt anyone see the fact that we are running at _at
least_ 40km/h (probably faster) as a wee bit fucked up?
WELCOME....TO THE FUTURE!!!!!
IN THE FUTURE.....PEOPLE CAN RUN REALLY FUCKING FAST!!!!
ALL THANKS TO NUCLEAR BOMBS, DRUGS AND IMPLANTS!!!
THE FUTURE PEOPLE!!!!
AWESOME!!!!
Heres an idea someone posted before that might solve or at least give some ideas about losing the QUAEK III movement;
Pistols get the Psi aim at close range, Rifles at long range, and Cannons in medium range.
I voted no, so I am partaking. So, first get your facts straight.I never said you didnt vote, I said your post had NOTHING to do with the poll.
So get your facts right.
And no - I didn't think that was all that constructive, but it is an open forum, you invite comments and criticism, so you are, in fact, whining when you can't accept them.I can accept them, however, when someone tells me to get better aiming, when I never EVEN mentioned aiming as part of the reason for decreasing runspeed, then I can dismiss their comment as totally useless.
Perhaps you do need to brush up on your skills.And how would messr know this? What does it have to do with the poll?
And as for trash talking? Where have I told you to fuck off?.
I think perhaps a nerve has been touched.What you think is irrelevant, take my suggestion, and TAKE IT TO PM's.
This is what is pissing me off more and more with this fuckin community.Leave, I'm sure no-one will miss you.
[edited for consistency -- Vithar]this post a poll, ask for comments and then flame folks when they get them.I flamed you, not him.
His comment was pointless, it had nothing to do with the poll, or the points I posted.
I'm a [edited -- Vithar], w00t I win!.
So in response to you comment - [edited for consistency -- Vithar].I'm whiny and little :D
[edited for violation of the forum rules -- flaming], stop crying about the community and actually leave
[edit][edited for violation of the forum rules -- trolling]:)
Also this might make a few Monks slow....and you know what? PPUs might not be able to zip around the map able to absorb damage while escaping an angry mob...the PPU might have to....*GASP* INVEST HIS SKILLS ON HIS TEAMMATES FOR ADDED PROTECTION!!!!! No longer would the PPU escape his death by just putting a heal and running to the GR. He'd actually have to help his comrades or else he would die...WITH THEM. OH DEAR PPUS HAVING TO SUPPORT HIS TEAMMATES OR FACE DEATH? OH GEE SOUNDS LIKE A BAD IDEA AND UNBALANCING!!!
I think its perfect as the way it is. One of the things I've always liked about NC is that I can get to point A to point B without requiring 6 or more hours travel time like it so many other games. Vehicles are hardly useless as well, as a Hovertech can blast past a non-vehcile user with the greatest of ease, and the others are nifty for mob fighting.
All that needs to be done is the netcode needs to be spruced up a bit to fix jumps, and freezer weapons made slightly more powerful so super speedy folk can't zip around like The Flash in big battles.
nononono it becomes completely different. You cant just charge into enemies
because they will shoot you before you reach them, cover and peeking out
and shooting becomes critical, you can snipe, etc etc
I mean seriously, doesnt anyone see the fact that we are running at _at
least_ 40km/h (probably faster) as a wee bit fucked up?
I see it. There are so many things that get lost with the current runningspeed. Lets take the APC. An apc`s role is to bring soldiers to a certain destination and/or providing both firepower,cover and speed. In nc the apc is mainly used for transport or hunting mobs. The cover and speed is rarely needed and the turret is not very usefull in combat. Combine this with asg`s being spread out there is really no incentive to take one to an op-fight. I don`t mean I want asg everywhere that wouldnt help anything, rather there should to be reason enough to bother with getting the apc.
This is one example of what mean by saying that NC doesnt feel complete. NC has a number of great ideas and stuff you can use, but isnt needed or it isn`t properly balanced and that is one of the reasons that make me feel the "un-completeness". Its like they have taken the speed of the players in UT2004 and combined them with the the speed of the vehicles in BF1942. Things dont feel to belong in the same universe or abilities and items melt together making one ability or item redundant. In my hopinion there are things that cant co-exist in the same NC universe. One of those things is the current runspeed and vehicle speed. One has to give in. If vehicle speed is increased to match runspeed, vehicles would drive so fast it would just feel silly and the world would be alot smaller. Its the runspeed, it feels alien.
This is a very complicated issue and there is no easy solution as it spans from runspeed to size of the gameworld and all the stuff in between. What I would like to see NC change to as far as runspeed is concerned though is this:
I would like to see runspeed brought down. Vehicle speed kept as is.
I would like to see different weapons with different ranges. Meaning that for example rifles should be usefull out to a certain range and aim close slower the closer the target comes and finally become almost useless. I want to see different runspeeds for different classes making them stand out more, defined. Spies could be weapon specialists doing either rifles or pistols, PE`s being able to take a secondary combat skill to make a pistol/rifle hybrid. I want more combat commitment(Can I trademark this term?) by removing or changing stealth. I want it to play like rade said.
I didn't vote, because I'm still torn, but my girlfriend watched me playing my PE for the first time just today.
All she said was "You are dizzyingly fast."
If the runspeed would be lowered it would be way too easy to hit ppl.
If the runspeed would be lowered it would be way too easy to hit ppl.
If you didnt notice until now thats the entire point. :rolleyes:
oh man, do not lower the run speed :/
if anything raid the skill cap, but dont go give no other options, thats the reason i avoid the DOD mod for HL at all costs, it sucks :/ (not the mod, but the speed)
that way most high lvl Tanks if they wish could be fast. that was why i diddnt mind not being able to drive, because we have speed advantage. which i assume the cap was lowered since so everyone is fast now? (seems i gotta LoM some agility :/ having over 100 use to still help :/ )
-Crono
Yeah, i played PlanetSide for like 4 months or so. Vehicles worked real well there. Why? You felt you were traveling amply fast, and the distances involved were often large - so you felt like you were doing it right to head out in a buggy (or by dropship) because the distances still seemed fairly large but you got there in good time anyway. It felt right.
As for running, your running speed seemed okay, though perhaps a bit pokey (depending on armor penalties). So in general, you had no problem hoofing it to the next nearby Op if it wasnt very far, but to an Op more distant you pretty much hitched a ride with someone or drove (or flew) yourself. This seemed balanced as well, with good motivation and value for vehicle travel over running for long distances. And if you had certain heavy duty battlesuits available you could wear one, put it into run mode (with restriction you cant shoot while running), and zip off faster than running but slower than vehicles, but a good enough pace that it also felt right.
Would be good for KK folks to go off and experience PS travel modes and equipment and distances (if they haven't done that already) and see if Neocron could be evolved to have that same degree of satisfaction for running versus vehicles.
Spook
Over 100 agil does still help. I think you really top out at around 140 in either ath or agil.
Hmmm ... what about speed penalties based on armor type? The more protective the armor the slower you run, with meaningful reduction for the higher end PAs? This assumes of course that the series of armors are all generally worth using to begin with, because if the best ones are spurned anyway then the speed penalty becomes moot.
Spook
ahh man, if they nerf running thats one more thing that i liked about this game gone :/
I doubt they will nerf it man. It was actually increased with the last 'nerf' (because they eliminated the caps)
I don't see any major problem with runspeed, but my Athletics and Agility have never been over 50 or so in each.
Vehicles are not useless for me. My Spy has enough VHC to drive a Reveler and I use that or my Hovertec to get to places that I can't due to GR restrictions. Combined with my Obliterator, it makes it easy to get places that I otherwise cannot (only 4 agility and 40 athletics on my Spy).
The Reveler's slower than the Hovertec by far, but one can't beat the repair costs. After using the Rhino with my PE, though, I'd like to see it's speed increased by, say, 25%.
Oh, and to the person who thinks Stealth does anything for mobs, it doesn't. Once a mob sees you, it's over. Stealthing doesn't take you off their radar. I would very much like Stealth to include a Distract Mind function, but I doubt it will any time soon.
So, spies cant stealth/drive vehicles(its only 3/4 levels for a hovertec)?
What other class needs run really really fast ?
Ok, I agree. Vehicles are a good point. However, with the current implementation of vehicles you cannot have one strapped on your behind all the time.
However, if you nerf the runspeed, you must also nerf the runspeed with weapons out (since someone trying to run away must have an advantage over someone coming after them with a 20kg weapon on their shoulder, or a big rifle).
I believe the runspeed with certain weapons out is as low as it can be at the moment...
Lower the maximum runspeed.
I just logged on for the first time in weeks and immediately thought what the hell, I'm running twice as fast as I can in any other game! And it is always damn hard to target people in this game, especially considering it lags more than most games too.
Leave runspeed as it is, but increase the size of every sector. The reason why u can run from NC to MB in less than 15min is not runspeed, but the size of the map.
Think about it, why would u need nuclear missiles against DoY when its only 10km away? The map should be a lot bigger, especially when gliders are added (I suppose they move at least as fast as a hover).
dont think so,
every VHC in NC is designed on "slowness". this is based on the offroas style of NC roads. making NC VHC move faster wouzld have the effect that you end up in MB in around 2 minutes without any fear of getting hit.
if you look at gliders they are small and lightwight with open cockpits and move slow carriers and bombers are BIG and move slow.
if you make vhc faster all you get is making less damage on a taget because you are to fast and cant aimand once again a VHC is only a "im a bad PvP getaway toy" and not a "im fast and you cant hit me toy".
making the map "bigger is not the solution because NC is a city based combat system with NC as city and the ops as suburbia. Setting the runspeed and damage formular in PvP to 2/3 seems to be more easy.
little edit:
maybe its not the speed we have to talk about but the STA.
its kind of ok to chase a VHC in an offroad enviromend but it should need more STA??? what you think !
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 10:35
Which is easier for KK to do(in your opinion):
Lower runspeed(which is just a formula)
Rework graphics engine completely to increase the clipping plane or remove it
?
+ and + = leave as it is
make vehicles faster. keep the running speed the same. if u lower the running speed you'll just spend more time wandering about when you'd rather be where the action is
Lower runspeed.
Slow aiming and either nerf monk RoF or add monk aiming.
Speed up vehicles.
Make zones bigger or add more zones.
Lower peoples health but lower the negative effects of dying.
Lower runspeed.
Slow aiming and either nerf monk RoF or add monk aiming.
Lower peoples health but lower the negative effects of dying.
Lower people's health? People already die fast enough as it is. :p
If the negative effects of dying were lowered anymore, you'd just end up instantly respawning in the same place you were before with no SI or implant loss. :p
IMO those suggestions would just make the game slower but still the same, which would really suck, and there needs to be some penalty to death, otherwise we'd have runners imitating kamikaze drones. :p
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 12:07
Lower runspeed.
Slow aiming and either nerf monk RoF or add monk aiming.
Speed up vehicles.
Make zones bigger or add more zones.
Lower peoples health but lower the negative effects of dying.
[ edited ]
i say leave it as it is, if you have problems targeting people, get some skills.
people say oh well it will make vehicles more usefull, err not really if you mak it so you need to put more in to ath/agility to run fast, then people aint gonna waste the points into vehicle, cos they know they are gonna need the extra points to run fast.
the slow guy with vehicle skill or the fast guy with full PvP setup, let me think who the likely to win..
if its for vehicles, then make yourself a char setup around using vehicles, if its cos you cant aim, then practice it makes perfect :p
personally i have np with the way it is now though no doubt you will flame be for stating my opinion like rincy did :rolleyes:
Lower people's health? People already die fast enough as it is. :p
If the negative effects of dying were lowered anymore, you'd just end up instantly respawning in the same place you were before with no SI or implant loss. :p
People are too reliant on ppu buffs and not their own skill or resists to stay alive thats how they die too fast, a good tank setup has capped health and near capped resists with a ppu buff.As a beta tester once told me to have nearly 300 body health was considered uber in early beta.People are not too hard to kill a buffed tank can run from the UG run around for a minute before having to go back into the UG to be healed and rebuffed
So reducing a 5 minute wait of SI automatically means that its reduced to no SI and no chance of implants falling out?
Where did I say that or did you come to that conclusion on your own?
Basically pvp is too slow in this game reducing these effects will encourage people dead at op wars to gr out get poked rather then sit around dead spying for their clan.It will also speed up attacks by defeated attackers althought this may get annoying it would generally give high level people more to do then stand about waiting all the time for something to happen.
People who think that this is just about getting some skill and noobs that
cant aim must really have missed the entire thread.
...if its for vehicles, then make yourself a char setup around using vehicles, if its cos you cant aim, then practice it makes perfect :p ..
/me think its not about targeting its about world size and speed over time compared to VHC.
btw, i think you know that there is no VHC setup because you get no benefit of driving/turning faster with more skill. :rolleyes:
I don't know what to vote for but firstly vehicles are not pathetic, the VITAL problem with vehicles is that fine you die in an opwar you gr, get imps back, you lose at an opwar with a rhino tank you PAY you PAY bad....unless rhinos are going to create a huge boost in your clans ability it won't be used because its very expensive and not very effective at the most.
Now there is STILL considerable difference using a hovertech or a wheeler to get to one place, then walking to one place, its easier on terrain as well so I don't think vehicles are a major concern in terms of runspeed, they are still a hell lot faster.
I have no solution for the vehicle problem and I don't think this solves it either unless vehicles are boosted immensly to the point where they are worth using and dying with in an op fight.
Now for the runspeed decrease, it isn't really a solution, why not, firstly slowing down yourself doesn't make the world alot bigger, it just makes it alot more annoying, in case you haven't noticed half of neocron is just boring plain land. It might psychologically make it bigger but it just makes it feel more empty in the end.
As for pvp yes in some regards you are right, but the reason fights end up close anyways is because of shelter/deflector foreign cast, because every class has the same level of defence we just all end up fighting in a messy whirlwind, and in the end the APUs/Tanks get most out of it.
Riflers are underpowered because of the damage, and pistolers are way too fast and does EQUAL the dame of riflers, thats the problem. The shields and the damage imbalance of type of weapons. The runspeed decrease will do nothing but make it all easier to aim, PPUs will parashock you every end and with the power of para now its pretty much going to screw your whole idea up, imagine skillless DB, Para and heal. Fights will be reduced to nothing but a test of resists and damage output, no doubt the monks will be even more overpowered then they already are..
make shields self cast, increase riflers damage, that will fix everything. If shields were self cast then like CS or planet side, classes wil be back where they should be, the only class that can afford fighting close up would be the tanks. Its the shields that make the PVP and OP Fights so boring nowadays and with parashock every corner you're idea is already pretty much applied to the game during op fights.
the only problem you will solve using that method is range, but for generating all the problems mentioned above, simply range is useless in op fights because of the stupid shields monks can give to everyone granted if it wasn't for those resists PPUs can give, sniping is alot easier, and anyone rifle who does solo wastelands pvp would know that.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 12:56
[ edited ]
Oh another thing, make the rhino gun do AE damage, its pathetic as it is.
Also, either the rhino should be remade into artillery or we should have a new
artillery vehicle. Meaning that it should do AE, and it should fire in an arc like
the grenade launchers, only it wouldnt bounce while landing but explode
immediately. That way you can use artillery on an OP etc, Imo it would be
sufficient to revamp rhino to do this, its gun could be used as both AE and as
it is used now. As usual, for more inspiration, see planetside.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 13:08
I don't know what to vote for but firstly vehicles are not pathetic, the VITAL problem with vehicles is that fine you die in an opwar you gr, get imps back, you lose at an opwar with a rhino tank you PAY you PAY bad....unless rhinos are going to create a huge boost in your clans ability it won't be used because its very expensive and not very effective at the most.
Now there is STILL considerable difference using a hovertech or a wheeler to get to one place, then walking to one place, its easier on terrain as well so I don't think vehicles are a major concern in terms of runspeed, they are still a hell lot faster.
I have no solution for the vehicle problem and I don't think this solves it either unless vehicles are boosted immensly to the point where they are worth using and dying with in an op fight.
Now for the runspeed decrease, it isn't really a solution, why not, firstly slowing down yourself doesn't make the world alot bigger, it just makes it alot more annoying, in case you haven't noticed half of neocron is just boring plain land. It might psychologically make it bigger but it just makes it feel more empty in the end.
As for pvp yes in some regards you are right, but the reason fights end up close anyways is because of shelter/deflector foreign cast, because every class has the same level of defence we just all end up fighting in a messy whirlwind, and in the end the APUs/Tanks get most out of it.
Riflers are underpowered because of the damage, and pistolers are way too fast and does EQUAL the dame of riflers, thats the problem. The shields and the damage imbalance of type of weapons. The runspeed decrease will do nothing but make it all easier to aim, PPUs will parashock you every end and with the power of para now its pretty much going to screw your whole idea up, imagine skillless DB, Para and heal. Fights will be reduced to nothing but a test of resists and damage output, no doubt the monks will be even more overpowered then they already are..
make shields self cast, increase riflers damage, that will fix everything. If shields were self cast then like CS or planet side, classes wil be back where they should be, the only class that can afford fighting close up would be the tanks. Its the shields that make the PVP and OP Fights so boring nowadays and with parashock every corner you're idea is already pretty much applied to the game during op fights.
the only problem you will solve using that method is range, but for generating all the problems mentioned above, simply range is useless in op fights because of the stupid shields monks can give to everyone granted if it wasn't for those resists PPUs can give, sniping is alot easier, and anyone rifle who does solo wastelands pvp would know that.
now this is a great post
however 2 or 3 things
by reducing the range on spells, those u play monks have no chance but fighting in close combat, and cleary states that spells and apu pp'us are for close combat, as well CS and devourer.
the place where u want to have range combat is not op's, kuz ur trtying to fight for a piece (very small of land), so u have no other choice but get it close
Rifles do shit load of damage, prob is with some Pe's that use low tech rifles (PE) want to have high tech so they can run in stealth.
SPys ******** basicly anyone ass with range with silent hunter so i think they are fine
Buff's from ppu's, basicly everyone has it, and once againi mention the fact the op's kuz that we are talking about, so with that in mind so some with them take more damage then others, puting the resist skill working
remove all psi from all non psi classes and i have np with self cast s/d
get some skills.
[ edited ]
Jadzia Eleazar
05-04-04, 13:20
Again, run-speed is not the problem, but the mini-map. Even with lower run-speed all you get is a mini-world making the average village looking like a mega-city.
And if you have problems hitting people, it's not because of run-speed but because of the targeting circle. In RL you can aim a lot faster than NC, coz the bullets fly where you aim at and there's no need to wait for a circle to close.
But hey, this would need a lot more calculations and rifles would need ballistics and that's why KK won't implement it.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 13:32
edited for consistancy
[ edited ]
What about keeping the speed (or lowering it a little bit) but increasing the stamnia drain a lot?
People in RL can almost run as fast as a RL Tank but only for a very short period of time. And if you give boostes some kind of flash (very little but cumulativ) then it would solve the problem. You can still run very fast but not for long time running. Maybe there could be some stages between walking and full speed running.
i say leave it as it is, if you have problems targeting people, get some skills.It has nothing to do with targeting people.
people say oh well it will make vehicles more usefull, err not really if you mak it so you need to put more in to ath/agility to run fast, then people aint gonna waste the points into vehicle, cos they know they are gonna need the extra points to run fast.The point was slowing down maximum runspeed, not raising the cap(mine at least)
the slow guy with vehicle skill or the fast guy with full PvP setup, let me think who the likely to win..There is more than pvp in neocron.
if its for vehicles, then make yourself a char setup around using vehicles,I've had a rhino/apc driver since january 2003.
if its cos you cant aim, then practice it makes perfect :p Again, what does that have to do with anything?
personally i have np with the way it is now though no doubt you will flame be for stating my opinion like rincy did :rolleyes:"rincy" never stated an opinion, he just whined and cried over the community.
Jadzia Eleazar
05-04-04, 14:07
Ever seen a RL Tank? A RL Tank is about twice as fast as a world-record 100m runner. And they don't have to slow down off-road by, much but the strain on the crew can be extreme then.
...
There is more than pvp in neocron.
...
you wish .....
:D
you wish .....
:DTry venus :)
A modern tank goes at 80km/h without problem in bad terrain. A athlete
sprinter can rush at almost 40km/h for 100 meters (9 seconds). In neocron
everyone can run at 50km/h for as long as they want, they just have to
chuck a stamina booster every other minute o_O
Try venus :)
i may be fair good with french kissing but my last rating in school was F and that was 17 years ago ....
i know that there is something else even on the other servers.
this thread is just one of many other in the last few weeks where ppl demand other things them pure PvP because bigger guns and more armour is no fun any more (for some players)
A modern tank goes at 80km/h without problem in bad terrain. A athlete
sprinter can rush at almost 40km/h for 100 meters (9 seconds). In neocron
everyone can run at 50km/h for as long as they want, they just have to
chuck a stamina booster every other minute o_O
yes BUT a in real life the runner dont have bone implants heart implants and mechanical lungs. Why cant you freaking ppl not stop comparing neocron to real life, its soo stupid that my head hurts every time I read a post like this.
I just can't belive you guys want a slower game... I mean its the one thing thats good with neocron...
The run speed is perfect right now... who cares about vechs anyway?.... go whine about the vech zone crashing first.....
Neocron have fast and good pvp... its the one thing that makes it better than most mmo's... dont go fuck it up... If you want to be slow then go play ANY other mmo.
I mean go play lineage2 and try a orc char... unplayable because of the large world and slow runspeed....
Worst thread ever, as a matter of fact it makes me sick.
edit: @ celt yea im trying venus and you dont seem to like it :D
[ edited ]
you were edited for the site you advertised, thats sites a nono around here iirc :p
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 14:48
There is more than pvp in neocron.
then stoop to try and change sometin that is directed mainly if not only to PvP
even all the points (or almost all ) were by giving PvP exemples
get ur mind straight before u talk
... who cares about vechs anyway?.... go whine about the vech zone crashing first.....
...
1. a lot of ppl do....
2. hmm, when u used the last VHC ? ok there is a problem on a full load APC but any other VHC zone perfect. if you have complained about suddenly disapperin VHC then it would show you use them from time to time.
"rincy" never stated an opinion, he just whined and cried over the community.
[ edited ]
There are only a handful of kids on these boards that I don't like, and that is just because they are NEVER wrong. No matter what it is...
[ edited ]
lmao yes thats advertising, you spamm0r
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 15:13
[ edited ]
There are only a handful of kids on these boards that I don't like, and that is just because they are NEVER wrong. No matter what it is...
ppl lost their fucking prespective on these boards
they cry and whine for sometin that the only problem is not suit their "what this game should be" and not the real problems that actually make ppl fucking leave this game
runspeed is nerfed enough with the negatives in the PA's
"the VHC isnt fast enoguh"
wrong the VHC crashes every zone when it is full of ppl
now thats a problem
maybe if my original post had been left intact i would not have done this.
i did not even leave an active link and the post was a comment taken from your, yet u eza where no edited.
these in-consistencies wind me upi was just telling them to get some skills you see :D
plus your black cartel, thats a auto edit :p
Get back on topic. If you don't like an edit then contact me, do not discuss it on the forums.
N
[ edited ]
More like, if you constantly post shit the mods have lower patience with you,
which sometimes coincide with what ezza said.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 15:23
[ edited ]
LMAO
worse is when u are Cartel and Devils Grace
and like stig says i am pork and cheese and most my post have to be read carefully to fully understand it, it gets the Edit thingy
bolox ur a tit stig :lol:
Yup - I am willing to guess that the original whiney fuck made this thread 'cos he got owned by someone fast - it's always the fuckin way! There are more and more threads like this that keep popping up, and more often than not, it is those that are crap that start 'em.
Either that or he hasnt specced for runspeed himself, or strafes like a retard so is easy to hit etc ...
I don't think that pork and cheese idiom translates from portugese to english very well DG, much like the rabbit and cat think in Stig's sig. :p
Last chance to cut the spam and get back on topic.
N
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 15:28
I don't think that pork and cheese idiom translates from portugese to english very well DG, much like the rabbit and cat think in Stig's sig. :p
hehe im only guessing that u guyz dont eat rabbit in UK
in here we do, and if u take out the skin to a rabit and a cat, they are very similar.
plus the fact in here when u go to restaurants and u ask for rabitt its very expensive, so we say that, its not rabit its cat, thus the profit is bigger :lol:
edit - sorry N u posted faster then me
pork and cheese idiom ?
pork and cheese sounds kinda a like port-u-gese.
and on topic.......what is this thread about, yea the runspeed is good, u cant hit someone getsomeskills :p
Rince, sorry but now you are just being asinine. I have tried to push for this
for as long as I can remember, yet I am one of the guys who rely most on
runspeed in this game, where do you (and the other people who say similar
things) come off saying that its because I should get some skills or learn to
adapt to the this system? I HAVE adapted perfectly to this system, my
success proves that, that is in no way related to why I want this changed.
Other team-based FPS games nowadays have much better gameplay
nowadays largely because they DO have more realistic runspeeds and
damage thresholds, the old FPS games where you ran in circles around
eachother like mongooses on speed and you took round after round without
caring are long gone now. Tactics and strategy cant be utilized with this
messed up physics, tactics and strategy is what pushes team based combat
from mildly entertaining to fucking fun. There is no strategy behind troop
movement in neocron, there is no sniping, ther is no use of cover (even if the
target box removes the _some_ of the partial cover part of using cover there
are still many other uses, like staying completely covered and then popping
up taking a shot, then hiding again), its just about getting into the fray and
doing your best and hopefully you will come out on top. All of this is due to
the fact that you move too fast and/or are able to take too much damage.
Compare to any other team based FPS game and you will notice an immense
increase of fun in the gameplay simply because they have more realism which
makes for a SHITLOAD of tactics and strategy, which is damn fun. Practicing
to become better at playing a FPS game is ok but practicing to work better
together as a team and develop better tactics is damn fun.
pork and cheese idiom ?
pork and cheese sounds kinda a like port-u-gese.
and on topic.......what is this thread about, yea the runspeed is good, u cant hit someone getsomeskills :p
Hmm you're probably right.
This thread is either about making PvP more tactical etc. or its about lack of skills. If it's lack of skills on Celt's part then there's not much to be said. If it's about making PvP more tactical then like I said, it would need major changes, completely overhauling the aiming system and possibly isloating American players and 56kers.
Rince, sorry but now you are just being asinine. I have tried to push for this
for as long as I can remember, yet I am one of the guys who rely most on
runspeed in this game, where do you (and the other people who say similar
things) come off saying that its because I should get some skills or learn to
adapt to the this system? I HAVE adapted perfectly to this system, my
success proves that, that is in no way related to why I want this changed.
Other team-based FPS games nowadays have much better gameplay
nowadays largely because they DO have more realistic runspeeds and
damage thresholds, the old FPS games where you ran in circles around
eachother like mongooses on speed and you took round after round without
caring are long gone now. Tactics and strategy cant be utilized with this
messed up physics, tactics and strategy is what pushes team based combat
from mildly entertaining to fucking fun. There is no strategy behind troop
movement in neocron, there is no sniping, ther is no use of cover (even if the
target box removes the _some_ of the partial cover part of using cover there
are still many other uses, like staying completely covered and then popping
up taking a shot, then hiding again), its just about getting into the fray and
doing your best and hopefully you will come out on top. All of this is due to
the fact that you move too fast and/or are able to take too much damage.
Compare to any other team based FPS game and you will notice an immense
increase of fun in the gameplay simply because they have more realism which
makes for a SHITLOAD of tactics and strategy, which is damn fun. Practicing
to become better at playing a FPS game is ok but practicing to work better
together as a team and develop better tactics is damn fun.
er yea
Rince, sorry but now you are just being asinine. I have tried to push for this
for as long as I can remember, yet I am one of the guys who rely most on
runspeed in this game, where do you (and the other people who say similar
things) come off saying that its because I should get some skills or learn to
adapt to the this system? I HAVE adapted perfectly to this system, my
success proves that, that is in no way related to why I want this changed.
Other team-based FPS games nowadays have much better gameplay
nowadays largely because they DO have more realistic runspeeds and
damage thresholds, the old FPS games where you ran in circles around
eachother like mongooses on speed and you took round after round without
caring are long gone now. Tactics and strategy cant be utilized with this
messed up physics, tactics and strategy is what pushes team based combat
from mildly entertaining to fucking fun. There is no strategy behind troop
movement in neocron, there is no sniping, ther is no use of cover (even if the
target box removes the _some_ of the partial cover part of using cover there
are still many other uses, like staying completely covered and then popping
up taking a shot, then hiding again), its just about getting into the fray and
doing your best and hopefully you will come out on top. All of this is due to
the fact that you move too fast and/or are able to take too much damage.
Compare to any other team based FPS game and you will notice an immense
increase of fun in the gameplay simply because they have more realism which
makes for a SHITLOAD of tactics and strategy, which is damn fun. Practicing
to become better at playing a FPS game is ok but practicing to work better
together as a team and develop better tactics is damn fun.
I don't know but I think a game that is good doesn't neccesary need to be realistic, how real is unreal tournament 2004? totally unrealistic yet absolute blast to play. If neocron was anywhere realistic with slow runspeeds, low health, and lose all items when you die, or deletion of character, but no...thanks to having genrep, futuristic technology could we have a better game, games are not meant to be realistic period. You could say making the game more fun, not more realistic. The fact is for science fiction I can go on and on with you e.g cybernetic implants, tanks are biologically programmed to be walking war machines e.g e.g but to me game balance has nothing to do with anything modern, realistic or sciencetific.
While I agree read my previous post of this thread, and that is why this idea will not work coupled with the target box thing, meaning lower runspeed will become very very easy aiming, unlike FPS you don't need a keen mouse aim to hit something in neocron u just need to click something once now and then. The stunning small player community and unbalanced faction distribution of course all but make it worse for team works and op fights.
However sucessfull u are ..sniping is crap because of the dmg output rifles generally are underpowered in damage, anyone with half decent mouse skills can target and snipe...and half brained idiot can take cover after about 2-3 shots and they are still alive. Especially with PPU monks around it makes sniping all but completely pointless,even if runspeed was decreased, it would not make op fights any more fun as long as PPU monkehs are around.
You notice something all those good games u mention? They all have no PPU class... in no good game does one class does so much ridiculous things and makes their team indestructible and crumbles the defence of another, all but one man...which game offers a class where u can godamn put a heal over time that actually outheals most weapons? none at all, if you still don't see what the problem is then....I have no more to say..
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 16:09
I don't know but I think a game that is good doesn't neccesary need to be realistic, how real is unreal tournament 2004? totally unrealistic yet absolute blast to play. If neocron was anywhere realistic with slow runspeeds, low health, and lose all items when you die, or deletion of character, but no...thanks to having genrep, futuristic technology could we have a better game, games are not meant to be realistic period. You could say making the game more fun, not more realistic. The fact is for science fiction I can go on and on with you e.g cybernetic implants, tanks are biologically programmed to be walking war machines e.g e.g but to me game balance has nothing to do with anything modern, realistic or sciencetific.
While I agree read my previous post of this thread, and that is why this idea will not work coupled with the target box thing, meaning lower runspeed will become very very easy aiming, unlike FPS you don't need a keen mouse aim to hit something in neocron u just need to click something once now and then. The stunning small player community and unbalanced faction distribution of course all but make it worse for team works and op fights.
However sucessfull u are ..sniping is crap because of the dmg output rifles generally are underpowered in damage, anyone with half decent mouse skills can target and snipe...and half brained idiot can take cover after about 2-3 shots and they are still alive. Especially with PPU monks around it makes sniping all but completely pointless,even if runspeed was decreased, it would not make op fights any more fun as long as PPU monkehs are around.
You notice something all those good games u mention? They all have no PPU class... in no good game does one class does so much ridiculous things and makes their team indestructible and crumbles the defence of another, all but one man...which game offers a class where u can godamn put a heal over time that actually outheals most weapons? none at all, if you still don't see what the problem is then....I have no more to say..
1st this is not CS
2nd from a apu prespective i say again, since ive realised ur problem is not the runspeed but the ppu's
remove the PSI from all non PSI chars and im fine with foregein s/d
remove the abilty of PE's to cast S/D and ide say pvp is balanced
and i also know what problem u have reagrding the ppu's but to mention it it would be flame
and make up ur mind and realise... that ..... PvP is not the same as op's wars
either way nerfing runspeed will not fix op wars OR pvp OR exploring. I ain't saying they are completely broken either.
I'm not sure on your idea, but wouldn't PEs be totally useless without psi buffs ^^...
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 16:19
either way nerfing runspeed will not fix op wars OR pvp OR exploring. I ain't saying they are completely broken either.
I'm not sure on your idea, but wouldn't PEs be totally useless without psi buffs ^^...
when u mean useless u mean fast dieing ??? yes they will...
as every other class cept the ppu
Nah DG, PEs would still be fine with S/D, take stealth off them and they'd be in the same position as the other classes, and that would work.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 16:30
Nah DG, PEs would still be fine with S/D, take stealth off them and they'd be in the same position as the other classes, and that would work.
nahh stealthing PE's only win if they arent hit, kuz if u hit them and with the correct weapon all they do is run and hide( with the correct weapon just run)
and ur right the D is not the problem the S is
make them equal in terms of PSI to spys and tanks and i dont have a problem with foregein S/D cast removed.
untill then ide say ppu's balance pvp.
the main problem is some have one always up their ass (and before someone flame i here say that most of the time i do) and some dont....(small minoroti (spell)) and some choose not to play with one (their choice) and some dont make/have friends
any sort of reasons all justified.
so u dont want ppu's fine, i dont want PE's with s/d
With the variety of posts on the subject, I'd have to say give stamina boosters drugflash. Only a little, but enough to thwart you using many one after the other in an attempt to sprint the world.
Minimal nerfing, stopping only those who intend to run EVERYWHERE without stopping to take a break.
Steve
how real is unreal tournament 2004? (and the rest of your post)
Im comparing to a TEAM based FPS game with elements such as charging
bases etc. I havent played much of the new ut but if its anything like the old
one its not even close to what Im talking about. Gotta run, I'll get back on
the subject tonite.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 17:12
to the fucktard that rated my post by saying this
Removing s/d from PE's is stupid - PE lover
i say nerf hybrids is stupid - hybrid lover
and only indicates that ppl only want things change to their satisfaction, and not to balance wich ever it is to balance
its stupid in the same way it is stupid to remove foregein S/D
its stupid in the same way is clear u cant win no one that has a ppu up is ass and u have aswell (wich is called balance when 2 ppl have the same ppu bicth) so u want them removed to make u have a way to win ( wich i doubt anyway)
I didnt rate you but I actually do think that removing SD from PE is
completely retarded. My melee tank is way better than my PE as it is, and
you propose to nerf PEs further? Most PEs have no chance against tanks in
one on one, and APU vs PE is pretty balanced as well, it swayed a little in the
PEs favour since the HL nerf but not by far. Why would you want to nerf PEs
to such a length that they arent viable in any way? It doesnt sound like we
are talking about PE lovers rating you but you being a PE hater.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 17:48
I didnt rate you but I actually do think that removing SD from PE is
completely retarded. My melee tank is way better than my PE as it is, and
you propose to nerf PEs further? Most PEs have no chance against tanks in
one on one, and APU vs PE is pretty balanced as well, it swayed a little in the
PEs favour since the HL nerf but not by far. Why would you want to nerf PEs
to such a length that they arent viable in any way? It doesnt sound like we
are talking about PE lovers rating you but you being a PE hater.
wrong
the problem is that PE's without any self S/D will die as fast as an unbuffed apu, and that u guyz cant tolerate
i agree that melee tanks are a bicth, but not kuz of con setups or self/forgein buffs, its kuz of their runspeed, making those little kids that think they are to fast, not able to hit them and therefore die and then request a nerf.....tipical
i can live without buffs, PE's should do the same, simple, that way the damage inflicted it will be pretty balanced
or are u goin to say that u spend 4 clips of lib or PE to kill a unbuffed apu ?
u better not kuz then get some aiming skills (note the some aiming betwen the get and skills)
If you look at the class definitions by KK APUs and Spies are defined as
fragile, whereas PEs arent. To make up for it APUs should do the most
damage in the game and Spies should have toys/tradeskills which the PEs
cant reach as easily. Its a simple fact that PEs shouldnt die as fast as
an unbuffed APU, and I doubt you can find much support for that idea here.
I suppose so.....its something I wouldn't know unless I was in the system. PEs are basically tanks wannabes without stealth, and with stealth if foreign cast S/D is removed they will become a lil bit over the top. I think he means that PEs would be overpowered if S/D was made foreign cast rade, but i'll agree with rade that removing all PSI from PEs would be overkill.
and the new unreal 2004 is pretty much like op fighting, but granted I'll agree that my example is a bit exxagerated, as its still as frantic as hell making teamwork less important then quick reactions. But then CS isn't realistic so I hope I made my point. Rainbow Six is an example of a very real game, but I think its not fun anymore :/
I think AO is a good example for neocron to work towards regarding the exploring or world size and roleplaying elements plus vehicle importance, op fighting there is very teamwork based, but very less aim based, I don't want neocron to become an autoaim thing, but I think there are good points we should learn from other games which implemented the whole teamwork thing alot better, teamwork meaning everyone has a different role and so on.
Actually I remember when I first started playing planetside during the beta, I
said the exact same things that people are saying here, that it felt
annoyingly sluggish etc. It took less then a week to get used to it and then
you realised how much better the gameplay was because of it. I understand
that people dont want to feel more sluggish but its not a nerf aimed
specifically at YOU, everyone will get the same problems, and everyone will
have to adapt and fight more carefully. Careful fighting as opposed to enter
the fray fighting is much more fun due to the tactical side. More ASGs would
also be needed, to make it as easy to travel as it was before, just by using
different means. One of the best aspects of PS is the travel, you always
have people who specialize more or less in vehicles which are _necesary_ to
transport you clan to and from battles. It adds alot to the feeling to travel
together to the combat in an APC and the people who have tried doing it in
OP wars for kicks can probably attest to that. And dont get me started on
doing Hot-Drops into a large battle from a fully loaded dropship :D
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 18:06
If you look at the class definitions by KK APUs and Spies are defined as
fragile, whereas PEs arent. To make up for it APUs should do the most
damage in the game and Spies should have toys/tradeskills which the PEs
cant reach as easily. Its a simple fact that PEs shouldnt die as fast as
an unbuffed APU, and I doubt you can find much support for that idea here.
agreed so regarding KK class defenition i want PE's Tanks and Spys to explode if i (the apu) fart.........i mean look at ya.
so lets go back a bit
so why cant a PE win with a ppu up is ass ?
why they cry so much to the ppu's or hybrids to be removed from the game ?
dont reply "kuz they must suck " kuz thats exaclty my point
they are good for soloing !!!
yes so are the hybrids
then give the apu the abiltity to cast him self tl3 heal self S/D exactly the same way (same stats on spells) without any penalty
what will it be
in fact there isnt any way possible to get an agreement, besides the fact that either side have the same chances when they have ppu buffs, making the game balanced
no the game is not balance when u dont have a ppu on ur side and the other person has one, but this is suposed to be a team work game (the mm on the rpg) so recruit (clans) make friends/ individual, or stop whining
yes u can say "thats PvP to much dependent of the ppu"
yes maybe
then lets go back again and remove any PSI from all non PSI classes and u have a CS game
Shit DG no offence but I have problems reading your posts because of the
weird flow, so I cant really tell if you're logic is messed up or if its just the
spelling/grammar.
**edit: btw if this is about the self-cast thing then just fyi, Im not really in
favour of that. Imo PPUs should be balanced by reducing the effectiveness of
shelter, deflector and heal, because those spells are too powerfull atm.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 18:19
Shit DG no offence but I have problems reading your posts because of the
weird flow, so I cant really tell if you're logic is messed up or if its just the
spelling/grammar.
**edit: btw if this is about the self-cast thing Im not really in favour of that,
imo PPUs should be balanced by reducing the effectiveness if shelter,
deflector and heal, becuase those spells are too powerfull atm.
logic is there, my grammar, spelling, pontuation, verbs, arent, read it slow
agreed 75% with ur edit...
end
I WAS going to say keep it as is, BUT after reading every ones post, I decided the run speed is rather....
ridiculous, absurd, antic, bizarre, comic, comical, contemptible, daffy, derisory, droll, fantastic, farcical, fool-headed, foolish, funny, gelastic, goofy, grotesque, harebrained, hilarious, impossible, incredible, jerky, laughable, ludicrous, nonsensical, nutty, outrageous, preposterous, risible, sappy, silly, slaphappy, stupid, unbelievable, wacky… ETC…… ETC……. :)
So I'm voting to lower it to almost normal speed.
After all the more realistic things are the more meaningful and fun it is to play NC. The more sense things make the better.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 18:29
Keep your spam out of the posts and direct message eachother next time.
1st u have to say ....whats normal speed
second whats reall on a modified genetic tank ????
on a healing light, on a drone, on a shelter, defelctor, Fire apoc, grim chaser, on MJS :p (joking)
on the quote above................hmmmmmmmmm i better put my self on a leech
Rince, sorry but now you are just being asinine. I have tried to push for this
for as long as I can remember, yet I am one of the guys who rely most on
runspeed in this game, where do you (and the other people who say similar
things) come off saying that its because I should get some skills or learn to
adapt to the this system? I HAVE adapted perfectly to this system, my
success proves that, that is in no way related to why I want this changed.
Other team-based FPS games nowadays have much better gameplay
nowadays largely because they DO have more realistic runspeeds and
damage thresholds, the old FPS games where you ran in circles around
eachother like mongooses on speed and you took round after round without
caring are long gone now. Tactics and strategy cant be utilized with this
messed up physics, tactics and strategy is what pushes team based combat
from mildly entertaining to fucking fun. There is no strategy behind troop
movement in neocron, there is no sniping, ther is no use of cover (even if the
target box removes the _some_ of the partial cover part of using cover there
are still many other uses, like staying completely covered and then popping
up taking a shot, then hiding again), its just about getting into the fray and
doing your best and hopefully you will come out on top. All of this is due to
the fact that you move too fast and/or are able to take too much damage.
Compare to any other team based FPS game and you will notice an immense
increase of fun in the gameplay simply because they have more realism which
makes for a SHITLOAD of tactics and strategy, which is damn fun. Practicing
to become better at playing a FPS game is ok but practicing to work better
together as a team and develop better tactics is damn fun.
Rade - Paragraphs are your friend... :p
And why am I being asinine? I don't think that anything needs to be done - my opinion... nothing more.
Actually I remember when I first started playing planetside during the beta, I
said the exact same things that people are saying here, that it felt
annoyingly sluggish etc. It took less then a week to get used to it and then
you realised how much better the gameplay was because of it. I understand
that people dont want to feel more sluggish but its not a nerf aimed
specifically at YOU, everyone will get the same problems, and everyone will
have to adapt and fight more carefully. Careful fighting as opposed to enter
the fray fighting is much more fun due to the tactical side. More ASGs would
also be needed, to make it as easy to travel as it was before, just by using
different means. One of the best aspects of PS is the travel, you always
have people who specialize more or less in vehicles which are _necesary_ to
transport you clan to and from battles. It adds alot to the feeling to travel
together to the combat in an APC and the people who have tried doing it in
OP wars for kicks can probably attest to that. And dont get me started on
doing Hot-Drops into a large battle from a fully loaded dropship :D
I agree and I played PlanetSide too.
PlanetSide would be recked if it had runsppeds like NC, cuz it is all about vehicles and troops working together.
Rade - Paragraphs are your friend... :p
And why am I being asinine? I don't think that anything needs to be done - my opinion... nothing more.
Im talking about your "get some skill" and "this is just about people who cant
play properly and comes here to whine" comments. Its pointless flaming which
is very far from the truth.´
**edit: just fyi people, I dont play planetside anymore, the game is lacking
severly in several areas, but the one thing they did do better is the combat
system and the OPs.
________________________________________________________________
Originally Posted by Rade
Actually I remember when I first started playing planetside during the beta, I
said the exact same things that people are saying here, that it felt
annoyingly sluggish etc. It took less then a week to get used to it and then
you realised how much better the gameplay was because of it. I understand
that people dont want to feel more sluggish but its not a nerf aimed
specifically at YOU, everyone will get the same problems, and everyone will
have to adapt and fight more carefully. Careful fighting as opposed to enter
the fray fighting is much more fun due to the tactical side. More ASGs would
also be needed, to make it as easy to travel as it was before, just by using
different means. One of the best aspects of PS is the travel, you always
have people who specialize more or less in vehicles which are _necesary_ to
transport you clan to and from battles. It adds alot to the feeling to travel
together to the combat in an APC and the people who have tried doing it in
OP wars for kicks can probably attest to that. And dont get me started on
doing Hot-Drops into a large battle from a fully loaded dropship.
________________________________________________________________
Yes well I agree with RADE.
RUNSPEEDS and JUMP hights are why I don't play Unreal Tournament and games like it anymore, .
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 18:36
I agree and I played PlanetSide too.
PlanetSide would be recked if it had runsppeds like NC, cuz it is all about vehicles and troops working together.
u mean the shitiest mmorpg ever ??
yea, and i played finding nemo
damn they should nerf the run speed on that fish too, kuz the way he runs away of the shark is unreallistic, not to mention he also speaks :wtf:
u mean the shitiest mmorpg ever ??
yea, and i played finding nemo
damn they should nerf the run speed on that fish too, kuz the way he runs away of the shark is unreallistic, not to mention he also speaks :wtf:
Well if it ruins a game for you, then YES. But your talking about a Movie. o_O
u mean the shitiest mmorpg ever ??
Yes, it was a shitty mmorpg, considering it was a mmorpg, but a mmofps
o_O . And as that it is very good, just not my taste. You just have to realise
what you get when you play this game, its definately not a mmorpg.
Runspeeds are OK.
Netcode is fubared.
When I see people running through walls, warping around and hovering in air, it's not their speed that makes it happen, it's the not-so-good-netcode which Neocron runs on. There must be improvement over this matter.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 18:40
Yes, it was a shitty mmorpg, considering it was a mmorpg, but a mmofps
o_O . And as that it is very good, just not my taste. You just have to realise
what you get when you play this game, its definately not a mmorpg.
by this u mean wich ?
u mean the shitiest mmorpg ever ??
Actualy the shitiest is mmorpg ever IMO is AO or EQ, But their problems are just that they SUCK and not just RUNSPEEDS. :) Ahahaha.
I agree people can run rediculously fast now and that it should be changed.
by this u mean wich ?
planetside, that was what you were talking about right? :wtf:
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 18:46
planetside, that was what you were talking about right? :wtf:
ok agreed
Actualy the shitiest is mmorpg ever IMO is AO or EQ, But their problems are just that they SUCK and not just RUNSPEEDS. Ahahaha
whatever u taking give me the name pls
Im talking about your "get some skill" and "this is just about people who cant play properly and comes here to whine" comments. Its pointless flaming which is very far from the truth.´
If you look back, I didn't actually say that originally. Only said that after I was told to fuck off. Fact still remains, that seems to have hit someones nerve...
Also though, this forum (not just this thread) is getting packed to the gills with whiney fucks. Not gonna mention names, but they know who they are.
And no, there is not anything wrong with runspeed as it is. You want high runspeed, you are gonna gimp yourself in other ways.
My PC can run faster then most in the city, and I must say i feel quite buff doing so, but alas, the only good vehicles are is for the fun of driving them and sitting in a tank shooting War Bots and hopping out and looting them when all is clear.
All these so cald new vehicles will be comming in the add on and no one will realy drive them, will they.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 18:51
And no, there is not anything wrong with runspeed as it is. You want high runspeed, you are gonna gimp yourself in other ways.
shhh Rince dont say that man.
looking at some posts in here, now they are goin to put all their points in athletics :lol:
it gives them lower ping and high FPS
am happy with it the way it is now :o
And no, there is not anything wrong with runspeed as it is. You want high runspeed, you are gonna gimp yourself in other ways.
If you dont think anything is wrong then why dont you discuss any of the
endless points made in this thread as to why runspeed should be reduced. All
these posts just saying "no" dont really bring this discussion anywhere except
to annoy the participants.
I don't know but I think a game that is good doesn't neccesary need to be realistic, how real is unreal tournament 2004? totally unrealistic yet absolute blast to play. If neocron was anywhere realistic with slow runspeeds, low health, and lose all items when you die, or deletion of character, but no...thanks to having genrep, futuristic technology could we have a better game, games are not meant to be realistic period. You could say making the game more fun, not more realistic. The fact is for science fiction I can go on and on with you e.g cybernetic implants, tanks are biologically programmed to be walking war machines e.g e.g but to me game balance has nothing to do with anything modern, realistic or sciencetific.
While I agree read my previous post of this thread, and that is why this idea will not work coupled with the target box thing, meaning lower runspeed will become very very easy aiming, unlike FPS you don't need a keen mouse aim to hit something in neocron u just need to click something once now and then. The stunning small player community and unbalanced faction distribution of course all but make it worse for team works and op fights.
However sucessfull u are ..sniping is crap because of the dmg output rifles generally are underpowered in damage, anyone with half decent mouse skills can target and snipe...and half brained idiot can take cover after about 2-3 shots and they are still alive. Especially with PPU monks around it makes sniping all but completely pointless,even if runspeed was decreased, it would not make op fights any more fun as long as PPU monkehs are around.
You notice something all those good games u mention? They all have no PPU class... in no good game does one class does so much ridiculous things and makes their team indestructible and crumbles the defence of another, all but one man...which game offers a class where u can godamn put a heal over time that actually outheals most weapons? none at all, if you still don't see what the problem is then....I have no more to say..
I agree with you that UT2004 is a blast to play. I love the speed and the action. In a persistant world where you dont have fast respawns and there is more consequence for dying I think most people would find dying as easy as you do in UT2004 very annoying. (I wouldn`t) So what do you do extend combat? You either slow the game down, runspeed and all or you make it harder to kill someone. The last option is in my mind the traditional mmorpg way to extend combat and what has been done with NC. What does it do in addition to extending combat? It dumbs the game down. With people being harder to kill there is no need for surprise attacks or ambush attacks because what you need to do is strike hard, concentrated and repeatedly. Any other way and your effort is engulfed in holy heals and whatnot.
What does UT2004 great? The pace, the action, great balance the changes between long range and short range combat. In UT2004 there is balance between runspeed and weapon damage. You dont head straight as an arrow towards your target, because it would mean your ass. Nah, you jump around, hiding behind cover, firing from range. Still there is a very good chance that you will get killed on your way to your target especially if you dont shoot back. If I was to make UT2004 more NCish I would have to increase armor to 400 and runspeed by a 100% and lower longrange weapon damage by 50%. That wouldnt make a very fun UT2004 would it?
My point, with the current runspeed and weapon damage/delivery methods it only favours short range combat. The whole system is built up to reach the situation where you are fighting close. It ignores the fun to be had with long range combat. The ppu is part of the problem as the ppu increases this effect alot. The runspeed and the damage you can make from longer ranges isnt balanced. One way to fix it is to decrease runspeed and extend combat that way. Much like Rade`s example and what I also would like to see. Or you lean to UT2004, keeping the speed, but making weapons hurt more and also more deaths. It isnt really that big a deal for me to be honest. More slow, tactical combat or UT2004. I like it both. NC is neither. What we got is close combat buff-acron.
Its not that I want NC to uber realistic or that I don`t like close combat, I love it, but for christ sake give long range the credit it deserves.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 18:55
If you dont think anything is wrong then why dont you discuss any of the
endless points made in this thread as to why runspeed should be reduced. All
these posts just saying "no" dont really bring this discussion anywhere except
to annoy the participants.
Rade
its a new way to post things
the Nidhogg style
There was a suggestion to put drug flash in stamina boosters as a way to help solve the problem. Well, it might, but only a little bit. I think that because having played this game for a year and a half now i only recently learned about stamina boosters. Noob! Twit!!! Yeah, probably. But the point is that this means i have run all over the damn place, feeling i was going pretty fast, and never really needed vehicles, and was able to do all the running i needed in Op wars and rarely was low stamina ever a problem - all without the use of boosters. So adding flashes to stamina boosters alone is not the answer. But it might be part of some overall solution. Dunno for sure.
Spook
if you slow everyone down imo it hands the game to the tanks, most Pes i fight rely on speed, everyone knows a tank is slow as shit with there gun out, all i can see is a lot of dead PEs from this kinda action, not to mention no defence monks :lol:
Thinking it over some more ... if KK added quite literally four or more times as many zones, keeping the current number of ops as they are now ... that would probably force people to start using APCs (and other vehicles) to head out on raids. Because the Ops would be so much farther apart and the travel time for running would be too friggen long. And boring. So vehicles would start being more generally useful. This has the advantage that we'd have our current run speed, so that zipping around in zone during an Op fight would be the same, and localized hunting across a couple of zones would also feel just the same and be fine - although getting to distant regions to even start hunting would probably require a vehicle. This could work i think. I might hate the sudden reliance on vehicles to go places i could just run to before, but it probably would indeed be effective in balancing travel, in making vehicles worthwhile. Except ... i rather doubt KK will go to the effort and expense to create all those other zones and restructure a new map.
The logical alternative, to create effectively the same thing, is to scale down running. Which most people wont like. Because, quite frankly, the worst thing a game company can do to its players is nerf a capability that most of them use a lot and think is great and will be unhappy about if it gets changed. Our run speed, for instance. So i understand why people are objecting to the idea of slowing them down.
That seems to leave only one other solution: forget about it. Let vehicles be mostly useless. People who have fun driving around will continue to do so. The rest of us will simply ignore vehicles just as before. I suspect this is what will happen ... meaning nothing at all will happen, nothing will change. And i guess thats okay with me, since i dont have very strong feelings about making vehicles more useful ala PlanetSide. Its a shame they arent, but so what.
Spook
If you dont think anything is wrong then why dont you discuss any of the
endless points made in this thread as to why runspeed should be reduced. All
these posts just saying "no" dont really bring this discussion anywhere except
to annoy the participants.
Sorry Rade - where does it state that I have to get tied up in endless posts about why it should or should not be reduced? I say no, I have no real reasons, I just don't think it needs to be reduced.
If my saying 'no' annoys peeps... guess what !!! Tough. :rolleyes: It is called an opinion - look it up sometime.
If you dont have any real reasons then maybe you should think a little about
it so you understand yourself why you want it that way or not, if you want
to contribute to the thread that is. If you dont want to then dont enter the
discussion at all. As to where, a place called common sense. That I have to
tell you this actually surprises me since Ive seen you there many times before.
But the question is "Are you sick of the ridiculous runspeed". Sorry Rade, but he's in the right in my opinion, he is answering "no, I'm not" because he has no gripe with the way it is at the moment, he hasn't had any problems with it and isn't necessarily saying "DON'T CHANGE IT" rather he is just saying "I like it the way it is.
Steve
I see - so in order for me to say "no", I must give a reason? Get real.
Since when has there been a rule saying that I MUST give reasons for what I do or don't agree with. Please only post an answer to this if you can show me where ! Otherwise, don't waste your time...
EDIT----------------
Thx Steve... At least some folks can see sense.
There was a suggestion to put drug flash in stamina boosters as a way to help solve the problem. Well, it might, but only a little bit. I think that because having played this game for a year and a half now i only recently learned about stamina boosters. ... Dunno for sure.
Spook
i dont like the drug flash thing on STA booster because there is only a small step to PSI booster with flash. how about raising the STA drain while running a LITTLE and the regain time of STA. after running a zone on full speed you should be down to allmost '0'.
all u need to do atm is get on you knees and use an STA and be back on the road in less them 10 sec .
Personally, I like the combat system as it is and wish they would do something about PPUs
larger zones and outposts would be nice to have for sure.
if fortress' were given ASG's it would also be great and you would definetly see more vehicles in combat which I think is what reakktor is trying to do considering they are adding a line of flying vehicles into the game.
the only thing that kills me in battle is the shitty frame rates where with the expansion and my computer power will hopefully be fixed.
Devils Grace
05-04-04, 20:26
all u need to do atm is get on you knees and use an STA and be back on the road in less them 10 sec .
no if u use a stamina booster the efect is imidiate and u dont need to kneel at all
and dont ask me for a reason for saying this kuz U AINT GET ANY :p
no if u use a stamina booster the efect is imidiate and u dont need to kneel at all
...
even worse :) i thought they change that like the psi boosters ...
NERF NERF NERF ;)
Tanks have to pop enough stam boosters in combat as it is, you need about one every CS clip if you keep moving, and if you're running you can't empty a SpeedGun clip without popping a stam. If they're going to be nerfed like psi boosters or given a drugflash then stamina drain on all weapons should be removed.
Tanks have to pop enough stam boosters in combat as it is, you need about one every CS clip if you keep moving, and if you're running you can't empty a SpeedGun clip without popping a stam. If they're going to be nerfed like psi boosters or given a drugflash then stamina drain on all weapons should be removed.
Scikar ... do you see the ironic humor in what you said?
By popping stamina boosters all the time you totally avoid the problems arising from running out of stamina ... rendering the negative effects of stamina loss totally meaningless because you avoid experiencing them. And you object to suggestions that risk depleting it. For all intents and purposes, KK could remove stamina from the game entirely and it wouldnt mean much to you, except save you some cash and the hassle of popping pills.
No fault of yours in any way - if i was playing your character i would do the same thing - KK did it too themselves by putting stamina boosters in the game to start with, and allowing them to be eaten as often as needed without penalties. They made stamina loss meaningless.
That is sort of analogous to the vehicle issue. They put all those neat rides in the game, but made them pretty useless, by letting people run so fast. And people object to the idea of slowing down run, just as there are now objections to depleting stamina faster. Its funny, in an ironic kind of way - no one wants to have the changes made that would help resolve the underlying problems.
KK seems to be very good at shooting themselves in the foot.
Spook
actually rince I was going to answer with something going in the same
direction as our previous exchange such as "does the fact theres no rules
about looking before you cross a road mean you should never do it?" but well,
then I realised there are plenty of rules for argumentation, such as this:
http://www.msu.org/critreas/content_cra/arg-overview.html
One of the basic rules of argumentation is to contribute something with every
reply. Tbh I dont know if thats in the link I just posted because I just
grabbed the first "ground rules for argumentation" hit I got on google, but Im
sure you get the point.
Heh, megacorp actually this part is what I found most ironic:
if you're running you can't empty a SpeedGun clip without popping a stam.
Running and firing a bigass shouldermounted cannon.... right.... I wouldnt
dream of firing a pistol on the run irl, lets not even talk about rifles...
or "cannons".
Bleah, maybe I should just give up on trying to make this game better and
wait until some other developer gives us a better game.
Scikar ... do you see the ironic humor in what you said?
By popping stamina boosters all the time you totally avoid the problems arising from running out of stamina ... rendering the negative effects of stamina loss totally meaningless because you avoid experiencing them. And you object to suggestions that risk depleting it. For all intents and purposes, KK could remove stamina from the game entirely and it wouldnt mean much to you, except save you some cash and the hassle of popping pills.
No fault of yours in any way - if i was playing your character i would do the same thing - KK did it too themselves by putting stamina boosters in the game to start with, and allowing them to be eaten as often as needed without penalties. They made stamina loss meaningless.
That is sort of analogous to the vehicle issue. They put all those neat rides in the game, but made them pretty useless, by letting people run so fast. And people object to the idea of slowing down run, just as there are now objections to depleting stamina faster. Its funny, in an ironic kind of way - no one wants to have the changes made that would help resolve the underlying problems.
KK seems to be very good at shooting themselves in the foot.
Spook
Well put it this way, if stamina boosters weren't in the game, every tank would have petitioned to get stamina drain removed from heavy weapons, full stop. We can't afford to get endurance and it doesn't help anyway, you lose 10 stamina every burst, plus running on top of that. 200 stamina gone in about 2 clips. Liberator PEs too, everyone would be using ray weapons even more than they do now.
But yeah I get your point. Another example being they do everything they can to nerf hybrids and then add the apu kami chip without a -ppu on it.
And the resolution is the same like every other idea on the forums. I've explained over and over how beneficial removing the safeslot 1 and making belts all unlocked would be, but nobody listens.
EDIT: @Rade: The comparison was to, for example, raypistols, fusion pistols, plasma pistols, they have virtually no stamina loss. Compared to RL, yes, they're all fucked up, but I was referring to game balance than realism.
Bleah, maybe I should just give up on trying to make this game better and wait until some other developer gives us a better game.
Gives us something to do while waiting for bdoy, or a better game. ;)
Spook
Mr Friendly
05-04-04, 21:47
sounds to me like the starter of this thread doesnt like the runspeed cuz he cant hit the guys @_@
u tihnk this is fast? try Ut:2004 ;)
sounds to me like the starter of this thread doesnt like the runspeed cuz he cant hit the guys @_@
u tihnk this is fast? try Ut:2004 ;)
Try reading the thread.
sounds to me like the starter of this thread doesnt like the runspeed cuz he cant hit the guys @_@...
that isnt funny any more since page 5 or 6 of this thread ;)
There should be no runspeed at all! Atleast a "skill" for it.. Everyone should be a certain speed depend on the class.. Tanks should run faster than any PEs, PSI.. Spy should run faster than every other class, PSI should be slowest and PEs third slow.. :) In return for loosing speed, implants or "other" types of armor should increase the character run speed.. Atleast that is my opinion.. ^.^
Edit: Or everything just run the same and the only that that makes them go faster dpends on armor and implants.. I dont know! :(
I voted no... they would have to do a complete overhaul of the combat system and would require a huge balancing act that would take them a long ass time to recover from... if they ever did.
First off for OP wars they would have to add cover and trenches since most of the OPs don't have those, yea they have a tree or two and some OPs have hills around them but in order to rush the place without being picked off you would need to have cover or have something you can sit down and use as cover... which given the current graphics engine is not viable, try turning on Vegatation and watch your frame rate.
I think they should take what they have now and build upon it, it would be much easier than starting from scratch (which is what you are asking them to do)... also quit comparing this to real life for crissake, if you want real life go join the army or something... I gotta admit I got out of the Army around 1995 but the last time I was in they didn't have Power Armor, Shoulder mounted plasma cannons, laser rifles, ray guns, Gene Replicators etc. etc. etc. just kind of silly trying to compare this to real life.
I'm a Tank, I've been playing with a reduced run speed for a year, let's see how everyone else will feel if this happens. :p
PS: You won't like it. :D
Devils Grace
06-04-04, 11:02
There should be no runspeed at all! Atleast a "skill" for it.. Everyone should be a certain speed depend on the class.. Tanks should run faster than any PEs, PSI.. Spy should run faster than every other class, PSI should be slowest and PEs third slow.. :) In return for loosing speed, implants or "other" types of armor should increase the character run speed.. Atleast that is my opinion.. ^.^
Edit: Or everything just run the same and the only that that makes them go faster dpends on armor and implants.. I dont know! :(
it suprises me that a old player like ur self, doesnt know that there is a runspeed skill, or better saying a combination of 2 skills regarding the weapon that u have that gives u the runspeed
and mmm no to the rest of ur idea
Garg [RogueNET]
06-04-04, 11:14
i've LoMed some of my resists just so i can run faster... if they decrease speed my Pistolspy is completely useless... i have no chance to avoid getting shot due to the thing im slow as heck!!
']i've LoMed some of my resists just so i can run faster... if they decrease speed my Pistolspy is completely useless... i have no chance to avoid getting shot due to the thing im slow as heck!!yup pistol spies rely on there fast movement, reduce that and theres no way they would be able to take on a tank
sounds to me like the starter of this thread doesnt like the runspeed cuz he cant hit the guys @_@
u tihnk this is fast? try Ut:2004 ;)
He doesnt like the runspeed because it makes the game seem stupidly small and leaves no form of tactics or overall strategy to op wars and makes vehicles completely useless because its faster to run other then taxiing noobs to the mb.
Maybe you should read more then title before you spam?
And it has been said that aiming would have to be slowed or made harder because of the reduced runspeed yet all people seem to do is spam he wants it reduced because he cant hit anything which wasnt amusing the first time and is getting more nibbish by the post
I feel special :) none of my characters ever need stamina boosters ^_^
run speed is fine in my opinion, just the shitty frame rate makes it hard to actually aim.
I feel special :) none of my characters ever need stamina boosters ^_^
run speed is fine in my opinion, just the shitty frame rate makes it hard to actually aim.
even your tank o_O
Devils Grace
06-04-04, 13:09
He doesnt like the runspeed because it makes the game seem stupidly small and leaves no form of tactics or overall strategy to op wars
wtf o_O
this is why in all servers there is one or 2 clans that rule the rest
some say this kind of shit and then cry to have op's given to them
others actually think before they act and they make a clan good, well prepared, and use tactics and strategy in op wars
now i understand
Clownst0pper
06-04-04, 13:10
wtf o_O
this is why in all servers there is one or 2 clans that rule the rest
some say this kind of shit and then cry to have op's given to them
others actually think before they act and they make a clan good, well prepared, and use tactics and strategy in op wars
now i understand
Agree with what devils said, but even those who are incharge of a clan arent best in PVP.
and if anyone says they cant aim at u because of ur run speed, then they suck big time.
wtf o_O
this is why in all servers there is one or 2 clans that rule the rest
some say this kind of shit and then cry to have op's given to them
others actually think before they act and they make a clan good, well prepared, and use tactics and strategy in op wars
now i understand
Tactics and startegy in this game are limited to charging in from more then one direction,keeping tabs on where your clanmates are and concentrating fire on one target to bring them down and keeping close to your ppus for heals buffs etc and maybe a droner or sniper around to do finishing shots and harry ppus but thats about it for.
Oh and theres stealth turreting tl3 healing and other such "tactics".
And you dont know anything about why clans hold most of servers if you think its through tactics and I know its not tactics in the cartel its the fact that they managed to get most of the best saturn pvpers in one clan.
On uranus and pluto its pure zerg and on jupiter its probably vaguely like saturn but dont know from experience.
Strategy has more to it then lets all shoot this dude then this dued until all but the ppus are dead or if your outnumbered dropping turrets and stuns to make up for lack of numbers or parashocking dbing and tl3 healing a ppu to take him down.
Devils Grace
06-04-04, 13:55
Tactics and startegy in this game are limited to charging in from more then one direction,keeping tabs on where your clanmates are and concentrating fire on one target to bring them down and keeping close to your ppus for heals buffs etc and maybe a droner or sniper around to do finishing shots and harry ppus but thats about it for.
Oh and theres stealth turreting tl3 healing and other such "tactics".
And you dont know anything about why clans hold most of servers if you think its through tactics and I know its not tactics in the cartel its the fact that they managed to get most of the best saturn pvpers in one clan.
On uranus and pluto its pure zerg and on jupiter its probably vaguely like saturn but dont know from experience.
Strategy has more to it then lets all shoot this dude then this dued until all but the ppus are dead or if your outnumbered dropping turrets and stuns to make up for lack of numbers or parashocking dbing and tl3 healing a ppu to take him down.
LOL dude im not goin to even bother to reply to u about this issue
not only its off topic, but also u are diging ur own hole
"hands over a shovel" (typo?)
LOL dude im not goin to even bother to reply to u about this issue
not only its off topic, but also u are diging ur own hole
"hands over a shovel" (typo?)
You're not going to reply because there's nothing you can say. He's right. You can't say Cartel wins by using unique and inventive strategies. Cheap tactics yes, but everyone uses them. It is simply the fact that you have more american players and more of the better players. Real organisation, teamwork, strategy and tactics requires leadership, and that is something Cartel certainly does not have, apart from ZoneseeK telling you all which OP to go to.
*sigh*
[ edited ]
The poll options allowed you to vote no, why did you feel the need to reply with "no" without any reasons?
I play ut2004, BF:1942, planetside, i'm fairly ok at PVP, wtf has that to do with this thread, when I NEVER mentioned not being able to hit people in pvp?
Considering my main char is a ppu, WTF?
@Rade, thanks for the reasoned, balanced posts by you, to the hordes of flaming muppets.
[ edited ]
Devils Grace
06-04-04, 16:32
You're not going to reply because there's nothing you can say. He's right. You can't say Cartel wins by using unique and inventive strategies. Cheap tactics yes, but everyone uses them. It is simply the fact that you have more american players and more of the better players. Real organisation, teamwork, strategy and tactics requires leadership, and that is something Cartel certainly does not have, apart from ZoneseeK telling you all which OP to go to.
scikar i didnt know u liked to look like a fool but u did.
ur last coment in here, besides the usuall crap u post, shows that u have a head only to put a hat on top of it.
THIS GAME HAS TACTICS, GOOD ONES, CHEAP ONES, LAME ONES
THIS GAME AS STRATEGY, GOOD ONE, CHEAP ONE, LAME ONE
not goin to refer to cartel like u do, kuz i cant "looks at the gods"
what i can tell u is, while u think like that, cartel will prevail, no matter what excuses u may find, or try to find, to show that YOU dont have and never will have anything of the stated above by ur self.
scikar i didnt know u liked to look like a fool but u did.
ur last coment in here, besides the usuall crap u post, shows that u have a head only to put a hat on top of it.
THIS GAME HAS TACTICS, GOOD ONES, CHEAP ONES, LAME ONES
THIS GAME AS STRATEGY, GOOD ONE, CHEAP ONE, LAME ONE
not goin to refer to cartel like u do, kuz i cant "looks at the gods"
what i can tell u is, while u think like that, cartel will prevail, no matter what excuses u may find, or try to find, to show that YOU dont have and never will have anything of the stated above by ur self.
That's nice. Would you like to reply to my post now?
Zone admits himself he doesn't tell anyone what to do, he just tells you all where to go. He also at least understands that the primary advantage Cartel has is that most of the skilled North American players on the server are in Cartel. That's why you lose OPs during European time and get them back at American time, or at least did until we stopped bothering taking them to start with.
I love how people like you, KimmyG, and Lemons all act like you use some unique strategy and it's clever thinking that wins you the fights. The simple fact is, you have a bunch of excellent players who win you the OPs at American time, and you have a bunch of leechers who ride on the back of their success. And I've already learnt from experience which category you are in.
Devils Grace
06-04-04, 18:01
That's nice. Would you like to reply to my post now?
Zone admits himself he doesn't tell anyone what to do, he just tells you all where to go. He also at least understands that the primary advantage Cartel has is that most of the skilled North American players on the server are in Cartel. That's why you lose OPs during European time and get them back at American time, or at least did until we stopped bothering taking them to start with.
I love how people like you, KimmyG, and Lemons all act like you use some unique strategy and it's clever thinking that wins you the fights. The simple fact is, you have a bunch of excellent players who win you the OPs at American time, and you have a bunch of leechers who ride on the back of their success. And I've already learnt from experience which category you are in.
zone admits that he doesnt make ppl play this game like a job
we dont loose op's during EUro time
we loose op's during EURO kid time AKA after lunch when u all leave school after beein beated up by some school buly and decide to go in game and act like a man, kuz when ppl leave their jobs and go in game to have a little fun (around 6 p.m EUro time) u dont stand a fucking chance agaisnt us, as u r all online and u fucking lost anyway with ur carabear conection (ZERG 6 X TIMES)
point is I know who u really are or like i think u are (a wanabee) kuz by luck we didnt share the same clans and i didnt had the displeasure to know who for a fact, but there is some ppl that shared game moments with ur person and i heard what they have said
concerning the fact about what u think Cartel does or doesnt, u should just shut the hell up kuz ur basicly saying that u got onwed everyday by a clan that has no skill, startegy or tactics, showing that u are in fact a bad player who was never big hot shot in ND, just (like i said a wanabee) and a true leecher.
to end i love this remark
North American players on the server are in Cartel. That's why you lose OPs during European time
yes u ninja when no one is online and u loose them when everyone is
gg no re
Just ignore him sci, no one cares anyway.
Devils Grace
06-04-04, 19:49
:rolleyes:
Load_HeavyLoad
06-04-04, 19:55
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :eek:
Devils Grace
06-04-04, 20:01
:confused:
:mad:
8|
:eek:
:angel:
"These aren't the spammers you're looking for."
-Obi Wan Kenjuten talking with the moderators
On Topic: Uh...hm. I'm kinda divided. But maybe the runspeed should be reduced. I have relatively low runspeed (0agl/20ath) on another char and he runs quite well.
Load_HeavyLoad
06-04-04, 20:07
i would post more smilies but it would be spam.....
Devils Grace
06-04-04, 20:08
i would post more smilies but it would be spam.....
yep :)
i am happy with the current situation!
PvP is _BALANCED_
Devils Grace
06-04-04, 20:13
i am happy with the current situation!
PvP is _BALANCED_
u forgot the :confused: :cool: :lol: ;) :) 8| :rolleyes: :p :angel: :eek: :D
:lol:
Congratulations to Devils Grace & Co. for the lovely Cartel drama that has alot in common with the thread's topic and this picture below.
http://www.imageshack.us/img2/3446/WRAP_STICKMEAT_START1.jpg
WELL DONE
Hehe I love this:
we dont loose op's during EUro time we loose op's during EURO kid time AKA after lunch when u all leave school after beein beated up by some school buly and decide to go in game and act like a man, kuz when ppl leave their jobs and go in game to have a little fun
Funny, usually when I log on, you're already there. Do you have a job?
point is I know who u really are or like i think u are (a wanabee) kuz by luck we didnt share the same clans and i didnt had the displeasure to know who for a fact, but there is some ppl that shared game moments with ur person and i heard what they have said
Oh and nobody in Cartel would ever lie about someone they don't like, right?
concerning the fact about what u think Cartel does or doesnt, u should just shut the hell up kuz ur basicly saying that u got onwed everyday by a clan that has no skill, startegy or tactics, showing that u are in fact a bad player who was never big hot shot in ND, just (like i said a wanabee) and a true leecher.
I didn't lead ND, but I was there for every fight I could, and I did my job. Nobody could ask for anything more. I was rank 8, and had the respect of most of the ex-NAT members.
Considering the number of times now that I have killed you personally at OP wars, including at one point at Emmerson when I had PPU shields but no heal, with turrets shooting me, and you had PPU shields plus PPU heals, surrounded by 3 PPUs, yet you still died, I don't have to worry one little bit about your idea of skill. By your own admission, you never leave a safe zone without a PPU, whereas I will happily fight all by myself. I have played every class and can fight reasonably well with all of them, and best on my tank. You play nothing but monks, and frankly that says everything there is to be said.
yes u ninja when no one is online and u loose them when everyone is
gg no re
More like, we take them when the fight is even, then we fight wave after wave after wave because you all die and keep coming back until eventually all the European players have logged off and you have the only decent players left.
Have you ever won a duel? Wait actually, have you ever fought a duel at all? A 1v1? A fight in Pepper Park? It's funny really, you hide behind PPUs at OP wars, you hide behind CopBots in Plaza 2, and from your safe little hole you send out your spam and your flames and your bullshit. Yet you have no skill or respect whatsoever to back it up. The best part is, you think I'm wound up. I'm laughing.
No more flames on this thread. It's had far too many as it is.
N
/edit - In fact...
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